IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  9. [00:53:34] <mfbot> [[hlisting-challenges]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-challenges&diff=0&oldid=4889 * Rohit * (-12) Structured CFP -
  10. [00:55:31] * limbo_ is now known as limbo_sm3rt
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  12. [01:15:45] <mfbot> [[hlisting-challenges]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-challenges&diff=0&oldid=4890 * Rohit * (+9) Minimal Classified Ad -
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  27. [02:02:12] * tantek sets mode +o TantekC
  28. [02:02:16] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
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  41. [02:31:52] <rohit> hi mark --
  42. [02:32:25] <rohit> our javascript mf parser bookmarklet just passed 7000 lines :) :( !
  43. [02:32:33] <rohit> how's yours, from what I hear?
  44. [02:50:32] <dmose> rohit: that's a big bookmarklet!
  45. [02:50:47] <dmose> what does it do once parsed, offer to save the item in the corresponding macro-format?
  46. [03:04:27] <rohit> almost
  47. [03:05:01] <rohit> it's called miffy, a microformats editor/inspector that finds what's on the page and extracts it to a search engine at tpd.angstro.net:19988.
  48. [03:05:58] <rohit> if you want, you can click on search, (get no results), drag out hte bookmarklet, then go back to the home page and click on the logo to see the credits -- running miffy then will find the rel-license and hCard.
  49. [03:06:28] <rohit> The mysterious part is that clicking on the Å logo in the miffy window will repost the found bits to angstro for search
  50. [03:06:42] <rohit> the search also supports xquery, but that's another story...
  51. [03:07:42] <dmose> interesting, i'll check that out
  52. [03:39:55] * limbo_sm3rt is now known as limbo_afk
  53. [04:59:26] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  54. [04:59:26] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  55. [05:20:24] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@h-68-164-93-45.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  56. [05:20:25] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & working at Technorati & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & also in every time zone ever created, for KevinMarks is everpresent & the Podfather & the spidermeist
  57. [05:24:10] * markp (n=markp@adsl-221-119-220.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  58. [05:30:02] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("reboot")
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  60. [05:34:23] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  61. [05:34:23] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  67. [06:26:05] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & working at Technorati & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & also in every time zone ever created, for KevinMarks is everpresent & the Podfather & the spidermeist
  68. [06:28:16] * TantekC (n=Tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  69. [06:47:06] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  70. [06:47:06] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  71. [07:45:57] * karlUshi (n=karl@dhcp-246-59.mag.keio.ac.jp) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  72. [07:57:17] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("biab -reboot again")
  73. [08:00:51] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  74. [08:00:51] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  75. [08:08:13] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@h-68-164-93-45.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  76. [08:08:13] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & working at Technorati & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & also in every time zone ever created, for KevinMarks is everpresent & the Podfather & the spidermeist
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  80. [09:08:39] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  81. [09:08:39] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  82. [09:17:10] * karlUshi (n=karl@sd1u209254.ocv.ne.jp) has joined #microformats
  83. [09:17:10] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
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  88. [10:24:23] * kingryan|away is now known as kingryan
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  93. [10:45:12] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
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  96. [11:47:29] <trovster> Is there are link to a map in vcards?
  97. [11:48:42] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) has joined #microformats
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  99. [12:15:59] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  102. [12:24:13] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  103. [12:24:13] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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  106. [13:09:18] <bkdelong> Morning
  107. [13:10:21] <markmansour> evening
  108. [13:10:48] <bkdelong> that too. ;)
  109. [13:11:01] <bkdelong> [Insert your time-of-day greeting here]
  110. [13:11:15] <markmansour> hehe.. it was just sitting there... I had to take it
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  115. [13:37:24] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  116. [13:40:44] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
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  124. [14:38:34] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  136. [16:14:38] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  137. [16:20:39] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  138. [16:20:39] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  139. [16:20:39] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  140. [16:37:02] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  141. [16:42:45] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  142. [16:42:45] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  143. [16:43:13] <trovster> I've put a hcard into our sites promoting badge :d
  144. [16:58:44] <TantekC> trovster - url?
  145. [16:59:16] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4891 * Trovster * (+177) New Examples -
  146. [17:00:44] <bewest|work> I convinced churchzip.com to use hcard in it's gmap interface
  147. [17:00:47] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4892 * Trovster * (+91) New Examples -
  148. [17:01:24] <bewest|work> eventually there'll be a refactor in the traditional interface, in which mf's will be used
  149. [17:01:41] <trovster> TantekC: Well, they're the public viewable microformats, at the moment.
  150. [17:02:19] <trovster> But the promote page - http://www.multipack.co.uk/promote/ - has a vcard for the badge.
  151. [17:08:24] <TantekC> ah, very cool
  152. [17:08:49] <TantekC> nice overylaying of the hCard and hCalendar event on the home page: http://www.multipack.co.uk/
  153. [17:09:01] <Atamido> Nice spam title, "Former President Bill Klinton uses Voagra!"
  154. [17:09:12] <Atamido> Lets see, how to mark that up...
  155. [17:09:34] <trovster> TantekC: I think you suggested that hCard/hCalender event overlap1
  156. [17:11:25] <trovster> The site also has rel="home" on the header.
  157. [17:13:29] * markp (n=markp@adsl-221-119-220.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  158. [17:18:41] <pnhChris> is there any way to designate the page authors vcard besides the address element?
  159. [17:18:49] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4893 * Ragdoll * (+237) New Examples -
  160. [17:19:55] <bkdelong> Do we have any examples of using a single hcard property in a blog post? ie if I want to just point out that a name is a name ....? do I just do <span class="fn"></span> ? Or do I need to create a div with the vcard in there?
  161. [17:23:55] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4894 * Ragdoll * (+260) Examples -
  162. [17:24:21] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4895 * Ragdoll * (-260) Examples -
  163. [17:24:52] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4896 * Ragdoll * (+260) New Examples -
  164. [17:27:26] <trovster> bkdelong: AFAIK, vcard needs to be defined. But if it's blog post, add it to the container
  165. [17:27:47] <bkdelong> hrm...ok Here's the example:
  166. [17:28:21] <bkdelong> <p class="vcard">I think this Post article by <span class="n"><span class="given-name">Dan</span> <span class="family-name">Froomkin</span></span> sums up a lot of the issues right now. You have <span class="n"><span class="given-name">Lewis</span> <span class="nickname">Scooter</span> <span class="family-name">Libby</span></span> - <span class="role">Cheney's ex-<span class="title">Chief of Staff</span></span> testifying that
  167. [17:28:51] <bkdelong> I mean, is it even appropriate for me to be marking up other people's names with vcard?
  168. [17:29:31] <trovster> Yes, it's appropriate!
  169. [17:29:50] <bkdelong> Just checking. ;)
  170. [17:30:17] <bkdelong> oops. Plame should be family-name
  171. [17:32:19] <bkdelong> any thoughts on properly marking up Cheney's ex-Chief of Staff? I'm not sure if I should include the "ex" in there as that isn't an official title. Not to mention that Cheney is a family-name: <span class="role">Cheney's ex-<span class="title">Chief of Staff</span></span>
  172. [17:32:29] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  173. [17:32:29] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  174. [17:36:16] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  175. [17:36:16] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  176. [17:36:19] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  177. [17:36:36] * tantek sets mode +o TantekC
  178. [17:36:41] <bkdelong> Hey tantek.
  179. [17:36:43] * tantek sets mode +o rohit
  180. [17:36:46] <tantek> hey bk
  181. [17:37:46] <bkdelong> Actually, you know trovster, I think I have to add a vcard class before every case of a different name.
  182. [17:38:03] <trovster> Yes, you do.
  183. [17:38:12] <bkdelong> messy.
  184. [17:38:15] <trovster> I have it on here -> http://www.multipack.co.uk/members/
  185. [17:39:51] <bkdelong> gotcha ok.
  186. [17:43:35] <bkdelong> My god....what a nasty set of nested HTML. :)
  187. [17:43:37] <bkdelong> <p>I think <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2006/02/10/BL2006021000760.html">this Post article</a> by <span class="vcard"><span class="n"><span class="given-name">Dan</span> <span class="family-name">Froomkin</span></span></span> sums up a lot of the issues right now. You have <span class="vcard"><span class="n"><span class="given-name">Lewis</span> "<span class="nickname">Scooter</span>" <span class=
  188. [17:45:08] <tantek> bk, you can use the fn/n shortcut in those
  189. [17:45:25] <bkdelong> ?
  190. [17:45:30] <tantek> hmm... and actually, they are missing the "fn" so they are invalid
  191. [17:45:49] <bkdelong> Wait....I thought n was appropriate
  192. [17:46:00] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Implied_.22N.22_Optimization
  193. [17:46:23] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-example1-steps#hCard_example_iteration_2:_element_conservation
  194. [17:47:12] <bkdelong> ah ok...so "fn n"
  195. [17:47:31] <tantek> right, that will make it valid
  196. [17:47:48] <bkdelong> What about the title/role for Libby?
  197. [17:48:01] <tantek> but in this case, since all they have is given and family names, you can use the fn shortcut
  198. [17:48:25] <tantek> oh right, with the nickname in the middle like that, you need the full "n" markup
  199. [17:48:35] * tantek didn't see the end of the markup
  200. [17:48:49] <tantek> where is the title/role for Libby?
  201. [17:48:49] <bkdelong> ;)
  202. [17:49:08] <tantek> your markup got clipped at: ...Scooter</span>" <span class=
  203. [17:49:14] <bkdelong> <span class="vcard"><span class="n"><span class="given-name">Lewis</span> "<span class="nickname">Scooter</span>" <span class="family-name">Libby</span></span> - <span class="role"><span class="vcard"><span class="n"><span class="family-name">Cheney</span></span></span>'s ex-<span class="title">Chief of Staff</span></span></span>
  204. [17:49:42] <bkdelong> I dont think I can markup Cheney's last name. Not enough contextuality to mark it as a vcard
  205. [17:50:03] <bkdelong> Unless I simply add his first name. Damn my laziness!
  206. [17:50:09] <tantek> right - it's an adjective there, not a noun
  207. [17:50:53] <bkdelong> So it is assumed with fn that if there are just two words, they're given-name and family-name.....
  208. [17:51:39] <TantekC> right, that's the shortcut
  209. [17:51:57] <bkdelong> Can a title be nested in a role?
  210. [17:51:58] <TantekC> there is another proposed fn shortcut - if there is only one word, it is a nickname
  211. [17:52:04] <TantekC> yes
  212. [17:52:10] <TantekC> in general, anything can be nested in anything
  213. [17:53:07] <bkdelong> So what if I said VP Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff? Would that warrant vcard fn/titleing Cheney?
  214. [17:55:13] <qid> I think when the markup:visible content ratio hits 20:1 or whatever that sample has, it's getting a tad ridiculous
  215. [17:55:21] <tantek> you certainly could
  216. [17:55:44] <tantek> essentially, hCard provides the closest thing to a <person> element in (X)HTML
  217. [17:55:53] <tantek> that's the way to think of it
  218. [17:56:31] <qid> I can't imagine any normal human being putting that many span tags in
  219. [17:56:47] <pnhChris> doesn't have to bu human
  220. [17:56:50] <bkdelong> Eventually it could be automated.
  221. [17:57:13] <tantek> qid, ideally you would just have a little "person" button (just like WYSIWYG UIs have "link') buttons, that could either insert the markup for you, or give you a drop down list of people to choose from
  222. [17:57:29] <bkdelong> Or I could cut and paste Dan Froomkin's name from the WashPost byline and my hCard plugin can pull the revant markup from WashPost, (if they used it), and auto-include it in my document.
  223. [17:57:37] <tantek> yes
  224. [17:58:02] <bkdelong> But yes, it's ridiculous to a degree...but we have to start somewhere.
  225. [17:58:04] <tantek> or if you started typing a person's name in your address book, the editor could auto-complete a minimal hCard (name and URL)
  226. [17:58:16] <tantek> *from* your address book
  227. [17:58:24] <bkdelong> Right. or a dynamic wikipedia-like lookup
  228. [17:58:34] <bkdelong> similar to what Trillian uses
  229. [17:58:36] <tantek> right, for names in general
  230. [17:59:18] <tantek> and of course, this auto-complete could also benefit from all the people's names that your browser has seen while parsing hCards during your browsing
  231. [17:59:30] <tantek> so they wouldn't even have to be in your address book
  232. [17:59:46] <pnhChris> .. or a more contained case... a CMS that knows previous names that have been entered
  233. [17:59:56] <bkdelong> right
  234. [18:00:09] <bkdelong> a dynamic hCard Dreamweaver extension
  235. [18:01:09] <tantek> yes
  236. [18:02:31] <trovster> I put my hCards through a site to give me the vCards, and it only gave me the first one on the page.
  237. [18:03:03] <tantek> hmm... could be a markup problem. which URL?
  238. [18:03:13] <trovster> That members one
  239. [18:04:43] <bkdelong> what is the URL for the site to "get" the vCards?
  240. [18:05:15] <trovster> http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/get-vcard.php?uri=http://www.multipack.co.uk/members/
  241. [18:08:53] <tantek> hmm.... I'm not seeing *any*
  242. [18:09:27] <tantek> what happens when you remove the "fli" from "fli vcard"?
  243. [18:09:45] <tantek> also, I noticed the "org fn" outside any hCards for "Multipack"
  244. [18:10:09] <trovster> Yes, they're whereever Multipack is mentioned.
  245. [18:10:26] <trovster> That's not the issue. And it's valid HTML too. They appear using Tails.
  246. [18:13:59] <tantek> right, that should be fine
  247. [18:14:14] <tantek> did you try removing "fli" from Simon's hCard?
  248. [18:15:10] <trovster> No need. When running that script posted above, Simon's vCard appears.
  249. [18:15:34] <trovster> All I'm saying is, that that script only gives the vCard of the first hCard it finds.
  250. [18:19:40] <trovster> Anyhoo. Gotta go home. Be back in 15m
  251. [18:19:43] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  252. [18:21:43] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@adsl-71-132-1-222.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  253. [18:21:44] * tantek asks Brian Suda to take a look at what X2V is doing with trovster's hCards.
  254. [18:21:56] <bkdelong> cool
  255. [18:22:06] <bkdelong> Does jibot take messages for people?
  256. [18:28:30] <TantekC> not AFAIK
  257. [18:29:01] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  258. [18:29:01] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  259. [18:29:53] <pnhChris> no need to save a message i guess :P
  260. [18:30:12] <bkdelong> actually, I meant for trovster. ;)
  261. [18:34:45] <tantek> brian, you had trouble reproducing trovster's problem?
  262. [18:35:43] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  263. [18:35:43] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  264. [18:37:33] <briansuda> yes, when i extract the vCards, i get all 16 just fine
  265. [18:37:43] <TantekC> trovster, that's in reference to your page
  266. [18:38:29] <trovster> Extract with?
  267. [18:40:21] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
  268. [18:42:23] <briansuda> http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/get-vcard.php?beta=yes&uri=http%3A//www.multipack.co.uk/members/
  269. [18:49:02] <tantek> brian, what if you try without the "beta=yes"?
  270. [18:49:34] * limbo_zzz is now known as limbo_
  271. [18:49:59] <briansuda> it doesn't matter, with or without, i have done, both
  272. [18:56:17] * danja (i=DannyAye@host245-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  273. [18:57:19] <tantek> odd, same here brian. both work for me now.
  274. [18:57:33] <tantek> trovster, did you change something in the markup?
  275. [18:59:46] * Ragdoll (n=chatzill@rrcs-67-52-54-196.west.biz.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  276. [18:59:46] <jibot> Ragdoll is learning to use jibot
  277. [18:59:53] <trovster> Nope. I literally drove home. Heh!
  278. [19:00:06] <Ragdoll> Hello, folks.
  279. [19:00:20] <briansuda> glad to be of service! i like when things fix themselves
  280. [19:00:29] * bear is now known as bear_lunch
  281. [19:01:37] <Ragdoll> The last guy to use the Ragdoll handle registered a year ago and left a day later. Think this can be cleared so I can use it?
  282. [19:01:52] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  283. [19:04:04] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has left #microformats
  284. [19:09:46] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@c-69-181-81-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  285. [19:10:51] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  286. [19:12:35] <Ragdoll> Is there an application out right now that collects hCalendar data? Like a place where I could look up events in Lincoln, Nebraska and it aggregates all the appropriate data.
  287. [19:28:02] <tantek> bk, see your email ;)
  288. [19:28:06] <qid> Ragdoll: we can't help you with Freenode network issues, FYI
  289. [19:28:31] <tantek> ragdoll, i believe EVDB is working on aggregating hCalendar
  290. [19:29:41] <Ragdoll> Cool, I will check it out.
  291. [19:30:52] <Ragdoll> Wow, how does this know my location without me explicitly telling it?
  292. [19:31:04] <bkdelong> Thanks, Tantek. Very helpful.
  293. [19:32:56] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ("Leaving")
  294. [19:33:37] <pnhChris> am i missing something at eventful? whys it look like the site thinks its september
  295. [19:35:56] <hober> tantek: unfortunately, we're not working on that, no
  296. [19:36:03] <hober> Ragdoll: IP geolocation
  297. [19:36:07] <hober> pnhChris: how do you mean?
  298. [19:36:46] * hober works on eventful, in case that isn't obvious from the replies :)
  299. [19:37:13] <pnhChris> non registered user, go to the site for the first time in who knows how long... see "upcoming events in USA.. and they're sep3+ sep 12+ sep 17+.. etc
  300. [19:37:55] <hober> pnhChris: thanks. looking into it
  301. [19:37:57] <pnhChris> ah.. its all year long "events"
  302. [19:38:10] <pnhChris> sep 3 2005 - sep 30 2006
  303. [19:39:15] <hober> right.
  304. [19:39:35] * hober makes a note to fix our little calendar-like date display dudes, to make that more clear
  305. [19:39:52] <mfbot> [[press-faq]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/press-faq * Tantek * (+687) created. might as well answer press questions on the wiki.
  306. [19:39:54] <hober> You might call what it's doing a feature, maybe
  307. [19:39:56] <hober> :/
  308. [19:40:34] <pnhChris> i guess i don't expect ongoing perfomances of a comedy troupe to be an "upcoming" event vs. an "ongoing" thing
  309. [19:40:58] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4897 * Tantek * (+154)
  310. [19:41:00] <hober> well, the particular performances that haven't happened yet are upcoming, yes?
  311. [19:41:12] <pnhChris> or the upcoming thing be specific to the night this week they're playing so that it doesn't get stuck in a search query as sept of last year
  312. [19:41:41] <hober> Typically, the IP geolocation stuff will get a better location for you, not something generic like USA.
  313. [19:41:53] <hober> and in more specific locations, this is much less of an issue
  314. [19:42:05] <hober> but it is an issue, which has been raised with the relevant people
  315. [19:42:08] <pnhChris> and less if i was signed up i'm sure
  316. [19:42:12] <pnhChris> just an odd first impression
  317. [19:42:15] <hober> I agree
  318. [19:46:23] <tantek> yes, note that upcoming has *also* ditched recurring events
  319. [19:46:29] <tantek> as well as EVDB
  320. [19:46:37] <hober> We ditched recurring events?
  321. [19:46:50] <tantek> that's what Brian keeps saying
  322. [19:46:53] <tantek> (your Brian)
  323. [19:47:04] <hober> That's, err, interesting.
  324. [19:47:14] <tantek> because it caused too much noise in results
  325. [19:47:17] <tantek> they caused
  326. [19:48:36] <hober> We support recurring events from non-user data sources, but don't have a recurrence UI in place for users when adding/editing events.
  327. [19:48:48] <tantek> ah that's it
  328. [19:49:07] <tantek> odd that you trust non-user data sources more than users
  329. [19:49:15] <hober> Recurrence UI is hard; let's go shopping!
  330. [19:49:19] * tantek thinks of Encyclopedia Britannica vs. Wikipedia.
  331. [19:49:27] <hober> Well, parsing RRULEs isn't hard.
  332. [19:49:33] <tantek> uh
  333. [19:49:38] <pnhChris> i guess if they could be handled more like recurring events in the listing.. with perhaps a limit on how many times they could repeat or for how long it would cut down on the noise (have to relist monthly for example).. but i can see that.. 10 museums posting their daily repeating schedules and you don't have much room left
  334. [19:49:46] <hober> (well {R,D}{RULE,DATE})
  335. [19:49:49] <tantek> hober, I *dare* you to repeat that on the ietf-calsify list
  336. [19:49:53] <hober> heh.
  337. [19:50:04] <hober> Obviously, I'm not the one who has to write that part of the code.
  338. [19:50:18] <hober> But hey, the code got written, and it works, so there you go.
  339. [19:50:52] <tantek> i'm just saying many others have tried, and only gotten like 90% or so to work
  340. [19:51:05] <hober> What I mean is that parsing iCal is at least reasonably algorithmic. Creating great, usable UI isn't.
  341. [19:51:10] <tantek> including across DST changes etc.
  342. [19:51:30] <tantek> hober, that's certainly true
  343. [19:52:04] <qid> hober: hmm, what happens if someone visits your site from a multihomed IP address?
  344. [19:52:22] <hober> qid: dunno
  345. [19:56:33] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
  346. [19:58:28] * dglazkov likes the recurring events conversation
  347. [19:59:54] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  348. [20:00:08] <dglazkov> I would like to solve the recurring events UI problem...
  349. [20:02:10] <pnhChris> does the ical format have a way to exclude certain dates or repetitions in the cycle? I'm not very familiar with it unfortunately
  350. [20:02:39] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@128.189.191.84) has joined #microformats
  351. [20:02:51] <hober> pnhChris: yes, DDATE and DRULE
  352. [20:03:04] <hober> err, sorry, XDATE and XRULE
  353. [20:03:11] <hober> something like that anyway
  354. [20:03:28] <hober> the exclusion rules and dates are exactly the same as the recurrence rules/dates
  355. [20:05:21] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  356. [20:05:50] * cee-dub is now known as cee-dub|lunch
  357. [20:13:23] <Ragdoll> hober: What service do you use for the geolocation?
  358. [20:21:33] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  359. [20:22:41] * Atamido____ (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  360. [20:24:51] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  361. [20:31:23] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  362. [20:32:26] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  363. [20:32:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  364. [20:32:45] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
  365. [20:39:49] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  366. [20:40:05] * Atamido_____ (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  367. [20:40:11] * Atamido_____ is now known as Atamido
  368. [20:40:12] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
  369. [20:42:35] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  370. [20:47:38] * Atamido_____ (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  371. [20:53:07] * Atamido______ (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  372. [20:53:52] <hober> Ragdoll: We bought a geolocation db, but I don't know which one offhand.
  373. [20:55:08] * Snowden (n=some@c-67-171-198-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  374. [21:00:06] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  375. [21:00:13] * Atamido____ (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  376. [21:05:10] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  377. [21:07:39] <KevinMarks> http://homepage.mac.com/kevinmarks/nv.mov
  378. [21:07:42] * Atamido_______ (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  379. [21:07:49] * Atamido_______ is now known as Atamido
  380. [21:10:40] * Atamido_____ (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  381. [21:15:11] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has left #microformats
  382. [21:16:48] * _psychic1 (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  383. [21:17:08] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("bye")
  384. [21:21:25] * Atamido______ (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  385. [21:24:02] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
  386. [21:24:17] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@128.189.191.84) has joined #microformats
  387. [21:27:52] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  388. [21:31:57] * KingDiamond is now known as KingDiamond|away
  389. [21:35:13] * cee-dub|lunch is now known as cee-dub-werkin
  390. [21:39:23] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  391. [21:41:16] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  392. [21:41:16] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  393. [21:44:30] * izo (n=izo@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  394. [21:49:00] * TantekC sets mode +o KevinMarks
  395. [21:49:32] <TantekC> hey Kevin, join #barcamp
  396. [21:53:41] * _psychic1 is now known as _psychic_
  397. [21:55:44] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  398. [21:56:07] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) has joined #microformats
  399. [22:09:44] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Connection timed out)
  400. [22:10:41] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  401. [22:11:16] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@d58-105-95-64.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  402. [22:11:16] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
  403. [22:11:28] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  404. [22:23:19] * bewest|work (n=bewest@c-69-138-89-146.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
  405. [22:30:22] <TantekC> they're talking about tagging at MooseCamp: http://homepage.mac.com/kevinmarks/nv.mov
  406. [22:40:39] * Ragdoll (n=chatzill@rrcs-67-52-54-196.west.biz.rr.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  407. [22:42:10] <_psychic_> TantekC: Are you there at the session?
  408. [22:45:51] <KevinMarks> I am
  409. [22:46:21] <_psychic_> I can't quite hear well - but what is the alternative to tagging they are discussing?
  410. [22:46:56] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
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  416. [23:12:25] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  417. [23:12:25] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  420. [23:30:50] * dotBen (n=foo@dotben.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  421. [23:30:51] <jibot> dotBen is Ben Metcalfe & blogging at http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/ & civil to mena http://flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/70863244/ & not at BarCampNYC & the guy who likes to say bullshit & prone to shouting "Bullshit" in IRC Backchannels & does not like Apple computers & the man behind http://backstage.bbc.co.uk - the BBC's developer network
  422. [23:30:59] <TantekC> welcome ben!
  423. [23:31:01] <dotBen> hey
  424. [23:31:26] <dotBen> comments microformat
  425. [23:31:36] <TantekC> to set the context a bit
  426. [23:31:38] <TantekC> there are currently three fairly active, fairly well proceeding blog-related microformat efforts
  427. [23:31:39] <dotBen> (perhaps _conversation_ microformat, acutaly... hmmm not sure)
  428. [23:31:55] <TantekC> I think comments on a blog are a different enough case to justify studying as such
  429. [23:32:10] <TantekC> First there is hAtom for marking up posts in a blog
  430. [23:32:16] <TantekC> http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom
  431. [23:32:32] <dotBen> yup
  432. [23:32:51] <TantekC> Second, we have the blog-description work which is all about marking up everything else in a blog, see here for starters: http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-description-examples
  433. [23:33:29] <dotBen> yes, that's sort of the "vs structured blogging" stuff
  434. [23:33:31] <TantekC> And Third, we have the blog-info work for documenting how people describe and reference blogs from other sites. http://microformats.org/wiki/blog-info-examples
  435. [23:33:32] <dotBen> <ducks>
  436. [23:33:34] <dotBen> :)
  437. [23:33:41] <TantekC> heh, not quite
  438. [23:33:53] <TantekC> the portions of a blog besides the posts
  439. [23:33:57] <dotBen> I see
  440. [23:34:05] <TantekC> e.g. the header with description, author, contact info, blogrolls, footer with license etc.
  441. [23:34:44] <dotBen> well, for me it's a bout solving a problem
  442. [23:34:45] <TantekC> that's what blog-description is for
  443. [23:34:50] <TantekC> good!
  444. [23:35:11] <dotBen> the problem is how do you tack comments -- you've made, on your blog, on blogs your interested in
  445. [23:35:16] <TantekC> part of the microformats process is that we research existing behavior *first* before proposing any solutions BTW
  446. [23:35:16] <dotBen> track*
  447. [23:35:22] <dotBen> quite
  448. [23:35:26] <TantekC> ah yes
  449. [23:35:38] <TantekC> basically, how do we do a distributed CoComment?
  450. [23:35:45] <dotBen> it's the problem cocomment is trying to solve, but onto that in moment
  451. [23:35:59] <dotBen> well
  452. [23:36:01] <dotBen> have you seen http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/02/05/cocomment-semantically-forked-conversation/
  453. [23:36:19] <dotBen> that's the other reason for it -- cocomment fundamentally doesn't work
  454. [23:36:34] <dotBen> and will never work in the longtail where the chances of the audience using cocomment are next to 0
  455. [23:37:25] <dotBen> <lets you have a read of that blog post>
  456. [23:37:31] <dotBen> brb
  457. [23:39:36] <TantekC> yikes!
  458. [23:39:45] <TantekC> the semantically forking thing is really stupid
  459. [23:39:47] <TantekC> ugh
  460. [23:39:51] <TantekC> i had no idea
  461. [23:39:54] <dotBen> yeah
  462. [23:40:00] <dotBen> to be honest
  463. [23:40:01] <dotBen> it's shit
  464. [23:40:10] <TantekC> so is asking *every* person who comments to sign up for the service
  465. [23:40:12] <dotBen> I have to say at leat they got _something_ out to solve the problem
  466. [23:40:14] <dotBen> yes
  467. [23:40:15] <TantekC> like you said, that won't work
  468. [23:40:21] <TantekC> right
  469. [23:40:35] <dotBen> because they can't screen scrape every different template to get the other non-cocomment submitted comments out
  470. [23:40:45] <dotBen> it's a nice try, but no cigar
  471. [23:40:52] <TantekC> right
  472. [23:41:05] <dotBen> and what's worse is you actually get mis-representation
  473. [23:41:10] <dotBen> as I said, what about spam
  474. [23:41:24] <dotBen> or comments you choose to remove/edit (not that you should edit, but if you legally need to etc)
  475. [23:41:39] <BenjaminCarlyle> Gahh.. too much email to catch up on. I'll try to look into recent hAtom happenings today, or tomorrow.
  476. [23:41:46] <TantekC> yeah, the fact that there is more than one "version" of a comment is a big problem
  477. [23:41:55] <dotBen> also, as the blog owner, I loose control of MY representation of MY comments
  478. [23:42:02] <dotBen> (on MY post)
  479. [23:42:10] <dotBen> ok, so it's shit
  480. [23:42:13] <dotBen> so what can we do?
  481. [23:42:22] <dotBen> well for a start there are a number of behaviors here
  482. [23:42:49] <dotBen> 1) people like me, probably you, who's exposure in the blogosphere is mainly via newsreader and agregators
  483. [23:42:50] <TantekC> what you're asking for is really a comment aggregator
  484. [23:43:02] <dotBen> well that's the outcome from the microformat
  485. [23:43:06] <TantekC> something that aggregates *comments* on blog posts in addition to the posts themselves
  486. [23:43:11] <dotBen> yes
  487. [23:43:18] <TantekC> and then does intelligent things with them in the UI
  488. [23:43:19] <dotBen> but of course you can then do lots of other cool things too
  489. [23:43:19] <KevinMarks> i want the blog services that authenticate comments to create 'blogs' of them
  490. [23:43:24] <TantekC> (insert UI cleverness here ;) )
  491. [23:43:41] <dotBen> at the moment, I'm at the level where I want to output the XML
  492. [23:43:54] <TantekC> heh, don't assume XML ;)
  493. [23:43:54] <dotBen> what you then do with it is up to you
  494. [23:43:59] <dotBen> well
  495. [23:44:13] <KevinMarks> # inculde 'xhtml is xml'
  496. [23:44:21] <TantekC> that's part of the point of microformats. you don't actually need to create yet another version of the data.
  497. [23:44:22] <dotBen> like I said - the behavior I'm thinking about is people like me who use agregators - not browsers - to access the blogosphere
  498. [23:44:39] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@70-59-78-222.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  499. [23:44:40] <jibot> jakedahn is Jake Dahn he blogs at http://jakedahn.com . He also runs http://looce.com and is a volunteer @ Flock and BarCamp's Official Kid
  500. [23:44:43] <TantekC> sure, comment aggregators can offer RSS feeds of aggregated comments
  501. [23:45:19] <dotBen> we should discuss the xhtml/xml thing later/another time -- that's an interesting debate for various reasons
  502. [23:45:20] <BenjaminCarlyle> Comment aggregation could work in with distributed-conversation. You could treat them as individual blog entries hosted with the entry being commented on. They aren't that different to h
  503. [23:45:21] <dotBen> :)
  504. [23:45:33] <BenjaminCarlyle> Ooops.. to hentry
  505. [23:46:06] <dotBen> hmmm but from an object perspective blogs posts are different to comments
  506. [23:46:22] <BenjaminCarlyle> As I understand things the atom committee deliberatly wrote the comment problem off as too hard to solve in a feed format. It could still be solved externally, though.
  507. [23:46:23] <dotBen> there are many other properties a blog post can have that a comment doesnt
  508. [23:46:33] <TantekC> correct
  509. [23:46:35] <dotBen> ok ok
  510. [23:46:39] <TantekC> it is a different problem
  511. [23:46:41] <dotBen> can I outline an _idea_ I have
  512. [23:46:43] <TantekC> similar, but different
  513. [23:46:50] <BenjaminCarlyle> I'm kind of struggling to think of any... do you have an example?
  514. [23:46:53] <TantekC> ben, how about researching and documenting it first
  515. [23:47:09] <TantekC> benjamin, it might be a strict subset
  516. [23:47:10] <BenjaminCarlyle> I'm thinking of a comment as being pretty much the same as a blog entry I write in distributed-converstation style about the original blog entry...
  517. [23:47:13] <dotBen> Ben: technorati tags, enclosures
  518. [23:47:19] <dotBen> catagoris
  519. [23:47:29] <BenjaminCarlyle> Ok, that makes sens.
  520. [23:47:30] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) has left #microformats
  521. [23:47:30] <BenjaminCarlyle> e.
  522. [23:47:34] <TantekC> it may be that a comment is a strict subset of an entry
  523. [23:47:46] <TantekC> but we should research it first to determine it
  524. [23:47:47] <dotBen> well, I disagree
  525. [23:47:54] <TantekC> ben, hence *may*
  526. [23:47:55] <dotBen> I think comments are very different
  527. [23:47:58] <dotBen> lol
  528. [23:48:00] <dotBen> ok
  529. [23:48:01] <dotBen> :)
  530. [23:48:09] <TantekC> ben, i'm not saying i know either
  531. [23:48:21] <TantekC> this is why step 1 is research and document examples
  532. [23:48:24] <dotBen> well to go back to behaviors
  533. [23:48:32] <dotBen> the intersting thing I would like to mini-brainstorm
  534. [23:48:39] <dotBen> is what other 'problems' are there around comment
  535. [23:48:42] <dotBen> comments
  536. [23:48:52] <dotBen> tracking is one (a la cocomments)
  537. [23:48:57] <dotBen> agregating is another
  538. [23:49:10] <dotBen> searching (a la technorati for conversation) is another
  539. [23:49:16] <dotBen> but there may be others
  540. [23:49:18] <dotBen> ????
  541. [23:49:23] <BenjaminCarlyle> I guess the interesting question from the aggregation question is whether you would try to aggregate blog entries about something and comments about that some thing together...
  542. [23:49:56] <TantekC> i want the Flickr "Comments you've made" feature
  543. [23:50:02] <dotBen> yes
  544. [23:50:12] <TantekC> but across the whole web
  545. [23:50:14] <dotBen> exactly
  546. [23:50:38] <dotBen> well, if the microformat was adopted, there's a whole business in there for a technorati/pubsub/icerocket of converastion
  547. [23:50:42] <TantekC> ok, that's a good problem statement
  548. [23:50:48] <TantekC> so now we head to the wiki
  549. [23:51:05] <TantekC> dotBen, take a moment to read http://microformats.org/wiki/process
  550. [23:51:12] <dotBen> sure
  551. [23:51:22] <factoryjoe> hmm
  552. [23:51:28] <factoryjoe> looks like i missed a good discussion
  553. [23:51:37] <factoryjoe> comments, in my thinking, are a browser's "sent mail"
  554. [23:51:39] <TantekC> chris, it has just begun, don't worry
  555. [23:51:51] <TantekC> reread from archives to catch up
  556. [23:51:58] <dotBen> can I ask a question Taktek
  557. [23:52:06] <dotBen> which maybe you can't answer but would be nice...
  558. [23:52:14] <TantekC> yes of course
  559. [23:52:15] <dotBen> is this a problem technorati is already working on solving?
  560. [23:52:38] <dotBen> because if it is then it kind of would be good to know
  561. [23:52:39] <TantekC> it is a problem we would *like* to solve, but are not solving currently
  562. [23:52:42] <dotBen> ok
  563. [23:52:44] <dotBen> that's cool
  564. [23:52:52] <TantekC> it is a *difficult* problem
  565. [23:53:04] <KevinMarks> well, insofar as blogposts are comments we do
  566. [23:53:07] <dotBen> and just out of curiosity. from your experience...
  567. [23:53:12] <dotBen> what are the difficult aspects?
  568. [23:53:15] <TantekC> Kevin, we're not talking about that
  569. [23:53:15] <dotBen> aother than adoption
  570. [23:53:24] <factoryjoe> this is an attention issue too
  571. [23:53:27] <factoryjoe> for example
  572. [23:53:28] <TantekC> we're specifically scoping the discussion to *comments* on *blogs*
  573. [23:53:31] <factoryjoe> if i add an event to upcoming
  574. [23:53:41] <factoryjoe> it should list my comments next to events created...
  575. [23:53:51] <KevinMarks> attribution/authentication of commenter is hard
  576. [23:54:11] <TantekC> Kevin, that might be necessary for all applications
  577. [23:54:15] <dotBen> Kevin - that's an area I definitely DON'T want to try and solve
  578. [23:54:19] <dotBen> not for this anyway,
  579. [23:54:28] <dotBen> otherwise it will never happen
  580. [23:54:36] <TantekC> right, let's keep this simple folks
  581. [23:54:41] <dotBen> for me it's about a programtic representation of the comments list I see on a given blog post
  582. [23:54:41] <KevinMarks> yes
  583. [23:54:55] <dotBen> at this point in time I don't care whether the "factoryjoe" who has posted on a gien blog is really chris m or not
  584. [23:55:05] <dotBen> given*
  585. [23:55:10] <factoryjoe> agreed
  586. [23:55:17] <factoryjoe> i think it's about watching a discussion
  587. [23:55:20] <factoryjoe> and seeing threads emerge
  588. [23:55:25] <dotBen> bingo
  589. [23:55:28] <pnhChris> hmm.. maybe i should stop commenting as "chris"
  590. [23:55:31] <factoryjoe> gmail for the blogosphere
  591. [23:55:34] <TantekC> irc is still quite useful, even though you don't always know that a nickname is always the same person
  592. [23:55:47] <dotBen> what we MIGHT need is a unique identifier for commentor
  593. [23:56:00] <TantekC> you mean like a URL?
  594. [23:56:01] <dotBen> if you want to traverse comment representations in a search/agregator environment
  595. [23:56:02] <TantekC> :)
  596. [23:56:04] <dotBen> yes
  597. [23:56:06] <factoryjoe> heh
  598. [23:56:08] <factoryjoe> yes
  599. [23:56:09] <factoryjoe> damn
  600. [23:56:11] <factoryjoe> i need rhyzo
  601. [23:56:13] <TantekC> like maybe their *BLOG* url ? :)
  602. [23:56:15] <dotBen> perhaps an md5 of the email, generated by the blog engine
  603. [23:56:19] <TantekC> yuck
  604. [23:56:22] <factoryjoe> yeah yuck
  605. [23:56:23] <pnhChris> i don't always use a url.. particularly when they're blogs of eople i know
  606. [23:56:24] <dotBen> I said maybe
  607. [23:56:24] <KevinMarks> ew
  608. [23:56:30] <dotBen> I just thoutht of it in my head
  609. [23:56:37] <factoryjoe> dotBen: FOOL!
  610. [23:56:40] <pnhChris> so its just "chris" .. and thus i figure the comment is lost
  611. [23:56:41] <factoryjoe> INFIDEL!
  612. [23:56:42] <dotBen> but look
  613. [23:56:50] <dotBen> you have two options on that:
  614. [23:56:53] <TantekC> dotBen, so first things first
  615. [23:56:57] <dotBen> 1) acess a central service
  616. [23:56:59] <factoryjoe> been smokin' the hash tables again eh?
  617. [23:57:03] <TantekC> let's document the examples
  618. [23:57:14] <dotBen> 2) geneate unique identigiers in the blog engine and hope everyone ends up with the same
  619. [23:57:31] <dotBen> and both are messy and beyond what I want to do with this format
  620. [23:58:08] <TantekC> right, punt on the whole uniqueids thing
  621. [23:58:15] <TantekC> they are not necessary, and a huge rathole
  622. [23:58:24] <TantekC> and then you get into all the identity arguments etc.
  623. [23:58:34] <KevinMarks> use urls, move on
  624. [23:58:43] <TantekC> agreed
  625. [23:58:45] <dotBen> so look
  626. [23:58:51] <dotBen> do all your microformats end up being xhtml
  627. [23:58:54] <dotBen> cos that's sucky too
  628. [23:58:59] <dotBen> sorry but it's true
  629. [23:59:02] <TantekC> no, that's what people actually use on the web
  630. [23:59:03] <KevinMarks> eh?
  631. [23:59:11] <mfbot> [[distributed-conversation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=distributed-conversation-examples&diff=0&oldid=4898 * BenjaminCarlyle * (+207) href and quote example
  632. [23:59:44] <factoryjoe> dotBen: whoah man, you're in the microformats channel now
  633. [23:59:50] <factoryjoe> show some civility

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