IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-03-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:13] <DanC> hmm... I have some code to go from RDF calendar to hCalendar... well, almost... http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/99
  2. [00:00:38] <DanC> (and fromIcal.py which goes from .ics to RDF)
  3. [00:01:18] <DanC> I have a really cool hCalendar weekly schedule generated from my PDA. But it's too sensitive to publish. argh! oh for more time to spend on testing!
  4. [00:01:20] <tantek> Hailstorm is only relevant in that it was an attempt to introduce a bunch of new technologies, including some reinvented formats for contact info, that didn't get uptake by developers.
  5. [00:01:43] <tantek> rebuilding Hailstorm now, upon standard microformats, would work *much* better
  6. [00:01:59] <tantek> wow, another boring view of RSS
  7. [00:02:02] <DanC> you've judge it relevant enough to dignify with a response. that's more than I was asking for.
  8. [00:02:17] <tantek> "RSS: how to dumb down and uglify the web"
  9. [00:02:36] <tantek> DanC, I judged the *person* relevant enough to dignify with a response, not the statement.
  10. [00:02:50] <tantek> The fundamental assumption we should have is to treat people with respect.
  11. [00:03:23] <tantek> oops, Tantek meant to make a few of those statements in #mix06
  12. [00:03:38] <DanC> in the dig blog, we get a lot of spam and a lot of stuff that I can't be sure is spam but isn't relevant. I delete it.
  13. [00:03:43] * DanC -> family time
  14. [00:03:47] * trovv (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit ()
  15. [00:05:09] <tantek> um, and besides WTF did my post have to do with REST? anyone here know Jeff?
  16. [00:05:34] <KevinMarks> is a trailing Z on a time allowed to be in .ics ?
  17. [00:05:50] <kingryan> I believe so
  18. [00:07:37] <KevinMarks> any idea why this sin't working? http://feeds.technorati.com/events/http://openrightsgroup.org
  19. [00:08:57] <bretonsli> works for me
  20. [00:09:02] <bretonsli> what's it supposed to do?
  21. [00:09:07] <bretonsli> are the times off or something?
  22. [00:09:18] <KevinMarks> I don't get an event in my iCalendar
  23. [00:09:56] <KevinMarks> it's supposed to be 11am to 2pm on Sunday in GMT
  24. [00:09:56] <tantek> KevinMarks, use Suda's X2V for debugging/validating
  25. [00:10:18] <tantek> and yes, UTC times with Z are allowed in RFC2445
  26. [00:11:03] <mfbot> [[rest/datatypes]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=5452 * DrErnie * (-846) Example -
  27. [00:11:04] <bretonsli> hah that's weird. I've got 5:08pm to 5:30pm this evening
  28. [00:11:14] <KevinMarks> yes, and I get nothing
  29. [00:11:19] <KevinMarks> so somthing is a drift
  30. [00:11:38] <KevinMarks> it makes:
  31. [00:11:39] <KevinMarks> DTSTART:20060319T1100Z
  32. [00:11:40] <KevinMarks> DTEND:20060319T1400Z
  33. [00:13:02] * DanC_lap (n=connolly@64-126-89-30-dhcp-kc.everestkc.net) has joined #microformats
  34. [00:13:08] <tantek> Kevin, that should work
  35. [00:13:14] <kingryan> if I append the seconds, it works in iCal
  36. [00:13:20] <tantek> ah interesting
  37. [00:13:36] <kingryan> I've never seen this problem before
  38. [00:13:37] <tantek> sounds like a feature request for Suda to add to X2V
  39. [00:13:41] <tantek> kingryan, me neither
  40. [00:13:55] <tantek> my guess is that the "Z" case might not pad seconds as all the other cases do
  41. [00:14:01] <tantek> (in the XSLT)
  42. [00:14:04] <KevinMarks> ah that may be it
  43. [00:14:17] <tantek> s/Z/+00:00
  44. [00:14:32] <KevinMarks> I vaguely remember that fixing a simialr issue
  45. [00:14:34] <tantek> and that might cause it to "work" with current X2V / feeds.t.c/events
  46. [00:14:43] <KevinMarks> well, this came from the mf.org generator
  47. [00:14:49] * holly (n=holly@adsl-69-212-1-147.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) has joined #microformats
  48. [00:14:51] <KevinMarks> want to make thta change, Ryan?
  49. [00:15:10] <tantek> no Kevin, we want Brian to make the change in X2V
  50. [00:15:18] <tantek> that's where the fix should be made
  51. [00:15:51] <tantek> hmm... can't get on iChat/AIM here
  52. [00:15:55] <KevinMarks> yes, but in the meantime, fixing the generator would be a good thing
  53. [00:16:14] <tantek> Kevin, there is no "in the meantime"
  54. [00:16:19] <tantek> that is how we fix the generator
  55. [00:16:31] <KevinMarks> ?
  56. [00:16:31] <tantek> we update the X2V XSLT code
  57. [00:16:38] <tantek> and then deploy and update
  58. [00:16:54] <kingryan> KevinMarks, I'm mostly incapable of editing the xslt
  59. [00:16:58] <tantek> Kevin, please email the bug report to microformats-dev at microformats dot org
  60. [00:17:09] <tantek> Brian's on that, he'll get it
  61. [00:17:17] <tantek> mention X2V, hCalendar in the subject
  62. [00:17:44] <tantek> ok, break time, gotta run
  63. [00:17:54] <tantek> anyway, you know where to report microformats implementations bugs now
  64. [00:18:30] * tantek (n=tantek@65.160.19.103) Quit ()
  65. [00:18:45] * bear is now known as bear_dinner
  66. [00:19:10] <bretonsli> Is anyone here familiar with textpattern?
  67. [00:22:07] <bretonsli> bah, nevermind
  68. [00:23:23] <pnhAway> yes
  69. [00:23:27] <pnhAway> but nevermind :P
  70. [00:23:28] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  71. [00:23:36] * pnhAway is now known as pnhChris
  72. [00:23:37] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  73. [00:23:44] <pnhChris> kingryan: still around?
  74. [00:23:45] <mfbot> [[rest/datatypes]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=5453 * DrErnie * (-471) Proposal - incorporate Kevin & Tantek's suggestions
  75. [00:24:00] <pnhChris> feed-id / parser question
  76. [00:24:06] <mfbot> [[rest/datatypes]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=5454 * DrErnie * (+2) Binary Data -
  77. [00:24:37] <mfbot> [[rest/datatypes]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=5455 * DrErnie * (+13) String -
  78. [00:24:38] <pnhChris> what is expected there.. its now pulling the id value for the hfeed'd element if there is one
  79. [00:24:45] <pnhChris> and nothign if there isn't
  80. [00:25:22] <pnhChris> since hatom doesn't require it, should i assume it properly should jsut be the url of the page without any greater specificity?
  81. [00:26:03] <mfbot> [[rest/datatypes]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=5456 * DrErnie * (+90) Tag Summary -
  82. [00:26:16] <kingryan> it should be the URL, with a fragment reference to the id of the hfeed, if there is one
  83. [00:26:59] <mfbot> [[rest/datatypes]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=5457 * DrErnie * (+19) Usage -
  84. [00:27:20] * DanC borrows a moment from family time...
  85. [00:27:46] <DanC> kingryan, does Brian know about the office hours you picked? any idea if he's available? I just put it in my calendar.
  86. [00:27:55] <pnhChris> ok
  87. [00:28:05] <mfbot> [[rest/datatypes]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=5458 * DrErnie * (+44) Usage -
  88. [00:28:12] <pnhChris> and the author not being found in the case of my example above.. that was my error
  89. [00:28:17] <DanC> interestingly, it's a repeating event in a timezone other than Z. not expressible in hCalendar.
  90. [00:28:21] <mfbot> [[rest/datatypes]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=5459 * DrErnie * (-2) Summary -
  91. [00:28:36] <kingryan> DanC, haven't talked to him about it yet
  92. [00:28:40] <kingryan> I'll see
  93. [00:28:49] <pnhChris> outside of the feed i had address class="vcard"... not both vcard and author classes
  94. [00:29:11] <DanC> I hope to sync up with him on the XSLT code. (and hence get myself in a position to help with the problem Kevin is reporting)
  95. [00:29:33] <kingryan> DanC, my event's not supposed to be repeating
  96. [00:29:51] <kingryan> hence the reason I'm publishing an ics file, which is edited in iCal, rather than an hCal event
  97. [00:30:02] <DanC> tantek, are you swapped in on using hcard as a location in hCalendar? the outer event gets the inner hCard's url, using the current X2V. I don't see a fix.
  98. [00:30:03] <kingryan> ('cause it may change some weeks)
  99. [00:30:34] <DanC> er... that doesn't argue for not using hCal
  100. [00:30:47] <DanC> we do hope/expect apple ical to read hCal in due course, no?
  101. [00:30:52] <kingryan> I'm just saying it'd be more difficult for me to author, right now
  102. [00:31:11] <kingryan> its a matter of convenience for me
  103. [00:31:16] * DanC put it in my calendar as a weekly thing; hope springs eternal..
  104. [00:31:22] <kingryan> it will change when I get a chance
  105. [00:31:42] <DanC> convenient. ack.
  106. [00:31:43] * tantek (n=tantek@65.160.19.104) has joined #microformats
  107. [00:31:43] <kingryan> good luck with the hope thing
  108. [00:31:43] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  109. [00:31:49] * DanC_lap (n=connolly@64-126-89-30-dhcp-kc.everestkc.net) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  110. [00:32:01] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  111. [00:33:28] <bretonsli> I've been toying with the idea of creating a microformats plugin for textpattern. I am aware that one exists, but I don't entirely agree with the way in which it is implemented
  112. [00:33:37] <pnhChris> ok.. wrapped up what I think i konw about those 2 examples to the mf list... corrections / next steps welcome
  113. [00:33:54] <pnhChris> on no bretonsli ?
  114. [00:34:04] * pnhChris beats chest
  115. [00:34:11] <pnhChris> what would you do differently?
  116. [00:34:52] * kingryan steps out of the way
  117. [00:34:56] <pnhChris> haha
  118. [00:35:04] <pnhChris> i don't care.. i'm not protective of it
  119. [00:35:12] <bretonsli> You authored it didn't you?
  120. [00:35:15] <bretonsli> *slaps forehead*
  121. [00:35:19] <pnhChris> more curious what you're thinking becuase i've gotten no feedback on it
  122. [00:35:21] <pnhChris> yah
  123. [00:35:24] <pnhChris> :)
  124. [00:36:03] <bretonsli> Okay, here's what I'm thinking
  125. [00:36:22] <bretonsli> I'm in the planning stages for setting up a textpattern setup for a gallery website
  126. [00:36:37] <bretonsli> I mentioned something about this on the mailing list (except no mention of textpattern)
  127. [00:37:13] <bretonsli> Ideally, what I'd like to do is set this up as something the not so html savvy people that run the gallery can use
  128. [00:37:41] <bretonsli> Looking at the examples of usage for the existing microformats plugin
  129. [00:38:12] <bretonsli> it did not seem like the implementation offered a significantly easier method of creating, say, an hcalendar event, than simply typing out the raw xhtml
  130. [00:38:18] <pnhChris> (which aren't that pretty i agree.. helped a little by my tag helper additions)
  131. [00:38:40] <bretonsli> Hrmn I haven't had a look at those admittedly.
  132. [00:38:43] <pnhChris> well
  133. [00:39:02] <pnhChris> take a look at them
  134. [00:39:13] <pnhChris> for the more complex formats like hcalendar specifically
  135. [00:39:41] <pnhChris> they're not that refined (things like helpers for entering dates would be nice)
  136. [00:39:53] <pnhChris> but they're better then typign raw tags
  137. [00:40:16] <pnhChris> .. do you see them there... or are you using the first version of the plugin?
  138. [00:40:25] <pnhChris> but my plugin aside
  139. [00:40:39] <bretonsli> I'm not sure where to get the latest plugin actually
  140. [00:40:50] <bretonsli> I pretty much just stumbled upon it through textpattern resources
  141. [00:41:32] <bretonsli> Hang on a sec..
  142. [00:41:36] <pnhChris> probably do.. theres only 2 versions (i think).. one with no admin side stuff, and one with some
  143. [00:41:40] <pnhChris> http://placenamehere.com/TXP/pnh_mf/
  144. [00:42:02] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=5460 * RyanKing * (+97) Microformats related Events - added xtech talk
  145. [00:42:25] <bretonsli> As for dates, I had an idea that I actually implemented to a limited extent
  146. [00:42:28] <pnhChris> but my plugin aside... if you're doing events management specifically, might want to do more then just hcalendar inside of a normal psot
  147. [00:42:38] <bretonsli> exactly
  148. [00:42:54] <pnhChris> maybe a new tab that behaves more like the Wp structured blogging plugin
  149. [00:43:09] <bretonsli> that's sort of what I was going to suggest
  150. [00:43:21] <bretonsli> There's a couple of different approaches though
  151. [00:43:34] <bretonsli> Aside from adding new tabs
  152. [00:43:55] <bretonsli> there's also the possibility to use some javascript to modify the existing "write" form
  153. [00:44:01] <bretonsli> to add the extra fields needed
  154. [00:44:48] <bretonsli> As for dates, I was planning on using the PHP function strtotime();
  155. [00:45:01] <pnhChris> my goal was to make something to make it easy to to get properly formatted microformats into templates and/or posts
  156. [00:45:09] <bretonsli> That way you get full use out of the ABBR tag with minimal fuss
  157. [00:45:23] <bretonsli> you use the original input for the tag content, and a parsed out date for the title
  158. [00:45:47] <pnhChris> yeah.. but then you can't use some non-parsable human date
  159. [00:46:03] <pnhChris> which i like to be able to do wen you're just dealing with posting a blog entry
  160. [00:46:55] <pnhChris> but in any case
  161. [00:47:06] <bretonsli> Yeah I totally see its usefulness for that.
  162. [00:47:36] <pnhChris> do you see the tag helpers i mentioned yet?
  163. [00:47:53] <bretonsli> dur I got distracted.
  164. [00:47:53] <pnhChris> just in the left column of the editor by the other tags
  165. [00:47:54] <bretonsli> hang on
  166. [00:48:58] <bretonsli> OOohh I see
  167. [00:49:01] <bretonsli> very nice
  168. [00:49:13] <pnhChris> they're still rather "dumb"
  169. [00:49:21] <pnhChris> but more helpful then nothing
  170. [00:49:22] <bretonsli> yes I see..
  171. [00:49:26] <bretonsli> indeed
  172. [00:50:03] <bretonsli> Well I can see more potential in this now than before definately.
  173. [00:50:22] <bretonsli> I could see using the TXP tags underneath a more user friendly front end
  174. [00:51:02] <bretonsli> perhaps with as you suggested, event management..
  175. [00:51:09] <pnhChris> yeah
  176. [00:51:28] <bretonsli> but also the site will need hResume, hReview, hCard
  177. [00:51:31] <pnhChris> depends what you're posting
  178. [00:52:02] <pnhChris> hresume and hreview start becoming more then you can do in a tiny popup / a single tag
  179. [00:52:13] <bretonsli> Yeah
  180. [00:52:32] <bretonsli> Which is why I'm thinking of having a link on the left column as you have...
  181. [00:52:35] <bretonsli> but instead of a pop up
  182. [00:52:40] <bretonsli> it modifies the form in the page
  183. [00:53:00] <pnhChris> even hcard.. see how i did the address part?
  184. [00:53:13] <bretonsli> But I'm sort of battling it out in my head about the best way to implement this
  185. [00:53:14] <mfbot> [[events/xtech-2006]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/xtech-2006&diff=0&oldid=5461 * RyanKing * (+475) Planning segment - added some rough ideas for planning
  186. [00:53:27] <bretonsli> should I the custom fields?
  187. [00:53:30] <pnhChris> not exactly the easiest thing to do unless you standardize what your users will be entering in some other way / UI
  188. [00:53:45] <bretonsli> should I add extra types ala links
  189. [00:53:51] <bretonsli> files/images
  190. [00:54:03] <bretonsli> requiring some db modification
  191. [00:54:38] <bretonsli> with the extra tabs...
  192. [00:54:44] <bretonsli> hrmn.
  193. [00:55:44] <pnhChris> how are you sorting what "posts" go / get displayed where?
  194. [00:56:34] <bretonsli> Well since I'm really thinking of making a good interface for this one site first, and distributing the results second....
  195. [00:56:45] <bretonsli> It would really work itself out as the different sections on this site
  196. [00:56:58] <bretonsli> for instance, there would be a calendar section, showing upcoming openings, etc..
  197. [00:57:20] <bretonsli> you go to that section, and calendar events are displayed in hcalendar...
  198. [00:57:28] <bretonsli> the artist section displays hcard/hresume
  199. [00:57:36] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.gen.twtelecom.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  200. [00:57:44] <pnhChris> well.. ask up front because it impacts how you enforce what data gets entered where
  201. [00:58:15] <bretonsli> hrmn
  202. [01:00:08] <pnhChris> i dunno the best direction.. i haven't spent a ton of time in the admin interface code.. that plugin was my first one.. and what i saw wasn't all that pretty from the UI markup side
  203. [01:00:43] <bretonsli> Well I know that it is easy enough to add extra tabs
  204. [01:01:54] <bretonsli> http://zenpsycho.kicks-ass.net/Picture%207.png
  205. [01:02:12] <pnhChris> yeah
  206. [01:02:20] <pnhChris> its how you want to lock down the data
  207. [01:02:34] <pnhChris> that i'm not sure what the cleanest way is
  208. [01:03:33] <bretonsli> Well It seems to me that the cleanest way I can think of, kind of goes beyond the bounds of a simple plugin
  209. [01:03:54] <bretonsli> and that is adding seperate types for each microformat
  210. [01:04:02] <bretonsli> with their own respective tables in the DB
  211. [01:04:22] <bretonsli> And the code that does typing
  212. [01:04:48] <bretonsli> and carrying that out to a set of forms under the presentation tab
  213. [01:06:05] <bretonsli> since many microformats present a certain level of flexibility in terms of what actual tags you can use...
  214. [01:06:55] <bretonsli> for instance, the ability for vevents to be presented as cells in a table...
  215. [01:07:08] <bretonsli> the forms would allow that flexibility
  216. [01:07:54] <bretonsli> but perhaps it is too much flexibility for the general population as it may allow the breaking of the format
  217. [01:08:02] <bretonsli> does that make sense?
  218. [01:08:44] <pnhChris> i would either let it all be wide open (my approach) or try and lock it down as much as possible.. which means at least better ui
  219. [01:08:50] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  220. [01:08:50] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  221. [01:09:04] <pnhChris> even if it piggy backs on string in some tags
  222. [01:09:39] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has left #microformats
  223. [01:10:56] <bretonsli> It seems to me though that even forms could be locked down to a certain extent through the use of txp tags
  224. [01:11:47] <bretonsli> For instance, a set of txp tags with the wrap tag attribute, which enforce proper nesting
  225. [01:11:58] <bretonsli> but you can use almost any actual xhtml tags you want
  226. [01:13:48] <bretonsli> Then the actual presentation of the microformats is born out through the inclusion of say <txp:vevents category="openings">
  227. [01:13:56] <bretonsli> in a page template
  228. [01:14:09] <pnhChris> i guess
  229. [01:14:19] <pnhChris> just have to be careful whats inside
  230. [01:14:24] <pnhChris> from a presentation standpoint
  231. [01:15:15] <bretonsli> I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
  232. [01:15:44] <pnhChris> er...
  233. [01:15:44] <bretonsli> like being careful what is contained in the form for a single vevent?
  234. [01:15:50] <pnhChris> yes
  235. [01:15:59] <bretonsli> yes that would be the tricky part
  236. [01:16:41] <pnhChris> and in editing that later..
  237. [01:16:50] <bretonsli> Though I'm not entirely uncomfortable with the idea of assuming that if you're editing a form, that you know what you're doing, more or less
  238. [01:17:04] <bretonsli> and if it bothers anyone, I can add a comment saying as much
  239. [01:17:25] <pnhChris> i think you have a handle on things
  240. [01:17:35] <pnhChris> its a matter of workflow and presentation
  241. [01:17:51] <pnhChris> the storage / need for fields will come from that
  242. [01:18:23] <pnhChris> maybe just single custom files storing your clean markup or soemthing
  243. [01:18:42] <pnhChris> if you don't want to get into full tables for every format
  244. [01:18:44] <pnhChris> i dunno
  245. [01:18:57] <bretonsli> the alternative to full tables is using the custom fields
  246. [01:19:06] <pnhChris> i'm here for questions.. but we're just going around in cicles chatting
  247. [01:19:07] <pnhChris> :)
  248. [01:19:16] <bretonsli> but the problem I forsee there is if someone installs it as a plugin
  249. [01:19:29] <bretonsli> and is already utilizing the custom fields needed by the whole system
  250. [01:20:08] <bretonsli> on the other hand, since plugins pretty much allow arbitrary php code, it's possible to include db install and uninstall proceedures in a plugin
  251. [01:20:16] <bretonsli> for all the custom tables required
  252. [01:20:18] <factoryjoe> tantek: http://blog.codeeg.com/2006/03/20/flock-tails-flocktails/
  253. [01:20:21] <factoryjoe> flocktails flies
  254. [01:21:00] <tantek> factoryjoe, awesome! please add that to the Implementations sections of hCard, hCalendar (and any other formats it supports)
  255. [01:21:06] <factoryjoe> heh
  256. [01:21:12] <factoryjoe> hreview, hcal, hcard
  257. [01:22:28] <tantek> yes please!
  258. [01:22:38] <bretonsli> Alright I think I have a definite direction, thanks for the chat pnhChris
  259. [01:22:45] <pnhChris> anytime
  260. [01:22:58] <pnhChris> and i'm here... or reachable by mail if theres anything else
  261. [01:23:35] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5462 * Chris Messina * (+204) Implementations -
  262. [01:24:08] * holly (n=holly@adsl-69-212-1-147.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  263. [01:24:21] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=5463 * Chris Messina * (+220) Browsing -
  264. [01:24:52] <mfbot> [[xfolk]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk&diff=0&oldid=5464 * Chris Messina * (+204) Implementations -
  265. [01:25:08] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=5465 * Chris Messina * (+204) Examples in the wild -
  266. [01:25:20] <factoryjoe> tantek: and xfolk!
  267. [01:25:48] <tantek> hmm... that last one should go in Implementations, not Examples in the Wild
  268. [01:26:05] <tantek> in hReview
  269. [01:27:50] <factoryjoe> tantek: http://www.horsepigcow.com/2006/03/microformats-from-denial-to-peace-in-7.html
  270. [01:27:58] <factoryjoe> tantek: ok
  271. [01:27:59] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  272. [01:28:03] <tantek> yeah, that was an awesome post by Assaf
  273. [01:28:14] <factoryjoe> stupid hard to use wiki software
  274. [01:28:29] <tantek> sorry chris, it's the best we have right now
  275. [01:30:31] <factoryjoe> heh i know
  276. [01:34:50] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=5466 * Chris Messina * (-204) Examples in the wild -
  277. [01:35:06] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=5467 * Chris Messina * (+204) Implementations -
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  292. [03:01:38] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  293. [03:02:42] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
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  303. [03:29:41] <jibot> limbo_ is Eran and blogs at http://hellonline.com/blog/
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  305. [03:38:16] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
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  313. [04:27:33] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  320. [05:26:41] <bretonsli> .
  321. [05:26:51] * yamico (n=lk@213-182-121-229.teleos-web.de) has joined #microformats
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  334. [09:01:27] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  335. [09:01:27] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  336. [10:05:36] * TheMaecenati (n=TheMaece@adsl-71-132-219-167.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
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  343. [14:20:33] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5468 * BrentO * (+108) Examples in the wild -
  344. [14:31:32] * EliasT (n=EliasT@129.33.1.37) has joined #microformats
  345. [14:38:56] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  346. [14:38:56] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  347. [14:43:38] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-71-181.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  348. [14:43:38] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  349. [14:45:52] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) has joined #microformats
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  351. [15:06:03] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  352. [15:41:53] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  353. [15:41:53] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  364. [16:46:30] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  372. [17:33:03] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  380. [18:10:24] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  384. [18:23:31] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=5469 * DavidJanes * (+17) See Also -
  385. [18:26:32] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
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  387. [18:26:35] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  395. [18:52:38] <jibot> limbo_ is Eran and blogs at http://hellonline.com/blog/
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  402. [19:14:34] * tantek (n=tantek@65.160.19.104) has joined #microformats
  403. [19:14:35] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  404. [19:14:52] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  409. [19:36:22] <tantek> uh folks, you really should be in the #mix06 channel
  410. [19:36:37] <tantek> i'm living irc-ing Scott Isaac's session where he is talking about using microformats
  411. [19:37:00] <pnhChris> but i have to get work done today :)
  412. [19:37:54] <mfbot> [[events]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=5470 * Tantek * (+94)
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  414. [19:39:10] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats * Tantek * (+209) drafted
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  418. [19:51:16] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5471 * DimitriGlazkov * (+2972) first dump
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  423. [19:56:52] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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  427. [20:00:43] <tantek> hi brian
  428. [20:01:15] <tantek> did Kevinmarks contact you regarding handling of "Z" datetimes in X2V?
  429. [20:01:27] <tantek> apparently, "Z" datetimes did not get their seconds padded
  430. [20:01:40] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  431. [20:01:42] <pnhChris> wasn't just Z
  432. [20:01:54] <KevinMarks> brain, I sent the bug to microfromats-dev
  433. [20:01:57] <pnhChris> oh.. x2v.. nvm
  434. [20:02:02] <tantek> right
  435. [20:02:18] <tantek> pnhChris, the hatom2atom xslt needs to be similarly "publisher friendly"
  436. [20:02:29] * pnhChris nods
  437. [20:02:41] * pnhChris goes back to other things
  438. [20:02:54] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit ()
  439. [20:03:10] * bear_errand is now known as bear
  440. [20:04:13] <tantek> Kevinmarks, I'm uploading my aerial photos of England and London, would appreciate some tagging since you probably recognize landmarks better than I do. Thanks! http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/
  441. [20:04:33] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5472 * DimitriGlazkov * (+816)
  442. [20:06:19] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5473 * DimitriGlazkov * (+6)
  443. [20:06:21] <briansuda> ii''ll have alook into the seconds padding, i know we had this problem before.
  444. [20:06:56] <tantek> yes it sounds familiar
  445. [20:07:00] <tantek> I think it is "Z" only though
  446. [20:07:01] <briansuda> do you have an example somewhere for me to test against?
  447. [20:07:06] <tantek> yes
  448. [20:07:10] <tantek> check yesterday's chat log
  449. [20:07:15] <tantek> KevinMarks had posted one to IRC
  450. [20:07:20] <tantek> and I think sent it to microformats-dev
  451. [20:07:21] <tantek> list
  452. [20:07:38] <KevinMarks> my email was a bit flaky yesterday
  453. [20:07:47] <KevinMarks> whats your best address brain, and I'll send ti to you
  454. [20:07:59] <trovster> tantek: bigwhitedome hehe,
  455. [20:08:43] <briansuda> brian@suda.co.uk
  456. [20:08:59] <trovster> Some nice shots though!
  457. [20:09:21] <briansuda> i downloaded the MIX06 keynote, nice microformats reference!
  458. [20:10:15] <KevinMarks> sent
  459. [20:10:32] <KevinMarks> it's been 7 years since i was in london, so they ahve built some new bits
  460. [20:11:18] <tantek> brian, glad to hear the MIX06 keynote download worked for you
  461. [20:11:56] <tantek> could you transcribe that part of the Bill/Tim conversation to this wiki page? exact quotes would be nice. http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2006-03-20-mix06-microformats
  462. [20:13:16] <briansuda> it is saving right now, two hours long makes for a big file... when it is all finished i'll do my best to transcribe some stuff tonight. I can clip out that 30 sec portion, maybe we can put that on the site?
  463. [20:13:24] <tantek> that would be awesome
  464. [20:13:37] <tantek> yes if you can clip out the 30 sec video clip we should podcast that too
  465. [20:13:40] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5474 * DimitriGlazkov * (+81)
  466. [20:16:51] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5475 * DimitriGlazkov * (+41) formatting changes
  467. [20:16:57] <factoryjoe> briansuda: where'd you download it from?
  468. [20:17:15] * bear is now known as bear_mtg
  469. [20:17:46] <briansuda> i downloaded the whole stream then copy/paste in QuickTime Pro (little trick to save files they don't let you save!)... let me find the link - it might be the one off your site.
  470. [20:18:29] <tantek> is there a wiki somewhere where all the QuickTime UI idiocies are documented?
  471. [20:18:33] <KevinMarks> heh
  472. [20:18:37] <factoryjoe> whoa
  473. [20:18:45] <KevinMarks> curl -O is my favorite way to do that
  474. [20:19:02] <briansuda> http://metahost.savvislive.com/microsoft/20060320/mix_gates_20060320_100.asx (that links directly to the avi)
  475. [20:19:58] <briansuda> i think this might be an issue with Flip4Mac, you can watch, but to save you need to upgrade to PRO, OR you can select all, copy, new window, paste - save as mov....
  476. [20:20:21] <factoryjoe> ok
  477. [20:20:21] <factoryjoe> what's the time stamp of the microformats comment?
  478. [20:20:21] <factoryjoe> bill said something about the clipboard around 13'58"
  479. [20:20:21] <factoryjoe> also, check my comments: http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/03/20/flocktails-for-flock/#comments
  480. [20:21:15] <briansuda> he drop the word "microformat" around the 1 hour mark
  481. [20:21:45] * bear_mtg is now known as bear
  482. [20:23:09] <KevinMarks> you can make an asx that points a bit of time
  483. [20:23:49] <KevinMarks> eg http://homepage.mac.com/kevinmarks/scsray.asx
  484. [20:24:16] <KevinMarks> an asx is a tect file
  485. [20:24:22] <KevinMarks> text file
  486. [20:25:22] <tantek> breaking for lunch
  487. [20:26:13] <KevinMarks> give me start times and duratiosn fro the clips and I'll edit them in
  488. [20:27:40] <briansuda> my file is saving, when it is finished i'll try to get some start stops... it is at about 1 hour in when the question starts
  489. [20:29:58] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5476 * DimitriGlazkov * (+2274)
  490. [20:30:33] * limbo_ (n=me@138.202.171.133) has joined #microformats
  491. [20:30:33] <jibot> limbo_ is Eran and blogs at http://hellonline.com/blog/
  492. [20:30:34] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5477 * DimitriGlazkov * (+3) Q&A -
  493. [20:30:40] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5478 * BenWest * (+71) Examples in the wild -
  494. [20:31:06] * limbo_ is now known as limbo_usf
  495. [20:33:01] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-21-mix06-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5479 * Tantek * (+130)
  496. [20:33:47] * tantek (n=tantek@65.160.19.103) Quit ()
  497. [20:37:20] <KevinMarks> that stream is gapping too much for me at work, i'll try ti at home
  498. [20:41:08] <dglazkov> holly over at mix06 channel mentioned something about microformats.org being blocked by some(?) firewalls(?). Anybody heard anything like that?
  499. [20:42:27] <dglazkov> "our sonicwall firewall blocks microformats, it thinks its a gaming site"
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  508. [21:07:21] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
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  523. [21:55:12] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  528. [22:16:10] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  529. [22:16:26] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  531. [22:29:02] * Enric (n=Enric@adsl-70-231-177-12.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  532. [22:29:02] <jibot> Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
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  538. [22:53:55] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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  540. [22:59:32] <briansuda> 59:33 - 1:01:18 (1
  541. [23:00:01] <briansuda> sorry, 59:33 - 1:01:18 is the Q&A for microformats in the MIX06 keynote
  542. [23:00:19] <tantek> not Q&A. that's the conversation between Tim O'Reilly and Bill Gates.
  543. [23:00:27] <KevinMarks> OK
  544. [23:00:55] <briansuda> that's the long question, Tim jumps in half way, but i think 59:33 is a good start
  545. [23:01:07] * Enric (n=Enric@adsl-70-231-177-12.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  546. [23:01:11] <briansuda> i'll trim it out by itself tonight and get a transcripion for the wiki
  547. [23:01:18] <tantek> Thanks Brian!
  548. [23:01:22] <KevinMarks> i'm doing it now...
  549. [23:01:31] <imajes> hey tankek
  550. [23:01:35] <imajes> er.. tantek
  551. [23:01:37] <tantek> I distinctly remember that the microformats discussion was purely part of the conversation with Tim O'Reilly
  552. [23:01:39] <tantek> not during Q&A
  553. [23:02:01] <briansuda> Kevin: what exactly are you doing? i can do the other half.
  554. [23:02:19] <briansuda> yes, it is not Q&A it is the Tim O'Reilly conversation/Questions
  555. [23:05:02] <KevinMarks> http://homepage.mac.com/kevinmarks/mix06mf.asx
  556. [23:05:39] <KevinMarks> bandwidth here is making it cough for me - is that the right bit?
  557. [23:10:21] <briansuda> it is starting at the beginning for me with that link
  558. [23:15:39] <KevinMarks> hm
  559. [23:15:52] <KevinMarks> what are you playing it with?
  560. [23:16:10] <KevinMarks> WMP on my mac starts at that timepoint, but coughs
  561. [23:16:19] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit ()
  562. [23:16:33] <KevinMarks> do you have some minimal asx parser that just grabs the link?
  563. [23:20:46] <briansuda> i am running this out of QuickTime my Mac, Windows Media doesn't work on my machine anymore
  564. [23:20:52] <KevinMarks> ah
  565. [23:21:43] <KevinMarks> well, if you can edit it out and make a proper crossplatform mp4 or somehting instead of Windows Media, thats a win
  566. [23:22:05] <briansuda> i am almost there with the editting out the clip
  567. [23:22:15] <KevinMarks> did you get the X2V bug report, btw?
  568. [23:23:09] <briansuda> i know what the big problem is, the software assumes that if there is a Z at the end it is an OK timestamp. i just need to check it even if it does have a Z
  569. [23:23:27] <KevinMarks> OK
  570. [23:23:34] <briansuda> we had a similar problem earlier with Padding, but that was on something like a midnight, or something when we added/subtracted timezones.
  571. [23:23:48] <briansuda> i certainly know how to fix this problem, i'll see what i can do tonight about it
  572. [23:23:49] <KevinMarks> I remember that one...
  573. [23:24:06] <KevinMarks> as Ryan's generator uses Z for GMT, we may see more of them until you go to BST in a few weeks
  574. [23:26:33] * tantek (n=tantek@65.160.19.103) Quit ()
  575. [23:27:46] * tantek (n=tantek@65.160.19.104) has joined #microformats
  576. [23:28:04] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  577. [23:28:35] <briansuda> OK, i have the mp4 @2.2 meg and a mov @2.8 meg 1:54 video
  578. [23:29:04] <briansuda> where/who should i send it to, to post it on internet?
  579. [23:31:27] <briansuda> i gotta run, but if someone has extra bandwidth for this video, just email me
  580. [23:31:50] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ()
  581. [23:39:06] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) has joined #microformats
  582. [23:47:12] <tantek> hello dbaron. welcome!
  583. [23:47:33] <dbaron> hi
  584. [23:53:39] * megaman (i=megaman@ibt-clan.net) Quit (SendQ exceeded)

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