IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-05-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:10:45] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
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  20. [02:51:52] <mfbot> [[rel-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-faq&diff=0&oldid=6435 * Evan * (+2) *implies* -> ''implies''
  21. [02:54:28] <mfbot> [[rel-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-faq&diff=0&oldid=6436 * Evan * (+8) replace *something* with ''something'' globally
  22. [03:09:55] <mfbot> [[rel-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-faq&diff=0&oldid=6437 * Evan * (+1) balance quote marks
  23. [03:11:23] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  24. [03:11:23] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  30. [04:22:27] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
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  33. [05:36:09] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  40. [07:34:22] <mfbot> [[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=6438 * 07pagesdinfo * (+165) Examples in the wild -
  41. [07:47:26] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) Quit ()
  42. [07:49:28] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  43. [07:49:29] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  49. [08:05:19] * briansuda (n=briansud@wg.eicc.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  50. [08:05:19] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  51. [08:10:02] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  52. [08:10:02] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  60. [09:44:23] * Zeo (n=zeo@60.50.249.44) Quit ("What the ...")
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  62. [09:59:46] * kingryan (n=kingryan@wg.eicc.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  63. [09:59:46] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  64. [10:00:08] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  65. [10:07:09] <KevinMarks> hi ryan
  66. [10:07:34] <kingryan> hey KevinMarks
  67. [10:20:38] * briansuda (n=briansud@pub-243.nesc.ed.ac.uk) has joined #microformats
  68. [10:20:38] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  69. [10:24:49] <trovster> Getting many hits from Worldcup kickoff?
  70. [10:24:59] <briansuda> loads!
  71. [10:25:55] <briansuda> i'll try and get you a break down so you the popular countries
  72. [10:26:11] <trovster> Cool. :D
  73. [10:26:19] <trovster> http://news.yahoo.com/s/lifehacker/20060522/tc_lifehacker/worldcupstarttimesforicaletc;_ylt=AtGxuJ9LSV4YrUh3IylVeu8jtBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA-- nice :d
  74. [10:31:56] <briansuda> 655+ referrers
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  84. [12:44:36] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  85. [12:44:36] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  91. [13:04:16] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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  96. [13:33:14] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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  102. [14:34:01] * raxor (n=chatzill@68-65-87-196.snbrca.adelphia.net) has joined #microformats
  103. [14:34:01] <jibot> raxor is in southern California, near LA
  104. [14:41:39] <raxor> thats right jibot!
  105. [14:41:47] <raxor> *ding ding ding*
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  107. [14:48:19] * cgriego (n=cgriego@69.93.135.226) has joined #Microformats
  108. [14:48:19] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00)
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  118. [15:33:26] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  119. [15:44:58] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  120. [15:44:58] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  123. [15:54:28] * tantek sets mode +o briansuda
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  131. [16:06:20] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  135. [16:27:09] <jibot> bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
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  144. [17:19:29] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  145. [17:19:29] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  146. [17:19:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  151. [17:49:37] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  152. [17:49:37] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  153. [17:50:17] * valmont_ (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
  154. [17:50:27] <pnhChris> i am, i do, and i am.
  155. [18:01:46] * valmont (n=chrishol@adsl-69-232-43-129.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  157. [18:11:26] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples&diff=0&oldid=6439 * Tim White * (+758) References to People and Organizations -
  158. [18:22:17] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N121P009.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  159. [18:22:18] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
  160. [18:23:41] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  161. [18:39:39] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
  162. [18:39:39] <jibot> bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
  163. [18:47:58] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples&diff=0&oldid=6440 * Tantek * (+654) Moved extended organization example further down, and added explanatory steps and extended-address + organization-unit overlap example
  164. [18:50:02] * raxor_ is now known as raxor
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  166. [18:55:59] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=6441 * RobertBachmann * (+258) hAtom 0.2 - Datetime format (atom:<i>updated</i> and atom:<i>published</i>)
  167. [18:57:28] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
  168. [19:00:50] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=6442 * RobertBachmann * (+159) 'MAY have multiple Feed elements' -- details and viability of multiple feeds -
  169. [19:02:10] <RobertBachmann> pnhChris, got a minute?
  170. [19:02:14] * bear is now known as bear_lunch
  171. [19:02:33] <pnhChris> no, but go ahead anyway ;)
  172. [19:03:35] * valmont_ is now known as valmont
  173. [19:05:28] <RobertBachmann> I'm currently looking at your hatom tests.
  174. [19:05:28] <RobertBachmann> have you looked at my tests? <http://rbach.priv.at/repos/hatom/hatom2atom.xsl/trunk/tests/>
  175. [19:05:49] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@70-59-79-183.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  176. [19:06:37] <pnhChris> not in a little while, no
  177. [19:11:38] <pnhChris> i didn't really want to cover the content parts of hatom with mine, just examples of how multiple feeds could show up to have something to point to for discussion's sake
  178. [19:12:09] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  179. [19:12:25] <pnhChris> and i do think that ID would be a useful requirement, but i'm still not sure that would solve some of the consumption issues
  180. [19:12:39] <pnhChris> (like what if a user enters a url without a specific id present)
  181. [19:13:22] <pnhChris> ... and i meant to recheck, but i don't think the cases where i had an ID on the body (but no optional class="hfeed" got picked up by the current XSL doc
  182. [19:13:37] * PhilipAshlock_wo (n=PhilipAs@vu412-ws7.union.wwu.edu) has joined #microformats
  183. [19:15:27] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=6443 * RobertBachmann * (+104) 'MAY have multiple Feed elements' -- details and viability of multiple feeds -
  184. [19:16:53] <RobertBachmann> re: 5. How should a consuming application deal with potential changes to feeds found in a document over time ...
  185. [19:16:53] <RobertBachmann> This seems simaliar to the case were http://example.com/feed.atom returns 404.
  186. [19:20:03] <RobertBachmann> If you have <body id="foo"><div class="hfeed">...</div></body> @ http://example.com/x.html the feed:id will be http://example.com/x.html and _not_ http://example.com/x.html#foo
  187. [19:20:03] <RobertBachmann> The same is true when you have no class="hfeed"
  188. [19:22:18] <PhilipAshlock_wo> hCalendar question: the ISO8601 format has dashes in it, but when used with dashes something like the Firefox Tails extension won't pick it up. I see some hCalendar entries with dashes and some without, why the discrepancy?
  189. [19:23:32] <PhilipAshlock_wo> nevermind, Tails is picking them up. Still not sure why the dashes are left out in some cases, or maybe that's another format...
  190. [19:23:58] <tantek> Philip, either is permissible in ISO8601
  191. [19:24:01] <tantek> with or without dashes
  192. [19:24:08] * Trinity_MwM (n=Azzurra@217.201.128.160) has joined #microformats
  193. [19:24:09] <tantek> I personally prefer no dashes for brevity's sake
  194. [19:24:25] <tantek> some prefer dashes because they see it as more readable.
  195. [19:26:42] <jibot> Suw is in the UK, can be found at http://chocnvodka.blogware.com/
  196. [19:31:23] <RobertBachmann> pnhChris: ... even if you set $source-uri to <http://example.com/x.html#foo>. However I'm not sure if this is the right behaviour.
  197. [19:43:34] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=6444 * PhilipAshlock * (+201) Example -
  198. [19:44:34] <PhilipAshlock_wo> thanks, for the clarity tantek. Hopefully it transferred to the wiki well enough for others like me
  199. [19:49:25] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=6445 * RobertBachmann * (+0) Examples in the wild -
  200. [19:51:39] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
  201. [19:52:54] * Trinity_MwM (n=Azzurra@217.201.128.160) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  202. [19:53:22] <tantek> Philip looks good, but perhaps consider moving that detail to hcalendar-faq
  203. [19:53:32] <PhilipAshlock_wo> k
  204. [19:53:34] <tantek> since it is more of a tutorial/Q&A kind of thing
  205. [19:55:41] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=6446 * PhilipAshlock * (-201) Example -
  206. [20:00:28] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@70-59-79-183.mpls.qwest.net) Quit ()
  207. [20:05:52] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=6447 * PhilipAshlock * (+220) Q&A -
  208. [20:06:42] <RobertBachmann> pnhChris: Okay, thought about it. Seems to be the right behaviour.
  209. [20:06:43] <RobertBachmann> Imagine user A uses uses hAtom2Atom.xsl on <http://placenamehere.com/mf/hatom_tests/test_1a.html#foo>
  210. [20:06:43] <RobertBachmann> and user B uses h2A on <http://placenamehere.com/mf/hatom_tests/test_1a.html#>.
  211. [20:06:43] <RobertBachmann> Both users get the same feed so the value of /atom:feed/atom:id should be equal as well.
  212. [20:08:00] <gsnedders> is anyone interested in creating a microformat for bugs?
  213. [20:08:30] * schepers is now known as mashrank
  214. [20:09:44] <pnhChris> RobertBachmann: sorry.. i dont' think its similar to a 404, well.. not on the surface
  215. [20:10:16] <pnhChris> or at least, not under the current specs
  216. [20:10:41] <pnhChris> which don't force a lot of constraints on consuming apps
  217. [20:11:51] <pnhChris> for example you can currently extract 1 feed from the following URL: http://chunkysoup.net/extras/behindcs/
  218. [20:12:33] <pnhChris> though there is one feed in the page currently, it is at #posts
  219. [20:12:59] <pnhChris> but my app isn't subscribed to #posts
  220. [20:13:17] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  221. [20:13:26] <pnhChris> .. so if for whatever reason I add a second feed to that document what happens to the consuming app?
  222. [20:13:53] * bear is now known as bear_mtg
  223. [20:13:59] <pnhChris> right now with anythign that uses the XSL file it will just arbitrarily pick the first one.. but the spec doesn't really define what should happen instead
  224. [20:15:31] <RobertBachmann> yes under the current spec it would be pick the first hfeed, if your new feed comes before the feed #posts we've got a problem.
  225. [20:15:56] <RobertBachmann> s/be pick/pick up/
  226. [20:16:00] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has left #microformats
  227. [20:16:05] <pnhChris> i dunno.. these are the issues i want to discuss and see if there's a good resolution.. if requiring ID, hfeed or both is ENOUGH
  228. [20:16:50] <pnhChris> ... cause if you require both you have to find a sane way to resove someone not offering an ID
  229. [20:17:01] * mashrank is now known as scheppoint0
  230. [20:18:00] <pnhChris> its a bit easier with hacrd or hcalendar because the consuming apps know how to deal with bing fed multiple items
  231. [20:18:03] * scheppoint0 is now known as schepers
  232. [20:18:16] * schepers is now known as Ajaxulon
  233. [20:18:19] <pnhChris> being fed multiple feeds at once is going to be odd for parsers, validators, etc. etc.
  234. [20:18:29] <pnhChris> anyway.. i must get back to work
  235. [20:18:35] <pnhChris> something to think over
  236. [20:18:53] <RobertBachmann> IMO: If I subscribe to http://chunkysoup.net/extras/behindcs/ which has 1 feed (<div id="posts" class="hfeed">) the feed-id is "http://chunkysoup.net/extras/behindcs/#posts"
  237. [20:18:54] <RobertBachmann> So the consuming app should look for http://chunkysoup.net/extras/behindcs/#posts the next time
  238. [20:18:58] <pnhChris> i just made the test to get the discussion going and show some of the places where things get messy under the current spec
  239. [20:19:04] <pnhChris> ... ok
  240. [20:19:09] <pnhChris> under the current spec
  241. [20:19:15] <pnhChris> if i subscribe to #posts
  242. [20:19:24] <pnhChris> and then i redessing the site to leave out the hfeed element
  243. [20:19:29] <pnhChris> and thus #posts
  244. [20:19:38] <pnhChris> because posts is silly for a 1 entry page
  245. [20:19:55] <pnhChris> does my feed reader barf?
  246. [20:20:01] <pnhChris> cause the feed isn't found
  247. [20:20:42] * pnhChris likes 1 feed per html doc as a resolution... but really really doesn't
  248. [20:20:55] * RobertBachmann likes that too ;-)
  249. [20:21:01] <pnhChris> its the simple answer, but doesn't ever fit content (main blog and link blog, etc)
  250. [20:22:20] <RobertBachmann> IMO a page which only contains 1 entry ... and will "never" contain more than one entry should not be marked up with class="hfeed"
  251. [20:22:56] <RobertBachmann> So the whole "hfeed is implied" stuff isn't good IMO, since 1 entry != 1 feed with one entry
  252. [20:24:08] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
  253. [20:25:27] <tantek> Robert, I'm not sure about that
  254. [20:25:33] * Ajaxulon is now known as schepers
  255. [20:25:44] <tantek> btw, Robert, Chris, did you take a look at the "source" stuff in Atom?
  256. [20:26:10] <tantek> it's there to allow multiple feeds to be combined in to a single feed, while retaining the fidelity of where it came from / source etc.
  257. [20:27:16] <tantek> gsnedders regarding a microformat for bugs, what did you have in mind?
  258. [20:27:32] <tantek> allow people to simply blog a bug about a product and then have it picked up?
  259. [20:27:48] <tantek> One could consider a bug report to be a kind of review
  260. [20:27:49] <gsnedders> tantek: more for bug tracking apps
  261. [20:28:04] <tantek> why are they necessary for bug tracking apps?
  262. [20:28:06] <dglazkov> is it like a to-do list?
  263. [20:28:13] <tantek> in a centralized system you already have everything you need right?
  264. [20:28:15] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  265. [20:28:29] <tantek> microformats are interesting when you want to publishing things on the open web and have them work together in a decentralized manner
  266. [20:28:42] <tantek> so I could see a bug microformat being useful for a decentralized bug database
  267. [20:28:55] <tantek> basically, what's the use case?
  268. [20:29:15] <tantek> or are you simply trying to make the markup that web-based bug tracking apps generate more semantic?
  269. [20:29:21] <tantek> (e.g. bugzilla)
  270. [20:30:26] <gsnedders> I've more thought of microformats as a way of computers being able to gather data from pages, regardless of generator, and uh... do something with the data
  271. [20:31:48] * bear_mtg is now known as bear
  272. [20:32:37] <gsnedders> in the same way, surely each blog is centralised, so therefore what's the need of hAtom?
  273. [20:34:26] <gsnedders> but tantek, now you mention it, I do see how in essence it could actually just be done using hReview
  274. [20:36:09] <gsnedders> going back to what my thought of what a microformat is, surely it is equally regardless of whether all the data is in 2 sites, or 20,000,000 sites?
  275. [20:37:05] <RobertBachmann> tantek: I'm aware of atom:source. I think it's quite handy for agregators. For example <http://feeds.technorati.com/feed/posts/tag/hatom> could use atom:source to denoted the source feed of each post.
  276. [20:37:28] <RobertBachmann> (If it would be Atom not RSS)
  277. [20:44:12] <RobertBachmann> Regarding: 1 feed w/ 1 enty != 1 entry
  278. [20:44:13] <RobertBachmann> I might like to subscribe to <http://theryanking.com/blog/archives/category/beer/> althought it only contains only one entry but why would I like
  279. [20:44:13] <RobertBachmann> to subscribe to <http://theryanking.com/blog/archives/2005/03/13/no-more-lager/>? It's just one entry.
  280. [20:46:55] <RobertBachmann> s/denoted/denote/
  281. [20:47:34] <tantek> gsnedders, hAtom is for the blog to share with other services, like search engines
  282. [20:47:47] <tantek> which look at many blogs
  283. [20:48:02] <tantek> whereas I don't know of any bug databases on the web that look at other bug databases on the web
  284. [20:48:14] <tantek> or any web-wide bug database search engines
  285. [20:48:19] <gsnedders> so they can cross-reference each other?
  286. [20:48:20] <tantek> (which would be quite interesting)
  287. [20:48:21] <bewest> MBB: MetaBuggaBase
  288. [20:48:30] <tantek> does that really exist?
  289. [20:48:33] <bewest> no
  290. [20:48:38] <bewest> I made it up
  291. [20:48:45] <gsnedders> nice name, though :)
  292. [20:48:47] * bewest goes back to lurking
  293. [20:49:11] <bewest> such a thing wouldn't be desirable, in most cases
  294. [20:49:14] <dglazkov> actually, this is something a Web app could use
  295. [20:49:15] * tantek is convinced that bug reports are a just a specific use of hReview
  296. [20:49:26] <bewest> do you want to publish your bugs so the whole world can see them?
  297. [20:49:31] <tantek> totally
  298. [20:49:35] <dglazkov> absolutely
  299. [20:49:37] <tantek> people blog bug reports all the time!
  300. [20:49:45] <bewest> hmmm
  301. [20:49:54] <tantek> all you have to do is agree on something like tag them with "bugreport"
  302. [20:50:05] <tantek> and then you can aggregate all hReviews that are "bugreport"s
  303. [20:50:13] <dglazkov> and rating is criticality?
  304. [20:50:15] <gsnedders> tantek: as I said above, I now see how hReview could be
  305. [20:50:24] <gsnedders> used for that
  306. [20:50:35] <tantek> yep. the key is to start with hReview and see how far it will get you
  307. [20:50:40] <bewest> so you'd allow anyone to access your internal bug report database?
  308. [20:50:46] <tantek> if it gets you 80% of the way there, that's probably sufficient for trying things out
  309. [20:50:56] <tantek> bewest, what makes you think it is internal?
  310. [20:51:06] <tantek> people are blogging bugs out in the open all the time on various products
  311. [20:51:16] <bewest> ok
  312. [20:51:20] <tantek> I would love to query for all the bugreports on the new MacBook for example
  313. [20:51:29] <bewest> yeah, that'd be nice, actually
  314. [20:51:29] <gsnedders> tantek: I'll give a heads up when I reach any problems
  315. [20:51:34] <bewest> hmm
  316. [20:51:37] <tantek> think about it like a world wide distributed consumer reports kind of functionality
  317. [20:51:48] <bewest> yes, but that's more of a review
  318. [20:52:02] <gsnedders> but as dglazkov, what do you for criticality?
  319. [20:52:07] <tantek> but imagine checking bugreport instances against newly released products or updates
  320. [20:52:11] <gsnedders> *dglazkov said
  321. [20:52:12] <tantek> before buying etc.
  322. [20:52:13] <bewest> yes, that' be neat
  323. [20:52:20] * bewest stops being a stick in the mud
  324. [20:52:22] <gsnedders> I really am too tired.
  325. [20:52:37] <tantek> gsnedders, which bug database tool are you adding this markup to?
  326. [20:52:45] <gsnedders> tantek: I'm writing my own.
  327. [20:53:21] <tantek> cool
  328. [20:53:22] <pnhChris> RobertBachmann: you might subscribe to soemthign that's just one "entry" because you want to wath the page change
  329. [20:53:36] <tantek> consider patching the templates for bugzilla
  330. [20:53:43] <bewest> or mantis
  331. [20:53:49] <tantek> or trac
  332. [20:53:52] <bewest> or sugarcrm
  333. [20:53:53] <gsnedders> tantek: can I PM you the basic wireframe I've got? I don't really want the URL getting out there
  334. [20:53:54] <pnhChris> if you subscribe to http://chunkysoup.net/extras/zeitgeist/ you'll see the updates every month
  335. [20:54:24] <tantek> gsnedders, you can wait until you're ok with the URL getting out there
  336. [20:54:40] * tantek is a little neck deep in coding right now...
  337. [20:54:41] <gsnedders> tantek: part of my problem is most of them have some usability flaw or the other
  338. [20:54:46] * pnhChris is too
  339. [20:54:53] <tantek> gsnedders, agreed
  340. [20:54:56] <dglazkov> what are you guys working on?
  341. [20:54:59] <pnhChris> but people keep using my name on irc forcing me to look over :P
  342. [20:55:17] <gsnedders> tantek: and I'm really working on it from the ground up for usability and accessibility.
  343. [20:55:43] <tantek> i can understand that. still, it is a big undertaking.
  344. [20:55:50] <gsnedders> very much so.
  345. [20:55:58] <bewest> mantis is surprisingly small, iirc
  346. [20:56:01] <tantek> did you already try to contribute to existing open source bug tools to see if you could make them more usable and accessible
  347. [20:56:08] <tantek> ?
  348. [20:56:25] <tantek> my guess is that most would more than welcome such improvements
  349. [20:57:19] <dglazkov> have you guys seen my xfn+hCard question on the list?
  350. [20:58:22] <bewest> re netsquared?
  351. [20:58:40] <gsnedders> I didn't try, but I thought about doing so. I am most certainly doing somethings differently. I pretty much felt for most of the existing PHP ones (I'd've probably contributed to trac, if I knew python), too much needed to be done from a clean start, to do what I really wanted to achive.
  352. [20:59:13] * Trinity_MwM (n=Azzurra@217.201.166.23) has joined #microformats
  353. [20:59:19] <dglazkov> http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-May/004115.html
  354. [20:59:23] <dglazkov> this one
  355. [20:59:57] <tantek> DG, I thought it was very cool
  356. [21:01:13] <gsnedders> I currently have a June 1st deadline for RC1, but I very much doubt I'll make it. I'm also under very little obligation to make it. I'd much prefer to reach RC1 with a well coded script, instead of something that was very buggy and hard to understand what it was doing.
  357. [21:01:21] <dglazkov> what do you think of implicitly adding an extra span around "a" for an hCard? Am I misleading the content authors? Or do we care?
  358. [21:01:34] <tantek> dglazkov, you might want to offer a few options for that
  359. [21:01:45] <tantek> e.g. many references to people in blog posts will actually be citations
  360. [21:01:56] <tantek> thus it makes sense to use <cite> as a wrapper instead of <span> in that case
  361. [21:02:12] <tantek> or if it is a person in a blogroll, then use <li> as the wrapper instead of <span>
  362. [21:02:18] <dglazkov> ooh, cool idea! what about <address> for "me"?
  363. [21:02:54] <bewest> so then it's up to the application code to determine what to wrap it in
  364. [21:03:30] <tantek> <address> should only be used for the contact information for the page
  365. [21:04:02] * pnhChris is now known as pnhWorkin
  366. [21:04:09] <gsnedders> anyhow, I'm off for tonight. My sister is coming over (late) tomorrow for several days, so that'll steal my time. I should have something to say about my attempts with hReview tomorrow, but I'm making no promises.
  367. [21:04:10] <tantek> e.g. if you have a section in your blogroll where you list links to your profile on other services, you should just use <li> for those
  368. [21:04:21] <tantek> gsnedders, looking forward to it
  369. [21:04:33] * gsnedders (n=geoffrey@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  370. [21:04:35] <tantek> and if you come up with questions while trying it out, feel free to ask here
  371. [21:04:39] <tantek> just missed him
  372. [21:07:58] <RobertBachmann> pnhChris: Okay, I see your point. I might want to subscribe to a single entry to see if it changes. Nevertheless a single entry stays a single entry for me.
  373. [21:07:59] <RobertBachmann> The good news is hAtom2Atom has xsl:param $implicit-feed = 0 | 1. So it doesn't realy matter what I think. ;-)
  374. [21:08:35] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
  375. [21:09:29] <RobertBachmann> Anyway, it would be cool if we could make a hAtom IRC meetup.
  376. [21:10:26] <tantek> Robert, how's the output of the conversion of my page? http://tantek.com/
  377. [21:10:33] <tantek> it should have sufficient hAtom to work
  378. [21:12:00] <KevinMarks> markp's is hAtom too
  379. [21:12:14] * KevinMarks looks sheepish
  380. [21:17:27] <RobertBachmann> Luke Arno's proxy is currently unavailable (error 500)
  381. [21:17:59] <RobertBachmann> results look quite good: <http://pastebin.com/733849> besides /atom:feed/atom:updated/
  382. [21:20:25] * cgriego (n=cgriego@69.93.135.226) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  383. [21:20:53] <RobertBachmann> tantek: the datetimes for "agent training program 1 & 2" do not have a timezone offset
  384. [21:24:12] <tantek> hmmm...
  385. [21:24:21] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  386. [21:25:04] <RobertBachmann> and you have to add use the classes "entry-content" and "published" for your "agent training program" posts
  387. [21:25:38] <tantek> ah, yes, those are pre-hAtom posts ;)
  388. [21:29:13] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  389. [21:32:31] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  390. [21:46:00] * RobertBachmann sent mail to uf-discuss re: hAtom IRC meetup. Would be happy if many intressted folks could join.
  391. [21:57:23] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) has joined #microformats
  392. [21:59:31] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N121P009.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
  393. [22:23:42] * PhilipAshlock_wo (n=PhilipAs@vu412-ws7.union.wwu.edu) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  394. [22:24:00] * PhilipAshlock_wo (n=PhilipAs@vu412-ws7.union.wwu.edu) has joined #microformats
  395. [22:25:23] * raxor (n=chatzill@65.242.36.253) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
  396. [22:55:37] * Trinity_MwM (n=Azzurra@217.201.166.23) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  397. [23:05:39] <mfbot> [[Talk:page-last-modified-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:page-last-modified-examples * 1148427385 * (+5596)
  398. [23:06:15] <mfbot> [[Talk:attention-formats]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:attention-formats * 1148427385 * (+5596)
  399. [23:06:31] <mfbot> [[Talk:mflogbot]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:mflogbot * 1148427385 * (+5596)
  400. [23:07:07] <mfbot> [[Talk:rel-directory]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:rel-directory * 1148427385 * (+5596)
  401. [23:07:26] * briansuda (n=briansud@82-41-20-200.cable.ubr03.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  402. [23:07:26] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  403. [23:07:27] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:1148427385" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  404. [23:07:43] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:rel-directory": spam
  405. [23:07:49] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:mflogbot": spam
  406. [23:07:56] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:attention-formats": spam
  407. [23:08:01] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:page-last-modified-examples": spam
  408. [23:08:18] <tantek> another 2 minute spam block and cleanup record. :D
  409. [23:08:32] <briansuda> tantek, i just wanted to check in and say all the conferences are going well
  410. [23:08:38] <tantek> hey Brian
  411. [23:08:40] <tantek> great!
  412. [23:08:45] <tantek> how was your talk
  413. [23:08:48] <tantek> and Molly's talk
  414. [23:08:53] <briansuda> mine is tomorrow
  415. [23:08:55] <tantek> and Rohit's poster session?
  416. [23:08:57] <tantek> oh cool
  417. [23:09:08] <briansuda> Molly had to cancel, so we MIGHT take her place, not sure
  418. [23:09:18] <briansuda> i met Rohit, the poster is tomorrow as well
  419. [23:09:24] <tantek> ah ok
  420. [23:09:32] <tantek> oh no about Molly
  421. [23:09:35] <tantek> that's too bad
  422. [23:09:42] <tantek> yes, you and Ryan should totally take her place
  423. [23:10:06] <briansuda> Ryan and i also met with some guys from UKOLN and they have a conference in 3 weeks and will be pushing for all the UK schools to mark-up their DIRs with hCard (like Uni of Bath_
  424. [23:10:15] <tantek> excellent
  425. [23:10:37] <briansuda> Molly emailed me to see if i would, and i offered, because we have plenty of material from XTECH, but no word from her end yet
  426. [23:10:57] <tantek> please let them know they can use the http://feeds.technorati.com/contact/URL links as well, as we're doing our best to keep that up and running and fast.
  427. [23:11:38] <tantek> and trying to take some of the load off of your co.uk box
  428. [23:11:38] <briansuda> yes! i have been slammed with http://worldcupkickoff.com and everything seems to be working.
  429. [23:12:01] <tantek> great!
  430. [23:12:33] <briansuda> it was mentioned on LIFEHACKER and on Yahoo!
  431. [23:12:35] <briansuda> http://news.yahoo.com/s/lifehacker/20060522/tc_lifehacker/worldcupstarttimesforicaletc;_ylt=AtGxuJ9LSV4YrUh3IylVeu8jtBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--
  432. [23:12:58] <tantek> that's awesome
  433. [23:13:20] <tantek> add that to the hCalendar wiki page, in the entry for the worldcupkickoff
  434. [23:13:34] <briansuda> i also got to me Dave Raggett, the man behind HTML TIDY - were would we be without that!
  435. [23:13:39] <tantek> (and put in a quote, since the news.yahoo.com URLs self destruct in like two weeks I think)
  436. [23:13:57] <tantek> Dave Raggett is much more than the man behind HTML TIDY
  437. [23:14:36] <briansuda> Yeah, we hung out at XTECH and now at www2006 - his current thing is SLIDY which is a sort of S5
  438. [23:14:37] <tantek> note the lead editor here: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
  439. [23:15:06] <briansuda> interesting, he never mentioned that.
  440. [23:15:12] <tantek> he is quite modest
  441. [23:15:20] <tantek> as most truly great people are
  442. [23:15:51] <tantek> he is definitely one of those people without whom the web would not be what it is
  443. [23:16:41] <briansuda> good to know that i managed to accidentally fall into the right crowd
  444. [23:16:53] <briansuda> i'll let you know how things go in the next few days. I'll definitely check out the poster tomorrow
  445. [23:17:25] <tantek> yeah, I'm bummed that I missed XTech and WWWYYYY this year
  446. [23:17:38] <tantek> but I've been heads down writing some very critical code
  447. [23:18:01] <tantek> with any luck you'll see something in a few days
  448. [23:18:19] <Atamido_> :)
  449. [23:18:21] <briansuda> looking forward to it
  450. [23:19:41] <tantek> please send my regrets to the BlogPulse / Weblogging Ecosystem folks
  451. [23:20:05] <tantek> i've been very bad and blowing off pretty much all manner of conferences, many (most?) emails etc.
  452. [23:20:20] <tantek> as is the price of focus sometimes
  453. [23:21:10] <briansuda> i think their workshop is tomorrow (which is the same time as my presentation) but i will pass along your regrets if/when i see them
  454. [23:22:05] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit (Connection timed out)
  455. [23:22:18] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=6448 * Brian * (+854) added text from the yahoo site for world cup kickoff
  456. [23:30:03] * briansuda (n=briansud@82-41-20-200.cable.ubr03.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ()
  457. [23:43:54] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
  458. [23:51:57] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) Quit ()

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