IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-05-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [02:09:18] <mfbot>
[[location-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=location-formats&diff=0&oldid=6449 * Satoru * (+56) Location Formats -
- [02:12:19] <mfbot>
[[location-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=location-formats&diff=0&oldid=6450 * Satoru * (+72) Location Formats -
- [02:14:06] <mfbot>
[[location-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=location-formats&diff=0&oldid=6451 * Satoru * (+1) ISO6709 -
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- [02:37:07] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6452 * Satoru * (+421) radius/zoom -
- [02:37:58] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6453 * Satoru * (+1) ISO6709 -
- [02:43:29] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6454 * Satoru * (+76) ISO6709 -
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- [04:16:30] <jibot>
hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
- [04:17:48] <gsnedders>
?def gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
- [04:17:49] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [04:51:02] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [04:55:33] <gsnedders>
this room is getting colder and colder…
- [05:01:31] * gsnedders wonders what exams I have today… hopefully not Latin…
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- [05:46:25] <gsnedders>
what's the best way to mark up the table of the data like priority, reporter, etc at http://trac.wordpress.org/ticket/2277? I was thinking just doing it how they do it, using id and header attributes on a table.
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- [07:04:27] <gsnedders>
tantek: what would I use for the "item" for using hReview for bugs? The product name?
- [07:09:02] <gsnedders>
tantek: and how would you show the priority? the rating?
- [07:09:05] <leftjustified>
gsnedders: could an app not have an hCard for hReview:item?
- [07:09:42] <gsnedders>
leftjustified: but still, what would I have in that hCard?
- [07:12:20] <leftjustified>
gsnedders: class="org fn" seems sensible for the makers of the app, but I can't find a suitable example and retract my suggestion for the time being ;)
- [07:12:46] <gsnedders>
I think having the product name and version would be sensible
- [07:12:58] <leftjustified>
gsnedders: even 'org fn' would become difficult quickly; eg: sourceforge projects
- [07:13:00] <gsnedders>
as that's what you're reporting the bug for, therefore what you are writing the bug on
- [07:13:33] <leftjustified>
gsnedders: version number is a must, otherwise it's almost useless
- [07:14:58] <KevinMarks>
you could rate a priority tag
- [07:15:24] <gsnedders>
the more I think about what I suggest, the more logical it seems.
- [07:15:43] <gsnedders>
I really shouldn't just braindump everything in IRC without giving it 5 minutes thought :P
- [07:16:19] <gsnedders>
for the rating a higher number indicates a better rating, therefore higher priority?
- [07:17:43] <leftjustified>
gsnedders: makes sense. so long as the is implementers stick to an agreed upper and lower bounds (like the 1.0-5.0 currently in the spec)
- [07:35:17] <gsnedders>
what are we meant to do for replies to reviews?
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- [09:11:48] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [10:01:16] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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- [10:13:14] * briansuda sitting in session about "Microformats proposal for interoperable widgets"
- [10:14:18] <briansuda>
wants to use Microformats in HTML to describe widgets
- [10:15:19] <briansuda>
plist files don't have everything, but Microfrormats bridge that gap
- [10:16:46] <briansuda>
http://presentations.lawver.net/standards/a_microformat_and_proposal_for/
- [10:18:11] <briansuda>
demoing AIM Fight Widget
- [10:20:48] <gsnedders>
at www2006?
- [10:22:32] <briansuda>
gsnedders, yes www2006
- [10:22:41] <gsnedders>
so close, yet so far...
- [10:22:53] * gsnedders is over in Fife
- [10:25:12] <mfbot>
[[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=6455 * Brian * (+162) Added A Microformat and Proposal For Interoperable Widgets
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- [11:12:29] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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- [13:12:06] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [13:51:55] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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- [13:52:43] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [14:20:23] <jibot>
Hixie is the iron fist of standards compliance
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- [14:45:34] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
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- [15:04:01] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=6456 * RobertBachmann * (+54) Tools & Test Cases & Additional Research - Added a link to hg.microformats.org
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- [15:06:04] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [15:23:43] <jibot>
Hixie is the iron fist of standards compliance
- [15:24:00] <dglazkov>
hi Hixie
- [15:24:09] <Hixie>
hi
- [15:24:32] <dglazkov>
are you in SF next week?
- [15:28:09] <Hixie>
i'll be in the bay area probably, why?
- [15:28:47] <dglazkov>
I was wondering if I could buy you dinner. or a beer. whichever you prefer
- [15:30:02] <dglazkov>
talk about XBL, HTML5, and the meaning of life
- [15:31:07] <Hixie>
sure thing
- [15:31:09] <Hixie>
how long you around for?
- [15:31:21] <Hixie>
maybe we can get tantek and others in on dinner too
- [15:31:34] <dglazkov>
that would be great
- [15:31:54] <dglazkov>
I am in the area for NetSquared conference
- [15:32:13] <Hixie>
cool
- [15:32:18] <dglazkov>
arriving on Monday afternoon, leaving Thursday morning
- [15:32:53] <Hixie>
hm
- [15:33:44] <Hixie>
tuesday evening works best for me
- [15:33:51] <Hixie>
if we want to do dinner
- [15:35:22] <dglazkov>
tuesday evening should work
- [15:36:49] * gsnedders wishes I could get down to Edinburgh tonight
- [15:37:01] <gsnedders>
but then I'd have the problem of being too young to go into a pub :P
- [15:37:17] <dglazkov>
what would be the best location?
- [15:38:25] <dglazkov>
I am staying in Hilton Santa Clara, but I have transportation
- [15:40:49] <dglazkov>
http://local.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en&q=4949+Great+America+Parkway,+Santa+Clara,+CA&ll=37.402892,-121.977768&spn=0.454366,0.685272&om=1
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- [15:50:26] <Hixie>
dglazkov: i don't know the city well. get tantek to propose a time and place :-)
- [15:50:30] <Hixie>
or ryan
- [15:50:34] <Hixie>
or someone from the city
- [15:50:58] <dglazkov>
sure
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- [15:58:48] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [15:59:00] <dglazkov>
speak of the devil
- [15:59:13] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [15:59:30] <dglazkov>
¡Hola! tantek
- [15:59:52] * dglazkov has been watching way too much "Dora the Explorer" -- comes with having a toddler
- [16:03:12] <gsnedders>
tantek: I managed to do most of getting hReview to work for bugs with not too much difficulty
- [16:03:39] <tantek>
gsnedders, that is great news
- [16:04:38] <gsnedders>
tantek: http://pastebin.com/735265 - incomplete, but getting there
- [16:08:18] <gsnedders>
just about my only question that went unanswered is what to do with comments on the "review"?
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- [16:09:25] <tantek>
greetings
- [16:09:34] <tantek>
yes, would be great to do a microformats dinner next week in SF
- [16:09:49] <tantek>
i will be at the Netsquared conference at least one day
- [16:09:55] * tantek steps out to get some breakfast
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- [16:36:42] <jibot>
bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
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- [16:41:29] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
- [16:41:33] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
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- [17:02:37] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
- [17:04:15] <mfbot>
[[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=6457 * RobertBachmann * (+0) People on irc - Robert Bachmann: new office hours
- [17:05:07] <RobertBachmann>
No IRC office hour for me today.
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- [17:07:22] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [17:12:23] <jibot>
hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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- [17:12:39] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [17:24:51] <bewest>
gsnedders: everyone is arriving at work?
- [17:26:39] <tantek>
gsnedders, re: comments on bugs, those could be represented as reviews of the bug itself
- [17:27:22] <tantek>
though you should also check out the brainstorming that is going on on conversation formats, e.g. irc logs etc.
- [17:27:48] <tantek>
as that might be a better model for the comments on a bug, since they are more of a conversation typically, rather than disjoint comments
- [17:28:18] <tantek>
in addition you could also markup the comments on a bug as hAtom so that one could subscribe to a synthesized feed of comments on a bug
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- [17:30:50] <tantek>
what RyanKing and I have been calling synthesyndication. we're calling the process of actually doing the synthesization is called syndisynthesization. Neither of those two words show up in a Google search, so I'm pretty sure we can claim to have invented them. ;)
- [17:32:42] <tantek>
synthesyndication. definition: the process of syndicating content but with a synthetic feed that is synthesized from the content (e.g. content that is marked up with the hAtom microformat that is then transformed to the Atom feed format).
- [17:35:49] * kingryan (n=kingryan@wg.eicc.co.uk) Quit ()
- [17:36:07] <KevinMarks>
hang on, isn't the hAtom a feed, and the transformation to legacy xml formats just a temporary patch until feedreaders add hAtom support?
- [17:36:10] <KevinMarks>
;)
- [17:37:08] <tantek>
syndisynthesization. definition: the actual process of synthesizing a feed from content that is marked up to do so (e.g. for content that is marked up with hAtom, there is an XSLT transform which synthesizes an Atom feed. That process of synthesizing, in particular synthesizing a feed for syndication is called syndisynthesizing.)
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- [17:37:54] <tantek>
variants: syndisynthesis, syndisynthesize, syndisynthesizes, syndisynthesizing
- [17:38:32] <tantek>
variants for synthesyndication: synthesyndicate, synthesyndicates, synthesyndicating
- [17:43:00] <KevinMarks>
just read that over a dance beat
- [17:54:00] <bewest>
what about synthecation
- [17:55:06] <bewest>
it's evidently taken... there exists a synthecation.com
- [17:56:05] <tantek>
and it rhymes with the rather unpleasant **fecation term
- [17:56:43] <gsnedders>
yeah, I had thought about using hAtom for the comments
- [17:57:29] <tantek>
basically, hAtom for the comments is a good start
- [17:57:48] <gsnedders>
and again, just shout when I hit a problem?
- [17:57:57] <tantek>
but they might need some additional semantics to indicate that they are a conversation about the bug
- [17:58:00] <tantek>
yes
- [17:58:20] <gsnedders>
the first obvious thing is the lack of a title for each comment
- [17:58:59] <tantek>
each comment has a permalink though right?
- [17:59:07] <gsnedders>
yeah.
- [17:59:10] <tantek>
(probably with a # fragment identifier, but that is fine)
- [17:59:47] <tantek>
is there a header in the UI for each comment, e.g. "Comment #2 by joecontributor"
- [18:01:11] <gsnedders>
I was thinking of doing something a little more forumesque: having a column of commentators, and a column of comments
- [18:01:39] <tantek>
in either case, you have effectively a semantic heading for each comment
- [18:01:45] <tantek>
even if it is just the name of the commenter
- [18:01:49] <tantek>
or name + date they said it
- [18:02:07] <tantek>
"Joecontributor (2006-05-24):"
- [18:02:18] <tantek>
that whole thing could be marked up as the entry-title
- [18:02:35] <tantek>
with of course the author being marked up inside, as well as the updated date
- [18:02:52] <gsnedders>
yeah.
- [18:03:08] <gsnedders>
the title was the only thing I could see with any problems
- [18:03:24] <tantek>
the point is, there is no explicit title given by the comment author
- [18:03:47] <tantek>
you are simply synthesizing a title for each comment on-the-fly using the comment author and the datetime that the comment was posted
- [18:04:22] <gsnedders>
yeah.
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- [18:04:38] <gsnedders>
do you make the date human readable, or machine readable?
- [18:04:46] <tantek>
both ;)
- [18:04:49] <gsnedders>
being the title, it'd be sensible for it to be human readable
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- [18:05:14] <gsnedders>
(then of course you have the date tag itself, being specific, <abbr> and all)
- [18:05:18] <tantek>
yes, you make it human readable in the content, and machine readable in the abbr title
- [18:05:21] <tantek>
right
- [18:05:28] <tantek>
the point is you can nest that inside the title
- [18:05:36] <tantek>
so that you don't have to repeat the date data
- [18:05:36] <gsnedders>
right.
- [18:05:45] <tantek>
DRY and all
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- [18:06:08] <gsnedders>
updated is required, though
- [18:06:38] <gsnedders>
duh. just include the class there.
- [18:09:16] <gsnedders>
maybe I go stare out the window and see how long it'll take my sister to arrive :P
- [18:10:39] <gsnedders>
meh. boring. I don't even know what type of car she's hired :P
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- [18:29:31] <gsnedders>
well, g'night
- [18:29:37] <gsnedders>
although I may be on later :P
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- [20:19:18] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
- [20:35:51] <gsnedders>
to quote myself earlier: "I was thinking of doing something a little moreforumesque: having a column of commentators, and a column of comment"
- [20:36:07] <gsnedders>
the question is, is this data really tabular?
- [20:36:16] <badd>
hey guys.. any suggestions for a good shopping cart software..?
- [20:40:13] <hober>
gsnedders: <ol> <li> <cite> ... </cite> <q> ... </q> </li> ... </ol>
- [20:40:50] <gsnedders>
hober: but you aren't really quoting them, as it is the content in it's original context
- [20:46:54] <badd>
x-cart..?
- [20:48:17] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) has joined #microformats
- [20:48:17] <jibot>
evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
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- [20:48:23] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00)
- [20:48:29] <evanpro>
yay me
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- [20:56:26] <tantek>
gsnedders - you are quoting them because the page itself represents the bug, not the commenter
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- [21:22:00] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [21:24:17] <bewest>
badd: this isn't really a place dedicated to that kind of discussion... having said that, I've tried several shopping carts including oscommerce, zen, and x-cart
- [21:25:01] <bewest>
badd: so far I like x-cart the best purely because it uses smarty templating... however in my experience they are all awful... x-cart has TERRIBLE html predating 3.2
- [21:25:12] <badd>
there is nobody in chat rooms like e-commerce or so..:P
- [21:25:12] <bewest>
badd: (html 3.2 that is)
- [21:25:20] * pnhChris hates when he gets a cart with wobbly wheels that is hard to steer so you keep bumping into the isles
- [21:25:25] <bewest>
badd: in addition, I would recommend the following:
- [21:25:34] <bewest>
badd: go with a 3rd party hosted solution
- [21:25:37] <bewest>
they are experts
- [21:25:48] <bewest>
badd: get a yahoo cart or even better an ebay store
- [21:26:02] <badd>
on the x-cart website it says xhtml 1.0..
- [21:26:13] <bewest>
well... then they changed it since I looked at it 2 months ago
- [21:26:29] <bewest>
when I used it 2 - 3 months ago it was html 3.2
- [21:26:37] <badd>
mmm.. the shopping cart is going to be implemented on the college website..
- [21:26:53] <badd>
not sure that ebay is a good solution..;)
- [21:28:12] <badd>
bewest: did u have any security issues wit x-cart..?
- [21:30:07] <bewest>
no one wants their shopping cart to be on someone else's site
- [21:30:12] <bewest>
they never take my advice
- [21:30:13] <bewest>
heh
- [21:30:38] <bewest>
most shopping carts I've seen implemented on site look terrible, or act terrible
- [21:30:45] <bewest>
far better to let ebay do it
- [21:31:12] <bewest>
as far as security goes... I didn't even pay any attention to that
- [21:31:19] <badd>
yes, im afraid that it's not gonna work well on the website..:)
- [21:31:28] <bewest>
my boss overpromised and underpriced the job
- [21:32:31] <pnhChris>
h8@boss
- [21:32:59] <pnhChris>
sorry.. just one of those weeks .. /goes back to lurking
- [21:33:17] <bewest>
h8@ex-boss now :-)
- [21:33:30] <bewest>
<3@new-boss
- [21:33:38] <pnhChris>
and yahoo isn't a bad solution
- [21:33:48] <pnhChris>
i'd probably look there before ebay
- [21:33:52] <pnhChris>
but whatever
- [21:33:53] <bewest>
I agree
- [21:34:20] <bewest>
their platform has been around for ages and has been thoroughly tested
- [21:34:26] <pnhChris>
though i've been itching to play with zendcart next time i'm in need
- [21:34:37] <bewest>
zen cart has a nasty templating system
- [21:34:40] <pnhChris>
er.. s/zend/zen/
- [21:35:16] <pnhChris>
well, maybe that's what i'd see when i did get a chance to look at it
- [21:35:18] <pnhChris>
but haven't
- [21:39:46] <badd>
im not sure that yahoo is approriate to sell items from college bookstore..
- [21:41:23] <badd>
oh well, i guess its not the right place to discuss this topic..:P;)
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