IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-05-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  15. [02:09:18] <mfbot> [[location-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=location-formats&diff=0&oldid=6449 * Satoru * (+56) Location Formats -
  16. [02:12:19] <mfbot> [[location-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=location-formats&diff=0&oldid=6450 * Satoru * (+72) Location Formats -
  17. [02:14:06] <mfbot> [[location-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=location-formats&diff=0&oldid=6451 * Satoru * (+1) ISO6709 -
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  21. [02:37:07] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6452 * Satoru * (+421) radius/zoom -
  22. [02:37:58] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6453 * Satoru * (+1) ISO6709 -
  23. [02:43:29] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6454 * Satoru * (+76) ISO6709 -
  24. [03:02:41] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  35. [04:16:30] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  36. [04:17:48] <gsnedders> ?def gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  37. [04:17:49] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  45. [04:51:02] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  46. [04:51:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  47. [04:55:33] <gsnedders> this room is getting colder and colder…
  48. [05:01:31] * gsnedders wonders what exams I have today… hopefully not Latin…
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  53. [05:46:25] <gsnedders> what's the best way to mark up the table of the data like priority, reporter, etc at http://trac.wordpress.org/ticket/2277? I was thinking just doing it how they do it, using id and header attributes on a table.
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  58. [07:04:27] <gsnedders> tantek: what would I use for the "item" for using hReview for bugs? The product name?
  59. [07:09:02] <gsnedders> tantek: and how would you show the priority? the rating?
  60. [07:09:05] <leftjustified> gsnedders: could an app not have an hCard for hReview:item?
  61. [07:09:42] <gsnedders> leftjustified: but still, what would I have in that hCard?
  62. [07:12:20] <leftjustified> gsnedders: class="org fn" seems sensible for the makers of the app, but I can't find a suitable example and retract my suggestion for the time being ;)
  63. [07:12:46] <gsnedders> I think having the product name and version would be sensible
  64. [07:12:58] <leftjustified> gsnedders: even 'org fn' would become difficult quickly; eg: sourceforge projects
  65. [07:13:00] <gsnedders> as that's what you're reporting the bug for, therefore what you are writing the bug on
  66. [07:13:33] <leftjustified> gsnedders: version number is a must, otherwise it's almost useless
  67. [07:14:58] <KevinMarks> you could rate a priority tag
  68. [07:15:24] <gsnedders> the more I think about what I suggest, the more logical it seems.
  69. [07:15:43] <gsnedders> I really shouldn't just braindump everything in IRC without giving it 5 minutes thought :P
  70. [07:16:19] <gsnedders> for the rating a higher number indicates a better rating, therefore higher priority?
  71. [07:17:43] <leftjustified> gsnedders: makes sense. so long as the is implementers stick to an agreed upper and lower bounds (like the 1.0-5.0 currently in the spec)
  72. [07:35:17] <gsnedders> what are we meant to do for replies to reviews?
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  79. [09:11:48] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  84. [10:01:16] * briansuda (n=briansud@wg.eicc.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  85. [10:01:16] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  86. [10:03:34] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@wg.eicc.co.uk) has joined #microformats
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  89. [10:13:14] * briansuda sitting in session about "Microformats proposal for interoperable widgets"
  90. [10:14:18] <briansuda> wants to use Microformats in HTML to describe widgets
  91. [10:15:19] <briansuda> plist files don't have everything, but Microfrormats bridge that gap
  92. [10:16:46] <briansuda> http://presentations.lawver.net/standards/a_microformat_and_proposal_for/
  93. [10:18:11] <briansuda> demoing AIM Fight Widget
  94. [10:20:48] <gsnedders> at www2006?
  95. [10:22:32] <briansuda> gsnedders, yes www2006
  96. [10:22:41] <gsnedders> so close, yet so far...
  97. [10:22:53] * gsnedders is over in Fife
  98. [10:25:12] <mfbot> [[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=6455 * Brian * (+162) Added A Microformat and Proposal For Interoperable Widgets
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  108. [11:12:29] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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  116. [13:12:06] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  124. [13:51:55] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  125. [13:52:43] * gsnedders (n=geoffrey@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  126. [13:52:43] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  127. [13:53:31] * bear_afk is now known as bear
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  132. [14:20:22] * Hixie (n=ianh@trivini.no) has joined #microformats
  133. [14:20:23] <jibot> Hixie is the iron fist of standards compliance
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  138. [14:45:34] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N092P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  139. [14:45:34] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
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  143. [14:53:51] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  144. [15:00:14] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  145. [15:04:01] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=6456 * RobertBachmann * (+54) Tools & Test Cases & Additional Research - Added a link to hg.microformats.org
  146. [15:06:04] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  147. [15:06:04] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  148. [15:07:55] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@wg.eicc.co.uk) has joined #microformats
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  152. [15:23:43] <jibot> Hixie is the iron fist of standards compliance
  153. [15:24:00] <dglazkov> hi Hixie
  154. [15:24:09] <Hixie> hi
  155. [15:24:32] <dglazkov> are you in SF next week?
  156. [15:28:09] <Hixie> i'll be in the bay area probably, why?
  157. [15:28:47] <dglazkov> I was wondering if I could buy you dinner. or a beer. whichever you prefer
  158. [15:30:02] <dglazkov> talk about XBL, HTML5, and the meaning of life
  159. [15:31:07] <Hixie> sure thing
  160. [15:31:09] <Hixie> how long you around for?
  161. [15:31:21] <Hixie> maybe we can get tantek and others in on dinner too
  162. [15:31:34] <dglazkov> that would be great
  163. [15:31:54] <dglazkov> I am in the area for NetSquared conference
  164. [15:32:13] <Hixie> cool
  165. [15:32:18] <dglazkov> arriving on Monday afternoon, leaving Thursday morning
  166. [15:32:53] <Hixie> hm
  167. [15:33:44] <Hixie> tuesday evening works best for me
  168. [15:33:51] <Hixie> if we want to do dinner
  169. [15:35:22] <dglazkov> tuesday evening should work
  170. [15:36:49] * gsnedders wishes I could get down to Edinburgh tonight
  171. [15:37:01] <gsnedders> but then I'd have the problem of being too young to go into a pub :P
  172. [15:37:17] <dglazkov> what would be the best location?
  173. [15:38:25] <dglazkov> I am staying in Hilton Santa Clara, but I have transportation
  174. [15:40:49] <dglazkov> http://local.google.com/local?f=q&hl=en&q=4949+Great+America+Parkway,+Santa+Clara,+CA&ll=37.402892,-121.977768&spn=0.454366,0.685272&om=1
  175. [15:42:17] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
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  178. [15:50:26] <Hixie> dglazkov: i don't know the city well. get tantek to propose a time and place :-)
  179. [15:50:30] <Hixie> or ryan
  180. [15:50:34] <Hixie> or someone from the city
  181. [15:50:58] <dglazkov> sure
  182. [15:51:56] * izo (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
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  184. [15:58:47] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  185. [15:58:48] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  186. [15:59:00] <dglazkov> speak of the devil
  187. [15:59:13] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  188. [15:59:30] <dglazkov> ¡Hola! tantek
  189. [15:59:52] * dglazkov has been watching way too much "Dora the Explorer" -- comes with having a toddler
  190. [16:03:12] <gsnedders> tantek: I managed to do most of getting hReview to work for bugs with not too much difficulty
  191. [16:03:39] <tantek> gsnedders, that is great news
  192. [16:04:38] <gsnedders> tantek: http://pastebin.com/735265 - incomplete, but getting there
  193. [16:08:18] <gsnedders> just about my only question that went unanswered is what to do with comments on the "review"?
  194. [16:08:38] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@wg.eicc.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  195. [16:09:25] <tantek> greetings
  196. [16:09:34] <tantek> yes, would be great to do a microformats dinner next week in SF
  197. [16:09:49] <tantek> i will be at the Netsquared conference at least one day
  198. [16:09:55] * tantek steps out to get some breakfast
  199. [16:11:20] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
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  201. [16:19:33] * Remi (n=remi@c207.134.44-17.clta.globetrotter.net) Quit ()
  202. [16:25:45] * dglazkov steps out to get some lunch
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  204. [16:36:42] <jibot> bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
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  209. [16:41:29] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  210. [16:41:33] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
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  214. [17:02:37] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
  215. [17:04:15] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=6457 * RobertBachmann * (+0) People on irc - Robert Bachmann: new office hours
  216. [17:05:07] <RobertBachmann> No IRC office hour for me today.
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  219. [17:07:22] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  220. [17:12:22] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  221. [17:12:23] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  222. [17:12:39] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  223. [17:12:39] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  224. [17:12:48] * valmont (n=chrishol@ppp-69-236-24-99.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  225. [17:12:59] * gsnedders wonders why everyone is joining all at once
  226. [17:15:02] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
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  229. [17:24:51] <bewest> gsnedders: everyone is arriving at work?
  230. [17:26:39] <tantek> gsnedders, re: comments on bugs, those could be represented as reviews of the bug itself
  231. [17:27:22] <tantek> though you should also check out the brainstorming that is going on on conversation formats, e.g. irc logs etc.
  232. [17:27:48] <tantek> as that might be a better model for the comments on a bug, since they are more of a conversation typically, rather than disjoint comments
  233. [17:28:18] <tantek> in addition you could also markup the comments on a bug as hAtom so that one could subscribe to a synthesized feed of comments on a bug
  234. [17:29:53] * valmont (n=chrishol@ppp-69-236-24-99.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  235. [17:30:50] <tantek> what RyanKing and I have been calling synthesyndication. we're calling the process of actually doing the synthesization is called syndisynthesization. Neither of those two words show up in a Google search, so I'm pretty sure we can claim to have invented them. ;)
  236. [17:32:42] <tantek> synthesyndication. definition: the process of syndicating content but with a synthetic feed that is synthesized from the content (e.g. content that is marked up with the hAtom microformat that is then transformed to the Atom feed format).
  237. [17:35:49] * kingryan (n=kingryan@wg.eicc.co.uk) Quit ()
  238. [17:36:07] <KevinMarks> hang on, isn't the hAtom a feed, and the transformation to legacy xml formats just a temporary patch until feedreaders add hAtom support?
  239. [17:36:10] <KevinMarks> ;)
  240. [17:37:08] <tantek> syndisynthesization. definition: the actual process of synthesizing a feed from content that is marked up to do so (e.g. for content that is marked up with hAtom, there is an XSLT transform which synthesizes an Atom feed. That process of synthesizing, in particular synthesizing a feed for syndication is called syndisynthesizing.)
  241. [17:37:20] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@wg.eicc.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  242. [17:37:54] <tantek> variants: syndisynthesis, syndisynthesize, syndisynthesizes, syndisynthesizing
  243. [17:38:32] <tantek> variants for synthesyndication: synthesyndicate, synthesyndicates, synthesyndicating
  244. [17:43:00] <KevinMarks> just read that over a dance beat
  245. [17:54:00] <bewest> what about synthecation
  246. [17:55:06] <bewest> it's evidently taken... there exists a synthecation.com
  247. [17:56:05] <tantek> and it rhymes with the rather unpleasant **fecation term
  248. [17:56:43] <gsnedders> yeah, I had thought about using hAtom for the comments
  249. [17:57:29] <tantek> basically, hAtom for the comments is a good start
  250. [17:57:48] <gsnedders> and again, just shout when I hit a problem?
  251. [17:57:57] <tantek> but they might need some additional semantics to indicate that they are a conversation about the bug
  252. [17:58:00] <tantek> yes
  253. [17:58:20] <gsnedders> the first obvious thing is the lack of a title for each comment
  254. [17:58:59] <tantek> each comment has a permalink though right?
  255. [17:59:07] <gsnedders> yeah.
  256. [17:59:10] <tantek> (probably with a # fragment identifier, but that is fine)
  257. [17:59:47] <tantek> is there a header in the UI for each comment, e.g. "Comment #2 by joecontributor"
  258. [18:01:11] <gsnedders> I was thinking of doing something a little more forumesque: having a column of commentators, and a column of comments
  259. [18:01:39] <tantek> in either case, you have effectively a semantic heading for each comment
  260. [18:01:45] <tantek> even if it is just the name of the commenter
  261. [18:01:49] <tantek> or name + date they said it
  262. [18:02:07] <tantek> "Joecontributor (2006-05-24):"
  263. [18:02:18] <tantek> that whole thing could be marked up as the entry-title
  264. [18:02:35] <tantek> with of course the author being marked up inside, as well as the updated date
  265. [18:02:52] <gsnedders> yeah.
  266. [18:03:08] <gsnedders> the title was the only thing I could see with any problems
  267. [18:03:24] <tantek> the point is, there is no explicit title given by the comment author
  268. [18:03:47] <tantek> you are simply synthesizing a title for each comment on-the-fly using the comment author and the datetime that the comment was posted
  269. [18:04:22] <gsnedders> yeah.
  270. [18:04:31] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  271. [18:04:38] <gsnedders> do you make the date human readable, or machine readable?
  272. [18:04:46] <tantek> both ;)
  273. [18:04:49] <gsnedders> being the title, it'd be sensible for it to be human readable
  274. [18:04:51] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
  275. [18:05:14] <gsnedders> (then of course you have the date tag itself, being specific, <abbr> and all)
  276. [18:05:18] <tantek> yes, you make it human readable in the content, and machine readable in the abbr title
  277. [18:05:21] <tantek> right
  278. [18:05:28] <tantek> the point is you can nest that inside the title
  279. [18:05:36] <tantek> so that you don't have to repeat the date data
  280. [18:05:36] <gsnedders> right.
  281. [18:05:45] <tantek> DRY and all
  282. [18:05:45] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  283. [18:05:56] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) Quit (Excess Flood)
  284. [18:06:08] <gsnedders> updated is required, though
  285. [18:06:38] <gsnedders> duh. just include the class there.
  286. [18:09:16] <gsnedders> maybe I go stare out the window and see how long it'll take my sister to arrive :P
  287. [18:10:39] <gsnedders> meh. boring. I don't even know what type of car she's hired :P
  288. [18:18:06] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #microformats
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  291. [18:29:31] <gsnedders> well, g'night
  292. [18:29:37] <gsnedders> although I may be on later :P
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  301. [20:19:18] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  302. [20:35:51] <gsnedders> to quote myself earlier: "I was thinking of doing something a little moreforumesque: having a column of commentators, and a column of comment"
  303. [20:36:07] <gsnedders> the question is, is this data really tabular?
  304. [20:36:16] <badd> hey guys.. any suggestions for a good shopping cart software..?
  305. [20:40:13] <hober> gsnedders: <ol> <li> <cite> ... </cite> <q> ... </q> </li> ... </ol>
  306. [20:40:50] <gsnedders> hober: but you aren't really quoting them, as it is the content in it's original context
  307. [20:46:54] <badd> x-cart..?
  308. [20:48:17] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) has joined #microformats
  309. [20:48:17] <jibot> evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
  310. [20:48:23] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) has joined #Microformats
  311. [20:48:23] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00)
  312. [20:48:29] <evanpro> yay me
  313. [20:48:33] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) has left #Microformats
  314. [20:54:21] * amette (n=amette@p54B89DC1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ("keep havin' fun")
  315. [20:54:53] * gsnedders (n=geoffrey@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  316. [20:56:26] <tantek> gsnedders - you are quoting them because the page itself represents the bug, not the commenter
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  321. [21:22:00] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  322. [21:22:00] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  323. [21:24:17] <bewest> badd: this isn't really a place dedicated to that kind of discussion... having said that, I've tried several shopping carts including oscommerce, zen, and x-cart
  324. [21:25:01] <bewest> badd: so far I like x-cart the best purely because it uses smarty templating... however in my experience they are all awful... x-cart has TERRIBLE html predating 3.2
  325. [21:25:12] <badd> there is nobody in chat rooms like e-commerce or so..:P
  326. [21:25:12] <bewest> badd: (html 3.2 that is)
  327. [21:25:20] * pnhChris hates when he gets a cart with wobbly wheels that is hard to steer so you keep bumping into the isles
  328. [21:25:25] <bewest> badd: in addition, I would recommend the following:
  329. [21:25:34] <bewest> badd: go with a 3rd party hosted solution
  330. [21:25:37] <bewest> they are experts
  331. [21:25:48] <bewest> badd: get a yahoo cart or even better an ebay store
  332. [21:26:02] <badd> on the x-cart website it says xhtml 1.0..
  333. [21:26:13] <bewest> well... then they changed it since I looked at it 2 months ago
  334. [21:26:29] <bewest> when I used it 2 - 3 months ago it was html 3.2
  335. [21:26:37] <badd> mmm.. the shopping cart is going to be implemented on the college website..
  336. [21:26:53] <badd> not sure that ebay is a good solution..;)
  337. [21:28:12] <badd> bewest: did u have any security issues wit x-cart..?
  338. [21:30:07] <bewest> no one wants their shopping cart to be on someone else's site
  339. [21:30:12] <bewest> they never take my advice
  340. [21:30:13] <bewest> heh
  341. [21:30:38] <bewest> most shopping carts I've seen implemented on site look terrible, or act terrible
  342. [21:30:45] <bewest> far better to let ebay do it
  343. [21:31:12] <bewest> as far as security goes... I didn't even pay any attention to that
  344. [21:31:19] <badd> yes, im afraid that it's not gonna work well on the website..:)
  345. [21:31:28] <bewest> my boss overpromised and underpriced the job
  346. [21:32:31] <pnhChris> h8@boss
  347. [21:32:59] <pnhChris> sorry.. just one of those weeks .. /goes back to lurking
  348. [21:33:17] <bewest> h8@ex-boss now :-)
  349. [21:33:30] <bewest> <3@new-boss
  350. [21:33:38] <pnhChris> and yahoo isn't a bad solution
  351. [21:33:48] <pnhChris> i'd probably look there before ebay
  352. [21:33:52] <pnhChris> but whatever
  353. [21:33:53] <bewest> I agree
  354. [21:34:20] <bewest> their platform has been around for ages and has been thoroughly tested
  355. [21:34:26] <pnhChris> though i've been itching to play with zendcart next time i'm in need
  356. [21:34:37] <bewest> zen cart has a nasty templating system
  357. [21:34:40] <pnhChris> er.. s/zend/zen/
  358. [21:35:16] <pnhChris> well, maybe that's what i'd see when i did get a chance to look at it
  359. [21:35:18] <pnhChris> but haven't
  360. [21:39:46] <badd> im not sure that yahoo is approriate to sell items from college bookstore..
  361. [21:41:23] <badd> oh well, i guess its not the right place to discuss this topic..:P;)
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