IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-06-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  37. [04:40:48] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  38. [04:41:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  40. [04:46:52] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  48. [05:44:18] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  53. [06:32:31] <bewes1> so I'm a little unclear on the need for a way to repeat things several times on a page
  54. [06:32:35] <bewes1> the include thing
  55. [06:33:45] <bewes1> I mean, I get the idea of "include" being useful
  56. [06:33:58] <bewes1> but I don't see the need for repeated events on a page
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  58. [06:36:05] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  61. [06:46:51] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  73. [09:12:56] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  79. [10:30:59] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  89. [13:18:48] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  93. [13:28:40] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  94. [13:28:44] * Frederic (i=neuro@pdpc/supporter/active/neuro) has joined #microformats
  95. [13:28:48] <Frederic> Hello
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  100. [13:36:40] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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  103. [14:05:57] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  104. [14:19:55] * bear_afk is now known as bear
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  106. [14:23:19] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  111. [14:59:17] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=6529 * Tantek * (+118) need to flesh out hcalendar-examples
  112. [15:05:03] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  113. [15:05:04] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  119. [15:08:49] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
  120. [15:42:06] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  121. [16:15:35] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) has joined #Microformats
  122. [16:15:36] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00)
  123. [16:18:09] * DanC (n=connolly@64-126-89-30-dhcp-kc.everestkc.net) has joined #microformats
  124. [16:18:10] <jibot> DanC is Dan Connolly http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
  125. [16:30:28] * Enric (n=Enric@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  126. [16:30:28] <jibot> Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
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  128. [16:40:39] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-254.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  129. [16:40:39] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  130. [16:41:09] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  134. [17:02:45] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  135. [17:02:47] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
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  138. [17:46:24] * DanC updates http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/CG/#future with hCalendar markup
  139. [17:49:42] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
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  141. [17:57:53] <kingryan_> nice DanC
  142. [17:58:02] <kingryan_> not sure this is meaningful, though:
  143. [17:58:03] <kingryan_> <b class="location vcard">
  144. [17:58:03] <kingryan_> <span class="adr">
  145. [17:58:03] <kingryan_> <a class="locality" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budva"
  146. [17:58:03] <kingryan_> >Budva</a>, <span class="country-name">Montenegro</span>
  147. [17:58:06] <kingryan_> </span>
  148. [17:58:09] <kingryan_> </b>
  149. [17:58:14] <kingryan_> that's an hcard with no FN or N
  150. [17:58:59] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  151. [17:58:59] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  152. [17:59:19] <tantek> kingryan is right, might as well just use class="location adr" in that case
  153. [17:59:22] <DanC> indeed, that's kinda horked
  154. [17:59:58] <DanC> this nesting stuff is tricky, especially when the URLs get goofed up
  155. [18:00:13] * DanC wonders if he has reported that problem/issue properly
  156. [18:00:28] * kingryan_ doesn't see colons in class names often - "<ul class="stm:people">"
  157. [18:00:48] <DanC> I play around with colons in class names now and again
  158. [18:00:57] <DanC> if nothing else, to see what breaks ;-)
  159. [18:01:04] <kingryan_> :D
  160. [18:01:58] <DanC> the calendar info on http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/CG/#future is used in practice. The hCard isn't, yet.
  161. [18:02:19] <DanC> we maintain http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/CG/plan-formal.ics and http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/CG/plan-formal.rdf
  162. [18:02:54] <DanC> so the "location vcard" with no fn is sort of a reminder for me to noodle on the nesting issues some more.
  163. [18:08:46] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) Quit ()
  164. [18:08:55] <bewest> I've seen colons in class names
  165. [18:08:59] <bewest> to describe a format
  166. [18:09:01] <bewest> kind of weird...
  167. [18:09:03] * bewest fetches url
  168. [18:10:47] <bewest> http://kurafire.net/projects/face scroll down to implementation. an example looks like class="S:slide:10:L:20:0:glow,slide2">
  169. [18:11:27] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-254.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  170. [18:11:35] <kingryan_> ah, yes, putting parameters in the classnames
  171. [18:11:39] * kingryan_ is now known as kingryan
  172. [18:11:40] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  173. [18:11:52] * kingryan is not sure what he thinks of that
  174. [18:12:11] <tantek> DanC, no need for noodling on that example in particular
  175. [18:12:17] <tantek> you have an address, not a contact card
  176. [18:12:33] <tantek> thus embed the address as an "adr", rather than embedding an incomplete hCard
  177. [18:13:39] <bewest> kingryan: yeah, I'm not sure I like it either
  178. [18:13:57] <dglazkov> that's coding presentation into class name.
  179. [18:14:00] <dglazkov> ew
  180. [18:14:05] <dglazkov> I mean...
  181. [18:14:08] <dglazkov> no, ew
  182. [18:14:14] <bewest> yeah
  183. [18:14:16] <kingryan> yeah
  184. [18:14:32] <bewest> well, it's coding procedure into data, right?
  185. [18:14:35] <bewest> which is generally bad
  186. [18:14:50] <kingryan> well, to give them credit, it *is* still rather declarative
  187. [18:14:56] <dglazkov> actually, no, that's declarative
  188. [18:14:56] <kingryan> but its just ugly
  189. [18:15:03] <bewest> ah
  190. [18:15:16] * gsnedders absolutely hates SQL
  191. [18:16:37] <kingryan> select reason from gsnedders limit 1;
  192. [18:17:01] <gsnedders> :)
  193. [18:17:08] <gsnedders> Joins.
  194. [18:17:13] <kingryan> select reason from gsnedders order by importance limit 1;
  195. [18:17:24] <gsnedders> Joins.
  196. [18:20:28] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  197. [18:23:44] <bewest> DanC: did you author formal-plan.rdf by hand?
  198. [18:24:00] <DanC> no; see ./Makefile
  199. [18:24:07] <DanC> it uses glean-hcal.xsl
  200. [18:25:13] <bewest> ah
  201. [18:25:21] <bewest> the Makefile wants http auth
  202. [18:37:12] * bear is now known as bear_lunch
  203. [18:49:42] * tantek sets mode +o briansuda
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  207. [19:36:05] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00)
  208. [19:47:47] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  209. [19:57:56] <DanC> oops... sorry, bwest; http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/CG/Makefile is world-readable now
  210. [20:07:56] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@63-226-145-189.mpls.qwest.net) Quit ()
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  212. [20:12:06] <bewest> DanC: thanks :-)
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  215. [20:54:03] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  216. [20:58:10] * kingryan is around for office hours
  217. [20:58:20] <kingryan> sorry I've missed the past few weeks, been travelin'
  218. [20:59:55] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  219. [20:59:56] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  220. [21:00:11] * briansuda thinks alot of shenanigans too
  221. [21:00:26] <kingryan> yeah, there were shenanigans
  222. [21:06:52] <kingryan> so, briansuda, I've published he hcard tests: http://microformats.org/tests/hcard/
  223. [21:07:19] <briansuda> excellent, i saw the email to the dev-list
  224. [21:07:26] <briansuda> hCalendar next?
  225. [21:07:31] <kingryan> yeah
  226. [21:07:37] <kingryan> should go much quicker
  227. [21:07:50] <briansuda> i know Mark Mansour has a test suite he uses, we could adapt and add to that
  228. [21:09:32] <kingryan> yeah, that's my starting point
  229. [21:09:37] <kingryan> its already in hg
  230. [21:13:13] <KevinMarks> http://fgiasson.com/blog/index.php?title=what_is_the_problem_i_have_with_microfor&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
  231. [21:13:27] <KevinMarks> this chap needs some help with implied and explicit URI's
  232. [21:14:59] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  233. [21:15:17] <kingryan> briansuda, you have a few minutes?
  234. [21:15:22] <kingryan> DanC, you around?
  235. [21:15:38] * briansuda just updating tests
  236. [21:15:49] <briansuda> i've got a few yes
  237. [21:16:53] <kingryan> ok
  238. [21:17:06] <kingryan> so, the xslt for hcalendar...
  239. [21:17:20] <kingryan> when it sees a datetime with no timezone, it converts it to UTC
  240. [21:17:30] <kingryan> is there a reason you do that, rather than leave it floating?
  241. [21:17:42] <tantek> KevinMarks, it's easier than that, just tell him to search for URL instead of URI. Problem solved.
  242. [21:17:52] <KevinMarks> heh
  243. [21:18:12] <KevinMarks> that is a good point
  244. [21:18:33] <briansuda> kingryan, i think it converts EVERYTHING to UTC because that is what the RFC says... i need to look into it again
  245. [21:18:42] * tantek is amazed at how many smart folks look for something very specific, don't find it, then conclude that nothing in the general area could possibly exist, because, well, after a meager search attempt they couldn't find anything.
  246. [21:19:05] <hober> tantek: google has eaten their brains
  247. [21:19:57] <kingryan> yeah, the couldn't possibly consider that the reason they didn't find it was that our search sucks on the wiki
  248. [21:20:18] <kingryan> briansuda - but there's a concept of floating times- which have no timezone
  249. [21:22:06] <briansuda> kingryan, the whole datetime needs refactoring - i'll probably split it out to it's own XSLT file (like uri.xsl)
  250. [21:22:25] <briansuda> go ahead and makes some test cases where X2V failes that way i have a target to code too
  251. [21:22:31] * DanC is trying to be around, but hasn't finished a phone call...
  252. [21:22:51] <tantek> it couldn't possibly have anything to do with MySQL full text indexing not indexing 3 letter (or less) words and MediaWiki being based on MySQL
  253. [21:23:08] <kingryan> tantek: I've already made that comment on the guy's blog :D
  254. [21:23:34] <kingryan> alright, briansuda, as I start working on the hCalendar tests, I'm sure there'll be more questions like this
  255. [21:24:06] <tantek> very nice kingryan
  256. [21:25:51] * gsnedders (n=geoffrey@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  257. [21:28:17] * kingryan is getting annoyed at mercurial
  258. [21:28:25] <kingryan> I did hg mv foo foo2
  259. [21:28:36] <kingryan> afterwards, both foo and foo2 exist
  260. [21:34:07] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  261. [21:35:50] <mfbot> [[what-are-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats&diff=0&oldid=6530 * Tantek * (+135) linked to knowprose's blogpost
  262. [21:42:10] * znarfor (n=znarf@nor75-17-82-67-199-96.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  263. [21:43:45] * tantek_ (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  264. [21:48:44] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  265. [21:56:20] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-254.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  266. [22:17:06] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=6531 * KevinHarder * (+237) Companies / Organizations / Authors / Services -
  267. [22:19:14] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has left #microformats
  268. [22:19:17] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  269. [22:19:17] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  270. [22:21:47] <mfbot> [[xfn-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations&diff=0&oldid=6532 * KevinHarder * (+157) XFN Implementations -
  271. [22:24:40] * DanC finally finishes his call; was going to try to tune in for office hours, but has family time a little early today.
  272. [22:24:41] <DanC> darn
  273. [22:26:49] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=6533 * EdwardOConnor * (+92) Examples in the wild - federali.st
  274. [22:27:02] <kingryan> too bad, DanC
  275. [22:27:37] <DanC> and next week I'm travelling, FYI
  276. [22:28:11] <DanC> I see we're starting to focus on hCalendar tests... is anybody here following the IETF CALSIFY WG closely?
  277. [22:28:45] <tantek_> DanC, I keep up with the list
  278. [22:30:10] <DanC> I asked what I thought was a pretty focussed question about "dtstart and date vs datetime" to the calsify list and haven't gotten an answer.
  279. [22:30:22] <DanC> sent it 21 Apr
  280. [22:31:05] <DanC> http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify/2006-April/000925.html
  281. [22:31:29] <DanC> hmm... New chair: Eliot Lear ... anybody know him?
  282. [22:31:44] <DanC> in typical IETF fashion, no link to a blog/homepage in http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify/2006-April/000929.html
  283. [22:32:16] * kingryan 's head still spins when he thinks about date formats
  284. [22:33:07] <DanC> hmm... revised charter http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify/2006-June/000984.html ... phpht... archive thingy doesn't grok HTML
  285. [22:33:33] <DanC> crap; they're reconsidering whether to go to draft standard
  286. [22:33:50] <kingryan> ouch
  287. [22:34:39] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  288. [22:34:39] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  289. [22:35:31] <DanC> to go to draft standard, they can only take stuff out. So they're considering adding stuff. sigh.
  290. [22:36:07] <DanC> that msg is dated 5 Jun; I guess it's still in order to comment
  291. [22:36:11] <DanC> gotta run, though
  292. [22:36:29] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  293. [22:39:49] <hober> my probably-very-gratuitous use of hAtom this weekend: http://federali.st/
  294. [22:40:00] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit ("Leaving")
  295. [22:40:40] <kingryan> that's pretty nerdy hober
  296. [22:40:50] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  297. [22:40:50] <hober> s/pretty/extremely/, yeah
  298. [22:41:20] <hober> All of the other webbed versions of the FPs out there are some kinf of 1994-ish Fischer Price My-First-Website
  299. [22:41:50] <hober> I thought it might be nice to have a rendition of them that both looked decent and was actually web-usable (linking into them at a per-paragraph level, etc.)
  300. [22:42:53] <kingryan> is that a standard numbering, or did you make the scheme up?
  301. [22:43:19] <hober> you mean, 1-85?
  302. [22:43:23] <hober> That's the standard numbering
  303. [22:43:30] * Remi (n=remi@c66.110.146-231.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
  304. [22:43:37] <hober> or do you mean the per-paragaph ids?
  305. [22:43:41] * valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
  306. [22:43:42] <hober> Those I made up
  307. [22:44:01] <kingryan> coffee time, brb
  308. [22:44:14] <hober> Though in some cases (the constitution on there), they're derived from the standard way of talking about clauses (article 1, section 8, clause 4 is #a1s8c4)
  309. [22:46:24] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  310. [22:49:31] * bear is now known as bear_dinner
  311. [23:08:57] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) Quit ()
  312. [23:14:02] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
  313. [23:19:35] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  314. [23:33:07] <kingryan> ok, back now
  315. [23:35:25] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) has joined #microformats
  316. [23:50:55] * znarfor (n=znarf@nor75-17-82-67-199-96.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  317. [23:57:58] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
  318. [23:58:54] * briansuda (i=briansud@AC95A61B.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  319. [23:58:55] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame

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