IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-06-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [01:23:18] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [08:49:24] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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- [10:12:20] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [11:15:11] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [12:15:49] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [13:42:57] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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- [14:06:54] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
- [14:11:02] <dglazkov>
tantek!
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- [14:52:41] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00)
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- [15:04:05] <jibot>
Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
- [15:17:49] <Enric>
Hey Tantek
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- [15:48:08] <tantek>
Hey Enric
- [15:48:15] <tantek>
hey dglazkov
- [15:48:22] <dglazkov>
hey tantek
- [15:48:31] <dglazkov>
did you see my question on uf-discuss about the themes?
- [15:49:49] <briansuda>
dglazkov, do you have a link to the question?
- [15:50:03] <jibot>
Hwin is horseygurl, trying to go undercover.
- [15:50:18] <tantek>
dglazkov, all my presentations on microformats are CC-by licensed
- [15:50:25] <dglazkov>
sorry -- let me just ask here: can I reuse your white-green theme for s5 for my presentation
- [15:50:26] <tantek>
feel free to use the css as well as the content
- [15:50:32] <dglazkov>
great!
- [15:50:34] <dglazkov>
thanks
- [15:50:40] <tantek>
the images may have different licenses
- [15:50:43] <gsnedders>
tantek: I finally stopped being lazy and did something about Fbug :)
- [15:50:45] <tantek>
depending on where they came from
- [15:50:54] <tantek>
hey gsnedders
- [15:50:57] <dglazkov>
btw, your plenary presentation is a super improvement
- [15:55:19] <tantek>
thanks dglazkvo
- [15:55:23] <tantek>
dglazkov
- [15:55:37] <tantek>
(/me has a pet peeve about misspellings of names)
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- [15:57:25] <jibot>
ChanServ is the great op giver and on freenode it is part of dancer-services, which is deprecated. Please message lilo if you're a python coder who wants to help code the replacement.
- [15:57:50] <gsnedders>
I hope to have a beta of Fbug sometime next week
- [16:07:34] <dglazkov>
tantek, that's because your last name isn't smith
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- [16:13:27] * tantek finally leaves a comment on Scott's follow-up rant/post: http://weblog.randomchaos.com/archive/2006/06/02/Companies_Can_Safely_Ignore_Me/#comments
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- [17:13:16] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
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- [17:35:08] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [18:02:55] <jibot>
Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
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- [18:38:23] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [18:41:09] <briansuda>
kingryan, has there ever been a discussion about a Planet Microformats site? possibly a subdomain of microformats.org if not, i wouldn't mind taking a hack at it
- [18:41:19] <kingryan>
not that I know of
- [18:42:10] <briansuda>
OK, i'll play around in my infinite freetime and let you know what emerges
- [18:45:58] <mfbot>
[[hcard-parsing]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing&diff=0&oldid=6534 * Tantek * (+220) added rules for AREA element, added note about proper treatment of floating dates and times
- [18:46:53] <briansuda>
Oh, kingryan, another thing i just realised with the hCard tests
- [18:47:09] <briansuda>
we need to add one for the Implied-N where there is a comma in the name
- [18:47:12] <briansuda>
"Suda, Brian"
- [18:47:18] <kingryan>
ok, go for it!
- [18:47:19] <briansuda>
X2V fails on that currently
- [18:47:35] <tantek>
oh hey brian
- [18:47:46] * tantek just added AREA rules to hcard-parsing
- [18:48:03] <briansuda>
tantek, i see that. Also the only DATETIME in hCard is birthday
- [18:48:30] <briansuda>
floating times are important, but more important on the hCalendar page
- [18:48:52] <briansuda>
X2V probably does have a big with floated times, it was probably introduced with the padding issues
- [18:49:17] <briansuda>
once Ryan gets a DATETIME test up, i'll correct the XSLT to reflect that
- [18:49:47] <kingryan>
there's some tests in hg already
- [18:49:50] <kingryan>
for hcalendar
- [18:49:55] <kingryan>
but I can add some for hcard
- [18:50:00] <tantek>
briansuda, right about all that (bday etc.)
- [18:50:02] <kingryan>
there are no birthday tests in hcard yet
- [18:50:11] <tantek>
I'm taking care to try to keep the documentation in hcard-parsing fairly generic
- [18:50:56] <tantek>
so that folks can follow the same rules for hCalendar parsing, until I have gotten around to writing up /wiki/hcalendar-parsing (which will inevitably lead to me extracting the common bits into /wiki/compound-microformat-parsing probably
- [18:51:02] <briansuda>
kingryan, i don't think there is a TABLE AXIS/HEADER/ID test either... i'll see what i can do this weekend in getting some of those into the hCard
- [18:51:06] <tantek>
there are examples in the wild with bdays though
- [18:51:24] <kingryan>
yeah, but we need to write testcases for them still, tantek
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- [18:51:28] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00)
- [18:51:31] <tantek>
agreed kingryan
- [18:51:32] <briansuda>
i think Flickr has AGE
- [18:51:44] <briansuda>
not sure if that is converted to BDAY or not?
- [18:51:54] <tantek>
it is not
- [18:52:35] * briansuda things hCard parsing as a generic set is good, will make the hCalendar parsing page easier to write
- [18:52:43] * briansuda thinks not things
- [18:54:45] <dglazkov>
yay! presentation went well
- [18:55:58] <kingryan>
great dglazkov
- [18:56:38] <briansuda>
dglazkov, any slides online?
- [18:56:45] <dglazkov>
not yet -- working on it
- [18:56:50] <dglazkov>
it was a two-hour presentation
- [18:56:54] <kingryan>
wow
- [18:56:56] <tantek>
congrats dglazkov!
- [18:56:58] <briansuda>
be sure to add it to the wiki page about presentations
- [18:57:00] <dglazkov>
took two hours to prepare ;)
- [18:57:09] <tantek>
be sure to add your presentation, photos etc. to http://microformats.org/wiki/presentations
- [18:57:29] * briansuda thinks the planet microformats would come in handy right about now
- [18:57:33] <dglazkov>
I took Tantek's sxsw presentation and riffed on it
- [18:57:54] <dglazkov>
btw, I just left your presentation mention in Colophon. Is that the right way to attribute?
- [19:00:20] <kingryan>
that's what I do, dglazkov
- [19:01:21] <dglazkov>
there may be a video. _may be_.
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- [19:05:55] <tantek>
dglazkov, I think as long as you cite what works you derived from, with names of authors, that seems sufficient IMHO
- [19:07:16] <dglazkov>
great!
- [19:08:00] <dglazkov>
I am going to clean up the presentation (had to hack a bit the look and feel of pre/code stuff) and publish it shortly.
- [19:11:13] <dglazkov>
scott got really upset over this microformats search thing, didn't he?
- [19:12:14] <kingryan>
yeah
- [19:13:49] <dglazkov>
too bad
- [19:14:57] <dglazkov>
but, in retrospective, whenever you innovate, you become one of two things:
- [19:15:08] <dglazkov>
1) a stepping stone
- [19:15:48] <dglazkov>
2) a respected authority
- [19:16:15] <dglazkov>
and so far, I don't understand the choosing algorithm
- [19:17:33] <dglazkov>
and there's that red queen problem
- [19:17:35] * bunnywabbit_ is now known as bunny_dead
- [19:22:35] <tantek>
dglazkov, sometime you become both
- [19:22:38] <tantek>
sometimes even
- [19:23:18] <tantek>
a lot of the difference between 1 & 2 is how much time and persistence you put into it
- [19:23:20] <dglazkov>
right. But you always gotta run. Accomplishment is nothing.
- [19:23:33] <tantek>
release often doesn't mean release lots of first versions of different things
- [19:23:49] <tantek>
release often means iterate quickly and update the thing you released early
- [19:24:01] <tantek>
and therefore thus, yes, the red queen problem
- [19:24:57] <dglazkov>
how hard would it have a "world calendar" view of the hCalendar search?
- [19:25:04] <tantek>
indeed
- [19:25:28] <tantek>
a distributed/decentralized world wide calendar of events presents all sorts of new UI challenges
- [19:25:34] <dglazkov>
that would be a super-demo
- [19:27:33] <dglazkov>
btw, I followed your advice and started with a demo
- [19:27:36] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
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- [19:40:23] <bunny_dead>
?def dglazkov
- [19:40:23] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
- [19:40:45] <dglazkov>
?def dunny_dead
- [19:40:46] <jibot>
Nobody has defined dunny_dead yet
- [19:44:21] <KevinMarks>
?aka bunny_dead
- [19:44:21] <jibot>
bunny_dead is also known as mddeephack_ and redear___ and imorpheu and fafnir_is_back and graaah and eseidel_ and dchen___ and legionx_ and nichlas_ and [3]adam_gfx2 and too many more to list.
- [19:44:26] <KevinMarks>
hm
- [19:45:07] <dglazkov>
?def bunny_dead
- [19:45:08] <jibot>
Nobody has defined bunny_dead yet
- [19:45:25] <dglazkov>
?def bunny
- [19:45:26] <jibot>
bunny is bunnywabbit_ enjoying an early Christmas present from lilo and ibunny
- [19:46:26] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
- [19:46:37] * josh (n=josh@c-67-173-183-155.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:46:45] <KevinMarks>
?def bunnywabbit_
- [19:46:45] <jibot>
bunnywabbit_ is Stephanie Booth from Lausanne (CH) and blogs at http://climbtothestars.org (fr-en) and elsewhere (http://steph.suprglu.com) and working for http://cocomment.com (#cocomment)
- [19:47:02] * josh (n=josh@c-67-173-183-155.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has left #microformats
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- [19:50:59] * bunny_bed (n=whatever@adsl-84-226-158-225.adslplus.ch) Quit ()
- [19:58:11] <dglazkov>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/schram/163173930/
- [19:58:16] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has left #microformats
- [19:58:37] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
- [20:02:24] * kingryan|eats is now known as kingryan
- [20:07:30] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]")
- [20:49:53] <briansuda>
i'm not sure when this happened, but the http://web2.0validator.com/ now checks for microfomats
- [20:50:06] <kingryan>
I think that's been in there for awhile
- [20:50:35] <briansuda>
it's like must see tv, if you haven't seen it, it's new to you
- [20:51:09] <kingryan>
my favorite rule from the validator: "Appears to be web 3.0 ? Yes!"
- [20:52:16] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [20:52:17] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [20:52:20] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [21:03:25] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
- [21:05:53] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
- [21:05:54] <jibot>
bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
- [21:07:03] <kingryan>
bewest, so are you in the bay area now?
- [21:09:13] <bewest>
yes :-)
- [21:09:21] <bewest>
I can't believe I missed the meet up a little while ago
- [21:09:22] <kingryan>
coolio
- [21:09:37] <bewest>
yeah, I moved at the end of April
- [21:12:06] <kingryan>
cool
- [21:12:20] <kingryan>
what part of the area are you living in?
- [21:20:02] <tantek>
bewest, welcome to the bay area
- [21:20:13] <tantek>
you made it here just in time for the nice weather
- [21:28:53] <bewest>
I live in the richmond
- [21:29:03] <bewest>
Caifonia & 20th or so
- [21:29:18] <bewest>
tantek: thanks :)
- [21:29:27] <bewest>
I heard there was some nast weather in the spring
- [21:29:36] <bewest>
but was also told the richmond gets cold and foggy in the summer
- [21:29:52] <kingryan>
yeah, but we have about a month right now when its sunny and warm
- [21:29:54] <bewest>
where is the technorati office?
- [21:30:08] <KevinMarks>
665 3rd street
- [21:30:24] <bewest>
ah, downtown?
- [21:30:52] <bewest>
I've been evangelizing microformats here like crazy
- [21:30:59] <kingryan>
yeah, we're over in SOMA
- [21:31:06] <bewest>
trying to turn on our crawl team
- [21:31:16] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
- [21:31:41] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
- [21:31:45] <bewest>
do you think a search results page is kind of like a review?
- [21:33:37] <tantek>
not really
- [21:33:50] <tantek>
because the "result" summary is not human generated
- [21:34:03] <tantek>
reviews have a human reviewer
- [21:34:03] <bewest>
yeah, good point
- [21:34:16] <bewest>
well, and the whole idea is about publised content, right?
- [21:34:40] <bewest>
search results aren't realy meant to be published and indexed themselves...
- [21:34:49] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
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- [21:35:55] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:38:54] <tantek>
right
- [21:39:09] <tantek>
unless they are more than just "search" results and actually provide some meaning
- [21:39:25] <tantek>
e.g. syndication
- [21:39:50] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) has joined #microformats
- [21:40:24] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Client Quit)
- [21:43:34] <mfbot>
[[hcard-parsing]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing&diff=0&oldid=6535 * Tantek * (+300) added specific handling of degenerate <br> / <hr> use for microformats properties just to make it explicit
- [21:46:29] * kingryan wishes that browsers would actually *refresh* when he asks them to
- [21:46:45] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
- [21:49:19] <kingryan>
anyone around with WinIE in front of them?
- [21:49:38] <briansuda>
what do you need kingryan
- [21:49:53] <kingryan>
need to check http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator in winIE
- [21:50:13] <briansuda>
will do, what are you looking for inperticular?
- [21:50:33] <kingryan>
nothing in particular
- [21:50:38] <kingryan>
just general working
- [21:50:43] <tantek>
hmm...
- [21:50:55] <tantek>
i would like to put in some warnings about publishing your email and spam harvesting bots
- [21:51:10] <tantek>
that's one of the reasons i was waiting on updating the canonical creator on microformats.org
- [21:51:34] <tantek>
typical users (perhaps even average bloggers) don't know about email harvesting bots
- [21:51:38] <kingryan>
true
- [21:51:41] <tantek>
same problem with telephone and IM
- [21:51:51] <kingryan>
I can add some obfuscation to the markup
- [21:52:11] <kingryan>
of course, abstinence is the only sure solution
- [21:52:16] <tantek>
the problem is, if a microformats parser can parse the content, then the spam bot just has to use that library
- [21:52:31] <tantek>
right, which is why i deliberately omitted those fields from the hCard creator I wrote
- [21:52:56] <tantek>
if we want to update it quickly, let's just comment out those fields for now
- [21:53:08] <kingryan>
well, its already updated
- [21:53:08] <tantek>
phone, email, aim, yim
- [21:53:14] <tantek>
uh
- [21:53:21] <kingryan>
but I can remove those
- [21:53:26] <tantek>
thanks!
- [21:53:32] <briansuda>
it seems to work for me.
- [21:53:36] <kingryan>
good
- [21:53:44] <tantek>
looks good in Camino
- [21:53:50] <briansuda>
i was going to suggest adding SKYPE, but it looks like it will be axed anyway
- [21:54:46] <kingryan>
of course, now I'm commenting out all the work I've done this afternoon
- [21:54:59] <tantek>
hmm...
- [21:55:30] <tantek>
the fieldset got wider
- [21:55:36] <tantek>
which makes the code preview wrap too soon
- [21:55:49] <tantek>
or rather, requires a 1024 wide display in order to not wrap
- [21:55:52] <kingryan>
yes, it got wider, no its not perfect
- [21:55:59] <tantek>
well, it could be made a lot narrower
- [21:56:11] <tantek>
tons of empty space between the longest input boxes and the right edge of the fieldset
- [21:56:16] <kingryan>
I know, I know, I know
- [21:56:23] <tantek>
oh ok, just making sure
- [21:56:33] <tantek>
everything else looks good in both Safari 1.3 and 2.0 btw
- [21:56:34] <kingryan>
thanks
- [21:56:37] <vant>
Works fine with ie7 :)
- [21:57:26] <tantek>
hmm, javascript errors in ie5/mac
- [21:57:34] <tantek>
whereas previous version worked I think
- [21:57:48] <tantek>
at least the version I coded up: http://tantek.com/microformats/hcard-creator.html
- [21:58:12] <tantek>
vant, could you try enabling Scripting Error Alerts in your IE/Windows preferences and see if you get any script errors?
- [21:59:01] <vant>
sure, wait for a sec.
- [21:59:35] <tantek>
i'm getting an "Expected ')'" inside Mochikit
- [21:59:53] <briansuda>
i get error Line 85, char 7 in IE 6
- [22:00:01] <briansuda>
but everything works fine
- [22:00:04] <tantek>
and an "Expected identifier or string" on the line with }; on line 85, char 6
- [22:00:07] <tantek>
yep
- [22:00:08] <tantek>
same here
- [22:00:12] <tantek>
on IE5/Mac
- [22:00:46] <kingryan>
is this the IE/Mac useragent string:
- [22:00:47] <kingryan>
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.23; Mac_PowerPC) ?
- [22:00:58] <tantek>
that's one of them yes
- [22:01:01] <tantek>
here is the other
- [22:01:06] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ("almost quitting time")
- [22:01:56] * tantek just tried out the creator in IE5.17/Mac
- [22:02:27] <tantek>
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.17; Mac_PowerPC)
- [22:03:32] <vant>
yeah, got an error at line 85, char 7
- [22:03:39] <kingryan>
in ie 7?
- [22:03:43] <vant>
yep
- [22:03:43] <kingryan>
in which file?
- [22:05:01] <kingryan>
and which beta of IE7, vant?
- [22:05:13] <vant>
the one in micformats.org
- [22:05:34] <kingryan>
no, which file does the log say the error is in?
- [22:05:46] <kingryan>
trust me, there's more than one file :D
- [22:05:49] * Enric (n=Enric@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:05:50] <jibot>
Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
- [22:06:31] * Enric (n=Enric@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
- [22:07:58] <vant>
i dunno which file. the dialog has only url but file
- [22:08:05] * _d4rr3ll_ (n=d4rr3ll@taylor1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
- [22:08:07] <kingryan>
well, what's the URL?
- [22:08:11] <vant>
ah and Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 7.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 2.0.50727)
- [22:09:08] <vant>
oh. http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator
- [22:09:14] <kingryan>
ok, thanks
- [22:09:39] <tantek>
same here with IE5/Mac
- [22:09:53] <kingryan>
well line 85 of the file is now commented out
- [22:10:03] <kingryan>
so, any errors there seem kinda silly
- [22:13:37] <kingryan>
alright, looking at the log files, only two IP addresses have accessed this file in its entire lifetime on microformats.org with Mac IE
- [22:13:42] <kingryan>
it might be time to give up support
- [22:14:47] <kingryan>
I'll bet at least one of those users was tantek
- [22:16:33] <tantek>
you searched the entire logs of microformats.org in that time? i thought we were rotating/archiving logs somewhere (since we do get a bit of traffic)
- [22:17:23] <tantek>
if it was anything other than fixing little bugs in the javascript that may have been inadvertantly introduced, i might agree
- [22:18:09] <tantek>
IE (both Mac and Win) has stricter javascript parsing than, ahem, other implementations, and thus is going to raise errors sooner rather than later when you're doing something wrong
- [22:18:18] <tantek>
think of it as "lint" ;)
- [22:18:21] <kingryan>
nope, no rotation
- [22:18:49] <tantek>
that log file has to be getting quite big then ;)
- [22:18:54] <kingryan>
files*
- [22:19:17] <kingryan>
and if by "big" you mean 10s of MBs, then yes
- [22:22:39] * d4rr3ll (n=d4rr3ll@taylor1.plus.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [22:29:42] <vant>
got the prob. try getting rid of the last comma at line 82
- [22:30:13] <vant>
tel : ' <div class="tel">${tel}</div>',
- [22:30:17] <kingryan>
yeah, I got that
- [22:30:30] <kingryan>
you having any other errors?
- [22:30:37] <vant>
:)
- [22:31:01] <vant>
lemme double check
- [22:31:32] <vant>
nope. whoa!
- [22:33:21] <kingryan>
good
- [22:36:12] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
- [22:36:12] <jibot>
hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
- [23:00:42] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@63-226-145-189.mpls.qwest.net) Quit ()
- [23:03:12] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) Quit ()
- [23:08:56] <kingryan>
interesting, it seems that vcard's BDAY can take UTC offsets, unlike iCalendar
- [23:18:23] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@63-226-145-189.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
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