IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:01:53] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
  2. [00:02:10] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=7268 * PhilipAshlock * (+0) Spam prevention -
  3. [00:03:01] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=7269 * PhilipAshlock * (+26) Spam prevention -
  4. [00:18:02] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=7270 * PhilipAshlock * (+578) Spam prevention -
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  26. [02:40:01] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  27. [02:40:25] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  29. [03:09:23] <mfbot> [[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=7271 * Tantek * (-1021) removed type attribute usage on includes due to reasoning provide on microformats-discuss by Ryan King
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  38. [03:52:06] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=7272 * ChristopheDucamp * (+13) Wiki Microformats -
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  42. [03:59:07] * Jonnay (n=jonny@d199-126-185-156.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #microformats
  43. [03:59:08] <jibot> Jonnay is a programmer, graphic designer and musician. He blogs at http://blog.jonnay.net and his music is at http://www.jonnay.net
  44. [04:00:03] <Jonnay> tantek: I still have yet to meet with my PM about the hCards, but it will probably be tomarrow.
  45. [04:13:47] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-authoring-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-authoring-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+10340) [fr: structure translated. to be continued]
  46. [04:16:34] * Jonna1 (n=jonny@d199-126-185-156.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  47. [04:28:14] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=7273 * ChristopheDucamp * (+302) Déterminer l'Elément entourant pour Chacun -
  48. [04:36:20] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=7274 * ChristopheDucamp * (+217) L'Importance du Temps et du Sujet -
  49. [04:40:16] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=7275 * ChristopheDucamp * (+92) Eliminer le Souligné Pointillé par Défaut -
  50. [04:42:36] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC835832.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  51. [04:42:36] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  52. [04:42:37] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  53. [04:46:39] * briansuda has just pushed some changes to the XSLT to HG, please be sure to pull/update
  54. [04:50:27] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=7276 * ChristopheDucamp * (+84) URLs représentatives -
  55. [04:56:14] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=7277 * ChristopheDucamp * (+101) Location Location Location -
  56. [04:58:10] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=7278 * ChristopheDucamp * (+90) Plus de trucs et d'instructions -
  57. [05:01:45] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
  58. [05:02:16] <mfbot> [[irc-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-fr&diff=0&oldid=7279 * ChristopheDucamp * (+139)
  59. [05:07:11] <KevinMarks> http://blog.neontology.com/articles/2006/07/10/microformats-for-math-mom
  60. [05:07:18] <KevinMarks> :)
  61. [05:07:22] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.1/2006012608]")
  62. [05:11:31] <briansuda> KevinMarks, very nice!
  63. [05:11:59] <KevinMarks> was having dinner with Rosie's homeschool friends
  64. [05:15:09] <briansuda> i like the last line, "Now the tree has fallen in the woods"
  65. [05:17:11] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC835832.ipt.aol.com) Quit ("time for bed")
  66. [05:18:33] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-fr&diff=0&oldid=7280 * ChristopheDucamp * (-18) exemple object include -
  67. [05:21:19] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-fr&diff=0&oldid=7281 * ChristopheDucamp * (+263) class name "include" -
  68. [05:25:24] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable234.84-70-69.mc.videotron.ca) Quit ()
  69. [05:26:30] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-fr&diff=0&oldid=7282 * ChristopheDucamp * (-217) exemple object include -
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  71. [05:28:21] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-fr&diff=0&oldid=7283 * ChristopheDucamp * (+40) Reconnaissance -
  72. [05:31:22] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-fr&diff=0&oldid=7284 * ChristopheDucamp * (+959) exemple inclusion objet -
  73. [05:33:03] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-fr&diff=0&oldid=7285 * ChristopheDucamp * (+48)
  74. [05:35:34] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-fr&diff=0&oldid=7286 * ChristopheDucamp * (+6) typo
  75. [05:38:10] <mfbot> [[hreview-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-fr&diff=0&oldid=7287 * ChristopheDucamp * (+165) Exemples dans la jungle - ajout Yahoo Local
  76. [05:39:51] <mfbot> [[hreview-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-fr&diff=0&oldid=7288 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) typo
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  78. [05:41:42] <mfbot> [[hreview-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-fr&diff=0&oldid=7289 * ChristopheDucamp * (+13) Microformats Spécifications 22 février 2006 Draft -
  79. [05:44:38] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-fr&diff=0&oldid=7290 * ChristopheDucamp * (+69) Nouveaux Exemples -
  80. [05:47:10] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=7291 * ChristopheDucamp * (+134) Nouveaux Exemples - Yahoo Local
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  94. [06:08:21] <mfbot> [[screencasts-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=screencasts-fr&diff=0&oldid=7292 * ChristopheDucamp * (+174) cette année -
  95. [06:24:14] * Charl (n=charlvn@net-153-111.mweb.co.za) has joined #microformats
  96. [06:24:14] <jibot> Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
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  98. [07:22:39] <mfbot> [[rel-payment]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-payment * Tantek * (+49)
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  100. [07:29:10] <jibot> boneill is Ben O'Neill, a 3rd year Software Engineering student - http://www.benedictoneill.com/
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  104. [08:05:10] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  113. [09:14:37] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  114. [09:14:37] <jibot> edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
  115. [09:39:29] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ("keep havin' fun")
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  118. [09:50:22] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan - watch him, he's tricky.
  119. [09:50:38] <drewinthehead> ahoy
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  121. [09:51:53] <trovster> chucks away
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  128. [11:15:53] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  133. [12:57:33] <boneill> out of interest, what defines the naming for the microformats?
  134. [12:57:39] <boneill> some are hXXX, others are vXXX
  135. [12:57:54] <Ciaran_> vXXX are existing standards, I believe
  136. [12:58:06] <chucker_> v* aren't microformats
  137. [12:58:24] <Ciaran_> hXXX tend to be microformats that map to the vXXX
  138. [12:58:42] * tantek (n=tantek@h-68-167-74-227.nycmny83.covad.net) Quit ()
  139. [12:59:07] <boneill> what about vevent ?
  140. [12:59:16] <Ciaran_> vEvent isn't a microformat
  141. [12:59:17] <chucker_> vevent is part of hCalendar
  142. [12:59:26] <Ciaran_> er, wait
  143. [12:59:28] <Ciaran_> hum
  144. [12:59:29] <chucker_> and hCalendar maps to vCalendar/iCalendar, which are formats.
  145. [13:00:05] <boneill> interesting :)
  146. [13:00:10] <Ciaran_> hCalendar is a mapping of vCalendar. vCalendar has an element called a vEvEvent, and hCalendar uses the same element names as the vCalendar format.
  147. [13:00:12] <Ciaran_> If that makes sense
  148. [13:00:28] <boneill> ah that makes sense
  149. [13:00:34] <chucker_> yep
  150. [13:00:50] <chucker_> (of note, vCalendar is known as iCalendar as of version 2.0, cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VCalendar )
  151. [13:01:12] <Ciaran_> chucker - leading to lots of confusion with iCal, the Apple application!
  152. [13:01:18] <chucker_> yes, indeed.
  153. [13:01:27] <chucker_> especially because iCalendar is often abbreviated iCal :)
  154. [13:02:05] <chucker_> but then, iCal (the app) has had extensive iCalendar support from day one. ;)
  155. [13:02:22] * Ciaran_ brain explodes
  156. [13:03:09] <chucker_> what does the s in .ics mean, anyway?
  157. [13:03:28] <boneill> stuff?
  158. [13:03:33] <chucker_> uhhuh
  159. [13:04:14] <Ciaran_> schedule? That rings a bell
  160. [13:04:22] <chucker_> that would work, i guess
  161. [13:05:11] <Ciaran_> I wonder if I should mark up my blog with vJournal elements
  162. [13:05:38] <Ciaran_> you seen anyone do that?
  163. [13:05:49] <trovster> Where is vJournal?
  164. [13:06:00] <trovster> Maybe you want http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom
  165. [13:06:00] <Ciaran_> it's an element type inside vCalendar
  166. [13:06:24] <Ciaran_> Calendars can have appointments, journal items, some other stuff
  167. [13:06:34] <chucker_> it's not really intended for that
  168. [13:06:39] <chucker_> afaict
  169. [13:06:58] <Ciaran_> "[14:06] Ciaran_ (+) [#microformats (+tnc)] {1} niven.freenode.net [online]pork> It'd "
  170. [13:07:03] <Ciaran_> oops ignore sorry
  171. [13:07:13] <Ciaran_> "VJOURNAL components describe a journal entry. They simply attach descriptive text notes with a particular calendar date, and might be used to record a daily record of activities or accomplishments."
  172. [13:07:25] <Ciaran_> = blog, to my mind!
  173. [13:07:28] <chucker_> "descriptive text notes"
  174. [13:07:31] <Ciaran_> far simplified, obviously
  175. [13:07:40] <trovster> Where's that from?
  176. [13:07:49] <chucker_> in any case, it's certainly not vCalendar's *focus*
  177. [13:07:52] <Ciaran_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar#Journal_entry_.28VJOURNAL.29
  178. [13:07:58] <chucker_> as such, by using vCalendar, you're bringing a lot of overhead
  179. [13:08:07] <Ciaran_> I appreciate that, I'm not saying ditch hAtom or anything ;-)
  180. [13:08:14] <chucker_> you should use hAtom, like trovster said
  181. [13:08:37] <Ciaran_> I'm just saying why not have both? Part of the beauty of microformats is the way they can be interlaced
  182. [13:09:03] <chucker_> part of the beauty, however, is also that they're minimal and strictly defined in their purpose, no? ;)
  183. [13:09:06] <Ciaran_> Enabling things like subscribing to certain blogs via Google Calendar would be pretty interesting
  184. [13:09:17] <chucker_> adding journaling capabilities on top of hCalendar seems not "micro" to me
  185. [13:09:24] <Ciaran_> Who said 'adding'?
  186. [13:09:33] <Ciaran_> i'm saying it's in there already...
  187. [13:09:38] <chucker_> yes, i know
  188. [13:09:47] <chucker_> how about "leveraging" ;)
  189. [13:09:54] <trovster> Ciaran_: "blogs via Google Calendar would be pretty interesting" -- I thought people used calendars for future events, not past events.
  190. [13:10:18] <chucker_> generally, yep
  191. [13:10:49] <Ciaran_> I sometimes look back at my calendar to see when certain events were, it'd be interesting to quickly see which blog entries coincided with them.
  192. [13:11:14] <Ciaran_> let me repeat: I am not claiming vJournals are the best way of semantically marking up a blog ;-)
  193. [13:11:28] <chucker_> alright. :)
  194. [13:11:41] <chucker_> I'm not arguing that it's an interesting idea.
  195. [13:11:49] <Ciaran_> I'm just trying to think of some uses because I've only just read the bit of the vJournal spec and think it's interesting
  196. [13:11:54] * markp (n=markp@adsl-150-154-240.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  197. [13:12:21] <chucker_> well, I'm not looking forward to implementing vJournal in my parser. ;)
  198. [13:13:32] * trovster is implementing hatom at the momentt
  199. [13:22:00] * tantek (n=tantek@mail.amscan.org) has joined #microformats
  200. [13:22:01] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  201. [13:22:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  202. [13:23:12] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable234.84-70-69.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  203. [13:23:14] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) Quit ()
  204. [13:37:01] <trovster> <p class="comments"><a href="#" rel="comments">24 Comments</a></p> -- what semantics can I add to linking to comments?
  205. [13:42:11] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  206. [13:42:12] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  207. [13:42:41] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  208. [13:43:28] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  209. [13:45:53] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]")
  210. [13:47:55] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  211. [13:49:20] * bookwyrm (n=matt@user-11fa4r8.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  212. [13:55:37] <mfbot> [[book-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-formats&diff=0&oldid=7293 * Ross Singer * (+30) Formats -
  213. [13:59:34] <pnhChris> tantek: mornin'
  214. [13:59:55] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  215. [13:59:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  216. [13:59:56] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  217. [14:00:52] <pnhChris> know if technorati is working on an hatom proxy similar to its calendar and card services?
  218. [14:02:06] <trovster> Yeh, I'm wondering that. I just tried the one off the wiki and gave me an error agao
  219. [14:02:08] <trovster> again*
  220. [14:02:23] <pnhChris> http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/
  221. [14:02:28] <pnhChris> that one trovster ?
  222. [14:02:41] <trovster> Yup
  223. [14:02:53] <pnhChris> i haven't had any problems with it yet.. just not sure what kind of bandwidth its got going for it
  224. [14:02:59] <mfbot> [[book-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-examples&diff=0&oldid=7294 * Ross Singer * (+177) Examples -
  225. [14:04:00] <trovster> pnhChris: I had a problem with XHTML as XML
  226. [14:04:40] <pnhChris> ah
  227. [14:04:47] <pnhChris> got a page handy? (i'd like to try my NNW script on it see if it has the same problems)
  228. [14:05:06] <pnhChris> or is it not public
  229. [14:05:07] <trovster> XHTML as XML... urm, not in public domain, I can PM it
  230. [14:05:22] <trovster> http://paste.css-standards.org/1426/view - that gives me 'Could not parse sourcetree.'
  231. [14:09:06] <pnhChris> i get that as well
  232. [14:09:14] <pnhChris> still parsing chunkysoup.net fine
  233. [14:14:10] <drewinthehead> have you tried the xsl locally, trovster?
  234. [14:14:24] <trovster> Nope
  235. [14:14:42] * tantek (n=tantek@mail.amscan.org) Quit ()
  236. [14:15:32] <drewinthehead> i need to go grab some lunch, but after that i could try setting up my own hatom2atom proxy and see if that works any better
  237. [14:16:01] <trovster> That'd be ace. I'm writing another site which I want to test what happens. Two different hatoms on the page!
  238. [14:17:54] <drewinthehead> ok, back in a bit, but then i'll see if i can get it running
  239. [14:18:02] <pnhChris> i don't recall if the xsl file was ever updated to try and deal with that
  240. [14:18:15] * drewinthehead is now known as drew_
  241. [14:18:15] * drew_ is now known as drewinthehead
  242. [14:18:17] <pnhChris> but it be good to see what happens
  243. [14:18:41] <drewinthehead> damn ... nickname changing doesn't work in this latest colloquy .. i'm away :)
  244. [14:19:07] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  245. [14:28:29] * drewinthehead is back
  246. [14:32:50] <mfbot> [[how-to-play-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play-fr&diff=0&oldid=7295 * ChristopheDucamp * (+468)
  247. [14:41:42] * bookwyrm (n=matt@user-11fa4r8.dsl.mindspring.com) Quit ()
  248. [14:43:16] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  249. [14:44:53] * pnhChris grumbles about technoratis events UI and having to decide whether someones wants to subscribe or pull ahead of time
  250. [14:46:15] * trovster wonders if the technorati events service works with his code yet.
  251. [14:46:37] <mfbot> [[mailing-lists-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/mailing-lists-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+5165) Structure translated
  252. [14:54:49] * boneill (n=boneill@hatstand.ecs.soton.ac.uk) Quit ()
  253. [14:57:13] * bookwyrm (n=matt@user-11fa4r8.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  254. [15:02:43] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  255. [15:02:43] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  256. [15:05:54] <mfbot> [[mailing-lists-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists-fr&diff=0&oldid=7296 * ChristopheDucamp * (+391) mauvais sujets pour la discussion -
  257. [15:08:40] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=7297 * ChristopheDucamp * (+7) Introduction - typo
  258. [15:18:44] * drewinthehead grumps about hAtom2Atom
  259. [15:19:41] <mfbot> [[rel-home-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-home-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+3112) [fr:translation to be reviewed]
  260. [15:20:29] <trovster> drewinthehead: heh :)
  261. [15:20:37] <mfbot> [[rel-home-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-home-fr&diff=0&oldid=7298 * ChristopheDucamp * (-3)
  262. [15:25:04] * kisu (n=kisu@cielkisu.tb.as8758.net) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  263. [15:26:46] <drewinthehead> woo .. got it working trovster
  264. [15:27:32] <trovster> ace
  265. [15:28:17] <drewinthehead> do you have a URL i could test with?
  266. [15:30:52] <drewinthehead> seems to be working with chunksoup.net, so i'll work out how to push this live somewhere
  267. [15:32:24] <drewinthehead> should the content-type be text/xml+atom?
  268. [15:32:47] <trovster> http://paste.css-standards.org/1426/view
  269. [15:35:21] <drewinthehead> that sort-of works, trovster
  270. [15:35:36] <trovster> heh, sort of ;)
  271. [15:35:39] <drewinthehead> i get a title "welcome return to form"
  272. [15:35:45] <drewinthehead> but no content
  273. [15:36:09] <trovster> Hmm, there isn't any content for those..
  274. [15:37:13] <drewinthehead> i'll push this live, then you can see what it's doign
  275. [15:43:59] <pnhChris> applescript is such a lovely language
  276. [15:44:06] <pnhChris> if itemDescription contains "vcard" then say "poop"
  277. [15:44:54] * pnhChris shakes head
  278. [15:46:29] * kisu (n=kisu@cielkisu.tb.as8758.net) has joined #microformats
  279. [15:55:48] <drewinthehead> trovster: http://tools.microformatic.com/hatom/http://paste.css-standards.org/1426/view
  280. [15:56:33] <trovster> Wanna add some \n ;)
  281. [15:57:14] <drewinthehead> why?
  282. [15:57:24] <trovster> Coz it's one huge line
  283. [15:57:39] <drewinthehead> it's your line, not mine! :)
  284. [15:58:07] <trovster> That output is all one one line
  285. [16:00:37] * tantek (n=tantek@mail.amscan.org) has joined #microformats
  286. [16:00:38] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  287. [16:00:41] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  288. [16:02:33] <drewinthehead> how do you want it wrapped? it's xml, so all on one line is valid
  289. [16:06:20] <drewinthehead> i have tidy configured to wrap at 1000 chars, because it otherwise it puts in weird line breaks that i'm not able to detect for some reason
  290. [16:11:12] <drewinthehead> any better now, trovster?
  291. [16:12:20] <trovster> Stupid FF, showing plain text, not the XML
  292. [16:12:34] <drewinthehead> ah, no that's me
  293. [16:12:42] <Ciaran_> pnhChris - what are you writing in applescript? I keep wanting to have a go with it
  294. [16:12:46] <drewinthehead> couldn't work out from the atom spec how it's supposed to be served
  295. [16:12:56] <drewinthehead> i'll try text/xml
  296. [16:13:45] <pnhChris> i'm learning it for the 8billionth time so i can write a bookmarklet type thing for pulling microformats from net news wire entries
  297. [16:14:21] <Ciaran_> calendar stuff?
  298. [16:14:50] <Ciaran_> I was considering writing something for Safari that piped the current page through X2V and pushed it at the Address Book
  299. [16:14:55] <drewinthehead> ah, i think it's supposed to be application/atom+xml, which will force a download :/
  300. [16:15:07] <trovster> Yeh, which is ANNOYING.
  301. [16:15:12] <pnhChris> and hcard, for now
  302. [16:15:12] <pnhChris> might post something later, depends how much play time i get this afternoon
  303. [16:15:28] <drewinthehead> how do you force FF into its XML rendering mode?
  304. [16:15:34] <trovster> Especailly, when someone doesn't link to their RSS, and you're forced to get the source, if you hit enter on it by accident, forces you to download.
  305. [16:16:13] <trovster> http://tools.microformatic.com/hatom/http://paste.css-standards.org/1427/view -- ace, takes the first hatom, but not the sidebar
  306. [16:16:34] <drewinthehead> is that good?
  307. [16:17:07] <pnhChris> its.. expected
  308. [16:17:11] <trovster> Well, dunno, what should it do with two hatoms?
  309. [16:17:35] <drewinthehead> fire them into each other and great speed.
  310. [16:17:48] <trovster> boooomb
  311. [16:17:53] <pnhChris> like i said.. didn't think the xsl has been changed yet
  312. [16:17:53] <pnhChris> what does
  313. [16:17:53] <pnhChris> um
  314. [16:18:18] <pnhChris> this should at /least/ give you the other feed: http://tools.microformatic.com/hatom/http://paste.css-standards.org/1427/view#content-supplementary
  315. [16:18:34] <Ciaran_> drewinthehead - I believe you get Firefox into its XML rendering mode by serving as text/xml
  316. [16:19:08] <drewinthehead> that's what i thought, Ciaran_, but it doesn't appear to be working
  317. [16:19:21] <pnhChris> trovster: there's a mail list thread 2, maybe 3 weeks ago where we finally settled on a first good gues on handling multiple feeds
  318. [16:20:30] <pnhChris> ... in other parsing questions
  319. [16:20:40] <pnhChris> drew... others...
  320. [16:20:41] <pnhChris> http://michaelraichelson.com/hacks/microformats/chris.html
  321. [16:20:51] <pnhChris> hcard in a table
  322. [16:21:07] <pnhChris> with name "parts" in separate fields
  323. [16:21:29] <tantek> columns?
  324. [16:21:43] <pnhChris> right now that markup is being parsed by x2v with the FN being all text from all 4 cells
  325. [16:21:58] <tantek> yeah, that's correct
  326. [16:22:07] <pnhChris> for the markup, yes
  327. [16:22:28] <pnhChris> so the question becomes, how to wrap just the first 2 cells in fn
  328. [16:23:07] <drewinthehead> oddly, i'm getting the incorrect, but as the author intended. weird.
  329. [16:23:24] <Ciaran_> pnhChris - would a colgroup be applicable?
  330. [16:23:54] <tantek> what an interesting idea Ciaran
  331. [16:24:08] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  332. [16:24:14] <Ciaran_> I'd have to look up exactly how colgroup/col work, mind you
  333. [16:24:20] <tantek> colgroups are just used for grouping <column> elements AFAIK
  334. [16:24:26] <tantek> col right
  335. [16:24:56] <Ciaran_> yes, so <colgroup class="fn"><col/><col/></colgroup> might make sense
  336. [16:25:07] <tantek> that's really clever
  337. [16:25:10] <Ciaran_> It would apply to the entire column, though
  338. [16:25:15] <Ciaran_> that's the drawback I guess
  339. [16:25:18] <tantek> right
  340. [16:26:31] <Ciaran_> Is there some way of using the include stuff instead? Can you have <span class="fn"><a class="include" href="#cell1" /><a class="include" href="cell2"></a></span> somewhere?
  341. [16:26:44] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  342. [16:27:33] <tantek> yeah, you could have a column of empty <td>s that just included the cells
  343. [16:28:49] <tantek> in the same row
  344. [16:29:38] <pnhChris> that really starts playing with table/page semantics
  345. [16:29:48] <pnhChris> though the colgroup idea in interesting
  346. [16:30:31] <tantek> you may be able to use <td headers=""> instead of the include pattern
  347. [16:30:36] <tantek> to just point to the other cells
  348. [16:31:16] <pnhChris> i guess my other question is.. does FN matter anywhere?
  349. [16:31:23] <tantek> another solution might be to allow for implied "fn" from n
  350. [16:31:28] * tantek ducks from drew's stare.
  351. [16:31:35] <pnhChris> yeah
  352. [16:32:03] <pnhChris> it doesn't in the hcard->vcard->apple address book case but that's fairly limited
  353. [16:32:16] * drewinthehead points out that there is not escape from his stare.
  354. [16:32:18] <tantek> because, after all, if you are going to the trouble of marking up a structured name, why not allow it to imply the "simpler" thing of a canonically concatenated version of those structured name components?
  355. [16:33:35] <tantek> lunch time here at AEA
  356. [16:33:37] <tantek> bbiab
  357. [16:34:04] * tantek (n=tantek@mail.amscan.org) Quit ()
  358. [16:34:05] <pnhChris> sure
  359. [16:35:23] <Ciaran_> The counter-argument is that the concatenation of the n elements is far from obvious
  360. [16:35:44] <Ciaran_> I mean, does someone use their middle initial? How do we know?
  361. [16:35:57] <Ciaran_> Are they chinese and concatenate it the other way round to the way I would?
  362. [16:36:01] <Ciaran_> Or is that covered in vCard
  363. [16:36:02] <Ciaran_> ?
  364. [16:36:25] <drewinthehead> if we were to imply fn from n, we'd just take the elements in the order given
  365. [16:37:04] <pnhChris> but you may lose punctuation and such
  366. [16:37:14] <pnhChris> its not an easy call to make
  367. [16:37:20] <drewinthehead> much as if class="n" had been class="n fn"
  368. [16:38:16] <drewinthehead> take the text value of the n element
  369. [16:39:01] <pnhChris> i guess if you still need n you aren't fixing anything.. not with this scenario
  370. [16:39:26] <pnhChris> not if you're pulling all the text content
  371. [16:39:50] <drewinthehead> include-pattern?
  372. [16:40:54] * mraichelson (n=mraichel@static-68-163-73-3.res.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  373. [16:41:07] <Ciaran_> right, home time. Bye!
  374. [16:41:13] <drewinthehead> bye Ciaran_
  375. [16:41:15] * Ciaran_ (n=Ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) Quit ("i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)")
  376. [16:42:34] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
  377. [16:42:34] <jibot> bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
  378. [16:42:37] <drewinthehead> i'm not sure i want to entertain the idea of implying fn from n as well as n from fn
  379. [16:45:54] * pnhChris greets mraichelson
  380. [16:46:00] <pnhChris> catch up on the logs?
  381. [16:46:09] <mraichelson> yeah, i'm up to speed. ;)
  382. [16:46:20] <pnhChris> try the col trick yet?
  383. [16:47:46] <mraichelson> snuck it in just now, giving it a shot
  384. [16:48:54] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  385. [16:54:04] <mraichelson> using the colgroup doesn't seem to get picked up in tails or the technorati converter
  386. [16:54:22] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  387. [16:54:42] * ChanServ sets mode +o KevinMarks
  388. [16:54:49] <drewinthehead> what's the URL, mraichelson?
  389. [16:55:04] <mraichelson> http://michaelraichelson.com/hacks/microformats/chris2.html
  390. [16:56:06] <drewinthehead> yeah, i'm not picking up the fn in hkit either
  391. [16:56:16] <drewinthehead> colgroups are weird
  392. [16:56:27] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@d137-186-197-23.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #microformats
  393. [16:56:41] <mraichelson> very
  394. [16:57:24] <drewinthehead> for the sake of everyone's sanity, i don't suggest we try to parse them ;)
  395. [16:57:36] <mfbot> [[Main Page-jp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-jp&diff=0&oldid=7299 * IwaiMasaharu * (-6) 他の言語に翻訳するのをお手伝いください！ - ページ名の例を日本語(ja)に変更した
  396. [16:57:46] <drewinthehead> hey factoryjoe
  397. [16:57:46] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@d137-186-197-23.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  398. [16:58:13] <pnhChris> so what's the thought on "usbscribing" to events in a single blog post / post permalink vs just saving them?
  399. [16:58:24] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@d137-186-197-23.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #microformats
  400. [16:58:32] <pnhChris> think i could get away with not providing the subscribe option
  401. [17:00:31] <pnhChris> i mean.. i can.. not like this script is gonna be polished anyway... just kinda thinking out loud
  402. [17:05:02] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  403. [17:05:20] <pnhChris> anyone here run NNW?
  404. [17:05:43] <mfbot> [[Main Page-jp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-jp&diff=0&oldid=7300 * IwaiMasaharu * (+3) Microformats Wiki - how-to-play-ja ページを作成する準備
  405. [17:06:44] <mfbot> [[how-to-play-ja]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/how-to-play-ja * IwaiMasaharu * (+730) 英語版「2006年5月2日 (火) 00:45」
  406. [17:06:53] <drewinthehead> don't regularly, pnhChris, but could
  407. [17:07:27] <pnhChris> thought it was evil :P
  408. [17:07:35] <drewinthehead> it is!
  409. [17:07:42] <drewinthehead> which is why i don't run it
  410. [17:07:59] <pnhChris> btw.. endo really needs to up its google rankings
  411. [17:08:23] <pnhChris> :P
  412. [17:08:28] * drewinthehead nods
  413. [17:08:36] <pnhChris> and get better page titles
  414. [17:08:40] <drewinthehead> vienna needs to up general awareness
  415. [17:09:01] <drewinthehead> needs some of the ol' factoryjoe treatment ;)
  416. [17:09:11] <pnhChris> the official site gets kinda lost under your review :P
  417. [17:09:40] <factoryjoe> ;)
  418. [17:10:27] <mraichelson> client meeting where i get to pimp the MF action. later :)
  419. [17:10:34] <factoryjoe> :D
  420. [17:10:36] <pnhChris> in any case.. if you wanna bother running NNW.. heres the rough of what I was thinking in terms of style+script to do a bookmarklet like extraction of microformats: http://placenamehere.com/mf/nnwextract/
  421. [17:10:42] * mraichelson (n=mraichel@static-68-163-73-3.res.east.verizon.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  422. [17:11:14] <factoryjoe> a drawer for NNW w/ MFs would be cool
  423. [17:11:24] <drewinthehead> ok, i'll take a look once i'm home. clocking off time in this neck of the woods.
  424. [17:11:36] <pnhChris> this isn't that cool
  425. [17:11:52] <pnhChris> just a style sheet based off of defaul with some highlighting of vcard/vevent
  426. [17:12:08] <pnhChris> and an applescript to pass you to the right technorati service
  427. [17:12:15] <pnhChris> in bookmarklet-like fashion
  428. [17:12:48] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@oliis.plus.com) Quit ()
  429. [17:13:30] * pnhChris tar'd em up and posted that too
  430. [17:18:06] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  431. [17:18:06] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  432. [17:18:08] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  433. [17:18:49] <pnhChris> http://ruk.ca/article/3752
  434. [17:18:52] <pnhChris> eenteresting
  435. [17:19:05] <pnhChris> anyway.. off to grab lunch
  436. [17:20:45] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
  437. [17:24:30] <mfbot> [[how-to-play-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play-ja&diff=0&oldid=7301 * IwaiMasaharu * (+434) 大部分を翻訳。一部は上手く訳せなかったので英語のまま。
  438. [17:27:46] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  439. [17:29:16] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) has joined #microformats
  440. [17:29:17] <jibot> evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
  441. [17:30:27] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  442. [17:33:52] <mfbot> [[how-to-play-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play-ja&diff=0&oldid=7302 * IwaiMasaharu * (+3) naming-conventions-ja の作成準備のためのリンクを追加
  443. [17:34:24] <kingryan> *-ja - I assume that's japanese?
  444. [17:34:26] <briansuda> pnhChris, i am reading the back-messages, you can also use the class="value" inside and class="fn" and it will concatenate those values together thus avoiding data in all 4 of your rows
  445. [17:34:53] <mfbot> [[naming-conventions-ja]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/naming-conventions-ja * IwaiMasaharu * (+690) 英語版: 2006年1月30日 (月) 19:48 を翻訳
  446. [17:41:29] * tantek (n=tantek@mail.amscan.org) has joined #microformats
  447. [17:41:30] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  448. [17:41:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  449. [17:55:09] <mfbot> [[Main Page-jp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-jp&diff=0&oldid=7303 * IwaiMasaharu * (+6) 他の言語に翻訳するのをお手伝いください！ - とりあえずロールバック
  450. [17:56:15] <tantek> whoa
  451. [17:56:29] <factoryjoe> ?
  452. [17:56:56] <tantek> seeing Japanese "just work" in an *IRC* client is surreal. very cool.
  453. [17:57:05] <factoryjoe> heh
  454. [17:57:06] <factoryjoe> yes
  455. [17:57:13] <factoryjoe> that's funny
  456. [17:57:19] <factoryjoe> i'm of the generation that takes it for granted
  457. [17:57:33] <factoryjoe> ;)
  458. [17:57:56] <kingryan> lol, factoryjoe - you're definitely not a programmer, then
  459. [17:57:56] * tantek wonders what the archives look like.
  460. [17:58:13] <tantek> kingryan - good luck on your tutorial!
  461. [17:58:16] <KevinMarks> doesn't work in my client
  462. [17:58:22] <iwaim_> hello
  463. [17:58:23] <kingryan> tantek: it was yesterday
  464. [17:58:23] <tantek> KevinMarks, get a new client :p
  465. [17:58:25] <KevinMarks> as it predates the utf-8 generation
  466. [17:58:33] <tantek> oh right
  467. [17:58:55] <factoryjoe> kingryan: you know i'm not a programmer
  468. [17:59:04] <factoryjoe> i'm a roguegrammer
  469. [17:59:08] <iwaim_> my username is IwaiMasaharu on the Wiki.
  470. [17:59:14] <kingryan> I'm just sayin'...
  471. [17:59:20] <tantek> hello iwaim! welcome.
  472. [17:59:33] <tantek> thank you for helping with the Japanese translation of the wiki.
  473. [17:59:38] <tantek> it is greatly appreciated
  474. [17:59:45] <iwaim_> kingryan: "ja" is language code for Japanese.
  475. [18:00:01] * kingryan was confused by the japanese TLD of 'jp'
  476. [18:00:24] <tantek> yep, archives work
  477. [18:00:31] <evanpro> country codes and language codes that are different are rare
  478. [18:00:40] <tantek> but confusing when they occur
  479. [18:00:52] <bewest> yay jp
  480. [18:00:53] <evanpro> yes
  481. [18:01:02] <evanpro> I do the jp/ja thing all the time
  482. [18:01:37] <bewest> /me's first soap service was a ISO31666 (or whatever number it is) country code calculator
  483. [18:01:55] <evanpro> sv/se is another one
  484. [18:02:20] <evanpro> calculator?
  485. [18:02:30] <evanpro> .uk + .fr + .de + .nl + .. = .eu
  486. [18:02:33] <bewest> hehe
  487. [18:02:34] <bewest> no
  488. [18:02:41] <bewest> calculator/translator
  489. [18:02:52] <bewest> China -> cn
  490. [18:02:56] <evanpro> ah
  491. [18:02:56] <iwaim_> I use '-ja' for Japanese page name. Should I use '-jp' according to the current?
  492. [18:03:17] <kingryan> iwaim_: use the language code
  493. [18:03:18] <bewest> the second soap service as a date formatter based on the country code
  494. [18:04:40] <tantek> iwaim_ we use the same language codes as Wikipedia and the "lang" attribute in HTML.
  495. [18:06:05] <tantek> bewest, is that web service available as REST?
  496. [18:07:41] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@70-59-79-117.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  497. [18:07:56] <iwaim_> we use ' <html lang="ja"> ' for Japanese pages.
  498. [18:09:40] <bewest> tantek: no :-( this was a long time ago... before I was englightened
  499. [18:09:54] <bewest> tantek: if you think it's relevant/useful I can add a REST interface
  500. [18:10:09] <bewest> I didn't think it's very useful though
  501. [18:10:41] <iwaim_> sorry, i don't know such web service.
  502. [18:10:46] <bewest> in fact, everything there is a relic of the "old" way of doing things
  503. [18:10:49] <tantek> it could be interesting for a greasemonkey plugin that could replace the innertext on dtstart/dtend per the date formatting of the language/locale
  504. [18:10:53] <bewest> http://www.siliconllama.com/client/
  505. [18:11:08] <bewest> (please ignore the many many bad design decisions)
  506. [18:12:40] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  507. [18:12:40] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan - watch him, he's tricky.
  508. [18:13:26] <bewest> so you think it should be redone as RESTful?
  509. [18:13:27] <bewest> hmmm
  510. [18:13:39] <bewest> make it pipeable
  511. [18:13:49] * bewest schedules some time this weekend to redo it
  512. [18:17:04] <KevinMarks> REST as pipe is the new hotness
  513. [18:17:24] <KevinMarks> though recursive urlencoding is a bit odd
  514. [18:20:37] <bewest> KevinMarks: yes, and I've caught the fever
  515. [18:21:06] <bewest> KevinMarks: on saturday I was ready to create some deductive interfaces that essentially create a user interface based on semantic data coming from RESTful pipes
  516. [18:21:20] <bewest> KevinMarks: but then I realized there weren't nearly enough pipes available yet
  517. [18:21:33] <bewest> KevinMarks: and part of the problem is everyone is still coming up with their own data format
  518. [18:21:35] <tantek> need to lay more pipes
  519. [18:21:42] <bewest> seems like every week google comes out with a new ********* format
  520. [18:21:46] <tantek> bewest, indeed
  521. [18:21:54] <tantek> it's ok, you can say it
  522. [18:21:57] <tantek> *proprietary*
  523. [18:22:02] <bewest> heh
  524. [18:22:03] <bewest> yeah
  525. [18:22:12] <KevinMarks> right, but you can add a transformative service that mungs hem into a good one
  526. [18:22:18] <bewest> well they make it seem like it's open
  527. [18:22:21] <tantek> KevinMarks, why would you bother?
  528. [18:22:21] <KevinMarks> weren't Ning doing some of that?
  529. [18:22:28] <tantek> then you're just supporting another proprietary format
  530. [18:22:32] <bewest> KevinMarks: yeah, but I'm not interested in that.. I'm interested in developoing interfaces
  531. [18:22:37] <tantek> right
  532. [18:22:47] <bewest> tantek: gdata -> uformat pipes would be useful
  533. [18:22:59] <KevinMarks> well, thats the thing - build your pipes that manipulate microformats
  534. [18:23:04] <bewest> right
  535. [18:23:12] <KevinMarks> then you cna have transducers that bring in or out other stuff
  536. [18:23:27] <bewest> but the <proprietary format> -> uformat pipes aren't quite laid yet
  537. [18:23:43] <bewest> so at barcamp we discussed the "verbs" that might be omnipresent...
  538. [18:23:48] <bewest> but we aren't ready for that yet
  539. [18:23:52] <bewest> we first need to lay those pipes
  540. [18:24:29] <bewest> x2v, v2x were good first starts
  541. [18:24:34] <kingryan> verbs.equal?(['GET', 'PUT', 'POST', 'DELETE', 'HEAD'])
  542. [18:24:38] <bewest> sorry
  543. [18:24:39] <bewest> no
  544. [18:24:46] <bewest> verbs like "add to contact list"
  545. [18:24:52] <factoryjoe> yeah, like "join group"
  546. [18:24:52] <bewest> interactions with the user
  547. [18:25:13] <bewest> or "perform the following set manipulation on these lists"
  548. [18:25:20] <KevinMarks> factoryjoe, tantek, we need to get those videos chooepd up and posted sometime
  549. [18:25:28] <factoryjoe> kingryan: like the mouseover actions on a flickr avatar
  550. [18:25:35] <factoryjoe> KevinMarks: who has them?
  551. [18:25:36] <factoryjoe> tantek?
  552. [18:25:38] <KevinMarks> whena re we all in the same town
  553. [18:25:50] <KevinMarks> I thought each of us had some
  554. [18:25:50] <factoryjoe> heh
  555. [18:26:08] <KevinMarks> we could just upload to joi's server and then chop 'em up
  556. [18:26:22] <factoryjoe> sure
  557. [18:26:29] <factoryjoe> or archive.org?
  558. [18:26:33] <factoryjoe> whichever
  559. [18:26:43] <tantek> please move barcamp discussion to #barcamp please ;)
  560. [18:27:11] <factoryjoe> it's not really a barcamp discussion
  561. [18:27:16] <factoryjoe> we're talking about microformats video
  562. [18:27:18] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  563. [18:27:18] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
  564. [18:28:10] <KevinMarks> well, it's both
  565. [18:29:12] <bewest> tantek: one thing I wonder about is who is going to be providing these pipes?
  566. [18:29:25] <bewest> someone can create these on their personal site, but it's not scalable
  567. [18:29:37] <tantek> no Kevin, discussing uploading of videos is not a microformat discussion, at least not yet :)
  568. [18:30:11] <bewest> maybe the main thing is creating it, and worrying about sponsorship later
  569. [18:30:14] <factoryjoe> well anyway, KevinMarks yes, we need a place to put it
  570. [18:30:20] <factoryjoe> so feel free to explore
  571. [18:30:23] <factoryjoe> options
  572. [18:30:30] <factoryjoe> bewest: pipes?
  573. [18:30:33] <factoryjoe> for...?
  574. [18:30:35] <KevinMarks> OK to barcamp
  575. [18:31:04] <bewest> factoryjoe: pipe = REST as a pipe
  576. [18:31:20] <bewest> specifically, when I use it, in the context of translating some proprietary data to a uformat
  577. [18:31:42] <factoryjoe> ah, reading the backscroll
  578. [18:32:01] * bookwyrm_ (n=matt@207.111.218.47) has joined #microformats
  579. [18:34:39] <factoryjoe> ah ok
  580. [18:34:40] <factoryjoe> got it
  581. [18:34:49] <factoryjoe> hmm
  582. [18:35:04] <factoryjoe> sounds like mp3 <--> aac translation where something's always lost
  583. [18:37:22] * bookwyrm_ (n=matt@207.111.218.47) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  584. [18:39:35] * bookwyrm_ (n=matt@207.111.218.47) has joined #microformats
  585. [18:40:20] * bookwyrm (n=matt@user-11fa4r8.dsl.mindspring.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  586. [18:51:17] <KevinMarks> not necessarily
  587. [18:52:11] <KevinMarks> sometimes it's like x2v, sometimes it's running a query
  588. [18:52:28] * valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
  589. [18:53:16] * alexandermuse (n=alexande@63.98.55.146) has joined #microformats
  590. [18:56:20] <deanero> join rest
  591. [18:56:24] <deanero> arf
  592. [18:56:57] <alexandermuse> Unsolicited request: Anyone available to help review hResume markup generated by a WordPress plugin? We have be wanting to release the plugin, but we have not been able to find anyone to provide us with comments on the markup. Ryan King has looked at it and indicated that it has issues, but we are still looking for someone who can guide our coder. Any ideas?
  593. [18:57:33] <kingryan> alexandermuse: it has issues, but there are ways for you guys to help yourselves
  594. [18:57:34] <factoryjoe> hey alexandermuse would love to try it
  595. [18:57:50] <alexandermuse> Perfect, I will email to chris.. Thanks for your help.
  596. [18:57:58] <kingryan> you don't have to rely on others to read the markup and analyze it by hand
  597. [18:58:09] <alexandermuse> Ryan-my coder is sticking it to me...
  598. [18:58:35] <alexandermuse> He won't do anymore work unless I can provide him with specific fixes. I am just trying to get it done. I have ZERO technical ability.
  599. [18:59:07] <kingryan> that's rather unprofessional of him
  600. [18:59:11] <alexandermuse> :)
  601. [18:59:18] <tantek> alexandermuse, don't pay him unless the code validates
  602. [18:59:22] <tantek> that will provide incentive
  603. [18:59:23] <alexandermuse> Paid...
  604. [18:59:27] <alexandermuse> 50%
  605. [18:59:42] <tantek> then you know what to require for the next payment milestone
  606. [18:59:42] <alexandermuse> Sure, but I want the plugin more than I want the money.
  607. [18:59:56] <alexandermuse> Yea, $500 to fix the markup - everything else is done.
  608. [19:01:22] <alexandermuse> Literally, I started this in May with this guy. For a simple plugin. I am so beat I am about to just throw in the towel - we are on our second plugin coder on this project alone.
  609. [19:01:23] <factoryjoe> well, send it to me
  610. [19:01:23] <alexandermuse> Perfect.
  611. [19:01:24] <factoryjoe> i can't help too much w/ the code per se
  612. [19:01:24] <factoryjoe> but i might be able to find someone
  613. [19:01:24] <alexandermuse> That would be helpful.
  614. [19:04:06] <alexandermuse> Sent email and added you to basecamp site.
  615. [19:04:16] <alexandermuse> Here is example output from his plugin: http://www.foobargeek.net/wordpress/?page_id=59
  616. [19:04:36] <factoryjoe> cool
  617. [19:04:39] <factoryjoe> ok, i'll take a gander
  618. [19:04:41] <factoryjoe> gotta run now
  619. [19:04:44] <alexandermuse> Thanks
  620. [19:04:48] <alexandermuse> Really appreciate it Chris.
  621. [19:04:53] <factoryjoe> sure
  622. [19:04:56] <factoryjoe> don't count just on me
  623. [19:04:59] <alexandermuse> Also, thanks Ryan for your help too, I know you are swamped as it us.
  624. [19:05:00] <alexandermuse> is
  625. [19:05:02] <factoryjoe> if you can find another MFer
  626. [19:05:07] <factoryjoe> feel free to pass it to them as well
  627. [19:05:22] <alexandermuse> will do
  628. [19:06:14] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@d137-186-197-23.abhsia.telus.net) Quit ()
  629. [19:14:40] * alexandermuse (n=alexande@63.98.55.146) Quit ()
  630. [19:15:27] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ()
  631. [19:18:19] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  632. [19:23:32] <drewinthehead> ok, so pipes ... if i want to provide a service with different options (say to output xhtml or json), is it best to try and get those into the body of the uri to avoid confusion with query strings?
  633. [19:24:10] <kingryan> well, the proper way would probably be content negotiation
  634. [19:24:42] <drewinthehead> how so?
  635. [19:26:09] <drewinthehead> there's nothing to negotiate in a GET is there?
  636. [19:28:01] <bewest> kingryan: yeah, yahoo uses an output parameter
  637. [19:28:19] * bookwyrm (n=matt@user-11fa4r8.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  638. [19:28:24] <bewest> GET /query/?params...&output={json,php,xml,csv...}
  639. [19:28:24] <kingryan> you can negotiate content types
  640. [19:28:29] <kingryan> based on accepts headers
  641. [19:28:31] <drewinthehead> ah, I'm with you kingryan
  642. [19:28:38] <kingryan> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/content-negotiation.html
  643. [19:28:43] <bewest> kingryan: isn't that frought with peril?
  644. [19:28:50] * drewinthehead just re-read-up on content negotiation :)
  645. [19:28:55] <bewest> that seems to add complexity
  646. [19:29:03] <kingryan> bewest: it depends on who you ask
  647. [19:29:20] <kingryan> the new rails rest stuff is going to make use of it, but also have fallbacks
  648. [19:29:22] <bewest> if I'm the developer, I don't want to have to munge my accept header for <x> user agent I'm using
  649. [19:29:49] <bewest> I just want the user agent to work without me setting these transparent options
  650. [19:29:58] <bewest> the GET parameter is very opaque... I know what I'm doing with it
  651. [19:29:59] <kingryan> munge? are you talking about dealing with user agents which don't do conneg right?
  652. [19:30:01] <bewest> but... that's just me
  653. [19:30:26] <bewest> I'm saying as a developer I'd rather set a parameter than a user agent header
  654. [19:30:48] <bewest> and I don't think I'm alone
  655. [19:31:25] <bewest> the content negotiation thing isn't nearly as salient as simply setting a parameter
  656. [19:31:34] <drewinthehead> i agree, bewest. i'm not sure i even can set a header in the libraries i'm using
  657. [19:32:06] <bewest> drewinthehead: right
  658. [19:32:16] <bewest> in addiiton, the parameter option lets you do things that aren't standardized :-)
  659. [19:32:23] <bewest> like, is there a content type for csv?
  660. [19:32:29] <kingryan> drewinthehead: what library are you using?
  661. [19:32:31] <kingryan> libcurl?
  662. [19:32:31] <bewest> output=csv makes perfect sense
  663. [19:32:39] <bewest> what would the accept header for that be?
  664. [19:32:57] <gsnedders> drewinthehead: ddi you get the thing for parsing names up on the wiki (I mean, out of the ideas page)?
  665. [19:33:26] <drewinthehead> kingryan: the default PHP http stuff
  666. [19:33:43] <kingryan> in php5?
  667. [19:33:45] <drewinthehead> gsnedders: yeah, it should be there
  668. [19:33:49] <drewinthehead> php5, yes
  669. [19:34:05] <bewest> get_file_contents($url) is easy
  670. [19:34:11] <bewest> how do you set the headers for that?
  671. [19:34:21] <kingryan> you don't
  672. [19:34:27] <bewest> what would be the apropriate accept header for csv data?
  673. [19:34:34] <kingryan> but if you're serious about http, you'll use something more advanced :D
  674. [19:34:37] <drewinthehead> bewest: that's what i'm using ...
  675. [19:34:50] <bewest> kingryan: KISS :-)
  676. [19:34:56] <drewinthehead> kingryan: i don't want to require users be serious
  677. [19:35:04] <gsnedders> drewinthehead: what page? I can't find it...
  678. [19:35:11] <drewinthehead> i'd like my users casual ;)
  679. [19:35:26] * ramseyp (n=ramseyp@macman.southwestern.edu) has joined #microformats
  680. [19:35:26] <kingryan> bewest: test/csv
  681. [19:35:33] <kingryan> per: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4180.txt
  682. [19:35:37] <drewinthehead> gsnedders: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-user-interface
  683. [19:35:37] * ichigo (n=ichigo@M938P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  684. [19:35:44] <gsnedders> drewinthehead: thanks
  685. [19:36:10] * alexandermuse (n=alexande@c-67-162-230-24.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  686. [19:36:47] <drewinthehead> i note that del.icio.us uses del.icio.us/rss, del.icio.us/json etc
  687. [19:36:56] <bewest> yeah
  688. [19:36:57] <bewest> it's nice
  689. [19:37:00] <bewest> well
  690. [19:37:04] <bewest> actually it's not, I guess
  691. [19:37:11] <bewest> now they have to maintain it forever
  692. [19:37:25] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  693. [19:37:27] <bewest> the cool uri article recommends making your uri's technology agnostic
  694. [19:37:41] <drewinthehead> those are
  695. [19:37:59] <bewest> hmmm
  696. [19:38:03] <drewinthehead> it's not beholding to the technology they use to process the request
  697. [19:38:13] <bewest> hmmm
  698. [19:38:18] <bewest> I disagree
  699. [19:38:20] <drewinthehead> that would be more like del.icio.us/json.php
  700. [19:38:29] <bewest> uri's point to a resource
  701. [19:38:32] <tantek> and it's not unnecessarily revealing that under the covers the backend is using php/asp/jsp/wtf/bbq etc.
  702. [19:38:43] <bewest> not a format
  703. [19:38:48] <tantek> right
  704. [19:38:50] <bewest> formats are technologically driven
  705. [19:38:59] * drewinthehead handles all the toughest requests with bbq.
  706. [19:39:00] <tantek> those are different resources i think is the point
  707. [19:39:10] <kingryan> remember, resouces and representations of those resources are two different things
  708. [19:39:15] <bewest> these uri's point to a specific format, not gaurantee a resource
  709. [19:39:15] <tantek> yes
  710. [19:39:22] <tantek> yes to kingryan that is
  711. [19:39:29] * bookwyrm_ (n=matt@207.111.218.47) Quit (No route to host)
  712. [19:39:47] <tantek> the "making your uri's technology agnostic" refers to the backend technology
  713. [19:39:50] <tantek> not to the format returned
  714. [19:39:51] <bewest> oh ok
  715. [19:39:55] * bewest cedes
  716. [19:41:07] * kingryan has to head out
  717. [19:41:12] * kingryan is now known as kingryan|away
  718. [19:41:27] <bewest> in that case the del.iciou.us uri's are pretty
  719. [19:41:37] <bewest> btw what is the right spelling for more than one uri?
  720. [19:41:43] <bewest> uris / uri's
  721. [19:41:55] <drewinthehead> URIs
  722. [19:42:22] <drewinthehead> i dunno :)
  723. [19:42:34] <alexandermuse> Perhaps it is both plural and singular.
  724. [19:42:47] <bewest> alexandermuse: sans "s" ???!
  725. [19:43:10] <alexandermuse> :) The URI were all formated correctly. The URI was wrong.
  726. [19:43:24] <bewest> hmmm
  727. [19:43:32] <bewest> identifiers
  728. [19:43:40] <bewest> UR identifiers
  729. [19:43:46] <drewinthehead> works for me, alexandermuse
  730. [19:43:46] <alexandermuse> Well if you put it that way...
  731. [19:44:43] <drewinthehead> ok, the reason i'm asking was that i was going to put my FN->N best-guess script online, with both xhtml and json output
  732. [19:45:20] <drewinthehead> and i can't work out what the uri should be
  733. [19:45:59] <tantek> URIs
  734. [19:46:18] <bewest> drewinthehead: code.domain.com/2006/07/best_guess?params....&output=<x>
  735. [19:47:44] <drewinthehead> i was thinking something like tools.domain.com/best-guess/thomas+vabder+wal
  736. [19:47:52] <bewest> hmm
  737. [19:48:29] <drewinthehead> in the style of feeds.technorati.com/contacts/http://...
  738. [19:50:03] <drewinthehead> but that leaves me in difficulty for working in the json option
  739. [19:50:04] <bewest> hmmm I did that for a mapping site: /<lat>,<lon>,<zoom>/<base64sessioninfo>/?<parameters>#<viewed_collections>
  740. [19:51:31] <bewest> (only to discover the fragment URL was being tossed out somewhere between the redirect and PHP)
  741. [19:51:42] * bewest shakes fist at mod_rewrite
  742. [19:52:21] <tantek> yeah, fragments can be tricky
  743. [19:52:26] <tantek> you're not the only one drew ;)
  744. [19:55:15] <bewest> you could go for tools.domain.com/<command>/<service name>/<manifest query data>?<parameters>
  745. [19:55:34] <bewest> command would be one of help, list, formats,
  746. [19:55:35] <bewest> erm
  747. [19:55:56] <bewest> /<command>/<format>/<service_name>/<manifest query>?params
  748. [19:56:12] <bewest> command is help, list, formats, query, action
  749. [19:56:20] <bewest> format is json, csv, html, et al
  750. [19:56:32] <bewest> service_name is best_guess
  751. [19:56:38] <drewinthehead> the problem with ?params is it becomes confusing if the query is a url
  752. [19:56:56] <bewest> <manifest_query>: usually there is one major piece of information associated with a query
  753. [19:57:03] <bewest> such as a URL
  754. [19:57:04] <bewest> or an id
  755. [19:57:08] <bewest> or something
  756. [19:57:15] <bewest> params is just extra tweaking
  757. [19:57:51] <drewinthehead> what if service_name and format were to be swapped?
  758. [19:58:08] <drewinthehead> tools.domain.com/best-guess/json/drew+mclellan
  759. [19:58:17] <bewest> what happened to <action>?
  760. [19:58:22] <drewinthehead> tools.domain.com/best-guess/xhtml/drew+mclellan
  761. [19:58:26] <drewinthehead> ah
  762. [19:58:45] <drewinthehead> don't need it, i don't think
  763. [19:58:46] <bewest> tools.domain.com/query/best-guess/xhtml/drew_mclellan?count=10
  764. [19:58:47] <drewinthehead> do i?
  765. [19:59:08] <bewest> tools.domain.com/help/best-guess would tell you what the service is about
  766. [19:59:27] <bewest> tools.domain.com/query/best-guess/xhtml/drew_mclellan?count=10 would actually perform the service
  767. [19:59:58] <bewest> tools.domain.com/formats/best-guess would describe what formats the service understands
  768. [20:00:09] <bewest> tools.domain.com/formats/best-guess/xhtml would describe what formats the service understands in xhtml
  769. [20:00:22] <bewest> tools.domain.com/formats/best-guess/csv would describe what formats the service understands in csv
  770. [20:00:59] <drewinthehead> tools.domain.com/formats/best-guess/braille ?
  771. [20:01:50] <bewest> tools.domain.com/query/best-guess/guess/<name> would perform the query and negotiate content type (ACCEPT header) to determine the output format to be used
  772. [20:02:31] * tantek (n=tantek@mail.amscan.org) Quit ()
  773. [20:02:34] <bewest> the thing is, I think the manifest query data should be as close to the service name as possible
  774. [20:03:07] <drewinthehead> and the format as simple as possible .. easy to remember
  775. [20:03:20] * ramseyp (n=ramseyp@macman.southwestern.edu) Quit ()
  776. [20:03:30] <bewest> drewinthehead: do you like the <action> part of the uri?
  777. [20:04:26] <drewinthehead> an alternative to <action> would be to have everything but the query at domain.com/best-guess/ (no tools.)
  778. [20:06:29] <bewest> I like tools.domain.com/<format>/<action>/<service name>/<manifest data>?<params>
  779. [20:06:33] <bewest> tools tells you the class of the thing
  780. [20:06:39] <bewest> it's in the tools section
  781. [20:06:42] <bewest> as opposed to the blog
  782. [20:07:10] <bewest> your choice though
  783. [20:07:29] <bewest> my experience is that I always need some <action> type of thing at some point or another
  784. [20:07:38] <bewest> even when people say they don't need it, we eventually do
  785. [20:07:46] <drewinthehead> :)
  786. [20:08:05] <bewest> <format> is just pretty cool, but could easily go into the <params>
  787. [20:08:20] <drewinthehead> tools.domain.com/json/query/best-guess/drew+mclellan ?
  788. [20:08:31] <bewest> yeah
  789. [20:09:06] <bewest> or tools.domain.com/json/query/best-guess/http://myhomepage.com?count=10 (guess the first ten names)
  790. [20:09:07] <drewinthehead> tools.domain.com/query/best-guess/as/json/drew+mclellan
  791. [20:09:14] <bewest> erm
  792. [20:09:20] <bewest> I don't like it
  793. [20:09:23] <bewest> I mean it looks pretty
  794. [20:09:31] <drewinthehead> tells a story :)
  795. [20:09:31] <bewest> but the /as/ really serves no purpose
  796. [20:09:50] <drewinthehead> you're right
  797. [20:09:51] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]")
  798. [20:09:52] <bewest> and it again separates the service name from the data its operating on
  799. [20:10:50] <drewinthehead> the issue with ?params is again that there's no way to tell which url the querystring belongs to
  800. [20:10:57] <bewest> um
  801. [20:11:01] <bewest> the url is always urlencoded
  802. [20:11:06] <bewest> :-)
  803. [20:11:33] <drewinthehead> not always! (users! pah!)
  804. [20:11:35] <bewest> so it's /best-guess/<url_encode($url)?params
  805. [20:11:37] <bewest> hehe
  806. [20:11:38] <bewest> well
  807. [20:12:03] <bewest> if there are two question marks everything up to the second belongs to the url
  808. [20:12:09] <bewest> if there is only one
  809. [20:12:19] <bewest> if the parameters are valid for your service, they are yours
  810. [20:12:24] <bewest> if they aren't, they belong to the url
  811. [20:12:48] <bewest> besides, there should be / in between
  812. [20:12:53] <bewest> so if there is a double: //
  813. [20:12:54] <drewinthehead> that would require namespaced params, but that's do-able
  814. [20:12:56] <bewest> then you know as well
  815. [20:13:01] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  816. [20:13:01] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  817. [20:13:15] <bewest> /http://my.homepage.com?querys/?params
  818. [20:13:28] <bewest> /http://my.homepage.com//?params
  819. [20:13:49] <drewinthehead> ok, well i'm not sure i need the ?params anyway, but there are some options there if i do
  820. [20:13:57] <bewest> there are always options
  821. [20:14:35] <bewest> anyway, if you get a script/mod_rewrite to parse that scheme...
  822. [20:14:39] <bewest> I'd like a copy :-D
  823. [20:14:53] <bewest> I have a really dumb version
  824. [20:15:02] <drewinthehead> so, tools.domain.com/query/json/best-guess/drew+mclellan
  825. [20:15:08] <bewest> I like it
  826. [20:15:23] <drewinthehead> where does that leave 'help' ?
  827. [20:15:31] <bewest> s/query/help
  828. [20:15:40] <bewest> tools.domain.com/help/json/best-guess
  829. [20:15:45] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  830. [20:15:45] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  831. [20:15:46] <bewest> tools.domain.com/help/html/best-guess
  832. [20:16:24] <drewinthehead> ok, that sort of works. you need to know which format you need help for
  833. [20:16:27] <bewest> tools.domain.com/help/guess/best-guess
  834. [20:16:49] <bewest> tools.domain.com/help/auto/best-guess
  835. [20:17:03] <drewinthehead> tools.domain.com/help/all/best-guess
  836. [20:17:11] <bewest> {guess,auto} negotiate content type via ACCEPT headers
  837. [20:17:23] <bewest> dunno about all
  838. [20:17:34] <bewest> anyway, you get to control what links you publish, anyway
  839. [20:17:42] <bewest> but people can request a format if they so desire
  840. [20:18:07] <drewinthehead> sounds like a plan
  841. [20:18:11] * Harry_Slaughter (n=harry@ip68-8-170-38.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #microformats
  842. [20:18:14] <bewest> that way someone can provide a novel new interface to your site
  843. [20:18:15] <drewinthehead> thanks, bewest
  844. [20:18:17] <bewest> sure
  845. [20:18:38] <bewest> sort of like delicious director -> delicious
  846. [20:19:03] <bewest> drewinthehead: is there anyway I could see the code you come up with to parse those requests?
  847. [20:19:09] <bewest> you using php primarily?
  848. [20:19:19] <bewest> I'd like to use it on my site as well
  849. [20:19:27] <bewest> I'll help work on it :-)
  850. [20:19:34] <drewinthehead> yup, PHP, and sure
  851. [20:19:37] <pnhChris> NUTS! http://placenamehere.com/temp/nuts.jpg
  852. [20:20:17] <drewinthehead> it's a bit of a mess at the moment ;)
  853. [20:20:48] <bewest> pnhChris: whatcha working on?
  854. [20:21:32] <pnhChris> that applescript for grabbing microformat data out of feed items
  855. [20:21:32] * kingryan|away is now known as kingryan
  856. [20:22:14] <pnhChris> going to wind up something like this after i get it working: http://placenamehere.com/temp/extractui.jpg
  857. [20:22:21] <pnhChris> (after you trigger the script)
  858. [20:22:53] <pnhChris> ... then just open the appropriate technorati service urls
  859. [20:28:41] * Harry_Slaughter (n=harry@ip68-8-170-38.sd.sd.cox.net) Quit ("http://devbee.com/")
  860. [20:29:16] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
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  863. [20:36:19] <kingryan> is anyone here having problems with the mailing list?
  864. [20:36:43] <kingryan> I"m working on debugging the problems and could use a hand
  865. [20:48:51] * alexandermuse (n=alexande@c-67-162-230-24.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has left #microformats
  866. [20:56:14] <drewinthehead> bewest: http://tools.microformatic.com/query/html/best-guess/mark+norman+francis
  867. [20:57:38] <bewest> drewinthehead: nice :-)
  868. [21:01:39] <bewest> should it be sent as text/html?
  869. [21:01:48] <drewinthehead> good question
  870. [21:02:01] <drewinthehead> as yet, i'm not sure.
  871. [21:04:39] <kingryan> I think you can send html fragments as text/html
  872. [21:06:40] <drewinthehead> ok. i'll need to make sure i'm escaping things properly in that case
  873. [21:07:23] <bewest> it's a bit strange to see plain text when the url says html
  874. [21:07:24] <bewest> :-)
  875. [21:07:58] <drewinthehead> experimental: http://tools.microformatic.com/query/json/best-guess/mark+norman+francis
  876. [21:09:40] <bewest> yay :-)
  877. [21:09:48] <bewest> do you need a php2js implementation?
  878. [21:11:02] <drewinthehead> i have one .. of sorts
  879. [21:11:26] <drewinthehead> i need to do a better job prepping the input first
  880. [21:12:21] <mfbot> [[start-simple]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=start-simple&diff=0&oldid=7304 * JumpAssociates * (-3)
  881. [21:13:10] <bewest> http://pastebin.ca/47407 <- recursive php2js
  882. [21:13:34] <kingryan> JumpAssociates just broke the english grammar on the wiki
  883. [21:13:40] <kingryan> does that deserve a rollback?
  884. [21:14:22] <bewest> one of the parameters takes a list of paths that tell the function which branches of a tree to turn into arrays vs hash/object
  885. [21:15:46] <bewest> kingryan: yeah, I dunno why he did that
  886. [21:15:58] <kingryan> rolling back...
  887. [21:16:03] <mfbot> [[start-simple]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=start-simple&diff=0&oldid=7305 * RyanKing * (+3) Reverted edit of JumpAssociates, changed back to last version by MarkRickerby
  888. [21:16:05] <bewest> "simple start" versus "starting simple"
  889. [21:16:27] <kingryan> he changed it to "The principle of simple start..."
  890. [21:16:36] <bewest> yeah
  891. [21:16:37] <kingryan> which sounds ungrammatical-ish to me
  892. [21:16:56] <bewest> maybe because "simple start" might be a noun
  893. [21:17:04] <bewest> the "simple start"
  894. [21:17:11] <bewest> as opposed to "the starting simple"
  895. [21:17:28] <bewest> but principle is the noun, not the start
  896. [21:18:31] <bewest> gah
  897. [21:18:37] <bewest> the title should be "Starting Simple"
  898. [21:18:44] <bewest> and it should read "Starting simple means..."
  899. [21:19:06] <bewest> "The principle of" makes it passive and wordy
  900. [21:19:08] <kingryan> actually, I think the pages in that set are all imperitives
  901. [21:19:21] <kingryan> oh, nm, I was thinking of the url
  902. [21:19:28] <bewest> yeah, the url is fine
  903. [21:19:42] <kingryan> well, if you have a suggestion...
  904. [21:19:45] <kingryan> it *is* a wiki
  905. [21:19:51] <bewest> we could "punt" as Tantek would say and just abreviate to "SS"
  906. [21:19:57] <bewest> and it would be forever ambiguous
  907. [21:27:21] <bewest> hmm what's the code to make link text?
  908. [21:27:28] <bewest> [[resuse] reusing] ?
  909. [21:27:38] <bewest> [[reuse | reusing]]?
  910. [21:27:57] <kingryan> dunno
  911. [21:27:59] <sreynen> you're not really changing it to "SS," are you?
  912. [21:30:39] <mfbot> [[start-simple]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=start-simple&diff=0&oldid=7306 * BenWest * (-83) Start Simple (Draft) -
  913. [21:31:10] <mfbot> [[start-simple]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=start-simple&diff=0&oldid=7307 * BenWest * (-1) Start Simple (Draft) -
  914. [21:31:11] <kingryan> good job bewest
  915. [21:31:31] <mfbot> [[start-simple]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=start-simple&diff=0&oldid=7308 * BenWest * (-18) Start Simple (Draft) -
  916. [21:32:09] <bewest> kingryan: my delete key is happy
  917. [21:32:25] <bewest> ironic that an article on being simple was filled with such complex language
  918. [21:33:16] <bewest> hmmm
  919. [21:33:21] * bewest is still unhappy with it
  920. [21:33:30] <bewest> it's not about being simple
  921. [21:33:32] <bewest> is't about reusing
  922. [21:34:07] <bewest> it is relatively content-free except for the bit about reuse; which is off topic
  923. [21:43:49] <kingryan> yeah, I'm not happy with it either
  924. [21:44:02] <kingryan> reuse and simplicity are only slightly related
  925. [21:44:10] <kingryan> you can reuse without being simple
  926. [21:44:31] <bewest> well... I'd say they aren't related at all
  927. [21:44:36] <bewest> it's just not the same topic
  928. [21:45:51] <bewest> but the line about reuse is a gem I'd say
  929. [21:46:07] <bewest> partly cause I edited it
  930. [21:46:12] <bewest> and added the word efficacy
  931. [21:46:40] <kingryan> that's a good word
  932. [21:47:15] <bewest> the the principle behind starting simple is basically this:
  933. [21:47:32] <bewest> instead of solving the general case, you solve a niche case
  934. [21:48:29] <bewest> instead of abstracting away complexity to force something to be simple, you deal with the problem as it appears
  935. [21:48:59] <bewest> you "punt" on complexity instead of abstracting it
  936. [21:49:00] * Harry_Slaughter (n=harry@ip68-8-170-38.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #microformats
  937. [21:50:01] <bewest> hmmm
  938. [21:51:16] <bewest> if history is the study of what happened, and historiography is the analysis of how history is done, then "the web" would consist of the content published, and the methods used, would would be the equiavelent for "web" as historiography is to history?
  939. [21:51:19] <bewest> webiography?
  940. [21:51:31] <bewest> that is the subject at hand, isn't it?
  941. [21:52:05] <bewest> the methods and principles in architecting the web, as opposed to the actual achitecting and publishing itself
  942. [21:59:39] <kingryan> yeah, good questions
  943. [21:59:43] <kingryan> I dunno
  944. [21:59:55] <kingryan> I think there's a university starting a program in web studies
  945. [21:59:56] * ajturner (n=irc@s233-64-126-217.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit ()
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  950. [22:51:09] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.231-81.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
  951. [22:51:09] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  952. [22:54:14] <bewest> salut :-)
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  959. [23:20:19] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  960. [23:23:45] * briansuda (i=briansud@ACA75A3F.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  961. [23:23:45] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  962. [23:24:42] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
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  964. [23:34:12] <pnhChris> slashdot points to an IBM article on microformats.... http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/11/2226256
  965. [23:34:17] <pnhChris> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-microformats/?ca=dgr-lnxw01Microformats
  966. [23:40:54] * ichigo (n=ichigo@M938P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  967. [23:42:00] <bewest> pnhChris: yeah, I linked to the ibm article awhile ago It hink
  968. [23:43:11] <pnhChris> ah.. i know there was one some time ago didn't realize it was the same one (this looks to be dated today)
  969. [23:43:11] <bewest> nm
  970. [23:43:18] <bewest> this is not the same article :-)
  971. [23:43:25] <bewest> which makes... TWO articles by IBM
  972. [23:43:51] <pnhChris> this ones very php-y
  973. [23:43:53] <pnhChris> :P
  974. [23:45:14] <kingryan> arg, he makes the same xpath mistakes as everyone else
  975. [23:45:15] <kingryan> :D
  976. [23:45:41] * kingryan wonders why xpath doesn't support tokenized attribute values
  977. [23:46:55] * kingryan is looking forward to what the slashdot comments say
  978. [23:47:49] <bewest> kingryan: not checking to make sure the attribute is a child of the root element?
  979. [23:48:20] <kingryan> no, he gets that right, because he's only working on that part of the tree
  980. [23:48:33] <kingryan> first problem:
  981. [23:48:38] <kingryan> $events = $xpath->query("//div[@class='vevent']");
  982. [23:48:44] <kingryan> you spot the problem?
  983. [23:49:00] <bewest> oh
  984. [23:49:02] <bewest> well
  985. [23:49:04] <bewest> heh
  986. [23:49:09] <kingryan> second problem:
  987. [23:49:10] <kingryan> $url = $xpath->query( ".//*[contains(@class,'url')]/@href", $event );
  988. [23:49:14] <bewest> it'd only work exactly for <div class="vevent"
  989. [23:49:16] <kingryan> I can see at least 2 problems here
  990. [23:49:32] <bewest> hmmm
  991. [23:49:40] <chucker_> should be .//, and *[], not div[]
  992. [23:49:42] * bewest is not familiar with xpath
  993. [23:49:56] <kingryan> you're right chucker_, there are two problems on that one
  994. [23:49:57] <kingryan> :D
  995. [23:49:59] <chucker_> not sure about the second
  996. [23:50:12] <kingryan> there's *at least* two problems with my second example
  997. [23:50:18] <kingryan> 'contains' is a string match
  998. [23:50:32] <kingryan> that would match 'class="hurl"'
  999. [23:50:37] <kingryan> ^ first problem
  1000. [23:50:37] <bewest> gah
  1001. [23:50:40] <bewest> heh
  1002. [23:50:41] <chucker_> it should be '\burl\b'
  1003. [23:50:41] <kingryan> second problem:
  1004. [23:50:47] <kingryan> it only pulls @href's
  1005. [23:50:56] <chucker_> because, otherwise, it would only match classes that contain *only* 'url'
  1006. [23:51:07] <kingryan> it needs to extract different things based on the element
  1007. [23:51:08] <bewest> what is \b?
  1008. [23:51:14] <kingryan> (object@data, for example)
  1009. [23:51:18] <bewest> ah
  1010. [23:51:27] <bewest> that's the way these articles go though
  1011. [23:51:44] <bewest> they are generally of poor quality... whether it's ALA, sitepoint, IBM...
  1012. [23:51:45] <kingryan> chucker_, I don't think 'contains' is a regex
  1013. [23:51:48] <kingryan> just a string match
  1014. [23:52:06] <kingryan> bewest: \b = 'word boundary'
  1015. [23:52:15] <chucker_> kingryan: should be matches(), not contains()
  1016. [23:52:19] <chucker_> then you can do \b
  1017. [23:52:31] <kingryan> also chucker_: in most regex libraries, \b matches '-'
  1018. [23:52:33] <chucker_> at least, I use it that way
  1019. [23:52:38] <bewest> the comments on slashdot are brain-numbing
  1020. [23:52:49] <chucker_> kingryan: hmm, I'm SOL then, because I use that. :D
  1021. [23:55:41] * briansuda (i=briansud@ACA75A3F.ipt.aol.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  1022. [23:56:07] <kingryan> I like this slashdot comment "Tell me something: What's it like to be retarded?"
  1023. [23:56:14] <kingryan> ref: http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=190904&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=15702305
  1024. [23:56:22] <bewest> heh
  1025. [23:56:25] <bewest> yeah I saw
  1026. [23:56:38] <bewest> it was a stupid comment though
  1027. [23:57:37] <kingryan> well, yeah, but you'd think people would have *low* expectations of slashdot comments
  1028. [23:58:15] <chucker_> so, does anyone have a good reference implementation of XPath-based microformats parsing? ;)
  1029. [23:58:37] <kingryan> http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V
  1030. [23:59:52] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")

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