IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:01:30] <chucker_> so, basically, the trick is contains(concat(' ',normalize-space(@class),' '),' someClass ')
  2. [00:01:39] <kingryan> yeah
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  7. [00:20:33] * cgriego (n=cgriego@64.213.47.252) has joined #Microformats
  8. [00:20:33] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
  9. [00:20:44] * cgriego (n=cgriego@64.213.47.252) has left #Microformats
  10. [00:31:56] <sreynen> ?def sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  11. [00:31:57] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  12. [00:33:04] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
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  16. [01:14:08] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  17. [01:19:10] * briansuda saw all the activity around XPath!
  18. [01:20:03] <briansuda> i emailed the author of the IBM article with pretty much all the points kingryan made.
  19. [01:20:35] <briansuda> those really are "Gotcha's!" along with detecting the local-name() and parsing depending on that.
  20. [01:21:00] <briansuda> i know it is just an introduction article, so i'm not too nit-picky.
  21. [01:21:34] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  22. [01:21:39] <kingryan> yeah, but people will copy and past that stuff
  23. [01:21:44] <kingryan> paste*
  24. [01:21:51] <AdamCraven> nice cheat sheet suda
  25. [01:21:57] <briansuda> true, true - i did email him
  26. [01:22:09] <AdamCraven> did you produce it yourself?
  27. [01:22:13] <briansuda> AdamCraven, thanks, keep checking back, i update it every once and awhile
  28. [01:22:27] <AdamCraven> lovely, it's great
  29. [01:22:46] <briansuda> i did make it all, i try to keep it up to date, and with all the a.include talk it will need some updating soon
  30. [01:22:59] <briansuda> Thanks, i'm glad you find it helpful.
  31. [01:23:15] <briansuda> it made it to the cssbeauty.com site and i have been getting loads of traffic
  32. [01:23:17] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@70-59-79-117.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  33. [01:23:18] <AdamCraven> indeed, the emails are rather interesting at the moment
  34. [01:23:26] <briansuda> it even made del.icio.us/popular
  35. [01:23:49] <AdamCraven> nothing like a bit of publicity
  36. [01:24:01] <AdamCraven> have you put it on digg yet?
  37. [01:24:27] <briansuda> it was unexpected, i made that PDF a few months ago and it only seems to have taken off after @media - something must have been said/linked
  38. [01:24:44] <briansuda> no i haven't put it on digg
  39. [01:25:23] <AdamCraven> Let me know if you do, I'm sure we'll all give it a digg if you do
  40. [01:25:24] <briansuda> ever since they made you login for stories i lost interest, my bugmenot was removed and i kinda gave-up
  41. [01:25:39] <AdamCraven> ah I see
  42. [01:25:51] <briansuda> well, anyone can add it if they want. hint hint
  43. [01:25:54] <AdamCraven> hehe
  44. [01:26:17] <AdamCraven> was planning to post and article or two up there soon, so I'll try to include it
  45. [01:26:43] <AdamCraven> on another subject, one microformat I'm wondering about that hasn't been developed yet
  46. [01:27:22] <AdamCraven> hProducts, a standard set for all types of products, such as perfume, aftershave, footballs, computer components
  47. [01:27:36] <AdamCraven> although it would be massive
  48. [01:27:40] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
  49. [01:27:54] <briansuda> there is an hListing which might cover some of that
  50. [01:28:09] <briansuda> it is more for classified, but it has to describe a product
  51. [01:29:04] <AdamCraven> just having a read now
  52. [01:29:55] <AdamCraven> interesting
  53. [01:30:04] <AdamCraven> it's sort of the thing I was thinking about
  54. [01:30:10] * kingryan has gone back to read more slashdot comments...
  55. [01:30:28] <kingryan> there's actually some good understanding from a few people - troll smackdown and all
  56. [01:31:24] <AdamCraven> Fields such as delivery costs, international shipping, may not be too amiss
  57. [01:32:06] <AdamCraven> availability
  58. [01:32:44] <AdamCraven> There would be a real demand for something so big and uniformed
  59. [01:33:50] <briansuda> edgio.com (sp?) is working on hListings for all their products, you should see what they are doing and/or add to the hListing-brainstorming page
  60. [01:36:05] <briansuda> Are there any German Spearkers in the house? This is a recent S5 presentation in German, http://yatil.de/webmontag/ka0706/ anyone care to translate and/or give feedback?
  61. [01:36:32] <kingryan> I can speak some german
  62. [01:36:38] <briansuda> Mikroformate! german for microformats
  63. [01:37:17] <briansuda> kingryan, have a go then, i'm just curious, it is only 15 slides, i have no idea what this was for? (obviously a microformats presentation)
  64. [01:37:32] <kingryan> a thing called 'web monday'
  65. [01:38:28] <ajturner> What are microformats? - Microformats are...
  66. [01:38:43] <ajturner> Design principles for fomat
  67. [01:38:46] <kingryan> "a method to think about data"
  68. [01:38:54] <kingryan> "design principles for formats"
  69. [01:39:02] <kingryan> "closely related to XHTML"
  70. [01:39:10] <kingryan> sounds familiar :D
  71. [01:39:40] <kingryan> "what do microformats do"?
  72. [01:39:42] <briansuda> yeah :) i found that through my referrers
  73. [01:39:48] <kingryan> "microformats"
  74. [01:39:54] <kingryan> "solve a specific problem"
  75. [01:40:02] <kingryan> "begin as small as possible"
  76. [01:40:15] <kingryan> "are build first for people and second for machines"
  77. [01:40:30] <ajturner> I like how the Examples "build" in the xhtml into the existing content (#6)
  78. [01:40:38] <kingryan> "reuse existing standards"
  79. [01:41:01] <kingryan> yeah, that's nice
  80. [01:41:38] <briansuda> ajturner, it is a nice effect, the different colours are effective in point out what is coming in and where data "lives"
  81. [01:41:43] <kingryan> nested incrementals
  82. [01:42:15] <kingryan> its one of the prettiest designs for source code I've seen
  83. [01:42:16] <ajturner> yeah, I think that is a really good technique for illustrating to people - so wait, what do I have to do to put in microformats?
  84. [01:42:32] <chucker_> http://yatil.de/webmontag/ka0706/ is well-done
  85. [01:43:08] <ajturner> ah, there is a german microformats wiki
  86. [01:43:09] <briansuda> can/how should we add this to the wiki presentations? with a translation or just a link or both?
  87. [01:43:13] <kingryan> and since he re-used our design with is creative commons share alike, I will have to use that design next time :D
  88. [01:43:33] <kingryan> um, does it matter?
  89. [01:43:42] <ajturner> is content released under CC which is put into a presentation template released under CC
  90. [01:43:43] <ajturner> ?
  91. [01:43:45] <kingryan> add a link, if someone wants to translate they can
  92. [01:43:50] <chucker_> briansuda: it's an overview giving various examples of how you can easily apply microformats to your existing markup, and why it's useful
  93. [01:44:09] <chucker_> briansuda: it's rather brief, but explained in very simple terms
  94. [01:44:11] <kingryan> ajturner: I'm talking about the slide designs (the css files themselves)
  95. [01:44:37] <ajturner> kingryan - ah, but I was curious about how content putinto a CC form was handled
  96. [01:44:43] <AdamCraven> briansuda: Cheers, will have a play through
  97. [01:44:44] <briansuda> i figured as much, it looks familiar to the ones kingryan and i have presented. I was just curios about who put this on
  98. [01:44:48] <kingryan> ask a lawyer
  99. [01:44:56] <chucker_> I suppose I could translate it some time this week
  100. [01:45:14] <ajturner> well, based on the examples - it referred to standard "Web Monday" talks
  101. [01:45:37] <briansuda> we have a french version of our wiki and now a Japanese version has been started, we should enlist some german speakers, there is obviously interest
  102. [01:45:47] <chucker_> I'm a native German speaker
  103. [01:46:18] <briansuda> chucker_ you might have just volunteered yourself!
  104. [01:46:22] <chucker_> hehe.
  105. [01:46:33] <chucker_> :)
  106. [01:46:36] <ajturner> briansuda - there is already a german mf wiki - http://mikroformate.pbwiki.com/
  107. [01:46:57] <ajturner> not quite as much info - not a full translation
  108. [01:47:11] <chucker_> ajturner: it would be beneficial, though, to have German pages matching those at microformats.org; this one has its own structure
  109. [01:47:13] <ajturner> hrm, a german mf google group :)
  110. [01:47:18] <ajturner> chucker_ agreed
  111. [01:47:32] <ajturner> I was just pointing out briansuda's pondering that there "might" be interest
  112. [01:47:37] <ajturner> I think there is definite interest
  113. [01:47:38] <chucker_> *nod*
  114. [01:47:39] <ajturner> :)
  115. [01:47:58] <ajturner> that's a nice thing about terms like addr - it's also 'addresse' ;)
  116. [01:48:09] <ajturner> though not hKart
  117. [01:48:14] <chucker_> one d, actually
  118. [01:48:19] <briansuda> you guys should lead the charge and start something, email the discuss list, i bet there are more german speakers on the list than you think
  119. [01:48:36] <chucker_> ajturner: well, "hKarte" :D
  120. [01:48:40] <ajturner> chucker_ - oh, I guess I usually mispell it then :/
  121. [01:48:57] <chucker_> it's two ds in English but one in German; quite confusing :)
  122. [01:49:34] <ajturner> Ich kann besser sprechen als schreiben - schade :p
  123. [01:49:48] <chucker_> that was flawless ;)
  124. [01:50:04] <ajturner> vielen dank
  125. [01:50:05] <mfbot> [[profile-uris]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=profile-uris&diff=0&oldid=7309 * ScottReynen * (+181) Resolved multiple profile URI issue from gmpg.org, added issue of lack of profiles
  126. [01:50:23] * chucker_ shall reboot
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  128. [01:51:01] <mfbot> [[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=7310 * Brian * (+200) added link to German presentation, translation needed
  129. [01:53:45] <kingryan> gotta run, later.
  130. [01:53:47] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  132. [01:57:42] <mfbot> [[hlisting-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7311 * Adam Craven * (+469)
  133. [02:00:38] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=7312 * Adam Craven * (+42) People on irc -
  134. [02:01:26] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  135. [02:02:44] <mfbot> [[irc]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=7313 * Adam Craven * (+0) People on irc -
  136. [02:03:31] <jibot> Promit is a Microsoft spy.
  137. [02:04:50] <mfbot> [[User:Adam Craven]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Adam_Craven * Adam Craven * (+78)
  138. [02:05:26] <mfbot> [[User:Adam Craven]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Adam_Craven&diff=0&oldid=7314 * Adam Craven * (+0)
  139. [02:08:02] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  140. [02:08:03] <jibot> edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
  141. [02:09:58] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=7315 * ScottReynen * (+185) added Profiler proxy
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  145. [02:32:37] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  148. [02:35:00] <pnhChris> mmm
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  151. [02:35:15] <pnhChris> .
  152. [02:35:20] <pnhChris> dats better
  153. [02:35:49] <pnhChris> and hmmm.... <span style="display: none"><vevent:event>
  154. [02:35:52] <pnhChris> joy
  155. [02:37:51] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.231-81.clta.globetrotter.net) Quit ()
  156. [02:39:31] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit (No route to host)
  157. [03:01:00] <pnhChris> anyone besides eventful have hcard or hcalendar in their feed?
  158. [03:02:55] <pnhChris> hmmm
  159. [03:16:35] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]")
  160. [03:19:51] <pnhChris> gah... why does NNW thinks it knows what to do with webcal:// feeds
  161. [03:25:31] * ichigo (n=ichigo@M871P017.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
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  163. [03:32:08] <pnhChris> some small updates tonight... though clearly from my grumbling a few minutes ago the NNW is stealing the subscribe url for itself... http://placenamehere.com/mf/nnwextract/
  164. [03:32:19] <pnhChris> still no writeup
  165. [03:34:00] <pnhChris> (if you weren't here earlier, css theme+applescript to work with microformats in feed items... http://placenamehere.com/temp/extractui.jpg )
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  170. [03:45:13] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  171. [03:45:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  179. [04:55:09] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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  189. [07:14:29] * boneill (n=bjon104@lich.ecs.soton.ac.uk) has joined #microformats
  190. [07:14:30] <jibot> boneill is Ben O'Neill, a 3rd year Software Engineering student - http://www.benedictoneill.com/
  191. [07:17:23] <mfbot> [[Main Page-jp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-jp&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+6352) Main Page-jp moved to Main Page-ja
  192. [07:18:14] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=7316 * Tantek * (+0) use language codes, not country codes
  193. [07:18:30] <mfbot> [[Main Page-sp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-sp&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+6606) Main Page-sp moved to Main Page-es
  194. [07:31:01] <mfbot> [[Main Page-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=7317 * IwaiMasaharu * (-6) 他の言語に翻訳するのをお手伝いください！ - フランス語の例を日本語の場合に直した
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  196. [07:34:12] <mfbot> [[introduction-jp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction-jp&diff=0&oldid=0 * IwaiMasaharu * (+9896) introduction-jp moved to introduction-ja
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  198. [07:34:38] <mfbot> [[press-jp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-jp&diff=0&oldid=0 * IwaiMasaharu * (+1911) press-jp moved to press-ja
  199. [07:34:54] <mfbot> [[presentation-jp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentation-jp&diff=0&oldid=0 * IwaiMasaharu * (+6203) presentation-jp moved to presentation-ja
  200. [07:36:00] <mfbot> [[Main Page-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=7318 * IwaiMasaharu * (+0) はじめに - use language codes, not country codes
  201. [07:38:12] <mfbot> [[microformats-jp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats-jp&diff=0&oldid=7319 * IwaiMasaharu * (-4958)
  202. [07:38:43] <mfbot> [[xoxo-jp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-jp&diff=0&oldid=0 * IwaiMasaharu * (+14089) xoxo-jp moved to xoxo-ja
  203. [07:39:09] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-jp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-jp&diff=0&oldid=0 * IwaiMasaharu * (+6029) rel-tag-jp moved to rel-tag-ja
  204. [07:39:50] <tantek> Thanks IwaiMasaharu!
  205. [07:40:10] <mfbot> [[Main Page-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=7320 * IwaiMasaharu * (+0) スペック - use language codes, not country codes
  206. [07:41:46] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489F720.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  207. [07:45:41] <mfbot> [[how-to-play-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play-ja&diff=0&oldid=7321 * Vant * (+32) #8が残っていたので翻訳。
  208. [07:50:01] * Ciaran (n=Ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  209. [07:59:03] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  210. [07:59:03] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  211. [08:07:43] <mfbot> [[press-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-ja&diff=0&oldid=7322 * Vant * (+3769) press(-en)の最新版と同期。翻訳開始。(Update in sync w/ the latest press-en info, now start translating.)
  212. [08:13:49] <mfbot> [[User:Vant]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Vant * Vant * (+174)
  213. [08:14:09] <Ciaran> Is it just me who finds it hard to refer to tags in sentences
  214. [08:14:29] <Ciaran> with attributes I can stick @ in front of them to make it clear what I'm talking about
  215. [08:14:43] <Ciaran> But things like 'It's better to use an a in there' look too weird
  216. [08:21:54] <boneill> It's better to use an <a> in there?
  217. [08:23:49] <Ciaran> they might think I don't want them to put any @s in
  218. [08:24:12] <Ciaran> I decided on capitalising it in the end, but now I'm worried I'll get capitalised HTML back from them
  219. [08:25:40] <mfbot> [[Main Page-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=7323 * IwaiMasaharu * (+3543) sync: english: 07:18, 12 Jul 2006
  220. [08:34:26] <mfbot> [[Main Page-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=7324 * IwaiMasaharu * (+1) 他言語でのmicroformats wiki - fixed syntax
  221. [08:36:37] <mfbot> [[Main Page-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=7325 * IwaiMasaharu * (+1) はじめに - fixed: link to english page
  222. [08:39:04] <mfbot> [[introduction-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction-ja&diff=0&oldid=7326 * IwaiMasaharu * (+0) using language code for page name
  223. [08:41:30] <mfbot> [[User:IwaiMasaharu]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:IwaiMasaharu * IwaiMasaharu * (+195)
  224. [08:44:46] <mfbot> [[User:IwaiMasaharu]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:IwaiMasaharu&diff=0&oldid=7327 * IwaiMasaharu * (+123)
  225. [08:52:02] <mfbot> [[User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map * IwaiMasaharu * (+230)
  226. [08:56:39] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ()
  227. [08:56:48] <mfbot> [[press-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-ja&diff=0&oldid=7328 * Vant * (+91)
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  231. [09:13:00] <mfbot> [[Main Page-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=7329 * IwaiMasaharu * (+49) 日本語の言い回しを変更
  232. [09:15:21] <mfbot> [[User:IwaiMasaharu]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:IwaiMasaharu&diff=0&oldid=7330 * IwaiMasaharu * (+18)
  233. [09:17:27] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  234. [09:17:37] <mfbot> [[User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map&diff=0&oldid=7331 * Vant * (+180)
  235. [09:18:38] * Jonnay (n=jonny@d199-126-185-156.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  236. [09:28:23] <mfbot> [[User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map&diff=0&oldid=7332 * IwaiMasaharu * (+0) sort
  237. [09:38:44] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@oliis.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  238. [09:38:45] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan - watch him, he's tricky.
  239. [09:39:40] <Ciaran> is this channel archived anywhere?
  240. [09:41:07] <trovster> Channel is logged: http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot'
  241. [09:44:48] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
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  243. [09:50:28] <Ciaran> thanks trovster
  244. [10:06:43] <drewinthehead> the /. crowd are unbelievable, aren't they?
  245. [10:06:55] <Ciaran> hah, I was reading though it earlier
  246. [10:07:10] <Ciaran> There is about 0.01% interesting comment and the rest is just idiots
  247. [10:09:26] <drewinthehead> i like the fact that totally misinformed replies are marked '3: Informative'
  248. [10:10:55] <drewinthehead> it's totally valid to disagree with what we're doing here, or to advocate a different approach, but these guys just lash out with the blind assumption that what you're doing is stupid and can be done better with {the first thing that pops into their head}
  249. [10:11:48] <Ciaran> I didn't think the linked article from IBM was that clear on what the aims of microformats were
  250. [10:12:14] <Ciaran> And most /. posters will have only read that (if they even RTFA)
  251. [10:14:02] <drewinthehead> they can't entertain the thought that technically competent people might have spent time researching this
  252. [10:14:51] <drewinthehead> <sarcasm>Of course! The META element! Why didn't WE think of that?! Doh!</sarcasm>
  253. [10:14:56] <drewinthehead> :)
  254. [10:14:57] <Ciaran> The OP should have at least linked to microformats.org in the article.
  255. [10:15:18] <Ciaran> Yeah did no-one tell you about RDF? You've been throwing your time away!
  256. [10:15:35] <trovster> Link.
  257. [10:16:11] <Ciaran> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/12/0016211
  258. [10:16:36] <Ciaran> oh wait no that's not right
  259. [10:16:55] <Ciaran> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/11/2226256 sorry
  260. [10:17:36] <Ciaran> "I'm sure the LISP community would love to hear about this brand-new idea of embedding specialy, or domain-specific if you will, languages and data." is moderated as 5:Insightful
  261. [10:17:43] <Ciaran> wha?
  262. [10:19:25] <Ciaran> The main portal we develop has property listings on it... is there a relevant microformat?
  263. [10:20:07] <Ciaran> hReview probably seems closest
  264. [10:22:04] <drewinthehead> there's some stuff with listings in development
  265. [10:22:47] <drewinthehead> http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-proposal
  266. [10:22:53] <Ciaran> how can I help? ;-)
  267. [10:24:25] <drewinthehead> good question .. i'm not sure who's working on it, but it doesn't seem to have moved forward in a little while
  268. [10:24:36] <drewinthehead> at least, not that i've seen
  269. [10:25:19] <Ciaran> We have two major bits of our portal: property listings and a product catalogue
  270. [10:25:52] <Ciaran> I'll read up on the wiki I guess
  271. [10:26:20] <drewinthehead> yeah, it looks like it'd be quite well suited to property listings
  272. [10:31:13] * tantek (n=tantek@h-68-167-74-227.nycmny83.covad.net) Quit ()
  273. [10:32:00] <Ciaran> uh, if I have a point I'd like to make on the feedback page, do I just jump in and edit?
  274. [10:33:39] <Ciaran> or is that rude?
  275. [10:39:27] <Ciaran> Are any of the hListing people on at the moment?
  276. [10:39:57] <Ciaran> There's some reference to retail product listings being out of scope, but I really can't see what the difference between listings and a catalogue of products is
  277. [10:41:37] <drewinthehead> i think you're ok to dump feedback onto that feedback page
  278. [10:41:55] <drewinthehead> probably best to post to mf-discuss and link to your comments too
  279. [10:46:06] <Ciaran> cool
  280. [11:01:47] * Ciaran (n=Ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
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  288. [12:02:46] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  289. [12:02:46] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  290. [12:08:42] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  291. [12:40:38] <drewinthehead> JSON interface for best-guess is now better polished
  292. [12:40:50] <drewinthehead> (caution: served as application/json) http://tools.microformatic.com/query/json/best-guess/your+name+here
  293. [12:42:46] <mfbot> [[stable-pages-ja]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/stable-pages-ja * IwaiMasaharu * (+652) english: 00:33, 28 Oct 2005
  294. [12:42:49] <trovster> Based off your PHP drewinthehead?
  295. [12:43:17] <drewinthehead> yes, trovster
  296. [12:43:39] <drewinthehead> the normal xhtml output is here: http://tools.microformatic.com/query/xhtml/best-guess/your+name+here
  297. [12:44:07] <mfbot> [[stable-pages-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=stable-pages-ja&diff=0&oldid=7333 * IwaiMasaharu * (+36) link to *-ja pages
  298. [12:45:58] <Ciaran_> drewinthehead - why does it sometimes produce an XHTML fragment and sometimes plaintext?
  299. [12:46:40] <drewinthehead> it's always an xhtml fragment - just sometimes extra elements are not required :)
  300. [12:46:56] <drewinthehead> the goal is to take a name and output a valid value for FN
  301. [12:47:25] <drewinthehead> so if it meets the rules for implied-n or implied-nickname optimisation, then no processing is required
  302. [12:47:34] <Ciaran_> ah-hah
  303. [12:48:07] <Ciaran_> so the output is what the content of the fn element should be?
  304. [12:48:13] <drewinthehead> exactly
  305. [12:48:36] <drewinthehead> do you think that's a good approach?
  306. [12:48:49] <Ciaran_> sure
  307. [12:48:57] <Ciaran_> It's a shame that you have to nest the n inside the fn
  308. [12:49:06] <Ciaran_> but I can't think of a better approach
  309. [12:49:29] <drewinthehead> i figured that was a reliable approach, and one which keeps things simple
  310. [12:49:55] <Ciaran_> is the source published anywhere?
  311. [12:50:02] <drewinthehead> not yet
  312. [12:50:42] <drewinthehead> it's not too pretty ... i'm going to clean it up
  313. [12:52:19] <drewinthehead> there's nothing fancy in there, it's just a codified version of http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-user-interface#Single_Input_Field_for_Names
  314. [12:54:57] <drewinthehead> the json is using Services_JSON from PEAR
  315. [12:57:14] * bookwyrm (n=matt@user-11fa4r8.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  316. [12:57:25] <Ciaran_> The n optimisation assumes firstname-lastname?
  317. [12:58:07] <Ciaran_> it's a shame you can't guess it from charset or something
  318. [12:59:22] <trovster> If the page has lang="jp" or something, then you might have to reverse the first-last name syntax?
  319. [12:59:37] <Ciaran_> Not very practical I guess
  320. [13:00:15] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) Quit ()
  321. [13:01:23] <mfbot> [[stable-pages-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=stable-pages-ja&diff=0&oldid=7334 * IwaiMasaharu * (+131) ほとんどを翻訳
  322. [13:01:28] <drewinthehead> implied-n optimization has about 5 different name formats
  323. [13:01:36] <drewinthehead> all of them 'western' I guess
  324. [13:02:24] <drewinthehead> not as in clint eastwood
  325. [13:02:56] <Ciaran_> He'd be <span class="fn"/>
  326. [13:03:03] * Ciaran_ wonders if anyone gets that
  327. [13:03:24] <mfbot> [[User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map&diff=0&oldid=7335 * IwaiMasaharu * (+34) add Community
  328. [13:03:53] <drewinthehead> Ciaran_: the man with no name, right? :)
  329. [13:03:57] <Ciaran_> yay
  330. [13:04:20] <drewinthehead> now with serialised PHP: http://tools.microformatic.com/query/php/best-guess/your+name+here
  331. [13:06:14] <Ciaran_> I'm not convinced I'm going to start loading arbitrary objects from remote URLs, but nice ;-)
  332. [13:06:55] <drewinthehead> seems to be popular with the folks at Y!
  333. [13:07:45] <Ciaran_> I guess you have to *really* trust the server not to send you an object with rm -rf / in
  334. [13:08:03] <drewinthehead> i'm not sure that you can, can you?
  335. [13:08:25] <Ciaran_> TBH I'm not sure
  336. [13:08:31] <mfbot> [[Main Page-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=7336 * IwaiMasaharu * (+8) 他言語でのmicroformats wiki -
  337. [13:09:17] <Ciaran_> I don't see why not though...
  338. [13:10:22] <drewinthehead> http://developer.yahoo.com/common/phpserial.html
  339. [13:11:03] <drewinthehead> are you thinking of a serialised object with a wake method?
  340. [13:13:36] <drewinthehead> __wakeup() was the one i was thinking of. gets called when the object is unserialized
  341. [13:15:02] <Ciaran_> yeah
  342. [13:15:09] <drewinthehead> back in a while .. lunch :)
  343. [13:15:12] <Ciaran_> what's to stop that doing something... bad?
  344. [13:22:03] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  345. [13:22:03] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  346. [13:26:41] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  347. [13:26:42] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  348. [13:30:40] * drewinthehead is back
  349. [13:31:21] <drewinthehead> Ciaran_: that's a valid point, and worth testing
  350. [13:32:42] <Ciaran_> drewinthehead - Certainly in local testing I can request an object from a remote page that does an echo on __wakeup
  351. [13:32:49] <Ciaran_> I'm not going to test the rm -rf thing ;-)
  352. [13:33:07] <boneill> well most PHP configs won't allow you to run system commmands
  353. [13:33:48] <Ciaran_> sure but you still shouldn't include('http://remotehost') willy-nilly right?
  354. [13:34:12] <drewinthehead> or mail() $_SESSION back to base
  355. [13:34:55] <Ciaran_> aaah wait it's ok
  356. [13:35:10] <boneill> oh indeed, including some data from somewhere else is mad
  357. [13:35:13] <Ciaran_> If the class isn't defined, it'll be cast to stdClass and lose its functions
  358. [13:35:17] <boneill> unless you really really *really* trust the source
  359. [13:35:38] <drewinthehead> ah
  360. [13:35:47] <Ciaran_> the methods don't appear to be in the serialised code... I was just being over-cautious
  361. [13:35:57] * Ciaran_ shuts up again
  362. [13:36:05] <drewinthehead> the best approach. Ciaran_
  363. [13:37:57] * Ciaran wonders what's going on in this channel
  364. [13:42:29] * markp (n=markp@adsl-150-154-240.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  365. [13:45:59] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489F720.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  366. [13:46:00] <Ciaran_> drewinthehead - There seems to be some usage of application/vnd.php.serialized for serialised PHP, but it's not massively widespread
  367. [13:46:06] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) has joined #microformats
  368. [13:46:06] <jibot> evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
  369. [13:46:46] * drewinthehead wishes someone would maintain a list of what to serve as what
  370. [13:47:51] <drewinthehead> i'm still not sure what to serve atom as
  371. [13:48:31] <boneill> application/atom+xml ?
  372. [13:48:43] <evanpro> to serve man
  373. [13:49:19] <Ciaran_> boneill - problem is browsers tend to download it
  374. [13:49:27] <Ciaran_> mind you that'll change I'd presume
  375. [13:49:36] <boneill> hopefully :)
  376. [13:49:38] <drewinthehead> is that necessarily incorrect?
  377. [13:49:43] <evanpro> "Don't get on the ship. The book, To Serve Atom, IT'S A COOKBOOK!"
  378. [13:49:58] <evanpro> The other thing you can do is some content negotiation
  379. [13:50:10] <Ciaran_> drewinthehead - it's only incorrect if you think non-atom-savvy browsers should render the XML
  380. [13:50:29] <Ciaran_> drewinthehead - interesting comprimise here: http://comox.textdrive.com/pipermail/wp-hackers/2006-February/004384.html
  381. [13:51:49] <drewinthehead> sod it, i'll serve as application/atom+xml if that's the ideal
  382. [13:52:33] <drewinthehead> this is for a web service, so someone hitting it with a browser is a secondary concern
  383. [13:53:04] <Ciaran_> You could argue the Atom feed should be the same URL as the HTML equivalent and just use content-negotiation
  384. [13:53:35] <Ciaran_> rather the (X)HTML with hAtom equivalent
  385. [13:55:22] <Ciaran> yay my PEAR account got activated \o/
  386. [14:02:53] <drewinthehead> my hAtom2Atom implementation is now here: http://tools.microformatic.com/query/atom/hatom/http://...
  387. [14:03:15] * drewinthehead wonders if query should be transcode
  388. [14:04:23] <drewinthehead> it's now transcode.
  389. [14:04:59] <drewinthehead> http://tools.microformatic.com/transcode/atom/hatom/http://...
  390. [14:13:16] * bookwyrm (n=matt@user-11fa4r8.dsl.mindspring.com) Quit ()
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  398. [14:32:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  399. [14:32:56] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  400. [14:34:52] * bookwyrm (n=matt@user-11fa4r8.dsl.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  401. [14:36:15] <mfbot> [[stable-pages-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/stable-pages-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+945)
  402. [14:40:37] * Ciaran_ is now known as CiaranMc
  403. [14:40:48] * CiaranMc is now known as CMcNulty
  404. [14:41:39] * CMcNulty is now known as CiaranMc
  405. [14:46:50] * bookwyrm (n=matt@user-11fa4r8.dsl.mindspring.com) Quit ()
  406. [14:53:25] * CiaranMc (n=Ciaran@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) Quit ("i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)")
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  408. [14:58:26] * cdevroe (n=cdevroe@c-WBD-72-28-44-131.echoes.net) has joined #microformats
  409. [14:58:27] <jibot> cdevroe is Colin D. Devroe, blogs at http://cdevroe.com/, lives in Clifford, PA, USA and helps run the 9rules Network
  410. [15:05:41] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/relpayment-research-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+15109)
  411. [15:06:12] <drewinthehead> hi cdevroe
  412. [15:07:14] <cdevroe> Hello Mr. McLellan.
  413. [15:08:01] * boneill (n=bjon104@lich.ecs.soton.ac.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  414. [15:08:17] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) has joined #Microformats
  415. [15:08:17] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
  416. [15:08:24] * CiaranMc is now known as McNulty
  417. [15:09:30] <McNulty> Hi Ciaran.
  418. [15:09:44] <McNulty> I think I've been masquerading as you for a couple of days.
  419. [15:11:58] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=relpayment-research-fr&diff=0&oldid=7337 * ChristopheDucamp * (+268) RelPayment - translation in progress
  420. [15:12:35] <drewinthehead> i've actually put some instructions up now .. wonders will never cease: http://tools.microformatic.com/
  421. [15:13:56] <McNulty> drewinthehead - very nice
  422. [15:14:18] <McNulty> "hCard n buest guess"
  423. [15:14:21] <McNulty> :-)
  424. [15:14:29] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=relpayment-research-fr&diff=0&oldid=7338 * ChristopheDucamp * (+63) Métadonnée Visible -
  425. [15:14:34] <drewinthehead> gah .. *always* typing that!
  426. [15:14:35] <Ciaran> McNulty: then I believe I've killed you twice :P
  427. [15:14:51] <McNulty> Could well be, sorry didn't realise the nick was taken ;-)
  428. [15:15:49] * drewinthehead is thankful it wasn't "bust guess" - that would make for an interesting web service
  429. [15:16:07] <jibot> MacDome is a WebKit hacker emeritus and working 17 hour days trying to get this damn website out the door...
  430. [15:16:35] <Ciaran> jibot: what am I?
  431. [15:17:33] <McNulty> How would I register with jibot?
  432. [15:21:32] <pnhChris> http://microformats.org/wiki/irc#Greetings
  433. [15:21:40] * Harry_Slaughter (n=harry@ip68-8-170-38.sd.sd.cox.net) Quit ("http://devbee.com/")
  434. [15:22:33] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  435. [15:22:34] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  436. [15:22:44] <pnhChris> so drew.. don't know if you caught it but i updated that applescript last night... need to figure out ho to not make NNW think it knows what webcal:// is though before it gets "released"
  437. [15:24:19] <drewinthehead> parse error
  438. [15:24:33] <drewinthehead> how to not make NNW think? i'm lost!
  439. [15:24:42] <pnhChris> hehe
  440. [15:24:59] <pnhChris> this thing: http://placenamehere.com/temp/extractui.jpg
  441. [15:25:55] <drewinthehead> yup
  442. [15:26:01] <cdevroe> Is webcal:// something that will invoke iCal?
  443. [15:26:03] <pnhChris> i'm just using apple script to open the right technorati urls based on the choice.. NNW does fine handing off http:// to another app (based on its settings)
  444. [15:26:16] <drewinthehead> ok
  445. [15:26:27] <pnhChris> but it trys to subscribe to webcal itself
  446. [15:26:34] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  447. [15:26:37] <pnhChris> and doesn't do a good job of it :P
  448. [15:26:44] <drewinthehead> rather than handing it off to iCal?
  449. [15:27:01] <pnhChris> or whatever the system defaults to , yeah
  450. [15:27:23] <cdevroe> That could be the fault of the system preferences. iCal should be the default calendar application for that to be invoked properly.
  451. [15:27:30] <pnhChris> no.. its a NNW
  452. [15:27:31] <pnhChris> thing
  453. [15:27:37] <pnhChris> and a script thing
  454. [15:27:57] <drewinthehead> so what does NNW think it can do with a calendar file?
  455. [15:28:11] <pnhChris> subscribe to it
  456. [15:28:26] <cdevroe> That doesn't make sene.
  457. [15:28:28] <cdevroe> *sense.
  458. [15:28:39] <pnhChris> its a nww/applescript thing basically
  459. [15:28:43] <cdevroe> The protocol itself will force OS X to choose an application to launch.
  460. [15:29:02] <pnhChris> because its the active app my "dumb" "open location blah" call gets caught by NNW and not let through
  461. [15:29:18] <cdevroe> Whether it be FTP:// HTTP:// WEBCAL:// or FEED:// OS X will choose the right appliction.
  462. [15:29:35] <pnhChris> right cdevroe, kinda
  463. [15:29:42] <pnhChris> the call doesn't get to OS X
  464. [15:29:45] <cdevroe> I see. So, rather than that, have the AppleScript open iCal?
  465. [15:29:46] <pnhChris> if NNW is the active app
  466. [15:30:03] <pnhChris> i'd rather get around NNW
  467. [15:30:10] <pnhChris> rather then be explicit
  468. [15:30:25] <pnhChris> but I haven't really spent enough time looking at it to know what i can do
  469. [15:30:58] <pnhChris> (not really much of an applescript hacker.. just poking at it to get some stuff done)
  470. [15:31:31] <ajturner> pnhChris - if you want a reference, the Rosenthal Applescript book is great
  471. [15:31:36] <cdevroe> Yeah, I'm like a monkey f*cking a coconut in AppleScript.
  472. [15:31:42] <cdevroe> But this might do the trick.
  473. [15:31:43] <cdevroe> tell application "iCal"
  474. [15:31:43] <cdevroe> launch
  475. [15:31:43] <cdevroe> activate
  476. [15:31:43] <cdevroe> open file URL here
  477. [15:31:44] <cdevroe> end tell
  478. [15:32:13] <pnhChris> it would cdevroe ... but then i'm using ical explicitly
  479. [15:32:31] <pnhChris> which is probably ok most of the time.. but i'd rather be better then that if i can figure it out
  480. [15:32:55] <pnhChris> i'll probably just try telling finder or something
  481. [15:33:01] <pnhChris> and see what happens :P
  482. [15:33:05] <cdevroe> Well, as a start I suppose. Maybe a preference could be added down the road, or a drop down box with a list of compatible applications (Sunbird or whatever it is called)
  483. [15:33:37] <cdevroe> Yeah, perhaps telling the Finder might do it.
  484. [15:34:35] <drewinthehead> sounds sensible ...
  485. [15:36:11] <pnhChris> and i do need to pick up that book.. its just every time i look to do one of these little scripts i'm done with it before I actually get to ordering it
  486. [15:37:42] <cdevroe> pnhChris: I definitely need to brush up on AppleScript. I've never done anything hefty with it, but I've begun efforts to export Address Book contacts to an XHTML file with the hCard spec (and possible XFN using custom fields). But I've only begun to make any type of progress.
  487. [15:38:25] * boneill (n=boneill@i-83-67-41-33.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
  488. [15:38:26] <jibot> boneill is Ben O'Neill, a 3rd year Software Engineering student - http://www.benedictoneill.com/
  489. [15:39:35] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  490. [15:45:34] <pnhChris> here's the script / stlesheet for NNW if you want to poke around at it... seems to work ok besides the webcal thing... need to make the microformat "discovery" inside the script a bit smarter too: http://placenamehere.com/mf/nnwextract/
  491. [15:45:55] <pnhChris> still need to write it up.. but its basically bookmarlet-ish
  492. [15:46:27] <pnhChris> add some css to identify that a card or event is in the post.. then run the script to sent the permalink to technorati
  493. [15:47:24] <pnhChris> just a simple short term kinda solution
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  495. [15:49:46] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=relpayment-research-fr&diff=0&oldid=7339 * ChristopheDucamp * (+65) typo
  496. [15:58:23] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=relpayment-research-fr&diff=0&oldid=7340 * ChristopheDucamp * (+74)
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  498. [16:03:54] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=relpayment-research-fr&diff=0&oldid=7341 * ChristopheDucamp * (+162) Application pour addition vers l'enregistrement Atom des relations de liens -
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  500. [16:06:10] <mfbot> [[start-simple]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=start-simple&diff=0&oldid=7342 * JumpAssociates * (+88)
  501. [16:07:40] * benoneill is now known as boneill
  502. [16:10:21] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=relpayment-research-fr&diff=0&oldid=7343 * ChristopheDucamp * (+204) Art Inital -
  503. [16:10:57] <mfbot> [[User talk:BenWest]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:BenWest * JumpAssociates * (+85)
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  506. [16:14:28] <McNulty> ?def McNulty is Ciaran McNulty who works for maximalls.com and is present at ciaranmcnulty.com
  507. [16:14:30] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty who works for maximalls.com and is present at ciaranmcnulty.com
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  509. [16:16:09] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=relpayment-research-fr&diff=0&oldid=7344 * ChristopheDucamp * (+198) Exemples dans la jungle -
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  513. [16:18:41] <McNulty> ?def McNulty is Ciaran McNulty from ciaranmcnulty.com who lives in London and works for maximalls.com
  514. [16:18:42] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty who works for maximalls.com and is present at ciaranmcnulty.com and Ciaran McNulty from ciaranmcnulty.com who lives in London and works for maximalls.com
  515. [16:19:50] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=relpayment-research-fr&diff=0&oldid=7345 * ChristopheDucamp * (+142) Outils qui supportent actuellement RelPayment -
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  532. [17:53:04] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/robots-exclusion-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+9782)
  533. [17:54:00] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion-fr&diff=0&oldid=7346 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1) Profil URI -
  534. [17:54:21] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion-fr&diff=0&oldid=7347 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) Profil URI -
  535. [17:56:50] * boneill (n=boneill@i-83-67-41-33.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
  536. [17:56:51] <jibot> boneill is Ben O'Neill, a 3rd year Software Engineering student - http://www.benedictoneill.com/
  537. [17:57:07] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion-fr&diff=0&oldid=7348 * ChristopheDucamp * (+60) XMDP Profile -
  538. [18:02:03] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion-fr&diff=0&oldid=7349 * ChristopheDucamp * (+117) Examples -
  539. [18:03:14] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion-fr&diff=0&oldid=7350 * ChristopheDucamp * (+30) References -
  540. [18:03:57] <bewest> there are one or two comments from the slashdot posting of IBM's uformats article
  541. [18:04:20] <bewest> that I believe are representative of the objections many have of microformats
  542. [18:04:40] <bewest> it boils down to namespace scoping and abuse of class as CDATA
  543. [18:08:38] <bewest> and as a tertiary objection, the UI trouble that may result from agents getting clever with the title attribute
  544. [18:17:04] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  545. [18:17:05] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion-fr&diff=0&oldid=7351 * ChristopheDucamp * (+506) Issues -
  546. [18:17:18] * ChanServ sets mode +o KevinMarks
  547. [18:17:37] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion-fr&diff=0&oldid=7352 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) Exemples -
  548. [18:17:53] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion-fr&diff=0&oldid=7353 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) Exemples -
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  550. [18:18:14] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion-fr&diff=0&oldid=7354 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2) Précédence -
  551. [18:18:25] <mfbot> [[robots-exclusion-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=robots-exclusion-fr&diff=0&oldid=7355 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) Appropriation en tant que microformat -
  552. [18:26:11] <mfbot> [[examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7356 * ChristopheDucamp * (+83) Bons Exemples d'Exemples -
  553. [18:27:33] * mraichelson (n=mraichel@static-68-163-73-3.res.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  554. [18:31:17] <mfbot> [[media-info-examples-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/media-info-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+15819) Structure translated
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  557. [18:38:56] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  558. [18:38:57] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  559. [18:40:21] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  560. [18:44:45] <mraichelson> for those keeping score: had a client meeting yesterday with some people who were very receptive to the idea of microformatting a lot of stuff on their site. ;)
  561. [18:46:34] <pnhChris> ever find a resolution to the table issue, or just fall back to divs?
  562. [18:46:54] <mfbot> [[media-info-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7357 * ChristopheDucamp * (+32)
  563. [18:47:28] <mraichelson> switched to DIVs instead. it really made more sense in teh markup anyway, i was just being sorta lazy when i did it in tables to begin with.
  564. [18:47:57] <mraichelson> it was more a repeated structure on the page, then part of one block of stuff, really.
  565. [18:48:00] <pnhChris> guess you could have merged the name cell too.. if you wanted
  566. [18:48:38] <pnhChris> still an interesting markup issue
  567. [18:48:49] <pnhChris> if you really had a table of contacts
  568. [18:49:42] * mraichelson nods
  569. [18:59:37] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  570. [18:59:38] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  571. [19:05:58] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  572. [19:05:58] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan - watch him, he's tricky.
  573. [19:08:15] <drewinthehead> evenin' all
  574. [19:08:40] <mraichelson> hola
  575. [19:34:55] * edsu (n=esummers@rsinger.library.gatech.edu) Quit ("Lost terminal")
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  581. [20:12:37] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=7358 * RobertBachmann * (+39) People on irc -
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  588. [21:09:13] * DanC (n=connolly@64-126-89-30-dhcp-kc.everestkc.net) has joined #microformats
  589. [21:09:15] <jibot> DanC is Dan Connolly http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
  590. [21:09:41] * tantek (n=tantek@dhcpvisitor21797.slac.stanford.edu) has joined #microformats
  591. [21:09:41] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  592. [21:10:06] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  593. [21:11:39] * DanC tunes in for office hours, swaps in http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do#Dan_Connolly
  594. [21:11:48] <DanC> hmm... include-pattern...
  595. [21:11:59] * DanC looks around to see if that got resolved
  596. [21:12:34] <DanC> calsify IETF meeting was today; I wonder if the jabber logs show anything interesting/relevant
  597. [21:14:03] <drewinthehead> DanC: are you talking about the a.include variation on the include-pattern?
  598. [21:14:16] * DanC finds http://www.ietf.org/meetings/ietf-logs/calsify/2006-07-12.html
  599. [21:14:39] <tantek> DanC, we made some good progress on include-pattern
  600. [21:14:42] <qid> there was some more activity on the mailing list about include, I think using <a> has been accepted as a kludgier but better-supported alternative
  601. [21:14:56] <tantek> <a href="..." class="include">
  602. [21:15:01] <tantek> no type attribute
  603. [21:15:12] <drewinthehead> concerns were raised over problems with screen readers
  604. [21:15:18] <tantek> there are unresolved accessibiilty issues
  605. [21:15:18] * valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
  606. [21:15:19] <qid> it does kinda still make sense, if you think of it as a pointer
  607. [21:15:25] <tantek> but I'm pretty sure they are resolvable
  608. [21:15:28] <DanC> I'm talking about whether (a) include-pattern works on the referenced element and its children or (b) include-pattern works only on children of the referenced element
  609. [21:15:40] * tantek vaguely remembers that tabindex="0" takes an element out of the tab-navigation
  610. [21:15:58] <tantek> DanC, referenced element
  611. [21:15:59] <qid> tantek: there may be CSS for that
  612. [21:16:26] <tantek> for what?
  613. [21:16:34] <DanC> tantek, do you know if the tests and x2v have been updated to do (a) ?
  614. [21:16:54] <tantek> I think Brian coded support for a.include
  615. [21:16:58] <tantek> into x2v
  616. [21:17:03] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  617. [21:17:03] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
  618. [21:17:04] <tantek> and drew was working on it in his parser
  619. [21:17:15] <drewinthehead> yup, i'm done
  620. [21:17:38] <qid> "Those elements that do not support the tabindex attribute or support it and assign it a value of "0" are navigated next."
  621. [21:18:36] * DanC reviews hg changes since Jun 29 or so
  622. [21:18:52] <qid> so if you follow the spec, tabindex="0" doesn't remove it from the tab order, just sticks it at the end
  623. [21:19:23] <tantek> maybe it was -1
  624. [21:19:26] <tantek> i need to check
  625. [21:19:56] <qid> yeah, negative values aren't mentioned, so that might do the trick
  626. [21:20:18] <tantek> DanC, did you get any conclusions from that IRC log you cited?
  627. [21:21:14] <DanC> no, just started looking at CALSIFY IRC log. I saw some hints that they're not going to do the "shave off the corners and go to DRAFT Standard" but go right into "redesign it an go back to Proposed Standard" :-/
  628. [21:21:40] <DanC> I argued pretty hard for going to DRAFT back in March, I think
  629. [21:21:42] <McNulty_> I think HTML4.01 tab indexes have to be non-negative
  630. [21:22:21] <qid> oh, whoops
  631. [21:22:30] <qid> "This value must be a number between 0 and 32767. User agents should ignore leading zeros."
  632. [21:22:55] <McNulty_> there is an @disabled that takes an element out of the tabbing order, but doesn't apply to A
  633. [21:23:37] <McNulty_> I don't know how to solve it without a scripted onfocus event
  634. [21:24:42] <qid> a.include { display: none; } perhaps...
  635. [21:25:31] <drewinthehead> but by that point you're regained the complexity we were trying to shed with object
  636. [21:26:08] <McNulty_> display:none is a last resort hopefully
  637. [21:26:39] <McNulty_> User stylesheets and all that
  638. [21:28:51] <DanC> hmm... tests/hcard/35-include-pattern.html (a) referenced element and children... I don't see any relevant fixes to x2v yet...
  639. [21:29:21] <DanC> FAIL hcard/35-include-pattern
  640. [21:29:30] <briansuda> DanC, there hasn't been much discussion, so i haven't worked on that aspect yet
  641. [21:29:38] <tantek> complexity wasn't the problem
  642. [21:29:42] <DanC> so 35 fails for you too so far?
  643. [21:29:44] <tantek> stupid browsers are the problem
  644. [21:30:27] * DanC thinks parser complexit is pretty relevant to the include-pattern issue I raised
  645. [21:30:37] <tantek> does anyone know if any screen readers actually focus on empty a elements?
  646. [21:30:50] <tantek> e.g. <a href="http://w3.org/"></a>
  647. [21:31:28] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
  648. [21:31:29] <drewinthehead> let me ask derek featherstone .. i have him here
  649. [21:32:15] <DanC> briansuda, does tests/hcard/35-include-pattern FAIL for you too?
  650. [21:32:25] <McNulty_> Are a.includes recommended to be empty then?
  651. [21:32:34] <briansuda> yes, 35 fails for me
  652. [21:32:42] <DanC> ok, so in some sense we're not resolved yet
  653. [21:32:53] <tantek> I believe we know what is best for the author
  654. [21:32:58] <briansuda> there is still debate about if the tests themselves are faulty
  655. [21:33:30] <DanC> tools that work are part of what's best for the author
  656. [21:33:31] <briansuda> I fail on 2 tests, 35 and one other one that has no contect (24, or 26 maybe?)
  657. [21:33:49] * markp__ (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.1/2006012608]")
  658. [21:34:30] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  659. [21:35:04] * DanC pops back, trying to remember how I came across the include-pattern issue... oh yeah... my resume...
  660. [21:36:08] <DanC> uh-oh... looks like I didn't check in that work I did on my resume... I wonder which machine I did it on...
  661. [21:39:04] * DanC found it on laptop... whew...
  662. [21:39:21] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  663. [21:41:42] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489F720.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  664. [21:42:11] * drewinthehead has feedback from derek featherstone
  665. [21:42:31] <drewinthehead> derek says: with the href="#foo" it is likely to be read out as "this page link" and then nothing
  666. [21:42:46] <drewinthehead> derek says: it would also likely show up in the links list, and be included in the link count when first announced when the page loads "this page has 3 headings and XX links"
  667. [21:43:18] <briansuda> would the addition of a title attribute over-ride the default "this page link" ...
  668. [21:43:28] <drewinthehead> if we can provide him with a test case, he'll happily run it through some screen readers for us
  669. [21:43:41] <briansuda> tantek.com has an a.include example
  670. [21:44:24] <tantek> yes, but not an empty one
  671. [21:44:31] <tantek> I was starting to experiment even further
  672. [21:44:39] <tantek> (and I think I confused Chris Messina in the process)
  673. [21:44:43] <briansuda> i'll add an empty one to the HG tests now and check it in
  674. [21:45:17] * DanC happened across http://clark.dallas.tx.us/kendall/CV/ the other day... likes the style... might crib some...
  675. [21:45:20] <drewinthehead> i think we'd need a fairly basic page so that test results are simple to follow
  676. [21:45:33] * minimalist (n=ppopov@media.rc.edu) Quit ()
  677. [21:48:11] <McNulty_> as a brit, can we rename the microformat hCV? ;-)
  678. [21:48:20] * briansuda has updated tests in HG, be sure to pull/update
  679. [21:48:27] <briansuda> ok drewinthehead, try this link http://hg.microformats.org/tests?f=053c1075f8be;file=hcard/31-include.html;style=raw
  680. [21:49:07] <tantek> McNulty, just as soon as you convince Håkon and Bert to change the "color" property to "colour"
  681. [21:49:16] <tantek> :)
  682. [21:49:18] <briansuda> wait, you needed an empty A element... do you want me to change it?
  683. [21:49:24] <DanC> hCV? I hadn't realized the brit/frog aspect of resume vs cv
  684. [21:49:55] <briansuda> There are subtle differences
  685. [21:49:56] <drewinthehead> if you could, briansuda
  686. [21:50:15] <briansuda> empty as <a href></a> or <a href />
  687. [21:50:19] <DanC> indeed. en.us is the official language of W3C, for pretty much arbitrary reasons.
  688. [21:51:41] <drewinthehead> hRésumé ?
  689. [21:53:37] <drewinthehead> let's make the official language of microformats Welsh. that'd be great. would help with adoption ... in the valleys.
  690. [21:54:39] <briansuda> ok, drewinthehead, same link now there are two "empty" 'a' elements to test
  691. [21:55:08] <briansuda> actually, different link http://hg.microformats.org/tests?f=a4b5e5b4c4c5;file=hcard/31-include.html;style=raw
  692. [21:55:24] <drewinthehead> ah, i thought that was me being an idiot ;)
  693. [21:55:48] <drewinthehead> excellent, i'll get this over to derek
  694. [21:55:56] <briansuda> that's the wonderful world of versioning! you have a URI for every instance
  695. [21:56:47] <briansuda> if you can, have him play abit, maybe add an @title and see if that makes a difference, or maybe already knows it won't
  696. [22:01:46] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
  697. [22:05:19] * McNulty_ always reads resumé as 'resume'
  698. [22:06:18] <drewinthehead> briansuda: sent to mr featherstone.
  699. [22:06:27] <briansuda> excellent
  700. [22:07:06] <drewinthehead> McNulty: i do too, although i'm trying to retrain myself.
  701. [22:14:18] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ("quittin' time")
  702. [22:21:12] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.231-81.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
  703. [22:21:12] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  704. [22:24:25] <AdamCraven> *sigh* Another day, another client wanting a huge website, with huge fangled features; news feeds, forums, download sections, 34 pages... for �2.5k... Where are all the good clients?
  705. [22:25:20] * DanC tries to figure out what's current by way of citation microformats for his resume...
  706. [22:27:28] <DanC> doesn't seem to be much convergence.
  707. [22:36:38] * McNulty_ (n=ciaranmc@i-83-67-5-75.freedom2surf.net) Quit ()
  708. [22:43:12] * ajturner (n=irc@s233-64-126-217.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit ()
  709. [22:53:50] * tantek (n=tantek@dhcpvisitor21797.slac.stanford.edu) Quit ()
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  711. [23:07:20] * McNulty_ (n=ciaranmc@i-83-67-5-75.freedom2surf.net) Quit ()
  712. [23:15:11] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) Quit ()
  713. [23:18:49] * tantek (n=tantek@dhcpvisitor21797.slac.stanford.edu) has joined #microformats
  714. [23:18:49] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  715. [23:19:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  716. [23:28:49] * vant (n=vant@c-24-18-237-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit ("Leaving...")
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