IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-19
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:00:13] <tantek>
though I suppose bewest, you might be able to use some online book seller to figure that out ;)
- [00:00:44] <tantek>
KevinMarks, I'm working with Ryan King to dogfood the hReview creator as it is
- [00:00:58] <tantek>
as recent blog posts show
- [00:01:11] <tantek>
perhaps consider pounding on it a bit as well
- [00:01:31] <tantek>
this is a good IA website: http://www.boxesandarrows.com/
- [00:01:38] <tantek>
as in website about IA
- [00:01:58] <KevinMarks>
will do - I have a pile of books to review
- [00:02:06] <bewest>
tantek: no, online book sellers are interested in selling books. I'm interested in finding seminal works/thinkers. the two intersect narrowly
- [00:02:33] <tantek>
I was referencing the authors -> set of titles query
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- [00:03:37] <bewest>
ah thanks :-) somehow missed the name drop
- [00:06:55] <bewest>
the titles seem a bit light weight
- [00:07:05] <bewest>
hopefully that belies the substance they contain
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- [01:40:58] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-ja&diff=0&oldid=7518 * IwaiMasaharu * (+80) sync: english: 12:20, 18 Jul 2006
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- [02:19:32] <Atamido>
Where is my greeting?
- [02:19:51] <briansuda>
it doesn't look like jibot is in the room
- [02:19:59] <briansuda>
he needs to be reinvited
- [02:23:33] <evanpro>
Heeeeeellllllooooooo, Atamido!
- [02:23:38] <evanpro>
How's it going!?!?!!!!!
- [02:23:45] <evanpro>
GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN
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- [02:29:16] <pnhChris>
.
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- [04:19:56] <csarven>
?def csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [06:09:06] <mfbot>
[[comment-problem-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=comment-problem-ja&diff=0&oldid=7519 * IwaiMasaharu * (+3)
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- [07:12:09] <mfbot>
[[hcard-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=7520 * ChristopheDucamp * (+175) Exemples "dans la jungle" - Ajout Besançon
- [07:13:55] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-fr&diff=0&oldid=7521 * ChristopheDucamp * (+89) Exemples dans la jungle - add Besançon
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- [08:00:44] <McNulty>
morning
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- [09:49:16] <mfbot>
[[currency-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/currency-examples * Steve Ganz * (+5111) Added examples in the wild and brainstorming that took place on uf-discuss
- [09:53:52] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=7522 * Steve Ganz * (+60) Exploratory discussions - Added currency
- [10:01:23] <mfbot>
[[currency-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples&diff=0&oldid=7523 * CiaranMc * (+10) Ciaran McNulty -
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- [10:33:19] <bunnywabbit_>
hello!
- [10:35:52] <Ciaran>
that's lucky
- [10:35:57] <Ciaran>
I'm hunting bunny wabbits
- [10:37:23] <bunnywabbit_>
lucky you :-)
- [10:37:29] <bunnywabbit_>
I'm hunting comment microformats :-)
- [10:37:33] <bunnywabbit_>
not much luck ;-)
- [10:37:40] <trovster>
hatom ;)
- [10:40:44] <bunnywabbit_>
yep
- [10:40:45] <bunnywabbit_>
noted
- [10:40:53] <bunnywabbit_>
on the "to investigate" list
- [10:41:15] <bunnywabbit_>
and we should probably use hcard for user info too
- [10:41:31] <trovster>
Yes, I do ;)
- [10:44:31] <bunnywabbit_>
you do what? use it?
- [10:44:32] <bunnywabbit_>
:-)
- [10:44:51] <trovster>
Use hatom and hcard for comments
- [10:45:28] <trovster>
But is getting annoyed because this XHR isn't being returned as XML :@
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- [10:49:04] <bunnywabbit_>
what's xhr?
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- [11:17:25] <drewinthehead>
did we lose jibot?
- [11:18:22] <bunnywabbit_>
seems like it
- [11:18:45] <drewinthehead>
shucks, i sure miss that little fella
- [11:23:56] * trovster slaps drewinthehead around a bit with a large trout
- [11:24:10] <drewinthehead>
harsh, i feel.
- [11:24:39] <drewinthehead>
as long as mfbot is still here, we're cool.
- [11:25:08] <trovster>
<trovster> But is getting annoyed because this XHR isn't being returned as XML -- was coz of your best guess script sending text/html :)
- [11:25:54] <drewinthehead>
oops
- [11:26:14] <drewinthehead>
do you need a XML option?
- [11:26:50] <drewinthehead>
it's all rather experimental, so i'm open to any suggestions/feedback
- [11:26:57] <trovster>
Nah, it's fine.
- [11:32:04] <drewinthehead>
even though the content-type is text/html, it should still be well formed xml
- [11:32:49] <trovster>
It was well formed, but my script was looking for XML.
- [11:33:04] <bunnywabbit_>
rss should be typed as xml+rss, right?
- [11:35:16] <trovster>
Dunnope.
- [11:35:32] <trovster>
I don't like sites which send it as a format which requires to be downloaded.
- [11:38:57] <drewinthehead>
me neither .. but it's all a bit of a mess at the moment
- [11:40:20] <drewinthehead>
the issue i have (and why i serve JSON as application/json) is that even if you serve it as text/plain you're not entirely safe from XSS
- [11:41:45] <drewinthehead>
if you html-encode the output, that'll screw things up for applications that don't care about that (makes no sense for JSON) and if you don't and you're displaying the output in a browser, you're open to XSS attack
- [11:47:32] <drewinthehead>
trovster: if you have any other ideas for useful services to whack onto tools.microformatic.com, let me know
- [11:48:10] <trovster>
Cool. I'm running your script through my comment preview JS stuff. works quite well.
- [11:49:50] <drewinthehead>
superb
- [11:52:19] <McNulty>
Anyone ace with JS and regexes?
- [11:52:34] <McNulty>
I'm trying to work out how this currency convertor Firefox extension works
- [11:52:56] <McNulty>
But the object literal notation is breaking my brain
- [11:52:59] * trovster is guessing it work swith JS and regexes ;)
- [11:53:14] <McNulty>
trovster - yeah was trying to see if I could document the rules it uses
- [11:53:28] <drewinthehead>
got an example McNulty?
- [11:53:46] <McNulty>
looks like it's matching (currency symbol)[\d.,]+
- [11:54:04] <McNulty>
drewinthehead - well I'm poking around the XPI and have found the function that I think does it
- [11:54:16] <mn_francis>
that means any decimal number or a . or a comma at least once
- [11:54:22] <McNulty>
mn_francis - yeah
- [11:54:41] <McNulty>
I'd paste the stuff somewhere but I haven't checked what licence it's under yet
- [11:55:36] <McNulty>
brb
- [11:55:56] <drewinthehead>
'lo norm
- [11:56:04] <mn_francis>
'lo
- [11:56:32] <mn_francis>
Drew, d'you follow the uf lists closely at all? I'm about 3 months behind on my archives
- [11:56:54] <drewinthehead>
fairly closely ... i'm up-to-date
- [11:57:06] <mn_francis>
is anyone doing any uf stuff in perl?
- [11:57:44] <drewinthehead>
i've not seen anything mentioned, but if there's stuff out there it should be on the wiki
- [11:58:03] <mn_francis>
my favourite search engine didn't find anything useful there
- [11:59:27] <drewinthehead>
you may be out of luck then ... looking for parsers?
- [11:59:58] <mn_francis>
parsers, creators, anything really :)
- [12:00:07] <mn_francis>
(I'm a perl nut, for my sins)
- [12:01:41] <drewinthehead>
looks like you may have the blaze the trail on that one
- [12:01:50] <mn_francis>
whoo hoo!
- [12:02:55] <drewinthehead>
perl and microformats ... it's like michael douglass and catherine zeta-jones
- [12:03:03] <trovster>
haha
- [12:04:09] <mn_francis>
it's not nice to insult microformats like that
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- [12:05:09] <trovster>
mn_francis: tooshay
- [12:05:51] <trovster>
touche, even!
- [12:06:04] <drewinthehead>
touché!
- [12:06:18] <mn_francis>
touché away!
- [12:10:50] <drewinthehead>
the nice thing about a perl µF parser is that it could potentially be very fast
- [12:11:24] <McNulty>
let's write one in C++ then
- [12:11:27] <McNulty>
or assembler
- [12:11:34] <trovster>
Damn mIRC and it's lack of UTF8 support :(
- [12:11:44] <drewinthehead>
McNulty, feel free ... ;)
- [12:13:40] <drewinthehead>
the real bottleneck is GETing the document and TIDYing it at the moment, for the stuff i'm doing ... parsing it lightning quick compared to those steps
- [12:14:08] <plaes>
trovster: mirc 6.17 has utf8 support...
- [12:14:44] * trovster is running 6.16
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- [12:19:26] * drewinthehead fondly remembers mIRC
- [12:19:36] * McNulty is using a command-line client
- [12:20:05] <trovster>
drewinthehead: What you using now?
- [12:20:20] <drewinthehead>
Colloquy on the mac
- [12:20:30] <McNulty>
I quite like Colloquy
- [12:20:42] <trovster>
See, on the Mac I use that, and it really doesn't compare.
- [12:20:52] <trovster>
I'm not comfortable with it et.
- [12:21:07] <drewinthehead>
i was lukewarm on Colloquy until the new betas ... and not it's great
- [12:21:12] <drewinthehead>
now it's ..
- [12:21:21] <trovster>
I think I need to get them, then.
- [12:22:14] <trovster>
But I like the small-space for the users in a channel, and the tab-across-the-top in mIRC
- [12:22:38] <trovster>
Maybe 'coz I'm used to full screen apps
- [12:23:27] <drewinthehead>
switching to the mac took me a while to train myself out of thinking everything had to be maximised to be 'tidy'
- [12:23:50] <McNulty>
I find myself using Expose a lot lately
- [12:24:08] <McNulty>
because I'm on an iBook with a pretty cramped screen it's hard to have lots of stuff open and keep track
- [12:24:56] <drewinthehead>
virtual desktops help with that too
- [12:25:13] <trovster>
Installed one of them, not quite got into it.
- [12:25:33] <McNulty>
I use virtual desktops at work but haven't tried it on OSX
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- [12:41:10] <drewinthehead>
anyone know of an hCalendar implementation that puts events on a timeline?
- [12:42:05] <McNulty>
You might be able to subscribe to an iCalendar from inside Google Calendar, where the iCalendar is a convertor pointing at an hCalendar?
- [12:43:33] <drewinthehead>
does Google Calendar have a timeline?
- [12:43:45] <McNulty>
Oh, er... dunno
- [12:44:28] <McNulty>
Possibly Outlook does, but it's been a while since I used it
- [12:45:08] <McNulty>
actually google calendar doesn't seem to like the output from the technocrati feed
- [12:45:31] <McNulty>
aah need to tell it to subscribe
- [12:45:58] <drewinthehead>
i'm thinking it'd be awesome to have a Flash movie or something that you could dump on a page and have it present a timeline of all the hCalendar events on the page
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- [12:48:27] <McNulty>
yeah that'd be quite neat
- [12:48:52] * McNulty wonders if he can sync Google Calendar with iSync
- [12:49:06] <trovster>
Oh, that'd be good, then I'd have a use for my phone...
- [12:49:16] <McNulty>
Currently I sync my phone + iCal
- [12:49:37] <McNulty>
can't seem to synch the google calendar with iCal
- [12:52:29] <drewinthehead>
woah .. look at this.. http://www.drleslie.com/Timeline/Timelines.html
- [12:53:51] <drewinthehead>
not sure it's useful, but it's cool.
- [12:55:32] <McNulty>
I don't get what the columns mean
- [12:55:52] <drewinthehead>
no, me neither
- [12:56:04] <drewinthehead>
i just like the scrolling effect
- [12:56:25] <bunnywabbit_>
trovster: when you use hatom to mark up your comments, what do you put in hentry?
- [12:56:37] <trovster>
Put in?
- [12:56:42] <bunnywabbit_>
and could you give me that demo url you showed me yesterday?
- [12:56:51] <bunnywabbit_>
not at home so don't have access to history
- [12:56:53] <bunnywabbit_>
er
- [12:56:57] <bunnywabbit_>
what data do you put in it
- [12:57:03] <bunnywabbit_>
you said you put comments in hfeed, right?
- [12:57:13] * bunnywabbit_ has decided to figure out how this works
- [12:57:16] <trovster>
Yes... wait... I'm going to paste it...
- [12:57:20] <McNulty>
bunnywabbit_ - http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/
- [12:58:05] <bunnywabbit_>
heh, right, mcnulty
- [12:58:16] <bunnywabbit_>
bother, why doesnt cgi::irc have tab-completion?
- [12:58:19] <bunnywabbit_>
or highlighting?
- [12:58:26] <trovster>
http://paste.css-standards.org/1543/view
- [12:58:32] <bunnywabbit_>
thanks
- [13:02:18] * vant_ (n=vant@c-24-18-237-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
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- [13:04:42] <bunnywabbit_>
oh, it does have highlighting
- [13:05:47] <bunnywabbit_>
I think I'm starting to get it, trovster
- [13:06:10] <bunnywabbit_>
so you mark up your html like that, and then a parser can come and transform that into an atom feed? is that the idea? or am I still missing the point?
- [13:06:22] <McNulty>
that's exactly it
- [13:06:23] <trovster>
No, that's the point exactly.
- [13:06:31] <trovster>
I explained that yesterday, didn't I?
- [13:06:48] <McNulty>
there are a few services around that will take a URL and spit out an Atom feed for it
- [13:07:10] <trovster>
What about three hfeeds on a page ;)
- [13:07:22] <McNulty>
pass
- [13:08:10] <bunnywabbit_>
trovster: I'm a bit slow, excuse me
- [13:08:13] * stuup (n=stu@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) has joined #microformats
- [13:08:27] <bunnywabbit_>
mcnulty: url for such a service?
- [13:08:36] <bunnywabbit_>
tantek: ping?
- [13:09:29] <McNulty>
bunnywabbit_ - http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/
- [13:09:47] * trovster wonders if that's been fixed to hand XHTML as application/xhtml+xml...
- [13:10:09] <McNulty>
trovster - doesn't work on your paste
- [13:10:21] <trovster>
Coz it's HTML?
- [13:10:32] <McNulty>
mmmmaybe
- [13:10:39] <McNulty>
does it only take XHTML mime types then
- [13:10:48] <McNulty>
I've not used the service before
- [13:11:15] <trovster>
No, doesn't work with HTML. Only works with XHTML sent as text/html.. go figure!
- [13:11:27] <McNulty>
ah because it's doing an XSL transform I guess
- [13:11:39] <trovster>
Should Tidy it first.
- [13:11:43] <McNulty>
You'd think it'd be possible to convert, yeah
- [13:12:39] <McNulty>
In PHP at least you can open up some HTML as a DOMDocument and spit it out as XML fairly simply I think
- [13:12:57] <McNulty>
looks like they're using Python, but I'd expect it has similar capabilities
- [13:18:15] <McNulty>
If it's just an XSL maybe I'll set up a service myself
- [13:19:37] * vant (n=vant@c-24-18-237-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [13:21:27] <bunnywabbit_>
trovster: do you have an hfeed in an hfeed on your page? did I see correctly?
- [13:21:42] <trovster>
Don't think so, shouldn't do.
- [13:22:01] <trovster>
I have three hfeeds under the one hatom, and hentrys under each hfeed
- [13:22:03] <drewinthehead>
does mine work, trovster?
- [13:22:05] <drewinthehead>
http://tools.microformatic.dev/help/xhtml/hatom/
- [13:22:23] <drewinthehead>
with html
- [13:22:23] * trovster slaps drewinthehead around a bit with a large trout
- [13:22:49] <McNulty>
.dev?
- [13:22:52] * bunnywabbit_ must have counted wrong, then
- [13:22:53] <drewinthehead>
doh
- [13:22:58] <trovster>
grrr, asks me to download atom+xml
- [13:23:08] <drewinthehead>
http://tools.microformatic.com/help/xhtml/hatom/
- [13:23:16] <McNulty>
trovster - that's up to the browser...
- [13:23:34] * trovster wants FF to show the XML parse string
- [13:25:30] <bunnywabbit_>
trovster...
- [13:25:42] <McNulty>
looks like it takes the first feed?
- [13:25:55] <bunnywabbit_>
when I reach <div id="comments" class="hfeed"> I can count two unclosed divs starting from <div id="content-main" class="hfeed">
- [13:26:01] <bunnywabbit_>
I counted all the open ones
- [13:26:04] <bunnywabbit_>
and all the close ones
- [13:26:13] <bunnywabbit_>
and there are two more open ones than close ones
- [13:26:27] <bunnywabbit_>
so comments seems to be in content-main
- [13:29:58] * stuup (n=stu@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) Quit ()
- [13:30:26] <trovster>
bunnywabbit_: Dunno what you're seeing dude, but 'This Page Is Valid HTML 4.01 Strict!'
- [13:31:48] <trovster>
How can I get FF to show application/atom+xml as XML, I'm getting plain text.
- [13:32:49] <trovster>
McNulty> looks like it takes the first feed? -- yes, but it tolls up the authors :S
- [13:33:28] <McNulty>
interesting
- [13:33:40] * Charl (n=charlvn@net-153-111.mweb.co.za) Quit ()
- [13:34:09] <drewinthehead>
it's correct that it only takes the first feed when transcoding to atom
- [13:34:22] <drewinthehead>
with atom 1 url = 1 feed
- [13:35:07] <drewinthehead>
you should be able to use a fragment identifier to get the other feeds
- [13:35:09] <trovster>
http://tools.microformatic.com/transcode/atom/hatom/http://paste.css-standards.org/1543/view#comments
- [13:35:16] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [13:35:27] <drewinthehead>
(ssh! here he is now!)
- [13:35:36] <drewinthehead>
;)
- [13:35:37] <McNulty>
everyone act natural
- [13:35:49] <trovster>
http://tools.microformatic.com/transcode/atom/hatom/http://paste.css-standards.org/1543/view#content-supplementary don't see to work...
- [13:36:03] <pnhChris>
drew taking over for jibot?
- [13:36:19] <drewinthehead>
i'd be a poor replacement :)
- [13:38:13] * pnhChris reads the logs to make sure you all weren't being naughty
- [13:38:46] <pnhChris>
btw.. a 20" LCD is a good remedy for a "cramped" ibook/macbook screen :P
- [13:38:52] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
- [13:39:14] <McNulty>
defeats the point a bit!
- [13:39:32] <drewinthehead>
trovster: if the fragment thing isn't working, could be a bug in hAtom2Atom.xsl
- [13:39:38] <pnhChris>
depends
- [13:39:45] <trovster>
Could well be.
- [13:39:51] <trovster>
What about the multiple author thing :S
- [13:39:54] <pnhChris>
but seems to work for me :)
- [13:50:57] <McNulty>
does anyone have a public hCard -> vCard XSL?
- [13:51:33] <drewinthehead>
http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/
- [13:52:00] <McNulty>
I mean an actual .XSL
- [13:52:07] <McNulty>
rather than a service.
- [13:52:53] <drewinthehead>
http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/xhtml2vcal.xsl
- [13:53:20] <McNulty>
awe. some.
- [13:53:30] <drewinthehead>
ah, that's hCalendar
- [13:53:31] <trovster>
Behaviour question here... I have non-required form inputs, but one is a website URL, should I fail the submition of the form is this contains data, and it's invalid?
- [13:53:33] <drewinthehead>
hCard: http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/xhtml2vcard.xsl
- [13:53:42] <McNulty>
drewinthehead :-)
- [13:54:06] <McNulty>
trovster - depends what the form is
- [13:54:13] <McNulty>
we had a site that pinged URLs to check they were valid
- [13:54:34] <drewinthehead>
in most cases, even if something isn't required, if they offer the data it should be in an acceptable format
- [13:54:36] <trovster>
It's not that suffisticated.
- [13:54:52] <McNulty>
some guy's wanted to add his site, and the DNS hadn't transferred over yet...
- [13:54:58] <trovster>
drewinthehead: Perfect, consense of a few people there, and it was what I was already doing :D
- [13:55:28] <McNulty>
oh, it's the same question really as whether you'd let them put in an invalid date
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- [14:00:41] <bunnywabbit_>
trovster: your page can be valid but have weird nesting
- [14:01:00] <bunnywabbit_>
I asked you before if hfeed could be an element of hfeed, and you said no
- [14:01:12] <bunnywabbit_>
the way your markup is done, you seem to have an hfeed nested in an hfeed
- [14:01:19] <bunnywabbit_>
that won't make the html invalid
- [14:01:40] <trovster>
Dude.
- [14:01:47] <trovster>
Give me time to look at it
- [14:01:48] <trovster>
Please?
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- [14:06:20] <McNulty>
trovster - yeah looks like your comments feed is inside the main post's hFeed
- [14:06:27] <McNulty>
explains the multiple authors
- [14:12:21] <bunnywabbit_>
sure, I'll give you time, no problem, just wanted to let you know -- and would you please stop calling me Dude? I'm not a dude.
- [14:12:28] <trovster>
Ace, fixed it
- [14:12:39] * bunnywabbit_ is a girl, thankyouverymuch
- [14:12:51] <trovster>
Dude, stop complaining.
- [14:14:23] <bunnywabbit_>
hey. I point out an error in your page, and all I get is "stop complaining, dude"?
- [14:14:24] <trovster>
;)
- [14:14:26] <bunnywabbit_>
not very nice.
- [14:14:45] <bunnywabbit_>
I'd prefer something like
- [14:14:47] <trovster>
No, the 'Dude, stop complaining.' was about complaining about the dude bit.
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- [14:14:53] <bunnywabbit_>
"thank you, bunnydarling"
- [14:15:03] <bunnywabbit_>
ah.
- [14:15:06] <bunnywabbit_>
well.
- [14:15:16] <bunnywabbit_>
I'd still rather not be referred to as a dude.
- [14:15:25] <bunnywabbit_>
life is tough enough being a geeky girl, you know.
- [14:15:50] <trovster>
And it's more of a 'duuuuuuueeewwwde' sound, which I think is informal enough to be applied to any one
- [14:16:39] <McNulty>
On the interweb, everyone's a dude
- [14:16:42] <bunnywabbit_>
well, i don't like it, sorry.
- [14:16:51] <bunnywabbit_>
I'm not a dude, I'm a bunny.
- [14:16:56] <bunnywabbit_>
ask KevinMarks
- [14:17:02] <McNulty>
you're as much of a dude as you are a bunny
- [14:17:09] <bunnywabbit_>
no way.
- [14:17:11] * bunnywabbit_ checks
- [14:17:16] * bunnywabbit_ is a gal, alright
- [14:17:19] <McNulty>
trovster - does that service get your authors right now?
- [14:17:23] <McNulty>
are you also a rabbit?
- [14:17:29] <bunnywabbit_>
a wabbit :-)
- [14:17:34] <McNulty>
check that while you're at it
- [14:17:39] <trovster>
mcknut: For the first hfeed, yes.
- [14:18:12] <McNulty>
cool-o
- [14:18:40] <trovster>
But #content-supplementary gets the main article :s
- [14:23:51] <McNulty>
right
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- [14:30:31] <bunnywabbit_>
is microformats.org down?
- [14:32:10] <McNulty>
I can't connect
- [14:34:17] <mn_francis>
same here, nada
- [14:34:33] * briansuda looks to the direction on tantek to see what he can do
- [14:36:15] <briansuda>
just an FYI, sometime it is helpful if you spot SPAM on the wiki, or are having problems with the Mailing list, or you think there is some other problems, contact one of the Admins/operators to alert them to the issue
- [14:37:55] <briansuda>
for those not as familiar with IRC, if you enter a user nickname "briansuda" their app usually alerts them in someway, this is a good way to get the attention of those who sit in the room but are not always looking in.
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- [14:39:36] <bunnywabbit_>
I think tantek is still asleep ;-)
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- [14:39:49] <bunnywabbit_>
I pinged him a couple of times already and didn't get much reaction out of him
- [14:44:01] <bunnywabbit_>
briansuda: do you work at technorati?
- [14:44:32] <briansuda>
nope, maybe that's why i'm awake? i'm also two hours ahead of them
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- [14:45:51] <bunnywabbit_>
back
- [14:45:59] * cgriego (n=cgriego@c-67-166-246-44.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has left #Microformats
- [14:46:19] <bunnywabbit_>
briansuda: do you work for technorati, by any chance?
- [14:46:28] * bunnywabbit_ pokes KevinMarks while she's at it
- [14:46:39] <briansuda>
nope, maybe that's why i'm awake? i'm also two hours ahead of them
- [14:46:56] <bunnywabbit_>
hehe
- [14:46:57] <bunnywabbit_>
ok :-)
- [14:51:13] <drewinthehead>
mailing list is still working
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- [14:53:01] * bunnywabbit_ (n=d5277b02@213.131.245.124) Quit ("http://cocomment.com (EOF)")
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- [14:53:56] <bunnywabbit_>
gah.
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- [15:13:36] <McNulty>
microformats.org is pingable and is accepting connections on port 80, it's just not responding to GETs from what I can see
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- [15:56:37] <drewinthehead>
nearly 9am in SF, so hopefully someone will be around to kick microformats.org
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- [16:13:10] <dglazkov>
should be back now
- [16:18:03] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
- [16:18:34] * boneill (n=boneill@i-83-67-41-33.freedom2surf.net) Quit ("blah.")
- [16:18:55] <drewinthehead>
yup, it's back ... thanks dglazkov
- [16:26:33] <amanuelPB>
amette_: are you on Otavo?
- [16:26:47] <amette_>
yup
- [16:26:56] <amanuelPB>
lol hi.
- [16:27:01] <amette_>
hi :)
- [16:27:14] <amanuelPB>
so what do you think of the changes this week?
- [16:27:25] * chucker_ (n=chucker@p5489F2C3.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
- [16:27:42] <amette_>
I'm not very acrive on otavo, I have to admit... :-/
- [16:28:04] <amette_>
.. didn't check changes yet - I was whole week on the road - so you're really lucky to have gotten me right on time, when I came back :)
- [16:28:19] <amanuelPB>
that's ok.
- [16:28:32] <amette_>
:)
- [16:28:38] * amette_ loves the floatlet though :D
- [16:29:28] <amanuelPB>
it is neat. those that know how to put favelets enjoy it.
- [16:30:52] <amanuelPB>
just inviting everyone in now as we are about to enter public beta
- [16:31:48] <amette_>
it's not only very beautiful, but very handy - it minimizes redirections and reloads, very good!
- [16:32:18] <amette_>
ok, I'll spread the word and will check it out again - thanks for reminding me :)
- [16:33:05] <amanuelPB>
great :)
- [16:33:41] <amanuelPB>
amette_: let me know if you need anything.
- [16:34:01] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=7524 * Steve Ganz * (+14) Exploratory discussions - Added new marker for currency
- [16:34:33] <amette_>
amanuelPB : sure, thanks
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- [18:03:04] <c>
;[
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- [18:48:57] <mfbot>
[[citation-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-formats&diff=0&oldid=7525 * JakobVoss * (+441) You should know - nice to meet you :-)
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[[citation-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-formats&diff=0&oldid=7526 * JakobVoss * (+238) +OpenDocument
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[[comments-formats-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/comments-formats-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+3146) [fr:comments-formats translation - to be checked by "bunny" ? ;)]
- [19:09:11] <mfbot>
[[comment-problem-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-problem-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1988) [fr:comment-problem translation to be reviewed]
- [19:12:47] <mfbot>
[[comment-examples-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1260) [fr:comment-examples to be reviewed]
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[[currency-examples-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/currency-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+5825) [fr:currency-examples localization]
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[[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7527 * ChristopheDucamp * (+18) Participants -
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[[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7528 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) typo
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[[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7529 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) Ciaran McNulty -
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[[hlisting-proposal-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-proposal-fr&diff=0&oldid=7530 * ChristopheDucamp * (+90) Détails des Champs - translation in progress
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[[hlisting-proposal-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-proposal-fr&diff=0&oldid=7531 * ChristopheDucamp * (+276) Résumé des Modifications - translation in progress
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[[to-do-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do-fr&diff=0&oldid=7532 * ChristopheDucamp * (+9)
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- [20:09:07] <DanC_lap>
hmm... my PDA says it's mf-office-hours time... but I think it's off by an hour. anyway... I'm not sure I have any spare bandwidth this week.
- [20:21:22] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=7533 * ChristopheDucamp * (+363) Discussions Exploratoires - ajout suffix "fr" sur discussions exploratoires
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[[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=7534 * ChristopheDucamp * (+110) Discussions Exploratoires -
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[[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7535 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2) Ben Ward -
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- [20:29:36] <briansuda>
not sure if anyone has seen or knows about this, but http://www.hubmed.org/ is publishing vCards for alot of authors, they have also started in on their own citation style, so this might be another good use-case example in the wild.
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- [21:01:48] <drewinthehead>
so, is now the anointed hour?
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- [21:29:06] <tantek>
greetings
- [21:30:52] <drewinthehead>
hi tantek
- [21:31:09] <tantek>
hi drew
- [21:32:39] <imajes>
hey tantek, how are you?
- [21:33:07] <tantek>
hey imajes, it's been busy as usual
- [21:33:15] <imajes>
of course
- [21:33:26] <tantek>
how about you? any microformats projects come your way?
- [21:33:44] <imajes>
i just formally setup my own mini agency over here
- [21:33:50] <imajes>
so we're doing lots of fun stuff
- [21:34:04] <imajes>
most of my time is still teaching people the concept of working in the semantic webosphere
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- [21:34:16] <Phae>
That can be fun though, to a degree, don't you think?
- [21:34:55] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:34:56] <imajes>
after a while it gets boring to explain why <p class="big-header"> or <font size="24"> are not really useful compared to, oh, <h2>
- [21:35:13] <Phae>
I suppose, if there's not really any progression after a while.
- [21:35:22] <Phae>
But still, helping someone and seeing them "get it" is cool.
- [21:35:32] <imajes>
i've taught about 4 teams this in the last two years
- [21:35:42] <imajes>
progression typically takes months for it to sink in
- [21:35:59] * Phae nods.
- [21:36:13] <imajes>
especially when you get stuff like, 'but i want the font size to be 24, how will h2 help??'
- [21:36:26] <Phae>
heh
- [21:36:34] <imajes>
or,
- [21:36:48] <imajes>
"you can't use css on a h2, what are you talking about?"
- [21:36:51] <imajes>
or,
- [21:37:09] <imajes>
"google doesn't understand <h?> tags... you are only allowed to put text in a <p> tag"
- [21:37:16] <imajes>
or,
- [21:37:25] <imajes>
"aren't h tags supposed to be in the <head> tag? duh?"
- [21:37:44] <Phae>
I think I get the idea :) That just seems like someone poorly educated in basic mark-up though, let alone anything more complex.
- [21:37:50] <imajes>
in my head i'm thinking, 'and you're being paid £20,000 a year for this?'
- [21:37:51] <Phae>
I guess I was assuming you were teaching people with *some* clue.
- [21:37:51] <Phae>
heh
- [21:38:00] <imajes>
clue has varying degrees
- [21:38:31] <Phae>
mmhmm
- [21:38:35] <drewinthehead>
i've found the step to understanding why microformats are useful is then another big leap
- [21:38:44] <imajes>
indeed
- [21:38:59] <imajes>
usually i've given up by then and am in the pub
- [21:39:02] <Phae>
Yeah, it is. I looked at MF's a while back and didn't really click with it at first. It wasn't until my 3rd revision of the idea in my head that it sunk in.
- [21:39:25] <imajes>
tantek: regarding the microformats..... i'm thinking of coming up with a virtual online exchange rate market for converting your lindens to your other-online-virtual-currency....
- [21:39:37] <imajes>
so you can move money from one online community to another
- [21:39:48] <pnhChris>
its a big jump.. but it seems to get easier to explain with more things to demo
- [21:40:10] <Phae>
Yeah, it's true. When I did "get it", it was after seeing wild examples.
- [21:40:24] <imajes>
biggest jump for me is to convince clients that it was worth them spending the money
- [21:40:31] <imajes>
to do it properly
- [21:40:43] <imajes>
rather than dicking around on a client because they paid not enough
- [21:41:04] <imajes>
and also listening to all the seo experts go on about how it will break google rankings
- [21:41:10] <imajes>
that's quite annoying ;)
- [21:41:19] <Phae>
heh
- [21:41:29] <pnhChris>
i shoot seo "experts" on sight
- [21:41:35] <imajes>
indeed
- [21:41:39] <imajes>
i remember one guy
- [21:41:43] <imajes>
who was such an 'expert'
- [21:41:51] <imajes>
we had to be interviewed to see if his company would give us a quote
- [21:42:01] <imajes>
i was asked to listen in on the meeting
- [21:42:08] <imajes>
he was making up half of what he said
- [21:42:18] <imajes>
(apparently he turns a six figure salary .... )
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- [21:42:44] <drewinthehead>
and the other half he was repeating from someone else who'd made it up
- [21:42:48] <Phae>
Yeah, there's a lot of cowboys. We had a client come by lately, and we did an accessibilty audit for them, and as part of that we checked their rankings. They'd paid some jack company to do their SEO.
- [21:42:49] <imajes>
yep
- [21:42:53] <Phae>
And yet they showed up *nowhere*
- [21:43:14] <imajes>
i have come to the realization that seo is really just like trying to pin the tail on the donkey
- [21:43:17] <imajes>
sometimes you get it right
- [21:43:19] <imajes>
sometimes you don't
- [21:43:31] <imajes>
but as long as your donkey is pinned up straight... you at least have a chance
- [21:43:32] <pnhChris>
and sometimes the donkey gets you
- [21:43:40] <Phae>
Well, maybe. But I think in this case, the company they'd paid had probably fed them a spiel, and really done nothing for them.
- [21:43:54] <imajes>
totally
- [21:45:11] <tantek>
seo = snake oil
- [21:45:31] <Phae>
mm
- [21:45:38] <tantek>
the best seo, if that's what you're trying to do is:
- [21:45:43] <tantek>
1. start a blog
- [21:45:47] <tantek>
2. write good content
- [21:45:54] <tantek>
3. link to other folks discussing the same thing
- [21:46:07] <tantek>
4. go to 2
- [21:46:23] <imajes>
tantek: i argued for a month with one of my previous employers about whether they should do a blog, and how much time their marketing guy should spend doing it
- [21:46:31] <tantek>
on top of that the following helps dramatically:
- [21:46:32] <imajes>
he told me to get stuffed etc etc
- [21:46:40] <imajes>
once it was up, sneakily
- [21:46:45] <tantek>
1. valid semantic (x)html with proper use of headings
- [21:46:54] <imajes>
we improved traffic by 20% within three weeks of posting
- [21:46:55] <imajes>
it's just sioly
- [21:46:57] <imajes>
silly
- [21:46:59] <tantek>
2. "clean" URLs that have topical relevance
- [21:47:02] <imajes>
yep
- [21:47:05] <Phae>
I think the word "blog" can be a bit of a turn-off for some people. For uninformed, it's what kids do. Sell it to them as updates and articles instead.
- [21:47:11] <tantek>
that's really all there is to it
- [21:47:12] <imajes>
3. regular posting with recent updates
- [21:47:16] <imajes>
that helps _loads_
- [21:47:23] <tantek>
yes, that's step 4 above ;)
- [21:47:23] <imajes>
freshness is good
- [21:47:26] <imajes>
:)
- [21:48:08] <imajes>
tanktek: however the microformat for doing online virtual currency exchange seems quite alluring
- [21:48:21] <imajes>
er, tantek
- [21:49:03] <drewinthehead>
how are people doing that currently, imajes?
- [21:49:25] <imajes>
i don't think they are
- [21:49:28] * imajes rubs hands in glee
- [21:49:50] <imajes>
i've been pondering the idea of making it so that, in theory, you could almost transfer your linden money to your wow gold to airmiles
- [21:49:56] <imajes>
each having an exchange rate
- [21:50:44] <imajes>
no idea how it'd work in practice, but it's quite alluring
- [21:51:38] <drewinthehead>
http://microformats.org/wiki/process#Document_Current_Behavior
- [21:51:46] <briansuda>
imajes, i think that's the danger, without real-world examples you run the risk of boiling the ocean attempting to solve all the problems, when not really exists
- [21:51:57] <briansuda>
... none really exist
- [21:52:13] <imajes>
briansuda: well, for another client, i have a definite use for being able to exchange some kind of 'credits' for real stuff
- [21:52:42] <imajes>
and we'd like to interact with other online communities
- [21:53:35] * tantek_ (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:54:18] <tantek_>
part of step 2 above is tagging your well written content as well
- [21:54:55] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ("gotta run...")
- [21:55:10] <KevinMarks>
seo by a 7-year-old
- [21:56:01] <drewinthehead>
i saw benefits from simply adding rel="bookmark" to my permalinks ... and i rank well already
- [21:56:29] <KevinMarks>
http://funnystories.blogspot.com/2002_05_01_funnystories_archive.html#85095380
- [21:57:12] <Phae>
Cute.
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- [22:02:14] <mfbot>
[[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=7536 * Kwilson * (+210) Added myself to list of hResumes in the wild
- [22:02:51] <drewinthehead>
who was running the jibot?
- [22:04:53] <KevinMarks>
termie
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- [22:06:04] <sreynen>
i'd like a pony: it would be nice if requests for microformats.org/not-there were checked for a wiki page at microformats.org/wiki/not-there before returning a 404
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- [23:05:42] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=7537 * IwaiMasaharu * (+74) sync: english: 16:33, 19 Jul 2006
- [23:14:49] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [23:29:53] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7538 * Tantek * (+225) add creator and authoring to related pages
- [23:51:15] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=7539 * Tantek * (+1333) reorganized informative references to be like hCard and added some more
- [23:56:16] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=7540 * Tantek * (-649) more references, see also, further reading clean up
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