IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:13] <tantek> though I suppose bewest, you might be able to use some online book seller to figure that out ;)
  2. [00:00:44] <tantek> KevinMarks, I'm working with Ryan King to dogfood the hReview creator as it is
  3. [00:00:58] <tantek> as recent blog posts show
  4. [00:01:11] <tantek> perhaps consider pounding on it a bit as well
  5. [00:01:31] <tantek> this is a good IA website: http://www.boxesandarrows.com/
  6. [00:01:38] <tantek> as in website about IA
  7. [00:01:58] <KevinMarks> will do - I have a pile of books to review
  8. [00:02:06] <bewest> tantek: no, online book sellers are interested in selling books. I'm interested in finding seminal works/thinkers. the two intersect narrowly
  9. [00:02:33] <tantek> I was referencing the authors -> set of titles query
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  11. [00:03:01] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  12. [00:03:37] <bewest> ah thanks :-) somehow missed the name drop
  13. [00:06:55] <bewest> the titles seem a bit light weight
  14. [00:07:05] <bewest> hopefully that belies the substance they contain
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  26. [01:40:58] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-ja&diff=0&oldid=7518 * IwaiMasaharu * (+80) sync: english: 12:20, 18 Jul 2006
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  35. [02:19:32] <Atamido> Where is my greeting?
  36. [02:19:51] <briansuda> it doesn't look like jibot is in the room
  37. [02:19:59] <briansuda> he needs to be reinvited
  38. [02:23:33] <evanpro> Heeeeeellllllooooooo, Atamido!
  39. [02:23:38] <evanpro> How's it going!?!?!!!!!
  40. [02:23:45] <evanpro> GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN
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  43. [02:29:16] <pnhChris> .
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  58. [04:10:52] * publisher is now known as tornmind
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  60. [04:19:56] <csarven> ?def csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  80. [06:09:06] <mfbot> [[comment-problem-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=comment-problem-ja&diff=0&oldid=7519 * IwaiMasaharu * (+3)
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  91. [07:12:09] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=7520 * ChristopheDucamp * (+175) Exemples "dans la jungle" - Ajout Besançon
  92. [07:13:55] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-fr&diff=0&oldid=7521 * ChristopheDucamp * (+89) Exemples dans la jungle - add Besançon
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  97. [08:00:44] <McNulty> morning
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  101. [09:15:11] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ()
  102. [09:49:16] <mfbot> [[currency-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/currency-examples * Steve Ganz * (+5111) Added examples in the wild and brainstorming that took place on uf-discuss
  103. [09:53:52] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=7522 * Steve Ganz * (+60) Exploratory discussions - Added currency
  104. [10:01:23] <mfbot> [[currency-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples&diff=0&oldid=7523 * CiaranMc * (+10) Ciaran McNulty -
  105. [10:33:15] * bunnywabbit_ (n=d5277b02@213.131.245.124) has joined #microformats
  106. [10:33:19] <bunnywabbit_> hello!
  107. [10:35:52] <Ciaran> that's lucky
  108. [10:35:57] <Ciaran> I'm hunting bunny wabbits
  109. [10:37:23] <bunnywabbit_> lucky you :-)
  110. [10:37:29] <bunnywabbit_> I'm hunting comment microformats :-)
  111. [10:37:33] <bunnywabbit_> not much luck ;-)
  112. [10:37:40] <trovster> hatom ;)
  113. [10:40:44] <bunnywabbit_> yep
  114. [10:40:45] <bunnywabbit_> noted
  115. [10:40:53] <bunnywabbit_> on the "to investigate" list
  116. [10:41:15] <bunnywabbit_> and we should probably use hcard for user info too
  117. [10:41:31] <trovster> Yes, I do ;)
  118. [10:44:31] <bunnywabbit_> you do what? use it?
  119. [10:44:32] <bunnywabbit_> :-)
  120. [10:44:51] <trovster> Use hatom and hcard for comments
  121. [10:45:28] <trovster> But is getting annoyed because this XHR isn't being returned as XML :@
  122. [10:48:55] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@oliis.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  123. [10:49:04] <bunnywabbit_> what's xhr?
  124. [10:49:23] * bunnywabbit_ (n=d5277b02@213.131.245.124) Quit ("brb")
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  133. [11:17:25] <drewinthehead> did we lose jibot?
  134. [11:18:22] <bunnywabbit_> seems like it
  135. [11:18:45] <drewinthehead> shucks, i sure miss that little fella
  136. [11:23:56] * trovster slaps drewinthehead around a bit with a large trout
  137. [11:24:10] <drewinthehead> harsh, i feel.
  138. [11:24:39] <drewinthehead> as long as mfbot is still here, we're cool.
  139. [11:25:08] <trovster> <trovster> But is getting annoyed because this XHR isn't being returned as XML -- was coz of your best guess script sending text/html :)
  140. [11:25:54] <drewinthehead> oops
  141. [11:26:14] <drewinthehead> do you need a XML option?
  142. [11:26:50] <drewinthehead> it's all rather experimental, so i'm open to any suggestions/feedback
  143. [11:26:57] <trovster> Nah, it's fine.
  144. [11:32:04] <drewinthehead> even though the content-type is text/html, it should still be well formed xml
  145. [11:32:49] <trovster> It was well formed, but my script was looking for XML.
  146. [11:33:04] <bunnywabbit_> rss should be typed as xml+rss, right?
  147. [11:35:16] <trovster> Dunnope.
  148. [11:35:32] <trovster> I don't like sites which send it as a format which requires to be downloaded.
  149. [11:38:57] <drewinthehead> me neither .. but it's all a bit of a mess at the moment
  150. [11:40:20] <drewinthehead> the issue i have (and why i serve JSON as application/json) is that even if you serve it as text/plain you're not entirely safe from XSS
  151. [11:41:45] <drewinthehead> if you html-encode the output, that'll screw things up for applications that don't care about that (makes no sense for JSON) and if you don't and you're displaying the output in a browser, you're open to XSS attack
  152. [11:47:32] <drewinthehead> trovster: if you have any other ideas for useful services to whack onto tools.microformatic.com, let me know
  153. [11:48:10] <trovster> Cool. I'm running your script through my comment preview JS stuff. works quite well.
  154. [11:49:50] <drewinthehead> superb
  155. [11:52:19] <McNulty> Anyone ace with JS and regexes?
  156. [11:52:34] <McNulty> I'm trying to work out how this currency convertor Firefox extension works
  157. [11:52:56] <McNulty> But the object literal notation is breaking my brain
  158. [11:52:59] * trovster is guessing it work swith JS and regexes ;)
  159. [11:53:14] <McNulty> trovster - yeah was trying to see if I could document the rules it uses
  160. [11:53:28] <drewinthehead> got an example McNulty?
  161. [11:53:46] <McNulty> looks like it's matching (currency symbol)[\d.,]+
  162. [11:54:04] <McNulty> drewinthehead - well I'm poking around the XPI and have found the function that I think does it
  163. [11:54:16] <mn_francis> that means any decimal number or a . or a comma at least once
  164. [11:54:22] <McNulty> mn_francis - yeah
  165. [11:54:41] <McNulty> I'd paste the stuff somewhere but I haven't checked what licence it's under yet
  166. [11:55:36] <McNulty> brb
  167. [11:55:56] <drewinthehead> 'lo norm
  168. [11:56:04] <mn_francis> 'lo
  169. [11:56:32] <mn_francis> Drew, d'you follow the uf lists closely at all? I'm about 3 months behind on my archives
  170. [11:56:54] <drewinthehead> fairly closely ... i'm up-to-date
  171. [11:57:06] <mn_francis> is anyone doing any uf stuff in perl?
  172. [11:57:44] <drewinthehead> i've not seen anything mentioned, but if there's stuff out there it should be on the wiki
  173. [11:58:03] <mn_francis> my favourite search engine didn't find anything useful there
  174. [11:59:27] <drewinthehead> you may be out of luck then ... looking for parsers?
  175. [11:59:58] <mn_francis> parsers, creators, anything really :)
  176. [12:00:07] <mn_francis> (I'm a perl nut, for my sins)
  177. [12:01:41] <drewinthehead> looks like you may have the blaze the trail on that one
  178. [12:01:50] <mn_francis> whoo hoo!
  179. [12:02:55] <drewinthehead> perl and microformats ... it's like michael douglass and catherine zeta-jones
  180. [12:03:03] <trovster> haha
  181. [12:04:09] <mn_francis> it's not nice to insult microformats like that
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  183. [12:05:09] <trovster> mn_francis: tooshay
  184. [12:05:51] <trovster> touche, even!
  185. [12:06:04] <drewinthehead> touché!
  186. [12:06:18] <mn_francis> touché away!
  187. [12:10:50] <drewinthehead> the nice thing about a perl µF parser is that it could potentially be very fast
  188. [12:11:24] <McNulty> let's write one in C++ then
  189. [12:11:27] <McNulty> or assembler
  190. [12:11:34] <trovster> Damn mIRC and it's lack of UTF8 support :(
  191. [12:11:44] <drewinthehead> McNulty, feel free ... ;)
  192. [12:13:40] <drewinthehead> the real bottleneck is GETing the document and TIDYing it at the moment, for the stuff i'm doing ... parsing it lightning quick compared to those steps
  193. [12:14:08] <plaes> trovster: mirc 6.17 has utf8 support...
  194. [12:14:44] * trovster is running 6.16
  195. [12:15:01] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable153.95-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  196. [12:19:26] * drewinthehead fondly remembers mIRC
  197. [12:19:36] * McNulty is using a command-line client
  198. [12:20:05] <trovster> drewinthehead: What you using now?
  199. [12:20:20] <drewinthehead> Colloquy on the mac
  200. [12:20:30] <McNulty> I quite like Colloquy
  201. [12:20:42] <trovster> See, on the Mac I use that, and it really doesn't compare.
  202. [12:20:52] <trovster> I'm not comfortable with it et.
  203. [12:21:07] <drewinthehead> i was lukewarm on Colloquy until the new betas ... and not it's great
  204. [12:21:12] <drewinthehead> now it's ..
  205. [12:21:21] <trovster> I think I need to get them, then.
  206. [12:22:14] <trovster> But I like the small-space for the users in a channel, and the tab-across-the-top in mIRC
  207. [12:22:38] <trovster> Maybe 'coz I'm used to full screen apps
  208. [12:23:27] <drewinthehead> switching to the mac took me a while to train myself out of thinking everything had to be maximised to be 'tidy'
  209. [12:23:50] <McNulty> I find myself using Expose a lot lately
  210. [12:24:08] <McNulty> because I'm on an iBook with a pretty cramped screen it's hard to have lots of stuff open and keep track
  211. [12:24:56] <drewinthehead> virtual desktops help with that too
  212. [12:25:13] <trovster> Installed one of them, not quite got into it.
  213. [12:25:33] <McNulty> I use virtual desktops at work but haven't tried it on OSX
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  219. [12:41:10] <drewinthehead> anyone know of an hCalendar implementation that puts events on a timeline?
  220. [12:42:05] <McNulty> You might be able to subscribe to an iCalendar from inside Google Calendar, where the iCalendar is a convertor pointing at an hCalendar?
  221. [12:43:33] <drewinthehead> does Google Calendar have a timeline?
  222. [12:43:45] <McNulty> Oh, er... dunno
  223. [12:44:28] <McNulty> Possibly Outlook does, but it's been a while since I used it
  224. [12:45:08] <McNulty> actually google calendar doesn't seem to like the output from the technocrati feed
  225. [12:45:31] <McNulty> aah need to tell it to subscribe
  226. [12:45:58] <drewinthehead> i'm thinking it'd be awesome to have a Flash movie or something that you could dump on a page and have it present a timeline of all the hCalendar events on the page
  227. [12:48:19] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  228. [12:48:23] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
  229. [12:48:27] <McNulty> yeah that'd be quite neat
  230. [12:48:52] * McNulty wonders if he can sync Google Calendar with iSync
  231. [12:49:06] <trovster> Oh, that'd be good, then I'd have a use for my phone...
  232. [12:49:16] <McNulty> Currently I sync my phone + iCal
  233. [12:49:37] <McNulty> can't seem to synch the google calendar with iCal
  234. [12:52:29] <drewinthehead> woah .. look at this.. http://www.drleslie.com/Timeline/Timelines.html
  235. [12:53:51] <drewinthehead> not sure it's useful, but it's cool.
  236. [12:55:32] <McNulty> I don't get what the columns mean
  237. [12:55:52] <drewinthehead> no, me neither
  238. [12:56:04] <drewinthehead> i just like the scrolling effect
  239. [12:56:25] <bunnywabbit_> trovster: when you use hatom to mark up your comments, what do you put in hentry?
  240. [12:56:37] <trovster> Put in?
  241. [12:56:42] <bunnywabbit_> and could you give me that demo url you showed me yesterday?
  242. [12:56:51] <bunnywabbit_> not at home so don't have access to history
  243. [12:56:53] <bunnywabbit_> er
  244. [12:56:57] <bunnywabbit_> what data do you put in it
  245. [12:57:03] <bunnywabbit_> you said you put comments in hfeed, right?
  246. [12:57:13] * bunnywabbit_ has decided to figure out how this works
  247. [12:57:16] <trovster> Yes... wait... I'm going to paste it...
  248. [12:57:20] <McNulty> bunnywabbit_ - http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/
  249. [12:58:05] <bunnywabbit_> heh, right, mcnulty
  250. [12:58:16] <bunnywabbit_> bother, why doesnt cgi::irc have tab-completion?
  251. [12:58:19] <bunnywabbit_> or highlighting?
  252. [12:58:26] <trovster> http://paste.css-standards.org/1543/view
  253. [12:58:32] <bunnywabbit_> thanks
  254. [13:02:18] * vant_ (n=vant@c-24-18-237-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  255. [13:02:42] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  256. [13:04:42] <bunnywabbit_> oh, it does have highlighting
  257. [13:05:47] <bunnywabbit_> I think I'm starting to get it, trovster
  258. [13:06:10] <bunnywabbit_> so you mark up your html like that, and then a parser can come and transform that into an atom feed? is that the idea? or am I still missing the point?
  259. [13:06:22] <McNulty> that's exactly it
  260. [13:06:23] <trovster> No, that's the point exactly.
  261. [13:06:31] <trovster> I explained that yesterday, didn't I?
  262. [13:06:48] <McNulty> there are a few services around that will take a URL and spit out an Atom feed for it
  263. [13:07:10] <trovster> What about three hfeeds on a page ;)
  264. [13:07:22] <McNulty> pass
  265. [13:08:10] <bunnywabbit_> trovster: I'm a bit slow, excuse me
  266. [13:08:13] * stuup (n=stu@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) has joined #microformats
  267. [13:08:27] <bunnywabbit_> mcnulty: url for such a service?
  268. [13:08:36] <bunnywabbit_> tantek: ping?
  269. [13:09:29] <McNulty> bunnywabbit_ - http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/
  270. [13:09:47] * trovster wonders if that's been fixed to hand XHTML as application/xhtml+xml...
  271. [13:10:09] <McNulty> trovster - doesn't work on your paste
  272. [13:10:21] <trovster> Coz it's HTML?
  273. [13:10:32] <McNulty> mmmmaybe
  274. [13:10:39] <McNulty> does it only take XHTML mime types then
  275. [13:10:48] <McNulty> I've not used the service before
  276. [13:11:15] <trovster> No, doesn't work with HTML. Only works with XHTML sent as text/html.. go figure!
  277. [13:11:27] <McNulty> ah because it's doing an XSL transform I guess
  278. [13:11:39] <trovster> Should Tidy it first.
  279. [13:11:43] <McNulty> You'd think it'd be possible to convert, yeah
  280. [13:12:39] <McNulty> In PHP at least you can open up some HTML as a DOMDocument and spit it out as XML fairly simply I think
  281. [13:12:57] <McNulty> looks like they're using Python, but I'd expect it has similar capabilities
  282. [13:18:15] <McNulty> If it's just an XSL maybe I'll set up a service myself
  283. [13:19:37] * vant (n=vant@c-24-18-237-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  284. [13:21:27] <bunnywabbit_> trovster: do you have an hfeed in an hfeed on your page? did I see correctly?
  285. [13:21:42] <trovster> Don't think so, shouldn't do.
  286. [13:22:01] <trovster> I have three hfeeds under the one hatom, and hentrys under each hfeed
  287. [13:22:03] <drewinthehead> does mine work, trovster?
  288. [13:22:05] <drewinthehead> http://tools.microformatic.dev/help/xhtml/hatom/
  289. [13:22:23] <drewinthehead> with html
  290. [13:22:23] * trovster slaps drewinthehead around a bit with a large trout
  291. [13:22:49] <McNulty> .dev?
  292. [13:22:52] * bunnywabbit_ must have counted wrong, then
  293. [13:22:53] <drewinthehead> doh
  294. [13:22:58] <trovster> grrr, asks me to download atom+xml
  295. [13:23:08] <drewinthehead> http://tools.microformatic.com/help/xhtml/hatom/
  296. [13:23:16] <McNulty> trovster - that's up to the browser...
  297. [13:23:34] * trovster wants FF to show the XML parse string
  298. [13:25:30] <bunnywabbit_> trovster...
  299. [13:25:42] <McNulty> looks like it takes the first feed?
  300. [13:25:55] <bunnywabbit_> when I reach <div id="comments" class="hfeed"> I can count two unclosed divs starting from <div id="content-main" class="hfeed">
  301. [13:26:01] <bunnywabbit_> I counted all the open ones
  302. [13:26:04] <bunnywabbit_> and all the close ones
  303. [13:26:13] <bunnywabbit_> and there are two more open ones than close ones
  304. [13:26:27] <bunnywabbit_> so comments seems to be in content-main
  305. [13:29:58] * stuup (n=stu@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) Quit ()
  306. [13:30:26] <trovster> bunnywabbit_: Dunno what you're seeing dude, but 'This Page Is Valid HTML 4.01 Strict!'
  307. [13:31:48] <trovster> How can I get FF to show application/atom+xml as XML, I'm getting plain text.
  308. [13:32:49] <trovster> McNulty> looks like it takes the first feed? -- yes, but it tolls up the authors :S
  309. [13:33:28] <McNulty> interesting
  310. [13:33:40] * Charl (n=charlvn@net-153-111.mweb.co.za) Quit ()
  311. [13:34:09] <drewinthehead> it's correct that it only takes the first feed when transcoding to atom
  312. [13:34:22] <drewinthehead> with atom 1 url = 1 feed
  313. [13:35:07] <drewinthehead> you should be able to use a fragment identifier to get the other feeds
  314. [13:35:09] <trovster> http://tools.microformatic.com/transcode/atom/hatom/http://paste.css-standards.org/1543/view#comments
  315. [13:35:16] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  316. [13:35:27] <drewinthehead> (ssh! here he is now!)
  317. [13:35:36] <drewinthehead> ;)
  318. [13:35:37] <McNulty> everyone act natural
  319. [13:35:49] <trovster> http://tools.microformatic.com/transcode/atom/hatom/http://paste.css-standards.org/1543/view#content-supplementary don't see to work...
  320. [13:36:03] <pnhChris> drew taking over for jibot?
  321. [13:36:19] <drewinthehead> i'd be a poor replacement :)
  322. [13:38:13] * pnhChris reads the logs to make sure you all weren't being naughty
  323. [13:38:46] <pnhChris> btw.. a 20" LCD is a good remedy for a "cramped" ibook/macbook screen :P
  324. [13:38:52] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  325. [13:39:14] <McNulty> defeats the point a bit!
  326. [13:39:32] <drewinthehead> trovster: if the fragment thing isn't working, could be a bug in hAtom2Atom.xsl
  327. [13:39:38] <pnhChris> depends
  328. [13:39:45] <trovster> Could well be.
  329. [13:39:51] <trovster> What about the multiple author thing :S
  330. [13:39:54] <pnhChris> but seems to work for me :)
  331. [13:50:57] <McNulty> does anyone have a public hCard -> vCard XSL?
  332. [13:51:33] <drewinthehead> http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/
  333. [13:52:00] <McNulty> I mean an actual .XSL
  334. [13:52:07] <McNulty> rather than a service.
  335. [13:52:53] <drewinthehead> http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/xhtml2vcal.xsl
  336. [13:53:20] <McNulty> awe. some.
  337. [13:53:30] <drewinthehead> ah, that's hCalendar
  338. [13:53:31] <trovster> Behaviour question here... I have non-required form inputs, but one is a website URL, should I fail the submition of the form is this contains data, and it's invalid?
  339. [13:53:33] <drewinthehead> hCard: http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/xhtml2vcard.xsl
  340. [13:53:42] <McNulty> drewinthehead :-)
  341. [13:54:06] <McNulty> trovster - depends what the form is
  342. [13:54:13] <McNulty> we had a site that pinged URLs to check they were valid
  343. [13:54:34] <drewinthehead> in most cases, even if something isn't required, if they offer the data it should be in an acceptable format
  344. [13:54:36] <trovster> It's not that suffisticated.
  345. [13:54:52] <McNulty> some guy's wanted to add his site, and the DNS hadn't transferred over yet...
  346. [13:54:58] <trovster> drewinthehead: Perfect, consense of a few people there, and it was what I was already doing :D
  347. [13:55:28] <McNulty> oh, it's the same question really as whether you'd let them put in an invalid date
  348. [14:00:36] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  349. [14:00:36] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  350. [14:00:41] <bunnywabbit_> trovster: your page can be valid but have weird nesting
  351. [14:01:00] <bunnywabbit_> I asked you before if hfeed could be an element of hfeed, and you said no
  352. [14:01:12] <bunnywabbit_> the way your markup is done, you seem to have an hfeed nested in an hfeed
  353. [14:01:19] <bunnywabbit_> that won't make the html invalid
  354. [14:01:40] <trovster> Dude.
  355. [14:01:47] <trovster> Give me time to look at it
  356. [14:01:48] <trovster> Please?
  357. [14:02:04] * arapehl (n=chatzill@door.ml.nurun.com) has joined #microformats
  358. [14:06:20] <McNulty> trovster - yeah looks like your comments feed is inside the main post's hFeed
  359. [14:06:27] <McNulty> explains the multiple authors
  360. [14:12:21] <bunnywabbit_> sure, I'll give you time, no problem, just wanted to let you know -- and would you please stop calling me Dude? I'm not a dude.
  361. [14:12:28] <trovster> Ace, fixed it
  362. [14:12:39] * bunnywabbit_ is a girl, thankyouverymuch
  363. [14:12:51] <trovster> Dude, stop complaining.
  364. [14:14:23] <bunnywabbit_> hey. I point out an error in your page, and all I get is "stop complaining, dude"?
  365. [14:14:24] <trovster> ;)
  366. [14:14:26] <bunnywabbit_> not very nice.
  367. [14:14:45] <bunnywabbit_> I'd prefer something like
  368. [14:14:47] <trovster> No, the 'Dude, stop complaining.' was about complaining about the dude bit.
  369. [14:14:47] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  370. [14:14:53] <bunnywabbit_> "thank you, bunnydarling"
  371. [14:15:03] <bunnywabbit_> ah.
  372. [14:15:06] <bunnywabbit_> well.
  373. [14:15:16] <bunnywabbit_> I'd still rather not be referred to as a dude.
  374. [14:15:25] <bunnywabbit_> life is tough enough being a geeky girl, you know.
  375. [14:15:50] <trovster> And it's more of a 'duuuuuuueeewwwde' sound, which I think is informal enough to be applied to any one
  376. [14:16:39] <McNulty> On the interweb, everyone's a dude
  377. [14:16:42] <bunnywabbit_> well, i don't like it, sorry.
  378. [14:16:51] <bunnywabbit_> I'm not a dude, I'm a bunny.
  379. [14:16:56] <bunnywabbit_> ask KevinMarks
  380. [14:17:02] <McNulty> you're as much of a dude as you are a bunny
  381. [14:17:09] <bunnywabbit_> no way.
  382. [14:17:11] * bunnywabbit_ checks
  383. [14:17:16] * bunnywabbit_ is a gal, alright
  384. [14:17:19] <McNulty> trovster - does that service get your authors right now?
  385. [14:17:23] <McNulty> are you also a rabbit?
  386. [14:17:29] <bunnywabbit_> a wabbit :-)
  387. [14:17:34] <McNulty> check that while you're at it
  388. [14:17:39] <trovster> mcknut: For the first hfeed, yes.
  389. [14:18:12] <McNulty> cool-o
  390. [14:18:40] <trovster> But #content-supplementary gets the main article :s
  391. [14:23:51] <McNulty> right
  392. [14:26:41] * vant (n=vant@c-24-18-237-78.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  393. [14:30:31] <bunnywabbit_> is microformats.org down?
  394. [14:32:10] <McNulty> I can't connect
  395. [14:34:17] <mn_francis> same here, nada
  396. [14:34:33] * briansuda looks to the direction on tantek to see what he can do
  397. [14:36:15] <briansuda> just an FYI, sometime it is helpful if you spot SPAM on the wiki, or are having problems with the Mailing list, or you think there is some other problems, contact one of the Admins/operators to alert them to the issue
  398. [14:37:55] <briansuda> for those not as familiar with IRC, if you enter a user nickname "briansuda" their app usually alerts them in someway, this is a good way to get the attention of those who sit in the room but are not always looking in.
  399. [14:38:18] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  400. [14:38:35] * vant_ (n=vant@c-24-18-237-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  401. [14:39:09] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
  402. [14:39:36] <bunnywabbit_> I think tantek is still asleep ;-)
  403. [14:39:37] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  404. [14:39:49] <bunnywabbit_> I pinged him a couple of times already and didn't get much reaction out of him
  405. [14:44:01] <bunnywabbit_> briansuda: do you work at technorati?
  406. [14:44:32] <briansuda> nope, maybe that's why i'm awake? i'm also two hours ahead of them
  407. [14:45:24] * bunnywabbit_ (n=d5277b02@213.131.245.124) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  408. [14:45:35] * cgriego (n=cgriego@c-67-166-246-44.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #Microformats
  409. [14:45:38] * bunnywabbit_ (n=d5277b02@213.131.245.124) has joined #microformats
  410. [14:45:51] <bunnywabbit_> back
  411. [14:45:59] * cgriego (n=cgriego@c-67-166-246-44.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has left #Microformats
  412. [14:46:19] <bunnywabbit_> briansuda: do you work for technorati, by any chance?
  413. [14:46:28] * bunnywabbit_ pokes KevinMarks while she's at it
  414. [14:46:39] <briansuda> nope, maybe that's why i'm awake? i'm also two hours ahead of them
  415. [14:46:56] <bunnywabbit_> hehe
  416. [14:46:57] <bunnywabbit_> ok :-)
  417. [14:51:13] <drewinthehead> mailing list is still working
  418. [14:51:32] * vant (n=vant@c-24-18-237-78.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  419. [14:53:01] * bunnywabbit_ (n=d5277b02@213.131.245.124) Quit ("http://cocomment.com (EOF)")
  420. [14:53:23] * bunnywabbit_ (n=d5277b02@213.131.245.124) has joined #microformats
  421. [14:53:56] <bunnywabbit_> gah.
  422. [14:57:19] * vant (n=vant@c-24-18-237-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  423. [14:58:09] * bunnywabbit_ (n=d5277b02@213.131.245.124) Quit ("http://cocomment.com (EOF)")
  424. [15:05:14] * stuup (n=stu@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) has joined #microformats
  425. [15:06:55] * amanuelPB (n=amanuel@dsl-250.niagara.com) has joined #microformats
  426. [15:13:36] <McNulty> microformats.org is pingable and is accepting connections on port 80, it's just not responding to GETs from what I can see
  427. [15:14:17] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) has left #microformats
  428. [15:18:10] * stuup (n=stu@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) Quit ()
  429. [15:21:53] * stuup (n=stu@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) has joined #microformats
  430. [15:28:20] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
  431. [15:40:11] * stuup (n=stu@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) Quit ()
  432. [15:56:14] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  433. [15:56:37] <drewinthehead> nearly 9am in SF, so hopefully someone will be around to kick microformats.org
  434. [15:57:58] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  435. [16:01:21] * stuup (n=stu@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) has joined #microformats
  436. [16:02:13] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit ("Leaving")
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  438. [16:12:11] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) has joined #microformats
  439. [16:12:15] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has left #microformats
  440. [16:13:10] <dglazkov> should be back now
  441. [16:18:03] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  442. [16:18:34] * boneill (n=boneill@i-83-67-41-33.freedom2surf.net) Quit ("blah.")
  443. [16:18:55] <drewinthehead> yup, it's back ... thanks dglazkov
  444. [16:26:33] <amanuelPB> amette_: are you on Otavo?
  445. [16:26:47] <amette_> yup
  446. [16:26:56] <amanuelPB> lol hi.
  447. [16:27:01] <amette_> hi :)
  448. [16:27:14] <amanuelPB> so what do you think of the changes this week?
  449. [16:27:25] * chucker_ (n=chucker@p5489F2C3.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
  450. [16:27:42] <amette_> I'm not very acrive on otavo, I have to admit... :-/
  451. [16:28:04] <amette_> .. didn't check changes yet - I was whole week on the road - so you're really lucky to have gotten me right on time, when I came back :)
  452. [16:28:19] <amanuelPB> that's ok.
  453. [16:28:32] <amette_> :)
  454. [16:28:38] * amette_ loves the floatlet though :D
  455. [16:29:28] <amanuelPB> it is neat. those that know how to put favelets enjoy it.
  456. [16:30:52] <amanuelPB> just inviting everyone in now as we are about to enter public beta
  457. [16:31:48] <amette_> it's not only very beautiful, but very handy - it minimizes redirections and reloads, very good!
  458. [16:32:18] <amette_> ok, I'll spread the word and will check it out again - thanks for reminding me :)
  459. [16:33:05] <amanuelPB> great :)
  460. [16:33:41] <amanuelPB> amette_: let me know if you need anything.
  461. [16:34:01] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=7524 * Steve Ganz * (+14) Exploratory discussions - Added new marker for currency
  462. [16:34:33] <amette_> amanuelPB : sure, thanks
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  470. [17:06:29] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@oliis.plus.com) Quit ()
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  476. [18:03:04] <c> ;[
  477. [18:05:18] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@cackhanded.plus.com) has joined #microformats
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  479. [18:48:57] <mfbot> [[citation-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-formats&diff=0&oldid=7525 * JakobVoss * (+441) You should know - nice to meet you :-)
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  485. [18:55:54] <mfbot> [[citation-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-formats&diff=0&oldid=7526 * JakobVoss * (+238) +OpenDocument
  486. [18:56:39] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  487. [18:56:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o KevinMarks
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  489. [19:00:15] <mfbot> [[comments-formats-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/comments-formats-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+3146) [fr:comments-formats translation - to be checked by "bunny" ? ;)]
  490. [19:09:11] <mfbot> [[comment-problem-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-problem-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1988) [fr:comment-problem translation to be reviewed]
  491. [19:12:47] <mfbot> [[comment-examples-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1260) [fr:comment-examples to be reviewed]
  492. [19:31:52] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  493. [19:33:49] <mfbot> [[currency-examples-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/currency-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+5825) [fr:currency-examples localization]
  494. [19:34:15] <mfbot> [[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7527 * ChristopheDucamp * (+18) Participants -
  495. [19:35:21] <mfbot> [[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7528 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) typo
  496. [19:35:24] * mn_francis_ (n=mn_franc@cackhanded.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  497. [19:36:07] <mfbot> [[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7529 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) Ciaran McNulty -
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  505. [19:52:58] <mfbot> [[hlisting-proposal-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-proposal-fr&diff=0&oldid=7530 * ChristopheDucamp * (+90) Détails des Champs - translation in progress
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  507. [20:06:08] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) Quit ("Free at last!")
  508. [20:07:10] <mfbot> [[hlisting-proposal-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-proposal-fr&diff=0&oldid=7531 * ChristopheDucamp * (+276) Résumé des Modifications - translation in progress
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  511. [20:08:41] <mfbot> [[to-do-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do-fr&diff=0&oldid=7532 * ChristopheDucamp * (+9)
  512. [20:09:03] * mn_francis_ (n=mn_franc@cackhanded.plus.com) Quit ()
  513. [20:09:07] <DanC_lap> hmm... my PDA says it's mf-office-hours time... but I think it's off by an hour. anyway... I'm not sure I have any spare bandwidth this week.
  514. [20:21:22] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=7533 * ChristopheDucamp * (+363) Discussions Exploratoires - ajout suffix "fr" sur discussions exploratoires
  515. [20:22:08] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=7534 * ChristopheDucamp * (+110) Discussions Exploratoires -
  516. [20:23:19] <mfbot> [[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7535 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2) Ben Ward -
  517. [20:25:44] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable153.95-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  519. [20:29:36] <briansuda> not sure if anyone has seen or knows about this, but http://www.hubmed.org/ is publishing vCards for alot of authors, they have also started in on their own citation style, so this might be another good use-case example in the wild.
  520. [20:32:56] * izo_ (n=izo@mon45-1-82-238-101-243.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
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  523. [21:01:48] <drewinthehead> so, is now the anointed hour?
  524. [21:15:15] * Phae (n=phae@88-108-193-34.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
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  526. [21:29:06] <tantek> greetings
  527. [21:30:52] <drewinthehead> hi tantek
  528. [21:31:09] <tantek> hi drew
  529. [21:32:39] <imajes> hey tantek, how are you?
  530. [21:33:07] <tantek> hey imajes, it's been busy as usual
  531. [21:33:15] <imajes> of course
  532. [21:33:26] <tantek> how about you? any microformats projects come your way?
  533. [21:33:44] <imajes> i just formally setup my own mini agency over here
  534. [21:33:50] <imajes> so we're doing lots of fun stuff
  535. [21:34:04] <imajes> most of my time is still teaching people the concept of working in the semantic webosphere
  536. [21:34:15] * xtof (n=christop@ATuileries-152-1-18-26.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  537. [21:34:16] <Phae> That can be fun though, to a degree, don't you think?
  538. [21:34:55] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  539. [21:34:56] <imajes> after a while it gets boring to explain why <p class="big-header"> or <font size="24"> are not really useful compared to, oh, <h2>
  540. [21:35:13] <Phae> I suppose, if there's not really any progression after a while.
  541. [21:35:22] <Phae> But still, helping someone and seeing them "get it" is cool.
  542. [21:35:32] <imajes> i've taught about 4 teams this in the last two years
  543. [21:35:42] <imajes> progression typically takes months for it to sink in
  544. [21:35:59] * Phae nods.
  545. [21:36:13] <imajes> especially when you get stuff like, 'but i want the font size to be 24, how will h2 help??'
  546. [21:36:26] <Phae> heh
  547. [21:36:34] <imajes> or,
  548. [21:36:48] <imajes> "you can't use css on a h2, what are you talking about?"
  549. [21:36:51] <imajes> or,
  550. [21:37:09] <imajes> "google doesn't understand <h?> tags... you are only allowed to put text in a <p> tag"
  551. [21:37:16] <imajes> or,
  552. [21:37:25] <imajes> "aren't h tags supposed to be in the <head> tag? duh?"
  553. [21:37:44] <Phae> I think I get the idea :) That just seems like someone poorly educated in basic mark-up though, let alone anything more complex.
  554. [21:37:50] <imajes> in my head i'm thinking, 'and you're being paid £20,000 a year for this?'
  555. [21:37:51] <Phae> I guess I was assuming you were teaching people with *some* clue.
  556. [21:37:51] <Phae> heh
  557. [21:38:00] <imajes> clue has varying degrees
  558. [21:38:31] <Phae> mmhmm
  559. [21:38:35] <drewinthehead> i've found the step to understanding why microformats are useful is then another big leap
  560. [21:38:44] <imajes> indeed
  561. [21:38:59] <imajes> usually i've given up by then and am in the pub
  562. [21:39:02] <Phae> Yeah, it is. I looked at MF's a while back and didn't really click with it at first. It wasn't until my 3rd revision of the idea in my head that it sunk in.
  563. [21:39:25] <imajes> tantek: regarding the microformats..... i'm thinking of coming up with a virtual online exchange rate market for converting your lindens to your other-online-virtual-currency....
  564. [21:39:37] <imajes> so you can move money from one online community to another
  565. [21:39:48] <pnhChris> its a big jump.. but it seems to get easier to explain with more things to demo
  566. [21:40:10] <Phae> Yeah, it's true. When I did "get it", it was after seeing wild examples.
  567. [21:40:24] <imajes> biggest jump for me is to convince clients that it was worth them spending the money
  568. [21:40:31] <imajes> to do it properly
  569. [21:40:43] <imajes> rather than dicking around on a client because they paid not enough
  570. [21:41:04] <imajes> and also listening to all the seo experts go on about how it will break google rankings
  571. [21:41:10] <imajes> that's quite annoying ;)
  572. [21:41:19] <Phae> heh
  573. [21:41:29] <pnhChris> i shoot seo "experts" on sight
  574. [21:41:35] <imajes> indeed
  575. [21:41:39] <imajes> i remember one guy
  576. [21:41:43] <imajes> who was such an 'expert'
  577. [21:41:51] <imajes> we had to be interviewed to see if his company would give us a quote
  578. [21:42:01] <imajes> i was asked to listen in on the meeting
  579. [21:42:08] <imajes> he was making up half of what he said
  580. [21:42:18] <imajes> (apparently he turns a six figure salary .... )
  581. [21:42:22] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2444P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
  582. [21:42:44] <drewinthehead> and the other half he was repeating from someone else who'd made it up
  583. [21:42:48] <Phae> Yeah, there's a lot of cowboys. We had a client come by lately, and we did an accessibilty audit for them, and as part of that we checked their rankings. They'd paid some jack company to do their SEO.
  584. [21:42:49] <imajes> yep
  585. [21:42:53] <Phae> And yet they showed up *nowhere*
  586. [21:43:14] <imajes> i have come to the realization that seo is really just like trying to pin the tail on the donkey
  587. [21:43:17] <imajes> sometimes you get it right
  588. [21:43:19] <imajes> sometimes you don't
  589. [21:43:31] <imajes> but as long as your donkey is pinned up straight... you at least have a chance
  590. [21:43:32] <pnhChris> and sometimes the donkey gets you
  591. [21:43:40] <Phae> Well, maybe. But I think in this case, the company they'd paid had probably fed them a spiel, and really done nothing for them.
  592. [21:43:54] <imajes> totally
  593. [21:45:11] <tantek> seo = snake oil
  594. [21:45:31] <Phae> mm
  595. [21:45:38] <tantek> the best seo, if that's what you're trying to do is:
  596. [21:45:43] <tantek> 1. start a blog
  597. [21:45:47] <tantek> 2. write good content
  598. [21:45:54] <tantek> 3. link to other folks discussing the same thing
  599. [21:46:07] <tantek> 4. go to 2
  600. [21:46:23] <imajes> tantek: i argued for a month with one of my previous employers about whether they should do a blog, and how much time their marketing guy should spend doing it
  601. [21:46:31] <tantek> on top of that the following helps dramatically:
  602. [21:46:32] <imajes> he told me to get stuffed etc etc
  603. [21:46:40] <imajes> once it was up, sneakily
  604. [21:46:45] <tantek> 1. valid semantic (x)html with proper use of headings
  605. [21:46:54] <imajes> we improved traffic by 20% within three weeks of posting
  606. [21:46:55] <imajes> it's just sioly
  607. [21:46:57] <imajes> silly
  608. [21:46:59] <tantek> 2. "clean" URLs that have topical relevance
  609. [21:47:02] <imajes> yep
  610. [21:47:05] <Phae> I think the word "blog" can be a bit of a turn-off for some people. For uninformed, it's what kids do. Sell it to them as updates and articles instead.
  611. [21:47:11] <tantek> that's really all there is to it
  612. [21:47:12] <imajes> 3. regular posting with recent updates
  613. [21:47:16] <imajes> that helps _loads_
  614. [21:47:23] <tantek> yes, that's step 4 above ;)
  615. [21:47:23] <imajes> freshness is good
  616. [21:47:26] <imajes> :)
  617. [21:48:08] <imajes> tanktek: however the microformat for doing online virtual currency exchange seems quite alluring
  618. [21:48:21] <imajes> er, tantek
  619. [21:49:03] <drewinthehead> how are people doing that currently, imajes?
  620. [21:49:25] <imajes> i don't think they are
  621. [21:49:28] * imajes rubs hands in glee
  622. [21:49:50] <imajes> i've been pondering the idea of making it so that, in theory, you could almost transfer your linden money to your wow gold to airmiles
  623. [21:49:56] <imajes> each having an exchange rate
  624. [21:50:44] <imajes> no idea how it'd work in practice, but it's quite alluring
  625. [21:51:38] <drewinthehead> http://microformats.org/wiki/process#Document_Current_Behavior
  626. [21:51:46] <briansuda> imajes, i think that's the danger, without real-world examples you run the risk of boiling the ocean attempting to solve all the problems, when not really exists
  627. [21:51:57] <briansuda> ... none really exist
  628. [21:52:13] <imajes> briansuda: well, for another client, i have a definite use for being able to exchange some kind of 'credits' for real stuff
  629. [21:52:42] <imajes> and we'd like to interact with other online communities
  630. [21:53:35] * tantek_ (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  631. [21:54:18] <tantek_> part of step 2 above is tagging your well written content as well
  632. [21:54:55] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ("gotta run...")
  633. [21:55:10] <KevinMarks> seo by a 7-year-old
  634. [21:56:01] <drewinthehead> i saw benefits from simply adding rel="bookmark" to my permalinks ... and i rank well already
  635. [21:56:29] <KevinMarks> http://funnystories.blogspot.com/2002_05_01_funnystories_archive.html#85095380
  636. [21:57:12] <Phae> Cute.
  637. [21:57:22] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  639. [22:02:14] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=7536 * Kwilson * (+210) Added myself to list of hResumes in the wild
  640. [22:02:51] <drewinthehead> who was running the jibot?
  641. [22:04:53] <KevinMarks> termie
  642. [22:05:01] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  643. [22:06:04] <sreynen> i'd like a pony: it would be nice if requests for microformats.org/not-there were checked for a wiki page at microformats.org/wiki/not-there before returning a 404
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  649. [22:10:23] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  650. [22:14:37] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
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  654. [23:05:42] <mfbot> [[Main Page-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=7537 * IwaiMasaharu * (+74) sync: english: 16:33, 19 Jul 2006
  655. [23:14:49] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  656. [23:29:53] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7538 * Tantek * (+225) add creator and authoring to related pages
  657. [23:51:15] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=7539 * Tantek * (+1333) reorganized informative references to be like hCard and added some more
  658. [23:56:16] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=7540 * Tantek * (-649) more references, see also, further reading clean up

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