IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:04:52] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
  2. [00:05:03] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-creator-feedback * Tantek * (+603) first draft
  3. [00:06:18] <mfbot> [[hcard-creator-feedback]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-creator-feedback * Tantek * (+579) first draft
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  6. [00:42:30] <mfbot> [[hcard-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7541 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+162) Bug Reports -
  7. [00:46:07] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7542 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+45) Bug Reports -
  8. [00:46:23] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7543 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+0) Bug Reports -
  9. [00:53:09] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=7544 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+80) Implementations -
  10. [00:57:05] <mfbot> [[hreview-creator-feedback]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview-creator-feedback * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+648)
  11. [00:59:03] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) Quit ()
  12. [00:59:31] <mfbot> [[hcard-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7545 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+48) Bug Reports -
  13. [00:59:47] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7546 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+48) Bug Reports -
  14. [01:02:33] <mfbot> [[hreview-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7547 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+411) Bug Reports -
  15. [01:03:44] <mfbot> [[hreview-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7548 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+107) Suggested Tweaks and Fixes -
  16. [01:04:45] <mfbot> [[hcard-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7549 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+56) Bug Reports -
  17. [01:04:56] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7550 * Dmitry Baranovskiy * (+56) Bug Reports -
  18. [01:12:17] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-ja&diff=0&oldid=7551 * IwaiMasaharu * (+683) sync: english: 23:56, 19 Jul 2006
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  117. [07:58:21] <McNulty> morning
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  133. [09:54:46] <drewinthehead> morning
  134. [09:54:59] <McNulty> ello
  135. [09:57:11] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) Quit ()
  136. [10:02:28] <drewinthehead> i'm wrecked ... didn't sleep a wink
  137. [10:02:34] <McNulty> too hot?
  138. [10:02:57] <drewinthehead> yup ... and was parsing hReview in my head all night
  139. [10:03:12] * tantek realizes he should go to bed
  140. [10:04:30] <trovster> Ha, I've been called sad for working out a project data scheme while trying to sleep!
  141. [10:04:51] <drewinthehead> it must be, what, 3am for you tantek? go to bed! :)
  142. [10:05:14] <McNulty> I made the mistake of, at work, saying "Yeah I was thinking about this last night and we should do such-and-such"
  143. [10:05:27] <McNulty> and now I'm labelled as obsessive
  144. [10:05:29] <tantek> yes, 20060720T0307-0700
  145. [10:11:35] <drewinthehead> McNulty: i guess some people just do this for a job :) weirdoes ;)
  146. [10:13:14] <drewinthehead> the end of the work day is a signal to switch locations, not to stop being interested in what you do
  147. [10:13:50] <trovster> Damn, I just spent 10 minutes working out why this background image has disappeared. The file exists, and other background-images work...
  148. [10:15:37] <trovster> Finally worked out it was because it had the work 'advert' in and my adblock nuked it :(
  149. [10:16:35] <drewinthehead> hah :)
  150. [10:16:52] <drewinthehead> you have to be careful using IDs like 'banner' too
  151. [10:16:56] <drewinthehead> that's a common one
  152. [10:17:16] <trovster> <div id="banner" class="white"> -- like that :S
  153. [10:17:28] <drewinthehead> exactly
  154. [10:17:35] <drewinthehead> (class="white" ?)
  155. [10:17:44] <trovster> Yeh yeh ;)
  156. [10:18:34] <trovster> <div id="additional" class="blue"> ;) too
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  158. [10:19:11] <trovster> the styling has no obvious semantic meaning, it's not odd/even, so I just stuck with that.
  159. [10:21:02] * drewinthehead tuts ;)
  160. [10:21:32] <trovster> www.tlc.ac.uk - come on, the rest is good, it even has microformats ;)
  161. [10:22:06] <drewinthehead> but yeah, id="banner" is used all over the place for mastheads etc, and is stripped out by some of the crappier ad blockers
  162. [10:22:24] <McNulty> trovster - what does class="white" signify?
  163. [10:22:37] <McNulty> what makes it different from other banners?
  164. [10:22:58] <trovster> It might not be signicant on the homepage, but it's obvious on other pages...
  165. [10:23:15] <trovster> McNulty: I also use that class to apply the rounded corners.
  166. [10:23:26] <McNulty> ...
  167. [10:23:36] <McNulty> you use class="white" to apply the rounded corners? ;-)
  168. [10:23:39] <McNulty> GAH
  169. [10:23:55] <trovster> No, it's styling as well.
  170. [10:24:02] <trovster> It has no obvious semantic meaning, it's not odd/even, so I just stuck with that.
  171. [10:33:07] <drewinthehead> i don't know how you can sleep at night, trovster.
  172. [10:33:21] <trovster> Yeh, I know...
  173. [10:33:24] <trovster> ... it's too hot
  174. [10:37:04] <drewinthehead> i've no idea how i ended up dreaming about hReview all night
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  180. [11:05:36] <McNulty> all this talk about currency has reminded me to go and buy some Euro
  181. [11:05:40] <McNulty> Good work, uF!
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  206. [13:49:02] <mn_francis> http://flickr.com/photos/mn_francis/193964705/
  207. [13:50:06] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) Quit ()
  208. [13:54:46] <trovster> Oh, so mn_francis == norm.
  209. [13:56:37] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
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  211. [13:57:10] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  212. [13:59:40] <drewinthehead> are your slides online, mn_francis?
  213. [14:00:46] <mn_francis> No, it was a bit of last-minute keynote.
  214. [14:00:48] <trovster> Oh, so mn_francis == norm.
  215. [14:00:59] <mn_francis> And it doesn't say anything new.
  216. [14:01:10] <mn_francis> And I tend to put the information into what I say, not my slides. :)
  217. [14:01:23] <drewinthehead> fairy nuff
  218. [14:01:35] <mn_francis> And plus Tom Croucher would hurt me for being rude about the Semantic Web.
  219. [14:01:57] <mn_francis> mn_francis is indeed the Internet's Norm.
  220. [14:02:03] <drewinthehead> strtolower('Semantic Web')
  221. [14:02:27] <mn_francis> I'll write it up for my blog later thou.
  222. [14:02:39] <drewinthehead> shock, horror!
  223. [14:03:49] * drewinthehead thinks strtolower('Semantic Web') would be cool on a t-shirt
  224. [14:05:43] * drewinthehead notes that no one agrees ;)
  225. [14:06:21] <drewinthehead> what time does your presentation start, mn_francis?
  226. [14:07:44] <mn_francis> I'd love a t-shirt with that on. But first, a real microformats tee must be mine.
  227. [14:08:03] <mn_francis> Already done. I took the photo in the break of our 2 hour (!) quarterly update meeting.
  228. [14:08:19] <drewinthehead> ah, cool. well received?
  229. [14:15:07] <mn_francis> I'm sure I bored the pants off of most of the people there.
  230. [14:15:34] <mn_francis> But a few people said "good presentation". Including our newest designer. Which is good, considering I can't do design for toffee.
  231. [14:17:10] <mn_francis> Plus I showed up our dept. head who had some reaaaaally dodgy powerpoint going on.
  232. [14:17:14] <mn_francis> he he he
  233. [14:17:30] <drewinthehead> i bet if we put our minds too it we could design some interesting toffees
  234. [14:17:43] <drewinthehead> 'to it'
  235. [14:18:14] * Whiskey_M (i=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) has joined #microformats
  236. [14:18:23] <Whiskey_M> 'lo
  237. [14:18:37] <mn_francis> 'lo
  238. [14:19:47] <pnhChris> its too early to start with the whiskey
  239. [14:20:06] <Whiskey_M> it's never too early ;-)
  240. [14:22:56] <Whiskey_M> a lot of sleeping people in here then
  241. [14:23:52] <drewinthehead> as always
  242. [14:24:06] <mn_francis> zzzzz
  243. [14:24:21] * jrodgers (n=jrodgers@sherlock.uwaterloo.ca) Quit ()
  244. [14:24:50] <Whiskey_M> :) - has there been any formalisation of a products microformat yet?
  245. [14:24:56] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) has joined #Microformats
  246. [14:25:11] <drewinthehead> there's a draft for listings - hListing
  247. [14:25:16] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) has left #Microformats
  248. [14:30:01] <Whiskey_M> hmmm potentially could do with expansion to allow carts etc. to incorporate the functionality (totals etc.)
  249. [14:33:58] <briansuda> drewinthehead, at www2006, there was a JSON presentation, he mentioned that JSON now had a registered mimeType
  250. [14:34:11] <briansuda> from: http://json.org/JSONRequest.html The Content-Type in both directions is application/jsonrequest
  251. [14:34:25] <briansuda> but that is not what i remember him telling us, so i am still checking
  252. [14:34:40] <mn_francis> "The official MIME Media Type for JSON is application/json." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSON
  253. [14:39:02] <briansuda> thanks, mn_francis, that is what i remember him mentioning
  254. [14:39:05] <mn_francis> only mention on IANA of JSON is that too
  255. [14:39:09] <drewinthehead> thanks briansuda.
  256. [14:39:26] <briansuda> i am slowly catching up from the archives
  257. [14:40:48] <drewinthehead> application/json is what i went with in the end
  258. [14:43:49] <drewinthehead> i think i'm using application/php for the serialised php
  259. [14:44:06] <drewinthehead> i've no idea if serialised php is useful to anyone
  260. [15:10:01] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  261. [15:16:17] <drewinthehead> so i'm trying to hack together an hCalendar -> graphical timeline thing
  262. [15:17:12] <trovster> hack0rz
  263. [15:18:12] <briansuda> drewinthehead, i had started to play around with a similar idea, nothing to show for it....
  264. [15:18:15] <briansuda> http://www.dandelife.com/
  265. [15:18:35] <briansuda> that is a new site was something similar to what you are proposing (i think)
  266. [15:19:05] <trovster> '500 - Internal Server Error' - do'h.
  267. [15:19:16] <drewinthehead> i thinking of something like a googlemap in one dimension
  268. [15:20:36] <drewinthehead> that's a nice name .. dandelife
  269. [15:22:49] <ajturner> have you seen Simile
  270. [15:22:50] <ajturner> http://simile.mit.edu/
  271. [15:23:25] <ajturner> here's a good example of the JFK assassination timeline
  272. [15:23:26] <ajturner> http://simile.mit.edu/timeline/examples/jfk/jfk.html
  273. [15:23:42] <ajturner> an hCal to Simile XML conversion would be nice, and fairly easy
  274. [15:24:08] <Whiskey_M> this may be a really stupid question. Outside of the examples and documentation is there a standard definiation format for microformats, i.e. dtd, xsd?
  275. [15:24:15] <drewinthehead> ah, i'd not seen that ajturner. awesome .. could save me the effort
  276. [15:26:42] <ajturner> I'm planning on using it for when2where.com
  277. [15:26:56] <ajturner> so you can see a timeline of your appointments and travel times from GCal/iCal
  278. [15:27:19] <drewinthehead> the XML format looks really simple ... dead easy to convert from hCalendar as you say
  279. [15:27:41] <ajturner> wonder if it can't just be an XSLT :)
  280. [15:27:59] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
  281. [15:28:07] <Whiskey_M> I guess that was just a mindnumbingly stupid question then ;)
  282. [15:29:51] <ajturner> Whiskey_M, dunno, I was wondering the same thing. It would be nice if there was a single, clean, demo of all the MF's on a single page
  283. [15:32:50] <Whiskey_M> the website has a list which is human readable - I was just wondering if there were machine readable equivalents
  284. [15:33:38] <Whiskey_M> with namespaces etc.
  285. [15:34:04] <ajturner> is there a single example page?
  286. [15:34:06] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  287. [15:34:21] <Whiskey_M> http://microformats.org/wiki/Main_Page ?
  288. [15:35:03] <briansuda> Whiskey_M, XMDP is what defines the properties in a specific format
  289. [15:38:38] <Whiskey_M> hmmm, no datatypes?
  290. [15:40:12] <briansuda> not strict typing, much of it is described in prose. dtstart ISO timestamp
  291. [15:44:12] <Whiskey_M> I wonder if there is scope within the style attribute to place non-complex datatypes - i.e. <dt style="timestamp">dtStart</dt><dd>The event start date</dd>
  292. [15:44:45] <Whiskey_M> still a bit new to microformats, trying to get my head around them
  293. [15:46:18] <Whiskey_M> perhaps class rather than style
  294. [15:48:12] <briansuda> (i think) the style attribute is reserved for CSS data
  295. [15:48:37] <Whiskey_M> yeah, but class should work nicely
  296. [15:48:53] <briansuda> if you used class, then you'd still need to "pop-the-stack" and find another XMDP that defines "timestamp"
  297. [15:49:27] <Whiskey_M> I'd probably cheat and use xsd simple types
  298. [15:50:03] * vant (n=vant@c-24-18-237-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit ("Leaving...")
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  300. [16:00:39] <Whiskey_M> Is there any equivalent to namespacing with microformats?
  301. [16:01:42] <briansuda> nope, that is one of the major points we are trying to avoid
  302. [16:02:13] <Whiskey_M> why avoid?
  303. [16:02:16] <briansuda> because it is a controlled vocabulary, if to things mean the same thing, they get the same name. if they are different they they get different names
  304. [16:03:02] <briansuda> we are attacking the problem from a publishers point of view, not the programmers
  305. [16:03:40] <Whiskey_M> ok, I can see that - but (and I am again probably wrong), in common usage there doesn't seem to be a link between XMDP and the page the microformat appears on
  306. [16:04:43] <briansuda> yes, the reason behind XMDP is to help disambiguate some of the values
  307. [16:04:45] <briansuda> for example
  308. [16:05:14] <briansuda> if you just see class="geo" in HTML, there is NO 100% way that this is intended to be a geographic point
  309. [16:05:46] <briansuda> with a profile="http://example.org/profile/geo" then you can safely assume that class="geo" means geographic point
  310. [16:06:06] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@h-68-164-91-220.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net) has joined #microformats
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  313. [16:06:39] <Whiskey_M> fair enough, how is the profile linkage created?
  314. [16:07:58] <briansuda> HTML head element has a profile attribute
  315. [16:08:10] <Whiskey_M> missed that on the wiki
  316. [16:08:10] <briansuda> <head profile=" space seperated list of URLs">
  317. [16:08:37] <briansuda> XMDP is older than Microformats, http://gmpg.org/ has more info
  318. [16:13:18] * bear (n=bear@c-71-230-109-9.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
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  325. [16:26:33] <Whiskey_M> is profile used for any other data format outside of XMDP? W3 are being their normal oblique selves in the definition
  326. [16:27:45] * Harry_Slaughter (n=harry@ip68-8-170-38.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #microformats
  327. [16:32:09] <Whiskey_M> Found a few, I know it's not the case, but was there any reason why: <link rel="microformat" type="text/htm" href="http://example.org/format.htm" /> or something like it isn't used?
  328. [16:34:48] <hober> Whiskey_M: why invent something new when head@profile is already in HTML?
  329. [16:34:49] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit ()
  330. [16:35:26] <Whiskey_M> only because profile is used for a number of standards, there is no way to know you're getting a microformat definition
  331. [16:35:37] <tantek> Whiskey_M, XMDP followed the principle of minimal invention with respect to what is defined and hinted in HTML 4.01
  332. [16:35:54] <tantek> read http://gmpg.org/xmdp/description from start to finish
  333. [16:40:01] <tantek> in short XMDP was derived logically from HTML 4.01. all other uses of <head profile=""> have literally just made things up out of thin air.
  334. [16:43:57] <Whiskey_M> I can understand the reasoning, it's just there is a lack of formalisation from other bodies/recommendations - i.e. GRDDL
  335. [16:44:33] <Whiskey_M> or certainly it's usage on the demonstation at w3 (need to finish up reading the doc first to be certain on that one)
  336. [16:47:36] <Whiskey_M> nope, confused myself on that one - but it certainly is a hotch-potch (GR bit)
  337. [16:48:47] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) Quit ()
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  345. [17:18:46] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7552 * Tantek * (+605) noted regressions in latest hCalendar creator
  346. [17:30:00] * Phae leaves. | afk | at 06:29p [ P:On / L:On ]
  347. [17:30:00] * Phae is now known as Ph[a]e
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  349. [17:31:02] <Ph[a]e> oops. Sorry. Added the channel to my skip notification list.
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  351. [17:55:53] <mfbot> [[rel-nofollow-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-nofollow-ja&diff=0&oldid=7553 * IwaiMasaharu * (+112) informative references - 翻訳
  352. [17:58:39] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=7554 * Putin * (+4061) Start a microformats wiki in another language -
  353. [18:00:42] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  354. [18:09:06] <mfbot> [[User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map&diff=0&oldid=7555 * IwaiMasaharu * (+340) 分割
  355. [18:09:57] <mfbot> [[User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:IwaiMasaharu/english-to-japanese-map&diff=0&oldid=7556 * IwaiMasaharu * (+38) 英日対訳表 O-Z -
  356. [18:11:43] <mfbot> [[rel-nofollow-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-nofollow-ja&diff=0&oldid=7557 * IwaiMasaharu * (+7) open issues - タイトルだけ翻訳
  357. [18:26:42] * Ph[a]e is now known as Phae
  358. [18:29:54] <Phae> For hAtom, does the published need to have a time, as well as date?
  359. [18:30:19] <mfbot> [[hresume-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-fr&diff=0&oldid=7558 * ChristopheDucamp * (+212)
  360. [18:33:25] <mfbot> [[hresume-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-fr&diff=0&oldid=7559 * ChristopheDucamp * (+12) Statut -
  361. [18:38:24] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) has joined #Microformats
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  365. [18:58:07] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=7560 * Oliver Haag * (-4061) removed spam
  366. [18:58:39] <pnhChris> Phae: no..
  367. [18:58:52] <Phae> m'k, good :)
  368. [19:01:29] <pnhChris> any ISO 8601 formatted string is fine.. i think atom wants more sepcificity, but the parsers should hide that from the author
  369. [19:02:00] <pnhChris> see: http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-parsing#Parsing_datetimes
  370. [19:02:01] <Phae> Alright, I wasn't sure, and I couldn't see it noted anywhere. I don't publish a timestamp.
  371. [19:02:03] <pnhChris> oh.. wait :P
  372. [19:02:21] <Phae> hmm
  373. [19:02:21] <pnhChris> yeah
  374. [19:02:23] <Phae> I see. :/
  375. [19:02:24] <pnhChris> hehe
  376. [19:02:30] <Phae> Goody. :S
  377. [19:03:36] <pnhChris> but, for example, on pages i hand edit that don't really have a timestamp to the second I've been fine with using just a date... like <abbr class="published" title="2006-07-13">7/13/2006</abbr>
  378. [19:03:56] <pnhChris> (from http://placenamehere.com/mf/nnwextract/ )
  379. [19:04:37] <Phae> Okay. I could use a decent example to follow. I think I may be rather foolish in trying to hAtom my wordpress loop. :)
  380. [19:06:26] <pnhChris> shouldn't be difficult.. aside from potential issues with name formatting you should be able to handle it all just in the templates
  381. [19:06:51] <Phae> Yeah, it's not so bad.
  382. [19:10:53] <mfbot> [[User:Oliver Haag]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Oliver_Haag * Oliver Haag * (+269) created with links to me
  383. [19:12:55] <mfbot> [[User:Oliver Haag]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Oliver_Haag&diff=0&oldid=7561 * Oliver Haag * (+11) fixed private link (link text)
  384. [19:16:40] <Whiskey_M> can someone let me know if I've got this even remotely correct: http://www.redantdesign.com/hcard/ -- I'm guessing not
  385. [19:19:52] <tantek> Whiskey_M, wow that is very interesting
  386. [19:20:09] <tantek> I never thought about the possibility of encoding XML Schema semantics into an XMDP - very cool
  387. [19:20:50] <tantek> could you add a section like "XMDP XML Schema" to http://microformats.org/wiki/xmdp-brainstorming and link to your sample ?
  388. [19:21:52] <tantek> Phae, you could also just start trying to add hAtom, and paste your URL here for feedback
  389. [19:22:06] * tantek going to lunch
  390. [19:22:10] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  391. [19:23:08] <Phae> Yeah. I'm trying to minimise blonde moments first. It's been a very hot day here today. :(
  392. [19:29:06] <mfbot> [[xmdp-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xmdp-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=7562 * Richard Conyard * (+92)
  393. [19:31:25] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N117P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
  394. [19:37:22] <Phae> okay. I'm stuck now. :/
  395. [19:41:46] <Phae> It says updated is a required field, but your example doesn't have that, chris?
  396. [19:42:02] <mfbot> [[xmdp-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xmdp-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=7563 * Richard Conyard * (+942) XMDP XML Schema -
  397. [19:42:58] <Whiskey_M> Okay, added - but I guess you can see that ;-)
  398. [19:44:13] <mfbot> [[xmdp-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xmdp-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=7564 * Richard Conyard * (+2)
  399. [19:53:00] <bewest> Whiskey_M: that is neat
  400. [19:53:21] <Whiskey_M> I'm glad :-)
  401. [19:54:33] <Whiskey_M> although I knew they were around, I've only really bothered to look at microformats properly this afternoon (thus the stupid questions in here), and I'm still trying to get my head around them
  402. [19:55:06] * briansuda can think of much much sillier questions!
  403. [19:55:29] <Phae> Talking of stupid questions. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong with hAtom? http://www.fberriman.com
  404. [19:55:33] <Phae> On the blog entries there.
  405. [19:56:05] <pnhChris> Phae: if you read the field descriptsions you'll see that published will be used in its place in the absence of updated
  406. [19:56:22] <Phae> Yeah, I read on and found that, and have used published.
  407. [19:56:38] <Whiskey_M> whilst it's good that they don't require rocket scientists to put into pages, I must admit that I'd be more at home with the more formal xsd approach to description so I thought I'd have a play
  408. [19:57:49] <briansuda> Whiskey_M, alot of purists shutter at that too, but i'm glad you gave it a go! Microformats have a different audience that the strict format approach
  409. [19:58:46] <Whiskey_M> I know, but it would be good if they could go hand in hand with formal routes, or have some formalised route of translation
  410. [19:58:49] <Whiskey_M> off for a cig
  411. [19:59:38] <bewest> Whiskey_M: my only complaint is the density of the letter "x" on the page
  412. [20:00:27] <Whiskey_M> x?
  413. [20:01:39] * ajturner (n=irc@s233-64-126-217.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  414. [20:01:39] <bewest> the letter 'x' appears more frequently than in most texts
  415. [20:01:43] <pnhChris> Phae: not sure offhand... i can parse the document locally
  416. [20:01:58] <pnhChris> don't have the time to dig it apart at the moment
  417. [20:02:02] <bewest> because of all the abbreviations and whatnot
  418. [20:02:10] <bewest> and it's just a bad joke
  419. [20:02:41] <Phae> m'k. I'm tying to compare it to working examples, and I can't figure out what I'm missing.
  420. [20:06:31] <Whiskey_M> oh, sorry just gone 9 here and after 12 hours in the office I'm not to quick on the uptake ;)
  421. [20:10:44] <Whiskey_M> anyone know of a well formed page that uses hCard?
  422. [20:11:51] <Phae> Try the "examples in the wild" on the hCard page.
  423. [20:12:02] <Whiskey_M> diolch :)
  424. [20:12:05] <Phae> There's rather a lot of examples on there now, so there's bound to be something there that suits your need.
  425. [20:24:43] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@67-40-166-22.mpls.qwest.net) Quit ()
  426. [20:37:28] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  427. [20:37:51] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  428. [20:37:59] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489F924.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #microformats
  429. [20:38:18] * jrodgers_ (n=jrodgers@sherlock.uwaterloo.ca) Quit ()
  430. [20:38:45] <Whiskey_M> example added tanktek, hopefully that's what you were after
  431. [20:41:16] <Whiskey_M> right, time for the pub - evening all!
  432. [20:41:25] <Phae> night
  433. [20:41:27] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  434. [20:41:32] * Whiskey_M (i=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) Quit ()
  435. [20:45:40] <Phae> gah.
  436. [20:46:57] * tantek_ (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  437. [20:48:55] * McNulty (n=ciaranmc@i-83-67-5-75.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
  438. [20:57:49] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  439. [21:04:10] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  440. [21:04:34] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  441. [21:05:24] * McNulty (n=ciaranmc@i-83-67-5-75.freedom2surf.net) Quit ()
  442. [21:06:32] <drewinthehead> 'lo
  443. [21:08:02] <Phae> hi drew
  444. [21:08:29] <drewinthehead> hi Phae ... how's the hAtom coming on?
  445. [21:08:54] <Phae> :< I've made it worse somehow. Where as I was getting hAtom options, but not working, I've stopped that even working.
  446. [21:08:56] <Phae> It's going well. :/
  447. [21:10:24] <drewinthehead> it looks ok from here ... just managed to subscribe in my newsreader
  448. [21:10:37] <Phae> okay
  449. [21:10:52] <drewinthehead> all the entries have the same date though
  450. [21:10:57] <Phae> oh
  451. [21:10:59] <Phae> tha'ts... odd
  452. [21:11:02] <Phae> hmm.
  453. [21:11:36] <drewinthehead> although it could be this dodgy ViennaRSS thing ... let me check
  454. [21:11:38] <Phae> Source definitely has seperate dates.
  455. [21:11:47] <Phae> It's not just showing you the date you've received the entries?
  456. [21:11:51] <Phae> Rather than author date.
  457. [21:12:05] <drewinthehead> could be that.
  458. [21:12:12] <drewinthehead> i'll try in NNW .. that's better
  459. [21:12:57] <Phae> ok
  460. [21:13:17] <drewinthehead> ah, yeah, it's fine
  461. [21:13:29] <Phae> okay
  462. [21:13:37] <drewinthehead> dates, categories, the lot
  463. [21:13:43] <Phae> So what's the deal. Why doesn't GM grab it? I picked up chris' example fine.
  464. [21:14:04] <drewinthehead> GM?
  465. [21:14:08] <Phae> greasemonkey
  466. [21:14:25] <drewinthehead> ah, not sure...
  467. [21:14:54] <Phae> hmmm.
  468. [21:15:26] <drewinthehead> which userscript are you using?
  469. [21:15:32] <pnhChris> try this yet? http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/
  470. [21:15:42] <Phae> microformat-find0gm5
  471. [21:15:46] <Phae> -
  472. [21:16:00] <Phae> oh, swish.
  473. [21:16:30] <Phae> XML Parsing Error: no element found
  474. [21:16:30] <Phae> Location: http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fberriman.com&ctype=text%2Fxml
  475. [21:16:30] <Phae> Line Number 3, Column 1:
  476. [21:16:49] <drewinthehead> works with: http://tools.microformatic.com/transcode/atom/hatom/http://fberriman.com
  477. [21:19:33] <Phae> hm.
  478. [21:22:04] <drewinthehead> those are both running of the same XSLT
  479. [21:24:16] <Phae> I'm not sure what to do now.
  480. [21:25:01] <drewinthehead> i don't think i'm being overly liberal ... but i know trovster was having trouble with lukearno's version too
  481. [21:25:05] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
  482. [21:25:34] <drewinthehead> we're probably just using different methods to tidy the documents pre-processing
  483. [21:25:49] <Phae> Perhaps.
  484. [21:26:07] <Phae> It's hard work trying to find a mistake that isn't there :)
  485. [21:27:01] <drewinthehead> granted. if only writing validators was easy ;)
  486. [21:27:57] <Phae> I know, I appreciate that.
  487. [21:28:05] <Phae> Which is part of the reason I wanted to give implementation a go.
  488. [21:28:08] <Phae> I noticed there aren't many.
  489. [21:28:55] <drewinthehead> i found the spec a little tough to work with .. but i've never really looked too closely at the atom spec
  490. [21:29:26] <drewinthehead> my implementation is here (shh! secret!) http://version3.allinthehead.com/
  491. [21:29:46] <Phae> It's okay. But since I don't seem to have a tool that'll reliable pick up correctly formatted implementations, I'm having to compare to others'
  492. [21:30:09] <Phae> hm.
  493. [21:30:14] <Phae> My user script doesn't pick up yours either.
  494. [21:30:42] <drewinthehead> then i declare us the winners.
  495. [21:31:03] <Phae> :/
  496. [21:31:11] <Phae> \o/
  497. [21:31:35] * tantek_ (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  498. [21:31:43] <Phae> Okay, what's different about chris' implementation that makes his work?
  499. [21:31:48] <Phae> The only thing I can tell is the ordering.
  500. [21:33:42] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  501. [21:34:13] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  502. [21:37:05] <drewinthehead> I suspect the GM script may be a little hit and miss
  503. [21:37:56] <Phae> I guess.
  504. [21:38:29] <drewinthehead> i'm pretty sure I've implemented hAtom ok, and i'm pretty sure yours is too. parsing microformats can be hard because you never know where a class name will turn up, so it's not totally surprising if some implementations fly under the radar.
  505. [21:39:18] <pnhChris> you said you parse it with the current xsl doc drew?
  506. [21:39:32] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Putin" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  507. [21:39:36] <Phae> Okay.
  508. [21:39:40] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ()
  509. [21:40:06] <drewinthehead> yes pnhChris ... it works fine with my install of the xsl
  510. [21:40:24] <pnhChris> .. and my NNW script with a fairly old file works as well
  511. [21:40:38] <pnhChris> probably right with the tidy setting
  512. [21:43:17] <Phae> Cheers guys.
  513. [21:43:51] <pnhChris> the GM script is old
  514. [21:44:27] <pnhChris> so i'm not as concerned with it not working as I am luke's proxy
  515. [21:45:03] <pnhChris> at least in terms of checking the authored markup
  516. [21:45:10] <Phae> yeah
  517. [21:45:44] <pnhChris> its worth passing the issue to the list / to luke
  518. [21:46:30] <Phae> Is it more valuable if Drew does, since he'll have a better idea of what's going wrong?
  519. [21:47:14] <pnhChris> no one listens to drew :P
  520. [21:47:31] <Phae> heh.
  521. [21:47:44] * pnhChris runs away
  522. [21:48:35] <pnhChris> you'd be the one to help change or tweak anything.. so i'd say just go ahead
  523. [21:49:05] * friedcell (i=friedcel@BSN-77-78-252.dsl.siol.net) has joined #microformats
  524. [21:49:05] <drewinthehead> it's true :)
  525. [21:49:17] <Phae> fine!
  526. [21:49:45] <Phae> I'll send something to discuss then.
  527. [21:50:06] <drewinthehead> :P
  528. [21:50:21] <tantek> Whiskey_M, if you happen to check the logs, your addition to xmdp-brainstorming looks good
  529. [21:50:23] <tantek> thanks
  530. [21:50:43] <drewinthehead> as i say, i know trovster had problems too, so it might be worth asking him
  531. [21:53:33] * drewinthehead scans the logs
  532. [21:54:10] <drewinthehead> i think it was a problem with content-types ... perhaps luke's only accepts documents served as xml
  533. [21:56:32] <Phae> I see.
  534. [21:57:31] <drewinthehead> Phae: http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2006-06-28#T144314
  535. [21:59:57] <Phae> ok
  536. [22:01:16] <drewinthehead> you're serving as text/html, so probably the same problem trovster had
  537. [22:01:35] <friedcell> does anyone know the creator of Tails for firefox?
  538. [22:02:38] <drewinthehead> on the microformatic.com service, i'm using tidy to convert pretty much any input to xhtml for parsing ... not being strict about having the document sent as xml
  539. [22:02:42] <Phae> Did trovster get his "working"?
  540. [22:03:14] <drewinthehead> working against my version, i believe
  541. [22:03:32] <friedcell> I'm having some weird problems with it - when two contacts have the same name it tends to show only one. which is a problem if you're using hcards in a phone book :)
  542. [22:04:00] <drewinthehead> he's usually here during the day, so i'll quiz him in the morning
  543. [22:04:14] <Phae> okay. I'll hang fire on bothering
  544. [22:04:20] <Phae> * everyone else
  545. [22:05:24] <drewinthehead> 'k
  546. [22:05:43] <drewinthehead> i'm turning in ... night all :)
  547. [22:06:02] <Phae> night night.
  548. [22:06:07] <Phae> I should do the same.
  549. [22:06:13] * drewinthehead is now known as drewinthebed
  550. [22:07:53] <Phae> ok. night guys. i'll catch up on this tomorrow.
  551. [22:08:01] * Phae (n=phae@88-108-231-175.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
  552. [22:15:43] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  553. [22:15:43] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  554. [22:17:29] <tantek> friedcell, looks like details on Tails are available here: http://blog.codeeg.com/tails-firefox-extension-03/
  555. [22:18:43] <friedcell> yeah, i was hoping to get him here...
  556. [22:23:27] <pnhChris> so hows this for a wacky hatom implementation idea
  557. [22:23:40] <pnhChris> put a proxy on my site somewhere
  558. [22:23:50] <pnhChris> do to hato2atom
  559. [22:23:56] <tantek> friedcell, it appears that all the source is available there
  560. [22:24:06] <tantek> so hopefully it should be possible to make fixes etc.
  561. [22:24:17] <tantek> pnhChris, makes sense
  562. [22:24:19] <pnhChris> then use that in the link elements in the head
  563. [22:25:06] * pnhChris wonders why he hasn't thought of it sooner
  564. [22:25:44] <pnhChris> give every page a feed that can be subscribed via normal atom means
  565. [22:26:07] <pnhChris> without the need to fork the output code
  566. [22:26:57] <pnhChris> could do it with external proxies too
  567. [22:27:14] <pnhChris> though there isn't a real stable high volume service at the moment
  568. [22:28:51] <pnhChris> not sure it /really/ makes sense in the end... but its an alternative
  569. [22:29:57] <pnhChris> ... building a full page with all the non-feed content related work.. just to pass the markup around on the server side and reprocess it
  570. [22:30:34] <pnhChris> be a good example of how to get a "free" feed on your site though.. if you went the proxy route
  571. [22:31:27] * pnhChris looks aorund for some food and drink
  572. [22:40:10] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=7565 * Tantek * (+441) added Tails Firefox Extension and Calvin Yu
  573. [22:40:53] <tantek> friedcell, I've added the info on Tails etc. to the implementations page so hopefully it is easier to find in the future
  574. [22:49:00] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) Quit ()
  575. [23:09:33] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has left #microformats
  576. [23:10:11] <friedcell> and i just changed the source so it does not filter vcards with same fn.
  577. [23:12:31] <tantek> cool
  578. [23:12:52] <tantek> if you post your changed source perhaps Calvin Yu (Tails author) can incorporate your changes
  579. [23:13:25] <friedcell> i'll try to get an explanation first - there has to be one i guess
  580. [23:14:42] * DanC_lap (n=connolly@30-7-144.wireless.csail.mit.edu) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  581. [23:23:52] <friedcell> i have a logo for the org property in hcard. how should i mark it up?
  582. [23:24:17] <friedcell> <a class="org"...><img ... title="org name" /></a> ?
  583. [23:24:29] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ()
  584. [23:25:20] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) Quit ()
  585. [23:25:28] <tantek> well you would probably put it on the hCard for the org
  586. [23:25:34] <tantek> rather than on the hCard for a person of the org
  587. [23:27:13] <friedcell> actually the case is the first page of an s5 presentation
  588. [23:29:19] <tantek> cool
  589. [23:29:57] <friedcell> the tails export for your presentation at @media leaves the org blank...
  590. [23:31:10] <friedcell> eh i guess it has an old xsl..
  591. [23:33:45] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@67-40-166-22.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #microformats

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