IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:02:20] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@67-40-166-22.mpls.qwest.net) Quit ()
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  5. [00:13:56] <tantek> hmm... that is odd
  6. [00:14:03] <tantek> (re: org blank)
  7. [00:14:11] <tantek> I think Tails needs some bug reports ;)
  8. [00:14:26] <tantek> perhaps leave comments on Calvin's latest blog entry on it
  9. [00:17:34] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=7566 * Tantek * (+261) added WP Microformatted Blogroll
  10. [00:19:55] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=7567 * Tantek * (+99) add Chris Messina
  11. [00:20:32] <factoryjoe> it should be added to the mf HG installl
  12. [00:20:39] <factoryjoe> and mf.org really ought have an install of trac
  13. [00:21:01] <factoryjoe> the firefox community had such a system for reporting sites that didn't work w/ firefox
  14. [00:21:11] <factoryjoe> it would be useful to do the same for sites w/ bad microformats
  15. [00:22:41] <tantek> for now they just get added to the Examples in the Wild section of each spec they support
  16. [00:22:56] <tantek> and then anyone can add nested list commentary just underneath their entries
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  18. [00:35:06] * friedcell (i=friedcel@BSN-77-78-252.dsl.siol.net) Quit ("Those who ignore standards are doomed to reinvent them")
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  26. [01:42:38] <deanero> is anyone here going to be in portland for the open source conference?
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  33. [02:09:34] <mfbot> [[picoformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=7568 * Chris Messina * (+205) adding references to other services' vocabulae
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  42. [03:26:42] <Hixie> holy jesus
  43. [03:26:51] <Hixie> the w3c might actually stop using years in their namespace names
  44. [03:26:57] <Hixie> praise the lord!
  45. [03:31:21] <tantek> ok, who is impersonating Hixie on the channel?
  46. [03:31:32] <tantek> Hixie would not make such comments [1]
  47. [03:31:36] <tantek> [1] http://ian.hixie.ch/
  48. [03:31:41] <Hixie> hah
  49. [03:31:52] <Hixie> i'm just in awe
  50. [03:32:11] <Hixie> i'm especially impressed because i didn't actually ask them to do it
  51. [03:32:49] <Hixie> i just told someone else, not a w3c person, in public, that "i'm using a temporary namespace while waiting for the w3c to change its namespace policy"
  52. [03:32:57] <Hixie> and mere weeks later, they consider changing their namespace policy!
  53. [03:35:01] * tantek also refers Hixie to http://neoglam.com/?p=52
  54. [03:36:54] <Hixie> i prefer saying things that might offend people of faulty faith ;-)
  55. [03:36:55] * Hixie ducks
  56. [03:38:36] * tantek briefly considers reorganizing his website with the top level only consisting of /YYYY/ for the current year
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  64. [05:19:55] <mfbot> [[chat-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=7569 * Chris Messina * (+1164) added jabber IRC transcript
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  68. [05:25:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  70. [05:28:14] <factoryjoe> heya tantek
  71. [05:28:29] <tantek> heya
  72. [05:29:41] <factoryjoe> so
  73. [05:30:00] <factoryjoe> i was wondering if it would make sense to create a pico-discuss@microformats.org?
  74. [05:30:06] <factoryjoe> i've got 4-5 folks interested in the topic
  75. [05:30:18] <factoryjoe> and having the conversations available in a public archive would be interesting
  76. [05:30:22] <factoryjoe> and useful
  77. [05:30:59] <factoryjoe> and, getting help documenting all the services adding SMS would be useful as they emerge...
  78. [05:31:08] <factoryjoe> dodgeball, twttr, flagr, mozes, etc
  79. [05:31:18] <factoryjoe> and i don't want to muddy the mF list
  80. [05:34:09] <factoryjoe> tantek?
  81. [05:34:54] <tantek> I think as long as you are following microformats process, it could be quite useful for folks to watch
  82. [05:35:02] <factoryjoe> ok
  83. [05:35:04] <factoryjoe> that's the idea
  84. [05:35:09] <factoryjoe> there's a lot of good stuff emerging
  85. [05:35:16] <tantek> perhaps if folks wanted to prepend their messages with [pf] or something
  86. [05:35:16] <factoryjoe> and lots of community interest in DIY apps
  87. [05:35:21] <tantek> their subjects that is
  88. [05:35:21] <factoryjoe> mm
  89. [05:35:28] <factoryjoe> you mean instead of creating a new list?
  90. [05:35:31] <factoryjoe> we could do that for now
  91. [05:35:32] <tantek> then folks that really didn't want to see it could filter it out
  92. [05:35:34] <tantek> yes
  93. [05:35:55] <factoryjoe> OTOH, that means that the archives will be blurred
  94. [05:36:00] <factoryjoe> if we ever start our own list
  95. [05:36:02] <tantek> I'm not convinced it is significant enough to deal with the "weight" of having another list.
  96. [05:36:07] <factoryjoe> OTOOH
  97. [05:36:14] <factoryjoe> [pf] means we get more visibility
  98. [05:36:17] <factoryjoe> ok
  99. [05:36:31] <tantek> once it grows too big, then it makes sense to move it to another list
  100. [05:36:34] <factoryjoe> ok
  101. [05:36:36] <factoryjoe> sounds good
  102. [05:36:38] <factoryjoe> also
  103. [05:36:43] <tantek> and for that matter, have you registered picoformats.org ?
  104. [05:36:44] <factoryjoe> jabber has an XHTML schema for chat
  105. [05:36:49] <tantek> yay!
  106. [05:36:51] <factoryjoe> i have
  107. [05:36:54] <factoryjoe> http://www.jabber.org/jeps/jep-0071.html
  108. [05:36:58] <tantek> so just see how it goes
  109. [05:37:07] <factoryjoe> i need to hook you up with stpeter
  110. [05:37:18] <tantek> and if it really does take off in traffic and specs etc. then it is easy enough to for it go off on its own
  111. [05:37:27] <tantek> no, don't make me a bottleneck
  112. [05:37:41] <tantek> you need to hook stpeter up with microformats-discuss
  113. [05:37:42] <factoryjoe> no, you two just need to meet
  114. [05:37:48] <factoryjoe> fair enough
  115. [05:38:44] <tantek> i think it makes sense for microformats.org to incubate related efforts, especially efforts with similar / heavily-overlapping methodologies
  116. [05:38:52] <tantek> what do others' think?
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  139. [07:25:37] <Whiskey_M> 'lo
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  151. [10:16:21] <drewinthehead> 'lo
  152. [10:16:31] <McNulty> hi
  153. [10:16:44] <drewinthehead> morning McNulty
  154. [10:22:32] <drewinthehead> ping trovster
  155. [10:22:45] <trovster> pong drewinthehead
  156. [10:23:26] <drewinthehead> am i right in thinking you concluded that your hAtom implementation was fine?
  157. [10:23:51] <drewinthehead> even though lukearno's hAtom2Atom wasn't dealing with it
  158. [10:25:06] <trovster> I haven't a clue whether my implementation is 100% correct, I think so
  159. [10:25:30] <McNulty> what is the hAtom2Atom getting wrong? Was it just the fragment addressing?
  160. [10:25:55] <trovster> Doesn't take HTML.
  161. [10:26:38] <McNulty> oh
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  163. [10:32:01] <drewinthehead> i think that's all it is ... luke's script is being fussy about input
  164. [10:32:37] <drewinthehead> i'm using the same xsl for mine and that seems to work ok
  165. [10:35:18] <trovster> But the #fragment doesn't work, I think
  166. [10:37:10] * chucker_ (n=chucker@p5489E9A2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  167. [10:41:07] <drewinthehead> yeah, i wonder if that's just never been implemented
  168. [10:47:51] <drewinthehead> that's a silly thing to wonder about .. i'll just look!
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  171. [10:55:20] <drewinthehead> hAtom2Atom should be respecting fragments .. from the source at least.
  172. [10:58:17] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) has joined #microformats
  173. [10:59:34] <drewinthehead> trovster: have you got your multiple-hAtom page live or on a pasteboard somewhere? i'll run some tests and fiddle with the config options
  174. [10:59:47] <trovster> It can be...
  175. [11:01:31] <trovster> http://paste.css-standards.org/1605/view
  176. [11:02:16] <drewinthehead> thanks
  177. [11:15:27] <McNulty> anyone recommend decent cheap-ish PHP hosting? UK would be good.
  178. [11:15:36] <McNulty> Want to run 3-4 sites off it but am stingy
  179. [11:23:55] <drewinthehead> McNulty: i use memset.com
  180. [11:24:47] <McNulty> hmmm the dedicated miniserver looks good
  181. [11:28:25] <drewinthehead> yup, that's what i have .. been very pleased
  182. [11:30:02] <drewinthehead> for instance, when i was on the front page of digg.com last december and my sites stopped responding, i just got on the phone to them and they allocated more RAM and CPU, then rebooted the box and whipped through to see if there was anywhere my apache config could be tuned for the traffic. really impressive.
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  200. [12:19:55] <McNulty> drewinthehead - memset seem really good, thanks
  201. [12:24:17] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) Quit ("i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)")
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  203. [12:26:43] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7570 * DrewMcLellan * (+804) Hyperlink Include - Screen Reader Testing -
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  206. [12:30:34] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7571 * DrewMcLellan * (-5) Objects and Browser Behavior -
  207. [12:38:43] <drewinthehead> i just managed to convince someone that air conditioning was invented by one Mr John Aircon
  208. [12:39:30] <trovster> heh.
  209. [12:39:37] <trovster> Did you get the #fragment working, btw?
  210. [12:40:46] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-141-198.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  213. [12:44:30] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7572 * DrewMcLellan * (+81) Hyperlink Include - Screen Reader Testing -
  214. [12:44:44] <drewinthehead> no luck on #fragment yet, trovster
  215. [12:48:43] <trovster> Oh well :( pub time!
  216. [12:51:07] <drewinthehead> mmm pub!
  217. [12:51:21] * drewinthehead has no one to go to the pub with :(
  218. [12:51:41] <mn_francis> you will, in just over a week
  219. [12:52:09] <drewinthehead> huzzah!
  220. [12:52:22] <drewinthehead> but you don't like pubs, norm
  221. [12:52:37] <mn_francis> that's true, I'm allergic to pubs
  222. [12:52:47] <mn_francis> my head gets all fuzzy and I can't stand up straight
  223. [12:59:52] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  224. [13:00:32] <drewinthehead> 'lo pnhChris
  225. [13:01:13] * drewinthehead still misses the jibot
  226. [13:01:55] * pnhChris wants to go back to be and sleep though the day
  227. [13:04:17] <mfbot> [[irc]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=7573 * DrewMcLellan * (+88) Greetings -
  228. [13:18:22] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  229. [13:24:45] <mn_francis> alright ... I'm trying to sign up to the wiki and it says "You have not specified a valid user name." Be nice if it said what a valid user name might look like. :)
  230. [13:25:48] <drewinthehead> hah .. i think that confuses everyone
  231. [13:26:11] <drewinthehead> I think it needs to LookLikeThis
  232. [13:26:27] <mn_francis> you're kidding me?
  233. [13:26:39] <drewinthehead> so MarkNormanFrancis should be ok
  234. [13:26:46] <drewinthehead> or TheInternetsNorm
  235. [13:27:05] <mn_francis> Lordy
  236. [13:27:12] <drewinthehead> yes, that'd work too
  237. [13:27:21] <pnhChris> needs to be a valid WikiWord
  238. [13:27:34] <mn_francis> tut
  239. [13:27:39] <drewinthehead> KingOfTheBritains
  240. [13:27:47] <mn_francis> he he he
  241. [13:27:53] <mn_francis> 'You are logged in as "MarkNormanFrancis". Your internal ID number is 685.'
  242. [13:28:02] <mn_francis> I am not an internal ID! I am a free man!
  243. [13:28:19] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  244. [13:28:20] <pnhChris> not anymore.. didn't you read the terms of use?
  245. [13:28:43] <drewinthehead> you're ours now. mwhaha mwhahahaha!
  246. [13:29:06] * DanC_lap (n=connolly@30-7-144.wireless.csail.mit.edu) has joined #microformats
  247. [13:29:36] <drewinthehead> so Phae has run the a.include test page we made through JAWS and it seems fine
  248. [13:30:07] <Whiskey_M> dear me, someone has been either in the sun too much or had mushroom suprise for lunch ;)
  249. [13:30:09] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=7574 * MarkNormanFrancis * (+63) add Norm
  250. [13:30:18] <drewinthehead> of course, that's only one screen reader, but it's the one that was cited as potentially being a problem
  251. [13:30:38] <drewinthehead> Whiskey_M: you raise a good point - lunch!
  252. [13:30:52] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable153.95-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  253. [13:30:56] <Whiskey_M> indeed!
  254. [13:31:20] <Whiskey_M> but will it be lunch, or no lunch and take advantage of POETS
  255. [13:31:38] <drewinthehead> i never take advantage of poets.
  256. [13:31:50] <mfbot> [[User:MarkNormanFrancis]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:MarkNormanFrancis * MarkNormanFrancis * (+76)
  257. [13:32:22] <Whiskey_M> 'tis a pity, the weather is just right for it (poets - piss off early tomorrows saturday)
  258. [13:34:34] <drewinthehead> ah, that kind of POETS ;)
  259. [13:34:58] <drewinthehead> i was thinking of taking advantage of a totally different kind of poet.
  260. [13:35:34] <Whiskey_M> no, 'tis best to leave that kind to get on with talking about or to hosts of daffodills
  261. [13:47:00] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  262. [13:53:01] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7575 * Phae * (+12) Test Results: JAWS 7.0 with Firefox 1.5/Win -
  263. [13:53:38] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  264. [13:53:38] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  265. [13:56:39] <drewinthehead> 'lo brian
  266. [14:00:25] * trovster is all pub'd out
  267. [14:00:35] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #microformats
  268. [14:02:35] <McNulty> pub lunches kill my productivity on a friday
  269. [14:03:30] * drewinthehead could eat a scabby horse
  270. [14:08:50] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
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  273. [14:11:33] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=7576 * Phae * (+148) Examples in the wild -
  274. [14:14:04] <mfbot> [[User:Phae]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Phae&diff=0&oldid=7577 * Phae * (-8)
  275. [14:14:17] <Whiskey_M> I think I have eaten a scabby horse - either that or a fine burger from the McChain
  276. [14:46:03] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]")
  277. [14:53:42] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) Quit ("i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)")
  278. [14:55:09] <boneill> with the hatom spec, could you have multiple hfeeds on a page?
  279. [14:55:42] <boneill> e.g. if there is some other junk between a block of hentrys and more hentry
  280. [14:58:36] <drewinthehead> i think in that case boneill, you need to use #fragments to reference your feeds
  281. [14:58:51] <drewinthehead> we've been discussing this a bit today
  282. [14:59:37] <pnhChris> really need to get some of that discussion into the wiki
  283. [14:59:46] <pnhChris> but yes.. you can have multiple feeds
  284. [15:00:09] <pnhChris> using fragment ids on explicit root hfeed elements is a good idea
  285. [15:00:15] <trovster> But the XSLT parser doesn't work, as yet.
  286. [15:01:59] <pnhChris> no.. the widely used scipt just grabs the first feed it can at the moment
  287. [15:02:17] <pnhChris> part of the reason i'd like to wrap up the discussion...
  288. [15:02:27] <pnhChris> so someone has a reference point for changing it
  289. [15:03:43] <drewinthehead> from the XSLT though, it looks like it should be dealing with the first feed in can find within the given fragment
  290. [15:04:29] <drewinthehead> just added (experimental) RSS to my hAtom transcoder: http://tools.microformatic.com/help/xhtml/hatom/
  291. [15:07:12] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
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  293. [15:10:12] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=7578 * Trovster * (+43)
  294. [15:11:58] <mfbot> [[User:Trovster]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Trovster * Trovster * (+142)
  295. [15:14:07] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  297. [15:21:00] <Whiskey_M> I've looked, but I haven't seen this (so sorry if I need to put my glasses on). With XMDP is there any set notation that shows that a meta element will be an attribute rather than a node value?
  298. [15:21:16] <Whiskey_M> i.e. the uri in hCard
  299. [15:31:13] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) has joined #Microformats
  300. [15:33:25] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  301. [15:42:10] <briansuda> Whiskey_M, can you elaborate? with XMDP the values are children of a node which describes where the values can be found rel->(vote-for | vote-against | vote-abstain)
  302. [15:43:01] * boneill (i=boneill@i-83-67-41-33.freedom2surf.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  303. [15:46:40] <Whiskey_M> it's me with my sad xsd again, I'm just trying to figure out whether there is any trigger I can use know now in the case of "<a class="fn url" href="http://www.thinkcolony.com/">Richard Conyard</a>" that the href is the URL and the fn is the node text
  304. [15:55:50] <briansuda> i see what you mean, at the moment there is no machine readable way, this is defined by the semantics of the element and of the property
  305. [15:56:13] <briansuda> so an xsl:type for URI when on an 'a' element would look to @href
  306. [15:57:01] <briansuda> anything on an abbr uses @title
  307. [15:59:34] <Whiskey_M> that's the chief pity I can see -- I know Microformats and XMDP are humans first and machines second - but it is very hard for machines to get around
  308. [15:59:36] * Whiskey_M reaches for flameproof overcoat
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  326. [16:41:31] * irc.freenode.net changes topic to 'Y! Local supports microformats! http://ylocalblog.com/blog/2006/06/21/we-now-support-microformats/ || add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc || http://www.digital-web.com/articles/microformats_primer/ | Channel is logged: http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot'
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  341. [16:44:23] <ajturner> what miniserver? a colomini?
  342. [16:44:32] * rabble (n=evan@protest.net) has joined #microformats
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  344. [16:45:15] <Whiskey_M> netsplit?
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  357. [17:00:47] <mfbot> [[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=7579 * ChristopheDucamp * (+289) Firefox - sync
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  362. [17:07:48] <mfbot> [[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=7580 * ChristopheDucamp * (+551)
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  365. [17:14:54] <mfbot> [[picoformats-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/picoformats-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+965) [fr:picoformats translation]
  366. [17:17:01] <mfbot> [[picoformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=7581 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1)
  367. [17:17:47] <mfbot> [[picoformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=7582 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3) typo
  368. [17:18:07] <mfbot> [[picoformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=7583 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3)
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  377. [17:36:29] <mfbot> [[chat-examples-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/chat-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+17211) [fr: chat-examples to be reviewed]
  378. [17:37:15] <mfbot> [[chat-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7584 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) Format ILRT Logger Bot -
  379. [17:37:41] <mfbot> [[chat-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7585 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) Contributeurs -
  380. [17:41:57] <mfbot> [[irc-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-fr&diff=0&oldid=7586 * ChristopheDucamp * (+281) Les gens sur irc -
  381. [17:44:28] <mfbot> [[hatom-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-fr&diff=0&oldid=7587 * ChristopheDucamp * (+153) Implémentations -
  382. [17:45:05] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable153.95-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  383. [17:48:21] <csarven> http://www.csarven.ca/where-are-my-web-standards -- leave a comment if you like to share your perspective =)
  384. [17:49:02] <trovster> nah
  385. [17:53:27] * amanuel (n=amanuel@24.150.141.198) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  390. [18:04:55] <mfbot> [[hlisting-proposal-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-proposal-fr&diff=0&oldid=7588 * ChristopheDucamp * (+349) Détails des Champs - translation in progress
  391. [18:09:04] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@67-40-166-22.mpls.qwest.net) Quit ()
  392. [18:17:15] <trovster> Hello anyone?
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  430. [23:15:15] <lgonze> hey folks, long time no see
  431. [23:15:47] <lgonze> I'm stopping by to see if there has been any substantive progress in microformats for music, playlists, or media
  432. [23:16:01] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-141-198.home.cgocable.net) Quit ()
  433. [23:16:27] <lgonze> I just read the media-metadata-examples etc work and browsed the -discuss archives, and it looks like there isn't much to speak of
  434. [23:16:43] <lgonze> anyway, I'm going to restart my own stuff and wanted to be sure that I'm not missing anything
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  439. [23:18:46] <lgonze> hey KevinMarks, how are you?
  440. [23:20:15] <KevinMarks> hi lucas, pretty good
  441. [23:20:43] <lgonze> do you mind giving a reality check for my plan?
  442. [23:20:49] <KevinMarks> Lets work on the media stuff - there has been a little progress but not much - would be good to try and converge, and I have a group of interested video people
  443. [23:20:58] <lgonze> cool and interesting.
  444. [23:21:00] <lgonze> lucas@gonze.com
  445. [23:21:02] <KevinMarks> I have a proposal for alternative versions that I like
  446. [23:21:36] <KevinMarks> sure
  447. [23:21:38] <KevinMarks> kmarks@mac.com
  448. [23:22:01] <lgonze> interesed to hear your idea
  449. [23:22:02] <KevinMarks> http://microformats.org/wiki/alternates-brainstorming#Strawman_6_.28lists_.2B_explicit_alternator_.2B_using_existing_HTML_idiom.29
  450. [23:22:50] <KevinMarks> I also think we could likely converge on a chapterlist format,as many podcasts publish these
  451. [23:23:14] <lgonze> I like your idea of re-using the term "alternate"
  452. [23:24:14] <KevinMarks> I think that it is reasonably legitimate, especially in a podcast liek context, as the text block is a (poor) alternate for the media
  453. [23:24:30] <lgonze> I can see why you structured the format this way. it seems reasonably parsimonious at first look.
  454. [23:25:21] <lgonze> ok, so here's my plan --
  455. [23:25:32] <lgonze> I'm only going to do a playlist microformat
  456. [23:25:51] <deanero> hi lucas :)
  457. [23:25:56] <lgonze> it will not do anything that resembles metadata. it will just say: here are the items, here is the order.
  458. [23:26:08] <KevinMarks> well, playlist is easy, it's specifying the items that is fiddly
  459. [23:26:19] <KevinMarks> playlisy maps to <ol><li> perfectly
  460. [23:26:31] <lgonze> KevinMarks: I'm afraid it's not so perfect
  461. [23:26:39] <KevinMarks> or <ul> for a shuffled one
  462. [23:26:56] <lgonze> I have already gone down that road and found that ol/li is way too intrusive on existing markup
  463. [23:27:08] <KevinMarks> how so?
  464. [23:27:10] <lgonze> it can be done with a less intrusive method if you use tabindex instead
  465. [23:27:55] <lgonze> so let's say you have an existing page which is semantically a playlist, you can easily set up tabindex entries to specify order without having to completely rewrite your document
  466. [23:28:18] <KevinMarks> not quite sure what you mena by tabindex
  467. [23:29:10] <KevinMarks> oh, for forms?
  468. [23:29:33] <lgonze> what do we use for a pastebin in this channel?
  469. [23:29:47] <bewest> lgonze: no preference
  470. [23:29:51] <bewest> afaik
  471. [23:29:52] <KevinMarks> the wiki
  472. [23:29:54] <KevinMarks> ;)
  473. [23:29:57] <bewest> :-)
  474. [23:30:28] <lgonze> classic :)
  475. [23:30:45] <KevinMarks> hm, interesting
  476. [23:31:15] <KevinMarks> seems like it may collide with other uses
  477. [23:32:08] <lgonze> pastebin.com is hosed, but you seem to have fully vizualized it anyway. :)
  478. [23:32:42] <KevinMarks> I'd say lets follow the process and start with existing examples
  479. [23:32:55] <lgonze> the collision with other uses is fine as long as the tracks are in correct order relative to the set of playlist elements
  480. [23:33:00] <lgonze> ah, the process !
  481. [23:33:24] <KevinMarks> can you have multiple a's wiht the same tabindex to indcate alternates?
  482. [23:33:34] <lgonze> very interesting question
  483. [23:33:41] <lgonze> I checked the spec and found that was invalid.
  484. [23:33:49] <lgonze> I am sorry to say, since it would be elegant
  485. [23:34:04] <lgonze> no, you would have to use some syntax to express alternates
  486. [23:34:23] <KevinMarks> http://microformats.org/wiki/process ie make a problem statement, then make an examples page
  487. [23:34:47] <KevinMarks> formats could just link to your review and xspf
  488. [23:44:02] <lgonze> when you did the alternates m-f, did you find examples in the wild aside from the link/rel/alternate attribute value?
  489. [23:44:41] <lgonze> I also looked at the OPTION element a bit, tried to make that work, but no luck.
  490. [23:45:35] <KevinMarks> thats brainstorming, we need mroe examples, yes
  491. [23:45:54] <lgonze> the problem with "alternate" is that it's going to be hard for many people to spell or write out. it's a good choice I think, but it's good to prevent errors.
  492. [23:46:06] <KevinMarks> a select in a form element kind-of works too
  493. [23:46:11] <lgonze> yes, yes
  494. [23:46:31] <KevinMarks> but practice tends to bw multiple links
  495. [23:46:40] <KevinMarks> eg rocketboom
  496. [23:47:05] <lgonze> smil uses the language "PAR", meaning "parallel"
  497. [23:47:16] <lgonze> that RB idea is excellent
  498. [23:47:54] <lgonze> smil also uses switch/case
  499. [23:50:05] <lgonze> RB doesn't use any HTML to distinguish the alternatives
  500. [23:51:50] <lgonze> "alt" (from the img attribute) is legal
  501. [23:59:19] <KevinMarks> right, and QT Trailers often use alternatives like 'small' 'medium' large'

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