IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:31:04] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
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- [02:21:39] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [02:21:55] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [03:36:19] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [04:18:37] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [04:52:57] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-fr&diff=0&oldid=7674 * ChristopheDucamp * (+4) Implémentations -
- [05:02:08] <mfbot>
[[blog-post-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7675 * ChristopheDucamp * (-3) Entrées Individuelles -
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- [05:15:31] <jibot>
DanC_lap is DanC on his laptop.
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- [05:39:46] <mfbot>
[[blog-post-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7676 * ChristopheDucamp * (+595)
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- [05:44:49] <bretonslivka>
Mariokart DS microformat!
- [05:44:52] <bretonslivka>
http://www.merkwelt.com/people/stan/marioKartDSMicroformat.html
- [05:48:22] <vant>
hmm looks quite domain specific
- [05:49:36] <vant>
http://bulknews.typepad.com/blog/2006/05/tetris_ds_id_mi.html there's another for tetris ds..
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- [07:06:00] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [07:06:50] <bretonslivka>
tantek!
- [07:07:07] <tantek>
greetings
- [07:07:42] <bretonslivka>
Ah yes, I'm not sure you got my messages before but I looked into phpicalendar, and the templating system makes hcalendar implementation trivial
- [07:08:10] <bretonslivka>
Just in case you wanted to know ;)
- [07:08:32] <tantek>
oh very cool
- [07:08:41] <bretonslivka>
I'd do it myself if I weren't bogged down this very moment.
- [07:08:53] <bretonslivka>
It looks like a fun project actually
- [07:09:02] <tantek>
hopefully there is a chance of contributing improved default templates to the core phpicalendar code
- [07:09:20] <tantek>
so that folks that use phpicalendar automatically publish valid hCalendar
- [07:09:49] <bretonslivka>
indeed. The trick is selling something like microformats to a team that apparently thinks that table tags and *uhg* center tags are still really useful!
- [07:09:53] <bretonslivka>
inline styles..
- [07:10:07] <tantek>
yes
- [07:10:10] <bretonslivka>
all kinds xhtml sins abound in the default template
- [07:10:34] <tantek>
it is interesting how the open source programming world is a bit behind the web design world in terms of understanding of proper use of (X)HTML
- [07:11:29] <bretonslivka>
Yeah I find it a bit confounding myself
- [07:12:12] <bretonslivka>
Brilliantly complex peices of software that spit out inept xhtml, it's really wierd
- [07:12:41] <bretonslivka>
Oh well, thought you'd like the good news anyway
- [07:12:48] <bretonslivka>
it's all smarty based
- [07:12:58] <bretonslivka>
so most of the code you'd have to modify doesn't even contain php
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- [07:18:11] <jibot>
mn_francis is a web developer for Yahoo! Europe; http://cackhanded.net/ is his personal site
- [07:18:54] <mfbot>
[[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=7677 * Tantek * (+26) copy/paste bug fix, forgotten word
- [07:19:42] <tantek>
bretonslivka, that is good to know. does anyone here have any experience with smarty?
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- [07:22:27] <bretonslivka>
There's not a lot to know really. It's just xhtml with a .tpl extension.. .and wherever dynamic data goes you get something like {date}
- [07:23:47] <bretonslivka>
i have an example here http://zenpsycho.kicks-ass.net/event.tpl.txt
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- [07:27:29] <ibretonslvka>
sorry about the link.
- [07:27:31] <ibretonslvka>
doesn't work
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- [07:46:51] * Whiskey_M (n=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) has joined #microformats
- [07:47:02] <Whiskey_M>
'lo
- [07:49:00] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
- [07:49:01] <jibot>
mn_francis is a web developer for Yahoo! Europe; http://cackhanded.net/ is his personal site
- [07:49:25] <Whiskey_M>
morning francis
- [07:49:31] <mn_francis>
hola!
- [07:49:58] <Whiskey_M>
need coffee - bbiab
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- [07:53:17] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [08:00:42] <Whiskey_M>
just a quick one since I have to wander into a meeting - do either of you know if there were any thoughts about sticking an XSD behind XMDP?
- [08:03:54] <Whiskey_M>
I guess not then ;)
- [08:07:46] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
- [08:07:46] <jibot>
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
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- [08:19:24] <jibot>
boneill is Ben O'Neill, a 3rd year Software Engineering student - http://www.benedictoneill.com/
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- [08:59:44] <trovster>
http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/get-vcal.php?uri=http://www.geekinthepark.co.uk -- why won't this open in Outlook?
- [09:01:05] <Whiskey_M>
I guess you're getting this error: This error can appear if you have attempted to save a recurring Lunar appointment in iCalendar format.
- [09:01:05] <Whiskey_M>
To avoid this error, set the appointment option to Gregorian instead of Lunar.
- [09:01:05] <Whiskey_M>
More information about this error message online.
- [09:05:23] <boneill>
opens in outlook 2007 fine for me
- [09:07:07] <trovster>
Heh, someone got that yesterday, when it came out of the Technorati service!
- [09:14:09] * McNulty thinks 'nice site'
- [09:15:02] <McNulty>
trovster - you maintain that?
- [09:15:07] <trovster>
Maintain what?
- [09:15:11] <McNulty>
geekinthepark
- [09:15:29] <trovster>
Heh, yeh, it's not 'live' yet, as some things need finishing, like IE!
- [09:15:41] <McNulty>
you should probably specify a charset too
- [09:16:00] <McNulty>
I'll seeing lots of mangled chars
- [09:16:13] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ()
- [09:16:29] <trovster>
McNulty: Damn stupid Dreamweaver, not saving it correctly.
- [09:16:56] <McNulty>
it's saved as UTF-8 but because there's no encoding specified anywhere my firefox was guessing ISO8859-1
- [09:17:05] <McNulty>
If you put the headers in it'll all work fine
- [09:17:11] <trovster>
Oh, hmm, I thought it was. OK
- [09:17:55] <trovster>
$charset = 'utf-8'; header('Content-Type: '.$mime.'; charset='.$charset);
- [09:18:09] <McNulty>
Content-Type: text/html
- [09:18:14] <McNulty>
is what the server's sending
- [09:18:18] <trovster>
$mime = 'text/html';
- [09:18:22] <trovster>
Yes, I know.
- [09:18:27] <trovster>
It's HTML.. :)
- [09:18:34] <McNulty>
no charset after it, is my point ;-)
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- [09:22:47] <trovster>
what the hell, I don't need this. This is bullshit. It's there, and works on all my other sites!
- [09:23:12] <McNulty>
mod_gzip might be interfering?
- [09:23:15] * McNulty shrugs
- [09:23:44] <McNulty>
just put a meta http-equiv in and forget about it ;-)
- [09:25:05] <trovster>
no. it should be frickin' working!
- [09:25:23] <McNulty>
other sites on the same server work?
- [09:26:14] <trovster>
http://www.multipack.co.uk/ - yup
- [09:26:46] <McNulty>
oh yeah
- [09:27:29] <McNulty>
WEIRD
- [09:27:52] <trovster>
What the hell, I've just enabled XHTML, it's XHML content, but text/html content-type, the script on this page is screwed :(
- [09:29:30] <trovster>
oh oh, it's decided to be UTF8 now :D
- [09:29:37] <McNulty>
oh good
- [09:29:40] <McNulty>
what did you change
- [09:29:52] <trovster>
I enabled XHTML, then I went back to HTML...
- [09:30:11] <McNulty>
I'm still not getting that in the header
- [09:31:58] <trovster>
It's gone back now... what.the.fuck.
- [09:36:14] <trovster>
header('Content-Type: '.$mime.'; charset='.$charset); echo 'header(\'Content-Type: '.$mime.'; charset=\''.$charset.');';
- [09:37:40] <McNulty>
I would guess Apache is rewriting your headers for you somehow
- [09:38:13] <McNulty>
just put a meta in
- [09:38:55] <trovster>
meta == bad (for that)
- [09:39:14] <McNulty>
I like having the meta because it survives pages being saved etc.
- [09:39:22] <McNulty>
I set the headers as well when I can.
- [09:39:47] <trovster>
this should be setting ;@
- [09:41:05] <McNulty>
I've seen all sorts of weird quirks with FastCGI and PHP
- [09:41:27] <McNulty>
Our server at work rewrites the status code to OK no matter what you set
- [09:41:37] <McNulty>
So we have lots of pages saying HTTP/1.1 404 OK
- [09:43:17] <trovster>
Okily dokily, try now...
- [09:44:16] <McNulty>
nope
- [09:45:50] <trovster>
It is here in FF, but not in IE.
- [09:45:58] <McNulty>
?!
- [09:46:12] <McNulty>
I'm doing View Response Headers in the web developers' toolbar
- [09:46:37] <trovster>
I'm under general in FF, Encoding: UTF-8;
- [09:46:57] <McNulty>
general?
- [09:47:14] <trovster>
Page Info (click the tick!)
- [09:47:41] <McNulty>
That's just FF's guess
- [09:48:15] <McNulty>
If you change it in View->character encoding it'll change in the page info window too
- [09:48:33] <trovster>
Headers, I get some registration crap
- [09:49:07] <McNulty>
where's a good place to pastebin stuff
- [09:49:58] <trovster>
pastebin.ca ? paste.css-standards.org
- [09:50:24] * Phae (n=phae@85-210-23-226.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #microformats
- [09:50:24] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
- [09:51:14] <McNulty>
trovster - here are the headers
- [09:51:17] <McNulty>
http://paste.css-standards.org/1670
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- [09:53:05] <trovster>
grr, how can I get to see these headers
- [09:53:36] <McNulty>
get the web developers toolbar
- [09:53:40] <trovster>
I have it.
- [09:53:58] <McNulty>
Information -> View Response Headers
- [09:53:58] <trovster>
aha, got it
- [09:54:45] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@oliis.plus.com) has joined #microformats
- [09:54:45] <jibot>
drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, the author of hKit and the curator of tools.microformatic.com
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- [09:54:59] <trovster>
header('Content-Type: fuck-you'); -- not takign that all, so it seems :D
- [09:55:24] <drewinthehead>
mornin'
- [09:56:27] <McNulty>
morning drew
- [09:58:30] <McNulty>
trovster - if you change the content-type to text/plain does that work
- [09:59:16] <trovster>
negative.
- [10:00:00] <McNulty>
what level is your error reporting at? You might be accidentally outputting something before the header and the warning is being surpressed
- [10:00:07] <trovster>
utf-8 => header('Content-Type: '.$mime.'; charset='.$charset); echo $charset; -- the PHP is correct, it's being overwritten somewhere
- [10:02:10] <drewinthehead>
what's the url, trovster?
- [10:02:21] <trovster>
www.geekinthepark.co.uk
- [10:02:37] <McNulty>
trovster - there's definitely no PHP output prior to that?
- [10:02:46] <trovster>
Definitely 100%
- [10:03:01] <McNulty>
no linebreaks at the end of includes etc
- [10:04:42] * Charl (n=charlvn@net-153-111.mweb.co.za) has joined #microformats
- [10:04:42] <jibot>
Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
- [10:08:09] <trovster>
McNulty: Try now/
- [10:08:17] * McNulty crosses his fingers
- [10:08:30] <McNulty>
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
- [10:08:32] <McNulty>
ace
- [10:08:34] <McNulty>
what changed?
- [10:08:46] <McNulty>
the chars on the page have fixed themselves too
- [10:08:58] <trovster>
function mark_up($n) { -- does this look familiar to anyone?
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- [10:10:26] <McNulty>
nnope
- [10:10:55] * trovster looks at drewinthehead
- [10:11:11] <McNulty>
what was breaking your headers?
- [10:11:29] <trovster>
Yes, after that it had header,text/html
- [10:11:52] <McNulty>
mark_up has some echos in then
- [10:12:04] <drewinthehead>
trovster: ?
- [10:13:14] <drewinthehead>
ah, right yes ... i set content types
- [10:13:33] * trovster bills drewinthehead for 1 hours work
- [10:13:35] <drewinthehead>
but you're the one running it .. you need to know and take responsibility for what you're running :)
- [10:13:58] * drewinthehead bills trovster for 12 hours development work
- [10:14:13] * trovster bills drewinthehead
- [10:20:48] <Phae>
heh
- [10:21:04] <Whiskey_M>
busy on here today :-)
- [10:21:46] <trovster>
It's only been me banging my head about a content-type!
- [10:22:04] <Phae>
Your header all error free now?
- [10:22:23] <McNulty>
trovster - header($whatever, true);
- [10:22:43] <McNulty>
*should* replace existing headers
- [10:23:04] <McNulty>
may depend on your version though
- [10:27:16] <trovster>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> -- added that now too
- [10:28:09] <McNulty>
course it'd be a non-issue if you entity-ized the funny chars in the text!
- [10:28:32] <drewinthehead>
shouldn't need to .. utf-8 is awesome
- [10:28:37] <trovster>
Exactly.
- [10:28:45] <McNulty>
fair enough.
- [10:29:02] <trovster>
All that I've got left to do is... loads :(
- [10:41:22] <Whiskey_M>
whilst there are people alive on here - anyone have any thoughts about the XMDP / XSD stuff I've been playing with?
- [10:44:17] <drewinthehead>
what's your goal with it Whiskey_M?
- [10:45:50] <Whiskey_M>
Kinda here: http://microformats.org/wiki/xmdp-brainstorming#Follow_up
- [10:46:50] <Whiskey_M>
basically a little work which people implementing microformats will never need to know about, but would be a bridging layer between microformats and other definitions
- [10:54:33] <Whiskey_M>
I guess it's a naff idea then :-S
- [10:54:47] <McNulty>
What's the problem that it solves?
- [10:55:04] <McNulty>
It's an interesting idea, I'd worry it was a little academic
- [10:55:18] <Whiskey_M>
at the present time microformats are not easily machine readable - this would make them easy for machines to read
- [10:55:43] <McNulty>
you mean unfamiliar microformats right
- [10:55:49] <Whiskey_M>
yup
- [10:56:06] <McNulty>
what is my parser going to do with an unfamiliar microformat?
- [10:56:45] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
- [10:56:46] <jibot>
ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
- [10:58:03] <Whiskey_M>
at present (I may have this wrong - sorry), for each familiar microformat your parser needs to understand what's in there and how to parse it from the HTML?
- [10:59:16] <drewinthehead>
that's right
- [10:59:36] <drewinthehead>
it needs to know what to look for
- [10:59:46] <Whiskey_M>
what I'm suggesting is that even unfamiliar microformats can be parsed from HTML without having to rewrite the parser for the specific microformat
- [11:01:16] <Whiskey_M>
what is then done with them is then upto the author of the microformat -- perhaps link to a remote XSL for accessible browsing, perhaps link to a resource that can then turn the microformat into an RDF or OWL datasource.
- [11:01:39] <Whiskey_M>
perhaps do a stylesheet to allow them to be viewed nicely in tails
- [11:02:18] <Whiskey_M>
the author of the HTML page need not know / care about the technical gubbins as long as they produce the microformat correctly
- [11:03:05] <McNulty>
hm
- [11:03:50] <Whiskey_M>
sorry, I've got to run to what will be a boring meeting where I'd rather poke at my eyes with a sharp pencil :(
- [11:04:30] <drewinthehead>
Whiskey_M, I'd be interested to see how all the processing rules could be expressed in a machine readable format
- [11:04:48] * chucker_ (n=chucker@p5489F709.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
- [11:05:57] <Whiskey_M>
XSD can provide the data format and nesting (geo, lat, long) - I'd propose a microformat namespace that is able to provide parsing hints for html (there seem only to be about a dozen rules), XSD allows custom attributes to be bound to xsd elements
- [11:13:41] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489F155.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [11:18:17] * dc__ (n=dctanner@bb-87-81-165-34.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
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- [12:09:37] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable153.95-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
- [12:09:37] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [12:14:41] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
- [12:18:54] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@oliis.plus.com) Quit ()
- [12:24:41] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
- [12:24:42] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
- [12:24:44] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
- [12:32:41] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) Quit ("Free at last!")
- [12:35:27] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@oliis.plus.com) has joined #microformats
- [12:35:28] <jibot>
drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, the author of hKit and the curator of tools.microformatic.com
- [12:45:57] * paolo (n=paolo@tor/session/external/x-33de39e9080e0b4f) has joined #microformats
- [13:01:41] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [13:01:42] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [13:09:27] * Charl (n=charlvn@net-153-111.mweb.co.za) Quit ()
- [13:09:30] <dglazkov>
http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/?p=290
- [13:10:20] <trovster>
Think I saw that yesterday, :S
- [13:11:07] <McNulty>
missing the point somewhat isn't it?
- [13:11:28] <McNulty>
I mean... screen scraping isn't a problem with microformats, it's part of the point isn't it?
- [13:11:53] * ajturner (n=irc@s233-64-126-217.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
- [13:12:48] <trovster>
Yeh, kinda.
- [13:13:50] <McNulty>
OMFG my data's going to be machine readable!
- [13:26:26] <mfbot>
[[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=7678 * ChrisCasciano * (+1283) 'MAY have multiple Feed elements' -- details and viability of multiple feeds -
- [13:28:13] <pnhChris>
so someones worried about content appearing elsewhere.. but they're content is CC'd, has 30 buttons to push their content elsewhere, has 3 different feeds available... etc. etc :P
- [13:28:45] <pnhChris>
(yeah.. i know that's got nothing to do with the arguments basis.. just find in humorous)
- [13:32:53] <mfbot>
[[Help:Contents]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Help:Contents&diff=0&oldid=7679 * ChristopheDucamp * (+160)
- [13:37:14] <trovster>
woah, technorati has changed!!
- [13:39:00] <pnhChris>
indeed!
- [13:39:08] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [13:39:09] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [13:39:41] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [13:39:52] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [13:39:55] <pnhChris>
feels a bit busy
- [13:40:06] <trovster>
Feels Web2.0 ;)
- [13:40:14] <mn_francis>
can't be
- [13:40:17] <mn_francis>
no rounded corners
- [13:40:30] <pnhChris>
theres rounded corners
- [13:40:33] <pnhChris>
just not enough
- [13:40:34] <pnhChris>
:P
- [13:40:39] <mn_francis>
they're too small
- [13:40:43] <mn_francis>
don't count :D
- [13:41:02] <pnhChris>
http://technorati.com/faves/placenamehere
- [13:41:08] <qid>
you also need pastel colors and giant fonts
- [13:41:09] <pnhChris>
the one around my id isn't too small
- [13:41:12] <trovster>
Also, shades
- [13:41:27] <pnhChris>
i just think the sidebar is kinda.. i dunno.. busy
- [13:41:37] * pnhChris shrugs
- [13:41:51] <dglazkov>
it's yahoo!
- [13:42:36] <mn_francis>
oops, found a bug already
- [13:42:52] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #microformats
- [13:43:04] * pnhChris needs more links for more blogs
- [13:43:24] * pnhChris should post some silly rant about something silly and meaningless just to be a link ho
- [13:43:33] <pnhChris>
:P
- [13:45:09] * pnhChris starts drafting "microformats suck" post
- [13:46:05] <dglazkov>
you need an easier target. Like Dvorak's CSS sucks post
- [13:46:15] * dglazkov suggests "Internet Sucks" post
- [13:46:20] <trovster>
Lies.
- [13:46:40] * chucker_ (n=chucker@p5489F709.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #microformats
- [13:46:44] <trovster>
Total lies. The internet can't suck. I just ordered a Aerobie, with free deliver! You can't beat that!
- [13:46:54] <pnhChris>
css does suck.. see!!!! :) http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/examples/toomanycooks_dvorakspecial.html
- [13:47:28] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [13:47:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
- [13:47:29] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
- [13:50:15] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
- [13:51:12] <pnhChris>
i should do an OS X sucks
- [13:51:32] <pnhChris>
i KNOW that'll get em coming out of the woodwork linking to me
- [13:51:39] <trovster>
hehe
- [13:53:46] <pnhChris>
speaking of evil.. (and totally OT) http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BRF_FALLING_MIRROR?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-07-23-18-50-40
- [14:02:06] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has left #microformats
- [14:08:35] <mfbot>
[[recipe-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=7680 * DrewMcLellan * (+225) Perfect Flank Steak -
- [14:08:56] <drewinthehead>
gotta love those example recipes
- [14:09:12] * drewinthehead has no idea what a flank steak is
- [14:10:16] <pnhChris>
nice link name there :P
- [14:11:29] <pnhChris>
see this one yet? *looks for link*
- [14:11:47] <pnhChris>
http://flickr.com/photos/ioerror/196450968/
- [14:13:40] <drewinthehead>
haha
- [14:15:06] <mfbot>
[[currency-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7681 * ChristopheDucamp * (+4399)
- [14:19:00] * tantek_ (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
- [14:20:20] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [14:20:43] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
- [14:20:43] <jibot>
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
- [14:20:54] * paolo (n=paolo@tor/session/external/x-33de39e9080e0b4f) Quit ("No one will drive us from the paradise that Cantor has created. (D.Hilbert)")
- [14:36:22] <drewinthehead>
the HP ad on technorati.com at the moment is hopeless ... you can't click through on it.
- [14:39:01] <drewinthehead>
catch a geek's attention with a sexy looking laptop, and then don't let him click through to find out more. (and i almost *never* click on ads)
- [14:39:48] <mfbot>
[[blog-post-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7682 * ChristopheDucamp * (+251) Entrée Contenu -
- [14:39:52] * drewinthehead hopes technorati are being paid CPM on that one ;)
- [14:40:14] <McNulty>
hp AD?
- [14:40:37] * McNulty can't see any ads
- [14:41:12] <McNulty>
oh got it
- [14:41:16] <McNulty>
Wow that's irritating
- [14:42:09] <mfbot>
[[blog-post-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=7683 * ChristopheDucamp * (+6) Entré Permaliens - typo
- [14:42:52] <drewinthehead>
looking at it again (and actually reading the ad) it would seem that it's entirely intentional.
- [14:43:27] <trovster>
Getting unstyled and JS errors in IE!
- [14:43:42] <trovster>
I don't see the ad. I want to see the ad!
- [14:43:43] <drewinthehead>
i'm now too irritated by it to bother to go search for whatever model it might be
- [14:45:42] <McNulty>
maybe they've realised that clickthroughs aren't the be all and end all
- [14:46:59] <drewinthehead>
yes, they've moved on to pissing people off through not letting them find out more about sexy looking laptops.
- [14:47:06] <drewinthehead>
:P
- [14:47:23] <trovster>
HP sell Macs now?
- [14:47:55] <mfbot>
[[blog-post-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7684 * ChristopheDucamp * (+198) Entrée Permalink -
- [14:50:49] <McNulty>
they sell iPods...
- [14:51:29] <drewinthehead>
sorry .. dragged the conversation off-topic ;)
- [14:53:56] <mfbot>
[[blog-post-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7685 * ChristopheDucamp * (+167) Entrée Datetimes - Création et Modified -
- [14:55:17] <mfbot>
[[blog-post-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7686 * ChristopheDucamp * (+12) Entrée Auteur -
- [14:56:12] <Whiskey_M>
off topic is more interesting ;)
- [14:57:20] * Whiskey_M loves listening to local gov bods talking about things they have not the vaguest idea about, deciding to change sites which they have no ownership of and having to sit through it all
- [15:02:55] * briansud1 (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [15:02:55] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [15:04:19] <mfbot>
[[xfolk]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk&diff=0&oldid=7687 * Mattsches * (+224) Implementations -
- [15:06:40] <mfbot>
[[blog-post-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7688 * ChristopheDucamp * (+385) Atom Possible vers mapping microformat(s) -
- [15:07:34] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
- [15:08:02] * DanC_lap (n=connolly@64-126-89-30-dhcp-kc.everestkc.net) has joined #microformats
- [15:08:02] <jibot>
DanC_lap is DanC on his laptop.
- [15:09:12] <pnhChris>
really? and all this time I thought DanC's lap had some brain of its own
- [15:10:57] <drewinthehead>
and there was me thinking it was a rabbit, but of course that would've been DanC_lop
- [15:12:13] <trovster>
And I thought it was DanC_lob .. actually, I won't go there.
- [15:12:31] <mfbot>
[[blog-post-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7689 * ChristopheDucamp * (+227) Possible Uses -
- [15:12:47] <drewinthehead>
have we drained the last ounce of available humour yet? :)
- [15:14:04] <Whiskey_M>
I am sure there could be more
- [15:14:10] <drewinthehead>
i saw a presentation by Mark Shuttleworth yesterday about the biggest problems facing open source
- [15:15:15] <McNulty>
was one of them 'bad puns?'
- [15:15:16] <drewinthehead>
one of the biggies was about communication between projects and how everyone has their own bugbase, so bugs for e.g. Firefox might get logged with Mozilla, with Ubuntu, with Fedora and so on
- [15:16:04] <drewinthehead>
and there's no way to search them all or keep track
- [15:17:54] <drewinthehead>
so i was chatting about this with simon willison over lunch, about whether there might be a call for a microformat for bugs
- [15:18:14] <drewinthehead>
simon had ideas about how the existing Atom spec might fit the problem more closely
- [15:18:49] <drewinthehead>
i don't know atom too well
- [15:19:32] <mfbot>
[[blog-post-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=blog-post-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7690 * ChristopheDucamp * (+179) Obstacles -
- [15:19:38] <McNulty>
I suppose bug reports have subjects, authors, content and relevant tags
- [15:19:45] <McNulty>
and then tend to have a comment thread
- [15:19:50] <Whiskey_M>
surely the problem with community led bug reporting is the different descriptions of a bug? Even on small projects we might get the same bug reported several times which is the same bug, just reported in a completely different manner
- [15:20:22] <drewinthehead>
i think the primary problem was just aggregating data .. knowing that a bug, any bug, had been reported
- [15:20:41] <Whiskey_M>
that is another problem I guess
- [15:21:14] <drewinthehead>
the different descriptions problem isn't going to go away any time soon :)
- [15:22:06] <drewinthehead>
usually it takes knowledge of the code to be able to identify different facets of the same bug
- [15:22:39] <drewinthehead>
i'm not sure if it's worth collecting together some examples from the wild
- [15:24:38] <drewinthehead>
on the whole, i think post bugs are published through a small number of bug database products .. and if they were going to make changes for the benefit of interoperability then it might make more sense for them to do that through something like atom
- [15:26:31] <drewinthehead>
i.e. it's a problem you could solve with a microformat, but i'm not totally convinced it's the best way to solve it
- [15:27:06] <McNulty>
what's a sensible way of marking up an FAQ page? DL?
- [15:27:31] <Whiskey_M>
would make sense
- [15:27:41] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
- [15:27:44] <trovster>
Totally a DL.
- [15:28:08] <mfbot>
[[hatom-issues-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+63922)
- [15:28:56] <McNulty>
is an answer a definition for a question then? ;-)
- [15:29:04] <mfbot>
[[to-do-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do-fr&diff=0&oldid=7691 * ChristopheDucamp * (+60) hResume -
- [15:29:08] <drewinthehead>
i'm always nervous with DLs
- [15:29:11] <trovster>
Answer is the definition for a question, yes.
- [15:29:20] <mfbot>
[[to-do-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do-fr&diff=0&oldid=7692 * ChristopheDucamp * (-60) hResume -
- [15:29:42] <Whiskey_M>
It's very easy to over use a dl, but in this instance it makes sense
- [15:30:01] <trovster>
I use DL for forms...
- [15:30:05] <drewinthehead>
i'm not convinced (although i have used DL for FAQs myself)
- [15:30:09] * trovster has opened a can of whoop-ass
- [15:30:18] * DanC (n=connolly@64-126-89-30-dhcp-kc.everestkc.net) has joined #microformats
- [15:30:18] <jibot>
DanC is Dan Connolly http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
- [15:30:28] <Whiskey_M>
hmmm, forms? interesting....
- [15:30:48] <McNulty>
hm
- [15:30:48] * drewinthehead uses tables for forms in the name of 'interactive tabular data'
- [15:30:57] <trovster>
drewinthehead: eeew
- [15:31:07] <trovster>
Whiskey_M: re: http://www.geekinthepark.co.uk/#comments-form
- [15:31:14] <drewinthehead>
but only when it is tabular
- [15:31:14] * McNulty uses tables
- [15:31:34] <McNulty>
if it's a column of headings and a column of values that's a 1-dimensional table surely
- [15:31:45] <McNulty>
I haven't checked if that's terrible from a screen reader perspective
- [15:32:02] <drewinthehead>
DL is for terms and their definitions
- [15:32:26] <drewinthehead>
i'm not happy that an answer is a 'definition' of a question
- [15:32:54] <trovster>
What about quoting the specs about conversation?
- [15:33:11] <trovster>
Also, if it's just definition/description, then it shouldn't be in the spec as it's far to restrictive.
- [15:33:15] <drewinthehead>
that example is widely accepted as a poor one :)
- [15:33:22] <Whiskey_M>
drew, can you think of another element that would convey they same semantic relevence?
- [15:33:23] <McNulty>
it's very easy to use DL as a generic 'pairs of stuff' list but I'm not convinced that's completely correct
- [15:33:36] <mfbot>
[[hatom-faq-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-faq-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+738)
- [15:33:42] <drewinthehead>
how about just a regular list with headings?
- [15:33:53] <trovster>
Well, I disagree. If there is a pair, then, IMO a DL works. What else would you use?
- [15:34:18] <trovster>
No, as you'd have one heading, then one item (most key+pair value)
- [15:34:36] <McNulty>
the example of the DL being used for marking up conversation is explicitly mentioned in the spec
- [15:34:38] <Whiskey_M>
Headings would probably work out better with SEO (dependent on the questions), but wouldn't have the same relevance IMHO
- [15:34:44] * Phae (n=phae@85-210-23-226.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #microformats
- [15:34:44] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
- [15:35:26] <drewinthehead>
the example is the spec is poor.
- [15:35:43] <mfbot>
[[to-do-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do-fr&diff=0&oldid=7693 * ChristopheDucamp * (+81)
- [15:35:57] <drewinthehead>
DLs shouldn't be used for marking up conversation
- [15:36:04] <McNulty>
it's been heartily embraced by the microformats community though surely
- [15:36:25] <McNulty>
Tantek had a great example in one of his presentations using CITE/Blockquote with DL didn't he?
- [15:36:30] <McNulty>
Or am I misremembering
- [15:36:52] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit ("Leaving")
- [15:37:00] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
- [15:37:02] * tantek_ scrolls up
- [15:37:30] <drewinthehead>
the spec says "Definition lists vary only slightly from other types of lists in that list items consist of two parts: a term and a description."
- [15:37:36] <mn_francis>
yes, he did
- [15:37:43] <mn_francis>
from Web Essentials last year
- [15:37:49] <mn_francis>
Elements of Semantics or something like that
- [15:37:54] <drewinthehead>
you can't take the two-parts bit without accepting the term and description bit
- [15:37:59] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [15:38:35] <McNulty>
I think strictly that's true but the common use case seems to be for 'lists of pairs of stuff'
- [15:38:59] <trovster>
That's what I use it for.
- [15:39:09] <drewinthehead>
people commonly do all sorts of odd things.
- [15:39:17] <mn_francis>
doesn't make it right
- [15:39:28] <tantek_>
1. ouch on the HP ad - please join #technorati to give feedback on new technorati.com home page
- [15:39:46] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has left #microformats
- [15:39:47] <Phae>
Surely the clue is in the name? A list of items with definitions?
- [15:39:50] <tantek_>
2. bug reports can be posted *anywhere* using hReview and simply tagging your hReview with "bugreport"
- [15:40:29] <tantek_>
3. No I did not use DL to mark up a conversation. I showed first the *wrong way* with DL purely for illustration, then the right way with <ol> <li> <cite> and <blockquote>
- [15:40:34] <mn_francis>
tagging an hreview ... nice
- [15:40:35] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
- [15:40:35] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [15:40:45] <McNulty>
aaah, I did misremember then - thanks!
- [15:40:54] <drewinthehead>
hReview.. the swiss army knife microformat ;)
- [15:40:59] <tantek>
a bug report is just a special hReview mn_francis, that's the point
- [15:41:10] <mn_francis>
I know, I just love it :)
- [15:41:19] <McNulty>
presumably it's a negative review.
- [15:41:36] <Whiskey_M>
depends whether it's a bug, or an unexpected "feature"
- [15:41:46] <tantek>
g2g, bbiab
- [15:42:17] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [15:46:54] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
- [15:47:17] <drewinthehead>
i'll have to study the hReview spec closer .. i'm not entirely convinced the common semantics of a bug report can be captured in a review
- [15:47:58] <mn_francis>
maybe there's a difference between a full-on bugzilla style bug report and just "hey, I noticed that the HP ad doesn't work on the new technorati homepage"
- [15:47:58] <mn_francis>
?
- [15:48:06] <drewinthehead>
datapoints like expected behaviour and behaviour experienced are common amongst nearly all bug tools that i've researched
- [15:48:47] <drewinthehead>
yes, there's a difference, but possibly only in the maturity of the report
- [15:49:08] <mn_francis>
mmm, true
- [15:49:10] <drewinthehead>
lots of bug reports start off simple but over time get fleshed out to be useful
- [15:49:23] <mn_francis>
but maybe that's all Tantek wants for technorati :D
- [15:49:32] <drewinthehead>
:P
- [15:52:26] <mn_francis>
And to go back in time for a brief moment, I want a t-shirt that says "My other t-shirt is a definition list."
- [15:53:13] <McNulty>
A job just landed on my desk that involves basically huge lists of contact info
- [15:53:27] <McNulty>
I suppose I get an excuse to use all this microformats stuff
- [15:53:27] <Phae>
heh
- [15:53:49] <Whiskey_M>
lol - good for something then ;)
- [15:54:45] <Whiskey_M>
Mc, I got a hm earlier on the xsd stuff - any further thoughts?
- [15:55:33] <McNulty>
Whiskey_M - not yet. It's an interesting idea but like I said I can't really see what current problem it solves
- [15:55:35] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
- [15:55:44] <McNulty>
but who am I to say :-)
- [15:56:16] <Whiskey_M>
to be able to read any microformat by machine without having to write a specific parser
- [15:57:57] <drewinthehead>
... and a pony.
- [15:58:05] <McNulty>
OK so say I've never heard of hCard, and I'm looking at a page that has it embedded. What are you intending to do?
- [15:58:17] <McNulty>
My parser looks at the profile...
- [15:59:55] <McNulty>
It learns all kinds of stuff about the microformat
- [16:00:04] <Whiskey_M>
probably much the same, look for the XMDP document, see if it has an XSD reference then parse the XHTML based upon the XSD into a netural XML format - there after bob's your uncle and XSL is your aunt
- [16:00:12] <McNulty>
but then still at the end of the day, it has to know what an hCard is to do anything useful surely.
- [16:00:25] <McNulty>
But I can just XSL the XHTML can't I?
- [16:01:29] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
- [16:01:29] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [16:01:43] <Whiskey_M>
As an example, geo can be either nested long and lat, or can use title to have long and lat with a semi-colon. Without a human reading the spec and knowing that's the case how does a parse engine know?
- [16:02:01] <McNulty>
okay but what is the parse engine going to do with that knowledge?
- [16:02:09] <McNulty>
That's the leap that I'm not getting
- [16:02:28] <drewinthehead>
and those are the easy rules ...
- [16:02:40] <Whiskey_M>
what do you want it to do?
- [16:02:49] <McNulty>
Hey this is your idea ;-)
- [16:03:27] <drewinthehead>
from my change notes of stuff added to hkit recently: The new fn=n optimisation says that if n isn’t specified and n cannot be implied from fn, then fn can be assumed to be equal to “fn n” and fn may therefore contain n’s sub-items.
- [16:03:32] <drewinthehead>
that was a fun one
- [16:03:57] * DanC wonders about moving office hours from Wed to Thu this week; briansud1 ? (ryan doesn't seem to be around)
- [16:03:58] * briansud1 nods
- [16:03:59] <McNulty>
Like, my parser's figured out the syntax of geo, but it still won't have a clue of the semantics or what it can do with them
- [16:04:13] <briansud1>
ryan isn't around, not sure where he is....
- [16:04:34] <Whiskey_M>
To get an app to be able to do something useful you need to know what you're dealing with - I understand that one. But if you can write one parse engine for every microformat surely that's got to make life easer?
- [16:04:36] <briansud1>
DanC, i;m WAY behind on MF stuff too, this is day #5 without power in my city
- [16:04:54] <DanC>
?!
- [16:05:08] <McNulty>
Whiskey_M - doesn't the fact they're in XHTML mean they're already in a format we can parse pretty easily?
- [16:05:13] <DanC>
whois briansud1
- [16:05:41] <briansud1>
briansud1 is briansuda... there is a lock on that at the moment
- [16:06:14] <Whiskey_M>
only if you know what's in there. Take the hCard example where: <a class="fn url" href="...">name</a> how do you know that fn refers to the element text and url the href?
- [16:07:00] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [16:08:56] <McNulty>
so you're talking about transforming it into <fn>name</fn><url>...</url> in some standard schema
- [16:09:20] <McNulty>
but then to do anything useful you have to know what the hCard fields mean, so you could have just XSL'ed the XHTML ;-)
- [16:09:48] <McNulty>
I can see what you're getting at, but I dunno if it would make any of the common services people are running at the moment easier?
- [16:12:53] <Whiskey_M>
I guess the thing is that with a schema defined for the microformat to get information from the page devs can stop worrying about how the mf is formatted, and start dealing with the raw data instead.
- [16:13:05] <dglazkov>
Whiskey_M: are you looking for general, auto-discovering, self-learning microformats parser?
- [16:14:20] <Whiskey_M>
dg, if we drop the auto-learning, because I can't see how a parser will ever understand what it's got then yes. Although not looking, considering the potential of adding an extra step behind xmdp to allow this to happen
- [16:14:47] <Whiskey_M>
or to see if anyone is interested in adding that extra step then offering my time to help ;)
- [16:14:55] <dglazkov>
what's the benefit of such a parser?
- [16:15:02] <dglazkov>
and who benefits?
- [16:15:25] <Whiskey_M>
what is the benefit of any semantisism?
- [16:15:53] <Whiskey_M>
sorry
- [16:16:23] <dglazkov>
there's no benefit in any semanticism :) I think I am getting straight to this point :)
- [16:16:34] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
- [16:17:16] <dglazkov>
microformats parser has to understand _specific_ formats (hCard, for instance).
- [16:17:21] <dglazkov>
not _any_ formats
- [16:17:37] <Whiskey_M>
why? Only if you want to render it
- [16:17:49] * imajes (n=imajes@cpc2-ware3-0-0-cust617.lutn.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
- [16:19:12] <Whiskey_M>
if there were a machine readable ruleset behind each microformat then any microformat could be read from a page. Interject that with say an author or a volunteer providing xsl to turn that mf into RDF or perhaps an accessible version of the content everyone wins out
- [16:20:13] <McNulty>
why doesn't the volunteer write an XSL taht transforms the XHTML...
- [16:21:16] <Whiskey_M>
that they could do
- [16:22:38] <Whiskey_M>
they would have to know for each mf where in the XHTML the data is located, where it might be for different options etc. though
- [16:23:42] <McNulty>
And you want to abstract that process out into a standardised XHTML->XML parser
- [16:23:56] <McNulty>
so then I can write something that spits out vCard, WML, whatever
- [16:24:11] <Whiskey_M>
pretty much
- [16:24:39] <McNulty>
so it's the little rules like sometimes using @title from an ABBR that you'd be capturing
- [16:24:57] <Whiskey_M>
yup
- [16:25:35] <McNulty>
aah ok I see where you're coming from now
- [16:25:40] <McNulty>
yeah go for it
- [16:25:41] <McNulty>
:-)
- [16:25:43] <Whiskey_M>
bring the XHTML which has the HTML render logic in there to a "pure" XML data stream ready for re-render to any other format
- [16:26:05] <McNulty>
So you'd be picking out the specific bits that are part of the microformat
- [16:26:09] <McNulty>
and ditching the rest
- [16:26:21] <Whiskey_M>
Trying to as best as possible
- [16:26:36] <McNulty>
normalising it
- [16:27:13] <Whiskey_M>
well putting together schema logic no a method of normalisation is possible without having in-depth knowledge of the mf
- [16:28:01] <Whiskey_M>
sorry, that didn't make sense in the slightest ;)
- [16:28:45] <McNulty>
With some knowledge of the structure of the microformat, you could take an XHTML document and take out all the semantics that aren't part of the microformat
- [16:28:53] <Whiskey_M>
I'm initially interested in putting together a schema format where the mf format can be described, so a parse engine can be written from that
- [16:29:00] <McNulty>
right
- [16:29:10] <McNulty>
so a parser can say 'this is part of the mF, that is not'
- [16:29:20] <Whiskey_M>
as an idea yes
- [16:29:35] <Whiskey_M>
here is the data, there was the rest of the document
- [16:29:41] <McNulty>
and get to auto-generate intermediate step documents to take care of th first step of mF parsing
- [16:29:49] <Whiskey_M>
what the data then is isn't initially so important
- [16:30:24] <Whiskey_M>
I think so, although that could be read two ways ;)
- [16:30:53] <McNulty>
I can certainly see how, if I wanted to write a parser to transform an mF into some other format having the first half of the process being done for me and just having to transform an intermediate document into my target format would be handy
- [16:31:12] <Whiskey_M>
You've got me in one
- [16:31:26] <McNulty>
interesting idea.
- [16:33:02] <McNulty>
and your first step is coming up with a way of formally specifying microformat semantics
- [16:35:19] <McNulty>
I guess that would enable simpler validation etc.
- [16:35:21] <Whiskey_M>
I don't know whether it is of interest or not, but if you have a reference for normalising microformats it would be a logical place to put re-render links... i.e. putting a descriptor behind XFN (and sorry I haven't played so I'm probably wrong again), that can auto parse to foaf: -- 1 hours worth of work for someone a mf, everyone with xfn gets foaf cross over
- [16:37:15] <Whiskey_M>
yup, that is the first step
- [16:39:02] <Whiskey_M>
there may be some potiential benefits to internationalisation yet, but I'm still new at microformats and haven't read the wiki properly there
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- [16:40:55] <McNulty>
hm, home time for me
- [16:41:21] <McNulty>
Whiskey_M - interesting stuff, I'll look forward to seeing how/if it progresses ;-)
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- [16:43:01] <mfbot>
[[xfolk-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-fr&diff=0&oldid=7694 * ChristopheDucamp * (+142) Dans la jungle - add serendipity
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[[hatom-hints-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-hints-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+5491)
- [16:59:33] <mfbot>
[[Template:out-of-date-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:out-of-date-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+174)
- [17:00:24] <mfbot>
[[hatom-hints-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-hints-fr&diff=0&oldid=7695 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3) {{out-of-date-fr}}
- [17:00:40] <mfbot>
[[hatom-hints-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-hints-fr&diff=0&oldid=7696 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) Nomenclature -
- [17:01:11] <mfbot>
[[hatom-hints-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-hints-fr&diff=0&oldid=7697 * ChristopheDucamp * (+9) Nomenclature -
- [17:01:32] <mfbot>
[[hatom-hints-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-hints-fr&diff=0&oldid=7698 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) Trucs hAtom -
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[[book-examples-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/book-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1231)
- [17:10:22] <lgonze>
http://gonze.com/weblog/story/7-23-6
- [17:10:49] <mfbot>
[[citation-examples-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+11316)
- [17:14:15] <mfbot>
[[book-formats-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/book-formats-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+512)
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[[book-brainstorming-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/book-brainstorming-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+9603)
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- [17:25:12] * DanC scrolls up, notes discussion of using XSLT to extract RDF form microformats
- [17:25:21] <DanC>
the GRDDL WG is starting up to do just that, FYI
- [17:26:03] <mfbot>
[[book-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7699 * ChristopheDucamp * (+282) Contexte -
- [17:26:44] <mfbot>
[[book-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7700 * ChristopheDucamp * (+10) Other features of a book -
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- [17:29:48] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
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- [17:30:35] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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[[book-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7701 * ChristopheDucamp * (+171) Sections d'un livre -
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[[to-do-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do-fr&diff=0&oldid=7702 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3587)
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- [17:44:09] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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[[wiki-formats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=wiki-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=7703 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) Résumé -
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- [17:56:52] <tantek>
greetings
- [17:57:29] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
- [17:57:29] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [18:42:23] <jibot>
drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, the author of hKit and the curator of tools.microformatic.com
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[[hreview-creator-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7704 * RyanKing * (+76) added notes about linking to mail archives
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[[hcard-creator-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7705 * RyanKing * (+25) note about mail archives
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- [20:00:25] <jibot>
bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
- [20:15:58] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
- [20:15:58] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [20:31:30] * bewest wonders if Hixie is around
- [20:31:55] * bewest wishes Hixie would publish a non-svg version of the web authoring report
- [20:32:19] <bewest>
there's several people I'd like to show the report to, but they don't have svg viewers
- [20:45:44] <tantek>
pngs would be nice
- [20:53:22] <pnhChris>
tantek: see my summary /draft of hatom multiple feed issues.. does that jive with where you thought we left things?
- [20:54:08] <pnhChris>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues#.27MAY_have_multiple_Feed_elements.27_--_details_and_viability_of_multiple_feeds
- [20:54:46] <pnhChris>
.. or anyone else...
- [20:56:54] <_fil_>
holidays!
- [20:56:57] * _fil_ (n=fil@www.rezo.net) has left #microformats
- [20:57:32] <pnhChris>
i wish!
- [20:57:49] * pnhChris stares at notebook full of tasks
- [20:58:16] <drewinthehead>
holidays are for wimps.
- [20:58:19] <Phae>
:<
- [20:58:22] * Phae is on holiday.
- [20:58:35] * drewinthehead is bitter about not being able to go on holiday
- [20:58:43] <Phae>
This is my first proper break this year.
- [20:58:46] <drewinthehead>
Phae is a wimp, but a nice one.
- [20:58:48] <Phae>
hehe
- [21:00:13] <drewinthehead>
actually, i went to sxsw in March, so that counts as recently-holidayed
- [21:00:24] <Phae>
oh cool
- [21:00:30] <Phae>
I've had the odd day here and there.
- [21:00:56] * kingryan just got back from a few days of holiday
- [21:01:09] <Phae>
I have a few days next month too, for the eden sessions.
- [21:01:11] <drewinthehead>
ah, we thought you were quiet, kingryan ;)
- [21:01:41] <kingryan>
yeah, that's what happens when I'm not connected to the interweb
- [21:02:12] <drewinthehead>
is that at the Eden Project, Phae?
- [21:02:17] <Phae>
It is indeed.
- [21:04:03] <drewinthehead>
i found myself browsing a gig list today and wishing it was hCalendared
- [21:04:10] <Phae>
heh
- [21:04:58] <drewinthehead>
when this is pervasive life will be better.
- [21:05:07] <drewinthehead>
and i'll not miss so many gigs.
- [21:05:24] <Phae>
I haven't been to a gig for ages. Used to be what I did in my free time when I was still at University.
- [21:13:52] <drewinthehead>
matt biddulph did an interesting mashup of (i think) gig listings and last.fm logs to give a personalised list of gigs you might like to attend
- [21:14:28] <Phae>
oh, that sounds cool.
- [21:14:35] <Phae>
I assume it takes note of location.
- [21:15:53] <drewinthehead>
i'm trying to find it again ... wondering where the gig data comes from and if it's scraped
- [21:16:26] <Phae>
Dunno. I need to update my last.fm plugin anyway. They just upgraded apparently, but I hear the software is bloaty.
- [21:16:54] <kingryan>
have you guys seen sonicliving.com ?
- [21:17:04] <Hixie>
bewest: why don't they have SVG viewers? Firefox is available on all platforms.
- [21:17:19] <kingryan>
it scrapes a bunch of ticket-buying sites and also has an app that uploads the artists from your iTunes library
- [21:17:32] * kingryan just remembered that sonicliving is still in private beta, whoops
- [21:17:38] <Phae>
oh, I don't use iTunes.
- [21:17:44] <drewinthehead>
ah, sounds like a similar idea, kingryan
- [21:18:15] <kingryan>
well, Phae, that part isn't neccessary
- [21:18:23] <Phae>
Oh.
- [21:18:23] <kingryan>
you can add bands to your watchlist via the site
- [21:18:34] <Phae>
Not so automated goodness though.
- [21:18:39] <kingryan>
right
- [21:18:50] <kingryan>
they should add last.fm support
- [21:18:55] <Phae>
Yeah, definitely.
- [21:19:02] <drewinthehead>
what's life without automated goodness?
- [21:19:05] <kingryan>
and get out of private beta
- [21:19:14] <Phae>
Not so good?
- [21:19:14] <kingryan>
drewinthehead: its called work
- [21:19:22] <Phae>
I'm forgetful, so I need a bit of automated goodness.
- [21:19:53] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
- [21:23:15] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) has joined #microformats
- [21:25:47] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7706 * RyanKing * (-278) bugs fixed in hg
- [21:28:52] <drewinthehead>
found it ... (not for 'announcing' yet, but ok to share here I'm told) http://london.forgigmenot.com/gigs
- [21:30:23] * Phae tries it.
- [21:30:53] <Phae>
It's a bit outdated. I'm getting listings for May and June.
- [21:31:04] <Phae>
Oh. dUH. read. "gigs i've missed" :(
- [21:31:21] <Phae>
Nothing coming up. Smart though.
- [21:41:44] <drewinthehead>
apparently a nice design is coming soon, and then it'll be launching proper
- [21:42:07] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
- [21:42:13] <Phae>
Well, now I've grabbed my RSS, I won't need to go back
- [21:42:14] <drewinthehead>
i should get into using last.fm
- [21:42:36] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [21:42:39] <Phae>
I've had an account since it was just audioscrobbler
- [21:42:56] <Phae>
Although I reset it about 2 years ago
- [21:43:09] <drewinthehead>
if the rss marked up the events in hCalendar, then you could do the whole Endo thing (if anyone uses that)
- [21:43:37] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:44:13] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7707 * RyanKing * (+229) added clarification notes
- [21:44:52] * drewinthehead needs to updates his Dreamweaver extensions
- [21:46:27] <drewinthehead>
i'm not sure if anyone's actually using the DW stuff, but it's important that it exists i think
- [21:46:38] <Phae>
The one for MFs?
- [21:47:17] <drewinthehead>
yeah
- [21:47:32] <Phae>
I went to grab it the other day, and got distracted, and never did in the end. The last update on it wasn't that recent, anyway.
- [21:49:26] <drewinthehead>
yeah, it's a few months old now
- [21:50:16] <drewinthehead>
a lot of it is based off the online creators that kingryan develops
- [21:50:24] * Phae nods.
- [21:50:59] <drewinthehead>
i should CC license the icons i drew, come to think of it
- [21:51:00] <Phae>
It'd make life a bit quicker for doing contact pages, but atm, I still like marking stuff up by hand just because it's teaching me more.
- [21:51:12] <drewinthehead>
yes, i agree on that
- [21:51:31] * kingryan always marks mf stuff up by hand
- [21:52:17] <drewinthehead>
i need to add hReview too
- [21:52:30] <Phae>
I'm always a bit wary of automated tools for stuff like that. I don't like to be disconnected from code.
- [21:52:49] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7708 * RyanKing * (+112)
- [21:53:08] <kingryan>
me too, and I wrote the automated tools :D
- [21:53:17] <kingryan>
s/and/because/
- [21:53:32] <Phae>
Yeah, but you're helping those people who really don't want to look at code that much.
- [21:53:47] <Phae>
Odd people.
- [21:55:08] <drewinthehead>
heh
- [21:55:45] <mfbot>
[[hcard-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7709 * RyanKing * (+149) added link to email archive
- [21:56:16] <drewinthehead>
i used DW a lot for building large table-based static sites, but returned to hand coding when i started learning css layouts in 2001 or so
- [21:56:49] <drewinthehead>
and to my amazement, found that i really enjoyed coding by hand ... i'd forgotten how much fun it was
- [21:56:50] <Phae>
I'm actually a recent DW convert. Used to only use a text-editor. Was a bit worried that DW would start making things harder.
- [21:57:03] <Phae>
I only use it in code view, but I find the auto complete things handy for when I'm having blonde days.
- [21:58:51] <drewinthehead>
i think something like briansuda's cheat sheet would be useful inside a DW panel
- [21:59:14] <Phae>
Yeah. I have his cheat sheet stuck to the side of my computer at work.
- [22:00:14] <briansuda>
Phae, be sure you have the most current, i corrected a few errors
- [22:00:17] <mfbot>
[[hreview-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7710 * RyanKing * (+185) can't reproduce this bug, see email
- [22:00:18] <Phae>
Having it to hand in DW would make life quick though.
- [22:00:24] * drewinthehead was thinking of getting it tattooed
- [22:00:27] <Phae>
Uhm.. okay. I last grabbed it maybe a month ago?
- [22:00:34] <drewinthehead>
.. once the errors are ironed out ;)
- [22:00:35] <Phae>
heh drew.
- [22:01:24] <Phae>
You'd have to have it tattooed upside down on your stomach or something.
- [22:01:29] <Phae>
because it'd be a pain to use.
- [22:02:28] <mfbot>
[[hreview-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7711 * RyanKing * (+176) added notes requesting clarification
- [22:02:31] <drewinthehead>
that'd be ... weird
- [22:02:43] * briansuda is not liable for any tattoo mistakes!
- [22:02:45] <Phae>
heh
- [22:03:11] <drewinthehead>
perhaps hCard on the left inner-forearm, hCalendar on the right ;)
- [22:03:25] <Phae>
You caused a JAWS madness the other day Brian. Dubbed "the loop of suda".
- [22:03:46] <Phae>
heh
- [22:05:09] <kingryan>
where would you put rel-tag?
- [22:05:14] <kingryan>
back of your hand?
- [22:05:27] <Phae>
I can see this devolving.
- [22:05:52] * kingryan already saw it devolve in his head
- [22:06:37] <Phae>
:)
- [22:06:38] * tantek (n=tantek@65.91.82.56) has joined #microformats
- [22:06:38] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [22:06:54] <drewinthehead>
we'd better behave now .. tantek's here :)
- [22:06:58] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [22:07:11] <Phae>
we were!
- [22:07:43] <drewinthehead>
:P
- [22:09:06] <drewinthehead>
i reckon i have room for hReview on the sole of my left foot
- [22:09:25] <Phae>
Getting tattooed on the soles of your feet though. :/
- [22:09:31] <drewinthehead>
ouch
- [22:09:47] <drewinthehead>
i think the real problem arises when people grab me for reference
- [22:09:51] <Phae>
haha
- [22:10:11] <drewinthehead>
i think we'd better scratch the whole idea ;)
- [22:10:16] <Phae>
Agreed.
- [22:10:22] <Phae>
Maybe we should just get you some rub-on jobbies.
- [22:10:24] <drewinthehead>
(boom tish)
- [22:10:29] * briansuda reads through today's IRC log
- [22:11:22] <drewinthehead>
temporary tattoos would probably suit briansuda too
- [22:11:51] <tantek>
greetings
- [22:11:57] <Phae>
Good evening.
- [22:13:21] <drewinthehead>
hi tantek
- [22:13:57] <tantek>
hello Phae and drew
- [22:14:11] <briansuda>
temporary tattoos would make nice schwag
- [22:14:20] <drewinthehead>
oh, nice thought
- [22:14:23] <tantek>
yes indeed
- [22:14:26] <Phae>
Good for conferences etc.
- [22:14:36] <Phae>
d.construct :)
- [22:14:37] <briansuda>
SxSW had those "i am accessible" tattoos
- [22:15:13] <Phae>
That's almost a bad chatup.
- [22:15:56] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
- [22:16:24] <kingryan>
or a good chatup, if that works for you
- [22:16:32] <Phae>
;)
- [22:16:43] * drewinthehead wonders if there's such a thing
- [22:17:04] <Phae>
In the right crowd, it'd totally work.
- [22:17:59] <drewinthehead>
perhaps a tat with XFN values
- [22:18:11] <Phae>
heh
- [22:18:14] <drewinthehead>
so that you can place them on people you meet
- [22:18:38] <drewinthehead>
collect rel="met"s
- [22:19:44] <kingryan>
rel="touched" ?
- [22:20:13] <KevinMarks>
ryan and tantek are way ahead of you wiht the transparent technorati stickers
- [22:20:27] <kingryan>
oh, keep me out of this
- [22:20:28] <tantek>
(ahem)
- [22:20:39] <kingryan>
I don't apply the stickers, I only egg tantek on to do it
- [22:20:43] <kingryan>
(then take photos)
- [22:20:56] <Phae>
Oh, I see! I think I have seen some of the photos.
- [22:21:02] <tantek>
i always ask before applying to stickers, well at least to people
- [22:21:02] <deanero>
drewinthehead: all the subpop.com tour dates will be hcalendared soon
- [22:21:13] <briansuda>
i see that ryan king has a fun club http://flickr.com/groups/ryanking/
- [22:21:15] <tantek>
deanero - that will rock (so to speak)
- [22:21:27] <Phae>
I've seen it. Ryan friended me the other day.
- [22:21:34] <kingryan>
*cough* http://www.flickr.com/groups/tantekgetstheladies/
- [22:21:36] <kingryan>
*cough*
- [22:21:37] * deanero reads lasts hour's talk
- [22:21:38] <Phae>
hah
- [22:21:47] <Phae>
I think you both milk it.
- [22:21:47] * tantek blushes
- [22:21:48] <briansuda>
it is sort of like "Andre the Giant has a posse"
- [22:23:20] <drewinthehead>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/chicksdigmicroformats
- [22:23:36] <Phae>
heh
- [22:25:02] <kingryan>
indeed
- [22:26:33] * boneill (i=boneill@i-83-67-41-33.freedom2surf.net) Quit ("blah.")
- [22:26:37] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@67-40-166-22.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:26:38] <deanero>
is anyone coming to portland this week?
- [22:26:40] <tantek>
i prefer: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/microformatstshirt
- [22:26:56] <Phae>
:D
- [22:26:59] <tantek>
Ian Kallen will be there representing from Technorati
- [22:27:04] <drewinthehead>
225 .. we're doing well
- [22:27:06] <tantek>
if you mean OSCON
- [22:27:07] <deanero>
mechanical bull?
- [22:27:14] <deanero>
yes, i do :)
- [22:27:25] <Phae>
Some people show more than once though.
- [22:27:43] <tantek>
deanero, not mechanical bull, but giant rocking horse
- [22:27:48] <drewinthehead>
yeah, bigstylee
- [22:28:07] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [22:28:18] * Harry_Slaughter (n=harry@ip68-8-170-38.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:29:55] <deanero>
ahh. giant rocking horse = a party must
- [22:32:05] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
- [22:34:25] <tantek>
yes, saw that you got a shirt Phae - is there a shipper in the UK now?
- [22:35:11] <Phae>
Nope, I have a friend in NY who got it for me.
- [22:36:25] <drewinthehead>
i found a possible shipper, but didn't really follow it up
- [22:36:50] <Phae>
It would be good.
- [22:38:39] <drewinthehead>
yes ... i need to get my arse into gear and check them out
- [22:39:02] <drewinthehead>
but for now .. it's late. night all.
- [22:39:07] <Phae>
Night Drew.
- [22:39:15] * drewinthehead is now known as drewinthebed
- [22:42:41] * Harry_Slaughter (n=harry@ip68-8-170-38.sd.sd.cox.net) Quit ("http://devbee.com/")
- [22:43:17] * lgonze (n=chatzill@nat1.santamonica.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
- [22:43:17] <jibot>
lgonze is Lucas Gonze and blogs at http://www.gonze.com/
- [22:43:50] <bewest>
Hixie: because ops just installed FC4 on everyone's machine. FC4 makes it hard to get firefox 1.5 (doesn't work out of the box). you have to do something silly like yum install /path/to/somegcclib.so.1. which doesn't work for users that don't know how to override ops' "fix" to show yum where the real repository configs are.
- [22:44:12] <Hixie>
what do they have?
- [22:44:15] <Hixie>
firefox 1.0?
- [22:44:28] <bewest>
most have IE, firefox 1.07 or mozilla
- [22:44:38] <Hixie>
firefox 1.0 has a whole slew of unpatched serious security bugs
- [22:44:57] <Hixie>
so if you want them to upgrade to firefox 1.5, i recommend saying you've found a security bug :-)
- [22:47:50] <bewest>
Hixie: btw, do you have any plans to continue that report to track usage over time?
- [22:48:40] <Hixie>
i have plans to perform further reports to back up the decisions made at the whatwg
- [22:48:52] <Hixie>
i don't have any plans to do any particular research for research's sake
- [22:53:53] <Phae>
Right. Bedtime. Night guys.
- [22:53:55] * Phae (n=phae@85-210-23-226.dsl.pipex.com) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
- [22:58:54] <bewest>
Hixie: if you are looking for your bias, I think you've just spelt it out... however ongoing reports allow you to track changes in authorship patterns, as opposed to what was authored. such a thing would tell you rate of compliance over time...
- [22:59:21] <bewest>
Hixie: like... are people getting any better at authoring? more compliant or less compliant? which in turn would allow you to better craft future standards
- [22:59:42] <tantek>
well maybe
- [22:59:49] <tantek>
some of it may be too delayed
- [22:59:56] <tantek>
if you are focusing on the "mass of data"
- [22:59:57] <bewest>
yes, delayed
- [22:59:59] <bewest>
no doubt
- [23:00:04] <tantek>
too much inertia
- [23:00:11] <tantek>
you won't find sharply rising trends that way
- [23:00:15] <briansuda>
the tricky thing is that the the sample set might not be the same either... more/less pages
- [23:00:43] <briansuda>
i know 1 billion is a pretty good sample set, but there is a margin of error
- [23:01:41] <bewest>
any repsonsible ongoing research would solve sample set problems
- [23:01:46] * bewest makes wild assumptions with great ease
- [23:02:35] <Hixie>
bewest: yes, i'm biased towards solving immediate problems in the development in HTML5
- [23:03:24] <Hixie>
bewest: given the massive cost of running this research in the first place, i can't afford to just be off doing random studies
- [23:03:44] <bewest>
that's a good reason, I suppose :-)
- [23:03:59] <Hixie>
bewest: google are kind enough to see that research for making new standards is good for the web as a whole, i don't think they'd be as happy if i started just randomly looking for anything
- [23:04:22] <Hixie>
we _are_ talking about scanning over a billion files at a time here
- [23:04:29] <bewest>
yeah
- [23:05:48] <bewest>
seems kind of like Galileo recording sunspots though
- [23:06:00] <Hixie>
yeah, except i'm not a scientist
- [23:06:13] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.31-221.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:06:13] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
- [23:06:14] <Hixie>
and i don't work for google's R&D lab
- [23:07:06] <Hixie>
however, be my guest -- wasn't it you who said you also had this data you could scan? :-)
- [23:07:46] <bewest>
well... potentially I do
- [23:07:55] <bewest>
but I lack proper tools and know-how :-)
- [23:08:11] * Hixie lacked tools and know-how when he joined google too :-)
- [23:08:39] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ()
- [23:08:57] <bewest>
oh I haven't given up... I'm just exploring all avenues available, which generally include learning how to do it myself AND bugging other people who will listen
- [23:09:46] <bewest>
anyway, if the SVG were converted to PNG or something, it'd make the latter option a lot easier :-)
- [23:09:48] <bewest>
maybe I'll do it myself
- [23:10:11] * bewest checks out the reproduction notices on the report
- [23:10:43] <Hixie>
i used SVG because i could read SVG
- [23:10:56] <Hixie>
and converting SVG to PNG is hard
- [23:11:28] * pnhChris hits CMD-SHIFT-4
- [23:12:01] * bewest wonders what cmd-shift-4 does
- [23:12:24] <Hixie>
pnhChris: that doesn't scale
- [23:12:30] <pnhChris>
Hixie: I know :P
- [23:12:43] <Hixie>
i have better things to do in my life than that :_P
- [23:13:11] <pnhChris>
me too
- [23:13:40] * pnhChris hopes he didn't confuse bewest too much
- [23:14:36] <pnhChris>
(gives you a rectangle to draw around a part of the screen to take a screenshot
- [23:14:46] <pnhChris>
.. saves in PNG if you'd like
- [23:15:06] * Harry_Slaughter (n=harry@ip68-8-170-38.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:16:15] <pnhChris>
its a poor mans SVG-> PNG converter
- [23:16:25] <pnhChris>
or anything -> PNG converter
- [23:16:38] <tantek>
or you could use Eric Meyer's CSS Charts
- [23:16:46] <tantek>
that works in far more browsers than SVG
- [23:16:49] <tantek>
and is like 1000x faster
- [23:16:51] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]")
- [23:16:55] <Hixie>
if someone has an SVG->PNG converter that actually works, btw, i'm interested in it
- [23:17:02] <Hixie>
but in my experience none of them are compliant enough
- [23:17:02] <tantek>
and CSS charts scale
- [23:28:16] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [23:30:31] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) has joined #microformats
- [23:30:51] <KevinMarks>
ask in #webkit - iirc webkit top of tree does SVG, and making OSX emit pngs is pretty easy
- [23:32:05] <pnhChris>
hmmm
- [23:43:03] * tantek_ (n=tantek@65.91.82.56) has joined #microformats
- [23:43:45] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
- [23:43:46] <jibot>
ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
- [23:44:06] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
- [23:44:59] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) has joined #microformats
- [23:45:20] <lgonze>
what should a publisher do about the profile who can't insert a definition into the dcoument head? is there now consensus on that?
- [23:52:54] <tantek_>
lgonze, not yet, but the current proposal I am considering is enabling it through <a rel="profile" href="profileURL">
- [23:53:03] <tantek_>
as an addition to XMDP
- [23:53:21] <lgonze>
right
- [23:53:41] <lgonze>
my instinctive reaction to that is positive
- [23:59:27] * tantek (n=tantek@65.91.82.56) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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