IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:14:05] <jibot>
edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
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- [00:40:19] <lgonze>
what makes one microformat parser more successful than another? what design features would you recommend or warn against?
- [00:41:38] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=7712 * RyanKing * (-353) removin some old to-do's
- [00:41:40] <kingryan>
passing the tests helps
- [00:41:53] <kingryan>
(and helping write more tests is good, too :D)
- [00:48:47] <lgonze>
:)
- [00:49:01] <lgonze>
um, so, well...
- [00:49:03] <lgonze>
which tests?
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- [00:52:30] <kingryan>
http://microformats.org/tests/
- [00:52:43] <kingryan>
and more in progress here http://hg.microformats.org/tests
- [00:52:52] <kingryan>
so far only hcard and hcalendar
- [00:54:32] <lgonze>
very cool.
- [00:55:07] <lgonze>
...was just thinking about automated testing because I re-read Mark Pilgrim's source and noticed the test harness
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- [00:58:52] <KevinMarks>
in the feedparser?
- [01:00:39] <lgonze>
in http://diveintomark.org/projects/greasemonkey/hcard/hcard.user.js
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- [01:40:13] <davecardwell>
I'm currently in the process of developing a series of parsers, starting with hcard
- [01:41:17] <davecardwell>
should that hcard library take care of the parsing of adr's, or should I send that off to be parsed by a seperate adr library?
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- [01:57:07] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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- [01:59:56] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [02:34:43] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [02:45:27] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=7713 * Tantek * (+422) added in a couple of to-dos that were just dropped which had not been completed, more details
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- [02:47:00] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [02:58:28] <jibot>
Jonnay is a programmer, graphic designer and musician. He blogs at http://blog.jonnay.net and his music is at http://www.jonnay.net
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- [03:13:48] <jibot>
DanC_lap is DanC on his laptop.
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- [04:12:40] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [04:52:10] <jibot>
Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
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- [06:08:35] <jibot>
Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
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- [06:11:53] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [06:18:55] <Whiskey_M>
'lo
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- [06:33:55] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=7714 * ChristopheDucamp * (+345) [fr: add french localization web site - iconography in french ?]
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- [08:03:51] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [08:04:05] <Whiskey_M>
morning trovster
- [08:04:18] <trovster>
mornin'
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- [08:18:35] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [08:21:28] <jibot>
mn_francis is a web developer for Yahoo! Europe; http://cackhanded.net/ is his personal site
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- [08:59:55] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [09:15:49] <jibot>
boneill is Ben O'Neill, a 3rd year Software Engineering student - http://www.benedictoneill.com/
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- [09:54:06] <jibot>
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
- [09:54:08] <McNulty>
lo
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- [09:57:20] <jibot>
drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, the author of hKit and the curator of tools.microformatic.com
- [09:57:48] <drewinthehead>
mornin'
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- [10:40:23] <mfbot>
[[hcard-creator-feedback-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-creator-feedback-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1150)
- [10:41:04] <mfbot>
[[hcard-creator-feedback-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-creator-feedback-fr&diff=0&oldid=7715 * ChristopheDucamp * (-3) typo
- [10:42:19] <Whiskey_M>
is there any case when placing multiple meta data elements within an attribute they are not delimited with a ; ?
- [10:46:16] <McNulty>
class?
- [10:47:19] <Whiskey_M>
nope, I was more thinking <abbr class="geo" title="123;123">London</abbr>
- [10:47:51] <McNulty>
drewinthehead - your hAtom transcoder marks the RSS output as 'experimenta' but doesn't say which version of RSS?
- [10:47:53] <McNulty>
I presume 2.0
- [10:48:24] <drewinthehead>
i'll look
- [10:48:44] <drewinthehead>
2.0
- [10:48:53] <drewinthehead>
i'm using this: http://atom.geekhood.net/
- [10:49:05] <McNulty>
aha
- [10:49:36] <drewinthehead>
docs are here: http://tools.microformatic.com/help/xhtml/hatom/
- [10:49:54] <McNulty>
mm that's what I was looking at
- [10:50:10] <McNulty>
I just noticed it didn't specify the format and RSS is a mess.
- [10:53:55] * plaes|zZzz is now known as plaes
- [10:57:49] <drewinthehead>
yeah, it's a bit of a mess
- [10:58:32] <McNulty>
have you seen IE7 isn't going to support application/xml+xhtml?
- [10:58:35] <drewinthehead>
to be honest i didn't spend that long searching for atom to rss XSLs .. there may be better ones out there
- [10:58:42] <drewinthehead>
yup
- [10:59:44] <McNulty>
And their Accepts header doesn't specify text/html anywhere so you can't content-negotiate as well as you might.
- [10:59:44] <McNulty>
gah
- [11:00:56] <drewinthehead>
if you know of a better atom2rss ... i'd be glad to try it out
- [11:01:13] <McNulty>
I didn't mean the output was a mess (though it is)
- [11:01:32] <McNulty>
I mean RSS0.9x is quite different to RSS2.0 so it's worth specifying which type you're talking about
- [11:01:40] <McNulty>
I'm being picky, ignore it
- [11:03:22] <drewinthehead>
ah, i see
- [11:03:35] <drewinthehead>
i'll update the page to state RSS 2.0
- [11:04:22] <drewinthehead>
atom is at 1.0 isn't it?
- [11:04:35] <McNulty>
yes
- [11:05:51] <trovster>
Atom1.0 and RSS2.10
- [11:05:54] <trovster>
2.0 even
- [11:06:26] <drewinthehead>
updated, McNulty
- [11:08:04] <McNulty>
cool :-)
- [11:27:46] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7716 * Trovster * (-7874) Examples in the wild -
- [11:28:00] <trovster>
-7874?!
- [11:29:02] <mfbot>
[[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=7717 * Trovster * (+114) Examples in the wild -
- [11:29:38] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=7718 * Trovster * (+127) Examples in the wild -
- [11:31:39] <mfbot>
[[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=7719 * Pixelsebi * (+176) Examples in the wild -
- [11:50:54] <drewinthehead>
trovster: looks like you broke the hcard page
- [11:54:26] <drewinthehead>
not your fault .. it's got too long
- [11:55:41] <Phae>
It looks okay to me.
- [11:56:13] <drewinthehead>
it got truncated: http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7716
- [11:56:48] <Phae>
ah
- [11:57:01] <drewinthehead>
it's happened before .. once the page gets over 32k (I think)
- [11:57:16] <drewinthehead>
needs splitting up into multiple pages
- [11:59:07] <drewinthehead>
i think only admins can roll it back, so we'll need to get tantek or kingryan to take a look at it .. unless KevinMarks can?
- [12:01:47] <trovster>
oh shit!
- [12:01:54] <trovster>
I make one or two changes and break it!
- [12:02:13] * drewinthehead sings: trovster broke the wiki, trovster broke the wiki!
- [12:03:04] <drewinthehead>
don't sweat it, trovster, it's been happening. not your fault.
- [12:03:17] <Phae>
heh
- [12:03:30] <trovster>
:)
- [12:03:45] <mn_francis>
don't tell him that!
- [12:03:49] <mn_francis>
ruin the fun!
- [12:04:18] <Whiskey_M>
http://www.redantdesign.com/hcard/take2.asp <-- for anyone that's interested in the slightest ;-)
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- [12:05:18] <Phae>
You can't nest hFeeds, right?
- [12:06:21] <drewinthehead>
i'm pretty sure you can't
- [12:06:34] <Phae>
Just checkin'.
- [12:07:25] <trovster>
don't think so, that's why a new site I'm developing wasn't working
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- [12:07:29] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [12:07:42] <Phae>
Yeah, I've just come up against accidentally nesting them.
- [12:07:52] <Phae>
Because of where I've chosen to put the hfeed for main entry.
- [12:08:50] <trovster>
The way to get around that (that's my problem too) is not have the hFeed on the main entry, as it's kinda pointless. And only have it for the comments (coz if they parse the permalink, that's what they're gonna want, right?)
- [12:08:56] <drewinthehead>
Whiskey_M: hOrg?
- [12:09:06] <Phae>
I suppose so.
- [12:09:35] <Phae>
Is that correct? I thought it *should* have hfeed, or it takes the page as it... so I ought to add it if I can.
- [12:09:52] <Phae>
I think I just need to think around my problem. Stupid wordpress.
- [12:09:57] <trovster>
Well, it would have hfeed for the comments, just not the permalink article.
- [12:09:59] <drewinthehead>
right .. add it if you can
- [12:10:14] <Phae>
I was just checking that nesting was bad :)
- [12:10:26] <Whiskey_M>
drew, a quick bit of rubbish to control nesting of elements - names are an odd one
- [12:10:43] <drewinthehead>
ah, ok
- [12:13:09] <trovster>
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=nissan&near=Penkridge,+UK&radius=0.0&latlng=52723909,-2115869,13255768573563903394 -- should mark those up as hCards
- [12:13:55] <drewinthehead>
Whiskey_M: how do you deal with stuff like type/value being optional for email?
- [12:14:26] <Whiskey_M>
it's optional? Back to the description - I would imagine minOccurs=0
- [12:14:29] <Whiskey_M>
though
- [12:15:18] <drewinthehead>
same for tel etc
- [12:15:25] <Phae>
gah
- [12:17:33] <Whiskey_M>
misunderstood that one - I've uploaded after changing the e-mail, I have left the value as mandatory though when e-mail is used
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- [12:37:56] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [12:49:27] <mfbot>
[[xmdp-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xmdp-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=7720 * Richard Conyard * (+58) Follow up -
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- [13:11:34] <jibot>
edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
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- [13:53:46] * drewinthehead does a code dance
- [13:54:14] <drewinthehead>
i just wrote an xFolk profile for hKit ... took approximately 2 mins and worked first time
- [13:56:09] <drewinthehead>
that's the first time i've actually tried it with anything other than hCard
- [13:57:29] <trovster>
Ace. You're da man
- [13:59:33] <drewinthehead>
admittedly, xFolk isn't the most challenging of profiles
- [14:00:38] <trovster>
Well, that's not the point!
- [14:02:59] <drewinthehead>
true enough :)
- [14:08:37] <drewinthehead>
anyone here know xFolk well?
- [14:09:03] <drewinthehead>
i'm trying to work out if the text of a taggedlink is important
- [14:09:46] <AdamCraven>
123
- [14:10:37] <drewinthehead>
ah, looks like it is
- [14:13:36] <drewinthehead>
AdamCraven: 123?
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- [14:20:26] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
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- [14:28:55] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
- [14:31:34] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
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- [14:31:35] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
- [14:32:46] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
- [14:32:47] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [14:33:28] <drewinthehead>
briansuda: do you have the ability to rollback wiki pages?
- [14:33:56] <briansuda>
yes i do, but i've never used that power yet, what's up?
- [14:34:15] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) has joined #microformats
- [14:34:36] <drewinthehead>
the hcard page got truncated when <abbr title="trovster">somebody</abbr> edited it
- [14:34:56] <briansuda>
do you have a link?
- [14:35:00] <drewinthehead>
that page has gone over the 32k 'safe' point
- [14:35:01] <drewinthehead>
sur
- [14:35:04] <drewinthehead>
sure
- [14:35:16] <drewinthehead>
http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7716
- [14:35:45] <briansuda>
http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&curid=1002&diff=0&oldid=7716&rcid=9627
- [14:35:52] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [14:35:55] <briansuda>
ok, let me try to roll it back
- [14:36:07] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7721 * Brian * (+7874) Reverted edit of Trovster, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [14:36:19] <briansuda>
i think that got it.
- [14:36:28] <drewinthehead>
looks right. thanks!
- [14:36:29] <briansuda>
+7874, that's alot restored
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- [14:37:01] <drewinthehead>
yes, it was about that much it was minus last time, which was how we spotted the problem
- [14:37:27] <drewinthehead>
i think this is going to keep happening until that page is broken down into smaller pages
- [14:38:30] <drewinthehead>
should we create hcard-exampes-wild or something?
- [14:38:40] * drewinthehead hates naming wiki pages
- [14:39:44] <briansuda>
i think it is both a length issue and a browser issue
- [14:41:31] <drewinthehead>
yes, the former triggering the latter
- [14:43:41] <drewinthehead>
i wonder if this is why we have 'Examples' and 'New Examples' sections ...
- [14:44:30] <drewinthehead>
still doesn't help if someone edits the entire page rather than a section
- [14:48:23] <mfbot>
[[books-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=books-ja&diff=0&oldid=7722 * Vant * (+229) translation complete
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- [14:50:03] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
- [14:50:05] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
- [14:50:24] <mfbot>
[[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=7723 * Vant * (-6) Timezone changed (due to my return)
- [14:51:25] <mfbot>
[[irc-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-ja&diff=0&oldid=7724 * Vant * (-6) IRCにいる人々 -
- [15:01:35] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
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- [15:03:13] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [15:03:32] * pnhChris smiles at jibot
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- [15:05:22] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7725 * ChristopheDucamp * (+230)
- [15:06:23] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=7726 * ChristopheDucamp * (-230) revert
- [15:07:13] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-creator-feedback-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-creator-feedback-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1650) [fr: translation hcalendar-creator-feedback]
- [15:07:50] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-creator-feedback-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback-fr&diff=0&oldid=7727 * ChristopheDucamp * (-10) Rapport de Bugs - typo
- [15:17:31] <mfbot>
[[hreview-creator-feedback-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview-creator-feedback-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1825)
- [15:20:22] <trovster>
So, I'm not allowed to ammend the hCard page?
- [15:20:54] <drewinthehead>
you're probably alright with just a section, but not the whole page
- [15:21:03] <trovster>
I did just a section, I thought
- [15:21:07] <drewinthehead>
a warning appears right at the top if it's too long
- [15:21:16] <drewinthehead>
but that's easy to miss
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- [15:47:11] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
- [15:47:12] <jibot>
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
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- [15:47:51] <McNulty>
I have some contacts I'd like to mark up with hCard, but I'm not sure what to do with the 'secretary name' and 'secretary tel' fields
- [15:48:10] <McNulty>
I could do it as a separate hCard, or just put the secretary as an alternate tel type?
- [15:51:30] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@ool-44c1e1dc.dyn.optonline.net) Quit ()
- [15:56:10] <McNulty>
or does hCard somehow cover proxy contacts and I've missed it
- [15:57:13] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable153.95-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit ()
- [16:01:24] <McNulty>
aha, vCard has an Agent property that allows a nested hCard, is this something that transfers across to hCard?
- [16:02:01] <Whiskey_M>
not more to try and put in the xsd ;-)
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- [16:04:37] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [16:04:49] <McNulty>
It seems to allow nested vCards for, e.g. secretaries. I dunno if any hCard implementations do this at the moment
- [16:04:59] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [16:05:25] <tantek>
AGENT allows that yes
- [16:05:54] <McNulty>
tantek - so I would do <div class="vcard agent"> inside an existing vCard?
- [16:06:05] <tantek>
yes
- [16:06:15] <tantek>
check hcard-examples
- [16:06:21] <tantek>
i believe there is an example of it there
- [16:06:21] <McNulty>
Aha, excellent
- [16:07:57] <McNulty>
I am considering listing the people separately and then including theagents into their boss' cards as well
- [16:08:30] <tantek>
yes that makes sense
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- [16:21:05] <drewinthehead>
tantek, we had another instance of long page truncation on the wiki - the hcard page. (now rolled back)
- [16:22:38] <tantek>
doh
- [16:23:41] <tantek>
trovster, which browser were you using?
- [16:23:49] <trovster>
Firefox.
- [16:23:53] <tantek>
version?
- [16:24:02] <trovster>
1.5.0.4
- [16:24:05] <tantek>
hmm....
- [16:24:15] <tantek>
I've been using Camino without difficulty.
- [16:24:27] <tantek>
odd because their engines are supposed to be nearly the same
- [16:24:47] <trovster>
Indeed, but Camino doesn't like my image-replaced submit buttons!
- [16:25:04] * tantek doesn't like FF1.5.x because they got rid of ctrl-tab for switching tabs.
- [16:25:12] <trovster>
but is it a browser issue?
- [16:25:16] <drewinthehead>
form widgets are one of the differences in Camino, trovster
- [16:25:16] <tantek>
yes
- [16:25:22] <trovster>
ctrl+tab still works for me
- [16:25:31] <tantek>
on OSX?
- [16:25:43] <trovster>
Oh, dunno ;)
- [16:26:47] * McNulty didn't realise ctrl-tab switched tabs
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- [16:35:41] <Whiskey_M>
http://www.redantdesign.com/hcard/take2.asp <-- still more than a work in progress, but we have xmdp! :)
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- [16:50:02] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [16:53:29] <jibot>
evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
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- [17:06:37] <deanero>
so appropriating "author" from hatom and using an hcard org would make sense for musical artists in the context of describing their works, right?
- [17:07:14] <tantek>
not necessarily deanero
- [17:07:26] <tantek>
best to follow the process
- [17:07:35] <tantek>
check out the work on media-info
- [17:08:16] <tantek>
media/music related info/formats have been particularly challenging
- [17:08:26] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
- [17:09:12] <deanero>
i'll for sure work on/with that as it develops, but i need to publish real soon... :)
- [17:09:23] <deanero>
so... o=in a pinch? :)
- [17:09:52] * deanero isn't sure where that o= came from
- [17:10:00] <Whiskey_M>
lol
- [17:15:22] <deanero>
would it make sense in this type of context: http://www.subpop.com/features/release.html ?
- [17:15:35] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:15:39] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
- [17:16:21] <deanero>
and/or am i even using it correctly?
- [17:17:36] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
- [17:17:37] <jibot>
ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
- [17:19:06] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
- [17:21:40] * deanero just realized i was talking to himself
- [17:21:49] <Whiskey_M>
it's normal
- [17:22:11] <deanero>
my tenses are all screwy too- irc madness
- [17:26:17] <deanero>
kingryan: you worked on some of the media-metadata stuff?
- [17:26:26] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [17:26:32] <kingryan>
a bit
- [17:27:40] <Whiskey_M>
time for a cig :)
- [17:28:08] <deanero>
it seems like it'd be easier to solve the problem of whole albums
- [17:28:19] <deanero>
rather than track by track metadata
- [17:28:29] <deanero>
to start
- [17:28:53] <deanero>
plus, that's my problem domain...
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- [17:35:05] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:35:05] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [17:35:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [17:35:56] <Whiskey_M>
wb tantek
- [17:39:56] <Whiskey_M>
http://intranet2k3:370/hCard/take2.asp <-- I've done a whole heap of making it up as I go along on this stuff, if anyone could give it a once over to make sure I'm not been completely stupid then I'd be grateful. If I have it even close my next steps after tidy would be to write a generic xhtml / microformats parse XSL
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- [17:40:14] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
- [17:40:38] <kingryan>
Whiskey_M: is that supposed to be an accessible URL?
- [17:40:48] <Whiskey_M>
damn
- [17:41:16] <Whiskey_M>
http://www.redantdesign.com/hcard/take2.asp <-- that should be
- [17:43:33] <kingryan>
correct me if I'm wrong, but are you trying to create an xsd for hcard?
- [17:43:40] <kingryan>
or for an xml mapping of hcard?
- [17:43:58] <tantek>
i think it is an xsd for hcard
- [17:44:12] <tantek>
and more generically, a way to encode xsd in xmdp
- [17:44:19] <tantek>
right whiskey_m?
- [17:44:30] <tantek>
see xmdp-brainstorming for more details on this brainstorm
- [17:44:30] <Whiskey_M>
both, the xsd with mapping to xhtml to allow straight XML to be pulled from microformats on a page
- [17:45:36] * Harry_Slaughter (n=harry@ip68-8-170-38.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:45:44] <Whiskey_M>
the idea / trick being to be able to do it for any microformat with a similar xsd available
- [17:46:21] * kingryan is reading the markup
- [17:46:28] <kingryan>
how does this compare to grddl ?
- [17:46:46] <Whiskey_M>
I did put some odd / bad things in there as an idea though -- semantic extension etc.
- [17:46:58] <Whiskey_M>
probably more than similar
- [17:48:03] <kingryan>
I notice you also changed the spelling of properties to the british spelling
- [17:48:08] <kingryan>
ie 'honourific'
- [17:48:33] <Whiskey_M>
ahh, my mistake - only get to spend any time on this after work so somewhat tired
- [17:48:33] <tantek>
yeah, that's a problem
- [17:49:32] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [17:49:32] <jibot>
drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, the author of hKit and the curator of tools.microformatic.com
- [17:51:16] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
- [17:51:40] <Whiskey_M>
u's dropped, s'es replaced with z's
- [17:55:10] <Whiskey_M>
Looking at GRDDL it would appear that I've added an extra step, rather than translating the source directly the xsd should allow the semantic info to be normalised and then you'd translate
- [18:00:43] * Phae (n=phae@85-210-23-226.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #microformats
- [18:00:44] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
- [18:08:59] <Whiskey_M>
it's getting far too close to 12 hours in the office so I'm outta here. I'll check logs if anyone wants to beat me around the head in my absence, or point out that I've missed something very stupid
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- [18:38:04] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [19:42:09] <mfbot>
[[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=7728 * Sardinia * (+236)
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- [19:51:50] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [20:46:27] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=7729 * DanC * (+90) review/revise playlist notes
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- [20:47:23] <mfbot>
[[User:DanC]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:DanC&diff=0&oldid=7730 * DanC * (+16) link todo list
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- [21:10:50] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=7731 * KorvinAmber * (+49756)
- [21:11:25] <tantek>
crap
- [21:11:36] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=7732 * Tantek * (-49756) Reverted edit of KorvinAmber, changed back to last version by Ant
- [21:12:02] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:KorvinAmber" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
- [21:25:19] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
- [21:25:43] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
- [21:25:48] <mfbot>
[[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=7733 * Tantek * (+395) move new wordpress plugin implementation to Implementations section, created Examples with problems section, cleaned up footer a bit to be more like hCard
- [21:30:30] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.31-221.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:30:30] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
- [21:51:14] <DanC>
hmm... mediawiki support for openid seems to be maturing. http://www.openidenabled.com/software/mediawiki
- [21:51:32] <DanC>
who set up the microformats wiki? was that Ryan?
- [21:51:48] <kingryan|away>
I don't think it was me
- [21:51:52] <kingryan|away>
I think kragen did it
- [21:51:54] * kingryan|away is now known as kingryan
- [21:52:11] <DanC>
jibot, what's kragen's email address?
- [21:52:31] <DanC>
kragen?
- [21:52:37] <kingryan>
kragen sitaker
- [21:52:39] <DanC>
jibot, kragen?
- [21:52:47] <DanC>
jibot, help?
- [21:52:55] <kingryan>
?define kragen
- [21:53:27] <DanC>
this guy? http://www.canonical.org/~kragen/
- [21:53:30] <kingryan>
?whois kragen
- [21:53:30] <jibot>
Nobody has defined kragen yet
- [21:53:36] <kingryan>
yeah
- [21:53:45] <kingryan>
I don't think he's at commercenet anymore, though
- [21:53:52] <kingryan>
(which was his involvement with mf.org)
- [21:53:59] <DanC>
oh
- [21:54:05] <kingryan>
I guess I'm probably the person to talk to about sysadmin stuff
- [21:54:39] * DanC is on a jihad to make sure every production system at W3C has at least two people who grok it
- [21:55:13] * deanero (n=dean@66.239.39.109.ptr.us.xo.net) Quit ()
- [21:55:32] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has left #microformats
- [21:55:38] <DanC>
maybe I should try it on dm93.org before I ask microformats.org to do it
- [21:55:39] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:55:39] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
- [21:55:47] <DanC>
replya...
- [21:55:48] <DanC>
maybe I should try it on dm93.org before I ask microformats.org to do it
- [21:56:37] <DanC>
Server: Apache/2.0.53 (Ubuntu) DAV/2 SVN/1.1.1 PHP/4.3.10-10ubuntu4.1 mod_ssl/2.0.53 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
- [21:56:55] <DanC>
hmm... that doesn't tell me what version of mediawiki
- [21:57:03] <DanC>
(though it gives the version of just about everything else!)
- [21:57:37] <bewest>
who grok it?
- [21:57:39] <kingryan>
http://microformats.org/wiki/Special:Version
- [21:57:47] <bewest>
what do you mean grok it?
- [21:58:07] <DanC>
I mean people who can't say "fred's on vacation; I can't help you with that until he gets back" ;-)
- [21:58:37] <kingryan>
SPOF
- [21:58:59] <DanC>
ah... http://microformats.org/wiki/Special:Version ... nice
- [21:59:00] <KevinMarks>
de-spoffing
- [21:59:57] <DanC>
yes, anti-SPOF... I think complete pair programming is too much to ask of the W3C systems guys, but something close to there. i.e. only N-2 people get to say "I have no idea how that crazy thing works"
- [22:00:01] <drewinthehead>
bewest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok
- [22:00:10] <bewest>
I think I know what grok means
- [22:00:26] <bewest>
just confused on what it means to grok a production system
- [22:00:35] * bewest reads the article anyway
- [22:00:46] <kingryan>
to be able to fix or upgrade it without breaking things?
- [22:01:06] <bewest>
drewinthehead: microformatics is yours right?
- [22:01:15] <drewinthehead>
right
- [22:01:18] <DanC>
right. without fear of breaking things, that is. it's inevitable that they will actually break it, but they'll fix it right after ;-)
- [22:01:23] <bewest>
drewinthehead: can run xslt stuff on there?
- [22:01:27] <kingryan>
right, DanC
- [22:01:34] <drewinthehead>
yes, bewest
- [22:01:35] <kingryan>
"without fear of the unknown"
- [22:01:36] <bewest>
drewinthehead: I think I'd like to write something that does gdata -> microformats
- [22:01:45] <drewinthehead>
cool
- [22:01:51] <bewest>
drewinthehead: but I'd like to make it available in a way that is consistent with other tools
- [22:02:04] <bewest>
was thinking about python, but then I always realize it should be xslt problably
- [22:02:10] <drewinthehead>
great .. happy to host it if you'd like
- [22:02:14] <bewest>
ok cool
- [22:02:39] * DanC considers pointing bewest at grddl... maybe not today...
- [22:02:45] <bewest>
oh griddl
- [22:02:49] <bewest>
been meaning to look at that
- [22:02:55] <bewest>
been popping up on my radar
- [22:02:58] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [22:03:07] <DanC>
see http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view "GRDDL Data Views: Getting Started, Learning More"
- [22:03:12] <bewest>
DanC: you familiar with any of the mit projects?
- [22:03:14] <kingryan>
so, I'm starting work on a test suite for hreview parsing....
- [22:03:25] <bewest>
DanC: I saw simile which seems to be part of the same group as you? CSAIL or something?
- [22:03:38] <kingryan>
and I'm trying to decide what format to put the control version of the data
- [22:03:41] <DanC>
yes, simile is not far from DIG, which I'm a member of
- [22:03:46] <bewest>
ah dig
- [22:03:51] <kingryan>
for hcard we have vcard; hcalendar, icalendar
- [22:04:09] <bewest>
that simile stuff is really interesting... I'm particularly interested in that timeline viewer
- [22:04:10] <kingryan>
so, I was thinking about using JSON or YAML with hReview, since we don't have a RFC format
- [22:04:12] <kingryan>
thougths?
- [22:04:14] <kingryan>
thoughts*
- [22:04:32] <KevinMarks>
XOXO?
- [22:04:38] <bewest>
would like to make an interface that dynamically pipes hCalendars -> simile's timeline
- [22:04:49] <DanC>
JSON would prolly work for me... though I'd prefer RDF. Danny A did some relevant work. http://micromodels.org/profiles/hreview
- [22:04:55] <bewest>
JSON++
- [22:04:59] <KevinMarks>
is that too recursive
- [22:05:04] <kingryan>
KevinMarks: then we need to get xoxo parsers for everyone
- [22:05:07] <kingryan>
(and xoxo tests?)
- [22:05:23] <kingryan>
DanC: I'll be writing this by hand, so RDF--
- [22:05:27] * KevinMarks has them fro python & php
- [22:05:34] <DanC>
bewest, have you seen the tabulator? it takes arbitrary RDF calendar foo and puts it on the simile timeline.
- [22:05:44] <KevinMarks>
but yes, lets do that too
- [22:05:45] <kingryan>
I know, KevinMarks, but that still another depenency
- [22:05:45] <tantek>
KevinMarks, not until you resolve the xoxo parsing issues we have talked about
- [22:05:49] <bewest>
hmmm
- [22:05:51] <bewest>
interesting
- [22:05:56] <KevinMarks>
JSON seems like a good intermediate
- [22:06:00] <tantek>
yes
- [22:06:05] <tantek>
JSON seems to have a lot of uptake
- [22:06:07] <bewest>
so maybe a hCalendar -> RDF calendar foo?
- [22:06:39] <hober>
(incf json)
- [22:06:43] <DanC>
is there a handy JSON pretty-printer? else diff is hard to look at
- [22:07:11] <DanC>
you can pretty-print JSON structures using pprint.pprint from the python standard library, but I'm not sure if any pythonisms leak in.
- [22:07:32] <KevinMarks>
sounds like a JSON to XOXO handiness
- [22:07:32] <bewest>
drewinthehead: microformatics would be good for a uformat translator or something... I've been thinking of a website that has a whole bunch of these things... uformat <-> gdata, uformat <-> RDF, et cet.. ad nauseum
- [22:07:52] <DanC>
re tabulator timeline support, see http://dig.csail.mit.edu/issues/tabulator/issue29
- [22:08:02] <KevinMarks>
OK, lets get the xoxo stuff checked in with test cases, then add testcases for the issues we still have
- [22:08:17] <bewest>
if those translators were in place, we could start building neat interfaces that pipe everything onto a map, or onto a timeline
- [22:08:26] <bewest>
which is the part I'm really interested in
- [22:08:30] <kingryan>
pipes++
- [22:08:32] <tantek>
KevinMarks, up to you to drive it
- [22:08:34] <kingryan>
tubes--
- [22:08:36] <DanC>
what's the hypothesis of a xoxo test? "item 4 is 'abc'"?
- [22:08:43] <bewest>
kingryan: yeah, I've been using the word pipes a lot, but people get confused
- [22:08:48] <DanC>
and is xoxo the same "shape" as JSON?
- [22:08:51] <tantek>
DanC, a lot of it has to do with the human-friendly shorthands
- [22:08:59] <kingryan>
DanC: xoxo is shaped more like xml
- [22:09:03] <kingryan>
or opml
- [22:09:08] <tantek>
XOXO is a generic nested list / outlines format for humans first, data structures second
- [22:09:12] <KevinMarks>
depends how you look at it
- [22:09:17] <tantek>
nope
- [22:09:20] <tantek>
per the principles
- [22:09:26] <DanC>
more like xml... hmm... what I like about JSON is that you can have a list of numbers without naming them. [1 2 3]
- [22:09:31] <tantek>
we're not compromising on that one
- [22:09:39] <tantek>
if you want machines first, you've got XML
- [22:09:47] <tantek>
no need to reinvent XML ;)
- [22:10:17] <KevinMarks>
<ol class="xoxo"><li>1</li><li>2</li><li>3</li><ol>
- [22:10:26] <DanC>
bewest, re "everything on a map or onto a timeline" you really need to check out the tabulator
- [22:10:52] <bewest>
damn it's already done?
- [22:10:53] <bewest>
:-(
- [22:10:54] <DanC>
KevinMarks, then xoxo _is_ more like JSON than XML. You can't say [1 2 3] in XML.
- [22:10:56] <KevinMarks>
I see that XOXO and JSON should be isomorphic
- [22:10:56] <bewest>
I mean :-)
- [22:10:59] <KevinMarks>
Right
- [22:11:11] <KevinMarks>
I'm agreeing wiht you adn disagreeing with Ryan
- [22:11:32] <DanC>
ah.
- [22:12:02] <KevinMarks>
attention.xml is the OPML-alike
- [22:12:09] <DanC>
hmm... JSON distinguishes between 1 and "1". I doubt xoxo does that.
- [22:12:20] <tantek>
right, XOXO is untyped
- [22:12:29] <KevinMarks>
not currently, but the REST stuff has a suggestion on how to
- [22:12:33] <tantek>
because guess what, most humans don't need explicit typing
- [22:12:39] <DanC>
does the difference between 1 and "1" show up in hReview? I doubt it.
- [22:12:47] <tantek>
DanC, be more specific
- [22:12:51] <tantek>
in what property?
- [22:13:10] <KevinMarks>
http://microformats.org/wiki/rest/datatypes
- [22:13:20] <KevinMarks>
so could add those as classes to XOXO
- [22:13:42] <DanC>
we got onto "what format? JSON? xoxo?" because somebody (ryan?) is starting on hReview tests. so if the difference between 1 and "1" matters in hReview, JSON is likely to work better than xoxo
- [22:13:49] * deanero (n=dean@66.239.39.109.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:13:59] <kingryan>
DanC: I don't think it matters
- [22:14:03] <kingryan>
(in hreview)
- [22:14:14] <kingryan>
we have couple of fields that are numbers, but they're always numbers
- [22:14:19] <tantek>
right
- [22:14:29] <tantek>
all fields in hReview are deterministically of a single type
- [22:14:34] <DanC>
oh my. (re http://microformats.org/wiki/rest/datatypes )
- [22:14:47] <tantek>
DanC, you're on the microformats-rest list right?
- [22:14:56] <DanC>
no. well, I skim the archive now and then.
- [22:15:22] * DanC is pretty conservative about subscribing to lists
- [22:16:40] <DanC>
"We recommend using PHP 4.4.x or greater" vs "PHP (http://www.php.net/): 4.3.10-10ubuntu4.1". darn.
- [22:17:49] <DanC>
isn't everybody else fed up with managing 232394723984 different passwords? Deploying OpenID is a bit of a pain, but I'd like to think it would go a little faster.
- [22:18:33] <kingryan>
yes, DanC, I'm fed up too, but that 24hrs/day problem keeps slowin' me down :D
- [22:19:05] * Gr1m (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [22:19:33] <DanC>
can you allocate any time to it? or should I start working with the ubuntu guys?
- [22:19:57] <DanC>
surely if I arrange for ubutuntu to support it, you'll get onboard?
- [22:20:10] <tantek>
DanC, it's not a matter of being onboard or not
- [22:20:20] <tantek>
see above Ryan's comment about 24hrs/day limitation
- [22:20:22] <DanC>
it's a matter of time/priorities
- [22:20:53] <kingryan>
if you can send me info what the dependencies are, I can allocate a few hours to it
- [22:21:00] <DanC>
what I meant was: if I arrange for ubuntu to support it, will you apt-get install and deal with some reasonable amount of config hassle?
- [22:21:11] <kingryan>
yes
- [22:22:00] <DanC>
anybody else experimenting with openid?
- [22:22:19] <DanC>
verisign's openid service is nice.
- [22:23:24] <deanero>
i was planning to checking out the session at oscon
- [22:24:01] <kingryan>
alright, back to hreview+json...
- [22:24:18] <kingryan>
could I get some feedback on http://theryanking.com/temp/01-spec.html
- [22:24:22] <kingryan>
and http://theryanking.com/temp/01-spec.json
- [22:25:09] <DanC>
how did you pretty-print it?
- [22:25:21] <hober>
strictly speaking, that isn't a json object
- [22:25:38] <hober>
{ 'reviews' : <everything in that file> } would be
- [22:25:47] <kingryan>
DanC: huh?
- [22:25:52] <DanC>
really? json can't have [] on the outside?
- [22:26:04] <DanC>
did you write 01-spec.json by hand?
- [22:26:06] <hober>
the outermost expression has to be an object, yeah.
- [22:26:25] * drewinthehead is now known as drewinthe_
- [22:26:25] <kingryan>
ok, hober
- [22:26:37] <kingryan>
uploading new version
- [22:26:41] <kingryan>
yes, DanC
- [22:26:48] <DanC>
hmm...
- [22:26:48] <DanC>
"vcard": {
- [22:26:48] <DanC>
"fn": "Crepes on Cole",
- [22:26:48] <DanC>
"org": "Crepes on Cole"
- [22:27:23] <DanC>
my vcard-in-JSON structure has gotten a lot more complicated than that, in order to deal with organization-unit and such
- [22:28:33] <kingryan>
can I see your vcard-json stuff?
- [22:28:50] <DanC>
well, it's sorta all over the place... I'm looking...
- [22:29:10] <kingryan>
btw, tantek: the first example in http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview lacks a 'version' element
- [22:29:11] <DanC>
I'm sorta trying to collect it in http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2006/data4/ , but it's slow going...
- [22:29:13] <kingryan>
on purpose?
- [22:29:34] <tantek>
version is still optional AFAIK
- [22:29:39] <tantek>
in hReview
- [22:29:43] <tantek>
and I very much want to keep it that way
- [22:29:54] <kingryan>
ah, yes
- [22:29:55] <kingryan>
I forgot
- [22:30:37] <kingryan>
DanC: I'm not sure we need all the charset stuff in these tests
- [22:30:38] * tantek can even see dropping version in a future version of hReview, since so far it has not made a big difference and constitutes invisible metadata (e.g. as created by the hReview creator), and does not reflect any existing publishing practice.
- [22:30:53] <DanC>
charset?
- [22:31:03] <kingryan>
from http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2006/data4/
- [22:31:13] <kingryan>
you have '{u'fn': {u'charset': u'UTF-8', 'value': u'Tantek \xc7elik'},'
- [22:31:17] <kingryan>
which seems like overkill
- [22:31:35] <DanC>
I agree it's overkill; but x2v produces it.
- [22:31:50] <tantek>
it is necessary for proper parsing of UTF8 text values
- [22:31:57] <tantek>
in vCard properties
- [22:31:57] <DanC>
and I have some code that deletes it for the utf-8 case (and craps out on anything else)
- [22:32:14] <tantek>
because, guess what, when files get downloaded, they don't have a "HTTP header" section
- [22:32:29] <tantek>
so therefore all file formats need to be self-describing in terms of charset
- [22:32:43] <DanC>
well, JSON already is self-describing.
- [22:32:59] <DanC>
so in JSON, it's redundant to say utf-8 and wrong to say anything else, I think.
- [22:33:08] <kingryan>
any more comments on the json structure I wrote?
- [22:33:22] <kingryan>
(I've taken hober's suggestion and updated)
- [22:33:47] <KevinMarks>
that u'' s Pythons way of saying unicode - is that JSON too?
- [22:34:17] <hober>
it's not JSON, no.
- [22:34:20] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [22:34:24] * boneill (i=boneill@i-83-67-41-33.freedom2surf.net) Quit ("blah.")
- [22:34:33] * bewest tries to catch up
- [22:34:40] <KevinMarks>
so thats a parsing artefact?
- [22:34:40] * bewest had some work to do
- [22:35:09] <hober>
KevinMarks: that's an artifact of the Python pretty-printer.
- [22:35:33] <bewest>
when I need extra stuff, I usually stick in a meta object at the root level, or whatever level needs it
- [22:35:56] <bewest>
so you might have { meta: { charset : "UTF-8" }, data: {....}}
- [22:36:15] <DanC>
here's the JSON/python structure I use for hCards for airports: http://bgf-mirc.pastebin.ca/100218
- [22:36:47] <DanC>
'nickname': {'text': 'MCI'}
- [22:37:10] <DanC>
I'm not sure I'm happy with it, but it's the simplest thing that works in all the code I'm writing.
- [22:37:20] <kingryan>
'url': {'_': u'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_International_Airport'}}
- [22:37:25] <kingryan>
what's '_' ?
- [22:37:25] <bewest>
why _?
- [22:37:29] <kingryan>
a blank node?
- [22:37:36] <mfbot>
[[hlisting]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting * Rohit * (+103)
- [22:37:49] <DanC>
no, '_' is whatever appears raw in .ics format, e.g. before undoing \ escapes
- [22:38:20] <DanC>
so that should have a 'text' item as well as a '_' item
- [22:38:29] <hober>
also, strings are surrounded by double quotes in json, not single quotes.
- [22:38:30] <kingryan>
ok
- [22:38:42] <bewest>
for awhile I was thinking of something like http://www.dichotomize.com/czmap/hcard_structure.js but it's probably a bit overdone as well
- [22:38:54] <hober>
(It's not just the ^u that's wrong with u'foo')
- [22:39:27] * DanC was hoping folks would excuse/ignore the pythonisms when discussing this JSON stuff
- [22:39:32] <mfbot>
[[hlisting]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting&diff=0&oldid=7734 * Tantek * (+30)
- [22:39:33] <hober>
:)
- [22:40:23] <kingryan>
bewest: I agree, overkill
- [22:40:30] <bewest>
:-)
- [22:40:42] <kingryan>
for this, I'd like to have the simplest possible structure that can work as JSON
- [22:40:49] <kingryan>
(and hopefully be YAML compatible)
- [22:41:35] <bewest>
why is the u'' needed again?
- [22:41:52] <DanC>
u'' is needed because python was designed in the pre-unicode era
- [22:42:01] <KevinMarks>
well, kinda
- [22:42:08] <bewest>
but why is it needed with json?
- [22:42:12] <hober>
it's not.
- [22:42:13] <KevinMarks>
it isn't
- [22:42:15] <DanC>
it's not needed with josn
- [22:42:19] <DanC>
all together now!
- [22:42:23] <hober>
:)
- [22:42:24] <bewest>
:-)
- [22:42:44] <bewest>
so what's wrong with a simple nested hash?
- [22:43:14] <DanC>
well, sometimes the organization-name is in vcard['org'] and sometimes it's in vcard['org']['organization-name']
- [22:43:29] <DanC>
my design decision was to always put it in vcard['org']['organization-name']
- [22:44:08] <DanC>
perhaps fields like fn don't need the 'text' thing, but for regularity sake, it seemed easier.
- [22:44:37] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
- [22:45:21] <DanC>
hmm... in javascript, you can just write vcard.org , can't you? are -'s allowed in javascript identifiers?
- [22:45:34] <DanC>
(oops; I meant to leave javascript/python foo out of this discussion)
- [22:46:50] <hober>
you can write vard.org or vcard['org'] in js; if org were %^#$@ instead, you could still vcard['%^#$@'], but not vcard.%^#$@.
- [22:47:31] <DanC>
ah. tx.
- [22:47:38] <bewest>
hmm
- [22:47:51] <bewest>
the approach in js is to normalize names using camelCase
- [22:48:05] <bewest>
foo-bar becomes fooBar
- [22:48:13] <bewest>
I can't think of any exceptions, currently
- [22:48:17] <DanC>
is that actually supported at runtime?
- [22:48:23] <bewest>
except the class attribute which became className
- [22:48:27] <bewest>
no, it's a design decision
- [22:48:30] <bewest>
but it's very very consistent
- [22:48:38] <DanC>
i.e. does vcard.fooBar work just like vcard['foo-bar']?
- [22:48:42] <bewest>
no
- [22:48:44] <DanC>
ah
- [22:50:32] <DanC>
camelCase is a documented convention in RDF-land too. I'm still mulling over what to do for rdf calendar vs hCalendar for stuff like LAST-MODIFIED
- [22:51:05] <DanC>
I lean toward the hCalendar style, since I think more people have learned it.
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- [22:55:08] <DanC>
hmm... 6 minutes to family time... I don't see any must-do-today tasks left, though I have 2 blog items in mind. I guess they'll wait for later.
- [23:02:23] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.31-221.clta.globetrotter.net) Quit ()
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- [23:06:33] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [23:11:49] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
- [23:19:21] <bewest>
DanC: oh, I meant to ask you: did you participate in documentation or implementation of erm urllib or urllib2 module for python?
- [23:19:36] <bewest>
hmm he's probably gone
- [23:19:49] <bewest>
but I saw a reference to ~connolly in the docs
- [23:31:04] * deanero (n=dean@66.239.39.109.ptr.us.xo.net) Quit ()
- [23:32:35] <csarven>
tantek http://tantek.com/presentations/2006/03/building-blocks/
- [23:34:53] <csarven>
anchors prev and next have colour set to black. doesn't display on slides with black background
- [23:35:15] <tantek>
i didn't want them to
- [23:36:11] * bewest guesses there's a :hover rule without looking
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- [23:45:45] <mfbot>
[[hlisting-proposal]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-proposal&diff=0&oldid=7735 * Rohit * (+4) Simple Listing -
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- [23:50:23] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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