IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-08-07
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:40:59] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [02:00:40] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
- [02:32:04] * briansuda looks around
- [02:34:39] <briansuda>
I think there is a discrepancy on the wiki, i just wanted to check with folks before i fixed anything.
- [02:35:17] <briansuda>
on the http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring page, under "other affiliations" it mentions that vCard seems to imply a model of a person only being associated with one organization
- [02:35:50] <briansuda>
on the http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-singular-properties page, ORG is not listed as a singlular property and can be used more than once, which is in conflict with the authoring page.
- [02:36:45] <briansuda>
that lead to the further discussion about when do you mark-up a person's ORG as its own hCard?
- [02:37:12] <tantek_>
briansuda, the authoring page is only a set of simple guidelines for folks
- [02:37:21] <tantek_>
it's certainly not comprehensive
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- [02:37:45] <briansuda>
can/should it be reworded?
- [02:43:58] <johnallsopp>
here is what I sent ot Brian to discuss
- [02:43:59] <johnallsopp>
<div class="vcard"><div class="fn">John Allsopp</div>
- [02:43:59] <johnallsopp>
<div class="org"><span class="title">Director</span>Westciv</div>
- [02:43:59] <johnallsopp>
<div class="org"><span class="title">Director</span>Web Directions</div>
- [02:44:26] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=8024 * IwaiMasaharu * (-411) sync: english: 15:05, 5 Aug 200
- [02:44:41] <tantek>
johnallsopp, that makes no sense unless you want your title showing up as part of the name of the org
- [02:44:52] <tantek>
brian, why does it need to be reworded
- [02:45:28] <briansuda>
i'm not sure "You can have more than one; converters will simply append them all in source order." is correct
- [02:45:49] <briansuda>
if you can have multiple ORGs, then there will be multiple ORG properties in the resulting vCard
- [02:46:16] <briansuda>
it also mentions that you should consider added affiliations into the TITLE propertye
- [02:46:39] <briansuda>
i was just wondering if that should be cleared-up
- [02:47:17] <mfbot>
[[Template:design patterns-ja]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:design_patterns-ja * IwaiMasaharu * (+588) based: english: 15:02, 5 Aug 2006
- [02:47:22] <briansuda>
johnallsopp, you could do <span class="title">Director</span> <span class="org">Westciv</span>
- [02:47:34] <johnallsopp>
Brian
- [02:47:46] <johnallsopp>
yes - though the association between title and organization is m,uch looser
- [02:47:53] <briansuda>
the tricky thing is that you will lose which TITLE is associated with which ORG
- [02:47:56] <johnallsopp>
in the former, it's direct
- [02:48:03] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=8025 * IwaiMasaharu * (+6) デザインパターン - Using -ja template
- [02:48:10] <johnallsopp>
mind you, if the org were in its own hCard it would make no sense
- [02:48:19] <johnallsopp>
as the title would belong to the orgs hCard
- [02:48:50] <briansuda>
correct, there is no scope if you nest hCards inside each other
- [02:49:06] <briansuda>
which is both a good and bad thing.
- [02:49:15] <johnallsopp>
and aboveall a reality
- [02:49:29] <johnallsopp>
Tantek is correct that this is saying the org is Director Westciv
- [02:49:31] <johnallsopp>
which is BAD
- [02:49:40] <johnallsopp>
cuase its not
- [02:49:58] <johnallsopp>
so it seems that the best we can do semantically is as you suggest Brian
- [02:50:57] <briansuda>
now, i would then assume that your vCard gets two separate lines, one for each ORG, and they won't be appended together.
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- [02:51:53] <johnallsopp>
yes, they would have the common parent of the root, but be distinct siblings
- [02:52:19] <tantek_>
huh?
- [02:56:04] <briansuda>
i don't know of any best-practice on when to mark-up data as a person, and when to mark it up as an organization when the person you are describing, has all work information.
- [02:56:51] <briansuda>
i guess as long as you have a contact name, then you are describing the person, if there is no name, then you are describing the organization.
- [02:58:35] <johnallsopp>
what I was raising with you was that as a common use pattern particularly for people is to mark up people as hCards, then it makes similar sense to mark up organisations as hCards
- [02:59:18] <johnallsopp>
now, if the organisation is in a persons vCard, is that a good idea, a bad idea, or not any different from when an org is not inide a persons hCard?
- [02:59:44] <tantek_>
briansuda, correct
- [02:59:52] <tantek_>
either you are talking about a person or an organization
- [02:59:58] <tantek_>
once you figure that it is easy
- [03:00:03] <johnallsopp>
tantek
- [03:00:06] <johnallsopp>
its a person
- [03:00:14] <johnallsopp>
with org details inside
- [03:00:25] <tantek_>
simple answer - just use one hCard
- [03:00:30] <johnallsopp>
so the issue is, shoudl that org become an embedded hCard?
- [03:00:35] <tantek_>
that handles the 80%+ case very nicely
- [03:00:39] <tantek_>
why?
- [03:00:45] <tantek_>
what is the advantage of the added complexity?
- [03:00:52] <johnallsopp>
because it is a person or organisation
- [03:01:40] <tantek_>
how is an org a person or organization? your answer makes no sense
- [03:01:59] <briansuda>
johnallsopp, you want to write the data once, use all of it to generate a PERSON vCard, then is 80% of it (sans the name) to generate an ORGANIZATION vCard as well?
- [03:02:26] <briansuda>
and get 2 vCards from one thing
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- [03:03:15] <johnallsopp>
tantek - the org, in the example say westciv IS an organisation
- [03:03:19] <johnallsopp>
its who I work for
- [03:04:55] <johnallsopp>
I appreciate it adds complexity to the hCard - an embedded uf, but if have cases where we do mark up organisations as hCards, and others where we don't (because we have an org inside an hCard) then that's also complex - just a different kind of complexity
- [03:05:31] <tantek_>
no not really
- [03:05:39] <tantek_>
hierarchical complexity is always worse
- [03:05:46] <tantek_>
flat is better nearly always
- [03:05:52] <tantek_>
briansuda is correct
- [03:06:00] <tantek_>
just make two hCards and you're done
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- [03:07:13] <tantek>
you will likely find that having multiple hCards matches content publishing/iterating patterns better as well
- [03:07:30] <tantek>
you'll want to add some note or category to the org which don't necessarily apply to the person
- [03:07:40] <tantek>
and then if they're separate that's easy
- [03:07:46] <tantek>
if not, you end up having to redo a bunch
- [03:07:51] <tantek>
the two are loosely coupled
- [03:07:53] <johnallsopp>
that does make sense sure
- [03:08:01] <johnallsopp>
and its easier to write about ;-)
- [03:08:05] <tantek>
it's less work over time
- [03:08:09] <tantek>
= lower barriers
- [03:08:13] <tantek>
= greater adoption
- [03:08:31] <tantek>
there are folks that try to make insane hierarchical structures for information
- [03:08:47] <tantek>
and just how successful are they with getting their structures adopted? very little.
- [03:08:51] <briansuda>
you can always use some of the include pattern to get the data from different sources, that saves some duplication in the HTML and makes it flexible to change in the future as well
- [03:09:07] <tantek>
even something as simple as folksonomy vs. taxonomy has taught us that flatter is better
- [03:09:11] <tantek>
in terms of ease of use
- [03:09:13] <tantek>
in terms of adoption
- [03:09:19] <johnallsopp>
one of the reasons I am being a bit of a pita about these seemingly little things is I want to make sure I cover things that need covering, and know what NOT to cover too in the book
- [03:09:21] <tantek>
in terms of the richness of the data generated and published
- [03:09:36] <johnallsopp>
I hope that makes sense
- [03:09:44] <tantek>
isn't it obvious to not bother with covering complex cases in a first book?
- [03:09:56] <tantek>
when there are so many simple cases to cover?
- [03:10:08] <johnallsopp>
it depends on the approach of the book
- [03:10:09] <tantek>
use a breadth first approach rather than depth first
- [03:10:20] <tantek>
and you won't ever have to deal with questions like these
- [03:10:25] <tantek>
until at least a second book or edition
- [03:10:31] <johnallsopp>
but in covering the breadth of the vCard specification...
- [03:13:40] <mfbot>
[[press-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-ja&diff=0&oldid=8026 * IwaiMasaharu * (+219) sync: english: 18:48, 5 Aug 2006
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- [03:15:41] <tantek>
johnallsopp, i'm not sure it is useful to web authors to cover the breadth of vCard RFC2426
- [03:15:51] <tantek>
or did you mean to say hCard specification?
- [03:15:52] <johnallsopp>
Tantek
- [03:15:55] <johnallsopp>
I do agree
- [03:16:04] <johnallsopp>
but the issue for me is where to start and stop
- [03:16:12] <tantek>
seriously, both vCard and iCalendar RFCs take *a lot* of patience to read through.
- [03:16:25] <tantek>
And I'm still picking out details from them.
- [03:16:26] <johnallsopp>
you bet!
- [03:16:48] <johnallsopp>
don't start on agent - I just decided to leave that out altogether :-)
- [03:16:57] <tantek>
and darnit, I wish I had read them back in 1998-1999 and come up with some of this sooner. :(
- [03:17:17] <tantek>
agent is not as bad as organizer/attendee in iCalendar
- [03:17:27] * briansuda noddes
- [03:18:26] <johnallsopp>
thanks Tantek - something to look forward to later in the week
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- [03:21:57] <tantek>
johnallsopp, your question about hCard nesting for org should be added to hcard-issues page on wiki
- [03:22:10] <tantek>
we should at least explore it and clarify it one way or another
- [03:22:16] <tantek>
even if it doesn't apply to most authors
- [03:22:21] <johnallsopp>
I'll do that asap
- [03:22:28] <tantek>
thanks
- [03:22:31] <johnallsopp>
thanks or taking the time to look at it
- [03:22:53] <johnallsopp>
funnily it will save me a lot of time to not have to address it in the book
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- [04:07:55] <tantek>
johnallsopp, that's what we're here for! to save you a lot of time. :)
- [04:08:40] <johnallsopp>
I certainly appreciate it 0- cause then I spent more time on the stuff that matters - thanks - off to finish my hCard chapter draft
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- [04:28:50] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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[[design-patterns-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/design-patterns-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+43)
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[[Template:design patterns-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:design_patterns-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+688)
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[[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=8027 * ChristopheDucamp * (-592) Design Patterns -
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[[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=8028 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3) Design Patterns -
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[[press-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-fr&diff=0&oldid=8029 * ChristopheDucamp * (+209)
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[[press-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-fr&diff=0&oldid=8030 * ChristopheDucamp * (+4)
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[[press-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-fr&diff=0&oldid=8031 * ChristopheDucamp * (-4) Mai -
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Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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[[hreview-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-fr&diff=0&oldid=8032 * ChristopheDucamp * (+10) Détails des Champs -
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[[hreview-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-fr&diff=0&oldid=8033 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2) Plus d'Equivalents Sémantiques -
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[[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=8034 * Bill Humphries * (+479) Examples in the wild -
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[[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=8035 * Bill Humphries * (+448) WordPress -
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[[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=8036 * Bill Humphries * (-70) Examples in the wild -
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tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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[[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=8037 * Bill Humphries * (+201)
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trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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?def drewm is drewinthehead
- [08:08:02] <jibot>
drewm is drewinthehead
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McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
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mornin' McNulty
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morning
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- [10:03:57] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [10:48:21] <drewm>
quiet today :)
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- [10:49:45] <trovster>
shsss
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- [11:47:14] <trovster>
I wonder who johnallsopp could be...?
- [12:03:05] <johnallsopp>
http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/
- [12:03:09] <johnallsopp>
:-)
- [12:03:32] <johnallsopp>
http://westciv.com
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gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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drewm is drewinthehead
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sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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- [13:15:50] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [13:21:48] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
- [13:21:49] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [13:58:55] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [13:59:07] <factoryjoe>
sup pnhChris
- [13:59:34] <pnhChris>
nothin' yet
- [13:59:47] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [14:02:24] <drewm>
been low-key here today
- [14:02:35] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
- [14:02:36] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [14:04:20] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
- [14:18:12] * Phae (n=Chatuser@212.2.31.157) has joined #microformats
- [14:18:13] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
- [14:24:00] * henrichP (n=Miranda@svs15.informatik.uni-hamburg.de) Quit ("Go")
- [14:25:08] <drewm>
i wish hAtom didn't require any dates
- [14:25:19] <drewm>
makes it so limited
- [14:25:34] <trovster>
It's funny how updated is required, whereas created isn't
- [14:26:49] <Phae>
Dates seem like a fair enough thing to include though.
- [14:27:00] <Phae>
anything you stick up on the web is there for the first time at a certain time
- [14:28:07] <Phae>
trovster: I was saying that a couple weeks ago. They made it make sense.
- [14:28:12] <drewm>
what if the items are all dynamically generated and so all have a date of now()
- [14:28:24] <Phae>
I don't recall how though. :) I still think published should be required over updated.
- [14:29:08] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
- [14:29:14] <trovster>
<abbr class="created updated">today</abbr> :D
- [14:29:39] <drewm>
those silver-tongued microformateers, Phae
- [14:29:44] <Phae>
I know.
- [14:29:49] * Phae shakes fist.
- [14:30:09] <Phae>
Chris was saying something about if he had an old page.. and didn't recall creation date..
- [14:30:13] <Phae>
then it'd just be updated
- [14:30:15] <trovster>
It's something to do with converting it to Atom, but it still doesnt make sense to have updated required and not created
- [14:30:20] <Phae>
but it doesn't feel that watertight
- [14:30:30] <pnhChris>
Phae: created is easy to lose
- [14:30:36] <pnhChris>
Phae: real easy
- [14:30:53] <pnhChris>
be it moving hosts clobbering real file dates
- [14:31:04] <pnhChris>
or redesigns
- [14:31:07] <Phae>
okay
- [14:31:08] <pnhChris>
or whatever else
- [14:31:13] <Phae>
It's okay if there's a decent reason.
- [14:31:17] <Phae>
It doens't bother me
- [14:31:19] <Phae>
heh
- [14:31:35] <pnhChris>
though i agree on dates in hatom.. just not sure how to go about things otherwise
- [14:31:49] <drewm>
i think no date = now()
- [14:32:09] <pnhChris>
to some extent I'd find it useful to be able to publish without dates... but it doens't 'feel' right
- [14:32:16] <pnhChris>
at least not in the most recent case i cared
- [14:32:35] <drewm>
implied-space-time-continuum-optimisation
- [14:33:04] <pnhChris>
http://placenamewhere.com/ where the presentation is rather minimialist... though have dates to use elsewhere and would if i wrote a proper feed view of the data
- [14:33:37] <pnhChris>
its a case of no-dates or perhaps display:none, which I'm not opposed to like some are
- [14:34:16] <pnhChris>
because I look at it just as the current layout calling for X information to be hidden / moved / highlighted whatever
- [14:35:27] <Phae>
"now" is a bit hard anyway
- [14:35:40] <Phae>
If you wanna get philosophical
- [14:36:04] <pnhChris>
One could also consider falling back to the date info on the entire page rather then items
- [14:36:31] <McNulty>
pnhChris - you mean the Date header in the HTTP?
- [14:36:36] <pnhChris>
aye
- [14:36:43] <pnhChris>
vs. now()
- [14:36:46] <McNulty>
Is that mandatory?
- [14:36:51] <McNulty>
(the header)
- [14:36:53] <pnhChris>
dunno
- [14:37:04] <pnhChris>
its not always accurate
- [14:37:18] <pnhChris>
but its better to me then now(), if its provided
- [14:37:21] * drewm laughs in the face of accuracy
- [14:37:23] <briansuda>
you shouldn't rely on the HTTP header, because what if the file is getting converted locally, not over HTTP
- [14:37:24] <drewm>
er ..
- [14:37:34] <McNulty>
HTTP isn't part of the document, though
- [14:37:55] <McNulty>
If I save some HTML into a DB/filesystem and retrieve it later it needs to keep that kind of info
- [14:38:42] <pnhChris>
we're already talking worst case of no date info provided with the immediate content but Atom needing it
- [14:39:04] <pnhChris>
I wouldn't see the harm in trusting whatever db+parsing system was outputting over something like now()
- [14:39:05] <McNulty>
date=now() seems simpler than date=http-date OR now()
- [14:39:08] * pnhChris shrugs
- [14:39:27] <pnhChris>
but you lose good data for the occations its been good
- [14:39:33] <McNulty>
you do get feeds that don't have dates in at all
- [14:39:43] <McNulty>
but they might not be appropriate for Atom
- [14:41:38] <McNulty>
e.g. Last.FM have a 'most popular artists' feed that is a sort of top 20 list
- [14:41:53] <McNulty>
I don't believe they include date items, but they present it as RSS.
- [14:41:59] <drewm>
that's a good example, McNulty
- [14:42:09] <drewm>
it doesn't make sense to have any date on those items
- [14:42:34] <McNulty>
drewm - It might be that the answer is 'that list isn't a suitable use of Atom' though
- [14:42:40] <Phae>
Surely the top 20 is wekly
- [14:42:43] <Phae>
weekly*
- [14:42:46] <Phae>
or something, and that's the date
- [14:42:50] * McNulty goes to look at the feed
- [14:42:51] <drewm>
could be live, Phae
- [14:43:11] <drewm>
the situation i have in mind, the data is live ... as in the moment you loaded the page
- [14:43:20] <Phae>
But it'll be the top 20 as off XXtime
- [14:43:29] <drewm>
now() :)
- [14:43:39] <Phae>
heh
- [14:43:41] <Phae>
okay okay
- [14:43:43] <Phae>
:P
- [14:44:27] <McNulty>
Looks like I remembered wrong, they don't do their top 20s as RSS
- [14:44:29] <drewm>
i don't want to get into the situation of having to generate the current date/time and output it nonsensically just for the benefit of hAtom
- [14:44:31] <McNulty>
they do it as 'other XML feed'
- [14:44:32] <pnhChris>
no.. not now()... whenever the original html was built... thus my thought taking the http headers if avail
- [14:44:53] <McNulty>
they only do RSS feeds of stuff that has a clear time element
- [14:45:18] <pnhChris>
but whatever
- [14:45:21] <Phae>
heh
- [14:45:28] <pnhChris>
i don't realy have a horse in this race
- [14:45:46] * drewm doesn't have a horse, but he'd like a pony
- [14:46:05] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
- [14:46:06] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
- [14:46:08] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
- [14:46:12] <McNulty>
del.icio.us's feeds of bookmarks seem to use the time that bookmark was first added
- [14:46:26] <McNulty>
which is distinct from the order in the list...
- [14:46:30] <pnhChris>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eric/8850/
- [14:46:54] <McNulty>
I wonder how many feed readers actually reorder stuff by date rather than presenting it in the order the feed uses
- [14:47:15] <pnhChris>
i'm sure a few
- [14:47:27] <factoryjoe>
NNW allows your to choose
- [14:47:52] <pnhChris>
i can order thigns in NNW by any 'coumn' i want... not to mention having "groups" of feeds where items from multiple feeds are mushed together
- [14:48:05] <drewm>
i sort by date, because i tend to munge feeds together in groups
- [14:48:13] <drewm>
:)
- [14:48:43] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
- [14:48:56] <pnhChris>
i'm sorta half in groups and half out
- [14:49:29] <dglazkov>
hello worlds
- [14:49:45] <drewm>
is atom biased towards date-ordered data?
- [14:50:40] <drewm>
i guess with atom each entry stands on its own
- [14:50:56] <drewm>
so perhaps a feed of a top 20 chart is unsuitable
- [14:51:07] <pnhChris>
i would think the same of RSS
- [14:51:11] <McNulty>
I'm sure there are other, more suitable formats.
- [14:51:44] <pnhChris>
though a top 20 chart is very much time sensitive
- [14:51:56] <McNulty>
it's not really time-sensitive per entry
- [14:52:05] <pnhChris>
sure it is
- [14:52:08] <drewm>
as a whole
- [14:52:16] <pnhChris>
as individual content objects
- [14:52:34] <drewm>
but the time difference between entries isn't important ... yet the order of entries is
- [14:52:35] <McNulty>
I mean the entries don't have uncoupled time sensitivity, their times are only important in relation to the other items in the list
- [14:52:36] <Phae>
Time to work ttyl
- [14:52:37] * Phae (n=Chatuser@212.2.31.157) Quit ("Leaving")
- [14:52:37] <pnhChris>
"#1: Britney Spears"
- [14:52:46] <pnhChris>
is a measurement at a moment in time
- [14:53:03] <McNulty>
ah, ok
- [14:53:15] <drewm>
yes, around 1997 ;)
- [14:53:51] <pnhChris>
i meant her drunk/high/whatever youtube video :P
- [14:53:55] <pnhChris>
but yes
- [14:55:12] <pnhChris>
even things like my netflix feeds
- [14:56:22] <McNulty>
Is there a different 'lists of stuff' format that might be better?
- [14:56:30] <pnhChris>
shipment/returns notifications clearly have specific times
- [14:56:40] <McNulty>
The Atom format to me implies timestamped authored items
- [14:56:41] <pnhChris>
but the queue ordering is also time sensitive
- [14:57:15] <McNulty>
Also are we talking about the scope of Atom, or are we talking about hAtom?
- [14:57:56] <pnhChris>
i think the point was, are there things where hAtom isn't good because of ties to Atom or assumptions made based off of Atom
- [14:58:28] <pnhChris>
like the case of wanting to use hAtom a feed but not having dates avaiable for /whatever/ reasons
- [14:58:40] <McNulty>
The hAtom spec even talks about taking the minimal number of elements from Atom needed for a 'blog post' microformat
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- [15:38:47] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [15:44:47] <drewm>
Tails even labels hAtom entries as 'blog posts'
- [15:44:54] <drewm>
that's bad bad bad :)
- [15:45:59] <pnhChris>
maybe i'd be more inclined to care about tails if i used firefox
- [15:46:50] <pnhChris>
(for more then just its dev tools)
- [15:47:47] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
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- [15:50:13] <trovster>
But it's nice that hReview works with include now!
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- [16:21:39] <drewm>
in tails, trovster?
- [16:22:26] <trovster>
yup
- [16:22:57] <drewm>
oo
- [16:23:03] <drewm>
a.include?
- [16:23:25] <trovster>
Preliminary support IIRC
- [16:24:06] <drewm>
cool
- [16:24:15] <drewm>
still need a few more screen reader tests on that
- [16:24:58] <tantek_>
how are those tests going?
- [16:25:03] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
- [16:25:03] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [16:25:10] <tantek>
are the test cases documented on the wiki?
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- [16:25:11] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [16:26:17] <trovster>
http://blog.codeeg.com/2006/08/05/tails-release-032/ re: 'Added support for the include microformat pattern'
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- [16:27:37] <tantek>
trovster, that's awesome
- [16:28:04] <trovster>
I know, especially since I was asking for support so I could check a page doing exactly that include
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- [16:30:35] <tantek>
especially love the open sourcing with the MIT license. very cool.
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- [16:36:20] <drewm>
sorry .. back now
- [16:36:45] <drewm>
tantek: http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern-feedback#Hyperlink_Include_-_Screen_Reader_Testing
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amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
- [17:33:00] <trovster>
http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/07/live-from-wwdc-2006-steve-jobs-keynote/ is fun, btw.
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- [17:33:18] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
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[[hatom-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-fr&diff=0&oldid=8038 * ChristopheDucamp * (+469) Exemples dans la jungle -
- [17:53:30] <mfbot>
[[algorithm-nearest-in-parent-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/algorithm-nearest-in-parent-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+613)
- [17:54:55] <mfbot>
[[hatom-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-fr&diff=0&oldid=8039 * ChristopheDucamp * (+15)
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kingryan is ryan king
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[[implementations-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=8040 * ChristopheDucamp * (+7942) restoring content from previous version (page too big to edit safely)
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- [18:23:42] <jibot>
Enric is a media Software Developer and Videoblogger located at http://www.cirne.com
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[[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=8041 * ChristopheDucamp * (+504) WordPress -
- [18:29:24] <mfbot>
[[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=8042 * ChristopheDucamp * (+106) Google -
- [18:29:55] <mfbot>
[[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=8043 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) WordPress -
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[[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=8044 * ChristopheDucamp * (+104) Yahoo UK Movies -
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[[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=8045 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3) Scott Allan Wallick -
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- [18:46:07] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [18:50:38] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [18:54:16] <jibot>
bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
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ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
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- [20:07:52] <jibot>
_fil_ is co-author of SPIP (www.spip.net) and works on implementing microformats in it
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- [22:09:48] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [22:16:30] <drewinthehead>
hey
- [22:16:42] <kingryan>
hey drewinthehead, Phae
- [22:17:12] <drewinthehead>
Phae, did you see this? http://barcamp.org/BarCampLondon
- [22:17:33] <drewinthehead>
might be of interest to UK follks
- [22:17:51] <drewinthehead>
i've signed up to do something microformaty
- [22:20:59] <drewinthehead>
it'd be good to see some µF folks there :)
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- [22:25:04] <drewinthehead>
night!
- [22:25:11] <kingryan>
later, drewinthehead
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