IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-08-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:42] <bewest> too bad there's no key:value semantic that is wrapped in an atomic unit
  2. [00:01:14] <bewest> like an <dl><di><dt>key</dt><dd>value</dd></di></dl>
  3. [00:01:18] <bewest> I guess there's <table>
  4. [00:01:40] <bewest> but that's different, still
  5. [00:01:53] <_fil_> it's not a table, it's a list
  6. [00:02:09] <bewest> right
  7. [00:02:13] <_fil_> a list of pictures (my dog, my car, my computer)...
  8. [00:02:16] <_fil_> lol
  9. [00:02:22] <bewest> di = data item
  10. [00:02:30] <qid> well, you could consider it a table
  11. [00:02:42] <qid> columns being thumbnail, title, desc, etc.
  12. [00:03:43] <qid> tables for layout is bad, but tables for tabular data is absolutely correct
  13. [00:04:05] <_fil_> too bad I can't use longdesc
  14. [00:04:26] <qid> you could, it just would be invisible for normal users
  15. [00:04:49] <_fil_> no, because longdesc is the URI of the description
  16. [00:04:55] <_fil_> not the description itself
  17. [00:05:18] <qid> you could still use longdesc
  18. [00:05:58] <qid> is this a database-driven app or static HTML?
  19. [00:07:16] <_fil_> db
  20. [00:07:58] <qid> that makes it a bit easier... you could just add a page that displays the description for an image, www.example.com/images/<id>/description or something
  21. [00:08:04] <qid> and reference that in the longdesc
  22. [00:13:21] <_fil_> yes but it's going to be horrible to exploit with jquery/thickbox (for example)
  23. [00:13:53] <qid> you could have the description both on the page next to the picture and referenced in longdesc
  24. [00:14:01] <qid> it doesn't have to be one or the other
  25. [00:14:13] <_fil_> but i think <dl><dt><a><img></a></dt> <dt class="title">title</dt> <dd class="description">description</dd> </dl>
  26. [00:15:48] <KevinMarks> <dl> is your unit for key/value
  27. [00:19:09] <_fil_> yes
  28. [00:19:18] <_fil_> I lose the "list" meaning, but
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  33. [00:32:53] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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  36. [00:33:14] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  42. [01:49:47] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=8115 * Elias * (+849)
  43. [01:54:53] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=8116 * Elias * (+142)
  44. [01:56:09] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=8117 * Elias * (+48)
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  50. [02:16:26] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=8118 * Elias * (+187)
  51. [02:18:12] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=8119 * Elias * (+39)
  52. [02:29:48] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=8120 * Elias * (+161)
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  54. [02:31:14] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=8121 * Elias * (+0)
  55. [02:35:30] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-issues&diff=0&oldid=8122 * Elias * (+27)
  56. [02:49:36] <pnhChris> poking around this new porchlight bug tracking app... just the free 1 user thing... might be a good target for suggesting use of microformats (ala 37s)
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  59. [02:50:33] <pnhChris> but i can't figure out why, other then habit, they've gone and use javascript obfuscation on the email in the project specific users list page
  60. [02:52:00] <pnhChris> (here btw: http://www.porchlightnow.com/ )
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  62. [02:52:28] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  64. [02:58:20] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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  80. [05:25:58] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  83. [07:22:13] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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  86. [07:56:52] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  87. [07:58:50] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  88. [07:58:50] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  93. [09:40:47] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8123 * Jens Brueckmann * (+128) New Examples -
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  99. [10:03:01] <cgranade> I had a question outside of the realm of microformats, but one that might be of interest to some of those here.
  100. [10:03:48] <cgranade> Would anyone be able to recommend where I might get someone to comment some rough ideas I had with respect to web standards?
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  105. [10:19:40] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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  109. [11:24:21] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8124 * HenrichP * (+209) Examples in the wild -
  110. [11:32:58] <trovster> drewinthehead: I'm starting a new trend, are ya with me?
  111. [11:36:57] <drewinthehead> alas, not enough warning
  112. [11:37:10] <trovster> Maybe next week :)
  113. [11:37:14] <drewinthehead> where does one buy a check shirt?
  114. [11:37:36] <trovster> One may purchase a check shirt from a retail outlet or online via this thing called e-commerce.
  115. [11:38:10] * drewinthehead is suspicious of such newfangled technologies
  116. [11:45:46] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  117. [11:45:47] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  121. [12:12:07] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  124. [12:27:10] <drewinthehead> trovster: how about a clothing description microformat for syndication to help prevent people showing up to parties all wearing the same thing?
  125. [12:28:13] <drewinthehead> can be awkward ... http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/170522790/
  126. [12:28:37] <trovster> heh
  127. [12:55:44] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  128. [12:55:44] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  133. [13:21:55] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  138. [14:00:45] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  139. [14:00:46] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
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  141. [14:16:22] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8125 * Brickski * (+205) Examples in the wild -
  142. [14:17:18] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8126 * Brickski * (+22) Examples in the wild -
  143. [14:24:49] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  144. [14:24:49] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  145. [14:25:10] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8127 * Phae * (+76) Examples in the wild - added David Singletons page by request
  146. [14:29:19] <briansuda> sreynen, i saw your comment about Query String Length and issues with "piping" urls together
  147. [14:29:38] <sreynen> yes?
  148. [14:29:44] <briansuda> i know there is a limit, but is that server specific, or does the GET request spec make it explicit?
  149. [14:29:55] <briansuda> all the info i found mentions a 32K limit
  150. [14:29:58] <sreynen> i think GET
  151. [14:31:26] <sreynen> i just ran into it a few days ago, but i'm not sure if my server or my browser was presenting the "too long" message
  152. [14:32:26] <briansuda> much of the "piping"
  153. [14:32:37] <briansuda> can be internalized in some PHP or other code
  154. [14:32:49] <briansuda> each can be "pull" and stored in a local variable
  155. [14:33:20] <briansuda> that helps keep the query string shorter, and/or you can use TinyURL
  156. [14:33:28] <sreynen> yeah, or something like tinyurl can be used, but then you can't look at the URL and see what's going on
  157. [14:34:09] <briansuda> right. the "loosely coupled" ablity is lost when you obsfucate things
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  160. [15:02:24] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  161. [15:08:25] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) has joined #Microformats
  162. [15:08:25] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
  163. [15:10:47] <sreynen> briansuda, "There are no limits mandated by HTTP specs. By default Apache limits it to 8k; for it to be more you have to change compile-time arguments, but you can lower the limit in normal config." from http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t164719-help-request-string-length-limitation.html
  164. [15:11:21] <briansuda> interesting and good to know
  165. [15:11:56] <sreynen> yeah, i had just assumed it was a spec, but apparently not
  166. [15:12:14] <drewinthehead> 8k seems like quite a lot
  167. [15:13:48] <drewinthehead> that's 8000 characters, isn't it?
  168. [15:15:16] <drewinthehead> although didn't some older browsers limit to 256 chars? (IE3 springs to mind)
  169. [15:15:17] <briansuda> 8 bits per char, how many bits per kilobyte
  170. [15:16:48] <drewinthehead> don't get mathematical on me, briansuda :D
  171. [15:17:05] <drewinthehead> is it 8 bits per char?
  172. [15:17:24] <drewinthehead> that'd make 8k around 1000 chars
  173. [15:17:40] <drewinthehead> 1024 perhaps ...
  174. [15:17:56] * drewinthehead has somewhere between 8 and 12 fingers - he's not sure
  175. [15:20:02] <drewinthehead> either way, i'd say 8k is a generous allowance
  176. [15:20:34] <evanpro> I think that Mozilla has a 2047 char limit
  177. [15:21:10] <briansuda> depends, you haven't seen the URLs i make: http://dannyayers.com/2006/08/14/uri-of-the-day
  178. [15:24:10] * drewinthehead points out that briansuda is the exception, to most rules.
  179. [15:24:30] * briansuda wants to change those rules
  180. [15:25:21] <trovster> So briansuda is the 20% ?
  181. [15:25:33] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  182. [15:25:48] <drewinthehead> i make that url around 1k, briansuda
  183. [15:26:01] <drewinthehead> you've got 7 to play with
  184. [15:26:12] <drewinthehead> back in a while.
  185. [15:26:16] * drewinthehead (n=mclellan@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) has left #microformats
  186. [15:30:39] <cgriego> so uri-of-the-day is the result of the web as a pipe?
  187. [15:48:05] <briansuda> KevinMarks, is http://pingerati.net/ stuck? there hasn't been a "Recently updated pages" change in days.
  188. [15:50:54] <sreynen> yes, cgiego, the URI is so long because it pipes data through several other URIs just like a unix pipe
  189. [15:51:08] <sreynen> as opposed to a tube, or a truck
  190. [15:51:38] <KevinMarks> the recently updated is, oops
  191. [15:51:43] <KevinMarks> I'll look at that
  192. [15:51:53] <KevinMarks> sorry briansuda
  193. [15:52:28] <pnhChris> don't get your pipes clogged!
  194. [15:52:38] <briansuda> these pipes are clean!
  195. [15:53:42] * pnhChris recognizes that just maybe the intorweb *is* a series of tubes
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  199. [16:19:09] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  202. [16:46:42] <cgranade> I had a question outside of the realm of microformats, but one that might be of interest to some of those here.
  203. [16:46:45] <cgranade> Would anyone be able to recommend where I might get someone to comment some rough ideas I had with respect to web standards?
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  206. [17:05:28] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  207. [17:05:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
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  211. [17:31:28] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  214. [18:05:07] <mfbot> [[xfolk]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk&diff=0&oldid=8128 * Kpenn * (+0) Introduction -
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  218. [18:31:55] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  228. [19:05:01] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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  236. [20:06:40] <jonna1> Hey guys. I'm having an issue with my hCard markup.
  237. [20:07:07] <jonna1> For the life of me I cannot seem to mark up an hCard that gets properly read by the parsers.. (i.e. The Tails Extension, tehcnorati web-service..etc.)
  238. [20:07:10] * jonna1 is now known as jonnay-work
  239. [20:08:07] <jonnay-work> http://portfolio.jonnay.net/contact/ is an example of my issue
  240. [20:09:23] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
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  243. [20:10:23] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  244. [20:10:26] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  245. [20:10:56] <jonnay-work> hey taktek, can I bother you for a few moments on a hCard address issue?
  246. [20:16:55] * lhalff (n=lhalff@adsl-67-113-14-165.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  247. [20:19:32] <jonnay-work> NM, it appears that the tails extension is the culprit.
  248. [20:19:46] <qid> instead of dom, I think you should use country-name
  249. [20:20:15] <qid> for the tel type, you should use abbr instead of span if you want the parser to read the value from title
  250. [20:20:56] <qid> the region should also be marked up as an abbr
  251. [20:21:22] <qid> email type same as tel type
  252. [20:21:45] <qid> otherwise it looks fine
  253. [20:23:58] <qid> is #13 an apartment number? there was some talk about that on the mailing lists recently I think, I'm not sure if it should go in extended-address or not
  254. [21:05:05] * valmont (n=chrishol@dsl092-043-004.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  255. [21:05:06] <jonnay-work> Thanks qid!
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  262. [21:56:52] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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  274. [22:52:37] <mfbot> [[citation-examples-markup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples-markup&diff=0&oldid=8129 * Mike * (+2131) add info about bibdesk's current HTML template
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  278. [23:18:54] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=8130 * Mike * (+314) added bibdesk default template info
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  290. [23:53:32] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)

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