IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-08-30
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:30:51] <mfbot>
[[media-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=8328 * DavidOsolkowski * (+192) Added Discogs
- [00:31:59] <qid>
is citation-examples focused just on written media (books, magazines, journals, laws, etc.)?
- [00:33:34] <briansuda>
qid, no, you could cite conferences, cds, dvds, etc
- [00:34:53] <qid>
oh
- [00:35:33] <qid>
what's the difference between media-info and citation again?
- [00:35:55] <qid>
I'm not sure whether discogs falls under one or the other or both
- [00:36:05] <briansuda>
it is a thin line that we are trying to corral together
- [00:36:29] <briansuda>
media-info might consist of more meta information
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- [00:36:45] <briansuda>
citation would be more how to identify it
- [00:36:52] <briansuda>
but it also has meta information as well
- [00:37:01] <briansuda>
it is a massive grey area
- [00:37:24] <qid>
awesome
- [00:39:26] <qid>
well, discogs only covers music, not citation or media in general, but they have probably dozens of pages of guidelines for submissions which essentially describe a format
- [00:39:53] <briansuda>
yeah
- [00:40:20] <briansuda>
there is alot to wade through and to make sure we don't contradict ourselves
- [00:42:04] <qid>
http://help.discogs.com/wiki/SubmissionGuidelinesCreditList <-- a lot to wade through, heh
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- [01:20:06] <tantek>
discogs is quite cool
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- [03:47:54] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [04:11:01] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [06:22:04] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [06:22:05] <jibot>
Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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- [06:29:51] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [07:54:48] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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- [07:56:18] <Whiskey_M>
'lo
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- [08:03:16] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [08:08:05] <drewinthehead>
mornin' all
- [08:13:54] <Whiskey_M>
morning Drew, how goes?
- [08:14:19] <drewinthehead>
not bad, back at work after a long weekend :)
- [08:14:32] <Whiskey_M>
start of a new year ;-)
- [08:14:41] <drewinthehead>
in a mild panic about preparing a mF presentation for the weekend
- [08:15:03] <Whiskey_M>
at Barcamp?
- [08:15:31] <Whiskey_M>
or another?
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- [08:25:32] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [08:37:34] <drewinthehead>
yeah, barcamp, Whiskey_M.
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- [08:45:13] <Whiskey_M>
shouldn't be too bad. There are the two camps which might cause trouble, designers with "why do I need to bother with semantics" which shouldn't be too many at a Barcamp and programmers like the guys last night (and to a certain extent me), with "why not just use XML" which you might get more of, but shouldn't be too bad
- [08:49:31] <Whiskey_M>
either way, I'll look forward to reading it when you publish it on your blog :)
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- [12:29:03] <Whiskey_M>
quiet day today
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- [12:30:32] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [12:41:27] <jibot>
WildFox is Mr. KDOM. Co-author of kdom, ksvg and kcanvas.
- [12:55:01] <briansuda>
drewinthehead, are you around?
- [12:55:09] <drewinthehead>
yup yup
- [12:55:28] <drewinthehead>
do those flickr profiles look fixed now?
- [12:56:05] <briansuda>
i haven't had a chance to check, i just woke-up
- [12:56:17] <briansuda>
do you mind responding to this: http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-August/005302.html
- [12:56:36] <briansuda>
i'm not sure what he is talking about?
- [12:56:44] <drewinthehead>
sure, i'll look
- [12:56:54] <drewinthehead>
anyway, yeah, i think flickr profile hcards are back in place
- [12:57:05] <briansuda>
cool
- [12:57:49] <drewinthehead>
that's a funny old email
- [12:58:12] <briansuda>
i'm pretty sure i said "it is not perfect"
- [12:58:22] <briansuda>
and that's a pretty edge case he brought-up
- [12:58:28] <briansuda>
and is he calling me a troll?
- [12:59:41] <drewinthehead>
yeah, i think he is
- [12:59:46] <trovster>
Maybe because it could be 'heh, look at this stupid tool, it tries to guess but it isn't 'perfect' heheh' sommat like that
- [13:00:43] <briansuda>
the crap i get when i try to be helpful
- [13:01:07] <trovster>
Tell me 'bout it :)
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- [13:48:41] <trovster>
http://uk.techcrunch.com/?p=21 woop, gitp got a mention (on the technorati search)
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- [13:51:06] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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- [14:07:56] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
- [14:10:34] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=8329 * AdamDarowski * (+266) Recent -
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- [14:38:01] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [14:44:56] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [15:06:35] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
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- [15:21:44] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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- [15:46:03] <Whiskey_M>
'lo
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- [15:50:39] <vmarks>
hi
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- [16:01:53] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [17:15:18] <briansuda>
It looks like Flickr DID add GEO microformats to images!
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- [17:25:33] <trovster>
briansuda: Where, exactly?
- [17:25:48] <briansuda>
http://flickr.com/photos/suda/166893458/
- [17:25:57] <briansuda>
it is hidden data, just seach for GEO
- [17:27:15] <trovster>
hmm, tails doesn't flag
- [17:27:44] <trovster>
The Organize on Flickr is being a little slow for me, just hangs a lot of the time.
- [17:28:04] <trovster>
It added the photos I had geotagged (correctly) but I want to add the ones I've added since, and it won't let me :(
- [17:31:25] <trovster>
Grrr hangs at 'Loading interface...' :@
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- [18:08:42] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
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- [18:09:37] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [18:13:46] <kingryan>
jibot: why so quiet?
- [18:14:09] * Whafro (n=alter@65.107.196.194.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
- [18:14:10] <jibot>
Whafro is M. Jackson Wilkinson, a designer/developer for Grassroots Enterprise in Washington, DC
- [18:14:33] <kingryan>
there you are, jibot
- [18:14:44] <Phae>
jibot is in #barcamp too
- [18:14:49] <Phae>
so it announces in there only
- [18:15:13] <Phae>
presumably because if you've got your channels on autojoin, you get there just before here :)
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- [19:17:12] <jibot>
Frederic is Frederic de Villamil from France and the guy formerly known as neuro` and blogs at http://t37.net
- [19:17:16] <Frederic>
Good evening
- [19:19:04] <huyhong>
hi
- [19:21:59] <Frederic>
Is there a publishing related microformat ? isbn, title, publisher... ?
- [19:22:36] <KevinMarks>
there is a lot of debate about citation formats
- [19:23:42] <Frederic>
I don't think about citation (or my English is really rusty), but just giving the infos about a book, a press article...
- [19:23:59] <Frederic>
If it's what you call citation then..
- [19:24:03] <KevinMarks>
http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-brainstorming
- [19:25:40] <Frederic>
That's what I'm reading
- [19:26:21] <Frederic>
Then it's just me English being rusty, thank you
- [19:28:21] <Frederic>
Can't I use one of those formats instead of the <cite></cite> in a hresume document ?
- [19:31:26] <briansuda>
hResume will use the hCite once it is all finished
- [19:32:57] <huyhong>
any ideas if media is going to be bunched into something like hMedia or separated per medium (audio, video, podcast, etc)?
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- [19:34:01] <Frederic>
huyhong: IMHO, a single media microformat would be the best
- [19:34:23] <Frederic>
Because media has a lot of common attributes
- [19:34:51] <Frederic>
And podcast is an audio media after all, videocast is video...
- [19:35:02] <qid>
briansuda: what about hReview?
- [19:35:22] <huyhong>
Frederic: i figured that much, its just a little hairy how to tackle the issue
- [19:37:31] <briansuda>
qid, what about it?
- [19:37:44] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [19:37:44] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
- [19:39:47] <qid>
briansuda: would you also be able to use hCite to identify something being reviewed?
- [19:39:58] <qid>
assuming that something is covered by hCite, obviously
- [19:40:22] <briansuda>
i don't see why not. It will require a small change to the hReview spec
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- [19:43:19] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [19:43:36] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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- [19:49:18] <qid>
http://pastebin.com/780021 <-- any suggestions on how I can get this marked up as part of an hcard?
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- [19:52:57] <kingryan>
qid: that looks like just an address
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- [19:53:41] <qid>
an address and a phone number
- [19:53:56] <qid>
wait a minute... hmm
- [19:54:07] <huyhong>
http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator ?
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- [19:55:36] <qid>
http://code.bulix.org/wg7n12-15321 <-- is this legal?
- [19:58:22] <tantek>
qid, that might work. interesting approach.
- [19:58:33] <tantek>
what does x2v do with it when you put it in an hCard?
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- [20:00:44] <drewinthehead>
is it somewhere wrapped in a root class, qid?
- [20:01:27] <qid>
http://acetylene.local/drop/test.html
- [20:01:30] <qid>
whoops
- [20:01:45] <qid>
http://acetylene.ath.cx:8080/drop/test.html
- [20:01:48] * Harry (n=advocati@82.153.37.36) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
- [20:01:55] <qid>
still waiting for x2v
- [20:02:10] <drewinthehead>
http://tools.microformatic.com/query/plain/hkit/http://acetylene.ath.cx:8080/drop/test.html
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- [20:02:14] <drewinthehead>
works for me
- [20:02:29] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [20:02:44] <qid>
cool
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- [20:03:50] <qid>
looks like x2v handles it as well
- [20:08:45] <huyhong>
does using rel-tag necessarily imply a directory structure for tags as http://somedomain.com/tag/tagvalue ?
- [20:09:27] <drewinthehead>
no, huyhong
- [20:10:02] <drewinthehead>
the only thing to make sure of is that the last segment of the address (without fragmnts or querystrings) is the tag value
- [20:10:05] <jibot>
Catspaw is Michelle Levesque & blogs at http://www.insanecats.com/ & Kazpah (A) on Eitrigg (US) on WoW & recently moved to SF & now assimulated by the borGoogle & *NDA* & is AKA the Google Hottie
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- [20:15:24] <huyhong>
drewinthehead: i see, thanks, now to convince the man to switch to seo urls ;)
- [20:15:30] <huyhong>
sef
- [20:15:58] <drewinthehead>
that's worth doing anyway :)
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- [20:20:46] <huyhong>
was microformats ever intended to restrict content? since its inheritly a great filtering mechanism?
- [20:22:17] <cgriego>
briansuda: I was looking at what you added to the rel-home-issues page about the W3C stuff. It looks like at the time they were thinking of 'home' as the default page for the browser.
- [20:22:52] <briansuda>
yes, it is not a known problem, but just needed to be documented as a possible issue
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- [20:23:08] <drewinthehead>
huyhong: the idea is to identify the content - what you then do with it is up for grabs!
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- [20:31:29] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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- [20:31:36] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [20:35:03] <huyhong>
is anyone working actively on hMedia or is it a long ways away right now?
- [20:41:25] <kingryan>
huyhong: I think it's been pretty dormant for awhile
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- [21:09:21] * DanC gets Nth reminder of #microformats office hours; tries madly to clear away other obligatoins
- [21:16:43] <kingryan>
good luck DanC
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- [21:51:19] <drewinthehead>
not holding up much hope for office hours this week, DanC :)
- [21:56:02] <DanC>
well, my desk is now relatively clear
- [21:57:45] <DanC>
let's see... my x2v hg repository is at 50:954244d1bd58 Jul 10...
- [21:58:52] <DanC>
2 changes since then... local-name() and KEY property. Aug 14 52:46196949e712
- [22:00:33] <DanC>
and my tests repository is at Jul 10 263:99c5c9abae69
- [22:00:56] <DanC>
13 changes since then... 276:f396ef5fc375 Aug 02
- [22:01:00] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
- [22:01:20] * briansuda thinks those are minor tweaks here and there, mostly a.include
- [22:01:42] <drewinthehead>
ah, good old a.include
- [22:02:02] <DanC>
and some hreview json stuff
- [22:03:56] * DanC peeks at the uf-discuss archive, without really hoping to keep up...
- [22:03:57] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.6/2006072814]")
- [22:04:44] * DanC is depressed at the slow progress of http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do#Dan_Connolly
- [22:05:45] <DanC>
"It is not a valid review yet" -- http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-August/005296.html
- [22:07:47] <DanC>
"From a data format design perspective, breaking strict containment is bad design, and is a known anti-pattern" huh? then why do microformats allow it in various cases? that seems like a "shut up and go away" FAQ answer.
- [22:07:57] <DanC>
(excerpting from http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-faq#nesting-properties )
- [22:09:15] <briansuda>
DanC, it is a wiki. Feel free to make corrections/additions
- [22:11:56] <mfbot>
[[hcard-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=8330 * DanC * (-114) if "breaking strict containment" were a known anti-pattern, a source should have been cited.
- [22:13:23] <DanC>
"Aug 30 deadline for hCite"... hmm where does that come from? (excerpting from http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-August/005289.html )
- [22:13:48] <briansuda>
I think Tantek made a suggestion that we make that a soft deadline.
- [22:14:18] <DanC>
I like plans/deadlines. I have been trying to look for them around here and hadn't seen any.
- [22:14:21] <briansuda>
http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-July/004984.html
- [22:14:31] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
- [22:15:37] <DanC>
I did some work on cite formats in the last week or so, on http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/misc/vita
- [22:16:18] <DanC>
briansuda, care to look at http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/misc/vita and see how far I am from whatever hcite norms are emerging?
- [22:19:02] <briansuda>
all of your class="author" will become class="author vcard" with all the hCard properties nested below
- [22:19:29] <briansuda>
your class="year" will become an ISO stamp, which technically as '2006' it is valid
- [22:19:50] <DanC>
I'm a bit schizophrenic, in the various bits of code I've written to generate bibtex from XHTML, on whether class="author" goes around all the authors or just one.
- [22:20:17] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:20:26] <briansuda>
then there is the big decision about will it be class="booktitle" or class="book"/class="fn" or <span class="type">book</span>
- [22:20:48] <DanC>
"book" is traditionally invisible.
- [22:21:13] <briansuda>
well, in the XSLT that converts hCite2BIB.xsl it can make all the authors a list or keep them individual - that is up to the XSLT
- [22:21:37] <briansuda>
there is some president with the hReview class="type" and all the hCard TEL, ADR, etc
- [22:21:40] <DanC>
is that a hypothetical hCite2BIB.xsl , or have you seen real code?
- [22:22:04] <briansuda>
vaporware at the moment, http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/X2C/
- [22:22:29] <DanC>
yes, TEL type=work seems somewhat analagous... except... "work" and "fax" are traditionally visible on business cards
- [22:23:05] <DanC>
ew... looks like I haven't checked in my code.
- [22:23:09] * DanC panics a bit...
- [22:25:07] <qid>
briansuda: precedent?
- [22:25:16] <briansuda>
the other pro/con of type=??? is that it does not have to be enumerated. class="???" does because we can't tell if class="blue-ray" is a style or a type
- [22:25:27] <DanC>
hmm... found a version of http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/misc/Makefile ... checked it in... but it doesn't have a vita.bib target
- [22:25:38] <briansuda>
qid, yes - spell check didn't catch that because it is a real word
- [22:26:46] <qid>
ok, just wanted to make sure I was understanding that
- [22:28:33] <DanC>
I think I was using http://www.w3.org/2004/04/xhlt91/xh2bib.xsl to make vita.bib from vita.html
- [22:29:28] <DanC>
yes, that seems to match the scratch version of vita.bib
- [22:30:01] <DanC>
... which contains author info such as: [[
- [22:30:03] <DanC>
author = {Tim Berners-Lee, Tim Bray, Dan Connolly, Paul
- [22:30:03] <DanC>
Cotton, Roy Fielding, Mario Jeckle, Chris Lilley, Noah Mendelsohn,
- [22:30:03] <DanC>
David Orchard, Norman Walsh, and Stuart Williams},
- [22:30:03] <DanC>
]]
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- [22:31:15] <briansuda>
DanC, i'll make a note of both the XSL and your vita
- [22:31:22] * briansuda has to dash
- [22:31:37] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ("gotta run")
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- [22:31:49] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [22:32:07] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [22:32:37] <DanC>
I actually wrote a recent item on the XSLT, brian. http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/130 "citing W3C specs from WWW conference papers" 25 Apr. darn. missed him.
- [22:33:05] <DanC>
well, I'm off to dinner too.
- [22:37:35] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("www.ie7.com It's Unreal TOURNAMENT 2007, learn 2 type ten more letters ffs!")
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- [22:53:28] * raxor (n=chatzill@68-65-87-196.snbrca.adelphia.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:53:28] <jibot>
raxor is in southern California, near LA
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- [23:00:36] * sheets (n=dsheets@31-33-99.wireless.csail.mit.edu) Quit ("Leaving")
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- [23:41:55] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
- [23:41:55] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
- [23:42:31] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
- [23:42:31] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on
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