IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-08-31
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:59:37] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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- [01:19:28] <mfbot>
[[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=8331 * Mike * (+196)
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- [01:20:44] <mfbot>
[[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=8332 * Mike * (+1) continue earlier reformatting to make structure more readable. Sorry about that last no-summary edit
- [01:21:45] <mfbot>
[[citation-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=8333 * Mike * (+12) Citation Mark Up in the Wild -
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- [01:23:31] <mfbot>
[[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=8334 * Mike * (+6) complete restructuring - no content change, just moved some URLs out of the headings so the TOC was more readable.
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- [02:33:44] <mfbot>
[[rel-license-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-license-ja&diff=0&oldid=8335 * IwaiMasaharu * (-9) 実装 - あまり一般的な日本語訳ではないのでWaSPの名前(固有名詞)を英語のままにした
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- [03:20:23] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [06:21:45] <Frederic>
morning
- [06:23:22] <musigny>
hello fred
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- [07:11:14] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [07:18:53] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [08:04:53] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [08:17:57] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-69c831677990ec9c) has joined #microformats
- [08:17:57] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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- [08:52:35] <Whiskey_M>
'lo
- [09:01:32] <drewinthehead>
mornin' Whiskey_M
- [09:05:53] <Whiskey_M>
how goes today?
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- [09:12:37] <drewinthehead>
oh not bad
- [09:12:45] <drewinthehead>
yourself?
- [09:20:49] <Whiskey_M>
not so shabby, got one of my guys playing around with hCalendar - http://newbury.redantdev.com/events/
- [09:21:44] <drewinthehead>
ah superb :)
- [09:22:24] <drewinthehead>
is that you, red ant?
- [09:22:45] <Whiskey_M>
I'm the technical director over here / there
- [09:22:53] <drewinthehead>
cool
- [09:23:00] <drewinthehead>
your contact page needs hCard ;)
- [09:24:06] <Whiskey_M>
if you're talking about red ant then we need a complete new site ours is so out of date it's got beyond funny - newbury will get one tucked in before live
- [09:31:20] <drewinthehead>
awesome
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- [10:33:50] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [12:11:32] <jibot>
ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
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- [12:13:21] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [13:03:22] <trovster>
http://aqualung.typepad.com/aqualung/2006/08/microformats.html -- hReview for blog entries...
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- [13:35:14] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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- [13:36:01] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
- [13:36:02] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [14:03:19] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
- [14:03:35] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
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- [14:17:24] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
- [14:18:02] <cgriego>
?forget cgriego is a front-end developer at RD2, Inc
- [14:18:02] <jibot>
I did not know cgriego was a front-end developer at RD2, Inc
- [14:18:14] <cgriego>
?forget cgriego is a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
- [14:18:14] <jibot>
I now only know that cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00)
- [14:18:35] <cgriego>
?learn cgriego is a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
- [14:18:36] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
- [14:19:13] <mfbot>
[[hcard-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=8336 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1)
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- [14:27:49] <mfbot>
[[rel-home-issues-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-home-issues-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1234)
- [14:28:25] <mfbot>
[[rel-home-issues-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-home-issues-fr&diff=0&oldid=8337 * ChristopheDucamp * (+4)
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- [14:29:31] <mfbot>
[[screencasts-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=screencasts-fr&diff=0&oldid=8338 * ChristopheDucamp * (+237)
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- [14:32:12] <mfbot>
[[podcasts-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts-fr&diff=0&oldid=8339 * ChristopheDucamp * (+409)
- [14:34:28] <mfbot>
[[podcasts-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts-fr&diff=0&oldid=8340 * ChristopheDucamp * (+360)
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- [14:36:39] <mfbot>
[[vote-links]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vote-links&diff=0&oldid=8341 * ChristopheDucamp * (-43) delete spam
- [14:37:40] <mfbot>
[[press-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-fr&diff=0&oldid=8342 * ChristopheDucamp * (+170)
- [14:42:21] <mfbot>
[[presentations-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations-fr&diff=0&oldid=8343 * ChristopheDucamp * (+547) ajout lien vers les présentations du barcampearth - compte rendu Frédéric de Villamil
- [14:42:47] <mfbot>
[[presentations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations-fr&diff=0&oldid=8344 * ChristopheDucamp * (+14) 2006 -
- [14:44:48] <mfbot>
[[events-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events-fr&diff=0&oldid=8345 * ChristopheDucamp * (+32)
- [14:46:19] <mfbot>
[[press-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-fr&diff=0&oldid=8346 * ChristopheDucamp * (+201) 2006 -
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- [14:53:21] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-fr&diff=0&oldid=8347 * ChristopheDucamp * (+488)
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- [15:11:27] <mfbot>
[[icons-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/icons-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+913)
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- [15:25:11] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [15:25:31] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [15:26:19] <Whiskey_M>
yay, I've just broken my senior developer :-) have I mised anything?
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- [15:30:29] <mfbot>
[[namespaces-considered-harmful-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/namespaces-considered-harmful-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+2206)
- [15:48:26] <mfbot>
[[events-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events-fr&diff=0&oldid=8348 * ChristopheDucamp * (+266)
- [15:49:22] <mfbot>
[[events-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events-fr&diff=0&oldid=8349 * ChristopheDucamp * (+13) Récents -
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- [15:56:18] <mfbot>
[[media-info-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=8350 * ChristopheDucamp * (+192) Musique -
- [15:59:29] <mfbot>
[[hcard-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=8351 * ChristopheDucamp * (-132)
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- [16:12:38] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
- [16:14:06] <mfbot>
[[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=8352 * Branden * (+154) Examples in the wild -
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- [16:24:19] <jibot>
WildFox is Mr. KDOM. Co-author of kdom, ksvg and kcanvas.
- [16:27:16] * bewest wonders if jibot is getting heralds mixed up
- [16:28:52] <mfbot>
[[hreview-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-fr&diff=0&oldid=8353 * ChristopheDucamp * (+215) Exemples dans la jungle -
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- [16:48:32] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [17:22:38] <jibot>
marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
- [17:23:14] <bewest>
hmm
- [17:23:20] <bewest>
any todo list uf?
- [17:23:40] <bewest>
more than just XOXO?
- [17:24:03] <bewest>
XOXO + priority, tagging, dependencies
- [17:24:50] <tantek>
bewest - take a look at reusing the VTODO vocabulary from iCalendar RFC2445
- [17:25:00] <tantek>
technically it is part of hCalendar until we decide it isn't
- [17:26:03] <bewest>
ah
- [17:26:08] <bewest>
hmmm
- [17:26:16] <bewest>
will put that on a personal todo list
- [17:26:25] <bewest>
I have to make meta-todo lists :-(
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- [17:50:29] * bewest longs for a service like evdb but for notes/todo/wiki
- [17:50:35] <bewest>
hmmm
- [17:51:50] <dardarsauce>
hosted or local?
- [17:53:42] <bewest>
as long as it's an ebdb-like web API that is irrelevant
- [17:53:48] <bewest>
maybe something with s3
- [17:53:53] <bewest>
along the lines of the S3 js wiki
- [17:54:03] <bewest>
something that allows PUT, GET, and POST
- [17:54:31] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
- [17:54:34] <bewest>
erm evdb
- [17:54:41] <bewest>
speaking of which where is hober?
- [17:55:32] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [17:55:33] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [17:55:38] <dardarsauce>
bewest: http://www.tiddlywiki.com/
- [17:55:40] <d4rr3ll>
hi, quick question re: hListing, which is correct? class="hlisting offer-sell" or class="hlisting offer sell"?
- [17:55:44] <dardarsauce>
til an api comes up
- [17:56:00] <d4rr3ll>
I'm not quite sure from the examples in the wiki
- [17:56:29] * ROBOd (n=robod@86.34.246.154) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [17:57:43] <bewest>
yeah
- [17:58:22] <yakk>
ponderous
- [17:58:27] <qid>
d4rr3ll: I suspect neither: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-faq#nesting-properties
- [17:59:04] * Phae (n=phae@bb-87-80-218-92.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [17:59:30] <qid>
and it looks like "offer sell" is correct
- [18:00:19] <d4rr3ll>
qid, but I shouldn't put then with the "hlisting" though?
- [18:00:34] <qid>
I think the example is also incorrect due to the nesting-properties requirement
- [18:00:41] <mfbot>
[[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=8354 * Ianloic * (+38) adding myself
- [18:00:44] <qid>
it does <div class="location vcard adr">
- [18:00:57] <qid>
the adr should probably be on a sub-element
- [18:01:17] <mfbot>
[[User:Ianloic]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Ianloic * Ianloic * (+144)
- [18:01:30] <qid>
d4rr3ll: yes, they should be nested in the hlisting
- [18:02:08] <d4rr3ll>
ok, so this would probably be better <div class="hlisting"> <div class="offer sell> .... ?
- [18:02:20] <qid>
yes
- [18:02:25] <d4rr3ll>
cool, thanks :)
- [18:03:11] * d4rr3ll checks if he can edit the wiki...
- [18:06:27] <Phae>
everyone can edit the wiki :)
- [18:06:47] <pnhChris>
if you can figure out the secretTM to registering
- [18:06:48] <pnhChris>
:)
- [18:06:54] <Phae>
shh!
- [18:08:14] * d4rr3ll wonders why 'darrell' is an invalid username?
- [18:08:30] * pnhChris whistles
- [18:08:32] <qid>
you have to use SillyWikiFormatting
- [18:08:38] * Phae coughs
- [18:09:04] * d4rr3ll is now completely confused
- [18:09:11] <Phae>
Try Darrell :)
- [18:09:28] <d4rr3ll>
clever
- [18:09:28] <pnhChris>
Try 380457123984701293847120934870129384
- [18:09:33] <bewest>
lol
- [18:09:45] * bewest hangs a "bash head here" sign and uses it
- [18:09:47] <pnhChris>
silly wiki
- [18:10:54] * d4rr3ll now has a wiki account 'D4rr3ll' :)
- [18:11:08] <Phae>
Is it still cool to use numbers in your name? :(
- [18:11:40] <d4rr3ll>
probably not, but too many people have the name 'darrell'
- [18:13:40] <yakk>
CapitalLetters
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- [18:17:59] <mfbot>
[[hlisting-extended-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-extended-examples&diff=0&oldid=8355 * D4rr3ll * (+177) hListing Extended Examples -
- [18:18:55] <mfbot>
[[hlisting-extended-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-extended-examples&diff=0&oldid=8356 * D4rr3ll * (+0) hListing Extended Examples -
- [18:21:59] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [18:21:59] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
- [18:22:36] <Phae>
evening drew
- [18:22:53] <drewinthehead>
evening Phae
- [18:23:14] <drewinthehead>
that was weird, i was literally just reading your blog in a different window ... a moment of confusion
- [18:23:27] <Phae>
hah
- [18:23:37] <drewinthehead>
my site's pink all year round :)
- [18:24:01] <Phae>
I know. It seems I have a lot of friends who already have pink sites.
- [18:24:48] <drewinthehead>
we're where it's at.
- [18:24:59] <Phae>
I tend to avoid the colour myself. I'm a green lover.
- [18:25:24] <drewinthehead>
there's a t-shirt slogan for you.
- [18:25:40] <Phae>
:)
- [18:28:48] <Frederic>
re
- [18:31:56] * MarkoMihelcic (i=mcposeid@83-131-203-204.adsl.net.t-com.hr) has joined #microformats
- [18:32:06] <MarkoMihelcic>
hi all
- [18:32:30] <Phae>
hello
- [18:32:47] * ROBOd (n=robod@86.34.246.154) has joined #microformats
- [18:32:57] <MarkoMihelcic>
a where's Tantek :S
- [18:33:54] <Phae>
I'm sure he'll be on soon.
- [18:34:06] <MarkoMihelcic>
gr8
- [18:34:12] <MarkoMihelcic>
tnx Phae
- [18:34:12] <MarkoMihelcic>
:)
- [18:34:16] <Phae>
m'k
- [18:34:37] <pnhChris>
probably out partying it up with some fabulous people and taking lots of pics :P
- [18:34:55] <MarkoMihelcic>
heh
- [18:35:00] <Phae>
He does seem to have his camera glued to him, eh?
- [18:35:06] <Phae>
And flocks of pretty ladies.
- [18:36:10] <qid>
I bet it's the cedilla that does it
- [18:36:11] <MarkoMihelcic>
indeed
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- [18:45:57] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
- [18:49:42] <MarkoMihelcic>
heh
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- [18:59:06] <Pos3idon>
.
- [18:59:06] * Pos3idon is now known as MarkoMihelcic
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- [19:01:32] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
- [19:03:04] <MarkoMihelcic>
web developper?
- [19:04:04] * dardarsauce (n=dardarsa@h4607c830.area7.spcsdns.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:05:48] <qid>
<qid> how do you spell the word "developer" in french? | <Cataclaw> développeur
- [19:06:59] <dardarsauce>
quick question, should all properties of a microformat always exist as a descendent class? ie <div class="hreview reviewer">name</div> is illegal?
- [19:07:31] <qid>
yes
- [19:07:53] <qid>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-faq#nesting-properties
- [19:08:01] <Phae>
yeah, for a start off, that would end your hReview format at that </div>
- [19:08:15] <Phae>
And leave no room for other descendents
- [19:08:19] <dardarsauce>
i'm trying to prevent divitis :/
- [19:08:32] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:08:32] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [19:08:34] <Phae>
Mark stuff up using the tags you would naturally
- [19:08:40] <Phae>
and then see if you actually need many extra divs
- [19:08:50] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [19:08:50] <Phae>
often you need like, one extra div and a couple spans at the most :)
- [19:09:03] <qid>
sometimes you have to be tricky about it
- [19:10:18] <MarkoMihelcic>
hello Sir Celik :)
- [19:10:20] <qid>
but it's better to mark it up nicely and follow the spec and make the parsers do the work
- [19:11:08] <gsnedders>
where does the surname Çelik come from anyway?
- [19:11:27] <Phae>
Some of the wiki examples might seem a bit misleading at first also, because the uF classes don't have to be on spans and divs. They can be on list items, or paragraphs
- [19:11:30] * dardarsauce (n=dardarsa@h4607c830.area7.spcsdns.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [19:11:31] <Phae>
or whatever you're using already :)
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- [19:22:55] <bewest>
man... tiddlywiki seems awesome
- [19:23:31] <Phae>
?
- [19:24:20] <bewest>
http://www.tiddlywiki.com
- [19:24:27] <dardarsauce>
it is
- [19:24:34] <dardarsauce>
kinda flashy but its cool
- [19:24:44] <bewest>
yeah, doesn't need quite so much animation
- [19:24:46] <dardarsauce>
good alternative to voodoopad
- [19:25:05] <Phae>
It does seem a bit fancy pants
- [19:25:16] <Phae>
I don't really know what I'd use it for. I had a backpack account and never used that either.
- [19:25:26] <bewest>
backpack sucks
- [19:25:31] <Phae>
It does.
- [19:25:31] <dardarsauce>
ditto
- [19:25:46] <dardarsauce>
writing stuff on your hand > backpack
- [19:25:57] <Phae>
It's just spaces on the web to put stuff, and if you have a website you use reguarly, it seems a bit random to use another service
- [19:26:06] <Phae>
And yeah, I'm a pen on paper lover. :)
- [19:27:13] <bewest>
I've seen a lot of "web os" or "web desktop" kinds of things
- [19:27:19] <bewest>
where they implement full windowing in the browser
- [19:27:22] <bewest>
and it's like.... WHY?
- [19:27:26] <Phae>
yeah
- [19:27:31] <bewest>
I think this tiddlywiki thing is the right approach
- [19:27:45] <dardarsauce>
bewest: for VC money :)
- [19:27:46] <bewest>
dereference any resource at any time
- [19:27:51] <Phae>
You're right about that site though. What's with the wooshy javascript slide? It's horrid.
- [19:28:02] <bewest>
it's ok
- [19:28:06] <bewest>
but could be better
- [19:28:12] <Phae>
It judders too much for my liking.
- [19:28:20] <dardarsauce>
webos will be cool one day if its a) faster, and b) only used on thin clients
- [19:28:21] <bewest>
but I see potential for uf interfaces and whatnot
- [19:28:25] <Phae>
I'm a bit sensitive to flickers, they irritate my eyeballs!
- [19:28:42] <bewest>
dynamically add maps and timelines and whatnot
- [19:29:01] <bewest>
get several lists from different resources and manipulate them in the same place
- [19:29:11] <bewest>
this is a better framework than the simile stuff
- [19:30:42] <bewest>
main problem with these animations is they take too long, they get slower near the end and start to choke, and they are a bit too dramatic
- [19:30:54] <dardarsauce>
i'm sure theres a way to turn it off
- [19:31:04] <dardarsauce>
there are powerusers for tiddly
- [19:31:24] <dardarsauce>
i'm not one, i hate using any app inside a browser window :)
- [19:31:25] <bewest>
what would be better is a small throb, with a pager that lets you zoom in/out through the page layout
- [19:31:54] <bewest>
dardarsauce: what if there were no applications... you turned on your computer and what you got was tiddlywiki-ish
- [19:32:03] <bewest>
no browser
- [19:32:11] <qid>
I'd run screaming from the room
- [19:32:16] <bewest>
meh
- [19:32:25] <dardarsauce>
thin clients are one thing
- [19:32:32] <dardarsauce>
which is fine for its purpose
- [19:32:44] <dardarsauce>
but given the choice beteween using firefox web dev bar to edit css vs. textmate
- [19:32:52] <dardarsauce>
fuck firefox :)
- [19:33:13] <bewest>
ah...
- [19:33:15] <KevinMarks>
I quite like CSSEdit
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- [19:33:34] <bewest>
I like squarefree's css edit and js shell and js env
- [19:34:57] <bewest>
I'd like to enter something like <span class="bug">484</span> in tiddly wiki and have it find and display controls for manipulating that bug from the bug database
- [19:35:23] <qid>
trac has that, kinda
- [19:35:36] <bewest>
well, I started on a system for it internally
- [19:35:49] <bewest>
but I think I might change direction and go the tiddly wiki rout
- [19:35:55] * MarkoMihelcic (i=mcposeid@83-131-203-204.adsl.net.t-com.hr) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [19:35:58] <qid>
you can reference a bug by just typing its id (with some symbol I think) and it converts it to a link to the bug
- [19:36:06] <bewest>
I don't mean a link though
- [19:36:13] <bewest>
I mean being able to directly manipulate the bug
- [19:36:17] <bewest>
add notes
- [19:36:22] <bewest>
close it, mark it as fixed
- [19:36:24] <qid>
well, that opens all kinds of complexity issues
- [19:36:39] <bewest>
it's not that complex if applictions implement evdb-like web api's
- [19:36:45] <bewest>
or use microformats
- [19:37:00] <qid>
suppose that bug has some wiki comment on it you want to edit, and the wiki comment includes a reference to a bug... pretty soon you can get yourself into a real mess
- [19:37:10] <bewest>
meh
- [19:38:05] <qid>
shortcuts like that can be nice, but you need to be really careful you don't overload the user with nested controls
- [19:38:12] <bewest>
anyway, I'd also like to use owl or something to declare what my data structures are, to automatically create the database storage engine, and also publish an evdb-like web api
- [19:38:36] <bewest>
anyone know of tools to do that?
- [19:39:06] <qid>
that sounds vaguely like something rails would do
- [19:39:11] <qid>
or could be made to do
- [19:39:13] <bewest>
yeah, I was also pointed to django
- [19:39:18] <bewest>
a buddy of mine is looking at hibernate
- [19:39:20] <bewest>
for java
- [19:39:30] <bewest>
but hibernate is java specific and provides java specific api, not a web api
- [19:39:42] <qid>
java for web apps is still just kind of ugly
- [19:40:05] <bewest>
qid: the only problem with that kind of nesting are transactional problems... what happens when while you are dereferencing a resource, something else delete is?
- [19:40:10] <bewest>
erm deletes it?
- [19:40:52] <qid>
that's a significant technical problem, I was talking more specifically about UI problems
- [19:41:45] <qid>
also keep in mind that ideally, the only person who should be able to close a bug is the person that opened it
- [19:42:21] <qid>
which is only a small part of what you're talking about but still something to keep in mind
- [19:42:27] * cori[s] (n=cori[s]@pdpc/supporter/active/CoriS) Quit ("Death before decaf")
- [19:44:00] <bewest>
ah, well the UI I'm picturing is similar to Jef Raskin's Humane Interface ideas combined with this tiddlywiki thing
- [19:44:37] <bewest>
zoom in/out, direct manipulation, monotous (as much as possible) interfaces, affordance
- [19:53:34] <KevinMarks>
dabbledb does stuff a bit like that
- [19:53:40] <KevinMarks>
though it is in smalltalk
- [19:53:42] <bewest>
dabbledb?
- [19:54:03] <KevinMarks>
http://dabbledb.com/
- [19:56:18] <bewest>
interesting
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- [20:02:04] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
- [20:02:30] * ROBOd (n=robod@86.34.246.154) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [20:06:52] <bewest>
hmmm
- [20:07:00] <bewest>
KevinMarks: do you have experience using dabbledb?
- [20:07:06] <bewest>
it's not clear what it /is/
- [20:07:09] <bewest>
is it a development tool?
- [20:07:12] <bewest>
and interface?
- [20:07:28] <bewest>
/and/an
- [20:07:54] <bewest>
does it use owl to create the internal ontologies?
- [20:08:41] <KevinMarks>
I don't know the details, but ti is another twist on the rapid schema toolkit
- [20:08:44] <bewest>
ideally I could publish an ontology using a visual programming language, and have a service like this take that deliverable, create the database/storage engine, and have confidence that it is exposed properly in a web api
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- [20:11:01] <bewest>
preferably it'd be open, too
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- [20:38:35] * danja (n=danja@host171-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) Quit ()
- [20:41:25] <bewest>
aha. evidently I want ORM across the ewb
- [20:42:49] * Advocation (n=advocati@82.153.37.36) Quit (Client Quit)
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- [20:46:50] <tantek>
?def ORM
- [20:46:50] <jibot>
Nobody has defined ORM yet
- [20:47:19] <drewinthehead>
object relational mapping or somesuch?
- [20:47:34] * drewinthehead makes blind guesses in public
- [20:48:56] <bewest>
yeah
- [20:49:11] <bewest>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-relational_mapping
- [20:49:24] <bewest>
persistent object graphs
- [20:53:18] <tantek>
?def ORM is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-relational_mapping
- [20:53:19] <jibot>
ORM is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-relational_mapping
- [20:56:05] * ROBOd (n=robod@86.34.246.154) Quit ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
- [21:01:42] * bewest has a silly question
- [21:02:02] <bewest>
when we talk about xml namespaces being bad, we mean new arbitrary homegrown namespaces, right?
- [21:02:23] <bewest>
not necessarily things like rdf and owl that serve different purposes
- [21:10:41] <bewest>
hmmm maybe xoxo.py + sqlobject
- [21:11:00] <tantek>
bewest, both
- [21:11:10] <tantek>
namespaces are bad because they encourage homegrowth
- [21:11:15] <tantek>
they encourage siloism
- [21:11:47] <tantek>
namespaces are bad for community
- [21:12:17] * basilcrow (n=bcrow@bootp-14.nicholson.brown.edu) Quit ()
- [21:13:01] <bewest>
hmmm
- [21:13:20] <bewest>
but owl and rdf is already done and there are no microformats to solve the kinds of problems they do
- [21:13:22] <pnhChris>
dickens:humbug
- [21:13:46] <bewest>
for example, how map object graphs
- [21:14:18] <bewest>
I suppose xoxo is somewhat sufficient
- [21:14:21] <yakk>
tantek is a hater
- [21:14:36] * pnhChris goes back to work
- [21:14:39] <yakk>
I need to make an "RDF is for lovers" tshirt
- [21:15:11] * pnhChris points at self and adds a haha of class simpsons:nelson
- [21:15:14] <tantek>
"RDF is for lovers of triples" would be funnier
- [21:16:04] <tantek>
bewest, lots of things are "done" which are solutions looking for problems
- [21:17:55] <yakk>
FOAF is totally useful.... for scraping livejournal...
- [21:18:31] * jcgregorio (i=chatzill@nat/ibm/x-5a4cb3be0a6076a4) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.5.0.5/undefined]")
- [21:22:11] <bewest>
tantek: are you suggesting that owl is a solution looking for a problem?
- [21:23:30] <tantek>
bewest, undecided on owl
- [21:24:11] <tantek>
i suppose part of the problem is there are so many more "obvious" problems that apply to many more people than the abstractions that seem to attract so much of the effort
- [21:24:21] <bewest>
hmmm
- [21:24:30] <tantek>
yakk, i find it ironic you use "scraping" and FOAF in the same sentence
- [21:24:40] <yakk>
tantek, *grin*
- [21:24:42] <tantek>
to me that means you're not really using the namespaces
- [21:24:48] <bewest>
I think most of the effort is spent writing and rewriting the same plumbing over and over again
- [21:24:49] <tantek>
other than as string literals
- [21:24:56] <tantek>
bewest, yeah
- [21:25:03] <tantek>
a lot of plumbingsturbation
- [21:25:15] <bewest>
because using URI's to do remote object graphing is a wild concept
- [21:25:22] <bewest>
whether or not it uses namespaces
- [21:25:22] <yakk>
tantek, I actually process it as RDF, but I walk the FOAF rdf to produce my own internal representation
- [21:26:05] <tantek>
something simpler perhaps?
- [21:26:39] <yakk>
I found opera's sparql engine today...
- [21:27:24] <yakk>
I'm experimenting with atom+microformats+opensearch a little
- [21:27:51] <bewest>
plumbsturbation
- [21:27:59] <yakk>
but everyone who is using atom pub to power non-blog content seem to be using their own namespaced xml :(
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- [21:45:12] <tantek>
"their own namespaced xml :(" - that is the essence of the problem with namespaces in a nutshell
- [21:48:55] * danja (n=danja@host171-220.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #microformats
- [21:48:56] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
- [21:54:01] <yakk>
tantek, yeah
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- [22:09:17] <drewinthehead>
oh look, it's me.
- [22:09:19] <drewinthehead>
hmm.
- [22:09:59] * drewinthehead_ (n=mclellan@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Client Quit)
- [22:12:29] <qid>
heh
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- [22:32:24] <jibot>
chimezie is Chimezie Ogbuji - He is a mammal
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- [23:13:58] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
- [23:13:58] <jibot>
ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
- [23:18:20] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
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- [23:26:54] <bewest>
interesting: http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/RDB-RDF.html is what I want to do... but with better URI's and with better data format...maybe XOXO
- [23:36:33] * bewest takes a look at DanC's dbview.py
- [23:38:10] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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- [23:58:12] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:58:13] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on
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