IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-10-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:12] <hober> tantek: he was even a recursive puppet at one point, when malkovich went into the tunnel
  2. [00:00:27] * SignpostMarv never saw the end of the film
  3. [00:00:30] <tantek> hober, indeed, and you saw how well that worked
  4. [00:00:51] <hober> Maybe we could use rel-include for that :)
  5. [00:01:08] <hober> or rather, object@class=include
  6. [00:01:48] <SignpostMarv> is an alias implied by "me", or should the relationship be more explicit ?
  7. [00:03:08] <SignpostMarv> (same goes for employer/employee/client/tenant/landlord outside the context of a hResume and hCal)
  8. [00:03:13] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  9. [00:03:13] <jibot> edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
  10. [00:04:52] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("Hel Fucking Vetica")
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  12. [00:11:41] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
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  14. [00:22:54] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  15. [00:34:19] * SignpostMarv wonders if everyone has fallen asleep
  16. [00:38:39] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=9543 * Chris Messina * (+171) added Blinksale
  17. [00:54:05] <SignpostMarv> comments on rel="puppet" vs rel="avatar" from another Resident of SL:
  18. [00:54:47] <SignpostMarv> In RL puppet/puppeteer is common, but fails to describe the relationship between the user and the avatar.
  19. [00:54:56] <SignpostMarv> [17:48] Tateru Nino: Basically, for most people in SL, the avatar is as the word describes it. An extension, or projection of the self.
  20. [00:54:56] <SignpostMarv> [17:49] Tateru Nino: "Puppet" is grieferspeak.
  21. [00:54:56] <SignpostMarv> [17:49] Tateru Nino: They don't have any attachment to the avatar, nor fully grasp that anyone else does either.
  22. [00:56:59] <tantek> I'd say it was quite an accurate/similar use in Being John Malkovich
  23. [00:57:21] <tantek> Cusack's character *definitely* used Malkovich as an extension of the self
  24. [00:57:39] <tantek> ?def grieferspeak
  25. [00:57:39] <jibot> Nobody has defined grieferspeak yet
  26. [00:58:03] * SignpostMarv is relaying chat back to SL
  27. [00:58:34] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@c-67-186-222-175.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  28. [00:59:20] <tantek> "projection of the self" is a bit of an exaggeration - as much as when you are playing any other videogame and controlling a character on the screen is a "projection of the self". SL just has more degrees of freedom. More puppet strings to pull on and joints to move.
  29. [00:59:40] <tantek> avatars are just hightech virtual puppets
  30. [01:00:06] <csarven> heh
  31. [01:00:15] <SignpostMarv> ^replies might take a while, Tateru is being interviewed (again)
  32. [01:00:30] <tantek> now when you upload/download your consciousness into other "vessels", then we can have this conversation about "the self" again
  33. [01:00:40] <tantek> c.f. Matrix etc.
  34. [01:04:07] <SignpostMarv> I think what Tateru was meaning is that the word "puppet" does not accurately describe the relationship between a natural person and their virtual persons
  35. [01:05:08] <SignpostMarv> [18:04] Tateru Nino: Heh. Nobody can define the self. Once we can figure out how to transfer it, I think we'll have a better notion of how puppet vs avatar paradigms relate to each other.
  36. [01:07:00] <SignpostMarv> no jokes about rel="me" please :P
  37. [01:25:34] <tantek> I think there may be a bit of antipuppetism going on here - there is no reason to consider puppets to be any less than a "virtual person" in SL. Puppets are often shaped to approximate human form, just as many SL avatars are. Any SLers that also do RL puppets?
  38. [01:26:49] <SignpostMarv> [18:26] Tateru Nino: I seem to remember hearing of at least one, but I don't know who.
  39. [01:29:30] * bradgarland (n=bradgarl@c-67-187-60-222.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  40. [01:29:31] <bewest> SL?
  41. [01:29:42] <SignpostMarv> Second Life
  42. [01:29:57] <SignpostMarv> [18:28] Tateru Nino: At the core, the human body is essentially a puppet for the self. Along more technological lines a car is both immersive and augmenting. Control of the car is generally unconscious, and reflexive. For many who have been here a while, an SL avatar is the
  43. [01:29:57] <SignpostMarv> [18:28] Tateru Nino: same.
  44. [01:32:54] <tantek> the human body is not a puppet for the self because you cannot transfer into / out of it
  45. [01:33:06] <tantek> therefore the analogy is flawed
  46. [01:33:31] <SignpostMarv> You cannot currently transfer it
  47. [01:33:48] <tantek> like I said, until you can upload/download your consciousness into other "vessels", then we can have this conversation about "the self" again
  48. [01:33:54] <SignpostMarv> Not counting out of body experiences, astral projection etc etc
  49. [01:34:00] <tantek> which are all fiction
  50. [01:34:14] <tantek> or rather
  51. [01:34:17] <SignpostMarv> there's a difference between fiction and that which has not been scientifically proven
  52. [01:34:18] <tantek> illusions in the first case
  53. [01:34:46] <tantek> out of body experiences have been explained by what the brain attempts to interpret at those moments
  54. [01:35:08] <tantek> astral projection is fiction
  55. [01:35:11] <SignpostMarv> explained, but not proven :-D
  56. [01:35:37] <tantek> hence why we stick to "real world example" :D
  57. [01:35:40] <SignpostMarv> [18:34] Tateru Nino: I think transferrance is unneccessary - a holdover of a traditionalist view of space - no offense :)
  58. [01:36:02] <tantek> if you can transfer in/out you can distinguish puppeteer/puppet
  59. [01:36:05] <tantek> if you can't, you can't
  60. [01:36:54] <tantek> it makes avatars much more like puppets than people
  61. [01:40:41] <tantek> I know it probably doesn't help SL marketing to think of SL as a shared world of virtual puppets, but that's essentially what SL is.
  62. [01:40:41] <SignpostMarv> [18:39] Tateru Nino: I think we'd need to spend some time getting our terminology straight for this discussion. You're using some key terms rather differently to how I would - and that's going to cause confusion up-front.
  63. [01:40:56] <SignpostMarv> Tateru would like you to email her :-D
  64. [01:41:17] <tantek> email is untenable for me unfortunately - too much of it to keep up with
  65. [01:41:28] <SignpostMarv> hehe
  66. [01:42:23] <tantek> ttfn
  67. [01:44:25] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  68. [01:44:29] <SignpostMarv> isn't a puppet something which is controlled by a person, and an avatar a representation of a person ?
  69. [01:45:38] <SignpostMarv> a puppet is not necesarily a representation of that person
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  72. [02:11:06] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  77. [02:34:04] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  87. [05:18:43] <Frederic> morning
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  94. [07:26:55] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
  95. [07:43:41] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) Quit ()
  96. [07:46:08] <mfbot> [[mailing-lists]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&diff=0&oldid=9544 * AndyMabbett * (+18) on reflection...
  97. [07:52:53] * danja (n=danja@host3-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  98. [07:52:54] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  101. [08:06:46] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  102. [08:06:46] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  106. [08:16:51] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-1796c2377656b97a) has joined #microformats
  107. [08:16:51] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  108. [08:19:50] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9545 * Phae * (+89) Microformats and Spam -
  109. [08:20:22] * BenWard (n=BenWard@host81-151-112-44.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  110. [08:20:22] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk (+0000/+0100 GMT)
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  113. [08:29:31] <Whiskey_M> morning Drew
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  117. [08:48:26] <drewinthehead> mornin' Whs
  118. [08:48:30] <drewinthehead> Whiskey_M :)
  119. [08:48:36] <Whiskey_M> you ready for tomorrow?
  120. [08:48:39] <drewinthehead> hah
  121. [08:48:47] <Whiskey_M> oh, that good ;)
  122. [08:48:52] <drewinthehead> getting there ... i've been working on my slides
  123. [08:49:10] <drewinthehead> i'm not sure how it ends yet
  124. [08:49:35] <drewinthehead> perhaps we could make it interactive and let the crowd choose the ending
  125. [08:49:44] <Whiskey_M> Looking forward to seeing them --- well normally it ends "and they all lived happily ever after...", but I don't think that is the conclusion you're looking for
  126. [08:49:54] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9546 * SXBRC * (+698) Questions -
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  130. [10:10:08] <mfbot> [[include]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/include * AndyMabbett * (+29) redirect
  131. [10:10:39] <mfbot> [[includes]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/includes * AndyMabbett * (+29) redirect
  132. [10:11:00] <mfbot> [[inclusion]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/inclusion * AndyMabbett * (+29) redirect
  133. [10:11:11] <mfbot> [[inclusions]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/inclusions * AndyMabbett * (+29) redirect
  134. [10:14:27] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9547 * AndyMabbett * (+217) Unclear status
  135. [10:14:38] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=9548 * Phae * (+51) It's not just background... it's where to go first!
  136. [10:14:49] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9549 * AndyMabbett * (-2) Unclear status
  137. [10:18:05] <mfbot> [[introduction]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction&diff=0&oldid=9550 * Phae * (+56) See also -
  138. [10:18:51] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9551 * AndyMabbett * (+11) add date to unanswered question
  139. [10:19:42] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9552 * AndyMabbett * (+37) Include Pattern Feedback - link to parent page
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  142. [10:34:28] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  143. [10:34:28] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
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  146. [10:51:07] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  153. [11:24:09] <charles_r> is anyone having trouble getting to the uF site?
  154. [11:27:11] * terraces (n=alex@sd-3150.dedibox.fr) has joined #microformats
  155. [11:32:36] <charles_r> anyone?
  156. [11:32:44] <charles_r> the site is down for me
  157. [11:33:50] * Diaz (n=chatzill@5.Red-80-58-232.staticIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  158. [11:49:28] * lucasvo (n=lucasvo@wservices.ch) has joined #microformats
  159. [11:49:31] <lucasvo> hi
  160. [11:50:23] <lucasvo> I have a question about urls in hcards, on the wiki it says: URL in vCard becomes <a class="url" href="...">...</a> inside the element with class="vcard" in hCard.
  161. [11:50:50] <lucasvo> can I also make an url <a class="url big" href="..."> ?
  162. [11:51:51] <Whiskey_M> where big is?
  163. [11:51:57] <Whiskey_M> a css style?
  164. [11:52:01] <lucasvo> Whiskey_M: yes
  165. [11:52:07] <Whiskey_M> shouldn't be a problem
  166. [11:52:58] <lucasvo> ok. also I wanted to know, is there an example of using a table to display multiple hcards? (one contact in every row)
  167. [11:53:27] <lucasvo> afaik <span class="hcard"><tr>...</tr></span> isn't allowed?
  168. [11:53:35] <lucasvo> or can I use <tr class="hcard">?
  169. [11:53:46] <trovster> <tr class="hcard"> is fine
  170. [11:54:12] <Whiskey_M> take a look here: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Examples_in_the_wild to see how other people are using them
  171. [11:54:14] <lucasvo> cool
  172. [11:54:24] <trovster> <tr class="hcard"><td class="fn">my name</td><td class="role">developer</td>
  173. [12:02:55] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  174. [12:02:56] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  175. [12:22:42] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable128.203-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  176. [12:22:42] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  177. [12:26:33] * Phae (n=Chatuser@212.2.31.157) has joined #microformats
  178. [12:26:33] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  179. [12:26:55] <Phae> afternoon
  180. [12:27:17] * briansuda (n=briansud@thjodarbokhlada.hotspot.hive.is) has joined #microformats
  181. [12:27:17] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  182. [12:27:17] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
  183. [12:27:51] <trovster> lo
  184. [12:30:07] <briansuda> afternoon
  185. [12:31:27] <davecardwell> B[B/clear
  186. [12:31:43] <davecardwell> bah
  187. [12:32:15] <Phae> no one noticed, it's ok.
  188. [12:33:17] <briansuda> how's the WSG Microformats meeting shaping-up for tomorrow?
  189. [12:33:27] <Whiskey_M> I'm looking forward to it for one :)
  190. [12:33:34] <Phae> Looks like it will be busy.
  191. [12:33:54] <Phae> I have the afternoon off :)
  192. [12:35:00] <briansuda> is there anything planned for Nov?
  193. [12:35:36] <Phae> hmm.. nothing exclusively uFy springs to mind.
  194. [12:35:43] * Phae consults upcoming
  195. [12:36:11] <Phae> No
  196. [12:37:23] <briansuda> WOW, according to Upcoming, 107 people attending!
  197. [12:37:36] * Phae nods.
  198. [12:37:47] <Phae> There was a large turnout for the first one, so I'm not surprised.
  199. [12:38:22] <briansuda> last i checked it was hovering around 23 people - it made a jump somewhere! i'd like to think it is because of MFs
  200. [12:38:50] <Phae> Perhaps :)
  201. [12:40:18] <Phae> I'll have to make some notes and take a couple snaps for the uF blog
  202. [12:40:18] <briansuda> i should be down in london in a few weeks, maybe then we all can have an impromptu meet-up... M(F)lashMeetup
  203. [12:40:30] <Phae> That'd be cool.
  204. [12:40:42] <briansuda> there are MF groups on Flickr and Ma.gnolia
  205. [12:41:05] <Phae> I don't use magnolia enough. I think I'm on the flickr one.
  206. [12:41:31] <briansuda> if not, you should certainly add them there (flickr) as well
  207. [12:41:45] <Whiskey_M> will there be space for all those people?
  208. [12:41:50] <Phae> Oh, of course, brian.
  209. [12:42:23] <Phae> I assume so! If it was very limited space, a cap would have been put on the listing
  210. [12:43:01] <Whiskey_M> hope so, I'm hoping to bring one of my devs along as a bit of a thank you
  211. [12:43:25] <briansuda> then you should get there early!!
  212. [12:43:55] <Whiskey_M> ahh, but not before checking out the pub first ;)
  213. [12:44:02] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-1796c2377656b97a) Quit ()
  214. [12:44:32] <Phae> The pub we're going to after?
  215. [12:44:38] * CaptSolo (i=captsolo@kaste.lv) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  216. [12:44:38] <Phae> That's where we go for pub standards.
  217. [12:44:47] * CaptSolo (i=captsolo@kaste.lv) has joined #microformats
  218. [12:45:06] <Whiskey_M> yup, helped no end in the last place popping along for a pint before, being polite - helped a lot when the bar got busier ;)
  219. [12:45:10] <briansuda> Phae, do you know who creates all the pub standards stickers?
  220. [12:45:23] <Phae> Yes.. but his name escapes me. 2 seconds!
  221. [12:46:05] <briansuda> drewinthehead told me who it was and sent me a link to the site to buy the stickers
  222. [12:46:18] <Phae> matt sephton!
  223. [12:46:24] <briansuda> i was wondering if you knew the person, rel="met friend"
  224. [12:46:29] <Phae> the original set were once done for a hen party, but geekified.
  225. [12:46:40] <Phae> oh
  226. [12:46:47] <Phae> and yeah.. rel="met friend" I guess.
  227. [12:46:56] <Phae> He gave me a whole sheet of hte stickers the first time I met him.
  228. [12:47:01] <briansuda> but you don't remember his name?
  229. [12:47:11] <Phae> I don't really know him that well... I've met him twice?
  230. [12:47:16] <briansuda> rel="aquatinance"
  231. [12:47:18] <Phae> yeah.
  232. [12:47:20] <Phae> hehe
  233. [12:47:20] <briansuda> :)
  234. [12:47:49] <briansuda> ok, if he is there tomorrow, i had some suggestions for some stickers
  235. [12:48:01] <Phae> oh cool.
  236. [12:48:07] <Phae> maybe you could be the next "guest face"
  237. [12:48:16] <briansuda> i'd like to see one that says "NOT a werewolf"
  238. [12:48:23] <Phae> good call.
  239. [12:48:28] <briansuda> that would come in handy
  240. [12:48:29] <lucasvo> is there a field position in hcard?
  241. [12:48:46] <Phae> field as in.. of expertise?
  242. [12:48:48] <briansuda> lucasvo, what do you mean by field
  243. [12:49:03] <briansuda> There is ROLE and TITLE and ORG
  244. [12:49:04] <trovster> <p class="subscribe xml"><a href="/atom/" type="application/atom+xml" rel="alternate">Subscribe to comments</a></p> is that rel + type correct?
  245. [12:49:18] <lucasvo> briansuda: that's what I needed
  246. [12:49:20] <lucasvo> briansuda: thanks
  247. [12:49:31] * briansuda can never remember if it is "alternate" or "alternative"
  248. [12:49:34] <lucasvo> briansuda: N:Public;John;Quinlan;Mr.;Esq.
  249. [12:50:05] <trovster> ATM, it goes to a 404, but Firefox asks me to download the file as MS-DOS exe file :s
  250. [12:50:12] <briansuda> lucasvo, that N: looks fine, but there is no FIELD in that?
  251. [12:50:50] <briansuda> trovster, then you might have apache configured wrong... do you have a mimeType for application/atom+xml
  252. [12:51:05] <briansuda> because that HTML looks fine to me
  253. [12:51:26] <trovster> No idea. But if I remove the type="" part, clicking the link gives me the 404 correctly.
  254. [12:51:40] <briansuda> browsers don't usually honor the TYPE attribute, the content-type in the HTTP header takes precidence
  255. [12:51:51] <briansuda> do you have a link?
  256. [12:52:10] <trovster> Not presently, and it'll be private when I do, give me 10 mins I'll pm if that's ok
  257. [12:53:24] <briansuda> lucasvo, did that answer all of your questions?
  258. [12:53:57] <briansuda> Phae, i had a whole series of other UNICODE jokes that would make good stickers
  259. [12:54:18] * briansuda still wants a ♌ on a ✈ sticker
  260. [12:54:41] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  261. [12:55:07] <Phae> I'm sure he'd use them
  262. [12:55:19] <Phae> I'm annoyed I missed the last one
  263. [12:55:34] <Phae> I was working late and couldn't be bothered by the time I got out
  264. [12:56:18] <briansuda> well, if you manage to see him tomorrow, please pass along my suggestions, maybe even an MF sticker! we need more schwag
  265. [12:56:29] <Phae> Very good idea.
  266. [12:56:31] <Phae> I will.
  267. [12:58:18] * remi (n=remi@csf-127.cegep-ste-foy.qc.ca) has joined #microformats
  268. [12:58:18] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  269. [13:06:12] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  270. [13:09:22] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-241095c6e96f967d) has joined #microformats
  271. [13:09:22] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  272. [13:22:17] <lucasvo> Is this valid: <form class="vcard"> <input type="text" class="given-name" value="Peter" /></form>?
  273. [13:22:35] <trovster> Suppose so
  274. [13:22:47] <briansuda> you always need a class="fn"
  275. [13:22:50] <Frederic> lucasvo: lacks of fn
  276. [13:23:16] <trovster> :( I suck, heh
  277. [13:23:26] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
  278. [13:23:31] <lucasvo> I mean generally, I mean if one can use input fields.
  279. [13:24:10] <Phae> Sounds like the thread that was going on on the mailing list the other day
  280. [13:24:10] <briansuda> you can use input fields, but what do you expect as the data? the @value, the node value, the @title?
  281. [13:24:14] <Phae> about uFs on form fields
  282. [13:25:01] <lucasvo> briansuda: the node value
  283. [13:25:31] <briansuda> with <input /> there is no node value unless you do the (valid but pointless) <input>hello world</input>
  284. [13:25:42] <lucasvo> is there a microformats validator which chechks if everything is correct?
  285. [13:25:57] <lucasvo> briansuda: so having an editable vcard is impossible?
  286. [13:26:14] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  287. [13:26:27] <briansuda> 1) no validator as of yet
  288. [13:26:38] <briansuda> 2) editable vcard - issues...
  289. [13:26:53] <briansuda> TAILS is client side, so it could extract those form field values (maybe)
  290. [13:27:10] <briansuda> X2V is server side, so it would only ever get the default values of <input> not what you entered
  291. [13:27:35] <lucasvo> ok
  292. [13:28:26] * Phae (n=Chatuser@212.2.31.157) Quit ("Leaving")
  293. [13:29:03] <briansuda> not sure how TAILS works with the DOM, either the original page, or the updated DOM, so even AJAXy things updating the page in <span>s and <div>s may not work...
  294. [13:29:28] <lucasvo> briansuda: do you have a link to TAILS?
  295. [13:29:47] <briansuda> http://blog.codeeg.com/tails-firefox-extension-03/
  296. [13:29:52] <lucasvo> ah, its a firefox extension
  297. [13:29:53] <lucasvo> cool
  298. [13:30:08] <briansuda> it does work for OSX even though it says windows only
  299. [13:30:39] <lucasvo> I need linux
  300. [13:31:26] <drewinthehead> greetings people of the internets.
  301. [13:32:12] <drewinthehead> should probably work on linux too, lucasvo
  302. [13:34:19] <briansuda> hello drewinthehead
  303. [13:34:34] <drewinthehead> hey briansuda
  304. [13:35:01] <drewinthehead> i'm presenting tomorrow night ... argh! just been doing some slides
  305. [13:35:22] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) Quit ()
  306. [13:37:00] <briansuda> if you want me to review anything let me know... and/or finish software bugs in X2V?
  307. [13:45:19] <drewinthehead> i'm not going to be able to demo anything (no 'net connection), so i've been mocking stuff up
  308. [13:45:28] <drewinthehead> less impressive, but also much, much simpler
  309. [13:45:37] <drewinthehead> less chance of anything going wrong ;)
  310. [13:47:08] <briansuda> true
  311. [13:51:38] <briansuda> http://www.web2expo.com/ Proposal deadline: October 30, 2006. Anyone want to put in an MF proposal?
  312. [13:55:43] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  313. [13:55:43] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  314. [13:56:07] * sreynen_ (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  315. [13:56:46] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@c-67-186-222-175.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  316. [13:57:21] <drewinthehead> a 3 hour tutorial on microformats would probably cover the lot
  317. [13:58:21] <briansuda> kingryan and i have a 5 hour tutorial at XTECH06, and near the end it felt like were were rushing it
  318. [13:58:25] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@c-67-186-222-175.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  319. [13:58:37] <drewinthehead> really? gosh
  320. [13:59:28] <McNulty> I guess it depends how much of the basics of nice semantic XHTML you cover
  321. [13:59:36] <McNulty> before going on to the uF bits.
  322. [13:59:57] <briansuda> i think our presentation slides are available online....
  323. [14:00:01] * briansuda checks
  324. [14:00:51] <briansuda> http://theryanking.com/presentations/2006/xtech/tutorial/
  325. [14:01:08] <briansuda> that covered most of the popular MFs of the time, but things have grown...
  326. [14:01:39] <briansuda> i pitty the folks who sat through it all, 5 hours is a LONG time to listen to Me waffle on about MFs! :)
  327. [14:01:51] <McNulty> was there at least a break? ;-)
  328. [14:02:16] <briansuda> a few breaks...
  329. [14:02:45] <briansuda> with 3 speakers, tomorrow should go by quick and be entertaining
  330. [14:05:03] <Whiskey_M> looking forward, did you find your conclusion drew?
  331. [14:05:44] <drewinthehead> not yet, Whiskey_M ... but i've done all my slides up to that point
  332. [14:05:51] <drewinthehead> so i just need to tidy it up tonight
  333. [14:05:58] <drewinthehead> tie up the loose ends
  334. [14:06:05] <McNulty> drewinthehead - what's the title of the presentation?
  335. [14:06:08] <drewinthehead> and add more squirrel pictures
  336. [14:06:16] <drewinthehead> "Can your website be your API?"
  337. [14:08:49] <McNulty> huh, nice
  338. [14:09:10] <McNulty> I'd be very interested in seeing the slides after
  339. [14:10:54] * vincenzio (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  340. [14:26:45] <drewinthehead> i think, all going well, it'll be podcast, McNulty
  341. [14:27:16] <drewinthehead> i may also write it up as an article
  342. [14:27:40] <drewinthehead> (beat)
  343. [14:27:51] <drewinthehead> rel-license applies to the entire page, correct?
  344. [14:30:56] <McNulty> yes
  345. [14:30:58] <drewinthehead> from the spec i can't see anything that relates to scope
  346. [14:31:19] <McNulty> "By adding rel="license" to a hyperlink, a page indicates that the destination of that hyperlink is license for the current page."
  347. [14:31:32] <drewinthehead> right, that's just what i was reading.
  348. [14:31:42] <drewinthehead> ok, well that makes life easy.
  349. [14:31:56] <McNulty> however...
  350. [14:32:22] <McNulty> rel-tag says something very similar, and then in other uFs the scope of the tag is reduced to some subset of the page
  351. [14:32:58] <McNulty> that may be a special case for tag on the grounds that if a part of the page has a tag applied, then that tag should apply to the whole page (ish)
  352. [14:40:10] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-195-113.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  353. [14:40:10] <jibot> vmarks is in NC
  354. [14:40:27] * pnhOldbook (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  355. [14:42:46] <drewinthehead> flickr fails to use rel-license :/
  356. [14:45:11] <pnhOldbook> whats being licensed :P
  357. [14:46:14] <pnhOldbook> certainly not the page including comments, etc.
  358. [14:47:13] <McNulty> I'd be surprised if the comments didn't fall under *some* license
  359. [14:47:13] * danja (n=danja@host3-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  360. [14:47:20] <McNulty> I mean, they must have a policy about who owns them.
  361. [14:49:40] * briansuda (n=briansud@thjodarbokhlada.hotspot.hive.is) Quit ()
  362. [14:49:41] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust7394.vic01.dataco.com.au) has joined #microformats
  363. [14:50:15] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust7394.vic01.dataco.com.au) Quit (Client Quit)
  364. [14:50:43] <pnhOldbook> oh sure... i just mean.. using rel=license on the license that refers to the image without any conventions yet for specificity there could be considered a bit 'wrong'.. however the comments are licensed.. if only just standard copyright.. i wouldn't think it would change with the status of the photo
  365. [14:51:18] <pnhOldbook> similarly for the newsvine examples which i have to dig up more of
  366. [14:51:33] <pnhOldbook> where a cc licensed photo from flickr is included in someone else's work
  367. [14:51:34] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust7394.vic01.dataco.com.au) has joined #microformats
  368. [14:51:39] <McNulty> Yeah but the rel-license can point to a flickr page saying 'the pic is license X, the comments are license Y'
  369. [14:56:01] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) has joined #Microformats
  370. [14:56:02] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  371. [14:57:07] * briansuda (n=briansud@adsl6-101-111.du.simnet.is) has joined #microformats
  372. [14:57:07] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
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  380. [15:16:48] * iand (n=iand@talis.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  384. [15:24:18] * danja (n=danja@host102-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  385. [15:24:18] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  386. [15:24:26] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  387. [15:29:24] * drewinthehead has something very exciting and cool to demo, but needs to check he's allowed to first :/
  388. [15:30:28] <drewinthehead> the joys of working inside a big corp
  389. [15:31:45] <briansuda> :)
  390. [15:37:38] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  391. [15:38:44] <Frederic> drewinthehead: show us :)
  392. [15:38:56] <Frederic> I promise I won't tell about it out of the Internet
  393. [15:39:37] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust7394.vic01.dataco.com.au) has left #microformats
  394. [15:41:51] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  395. [15:41:51] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  396. [15:43:17] * McNulty realises the WSG meetup is tomorrow
  397. [15:43:26] * drewinthehead panics.
  398. [15:43:45] <McNulty> So is this something one can just turn up to?
  399. [15:47:34] * shigeta (n=guest@137.147.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) has joined #microformats
  400. [15:49:32] * veeliam (n=veeliam@207.111.252.38) has joined #microformats
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  406. [16:10:03] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-42-133-100.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  407. [16:10:03] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  408. [16:11:44] <Whiskey_M> you stopped panicing yet Drew ;)
  409. [16:11:53] * gsnedders panics
  410. [16:12:02] <gsnedders> (just incase drewinthehead ha stopped)
  411. [16:13:45] <drewinthehead> not yet!
  412. [16:14:03] <drewinthehead> i'll be less panic'd when i've finished my slides and have my ending
  413. [16:14:38] <drewinthehead> hopefully the bus will be one of the larger ones this evening, so i've got room to get my mac out
  414. [16:15:19] <Whiskey_M> we'll I'll have a pint for you beforehand to help calm your nerves ;)
  415. [16:16:00] <Whiskey_M> somewhere in that last sentence as an extra apostrophe, but it's too late to worry now
  416. [16:21:29] * iand (n=iand@talis.com) Quit ("http://iandavis.com/")
  417. [16:23:18] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  418. [16:23:34] <drewinthehead> catchya later.
  419. [16:23:38] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-241095c6e96f967d) has left #microformats
  420. [16:28:55] * blueNine (n=tigger@host213-123-130-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit ("leaving")
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  422. [16:29:21] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  423. [16:32:36] * Whiskey_M (i=user@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) Quit ("[ub")
  424. [16:38:08] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  425. [16:39:31] <gsnedders> anyone mind helping my convince people in #wordpress that there's point in hAtom when Atom already exists?
  426. [16:46:22] * BenWard (n=BenWard@host81-151-112-44.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
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  431. [17:15:22] <tantek_> pnhOldbook, check out http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing for next steps in microformats for licensing.
  432. [17:16:21] <pnhOldbook> read em...
  433. [17:17:02] <pnhOldbook> and keeping my eye out for examples (like the newsvine case, just need to come across a few stories using flickr images/that markup)
  434. [17:20:01] <pnhOldbook> but thanks for pointing it out again
  435. [17:22:05] * shigeta (n=guest@137.147.210.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
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  441. [17:47:47] <jibot> vmarks is in NC
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  446. [18:45:04] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9553 * BenWest * (+22) Class semantics - fixed an example regarding multiple classnames. there are still todo's left in this faq
  447. [18:46:12] * Phae (n=phae@bb-87-80-218-92.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  448. [18:46:12] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  449. [18:46:39] * bear is now known as bear_afk
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  452. [18:48:45] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  453. [18:49:00] <bewest> kingryan: can we add some styles to the wiki stylesheet?
  454. [18:49:31] <bewest> kingryan: I have a convention in my wiki's: I add some class names like "todo", "aside", "note" and add some styles that highlight these items to make them noticeable
  455. [18:49:46] <bewest> kingryan: this way people know which areas are under construction and need work
  456. [18:49:53] <bewest> kingryan: and it supports "direct manipulation"
  457. [18:49:56] <Phae> That'd be helpful.
  458. [18:50:00] <kingryan> are you asking if it's technically feasible?
  459. [18:50:24] <kingryan> or for permission?
  460. [18:50:27] <kingryan> or both?
  461. [18:50:39] <bewest> something like that
  462. [18:50:49] <bewest> rather than telling you to do something...
  463. [18:50:57] <bewest> I don't know how to edit the stylsheet on the wiki
  464. [18:51:00] <bewest> or if I'm able to
  465. [18:51:16] <bewest> I've noticed many other standards bodies follow similar conventions
  466. [18:51:35] <kingryan> I wouldn't mind it at all. if you send me some css declarations, I can add them
  467. [18:51:44] <bewest> here comes the pastebin...
  468. [18:52:41] <kingryan> hmm, we need a pastebin for this channel
  469. [18:53:59] <bewest> http://pastebin.ca/208619
  470. [18:55:33] <Phae> aye
  471. [18:55:58] <kingryan> have you used these classnames anywhere yet?
  472. [18:56:03] <bewest> yeah
  473. [18:56:17] <bewest> all over an internal wiki
  474. [18:56:25] <bewest> I don't mind someone editing them
  475. [18:56:29] <bewest> they aren't particularly well tested
  476. [18:56:29] <kingryan> ah, I meant on our wiki
  477. [18:56:32] <bewest> oh yes
  478. [18:56:33] <bewest> just now
  479. [18:56:34] <bewest> :-)
  480. [18:56:38] <bewest> but I can change them
  481. [18:56:41] <bewest> I just started
  482. [18:56:50] <kingryan> I wanted to preview before I started editing the css files
  483. [18:57:01] <bewest> ok...
  484. [18:57:10] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9554 * BenWest * (+780) Class semantics -
  485. [18:57:13] <bewest> :-)
  486. [18:57:16] <bewest> check the faq
  487. [19:00:46] * kingryan looks
  488. [19:00:56] <kingryan> what's #debug_log for?
  489. [19:01:10] <bewest> erm... I just copy/pasted a stylesheet
  490. [19:01:12] <bewest> feel free to delete
  491. [19:01:40] <kingryan> well, I just want to get an idea of what these will be used for
  492. [19:01:43] <bewest> #debug_log is an area I use to log events using js
  493. [19:01:58] <kingryan> we will have to document the class names, so that others know what to use them for
  494. [19:02:03] <bewest> the class semantics section now has todo, idea, and aside
  495. [19:02:13] <bewest> todo is for something that needs doing
  496. [19:02:22] <bewest> such as "consider ___" or "needs link to __"
  497. [19:02:43] <kingryan> ok
  498. [19:03:00] <bewest> aside is to make it a box and float it off to the side
  499. [19:03:13] <kingryan> this reminds me that I need to document and style the class names I used on http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume
  500. [19:03:14] <bewest> note is for editorial types of notes
  501. [19:03:27] <bewest> keyword is for important terms
  502. [19:03:36] <bewest> minikeyword are for slightly less important terms
  503. [19:03:52] <Phae> Stick 'em in the FAQ somewhere?
  504. [19:04:01] <bewest> I forget what name and current is for
  505. [19:04:12] <bewest> oh
  506. [19:04:13] <kingryan> hmm
  507. [19:04:22] <bewest> current is to tag the current state of affairs from a list of possible states
  508. [19:04:32] <bewest> for example if you are doing planning, and have listed planned phases
  509. [19:04:35] <kingryan> I definitely like the idea, but I'm not sure these particular semantics are that useful for us....
  510. [19:04:39] <bewest> you would add current to the phase you are currently in
  511. [19:04:52] <kingryan> perhaps we should start with semantics we already employ and try to make them explicit?
  512. [19:05:05] <bewest> sure
  513. [19:05:13] <kingryan> pave the cowpaths and all
  514. [19:05:19] <bewest> as long as I get something anaologous to "todo" and "aside" I'll be happy
  515. [19:05:46] <kingryan> todo, sure, but we don't currently do asides, do we?
  516. [19:06:00] <bewest> I don't understand
  517. [19:06:35] <kingryan> I'm sayin' "start authoring them, then we'll talk about styling them" :D
  518. [19:06:43] <bewest> afaik there's no way to do an aside
  519. [19:06:51] <bewest> so how could you?
  520. [19:07:06] * bewest has already authored at least one
  521. [19:07:15] <kingryan> you can't do the presentation, no
  522. [19:07:20] <kingryan> but you can write the content
  523. [19:07:30] <kingryan> and it should make sense without the styling
  524. [19:07:48] <bewest> "Consider creating a new section for web authorint tips?"
  525. [19:07:51] <bewest> this is an aside
  526. [19:07:53] <bewest> it's also a todo
  527. [19:07:58] <bewest> and possibly an idea
  528. [19:08:10] <kingryan> sure
  529. [19:08:23] <bewest> it's an aside because it isn't directly related to the content at hand
  530. [19:08:30] <bewest> and as such doesn't really belong inline...
  531. [19:08:31] <kingryan> but remember, whatever we do needs to be understandable with css turned off
  532. [19:08:37] <bewest> but I thought of it and needed to write it down quickly
  533. [19:08:50] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  534. [19:08:51] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  535. [19:08:53] <kingryan> plus, some techniques you use in this stylesheet won't work in ie6
  536. [19:08:53] <bewest> asides probably have a short shelf life
  537. [19:08:57] <bewest> yes, I know
  538. [19:08:58] <Phae> evening drew
  539. [19:09:24] <bewest> when I authored this stylesheet I wasn't particularly worried about ie6, just with getting some work done
  540. [19:09:31] <bewest> I'm not suggesting this stylesheet is suitable...
  541. [19:09:54] <bewest> just providing it to jumpstart at least "todo"
  542. [19:09:59] <kingryan> neither am i :D
  543. [19:10:06] <drewinthehead> evening Phae, evening all :)
  544. [19:10:42] <kingryan> bewest: I'll give you todo, but without the generated content
  545. [19:11:01] <bewest> ok fine :-) I can suffer writing the word TODO:
  546. [19:11:49] <bewest> maybe editorial, or note instead of aside
  547. [19:11:57] <bewest> oh, btw
  548. [19:12:03] <bewest> aside isn't meant as a standalone
  549. [19:12:07] <bewest> it's purely visual
  550. [19:12:18] <bewest> it should go with todo or note at least
  551. [19:12:26] <bewest> note indicates some editorial process at work
  552. [19:12:58] <bewest> todo is "I know this needs to be done but am too lazy to do it at the moment"
  553. [19:13:06] <bewest> s/lazy/busy
  554. [19:13:33] <bewest> so aside is purely a visual compliment... not really meant to convey any meaning
  555. [19:13:37] <Phae> note and todo seem practically the same to me. unless you mean like, foot notes?
  556. [19:13:40] <Phae> oh
  557. [19:13:52] <bewest> hmmm lemme find an example on another spec
  558. [19:15:31] <bewest> http://whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#htmloptionscollection red box at the bottom is what I consider to be a note... it's a bit different from a todo
  559. [19:16:18] <Phae> oh. They're like edit posties that word and such do. Sort of after thoughts.
  560. [19:16:28] <bewest> where as "Need to define the remaining members." is a todo
  561. [19:16:30] <kingryan> bewest: suggested todo styles installed
  562. [19:16:37] <Phae> one is a must do
  563. [19:16:40] <Phae> the other is a suggestion
  564. [19:18:13] <bewest> might not be important..
  565. [19:18:25] * bewest refreshes but doesn't see anything
  566. [19:21:17] <Frederic> re
  567. [19:21:32] <kingryan> its in http://microformats.org/wiki/skins/monobook/main.css
  568. [19:21:41] <Phae> I think just todo would suffice for most of our needs.
  569. [19:23:43] <bewest> yes, my "edit css" bookmarklet shows the style is present
  570. [19:24:02] <gsnedders> for hCalendar, am I right in thinking I have to go off and read iCalendar just to read the spec!?
  571. [19:24:30] <kingryan> for now, yes, gsnedders
  572. [19:25:37] <gsnedders> kingryan: thanks, but I must say that seems completely idiotic
  573. [19:25:37] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9555 * BenWest * (-12) Q. ''How will microformat class names impact page size?'' - test todo's
  574. [19:26:44] <kingryan> gsnedders: in the initial stages, we've been careful to no replicate things from ical to hcal, because the process of replicating specs and assertions is bound to cause errors
  575. [19:27:10] <kingryan> but I think we understand it well enough now to do it
  576. [19:27:30] <gsnedders> but so is getting every implementation to try and put iCal as an hCal going to cause issues.
  577. [19:27:53] <kingryan> I agree
  578. [19:28:02] * bewest wonders if something is funky with his browser
  579. [19:28:27] * gsnedders wonders if bewest's browser is what he walked into coming upstairs
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  589. [20:02:20] <jibot> vmarks is in NC
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  592. [20:17:56] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
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  596. [20:54:03] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  597. [20:54:03] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  599. [20:57:47] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  600. [20:57:47] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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  613. [21:49:27] <tantek_> good afternoon
  614. [21:50:01] <bewest> afternoon
  615. [21:51:42] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  616. [21:51:44] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  617. [21:54:39] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  618. [21:56:27] <tantek> hmmm... that's disturbing - it appears someone was on irc.freenode.net as "tantek" but unauthenticated for about the past 18 hours approximately. i had to RECOVER my nick manually to take it back. just FYI.
  619. [22:00:19] * pnhOldbook (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  620. [22:02:13] * danja (n=danja@host102-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
  621. [22:04:42] <bewest> gah... I don't understand Andy's comments
  622. [22:05:03] <bewest> someone explains something, I create a list to summarize... then he says I forgot something
  623. [22:05:58] <bewest> he then rearranges the list so that it's the same list... I'm not sure if he's saying the list is useless or what
  624. [22:13:25] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  625. [22:13:26] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  626. [22:20:17] <tantek> bewest, Justin's input appears to make sense
  627. [22:21:46] <tantek> and thanks much for adding to the FAQ
  628. [22:24:15] <_fil_> oh dear, I sold the Eiffel tower to "tantek" yesterday
  629. [22:24:23] <_fil_> do you mean I'm not going to cover?
  630. [22:28:01] <tantek> _fil_, did that include postage and reassembly?
  631. [22:30:08] * bewest imagines authenticating to IRC using an openID implementation involving mobile phones
  632. [22:30:22] <bewest> well, authenticating to anything really
  633. [22:30:49] <bewest> *ring ring* Did you really mean to purchase the Eiffel Tower? Press 1 for yes, any other button for HELL NO!
  634. [22:31:21] <_fil_> well for that price it sure did!
  635. [22:31:38] <_fil_> more expensive than YouTube ;-)
  636. [22:31:45] <_fil_> and much stronger
  637. [22:33:25] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  638. [22:35:40] <bewest> _fil_: what about the user base?
  639. [22:38:54] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9556 * Tantek * (+17) Q. ''How will microformat class names impact page size?'' - - added links
  640. [22:39:05] <mfbot> [[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=9557 * Tantek * (+226) added to do - create principles page from existing content on site
  641. [22:39:53] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  642. [22:40:04] <tantek> bewest, i think there may be a short term support contract for the existing user base consisting of tourist-travel discounts.
  643. [22:40:19] <_fil_> it depends where you reassemble it
  644. [22:40:27] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.1/2006012608]")
  645. [22:40:37] <tantek> bewest, I added a few links to your new faq answer
  646. [22:44:32] <bewest> thanks
  647. [22:46:39] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
  648. [22:48:49] * bewest wonders if a map of where the servers hosting published microformats are would be interesting
  649. [22:49:21] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9558 * AndyMabbett * (+119) Class semantics - another answer
  650. [22:49:58] <bewest> actually a map of where the authors of microformatted content are would be more interesting
  651. [22:50:12] <bewest> I suspect most people hear about it at a conference or something similar
  652. [22:50:19] <bewest> there's a real life touch point
  653. [22:50:22] <veeliam> i agree. that would be a rather nifty idea.
  654. [22:50:57] <bewest> and so I would predict finding a heavy concentration within driving distances of usual suspects of presenters
  655. [22:51:34] <bewest> eg there would be heavy concentrations around where tantek and kingryan and brian and friends have made presentations
  656. [22:51:37] <kingryan> I'd expect to find them in cities where there's lots of big data centers :D
  657. [22:51:49] <kingryan> (if you did servers)
  658. [22:51:52] <bewest> right
  659. [22:52:01] <kingryan> how about we just map the adrs in hcards?
  660. [22:52:26] <veeliam> or in remote areas of folks who want better access to large clusters of data
  661. [22:53:18] <bewest> kingryan: not sure that would work...
  662. [22:53:28] <kingryan> but it'd be interesting
  663. [22:53:43] <bewest> kingryan: that works if you assume that most hcards in existence were authored by who they represent
  664. [22:54:06] <kingryan> it might be a good assumption
  665. [22:54:12] * bewest doesn't think it is
  666. [22:54:13] <kingryan> either way, its data that I have access to
  667. [22:54:22] <bewest> yes...
  668. [22:54:33] <bewest> access counts for a lot
  669. [22:58:18] <kingryan> it could be a deal breaker
  670. [22:59:14] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  671. [22:59:14] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  672. [23:03:27] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9559 * Tantek * (-119) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  673. [23:04:15] <tantek> reverted unsubstantiated hypothetical and inaccurate answer in the faq
  674. [23:04:18] <bewest> now I'm being accused of aegism
  675. [23:04:45] <kingryan> aegism?
  676. [23:04:55] <kingryan> biased against the aegean sea?
  677. [23:05:02] <bewest> hmmm
  678. [23:05:13] <bewest> aegist
  679. [23:05:17] <bewest> sorry, being called an aegist
  680. [23:05:28] <kingryan> ageist?
  681. [23:05:33] <bewest> hmmm
  682. [23:05:38] * bewest rubs his eyes
  683. [23:05:45] <bewest> sorry been looking at MSDN all day
  684. [23:05:59] <kingryan> ah, that explains it
  685. [23:06:04] <tantek> I actually think the Aegean sea is quite nice and warm
  686. [23:06:33] <tantek> I can't imagine why anyone would be aegist.
  687. [23:06:51] * iand (n=iand@cpc2-nthc3-0-0-cust770.nrth.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
  688. [23:06:55] <tantek> Or wait, is aegism discriminating for or against the Aegean sea?
  689. [23:09:38] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9560 * AndyMabbett * (+145) Warning: <a> proprietary attribute "data"
  690. [23:12:19] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9561 * Tantek * (-408) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Phae
  691. [23:12:50] <tantek> reverted spurious comment about "data" attribute on <a>. Nowhere in include-pattern or include-pattern-issues is there a "data" attribute on <a> mentioned.
  692. [23:15:08] <kingryan> later.
  693. [23:15:10] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  694. [23:17:22] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  695. [23:18:14] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  696. [23:20:56] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9562 * AndyMabbett * (+455) reinstate and clarify
  697. [23:25:22] * iand (n=iand@cpc2-nthc3-0-0-cust770.nrth.cable.ntl.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  698. [23:33:12] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9563 * Tantek * (+267) moved issue closer to source of issue for clarity, answered unclear status feedback
  699. [23:36:28] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9564 * AndyMabbett * (+1566) restore with evidence; getting fed up with disingenuity of some people....
  700. [23:36:55] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) Quit ()
  701. [23:37:59] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9565 * AndyMabbett * (-44) Class semantics - remove suplus text - even greater difference!
  702. [23:38:50] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9566 * AndyMabbett * (+4) Class semantics - fix
  703. [23:40:19] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  704. [23:40:41] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9567 * AndyMabbett * (+139) Unclear status -
  705. [23:43:29] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  706. [23:44:24] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  707. [23:44:24] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  708. [23:45:20] <bewest> hmmm
  709. [23:45:25] <bewest> Anyd's example uses table for layouts...
  710. [23:45:30] <bewest> which is expressly mentioned
  711. [23:46:17] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=9568 * Tantek * (-1526) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  712. [23:46:27] <tantek> reverted due to suboptimal use of microformats - bad example
  713. [23:48:38] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9569 * Tantek * (+125) fixed nesting of response, and added follow-up.
  714. [23:48:51] <bewest> tantek: are we going to play the revert+edit game now? I was going to just leave a note that the example was poor
  715. [23:49:30] <tantek> I don't there is any need to keep disingenuous responses to FAQ questions.
  716. [23:49:50] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) Quit ()
  717. [23:50:37] <tantek> bewest - your answer the FAQ was sufficient.
  718. [23:51:11] <bewest> thanks. I agree, but I'm biased ;-)
  719. [23:51:50] <tantek> and claims of "it doubles the size" by a suboptimal example are spurious
  720. [23:53:15] <tantek> and bewest, regarding reverts+edits,
  721. [23:53:31] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
  722. [23:53:53] <tantek> I am more willing to tolerate Andy's personal attacks on my on the mailing list (which I think will get old soon enough), than corruption or addition of incorrect content to the wiki.
  723. [23:54:59] <bewest> hmmm
  724. [23:55:25] <KevinMarks> a comparison of gzipped sizes would be more apropos in any case
  725. [23:55:25] <tantek> responding to his personal attacks are a sub-optimal use of time. if his pattern of personal attacks doesn't stop soon though then it begins to damage the community as a whole and may require moderation.
  726. [23:55:39] <bewest> I've just been told get a working mail client
  727. [23:55:43] <bewest> yeah, you are right
  728. [23:56:06] <tantek> bewest, yes, his personal attacks are spreading to beyond just me to others like yourself, as evidenced by that remark.
  729. [23:56:31] <bewest> well, he claimed I was ageist
  730. [23:56:44] <tantek> indeed
  731. [23:56:54] <bewest> I asked him what we should actually do about it and his reply is to get a working mail client
  732. [23:58:22] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  733. [23:58:26] <bewest> actually, first he invalidated work that several people were converging on, /then/ called me ageist after that
  734. [23:58:45] <tantek> having a different opinion than several people is not a problem
  735. [23:58:53] <tantek> but namecalling / age-baiting is a problem

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