IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-10-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:07:20] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9570 * AndyMabbett * (+1671) Censorship
  2. [00:07:35] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("Hel Fucking Vetica")
  3. [00:08:10] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
  4. [00:14:36] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("Hel Fucking Vetica")
  5. [00:19:37] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9571 * Tantek * (+116) added link to demonstrate that the attempted (if inaccurate) answer is still in the history and thus retrievable - no need to be redundant/inflamatory here.
  6. [00:20:02] <sreynen> this seems headed no where good
  7. [00:21:28] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9572 * AndyMabbett * (-51) Censorship -
  8. [00:22:12] <sreynen> i don't think FAQ answers should ever provide problems without solutions. that's just not helpful
  9. [00:22:44] <bewest> well, there's an adage: "You're either a part of the problem of part of the solution"
  10. [00:25:12] <sreynen> i'm out of ideas on how to be part of the solution in this case
  11. [00:25:15] <KevinMarks> you're either part of the solution, or part of the precipitate
  12. [00:26:00] * shigeta_ (n=shigeta@124x32x114x226.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) has joined #microformats
  13. [00:26:54] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9573 * Tantek * (+51) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  14. [00:27:00] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  15. [00:27:00] <jibot> edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
  16. [00:27:35] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9574 * Tantek * (+59) restored previous history link and re-added removal link
  17. [00:28:04] <tantek> KevinMarks the chemist!
  18. [00:29:01] <tantek> sreynen - that's a very good point. FAQ answers should not provide problems without solutions. It is certainly not helpful.
  19. [00:29:36] <bewest> time to "change horses"
  20. [00:29:43] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has left #microformats
  21. [00:36:36] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9575 * AndyMabbett * (-110) my user page,. not yours
  22. [00:37:18] <pnhChris> my toy!
  23. [00:41:28] <sreynen> is this going to go on all night? do i need to pop some popcorn?
  24. [00:42:56] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  25. [00:43:42] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9576 * Tantek * (+110) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  26. [00:43:58] <tantek> please do not undo more precise changes and documentation
  27. [00:43:58] <sreynen> oh man
  28. [00:45:55] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  29. [00:49:23] <sreynen> andy seem to be using the wiki to communicate with the IRC channel
  30. [00:49:43] <sreynen> overlooking how absurd that is, it's actually an interesting means of communication
  31. [00:51:09] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9577 * AndyMabbett * (-110) Kindly do not attempt to put "words" into my "mouth"
  32. [00:52:35] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9578 * Tantek * (+110) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  33. [00:52:50] <sreynen> this is like watching a trainwreck
  34. [00:53:17] <sreynen> so horrible to watch, but so hard to look away
  35. [00:53:22] <KevinMarks> 3 repeats, isn't that a stalemate?
  36. [00:53:46] <mfbot> [[licensing-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-examples&diff=0&oldid=9579 * ChrisCasciano * (+102) Photos (reuse) -
  37. [00:53:57] <tantek> 3 repeated positions in particular
  38. [00:54:12] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9580 * AndyMabbett * (-110)
  39. [00:54:27] <sreynen> aww, no comment for the audience?
  40. [00:54:45] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  41. [00:56:24] <pnhChris> totally different topic... and slightly ot... http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/10/18/internet-explorer-7-for-windows-xp-available-now.aspx
  42. [00:56:38] <pnhChris> but also probably popcorn munching worthy
  43. [00:56:55] <sreynen> is it half time already?
  44. [00:59:37] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
  45. [00:59:37] <jibot> bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
  46. [01:02:04] <pnhChris> i guess so
  47. [01:02:53] <pnhChris> too bad
  48. [01:06:21] <sreynen> anyone have any idea what the adoption rate is likely to look like for ie7?
  49. [01:06:35] <bewest> sreynen: very high adoption rate
  50. [01:06:36] <tantek> expect it to have a huge burst in the next few days
  51. [01:06:47] <bewest> tantek: next few days?
  52. [01:06:48] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9581 * Tantek * (+110) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  53. [01:07:07] <bewest> sreynen: it's being released as a high priority, automatic, security update
  54. [01:07:08] <sreynen> oh, half time's over
  55. [01:07:19] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9582 * AndyMabbett * (-110)
  56. [01:07:19] <bewest> sreynen: they tell you when and what to download, you can choose yes or no
  57. [01:07:34] <bewest> but who doesn't say yes to automatic high priority security updates?
  58. [01:07:51] <sreynen> not many, i'm sure
  59. [01:08:10] <pnhChris> probably more just don't have auto updates on
  60. [01:08:12] <pnhChris> but
  61. [01:08:21] <bewest> tantek: why do you say next few days?
  62. [01:08:26] <pnhChris> it'll be fairly quick to be a meaningful %
  63. [01:08:29] * bewest would like a few more weaks
  64. [01:08:30] <sreynen> i probably should have done more testing on the betas
  65. [01:08:59] <bewest> weaks?
  66. [01:09:01] <bewest> weeks, even
  67. [01:09:30] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:AndyMabbett" with an expiry time of 24 hours: excessive reverts of more precise changes and documentation - 24 hour cooling off
  68. [01:09:41] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=9583 * Tantek * (+110) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  69. [01:10:07] <tantek> reverted to last version with more precise links and documentation
  70. [01:10:53] <bewest> next few days...
  71. [01:11:42] <bewest> ah they just released
  72. [01:11:45] <bewest> sreynen: they've released
  73. [01:12:39] <bewest> oh automatic updates come later
  74. [01:12:43] <bewest> *phew*
  75. [01:12:47] <sreynen> yeah, pnhChris sent the link just before you arrived, bewest
  76. [01:12:50] <bewest> oh
  77. [01:12:52] <bewest> well
  78. [01:12:54] <bewest> I suck then
  79. [01:13:57] <sreynen> i won't hold it against you
  80. [01:14:08] <sreynen> i've been known to leave IRC at times
  81. [01:15:33] <pnhChris> leave irc!?!
  82. [01:20:19] <tantek> like this:
  83. [01:20:21] <tantek> ttfn!
  84. [01:20:32] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  85. [01:20:47] <pnhChris> sure, leave us to pick up the pieces
  86. [01:20:49] <pnhChris> :P
  87. [01:21:50] <sreynen> i'm surprised there hasn't already been a flurry of emails since the wiki war ended
  88. [01:22:12] <bewest> meh
  89. [01:22:18] <sreynen> here i am with half a bag of popcorn left
  90. [01:22:24] <bewest> Andy isn't stupid
  91. [01:22:50] <bewest> he might have been blocked from the mailing list; who knows
  92. [01:25:24] <sreynen> i doubt it. he only got a 24 hour ban from the wiki, so apparently tantek still has some hope of resolving the situation
  93. [01:34:39] * pnhChris doesn't know why
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  95. [01:37:32] <jibot> vmarks is in NC
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  97. [01:39:25] <bewest> pnhChris: because that is what would be best, overall
  98. [01:39:50] <pnhChris> no, i mean.. i don't konw why i replied on the list
  99. [01:40:12] <bewest> oh... because it's hard not to
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  129. [02:18:15] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  133. [02:57:30] <mfbot> [[licensing-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-examples&diff=0&oldid=9584 * Mike Linksvayer * (+11) Rights warranty/idemnification availability - rename section
  134. [02:58:45] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  135. [03:00:36] <mfbot> [[licensing-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-examples&diff=0&oldid=9585 * Mike Linksvayer * (+104) License notice with content hash - explanatory url
  136. [03:01:07] <mfbot> [[licensing-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-examples&diff=0&oldid=9586 * Mike Linksvayer * (-2) License notice with content hash - oops too many square brackets
  137. [03:02:43] <mfbot> [[licensing-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-examples&diff=0&oldid=9587 * Mike Linksvayer * (-52) Licensing Examples - "availability" adds nothing to section headings
  138. [03:06:35] <BobJonkman> I need some help with Wiki markup I can't include an "<a href..." example; the Wiki messes it up, even when I supply <pre><nowiki>
  139. [03:07:26] <BobJonkman> I'm working on http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-faq
  140. [03:07:44] <SignpostMarv> [http://example.com/]
  141. [03:07:53] <SignpostMarv> [http://example.com/ text]
  142. [03:08:22] <BobJonkman> Yes, that part. I'm going to save the changes, you'll see what I mean. http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-faq#X2V_does_not_convert_email_with_name_as_plain_text
  143. [03:08:32] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  144. [03:08:35] <mfbot> [[hcard-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=9588 * Bob Jonkman * (+453) X2V does not convert email with name as plain text - changed example to 'example.com', supplied valid hcard markup
  145. [03:09:34] <SignpostMarv> ah
  146. [03:09:39] <SignpostMarv> use &lt; and &gt;
  147. [03:09:49] <SignpostMarv> instead of < and >
  148. [03:09:53] <SignpostMarv> that might help a bit
  149. [03:09:54] <BobJonkman> The trouble with using [http://example.com text text] is that I can't make it a "live example" with microformat markup
  150. [03:10:09] <bewest> BobJonkman: you have to use html entities
  151. [03:10:21] <mfbot> [[licensing-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9589 * Mike Linksvayer * (+857) Discussion - provenance; see examples
  152. [03:10:25] <bewest> BobJonkman: html encoding encodes < as &lt;, > as &gt;
  153. [03:10:39] <bewest> & as &amp;, " as &quot;
  154. [03:11:37] <BobJonkman> OK, but that won't create a "live example". I actualy want to provide a microformatted link on the page so that microformat enabled browsers can render it.
  155. [03:11:41] <SignpostMarv> ah
  156. [03:11:44] <SignpostMarv> I see that
  157. [03:11:45] <SignpostMarv> hmm
  158. [03:12:03] <BobJonkman> Creating live examplesThis was briefly discussed on the mailing list a few days ago
  159. [03:12:04] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  160. [03:12:11] <bewest> oh, sorry
  161. [03:12:28] <SignpostMarv> MediaWiki auto creating a link around the email address right ?
  162. [03:12:29] <BobJonkman> It's a tricky business, this Wiki stuff.
  163. [03:13:09] <BobJonkman> If I create the Wiki text as [http://email@example.com] everything becomes a link automatically
  164. [03:13:20] <BobJonkman> But then I can't apply microformats.
  165. [03:13:25] <SignpostMarv> would <nowiki>email@example.com</nowiki> not work ?
  166. [03:13:54] <BobJonkman> And when I type <a class="email" href="emai@example.com"> then I get the mess I just created
  167. [03:14:10] <BobJonkman> (I'll revert it when this discussion is done)
  168. [03:14:40] <BobJonkman> No, <nowiki></nowiki> has no effect. See the first example box in http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-faq#X2V_does_not_convert_email_with_name_as_plain_text
  169. [03:16:20] <BobJonkman> I mean that it has no effect in rendering the "<a href" entiity. <nowiki> works as designed by displaying the actual code
  170. [03:16:37] <SignpostMarv> hmm
  171. [03:16:49] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  172. [03:18:15] <SignpostMarv> entity for @ ?
  173. [03:18:18] <BobJonkman> And another thing: The [edit] sections don't line up with the sections they're supposed to edit. The correct link is a few sections below the section it actually edits. I lack the Wiki-fu to fix that.
  174. [03:18:37] <bewest> gah
  175. [03:18:43] <bewest> so frustrating!
  176. [03:18:45] <bewest> gah
  177. [03:18:57] <bewest> gah
  178. [03:19:03] <bewest> I hate wiki syntax
  179. [03:19:09] <BobJonkman> I see you see what I mean... :)
  180. [03:19:26] * bewest has a case of the heebie-jeebies
  181. [03:22:10] <BobJonkman> So I'm going to comment out the messy bits, and leave only the first example box.
  182. [03:26:28] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) has joined #microformats
  183. [03:28:02] <mfbot> [[hcard-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=9590 * Bob Jonkman * (+291) X2V does not convert email with name as plain text - Commented out poorly rendered example
  184. [03:30:22] <bewest> gah
  185. [03:30:24] * bewest gives up
  186. [03:30:34] * bewest has a hissie fit
  187. [03:30:44] <BobJonkman> Me too. Bedtime. I'll sleep it off.
  188. [03:40:48] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) Quit ()
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  192. [04:15:35] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  193. [04:23:33] * SignpostMarv (i=user@194-247-242-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
  194. [04:56:31] <mfbot> [[mailing-lists]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&diff=0&oldid=9591 * Bob Jonkman * (+279) /*New List Proposal*/ Poll participation
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  199. [05:24:53] <Ashley`> Can someone explain what exactly xoxo is supposed to do/be? It's just going way over my head.
  200. [05:29:22] <Frederic> morning
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  202. [05:30:12] <BobJonkman> It's a way of representing a collection of objects. think of a bunch of bookmarks, or RSS feeds,
  203. [05:31:44] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  204. [05:31:48] <BobJonkman> XOXO is similar to OPML, but better defined, imho
  205. [05:34:07] <Ashley`> Yeah, I'm reading the spec but i'm not seeing what's different between it and a plain old list. Is it just supposed to make stuff easier to parse?
  206. [05:35:17] <BobJonkman> That's the idea behind all microformats -- the presentation on a web page is somewhat arbitrary, but the markup is unambiguous. This lets automated processes extract the microformats.
  207. [05:37:02] <BobJonkman> Not just list processors or vcard extractors. Someone on the mailing list recently pointed out that speech readers and other assistive devices and software benefit immensely when they can identify what the different parts of a page are supposed to represent.
  208. [05:38:40] <Ashley`> Yeah, so forgiving my denseness, it's just a more standardised way to mark up content, right?
  209. [05:39:49] <BobJonkman> yup. Although the word "standardised" may be a bit too formal. I don't think any standards bodies have yet put their stamp of approval on any microformats.
  210. [05:40:07] <Ashley`> Well an attempt to be more standardised then.
  211. [05:40:20] * Ashley` refrains from putting the word "yeah" on the front of another sentence.
  212. [05:40:41] <Ashley`> I think I get it now, thanks. It had me _so_ puzzled.
  213. [05:41:04] <BobJonkman> Most of the Wiki pages indicate that the microformats will eventually be proposed to either the IETF or the W3C.
  214. [05:41:44] <Ashley`> Yeah, I noticed that. :-) Still, a de-facto standard is better than a mess.
  215. [05:41:46] <BobJonkman> But I'm a fine one to talk; I have yet to do anything at all with XOXO.
  216. [05:42:17] <Ashley`> Damn, there's another "yeah"
  217. [05:42:21] <BobJonkman> I've got a bunch of link farms on my web page, none have been marked up with XOXO
  218. [05:42:50] <Ashley`> Make the time. :-P
  219. [05:42:50] <BobJonkman> Me, I used to be a "Well..." prefixer :-)
  220. [05:43:32] <BobJonkman> I know. Too busy either working, commuting, or decompressing from work and the commute...
  221. [05:44:33] <Ashley`> I'm a bit like that. I'm not working today, so I figure I should start work on one of my projects.
  222. [05:46:41] <BobJonkman> OK, just poking around. http://techtoucian.net/prevrant.php#Archive would be a good candidate for XOXO markup
  223. [05:48:23] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  224. [05:49:38] <mfbot> [[xoxo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo&diff=0&oldid=9592 * Ashley * (+1) Publishing XOXO - Fixed improperly closed tag.
  225. [05:50:25] * iand (n=iand@cpc2-nthc3-0-0-cust770.nrth.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
  226. [05:50:25] <Ashley`> So with the "older articles" section, to make it xoxo, what should I do with the date?
  227. [05:51:38] * BobJonkman goes and looks at XOXO examples on http://microformats.org/wikw/xoxo
  228. [05:54:39] <BobJonkman> The dates aren't part of the article name or link. I don't know just yet.
  229. [05:56:52] <BobJonkman> My guess would be to change <ul id="Archive"> to <ul id="Archive" class="xoxo">
  230. [05:59:17] * iand (n=iand@cpc2-nthc3-0-0-cust770.nrth.cable.ntl.com) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  231. [05:59:20] <Ashley`> See, that's what I just don't get. I don't see the benefit to just adding a class name.
  232. [05:59:34] <Ashley`> Thanks so much for your help with this though. It's really appreciated.
  233. [06:01:03] <BobJonkman> With the addition of a class name the element with the class is recognized as a list structure of interest to parsers. The page may contain other list structures, eg. for a TOC menu, which would not have the class="xoxo"
  234. [06:01:28] <Ashley`> Hmm, you're right.
  235. [06:07:39] <Ashley`> Well, I'm working on a project that's going to use pretty much every microformat I can think of and then som, so I'll have to check back here along the way and see if I'm doing it right. :-)
  236. [06:08:45] <BobJonkman> For your example with the dates, you could mark them up as <li class="alt0"><dl><dt>url</dt><dd><a href="/muse/2006/10/06/Storage_and_the_Elements">Storage and the Elements</a></dd> <dt>description></dt><dd><small>(6th October)</small></dd></dl></li>
  237. [06:10:29] <BobJonkman> I've just used a <dl> structure to identify the components of one of the list items. You'd use CSS to suppress the <dt></dt> elements, eg. ".xoxo dt { display: none; } "
  238. [06:11:44] <BobJonkman> And you should probably put the dates in <abbr title="2006-10-06">6th October</abbr> format too...
  239. [06:12:02] <Ashley`> I should indeeed.
  240. [06:12:06] <Ashley`> I'll do that now.
  241. [06:13:04] <BobJonkman> Well, in my timezone it's past my bedtime. Gotta go...
  242. [06:13:05] <Ashley`> Should I use "2006-10-06" or go all-out ISO 8601?
  243. [06:13:18] <Ashley`> Fair enough. Thakns again for all your help.
  244. [06:13:40] <BobJonkman> Don't know about that. I'm not sure what the convention is for a date without a time.
  245. [06:13:58] <Ashley`> It's all in the DB.
  246. [06:14:09] <Ashley`> I'll work it out, you go rest. :-)
  247. [06:14:17] <BobJonkman> OK, g'night.
  248. [06:14:26] * BobJonkman (n=John@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit ("goes to bed")
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  251. [06:20:07] * ChanServ sets mode +o KevinMarks
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  254. [06:33:14] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  259. [08:04:15] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  260. [08:23:58] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  261. [08:23:59] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  262. [08:24:02] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  263. [08:28:25] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  264. [08:28:25] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
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  266. [08:33:55] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk (+0000/+0100 GMT)
  267. [08:35:02] <McNulty> morning all
  268. [08:42:59] * danja (n=danja@host171-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  269. [08:42:59] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  274. [09:09:08] <heycam> Hi. In an hCard, how would I reference my photo without using an img/object element (since I don't want it displayed there)?
  275. [09:10:55] <McNulty> heycam - the emphasis on hCard, and other microformats in general, on marking up existing content.
  276. [09:11:11] <heycam> Right, but is it possible still?
  277. [09:11:14] <McNulty> However, you can hide the photo using CSS, I expect
  278. [09:11:20] <heycam> ok
  279. [09:11:34] <heycam> Non-CSS browsers would still show it though.
  280. [09:11:55] <trovster> Why don't you want it to show, without CSS?
  281. [09:12:03] <McNulty> Is it a bad photo ;-)
  282. [09:12:07] <heycam> Heh :)
  283. [09:12:25] <McNulty> Can you use an A as a photo?
  284. [09:12:35] <heycam> No, just don't want it displayed in there. I'm making an hCard out of a couple of paragraphs of text/some bullet points about myself, and I don't want to stick a photo in the middle of it.
  285. [09:12:50] * iand (n=iand@talis.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  286. [09:13:12] <heycam> Is there a general rule that you can use a title attribute as the value of a property? or does that only work for specific properties?
  287. [09:13:17] <McNulty> heycam - you could have it elsewhere on the page and use the include pattern to refer to it?
  288. [09:14:09] <heycam> oh that might work
  289. [09:14:10] * Whiskey_M (i=user@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) has joined #microformats
  290. [09:14:16] <Whiskey_M> 'lo and good morning :)
  291. [09:14:28] <McNulty> @title should be used for ABBR elements
  292. [09:14:40] <McNulty> I don't *think* it applies to any others
  293. [09:14:52] <Whiskey_M> dtstart?
  294. [09:15:05] <McNulty> dtstart should be an ABBR, right
  295. [09:15:13] <heycam> for some reason don't really like use abbr elements like that
  296. [09:15:22] <heycam> seems like an abuse of abbr, since it's not an abbreviation
  297. [09:15:26] <trovster> McNulty: Yeh.
  298. [09:15:30] <McNulty> @title won't be taken as the value of any other elements
  299. [09:15:49] <heycam> and i don't always want tooltips popping up with some ISO datetime value showing up
  300. [09:15:50] <KevinMarks> no, it is an abbreviation
  301. [09:16:12] <McNulty> heycam - that's a common debate... you should avoid using it in contexts where it's not an abbreviation
  302. [09:16:15] <KevinMarks> june 3rd is an abbreviation of 2006-06-03
  303. [09:16:30] <heycam> ok, i could buy that the date strings are an abbreviation of the long english form
  304. [09:16:41] <McNulty> KevinMarks - I don't know if heycam's specifically talking about the date pattern
  305. [09:16:42] <heycam> but something like <span class=
  306. [09:16:56] <KevinMarks> no, the short english form is an abbreviation of the full datetime
  307. [09:17:48] <heycam> and something like <span class="value" title="voice">home phone</span> will result in a tooltip too
  308. [09:17:52] <heycam> which is a bit funny
  309. [09:18:13] <heycam> (if i remembered the syntax correctly)
  310. [09:18:40] <heycam> KevinMarks, oh yes, it is the other way around isn't it
  311. [09:19:04] <heycam> ok i dislike it slightly more now :)
  312. [09:19:25] <McNulty> heycam - it comes back to this thing about microformats adding structure to the existing documents. There's not a mechanism for 'hiding' stuff in @titles
  313. [09:19:46] <McNulty> @titles are there in ABBR to explain fully what is only there in abbreviated form in the document
  314. [09:20:13] <heycam> (i'm new to microformats so i guess i'm not up on all the reasoning behind certain decisions)
  315. [09:20:33] <heycam> McNulty, yeah, but primarily as an aid to the reader, right?
  316. [09:20:55] <heycam> the ISO date format doesn't seem nice as an explanation to a non-techy reader
  317. [09:21:43] <KevinMarks> well, if you use the dashes and colons variant it's not too bad
  318. [09:23:13] <McNulty> ABBR is primarily there to explain that something's an abbreviation ;-)
  319. [09:23:16] <heycam> it's better, yes (i forgot that you they were optional)
  320. [09:23:31] <heycam> and also what it's an abbreviation of, surely
  321. [09:23:42] <McNulty> I think the default tooltip/dashed-line display is often dumb, and I'd like to be able to turn it off sometimes.
  322. [09:24:00] <McNulty> well yes the title explains what it's an abbreviation of
  323. [09:24:06] <heycam> i guess that's the price to pay for using a more semanticful element than span :)
  324. [09:24:17] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-51b8db2d134dd6f9) has joined #microformats
  325. [09:24:17] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  326. [09:24:24] <McNulty> You agree it's an abbreviation though, right? ;-)
  327. [09:24:41] <Whiskey_M> morning Drew, you all ready?
  328. [09:24:51] <McNulty> 25th January is an abbreviation of 2006-01-25
  329. [09:25:43] <heycam> i'm not so sure, since "25th January" is longer than "2006-01-25"
  330. [09:26:26] <KevinMarks> it omits the year
  331. [09:26:54] <heycam> it does...
  332. [09:26:59] <heycam> what about "25th January, 2006"
  333. [09:27:44] <KevinMarks> you will admit that '9:30' is an abbreviation of "2006-11-03T21:30:00+00:00"
  334. [09:28:04] <heycam> yep
  335. [09:34:24] <heycam> anyway, it's not such an important point. i'll come back later to see people's thoughts on using 'url' properties for IM accounts, bfn
  336. [09:39:02] <McNulty> see you
  337. [09:41:04] <mfbot> [[User:Phae]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Phae&diff=0&oldid=9593 * Phae * (+395) About time I updated this
  338. [09:42:32] <drewinthehead> morning Whiskey_M ... belatedly :)
  339. [09:43:11] <McNulty> drewinthehead - all ready?
  340. [09:45:29] <drewinthehead> i think so
  341. [09:45:37] <drewinthehead> pretty much ... all my slides are done
  342. [09:46:17] <drewinthehead> i think i'll hole myself up in a meeting room at lunch time and run through a couple of times ;)
  343. [09:47:38] <McNulty> I'm pondering whether to come, i have another thing I'm trying to get out of
  344. [09:48:38] <trovster> Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
  345. [09:48:49] <Whiskey_M> probably not ;)
  346. [09:49:55] <trovster> But it's the same thing we try to do every night.
  347. [09:50:12] <McNulty> heh
  348. [09:50:13] <Whiskey_M> ahhh taking over the world
  349. [09:53:55] <drewinthehead> heh
  350. [09:59:14] <KevinMarks> I have a cunning plan...
  351. [10:03:53] <Whiskey_M> More cunning that a fox that has through years of study and cunning become Professor of cunning at Oxford university?
  352. [10:04:57] <McNulty> Ladies and gentlemen: the #Microformats Comedy Revue
  353. [10:06:01] <drewinthehead> what's the cunning plan, KevinMarks? microformats embroidered socks?
  354. [10:06:38] <KevinMarks> no, I think we have the logo promotion covered
  355. [10:06:57] <drewinthehead> there's a gap in the market for geek hatpins.
  356. [10:06:59] <KevinMarks> my plan is embedding microformat support in agile web dev toolkits
  357. [10:07:13] <KevinMarks> girl-shaped t-shirts ftw
  358. [10:08:00] <drewinthehead> any examples?
  359. [10:08:21] <KevinMarks> no, it's a plan so far
  360. [10:08:41] <KevinMarks> the point is to emphasise the 'schema convergence' aspect
  361. [10:08:59] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has left #microformats
  362. [10:09:04] <KevinMarks> so if you want to make a 'person' in rails, use hCard
  363. [10:09:05] <KevinMarks> etc
  364. [10:09:16] <KevinMarks> Ning has some examples, come to think of it
  365. [10:09:19] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  366. [10:10:26] <drewinthehead> ah ok, so Rails, Django, Cake etc
  367. [10:10:45] <drewinthehead> Symphony ...
  368. [10:10:58] <KevinMarks> right
  369. [10:11:11] <KevinMarks> then you cna move stuff between them mroe easily
  370. [10:11:20] <KevinMarks> and have shared CSS and JS too
  371. [10:15:13] <drewinthehead> not sure how that would actually play out, but i like the sound of it
  372. [10:19:51] <Whiskey_M> kinda doing that already here - unfortunately at present the engine is too closely integrated into our closed source cms - we do have fun stuff in the pipeline though which will be open
  373. [10:21:36] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
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  375. [10:27:38] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  376. [10:35:02] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=9594 * CameronMcCormack * (+2) Implementations - Updated link to Tails
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  381. [11:23:29] <Frederic> re
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  384. [11:52:10] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=9595 * ChristopheDucamp * (+391)
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  389. [12:09:22] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=9596 * ChristopheDucamp * (+110)
  390. [12:14:48] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=9597 * ChristopheDucamp * (+610) Discussions Exploratoires -
  391. [12:15:29] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=9598 * ChristopheDucamp * (+70) Outils & et Tests de Cas & Recherche Supplémentaire -
  392. [12:15:55] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=9599 * ChristopheDucamp * (+73) espaces de travail partagés -
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  398. [12:39:28] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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  400. [12:43:52] <mfbot> [[spread-microformats-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/spread-microformats-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1061)
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  402. [12:46:57] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  403. [12:47:30] <McNulty> hi
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  406. [12:58:58] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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  417. [13:33:15] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  421. [13:39:19] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9600 * ChristopheDucamp * (+45) Plus d'Equivalents Sémantiques -
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  423. [13:43:56] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  424. [13:43:56] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  425. [13:44:36] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9601 * ChristopheDucamp * (+236) Extraction de Valeur -
  426. [13:46:52] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9602 * ChristopheDucamp * (-10) valeurs sous-propriété type -
  427. [13:47:20] * briansuda (n=briansud@thjodarbokhlada.hotspot.hive.is) has joined #microformats
  428. [13:47:20] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
  429. [13:47:20] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  430. [13:47:53] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9603 * ChristopheDucamp * (+78) Echantillon vCard -
  431. [13:52:44] * drewinthehead (i=mclellan@nat/yahoo/x-0e6ed125ebdfeb04) has joined #microformats
  432. [13:52:44] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  433. [13:53:04] <drewinthehead> greetings
  434. [13:53:25] <pnhChris> hola
  435. [13:54:24] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9604 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1379) Nouveaux Exemples -
  436. [13:55:21] <briansuda> hello
  437. [13:55:25] * Phae (n=phae@bb-87-80-218-92.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  438. [13:55:25] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  439. [13:55:52] <drewinthehead> hey Phae
  440. [13:55:57] <Phae> hey
  441. [13:56:02] <Phae> ready for wsg?
  442. [13:56:19] <drewinthehead> yeah .. i've just run through my presentation, and i think it's going to be fine
  443. [13:56:24] <Phae> :)
  444. [13:57:04] <drewinthehead> quietly meeping to myself, but yeah, it'll be fine
  445. [13:57:06] <Whiskey_M> cool
  446. [13:57:11] <Phae> It'll be fine.
  447. [13:57:31] <Phae> I have my map printed. I haven't been to this venue before.
  448. [13:57:31] <drewinthehead> i have 70 slides, so it can't go *that* far wrong
  449. [13:57:34] <Phae> 70!!
  450. [13:57:36] <Phae> blimey
  451. [13:57:43] * Phae packs a pillow.
  452. [13:57:52] <trovster> Yeh, just get over yourself drewinthehead
  453. [13:57:54] * Phae is also kidding.
  454. [13:58:06] <pnhChris> oh no! getting heckled already!
  455. [13:58:07] <McNulty> so 1 slide/min? ;-)
  456. [13:58:10] <drewinthehead> hah :)
  457. [13:58:14] <Whiskey_M> lol - my last train goes at 11:20 I don't want to have to leave halfway through ;-)
  458. [13:58:15] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9605 * ChristopheDucamp * (+443) Nouveaux Exemples -
  459. [13:58:25] <drewinthehead> it's 30mins
  460. [13:58:33] <Phae> oh. it's going to be a snappy one then
  461. [13:58:54] <drewinthehead> a slide every 25secs .. ish
  462. [13:59:19] <Whiskey_M> well I have map in hand, and will be off in about 45mins to brave South Eastern rail
  463. [13:59:24] <drewinthehead> i figure it's hard to get board if there's always something new to look at ;)
  464. [13:59:39] <drewinthehead> finding the venue isn't too hard - head for BT Tower
  465. [13:59:43] <Phae> m'k
  466. [13:59:44] * tommorris (n=tommorri@future-is.orange.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  467. [13:59:54] <drewinthehead> it's pretty much at the bottom of the tower
  468. [13:59:58] <drewinthehead> near enough, anyway
  469. [14:00:03] <Phae> hmm. easy enough
  470. [14:00:11] <Whiskey_M> finding the venue.... I've just got the important part circled; the pub ;)
  471. [14:00:21] <drewinthehead> it'd be better if it was at the top of the tower...
  472. [14:00:31] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9606 * ChristopheDucamp * (+106) Exemples -
  473. [14:00:32] <Phae> yes
  474. [14:02:42] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9607 * ChristopheDucamp * (+83) Exemples avec quelques problèmes -
  475. [14:03:28] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("Hel Fucking Vetica")
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  477. [14:06:08] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9608 * ChristopheDucamp * (+300) Implémentations -
  478. [14:07:05] <drewinthehead> has anyone done an implementation of X2V that accepts a string of markup rather than a uri?
  479. [14:09:26] <drewinthehead> i'm parsing a document with javascript, and encountering hcards that i can't single out with a fragment ID, but that i wish to export as a vcard
  480. [14:10:12] <briansuda> there is a full javascript hCard parser
  481. [14:10:47] <briansuda> http://leftlogic.com
  482. [14:10:52] <McNulty> It'd be interesting to see a parser that took an XPath.
  483. [14:11:04] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  484. [14:11:23] <briansuda> X2V is XSLT using XPath
  485. [14:12:08] <briansuda> http://leftlogic.com/js/microformats.js
  486. [14:12:12] <McNulty> hm
  487. [14:18:02] * divoxx (n=rodrigo@201.37.108.13) has joined #microformats
  488. [14:20:30] * tommorris (n=tommorri@future-is.orange.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  489. [14:23:10] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9609 * ChristopheDucamp * (+87) Implémentations -
  490. [14:24:51] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9610 * ChristopheDucamp * (+94) Pages Apparentées -
  491. [14:25:13] <drewinthehead> oo, ok, that's interesting
  492. [14:25:27] * Phae (n=phae@bb-87-80-218-92.ukonline.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  493. [14:25:55] <drewinthehead> although it's not going to be as robust as X2V :/
  494. [14:26:07] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=9611 * ChristopheDucamp * (+190)
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  497. [14:26:56] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  498. [14:27:13] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=9612 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) Déterminez l'Elément Surrounding pour Chacun -
  499. [14:27:59] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=9613 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1) Déterminez l'Elément Environnant pour Chacun -
  500. [14:30:41] <briansuda> yeah, i looked at how the Javascript works, it is using jQuery
  501. [14:30:56] <briansuda> jQuery can take CSS declarations (.vcard .fn) and extract that data
  502. [14:31:23] <briansuda> and/or it can take basic XPath as well (@class="vcard"//@class["fn"])
  503. [14:31:45] <briansuda> you are right, there are some serious shortcomings (i saw that not because i wrote X2V)
  504. [14:31:58] <briansuda> but because with CSS you can't say NOT so .tel NOT a child of DEL
  505. [14:32:23] <briansuda> you can with XPath, but their Xpath support is not complete (understandable so! it is pretty big)
  506. [14:32:53] <briansuda> I was playing around with jQuery to extract an hCard and serialise that into a LiveClipBoard object
  507. [14:33:16] <briansuda> that what when i updated my HTML, my LiveCP data updated dynamically from the DOM by jQuery
  508. [14:33:42] <briansuda> i didn't get very far, but leftlogic has done a GREAT job in getting alot of data out!
  509. [14:33:54] <briansuda> i also like the fact that they also support the DATA: protocol!
  510. [14:34:03] <drewinthehead> the nice thing about using X2V as a base is that it's likely going to be the most comprehensive and up-to-date, at least for now
  511. [14:34:08] <drewinthehead> yeah, a very nice job :)
  512. [14:34:10] <drewinthehead> looks good too
  513. [14:36:29] * _psychic_ is now known as psy-sheik
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  515. [14:39:59] * psy-sheik is now known as _psychic_
  516. [14:40:49] * Whiskey_M (i=user@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) Quit ("off")
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  518. [15:22:35] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  519. [15:26:06] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  520. [15:26:06] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  521. [15:26:53] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  522. [15:27:22] <briansuda> mlinksva, you have been floating a few Qs on the mailing list about rel="license"
  523. [15:27:54] <briansuda> i had a few thoughts here and there, but don't do enough licensing to be able to contribute much
  524. [15:30:46] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
  525. [15:32:01] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  526. [15:33:32] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit (Client Quit)
  527. [15:34:19] * tantek scrolls up
  528. [15:39:24] <Phae> gr. i suppose i should get my act together and head into london
  529. [15:40:24] <McNulty> I've failed to extricate myself from my many social engagements
  530. [15:40:35] <McNulty> I must start checking the events list more than once every 2 mo
  531. [15:40:39] <Phae> Thats a shame.
  532. [15:40:54] <briansuda> good luck tonight guys and gals!
  533. [15:41:16] <McNulty> yeah, indeed! Share the slides afterwards ;-)
  534. [15:43:08] <Phae> drew?
  535. [15:43:14] <drewinthehead> hey :)
  536. [15:43:19] <Phae> which is the closest tube? :)
  537. [15:43:36] <drewinthehead> let me check
  538. [15:43:48] <Phae> goodge?
  539. [15:44:02] <drewinthehead> goodge, yeah
  540. [15:44:06] <Phae> okies. cool.
  541. [15:45:16] <Phae> m'k. see ya later on. :)
  542. [15:45:19] * Phae (n=phae@bb-87-80-218-92.ukonline.co.uk) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
  543. [15:45:23] <McNulty> I think you just head towards BT tower if you're lost
  544. [15:49:05] * drewinthehead nods
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  547. [16:06:01] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
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  551. [16:11:15] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  552. [16:14:01] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  553. [16:14:39] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-fr&diff=0&oldid=9614 * ChristopheDucamp * (+476) synchro with hcalendar
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  557. [16:22:29] <lucasvo> someone using tails extension?
  558. [16:22:47] <lucasvo> I don't know how to install the scripts
  559. [16:25:33] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  560. [16:29:27] * blueNine (n=tigger@host213-123-130-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit ("leaving")
  561. [16:31:06] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit ("Leaving")
  562. [16:33:56] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-intro-fr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-intro-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+4047) traduction de hcalendar-intro
  563. [16:34:06] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-intro-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-intro-fr&diff=0&oldid=9615 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0)
  564. [16:34:23] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-intro-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-intro-fr&diff=0&oldid=9616 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) Voir aussi -
  565. [16:34:45] * iand (n=iand@talis.com) Quit ("http://iandavis.com/")
  566. [16:36:29] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-intro-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-intro-fr&diff=0&oldid=9617 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2)
  567. [16:39:40] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=9618 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2)
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  577. [16:58:10] <jibot> DanC_lap is DanC on his laptop.
  578. [16:58:18] <DanC_lap> oh for hCalendar on http://www.aaaairportexpress.com/routes/athens.html .
  579. [17:00:59] * DanC (n=connolly@64-126-89-30.dyn.everestkc.net) has joined #microformats
  580. [17:00:59] <jibot> DanC is Dan Connolly http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
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  582. [17:05:29] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  583. [17:05:29] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  584. [17:09:37] * charles_roper (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  585. [17:09:48] <lucasvo> how can I include the N and FN into a table like this:<table class="hcard"> <tbody><tr><td class="label">Given name:</td><td class="given-name">John</td></tr><tr><td class="label">Family name:</td><td class="family-name">Bush</td></tr></table>?
  586. [17:10:18] <lucasvo> because if I set <tbody class="fn n">, fn becomse: Given name John Family name: Bush
  587. [17:11:41] <briansuda> you SHOULD be able to also use class='value"
  588. [17:12:02] <briansuda> FN will extract ALL children if no value is explicitly set
  589. [17:12:14] <briansuda> otherwise it will cat together all class="value"
  590. [17:12:21] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  591. [17:12:24] <briansuda> so... your HTML should be something like
  592. [17:12:47] <briansuda> <tr><td class="label">Given name:</td><td class="given-name"><span class="value">John</span></td></tr>
  593. [17:12:51] <briansuda> make sense?
  594. [17:12:54] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) has left #microformats
  595. [17:12:57] <mfbot> [[xoxo-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-fr&diff=0&oldid=9619 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) XOXO XHTML Valide - typo
  596. [17:13:20] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
  597. [17:13:20] <lucasvo> briansuda: can I also use <td class="given-name value">?
  598. [17:13:33] <briansuda> maybe.,..
  599. [17:13:43] <lucasvo> I don't like the fact that this generates twice as much html code
  600. [17:13:55] <briansuda> the class-"value" would then ONLY apply to FN, not N, but N is appearing OK already
  601. [17:14:09] <briansuda> so it should be fine
  602. [17:14:17] <briansuda> give it a try and see what happens
  603. [17:14:36] <lucasvo> no, n doesn't work either
  604. [17:15:24] <briansuda> what are you using Tails? or X2V, do you have a link?
  605. [17:15:24] <lucasvo> well, tails still reports the same FN
  606. [17:15:33] <lucasvo> no, it's locally
  607. [17:15:41] <lucasvo> but I can set something up
  608. [17:15:43] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  609. [17:15:43] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  610. [17:15:47] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  611. [17:19:14] <lucasvo> briansuda: Trails what does it display, FN or N?
  612. [17:19:21] <briansuda> not sure
  613. [17:20:36] <lucasvo> FN
  614. [17:22:31] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  615. [17:23:01] <lucasvo> value obviously doesn't seem to work
  616. [17:23:14] <briansuda> do you have the page online?
  617. [17:23:38] * iand (n=iand@213.205.227.138) has joined #microformats
  618. [17:23:41] <briansuda> we can test it with X2V, then if it works we can try to urge the Tails author to add it in
  619. [17:25:26] <lucasvo> http://wservices.ch/~lucas/ablage/hcard.html
  620. [17:25:42] <lucasvo> it's a webframework, I just copied the template
  621. [17:25:44] <lucasvo> but it should work
  622. [17:27:38] <briansuda> that works for me
  623. [17:27:40] <lucasvo> http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/
  624. [17:27:46] <briansuda> http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/get-vcard.php?uri=http%3A//wservices.ch/%7Elucas/ablage/hcard.html
  625. [17:27:49] <lucasvo> seems to return a correct result
  626. [17:27:52] <lucasvo> yes
  627. [17:27:53] <briansuda> that is pretty much what you would exoect
  628. [17:28:06] <lucasvo> ok, so it's tails
  629. [17:28:18] <briansuda> (I think) Tails development has been moved to google code, so you can add bug tickets
  630. [17:28:24] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  631. [17:28:33] <lucasvo> will do
  632. [17:29:59] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  635. [17:32:09] <briansuda> this looks promising: http://code.google.com/p/tails-firefox-extension/
  636. [17:34:01] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) has joined #microformats
  637. [17:34:01] <jibot> kensanata is blogging at http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
  638. [17:36:15] * qid[MOE] is now known as qid
  639. [17:39:23] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
  640. [17:39:23] <jibot> bewest is curious about emerging standards and works for Alexa.com
  641. [17:39:47] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  642. [17:43:53] <lucasvo> briansuda: thanks for the help!
  643. [17:44:15] <briansuda> not a problem, just ask away anytime if you have any others
  644. [17:44:42] <lucasvo> btw, is SOAP also a microformat?
  645. [17:45:15] * bear is now known as bear_mtg
  646. [17:47:17] <briansuda> SOAP, no
  647. [17:47:21] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) Quit ("fu! fu! fu! fu! fu!")
  648. [17:47:31] <briansuda> nor is XML-RPC
  649. [17:47:58] <briansuda> those are more about communications between two seperate programs
  650. [17:48:04] <briansuda> microformats are about semantics.
  651. [17:48:24] <briansuda> you COULD have microformats over SOAP/RSS/XML-RPC, but they are two different things
  652. [17:49:52] <bewest> although you could potentially use XOXO as a data binding
  653. [17:51:12] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  654. [17:52:04] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  655. [17:52:07] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  656. [17:52:32] * danja (n=danja@host130-217-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  657. [17:52:32] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  658. [17:54:44] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  659. [17:57:49] * scottjungling (n=scottjun@sjc.CSUChico.EDU) Quit (Client Quit)
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  668. [18:22:04] * briansuda (n=briansud@thjodarbokhlada.hotspot.hive.is) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  669. [18:29:39] * amanuelPB (n=amanuel@integrity.niagara.com) has joined #microformats
  670. [18:29:39] <jibot> amanuelPB is running The Intentional Web Initiative http://intentionalweb.org
  671. [18:42:12] * chimezie_ (n=chime@ppp-70-229-49-43.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net) has joined #microformats
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  673. [18:47:03] <DanC> yay for yahoo local. http://local.yahoo.com/details?id=13779205&stx=holiday+inn&csz=Athens%2C+GA
  674. [18:47:13] <DanC> FN;CHARSET=UTF-8:Holiday Inn
  675. [18:47:14] <DanC> ADR;CHARSET=UTF-8:;;197 E Broad St;Athens;GA;30601;
  676. [18:47:14] <DanC> TEL:(706) 549-4433
  677. [18:47:24] <DanC> via x2v and xsltproc with the --html flag
  678. [18:50:45] * bear_mtg is now known as bear
  679. [18:53:49] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  680. [19:10:32] <mfbot> [[hresume-issues]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-issues * RyanKing * (+1430) added hcalendar dtend/present issue
  681. [19:11:27] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  684. [19:47:02] <jibot> DanC_lap is DanC on his laptop.
  685. [19:49:39] * amanuelPB (n=amanuel@integrity.niagara.com) Quit ()
  686. [19:59:25] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  687. [19:59:25] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  688. [20:06:54] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("RAGE apply directly to the forehead, RAGE apply directly to the forehead, RAGE apply directly to the forehead")
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  699. [20:37:31] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
  700. [20:37:31] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
  701. [20:52:28] * iand (n=iand@cpc2-nthc3-0-0-cust770.nrth.cable.ntl.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  709. [21:50:58] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust7394.vic01.dataco.com.au) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
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