IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-12-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:10:35] * tantek is entertained by the rel="muse" discussion
- [00:20:43] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124x32x114x226.ap124.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) has joined #microformats
- [00:21:33] * bewest wonders why muse got listed under Romantic
- [00:21:35] <bewest>
heh
- [00:22:05] <othermaciej>
because it's someone you can't get with so you write poetry instead
- [00:22:27] <bewest>
Hellenic would have been a better choice
- [00:22:52] <bewest>
not sure what Romantic refers to there
- [00:23:03] <bewest>
the historical period would be fitting
- [00:23:49] <bewest>
othermaciej: hehe except that's not what "muse" means
- [00:24:39] * bewest sees that tantek is on the authors list and wonders if he would care to comment
- [00:25:01] <tantek>
bewest - watch your inbox. ;)
- [00:25:30] <bewest>
hehe
- [00:28:17] * tantek has waiting a while to bring up the "romanticism" connotation :)
- [00:28:32] <tantek>
has been waiting | has waited
- [00:30:23] <bewest>
yes, romanticism makes much much more sense
- [00:30:58] <tantek>
and that's what i was thinking when i put rel="muse" in the "romantic" category and knew someday i'd have to clarify that :)
- [00:33:46] <bewest>
lol I now have "Greek Music Ringtone" ads in my gmail
- [00:34:07] <tantek>
hah!
- [00:37:21] * tantek needs to update his blogroll with more rel="muse" entries
- [00:38:33] * tantek is not sure how far to take it.
- [00:38:47] * tantek has been gathering data on more varieties of romantic relationships.
- [00:39:15] <bewest>
I'm not sure I agree with the category name :)
- [00:39:51] <bewest>
If it were up to me I'd look for another name
- [00:41:00] <othermaciej>
do you have "random hookup" yet?
- [00:41:11] <othermaciej>
or "had threesome with once"?
- [00:41:24] <othermaciej>
we need to cover all the range of modern relationships
- [00:43:05] <bewest>
othermaciej: the burden is on the proposed content to prove that it is pervasively and widely expressed in an unsuitably lossy representation before being considered for inclusion ;-)
- [00:43:53] <bewest>
it's a "esoteric until proven vulgar" kind of system
- [00:43:57] <othermaciej>
for "random hookup", I would cite 50% of LiveJournal
- [00:44:06] <bewest>
in fact, maybe that should be our motto or something
- [00:44:26] <bewest>
or at least standard response to spurious proposals
- [00:46:34] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) Quit ("Leaving")
- [00:49:59] <tantek>
bewest, good one
- [00:50:10] <tantek>
othermaciej - the term "hookup" is far too imprecise
- [00:50:26] <tantek>
which is perhaps why it appears to have such a large sample size
- [00:50:28] <yakk>
how do you express the threesome with merely rel
- [00:50:34] <othermaciej>
tantek: clearly we need to use RDF to specify which parts of person A did what to which parts of person B
- [00:50:49] <yakk>
since you might want to mark up the threesome as a group
- [00:50:55] <tantek>
does one need to be in a threesome to truly understand RDF?
- [00:51:14] <yakk>
<span class="groupsex"><a href=".." rel="laid"></a><a ...></a></span>
- [00:51:20] <tantek>
perhaps this is why so few people understand RDF?
- [00:51:25] <yakk>
rdf is simple and beautiful
- [00:51:29] <yakk>
except when its ugly and complicated
- [00:51:45] <tantek>
rdf ducks the hard problems
- [00:51:57] <yakk>
I think if threesomes and RDF were related at all RDF would be a lot more popular
- [00:52:17] <tantek>
yakk, perhaps you have struck upon the solution to evangelizing RDF
- [00:52:36] <yakk>
tantek, between RDF and microformats I think we've got all the hard problems ducked
- [00:53:04] <yakk>
tantek, I just wish we had something in between...
- [00:53:12] <tantek>
yakk, actually, I'm convinced that solving the domain specific schema problems *are* the hard problems, and thus what makes microformats challenging to develop yet actually useful
- [00:53:18] <tantek>
as opposed to another layer of abstraction
- [00:53:28] <tantek>
that just moves symbols around
- [00:54:34] <tantek>
bewest, wow - muse as part of identity - that is interesting
- [00:54:42] <bewest>
:-)
- [00:54:58] <bewest>
it's who we want to be like
- [00:55:03] <bewest>
becoming like ___
- [00:55:38] <bewest>
our ancient Greek friends would have understood it more in that way as well
- [00:56:33] <bewest>
that is the point of role models, isn't it?
- [00:57:12] <yakk>
tantek, well applications of RDF do try to solve the domain specific schema problems. When comparing RDF and microformats the difference seems to be readability vs writeability, and comparing the languages that are used to describe and specify the schemas
- [00:57:26] <bewest>
the problem is what to do for all the people that misunderstood it and used it to encode the romantic semantics
- [00:57:41] <yakk>
tantek, and what I long for is something that's easy for me as a human to write but easy for me as a programmer to parse
- [00:57:43] <tantek>
bewest, the romantic semantics are included
- [00:57:53] <tantek>
it is just that the definition is broader than just the romantic semantics
- [00:57:56] <veeliam>
a muse is inspiration. yes? if sex inspires you then sex is your muse, irregardless of how many muses are involved.
- [00:58:06] <tantek>
yakk, the easy to parse desire is a red herring
- [00:58:14] <yakk>
tantek, and schema specs that are easy for me as a human to understand and something I can give an automated parser to parse
- [00:58:16] <tantek>
open source libraries are built once, easily maintained
- [00:58:20] <tantek>
and trivially shared
- [00:58:22] <yakk>
ok
- [00:58:30] <yakk>
I think that's a cop out
- [00:58:31] <tantek>
thus "easy to parse" is "easy to get the library to parse"
- [00:58:41] <tantek>
it's the end state
- [00:58:47] <yakk>
I've tried writing libraries and the structure of the specifications makes the libraries hard to write
- [00:58:50] <tantek>
the intermediate state of having to write the libraries is merely transition
- [00:58:55] <tantek>
and only a few people need to make that transition
- [00:59:04] <tantek>
yakk, then leave it to others
- [00:59:06] <tantek>
to write the libraries
- [00:59:10] <tantek>
others have for example
- [00:59:14] <othermaciej>
whoops, did I start a real flamewar about RDF accidentally?
- [00:59:17] <tantek>
not everyone needs to be a parser library writer
- [00:59:21] <tantek>
nor should they want to
- [00:59:28] <tantek>
but that's ok
- [00:59:34] <tantek>
this is really a competition of ideas
- [00:59:48] <tantek>
tech based on easy to publish, vs. tech based on easy to parse
- [00:59:50] <yakk>
I like writing parsers, but what I've found when I've tried writing them is that the other parsers out there don't follow the specs
- [00:59:54] <tantek>
i'm willing to let the market pick the winner ;)
- [01:00:01] <yakk>
since they often make things very difficult
- [01:00:14] <othermaciej>
interoperability requires detailed specs on how to parse, including error handling
- [01:00:29] <yakk>
othermaciej, and we're lacking that for microformats, sadly
- [01:00:34] <othermaciej>
but whether it's "easy" or not has relatively little relevance
- [01:00:34] * Loosive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://eswat.ca | Mrh?")
- [01:00:53] <yakk>
othermaciej, it feels like we're in even worse shape than we were for RSS a few years ago
- [01:01:16] <tantek>
RSS didn't really solve a new problem
- [01:01:18] <tantek>
RSS didn't do anything that HTML couldn't do with the simple addition of a <datetime> element
- [01:01:24] <othermaciej>
I disagree
- [01:01:29] <tantek>
in many ways RSS was 90% unnecessary reinvention
- [01:01:33] <othermaciej>
microformats piggyback on HTML parsing
- [01:01:41] <othermaciej>
and the problem of interoperable HTML parsing is getting solved
- [01:01:43] <tantek>
now the mindset of "feeds" - that was the real innovation
- [01:01:49] * yakk nods.
- [01:01:49] <othermaciej>
RSS pretends to be based on XML parsing but that is a lie
- [01:01:58] <tantek>
right othermaciej - on all accounts
- [01:02:13] <jinx>
why is it a lie?
- [01:02:22] <yakk>
I'm kind of cranky about the mozilla microsummaries / live titles, since the problem is already solved with either rss or html <title>
- [01:02:40] <othermaciej>
jinx: an RSS reader that only accepted well-formed XML would not be very useful for processing real-world feeds
- [01:02:44] <tantek>
jinx: because RSS parsers are now tag-soup like rather than strict XML parsers
- [01:02:59] <tantek>
yakk, I agree with you re: microsummaries
- [01:03:04] <tantek>
unnecessary reinvention :(
- [01:03:29] <yakk>
tantek, but people love inventing new wheels
- [01:03:51] <bewest>
in the end there's only need for one kind: the round one
- [01:03:57] <tantek>
yakk, where do they get that impulse?
- [01:04:00] <tantek>
is it taught in school?
- [01:04:02] <tantek>
is it ego?
- [01:04:20] <tantek>
and how can we teach people to unlearn that impulse?
- [01:04:50] <yakk>
I don't know - its an instinct I have had for sure
- [01:05:02] <jinx>
I don't agree it's always a bad thing. If people didn't try and innovate or change things, we'd still be using stone wheels...
- [01:05:16] <tantek>
yakk, BTW, please feel free to add criticism of microsummaries here: http://microformats.org/wiki/page-summary-formats#Issues_2
- [01:05:18] <yakk>
I try to stop and think about it before going forward. And often I miss out on opportunities as a result
- [01:05:35] <tantek>
the answer should be laziness AKA economic incentive
- [01:05:46] <tantek>
that is - it is theoretically easier/simpler/faster to reuse rather than reinvent
- [01:05:49] <yakk>
tantek, its hard to elaborate my microsummary issues beyond "oh my god! why on earth did you do it?"
- [01:06:12] <tantek>
yakk, "the problem is already solved with either rss or html <title>" is a good start
- [01:06:28] <yakk>
tantek, microsummaries might be a technical solution to a ui problem too. As engineers we're used to creating a new protocol to solve a new problem.
- [01:06:43] <tantek>
why is that "as engineers"?
- [01:06:52] <tantek>
is that a discipline taught in "engineering school"?
- [01:07:04] <tantek>
or is it simply that engineers are not taught to reuse enough?
- [01:07:10] <tantek>
or perhaps only *programmers* have this problem
- [01:07:22] <tantek>
because other engineering disciplines very much reuse existing solutions
- [01:07:26] <tantek>
for safety etc. reasons
- [01:07:36] <bewest>
tantek: that's interesting... could it really be a pedagogical issue?
- [01:07:44] <tantek>
bewest, I think it is
- [01:07:59] <bewest>
tantek: most programming excercises in school /are/ to re-implement things
- [01:08:00] <yakk>
tantek, I dunno - its tied up with NIH too
- [01:08:13] <tantek>
no CompSci program that I know of teaches students to use the web to search for the solution first, before inventing it
- [01:08:24] <tantek>
and IMHO - that is a necessary skill that needs to be taught in schools
- [01:08:36] <bewest>
interesting
- [01:08:45] <bewest>
you think mainly undergrad or other levels too?
- [01:08:51] <tantek>
undergrad should be sufficient
- [01:09:05] <tantek>
especially if you were graded on how well you assembled your solution from existing libraries
- [01:09:06] <bewest>
I meant in regard to where the problem resides
- [01:09:10] <tantek>
and how little code you wrote yourself
- [01:09:18] <tantek>
as opposed to the cleverness of all your handwritten code
- [01:09:21] <bewest>
yes
- [01:09:29] <bewest>
hmmm
- [01:09:38] <tantek>
it is a methadological problem
- [01:09:43] <yakk>
I think there's a place for both, but reuse isn't taught enough
- [01:09:46] <othermaciej>
sometimes clever original solutions are good though
- [01:09:49] <tantek>
programmers need to be more like assemblers of building blocks
- [01:09:56] <tantek>
rather than craftsmen of building blocks themselves
- [01:10:03] <tantek>
at least to begin with
- [01:10:14] <bewest>
tantek: I'm sure most teachers would share that view though
- [01:10:19] <othermaciej>
and it's hard to be both good at that, and at having judgment for when reusing something existing or copying a well-known technique is the right thing
- [01:10:31] <tantek>
obviously crafting new building blocks is a necessary skill as well, but IMHO secondary to understanding how to reuse/repurpose existing building blocks
- [01:10:34] <yakk>
tantek, most programmers will never be great craftsmen anyway
- [01:10:35] <othermaciej>
few high-level building blocks can be used as is
- [01:10:41] <tantek>
yakk, that's ok
- [01:11:00] <othermaciej>
usually you have to change them or write a lot of glue
- [01:11:11] <yakk>
tantek, its reality - and they don't need to be. All they'll be doing is connecting components in Visual Basic or reusing javascript toolkits.
- [01:11:13] <othermaciej>
build vs. reuse is a tough tradeoff that depends on your requirements
- [01:11:16] <tantek>
if most programmers are only good at rearranging existing building blocks, I would hypothesize that would solve most programming problems
- [01:11:16] <bewest>
well, presence of glue is the hint
- [01:11:23] <tantek>
bewest, precisely
- [01:11:32] <tantek>
and open protocols and formats are that glue
- [01:11:50] <tantek>
which is one of the reasons I chose to focus a lot of energy on microformats
- [01:12:07] <othermaciej>
for instance in WebKit we use a third-party xml parsing library right now, but if XHTML ever became seriously popular on the web we would probably have to write a custom one to get good enough performance
- [01:12:30] <othermaciej>
general-purpose components by definition do not take into account your specialized needs
- [01:12:39] <othermaciej>
of course, most projects have fewer specialized needs than they think
- [01:12:43] <bewest>
othermaciej: that's a different problem though
- [01:13:11] <bewest>
optimizations come late
- [01:13:18] <yakk>
I mean, how many people out there would write web browsers?!
- [01:13:22] * yakk glances around.
- [01:13:37] <othermaciej>
it takes a total nutjob to write a browser, seriously
- [01:13:41] <yakk>
yeah
- [01:13:48] <othermaciej>
we don't want to associate with that sort
- [01:13:52] * mfbot (n=mfbot@69.55.232.130) has joined #microformats
- [01:13:52] <jibot>
mfbot is a little bot kingryan put together with pieces from mediawiki to report on wiki changes and http://microformats.org/wiki/mfbot
- [01:13:56] <yakk>
you know what's stupider than writing a web browser? Writing *two* web browsers.
- [01:13:57] * yakk sighs.
- [01:14:01] <tantek>
welcome mfbot!
- [01:14:07] <bewest>
yay
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- [01:14:26] <tantek>
yakk, othermaciej, indeed (re: web browsers)
- [01:14:30] <tantek>
awww, come back mfbot!
- [01:14:43] <bewest>
heh
- [01:14:52] * tantek won't be writing another web browser anytime soon.
- [01:14:53] <yakk>
othermaciej, tantek, sadly, I just love working on the app people use all day long.
- [01:15:19] <othermaciej>
yakk: why do you work on Flock then?
- [01:15:22] <othermaciej>
(zing!)
- [01:15:25] <yakk>
oooh
- [01:15:44] <yakk>
othermaciej, (insert some comment about apple market share in anything but mp3 players)
- [01:16:07] <tantek>
now now, be nice kids. othermaciej - shame on you.
- [01:16:21] <yakk>
othermaciej, basically because I don't want to spend my time making pages lay out right...
- [01:16:41] * tantek resists pointing out CSS1 float bugs still existent in Safari. :P
- [01:17:38] <yakk>
CSS1 is so Bubble 1.0.
- [01:17:43] <othermaciej>
tantek: well, now that firefox has changed to our layout model we'll probably never need to fix them
- [01:18:12] <othermaciej>
yakk: I'm just kidding, not much market share here to boast about
- [01:18:26] <othermaciej>
tantek: the min/max layout model makes it nearly impossible to get some float corner cases right
- [01:18:38] * veeliam finds out that the tails extension for firefox has been updated to version 0.3.6
- [01:19:19] * tantek fails to keep resisting
- [01:19:31] <tantek>
(ironically related to microformats)
- [01:19:49] <yakk>
othermaciej, tantek, does dbaron's new layout work change their model to be more CSSlike?
- [01:19:51] <tantek>
othermaciej - go to this URL in both Safari (latest public) and FF/Camino : http://kitchen.technorati.com/contacts/search/maciej
- [01:19:53] <veeliam>
it even hasa spiffy new logo in the bottom
- [01:20:01] <veeliam>
a bit more rounded, yes?
- [01:20:04] <othermaciej>
yakk: it makes it more WebKit-like
- [01:20:09] <tantek>
note that the little white on grey plus boxes do not function in Safari
- [01:20:13] <yakk>
othermaciej, fast? :)
- [01:20:14] <tantek>
but work fine in FF/Camino
- [01:20:17] <tantek>
they are floated
- [01:20:23] <othermaciej>
two-pass, computing min/max widths and then doing the layout
- [01:20:31] <othermaciej>
yakk: they wish :-)
- [01:20:45] <tantek>
so technically it is a CSS1 float / hyperlink activation bug
- [01:20:47] <yakk>
othermaciej, every day I hack on mozilla I'm amazed at how fast it is :)
- [01:21:00] <tantek>
but still a problem relating to CSS1 float support
- [01:21:12] <yakk>
othermaciej, when I was hacking on webkit I was amazed how small it was after spending so much time in mozillaland
- [01:21:27] <othermaciej>
tantek: probably just broken hit testing
- [01:21:38] <othermaciej>
CSS doesn't specify hit testing at all so I could beg out on a technicality
- [01:21:40] <tantek>
still - that tends to imply broken layout
- [01:21:44] <tantek>
since hit testing is all about rectangles
- [01:21:52] <tantek>
which come from layout
- [01:21:53] <othermaciej>
yakk: when were you hacking on webkit?
- [01:22:07] <othermaciej>
tantek: fwiw it's fixed in our SVN trunk
- [01:22:17] <tantek>
really? cool.
- [01:22:20] <tantek>
well done.
- [01:22:33] <othermaciej>
tantek: there's no broken layout, the parent just wasn't acounting for overhanging rects I think, so would terminate the hit test too early
- [01:22:39] <tantek>
then i won't bother finding a CSS "workaround" (ahem) to fix it. ;)
- [01:22:44] <yakk>
othermaciej, hmm - probably right after the initial source drop of webcore. I was looking at is an alternative to mozilla for danger. Probably 3.5 years ago.
- [01:23:29] <othermaciej>
yakk: it would have been hard to use it then, but it's getting trendy for mobile devices now
- [01:24:36] <yakk>
othermaciej, yeah - it was a huge pain in the ass. I ported most of kwq to unix as an experiment. The nokia guys did the same thing later. The tie-ins to KParts were still really tight then too
- [01:24:55] <othermaciej>
the code is a lot more portable now
- [01:26:19] * tantek drafts /wiki/xfn-faq as extension to http://gmpg.org/xfn/faq with initial entry on muse/romantic etc.
- [01:26:41] <yakk>
othermaciej, so I hear. I'll take a look one of these days. Does it run & display on non-mac?
- [01:26:49] <yakk>
(from svn)
- [01:27:11] <othermaciej>
it's been known to
- [01:27:19] <othermaciej>
the other ports have had somewhat spotty maintenance
- [01:27:26] <othermaciej>
Qt port is seeing a lot of action right now though
- [01:27:51] * yakk nods.
- [01:28:06] <yakk>
is it still build on kwq?
- [01:29:42] <othermaciej>
no
- [01:29:51] <othermaciej>
there is no kwq any more
- [01:30:05] <othermaciej>
has it's own platform-independent porting layer
- [01:31:54] <yakk>
nice!
- [01:32:04] <yakk>
it sounds like you've been busy in the past uh - four years :)
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mfbot is a little bot kingryan put together with pieces from mediawiki to report on wiki changes and http://microformats.org/wiki/mfbot
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- [01:49:20] <yakk>
factorial joe
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- [02:19:30] <bewest>
tantek: the more I think about, the more I'm confused over this "romantic" connotation with "muse"
- [02:19:48] <tantek>
it is a romantic notion as opposed to a classical notion
- [02:19:49] <bewest>
tantek: I don't recall any romantic connotation, and don't see it any definitions
- [02:20:36] <tantek>
it is romantic as in emotional rather than the other relationship categories which are more logically determined by various characteristics
- [02:20:55] <tantek>
thus being the romanticism connotation fits
- [02:21:36] <othermaciej>
is a "muse" more romantic than a "friend"?
- [02:21:52] <bewest>
that's a somewhat compelling argument, except that apparently most people interpret otherwise.... as othermaciej just demonstrated
- [02:22:04] <bewest>
othermaciej: no
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- [02:22:14] <bewest>
othermaciej: it's not that kind of relationship
- [02:27:02] <bewest>
tantek: anyway, I guess you know my opinion ;-) if there's any other convincing I can do, let me know
- [02:27:07] <bewest>
(identity)
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- [02:28:43] <othermaciej>
I think historically many well-known muse relationships have involved an undertone of unrequited romantic feeling
- [02:28:52] <tantek>
the notion of identity is not incompatible with the notion of romanticism
- [02:29:10] <tantek>
othermaciej, yes, certainly it is inclusive of that possibility, but not requiring of it
- [02:29:23] <tantek>
it is a superset
- [02:29:49] <tantek>
bewest, would you say that those who inspire us, define us?
- [02:30:07] <yakk>
all I know is that my friend eskil has a 'muse' who he would marry if he had the chance
- [02:30:17] <othermaciej>
isn't he already married?
- [02:30:19] <yakk>
he's the only person who had someone they describe as their muse
- [02:30:50] <bewest>
tantek: that is the Hellenic idea...
- [02:31:02] <yakk>
othermaciej, well, he's getting divorced, but even before all that, his wife knew the place his muse held...
- [02:31:22] <bewest>
tantek: music has an ethos... the idea was that if you listen to a certain kind of music you would /become/ a certain kind of person
- [02:31:26] <othermaciej>
yakk: he's getting divorced? yikes
- [02:31:39] <tantek>
bewest, there is some truth to your hypothesis
- [02:31:46] <othermaciej>
in reality inspiration does not determine identity
- [02:31:50] <othermaciej>
not wholly anyway
- [02:31:51] <tantek>
yakk, muses can be exceptionally powerful
- [02:31:54] <othermaciej>
regardless of what the greeks thought
- [02:32:08] <bewest>
othermaciej: actually, it does... we are most like those we surround ourselves with
- [02:32:17] <othermaciej>
I think of the existence and placement of "muse" as an easter egg in the spec anyway
- [02:32:25] <tantek>
othermaciej, indeed, it is only one input, perhaps not a determining factor
- [02:32:32] <othermaciej>
bewest: but surely our intrinsic nature dictates what we will be inspired by in the first place
- [02:32:32] <tantek>
surround ourselves != muses though
- [02:32:35] <bewest>
how else would you mark up your role model, though
- [02:32:39] <tantek>
therefore, the reasoning does not follow
- [02:32:40] <yakk>
othermaciej, yeah - its sad.
- [02:32:40] <bewest>
tantek: true
- [02:32:48] <tantek>
surrounding ourselves is closer to acquaintances
- [02:32:54] <tantek>
speaking from XFN values
- [02:33:09] <othermaciej>
yakk: what happened? or maybe this is not the right place to talk about it
- [02:33:19] <bewest>
tantek: yes, I'm being too broad, simply to make the connection to identity
- [02:33:32] <yakk>
othermaciej, they grew apart basically. they had issues they didn't deal with along the way
- [02:33:35] <bewest>
the etymology of muse supports identity more than a kinship with crush or date
- [02:33:43] <bewest>
or spouse or sweetheart for that matter
- [02:34:10] <yakk>
othermaciej, half my friends in serious relationships (married/engaged/multi-year) seem to be splitting up at the moment. I don't like it.
- [02:34:39] <othermaciej>
yakk: that's pretty depressing
- [02:34:49] <othermaciej>
hope you don't get caught up in that
- [02:34:51] * othermaciej knocks on wood
- [02:35:26] <tantek>
the depth to which a crush can affect identity is not to be underestimated
- [02:35:27] <yakk>
othermaciej, thanks :) I don' t think I will
- [02:35:45] <bewest>
tantek: yes, but that's true of all values... parent, child...
- [02:35:48] <othermaciej>
all our relationships with others affect our identity
- [02:35:53] <bewest>
exactl
- [02:35:54] <othermaciej>
but that doesn't mean they *are* our identity
- [02:36:00] <tantek>
yes
- [02:36:08] <bewest>
correct
- [02:36:26] <othermaciej>
unless you're, like, co-dependent or something
- [02:38:02] <bewest>
othermaciej: I didn't say muse == identity ... as in the property of "identity"
- [02:39:02] <bewest>
rather, by declaring your inspirations/role models, etc... you declare you want to become
- [02:39:11] <bewest>
and that falls into the category of identity...
- [02:39:14] <othermaciej>
a muse and a role model are not the same thing at all
- [02:39:32] <bewest>
but a muse is closer to a role model than it is a crush or date
- [02:40:10] <bewest>
and in addition, "romantic" is such an overloaded word it's probably not a good category name
- [02:40:22] <othermaciej>
well a crush is just a muse for wanting to date the person in question :-)
- [02:41:00] <othermaciej>
a role model inspires you to want to be like them, a muse inspires you to an action or thought that the muse him/herself would not perform
- [02:41:28] <othermaciej>
(w/ implication of some sort of creative endeavor)
- [02:46:20] <bewest>
othermaciej: "well a crush is just a muse for wanting to date the person in question" <-- this isn't true
- [02:46:30] <bewest>
neither is the statement afterwards
- [02:47:12] <yakk>
bah
- [02:47:18] <yakk>
humbug
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- [02:48:43] <othermaciej>
bewest: the first one was a joke, and the second I stand by
- [02:48:44] <othermaciej>
also
- [02:48:52] <othermaciej>
this whole topic is so totally unimportant
- [02:50:28] <bewest>
:)
- [02:50:42] <yakk>
yeah
- [02:51:27] <bewest>
The poet Sappho of Lesbos was paid the compliment of being called "the tenth Muse" by Plato.
- [02:51:30] <bewest>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muse
- [02:51:41] <bewest>
the muses actually /did/ the things they inspired
- [02:51:47] <bewest>
science, math, poetry, music...
- [02:51:57] <yakk>
muse is also a kind of terrible band
- [02:52:03] <othermaciej>
if you want to go with the classical definition then technically a Muse has to be a goddess
- [02:52:08] <bewest>
so much so that they stood is a symbol for the thing itself
- [02:52:20] <bewest>
Sappho was a real person
- [02:52:27] <othermaciej>
whereas nowadays we would accept the concept of muses that are male or mortal
- [02:52:55] <othermaciej>
sure, but Plato meant it as a metaphor
- [02:53:00] <othermaciej>
whereas nowadays we would mean it literally
- [02:53:04] <mfbot>
[[xfn-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-faq&diff=0&oldid=11204 * Tantek * (+14) added explicit TOC to make permalinking easier
- [02:53:28] <tantek>
thank you mfbot
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- [03:41:02] <jibot>
chimezie is Chimezie Ogbuji - He is a mammal
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csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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?def veeliam
- [06:34:00] <jibot>
veeliam is William Lawrence <http://zaxbypass.com> and does webstuff with his quiddities. Really.
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bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
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- [08:11:14] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [08:38:07] <mfbot>
[[xfn-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-faq&diff=0&oldid=11205 * Veeliam * (+265) Attempted addition of clarification of what muse means.
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- [09:06:49] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [09:30:27] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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- [09:39:56] <BenWard>
’morning all
- [09:45:39] <BenWard>
Just a quick note before I get down to work that This Week in Microformats is late this week, I'm hoping to get it finished tonight but if anyone has anything they think should be included feel free to alert me to it somehow during the day (µf-discuss, private mail, or tag it ‘thisweekinmicroformats’ on delicious/magnolia)
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- [10:24:49] <veeliam>
BenWard, Tails was updated. I don't know if that qualifies for "woo woo" this week material, but just so you know.
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- [10:29:00] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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- [10:42:45] <jibot>
julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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- [11:02:42] <mfbot>
[[User:CedricHuesler]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:CedricHuesler&diff=0&oldid=11206 * CedricHuesler * (+141)
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Cloud is http://www.johnbreslin.com/
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- [11:56:40] <mfbot>
[[page-summary-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=page-summary-formats&diff=0&oldid=11207 * AndyMabbett * (+65) response.
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[[page-summary-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=page-summary-formats&diff=0&oldid=11208 * AndyMabbett * (+29) make link texts unique
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- [12:26:04] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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[[xfn-clarifications]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-clarifications&diff=0&oldid=11209 * AndyMabbett * (-10) testing fix for probelm with seciton-edit link alignments
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- [13:50:14] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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[[hatom-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-faq&diff=0&oldid=11211 * Phae * (+455) Is hAtom intended to replace RSS or Atom -
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Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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- [15:02:25] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [15:09:13] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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- [16:05:55] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
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cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
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csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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[[xfn-clarifications]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-clarifications&diff=0&oldid=11212 * Tantek * (+10) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [17:03:44] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=11213 * Tantek * (+404) added guidelines about not using punctuation in headings, not changing explicitly marked up headings to use wiki markup instead
- [17:04:30] <mfbot>
[[page-summary-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=page-summary-formats&diff=0&oldid=11214 * Tantek * (-94) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Ianloic
- [17:07:51] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=11215 * Tantek * (+299) avoid changing heading text, avoid simple contradictory responses
- [17:09:43] <mfbot>
[[xfn-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-faq&diff=0&oldid=11216 * Tantek * (-265) Reverted edit of Veeliam, changed back to last version by Tantek
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[[xfn-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-faq&diff=0&oldid=11217 * Tantek * (+265) rolled back changes which changed links incorrectly, re-added new content that was added
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[[xfn-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-faq&diff=0&oldid=11218 * Tantek * (+11) moved wiktionary defn of muse from top level see also to be a part of the specific FAQ answer for muse
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- [17:46:58] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [18:06:27] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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[[how-to-play]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=11219 * AndyMabbett * (-41) How to Play - remove unsigned opinon, per third item.
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[[how-to-play]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=11220 * AndyMabbett * (-10) How to Play - remove unsigned opinon, per third item.
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[[accessibility]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=accessibility&diff=0&oldid=11221 * AndyMabbett * (+458) Accessibility of this wiki - duplicate link text unhelpful
- [18:29:46] <mfbot>
[[page-summary-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=page-summary-formats&diff=0&oldid=11222 * AndyMabbett * (+87) restore answer
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[[accessibility]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=accessibility&diff=0&oldid=11223 * AndyMabbett * (+107) Accessibility of this wiki - mark itenm as resolved -
- [18:32:48] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=11224 * Tantek * (+51) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [18:34:34] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=11225 * Tantek * (-1) previous revert restored removed content.
- [18:37:15] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=11226 * Tantek * (+116) added positive suggestion to "avoid simple contradictory response" guideline.
- [18:37:51] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=11227 * Tantek * (+1) typo
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- [19:01:32] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [19:07:41] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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- [19:13:47] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [19:17:24] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-strawman]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/geo-extension-strawman * AndyMabbett * (+1240)
- [19:17:29] <mfbot>
[[luna]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=luna&diff=0&oldid=11228 * AndyMabbett * (+70) geo-extension-strawman
- [19:17:36] <mfbot>
[[mars]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mars&diff=0&oldid=11229 * AndyMabbett * (+70) geo-extension-strawman
- [19:17:56] <mfbot>
[[luna-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=luna-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=11230 * AndyMabbett * (+70) geo-extension-strawman
- [19:18:18] <mfbot>
[[luna-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=luna-examples&diff=0&oldid=11231 * AndyMabbett * (+70) geo-extension-strawman
- [19:19:24] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=11232 * AndyMabbett * (+199) geo-extension-strawman
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[[geo-extension-strawman]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11233 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Geo Extension Straw-Man Proposal - typo
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- [19:23:36] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11234 * AndyMabbett * (+324) Issues
- [19:26:07] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=11235 * AndyMabbett * (+17) Drafts -
- [19:27:23] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11236 * AndyMabbett * (+78) Issues - another
- [19:29:44] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-strawman]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11237 * AndyMabbett * (+0) fmt
- [19:30:56] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=11238 * Tantek * (-88) we don't need THREE links to geo-extension-strawman on the home page, moved to [[geo]] draft instead
- [19:32:27] <mfbot>
[[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=11239 * Tantek * (+125) added [[geo-extension-strawman]] reference and Related Work section
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[[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11240 * AndyMabbett * (+76) Issues - another
- [19:37:04] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11241 * AndyMabbett * (+94) Issues - another
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- [19:42:47] <jibot>
bewest is Ben West and lives in San Francisco, CA. He daydreams about web style software, works at Alexa.com and blogs at http://bewest.wordpress.com/
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- [19:44:29] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
- [19:47:53] <mkaply>
Is it legal for an hReview to have fn and item specified on the same node? like <span class="item fn">Name of item</span>
- [19:49:08] <briansuda>
mkaply, no FN needs to be a child of ITEM
- [19:50:07] <mkaply>
briansuda: I wasn't sure - I had found a case of that on a web page and was handling it in my code. I'll make that an error case
- [19:51:05] <mfbot>
[[hresume-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-feedback&diff=0&oldid=11242 * Tim White * (+208) General Comments -
- [19:54:43] <mkaply>
Found it - http://www.pacificspirit.com/Restaurants-Vancouver.html has every item specified like that - <a class="fn org url item" href="http://www.akbarsown.com/">
- [19:54:59] <briansuda>
that page is not valid
- [19:55:17] <briansuda>
corkd.com is a good example of valid markup
- [19:55:33] <mkaply>
That page is linked from microformats.org hReviews in the wild :)
- [19:56:23] <briansuda>
we need to go through on a regular basis and verify the pages...
- [19:56:52] <briansuda>
the best thing to do is make a note below/behind with the date that says something like "invalid item/fn mark-up 2006-12-11"
- [19:57:18] <mkaply>
actually, those don't have dtreviewed either which is required as well, right?
- [20:00:16] <mfbot>
[[hreview-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=11243 * MikeKaply * (+83) New Examples -
- [20:02:11] <briansuda>
no, (i think) the only thing that is required is the ITEM/FN
- [20:03:15] <mkaply>
briansuda: need to fix the microformats cheat sheet then. It has dtreviewed as required
- [20:03:47] <briansuda>
i just had a look and it wasn't, what is the r## in the lower right-hand corner?
- [20:03:53] <briansuda>
r10 is the newest
- [20:04:01] <mkaply>
cut off when I printed :)
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- [20:04:21] <jibot>
veeliam is William Lawrence <http://zaxbypass.com> and does webstuff with his quiddities. Really.
- [20:04:42] * mkaply goes to print a new cheat sheet
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[[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11244 * AndyMabbett * (+23) Issues -
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[[geo-extension-strawman]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11245 * AndyMabbett * (+10) Notes -
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- [20:11:56] <jibot>
Whafro is M. Jackson Wilkinson, a designer/developer for Grassroots Enterprise in Washington, DC
- [20:12:20] <mfbot>
[[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=11246 * AndyMabbett * (+26) Related Work - clarify
- [20:13:51] <mfbot>
[[Template:geo-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:geo-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=11247 * AndyMabbett * (+131) add geo-extension-strawman
- [20:14:02] <mfbot>
[[Template:geo-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:geo-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=11248 * AndyMabbett * (-26) add geo-extension-strawman
- [20:15:38] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11249 * AndyMabbett * (+65) Geo Extension Straw-Man Proposal - expand intro
- [20:15:59] <mfbot>
[[geo-extension-strawman]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=11250 * AndyMabbett * (+10) Geo Extension Straw-Man Proposal -
- [20:15:59] <Whafro>
I can see on the wiki that there were discussions about a job listing microformat... have those stalled? we have a use for it, and have sketched out our own ideas if they're useful at this point...
- [20:24:30] <mkaply>
so if on an hreview someone specifices a class=rating", class="best" and/or class"worst", which takes precedence? or is that bad markup?
- [20:24:31] <tantek>
Whafro, the job listing discussions were subsumed into general listing discussions see the hlisting-proposal
- [20:24:50] <tantek>
mkaply what do you mean? they all specify different things
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- [20:25:28] <mkaply>
tantek: I thought worst caused rating to be set to 1.0 and best caused rating to be set to 5.0
- [20:25:29] <mkaply>
rating. optional. fixed point integer [1.0-5.0], with optional alternate worst (default:1.0) and/or best (default:5.0), also fixed point integers, and explicit value.
- [20:25:44] <tantek>
rating is the rating, best is the value which indicates the best possible rating, worst is the value which indicates the worst possible rating. (tautological, I know)
- [20:25:57] <tantek>
worst and best indicate the range
- [20:26:04] <tantek>
whereas rating indicates the value
- [20:26:09] <tantek>
within that range
- [20:26:12] <mkaply>
ah. The word range isn't used in that statement at all. I get it now :)
- [20:26:15] <mkaply>
thank you
- [20:26:16] <Whafro>
tantek: I'd seen that, but it doesn't seem that hlisting has anywhere close to the amount of data needed for anything beyond craigslist-style job listings... perhaps I'm missing something, though
- [20:26:23] <tantek>
mkaply you're right, that could be improved
- [20:26:53] <tantek>
whafro - if you think more data is needed - then perhaps provide some research that demonstrates that with real world examples
- [20:27:08] <tantek>
otherwise, cragslist-style job listings is kinda it - and even then hListing proposal does more than that, with tags etc.
- [20:27:25] <Whafro>
well, the cases listed in the job-listing brainstorming had many more types of data
- [20:28:07] <Whafro>
I'll dig through mailing list archives and see if I can piece together that conversation so as not to waste time ;)
- [20:29:06] <tantek>
mkaply, you're right that the word "range" is not used, however, the parenthetical example hints at it at least: (e.g. 6 from 0-10)
- [20:29:17] <tantek>
in the definition of the 'rating' property
- [20:29:49] <mkaply>
tantek: Agreed. I think it might be more useful to split out worst and best in the example though to show them as separate classes they kind of disappear in that sentence
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- [20:30:10] <mfbot>
[[hreview]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=11251 * Tantek * (+29) clarified that best/worst are for setting the range of a rating value
- [20:30:54] <tantek>
mkaply, they are less used classes, and only in the context of when a rating itself is used, thus they are included inline to avoid crowding the top level list of properties
- [20:31:08] <tantek>
Whafro - not job-listing-brainstorming, but job-listing-examples
- [20:31:46] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
- [20:32:29] <Whafro>
right, but -brainstorming consolidates the fields used in -examples, no?
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- [20:33:27] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
- [20:33:41] <tantek>
Whafro - it *should* but often brainstorming includes things from left-field, or things from rarely seen examples, which violates the 80/20 rule of constructing microformats from commonalities found in real world examples.
- [20:34:22] <tantek>
the *-examples pages themselves are supposed to extract and document the implied schema from each example, and perhaps summarize at the bottom. See http://microformats.org/wiki/examples for more on that.
- [20:38:44] <Whafro>
tantek: the last major discussion that I see on the list seemed to end inconclusively, with several people interested in moving forward but no one doing so, and no clear conclusion that hlisting covered this need (the gist seemed counter to that idea)... is this something worth reviving, or am I missing something else?
- [20:39:19] <tantek>
I think it is worth reviving - it would make a nice counterpart to hResume, and perhaps can even build on hListing.
- [20:39:38] <tantek>
bbiab
- [20:39:41] <Whafro>
word
- [20:39:42] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
- [20:42:52] <mkaply>
well this is frustrating. I have found many sites that have the rating embedded in the description as text. So when you get the textContent of the desceription, you get some stars as well. argh
- [20:45:11] <mkaply>
making item and fn the same (not fn as a child) is quite common
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- [20:45:48] * mkaply can't wait to get this toolbar in the wild so people can see what I'm seeing
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- [20:47:05] <briansuda>
mkaply, it might be popular, but it is wrong - i think alot of folks implemented things before the creator and wiki pages were fully updated
- [20:47:35] <mkaply>
briansuda: I just went through the first half of the in the wild pages and I'd say about 75% are tagged incorrect
- [20:47:41] <mkaply>
for hreviews
- [20:48:13] <mkaply>
and this inclusion of the rating in description is going to drive me insane. I'm wondering if I should special case it and remove it
- [20:48:18] <briansuda>
you should mark it on the wiki
- [20:48:33] <mkaply>
briansuda: planning to.
- [20:48:49] <briansuda>
i wouldn't make any 'special case'
- [20:49:27] <mkaply>
I should include all .textContent of class="description" in the description, right? I'm not supposed to exclude subtags if I am parsing it?
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- [20:50:27] <briansuda>
yes you should
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- [21:03:51] <mkaply>
The fn/item thing must have been allowed at one time. A Lot of early hReviews appear to have that pattern
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- [21:04:26] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [21:07:37] <csarven>
is there a relationship between hAtom `author` and hCard?
- [21:13:38] <briansuda>
mkaply, i think early on there was an issue with the hreview-creator which as since been sorted and/or one bad example rippled across alot of implementation across the net
- [21:14:18] <mkaply>
briansuda: A very lot. Wait until you see the page :(
- [21:14:59] <briansuda>
i know, i have done my homework awhile ago for a GRDDL demo - i only found corkd.com as the only good source
- [21:16:43] <mfbot>
[[hreview-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=11252 * MikeKaply * (+1314) New Examples -
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- [21:41:49] <csarven>
could anyone confirm that the hcard photo image is broken under Firefox Tails here http://www.csarven.ca ? (its on #footer address)
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- [21:44:49] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
- [21:46:12] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [21:46:27] <mkaply>
Tails isn't working at all for me on your page. I did discover I need to handle tabs better in names (as does tails export)
- [21:47:31] * vmarks (n=vmarks@cpe-065-190-165-181.nc.res.rr.com) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
- [21:48:35] <csarven>
sometimes i have to click on the mf icon twice to show it properly. in any case, im not sure why the image shows broken even though the resource exists
- [21:49:38] <mkaply>
csarven: is tails yours?
- [21:49:56] <csarven>
pardon?
- [21:50:36] * Prometheus^^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Connection timed out)
- [21:50:46] <mkaply>
I was wondering if you were the author. Is the problem in Firefox tails or on your web page?
- [21:51:05] <csarven>
no im not the author of Tails
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- [21:51:45] <csarven>
i am questioning if the problem exists solely on my Tails extensions or if there is an mf implementation error on my part
- [21:52:03] <mkaply>
ah
- [21:52:14] <csarven>
will try reinstalling Tails
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- [22:03:34] <veeliam>
csarven, tails has been updated
- [22:03:53] <csarven>
0.3.6 ?
- [22:03:53] <veeliam>
and your card image is broken
- [22:03:59] <veeliam>
yes.
- [22:04:03] <veeliam>
http://factoryjoe.com/blog/hcard
- [22:04:04] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
- [22:04:07] <csarven>
i get the same result. i do not know why
- [22:04:13] <veeliam>
his image appears
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- [22:06:14] <veeliam>
i'm using 0.3.6
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- [22:38:39] <jibot>
drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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- [22:44:53] <jibot>
Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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- [23:02:12] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=11253 * MarBry * (-3) Tools, Test Cases and Additional Research -
- [23:25:48] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
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- [23:30:45] <jibot>
vmarks is in NC
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- [23:32:41] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=11254 * AndyMabbett * (+3) rv. linkspam ----------------------------------------------???
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- [23:56:31] <veeliam>
csarven, did you get your image to appear?
- [23:57:10] * mfbot (n=mfbot@69.55.232.130) has joined #microformats
- [23:57:38] <csarven>
no i couldn't. the image is not physically broken and the mf afaik is okay. there must be something im overlooking
- [23:57:42] <csarven>
it was working before
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