IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-01-17
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:00:54] <mkaply>
tantek: which is exactly what I'm hoping people see with operator. eventful doesn't have 30 Boxes support, for instance. but now it does
- [00:01:20] <tantek>
right - no reason for all the combinatorics of every site with every other site
- [00:01:26] <tantek>
to have to be explicit
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- [00:05:34] * mkaply rewrites include handling
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- [01:06:11] <mfbot>
[[screencasts]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=screencasts&diff=0&oldid=12558 * JohnAllsopp * (+273) this year -
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- [05:24:21] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12559 * PeterDaams * (+177) Added Travellerspoint
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- [06:53:10] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12560 * Mike * (+578) Working straw schema - - Added more detail to working schema. Included 'hcite' as root element.
- [07:04:37] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12561 * Mike * (+933) Brian's Straw format - Moved explanations out of working schema list to separate section
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- [07:10:13] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12562 * Mike * (+259)
- [07:11:54] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12563 * Mike * (+0) too quick with the control-s: last edit changed some examples to use 'hcite' as the root class name. This edit fixes a typo that has been around since the beginning of the page.
- [07:20:00] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12564 * Mike * (+325) Working straw schema - added explanation of notation in working straw schema section
- [07:21:06] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12565 * Mike * (-4) Working straw schema -
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- [09:21:27] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12566 * AndyMabbett * (+70) New Examples - add exmaple to Travellerspoint entry
- [09:43:02] <Faerris>
Hello.
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- [10:31:42] <julianstahnke>
Flash 9 for Linux; the final is out.
- [10:31:53] <julianstahnke>
oh bugger, wrong channel! sorry
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- [11:00:18] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12567 * AndyMabbett * (-70) Discussion of Straw Format elements - fixes
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- [12:11:45] <drewinthehead>
anyone good with hReview?
- [12:12:32] <Matt1>
drewinthehead, not really I just used the generator
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- [12:13:19] <drewinthehead>
yeah, me too, Matt1 - the generator is good
- [12:13:35] <drewinthehead>
I'm wondering if it's ok to next the reviewer inside the item
- [12:14:20] <drewinthehead>
I think that's probably fine, but wanted another opinion
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- [12:16:45] <drewinthehead>
the thing that's concerning me is the two vcards and potential for confusion
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- [13:17:33] <drewinthehead>
briansuda: how's your hReview skillz?
- [13:17:47] <briansuda>
good enough, what's up?
- [13:18:11] <drewinthehead>
wondering if it's ok to include the reviewer inside the item
- [13:18:25] <briansuda>
sure
- [13:18:38] <drewinthehead>
both have vcards, which opens up possibilities for confusion
- [13:18:42] <briansuda>
MFs don't discriminate on where NOT to put things
- [13:18:47] <briansuda>
only where TO put things
- [13:19:00] <drewinthehead>
sure, just wondering about the practicalities of it
- [13:19:01] <briansuda>
well, a review is set off by class="reviewer hcard"
- [13:19:09] <drewinthehead>
true
- [13:19:09] <briansuda>
the other hCard is just ignored
- [13:19:12] <briansuda>
do you have a link?
- [13:19:18] <drewinthehead>
ok, i'll go for it
- [13:19:26] <briansuda>
i have an XSLT that groks hReview i can compare the output for you
- [13:19:31] <drewinthehead>
not yet ... i'll try this out and see how it parses
- [13:19:45] <drewinthehead>
thanks ... i'll get something online in a bit
- [13:19:51] <briansuda>
i'll be around
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- [13:27:03] <drewinthehead>
so it should be ok to next the vcards directly too?
- [13:27:07] <drewinthehead>
^nest
- [13:27:23] <briansuda>
hm..
- [13:27:25] <briansuda>
that depends.
- [13:27:35] <briansuda>
a nested vCard will have several of the same values
- [13:27:48] <briansuda>
so if the inner most vCard had a URL, then that URL applies to BOTH
- [13:28:03] <briansuda>
this is because there are/will be issues of nest vcards that are AGENTS
- [13:28:25] <drewinthehead>
yes, and the photo property from hReview item will could apply to the hCard ... best avoided
- [13:28:51] <briansuda>
exactly
- [13:29:16] <briansuda>
so if you don't want the photo to be part of the hCard, then keep it outside of that, but inside the item
- [13:30:25] <drewinthehead>
got it.
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- [14:17:00] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=12568 * AndyMabbett * (+90) Q&A - include-pattern-examples
- [14:18:31] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern-examples * AndyMabbett * (+181) work in progress
- [14:20:07] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples&diff=0&oldid=0 * AndyMabbett * (+181) include-pattern-examples moved to include-pattern-examples-in-wild
- [14:27:59] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12569 * AndyMabbett * (+380) West Midland Bird Club examples
- [14:28:45] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=12570 * AndyMabbett * (+8) Related pages - dab
- [14:30:12] <mfbot>
[[this-week-pending]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=this-week-pending&diff=0&oldid=12571 * AndyMabbett * (+108) This month in..?
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- [14:38:08] <bergie>
hehe... "Do not use Microformats. They are a very bad idea full stop. Look at the following email phishing attack that could be constructed automatically if Microformats were used by yourself and your previous company..."
- [14:38:12] <bergie>
http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/getting-started-with-microformats.html
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- [14:45:39] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12572 * AndyMabbett * (+14) Examples -
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- [14:46:35] <mfbot>
[[currency]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency&diff=0&oldid=12573 * Adam Craven * (+13) Related microformats -
- [14:53:37] <mfbot>
[[Template:include-pattern-related-pages]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:include-pattern-related-pages * AndyMabbett * (+541) new template (wording based on that for hcard)
- [14:54:19] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12574 * AndyMabbett * (+14) related pages
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- [14:54:40] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12575 * AndyMabbett * (+0) {{}}
- [14:55:41] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=12576 * AndyMabbett * (-681) related pages template
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- [14:58:27] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=12577 * AndyMabbett * (+62) related pages template (&minor copy edits)
- [14:59:23] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-issues&diff=0&oldid=12578 * AndyMabbett * (+84) related pages template, heading
- [15:01:19] <mfbot>
[[include-pattern-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12579 * AndyMabbett * (+39) Examples - copy edit
- [15:03:00] <mfbot>
[[product-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=product-examples&diff=0&oldid=12580 * Adam Craven * (+961) /* Added CDs under Ben Sherman*/
- [15:04:36] <mfbot>
[[product-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=product-examples&diff=0&oldid=12581 * Adam Craven * (+5) CDs -
- [15:06:12] <mfbot>
[[product-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=product-examples&diff=0&oldid=12582 * AndyMabbett * (+1) typo
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- [15:18:33] <briansuda>
drewinthehead, did you get all the hreview data sorted?
- [15:20:24] <DanC_lap>
briansuda, do you know Mike Samuel <msamuel@google.com>? do you suppose he works for google?
- [15:20:39] <briansuda>
i have been sending him a few offlist emails
- [15:20:45] <briansuda>
i would assume he works for google
- [15:21:01] <briansuda>
if you google his name the two hits are a google blog entry about google calendar and..
- [15:21:12] <briansuda>
a java app for RFC 2445 rrule parsing
- [15:21:38] <DanC_lap>
oh... maybe I've seen his stuff before...
- [15:22:43] <briansuda>
http://freshmeat.net/projects/rfc2445java/
- [15:23:26] <DanC_lap>
I bookmarked it as http://code.google.com/p/google-rfc-2445/ <- http://del.icio.us/connolly/calendar
- [15:23:39] <DanC_lap>
on oct 31
- [15:23:47] <briansuda>
:)
- [15:24:03] <briansuda>
that looks like the same guy and if he works for google calendar and is interested in hCal ...
- [15:24:13] <DanC_lap>
indeed...
- [15:24:17] <briansuda>
it is not hard to make the jump to the conclusion
- [15:24:36] * DanC_lap considers speculating wildly in a blog item ;-)
- [15:24:44] <briansuda>
did you also see in the mailing-list BBC channel 4 is looking to mark-up their HTML with hCal too?
- [15:24:52] <briansuda>
for show listings
- [15:25:08] <DanC_lap>
no; I only follow the -dev list
- [15:25:33] <monkinetic>
briansuda: saw that - that rocks
- [15:26:40] * briansuda searches for archived message
- [15:27:02] <briansuda>
http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-January/008129.html
- [15:31:09] <DanC_lap>
thanks; while looking for it, I got distracted by bits about the conference schedule creator, censorship, etc.
- [15:33:31] <briansuda>
the conference scheduler is a very cool little web app. Rapid hCalendar conference creator. Hopefully soon we can move it into Hg as well
- [15:34:42] <monkinetic>
does confabb support hcal?
- [15:35:03] <monkinetic>
wow, no
- [15:37:13] * DanC_lap has been waiting for somebody like Andy Mabbett to show up in uf-land; it was inevitable...
- [15:40:19] <DanC_lap>
and tantek was just slightly impatient enough with him that Joe Andrieu felt compelled to play ACLU...
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- [15:43:54] <mkaply>
Anyone up for a geo display namequestion? Should the text content of an abbr geo take precendence if the geo is contained in a vcard? Or should I always use the fn of the vcard if the geo is in a vcard?
- [15:44:19] <briansuda>
do you have any stats from real sites?
- [15:44:24] <monkinetic>
hm.
- [15:44:28] <briansuda>
i would guess that it is probably the same thing
- [15:44:45] <briansuda>
otherwise, probably the FN\
- [15:45:11] <monkinetic>
well, in a vcard, the fn is likely my name, but I've linked the geo to "Gilbert, AZ" which would be the desired text label on the geo (for me)
- [15:45:54] <briansuda>
this is true, but that is still where YOU are
- [15:46:10] <briansuda>
in a vCard the GEO is not suppost to be a representation of an address, but of the PERSON
- [15:46:39] <briansuda>
the same would go for a GEO in an iCal, you probably want to use the SUMMARY and not the location
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- [15:47:10] <monkinetic>
hm.
- [15:47:48] <monkinetic>
so brian: http://redmonk.net/about-this-site/ <-- what shoud that geo on "Gilbert AZ" represent?
- [15:48:03] <mkaply>
http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/kidderminster/field.htm
- [15:48:08] <mkaply>
is an example
- [15:48:32] <mkaply>
the textContent of the geos is some UK identifier. So that's what I am using
- [15:48:42] <mkaply>
but they are in a vcard where I could use the fn
- [15:49:06] * briansuda is looking and multi-tasking badly
- [15:51:53] <briansuda>
the GEO in a vCard is tied NOT to an address because you can only have one GEO per vCard, so it is tied to the PERSON. Now, that person is at an address, so your mark-up is not technically or semantically incorrect
- [15:52:11] <briansuda>
the GEO SHOULD follow you as you move in physical space, which is not practical
- [15:52:25] <monkinetic>
huh
- [15:52:33] <briansuda>
so it is normally used as place where you can normally be found
- [15:52:43] <monkinetic>
(not until i can update it in real time from my *haha* apple iphone *muahahahaha*
- [15:52:45] <monkinetic>
)
- [15:53:08] <briansuda>
so, in a vCard, FN would make the most sense in the display
- [15:53:36] <briansuda>
if you have a page of loads of hCards, in the drop-down (IMHO) it will be easier to see a list of names rather than some thing like 123 main street
- [15:53:48] <monkinetic>
true
- [15:53:58] <briansuda>
you can more easily associate "john doe" than "1234 main street" and click the one you want
- [15:54:51] <monkinetic>
mkaply: maybe in the menu, do:
- [15:55:22] <monkinetic>
[ + ] > hcards > steveivy > contact | maps | etc
- [15:55:35] <monkinetic>
or is that too complex?
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- [16:04:56] <mkaply>
monkinetic: too complex :)
- [16:05:04] <monkinetic>
:)
- [16:05:44] <mkaply>
So ignore the geo's textContent completely if it is in a vcard
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- [16:06:30] <briansuda>
i would say so yes
- [16:09:27] <mkaply>
ok.
- [16:09:39] * mkaply goes to write a dom node walker
- [16:10:14] * monkinetic wonders is a stripped-down jquery could be used
- [16:10:30] <monkinetic>
jquery's dom selection code is way easy
- [16:14:53] * mkaply wishes there was an easier way to check nodes up a parent chain
- [16:15:19] <mkaply>
right now i get all the microformats in the document and then walk down each microformat and see if the node is a child
- [16:15:29] <mkaply>
is there a better way?
- [16:15:30] <monkinetic>
a child of what?
- [16:26:41] <mkaply>
like is geo a child of a node with the class vcard
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- [16:28:11] <briansuda>
ancestor:: is the best way in XSLT to look up the tree
- [16:30:53] <mkaply>
briansuda: If I see something in XSLT, can I probably do it in Xpath?
- [16:31:07] <briansuda>
yes
- [16:31:12] <briansuda>
let me find something
- [16:31:37] * mkaply needs to learn more xpath
- [16:32:10] <mkaply>
"//siteMapNode[@title='4']/ancestor::*"
- [16:32:17] <mkaply>
for example
- [16:32:44] <briansuda>
ancestor::*[name() = 'del' = false() and contains(concat(' ', normalize-space(@class), ' '),' vcard ')]//*[name() = 'del' = false() and contains(concat(' ', normalize-space(@class), ' '),' fn ')]
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- [16:45:12] * mkaply is liking xpath more and more.
- [16:45:26] <mkaply>
briansuda: what is the del stuff?
- [16:45:51] <briansuda>
that is a test we built, it isn't manditory, but in HTML there is a <del> element
- [16:46:08] <briansuda>
if you find microformats a childs of that, then they were 'deleted' and shouldn't be considered
- [16:47:00] <briansuda>
i would not worry about that too much
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- [16:49:47] <mkaply>
oops. When I create the vcard for the geo it contains a geo :) too much recursion
- [16:50:12] <briansuda>
:)
- [16:50:22] * mkaply already had a solution for that
- [16:50:22] <briansuda>
that is why you should only take the first instance
- [16:50:48] <mkaply>
briansuda: well in this case, I have a way to create an hcard that only gets fn - for cases where I don't need the whole content
- [16:51:11] <briansuda>
right
- [16:51:19] <mkaply>
There. fns for the locations. Sweet.
- [16:51:35] <briansuda>
in vCard
- [16:51:49] <briansuda>
in hCal it is something else :)
- [16:51:56] <mkaply>
yeah :)
- [16:52:20] <mkaply>
Someone in one of my comments mentioned this site
- [16:52:21] <mkaply>
http://rosebank.org/
- [16:52:27] <mkaply>
Must be a microformats person that goes to that church :)
- [16:52:46] <Matt1>
is hproduct applicatable to shopping cart software ? and if it is, is it for product listing or product info page ?
- [16:53:02] <tantek>
hproduct doesn't exist yet
- [16:53:11] <briansuda>
you should see my REFERER log and all the people that use X2V
- [16:53:17] <tantek>
the product microformat is still in the research phase
- [16:53:21] <mkaply>
geo in a vevent is non standard, right?
- [16:53:31] * mkaply sees this on ocono.com
- [16:53:45] <monkinetic>
mkaply: geo in a vevent makes a lot of sense though
- [16:53:49] <briansuda>
according to the iCal RFC you can use GEO in an event
- [16:53:54] <Matt1>
tnatek, ok thanks. I will hold off until it is finished.
- [16:54:06] <mkaply>
ok. I'll make this code work for hcalendar as well
- [16:54:26] <briansuda>
Matt1, you should look into what has been done so far, try to implement and let us know of issues/prolems, ideas, etc
- [16:54:44] <briansuda>
you can help the format evolve from your real-world examples
- [16:55:32] <briansuda>
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2445.html just do a quick search for GEO
- [16:56:08] <Matt1>
briansuda, will do that for the next release. Just looking for a good starting point.
- [16:56:43] <Matt1>
like what would be the best way to name classes for this: http://mattiputkonen.net/1-0/usability-c-4.html
- [16:58:50] <briansuda>
you should use the most semantic names, but this should get you started http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting
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- [17:05:57] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=12583 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Example - fmt
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- [17:12:28] <mfbot>
[[product-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=product-examples&diff=0&oldid=12584 * Adam Craven * (+25) CDs -
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- [17:14:19] <mfbot>
[[product-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=product-examples&diff=0&oldid=12585 * Adam Craven * (+4) CDs -
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- [17:43:17] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12586 * Mike * (+17) Working straw schema - Added date accessed to working straw schema, like I said I did an hour ago and forgot.
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- [17:45:34] <mkaply>
briansuda: do you know how to do an ancestor expression that includes self?
- [17:45:41] <briansuda>
sure
- [17:45:48] <briansuda>
ancestor-or-self::
- [17:46:03] <briansuda>
same idea as decendant-or-self::
- [17:46:37] <briansuda>
it is best to avoid that as much as possible because it is pretty processor intensive as the tree can get big quick as you go down!
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- [17:51:19] <mkaply>
briansuda: I can't believe there was ever i time I looped through dom nodes to find things :)
- [17:51:21] <mkaply>
xpath is nice
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- [17:51:53] <briansuda>
once you get used to the syntax it is very useful
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- [17:52:24] <briansuda>
there are a few tricky things to wrap your head around that are not intuitive as in proceedural lanuages
- [17:52:53] <briansuda>
but otherwise, you can do loads of VERY interesting things like check if two monster XPATHS are equal and it returns a BOOL
- [17:53:04] <briansuda>
it is useful when doing FN==ORG without setting variables
- [17:53:36] <briansuda>
if you need help, feel free to email me offlist
- [17:53:47] <briansuda>
or grab me in IRC or IM
- [17:54:41] * briansuda needs to head out soon to find food
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- [18:12:14] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=12587 * Leikam * (+113) Upcoming - 2007-01 LA Get Together
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- [18:24:41] <mfbot>
[[product-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=product-examples&diff=0&oldid=12588 * AndyMabbett * (+8) Tsk! ;-)
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- [18:35:48] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-la-microformats-gettogether-planning]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2007-01-la-microformats-gettogether-planning * Leikam * (+630)
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- [18:48:55] <veeliam>
tantek, is the dinner for Thursday night still on?
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- [19:06:43] <tantek>
yes!
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- [19:07:33] <mkaply>
are you guys going to do something at sxsw? (are people coming for that)
- [19:07:49] <monkinetic>
w00: ma.gnolia has lightwaight uF feeds: http://wiki.ma.gnolia.com/Ma.gnolia_Feeds_Guide#Microformats
- [19:08:24] * mkaply needs to do hatom support
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- [19:11:42] <kingryan>
monkinetic: I think we have some of those at technorati, too
- [19:11:49] <kingryan>
but I don't remember where
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- [19:22:28] <mkaply>
brian: is there any way you could create a way for me to send a html snippet to you and you return a vcard or ical? I'd prefer not to embed your code :)
- [19:23:30] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-18-sf-microformats-dinner&diff=0&oldid=12589 * Veeliam * (+49) added self
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- [19:32:34] <monkinetic>
Ma.gnolia users: I've created a uF feature requests page on the ma.gnolia wiki: http://wiki.ma.gnolia.com/Microformat_Feature_Requests
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- [20:13:56] <factoryjoe>
monkinetic++
- [20:14:08] * monkinetic chuckles
- [20:18:05] <mkaply>
briansuda: there?
- [20:18:16] <briansuda>
sure, what's up?
- [20:18:26] <factoryjoe>
hey mkaply
- [20:18:31] <factoryjoe>
have you seen wikidentity.com?
- [20:18:38] <mkaply>
briansuda: It looks like your transform doesn't handle a non fully qualified URL in a vcard?
- [20:18:57] <briansuda>
example?
- [20:19:16] <mkaply>
http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/kidderminster/field.htm
- [20:19:51] <mkaply>
briansuda: i learned recently that in Javascript, foo.href != foo.getAttribute('href')
- [20:20:15] <briansuda>
ok, i didn't know that either.
- [20:20:22] <briansuda>
i avoid client-side as much as possible
- [20:20:37] <briansuda>
OK, how are you extracting the URL from that LINK? from xsltproc or from the PHP?
- [20:20:53] <mkaply>
briansuda: in my case, I'm using Js so I can get at the href.
- [20:21:05] <mkaply>
I wasn't sure if in your XSLT there was some way to get the .href vs. the attribute href
- [20:21:16] <factoryjoe>
briansuda: what's your take on display:none microformatted data?
- [20:21:27] <mkaply>
With firefox at least (I think it's DOM) .href is always fully qualified
- [20:21:39] <mkaply>
getattr(href) is exactly what is on the page
- [20:21:46] <briansuda>
if the data is important then it should be visible, if you are hidding data, then why would you want it in the vcard
- [20:21:58] <briansuda>
but more imortantly, out-of-site, out-of-mind
- [20:22:01] <factoryjoe>
have you been reading the list on inline styles?
- [20:22:27] <mkaply>
briansuda: but what about geos? Geos aren't designed for human eyes
- [20:22:28] <briansuda>
OK, i'll have a look at why the XSLT is not creating a fully qualified URL, it should
- [20:22:38] <factoryjoe>
i don't want to advocate for hidden stuff; people are going to do it anyway
- [20:22:50] <briansuda>
well, GEOs CAN be, and the ABBR allows for human-readablility, just like ISO dates
- [20:22:51] <mkaply>
briansuda: I added a feature in Operator (private for my use only) that does your transforms so I can compare them to mine
- [20:22:53] <factoryjoe>
from a parsing perspective, will you look at calculated css?
- [20:23:23] <briansuda>
no, i won't do anything with CSS, i am not planning on ALSO creating a CSS parser :)
- [20:23:45] <briansuda>
ok, i'll have a look at the XSLT hang on
- [20:24:11] <factoryjoe>
so then you will parse hidden microformatted data?
- [20:24:36] <briansuda>
yes, it will parse hidden data
- [20:24:51] <briansuda>
i am JUST looking at the DOM tree and nothing to do with CSS
- [20:24:58] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [20:25:00] <factoryjoe>
good to know
- [20:25:10] <briansuda>
it is more of a social issue, i can get at the META elements too, but we don't use those
- [20:25:22] <briansuda>
infact the default browser CSS is to hide META elements
- [20:25:33] <briansuda>
yuou can create in CSS
- [20:25:41] <briansuda>
meta { display: block; }
- [20:25:50] <briansuda>
and it makes it visible
- [20:26:10] <sreynen>
even in <head>?
- [20:26:36] <briansuda>
sure
- [20:26:46] <briansuda>
it is just hidden in the browser default
- [20:27:01] <sreynen>
interesting
- [20:27:05] <briansuda>
yup
- [20:27:20] <briansuda>
you can create your own bookmarklet to peek inside that stuff and display it
- [20:27:30] <briansuda>
i think Eric Meyer has some same code to do this
- [20:28:25] <factoryjoe>
he does
- [20:28:27] <factoryjoe>
head {display:block;}
- [20:28:31] <factoryjoe>
but as it's hidden it gets spammed
- [20:28:32] <sreynen>
that opens up all sorts of possibilities
- [20:28:36] <factoryjoe>
but so does text that's 1px or 2px
- [20:28:43] <factoryjoe>
or the same color as the background
- [20:30:40] * briansuda is looking into the URL issue
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- [20:44:23] <briansuda>
ok mkaply, i think the URL is working again
- [20:49:38] <sreynen>
brian, i can't get any <head> elements visible in IE. works in Firefox, Safari, and Opera though
- [20:50:54] <briansuda>
good to know
- [20:54:52] <monkinetic>
mkaply: just clicked on debug under the operator menu... kickass!
- [20:55:37] <monkinetic>
next up: rm dup contacts in the menu :-)
- [20:56:32] <mkaply>
monkinetic: What do you mean?
- [20:56:42] <mkaply>
(dup contacts)
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- [20:57:19] <monkinetic>
mkaply: http://ma.gnolia.com/html/hreview/people/steveivy/
- [20:57:20] * ChanServ sets mode +o KevinMarks
- [20:57:34] <monkinetic>
after it loads, look at the contact list in the operator menu
- [20:58:09] <mkaply>
yeah. I noticed that when I was looking at magnolia.
- [20:58:30] <mkaply>
I have code to remove dupes
- [20:58:49] <mkaply>
The problem is I don't just want to remove hcard dupes because the name is the same - I need to look at all the data
- [20:58:55] <mkaply>
I have to think about that problem
- [20:59:24] <briansuda>
there has been talk about merging data as well, but that would be just as hard unless you had a UID like EMAIL
- [20:59:56] <KevinMarks>
that is tricky one
- [21:00:08] <KevinMarks>
Apple's address book merges them
- [21:00:10] <KevinMarks>
by name I think
- [21:00:34] <KevinMarks>
which works on a personal address book, as you end up disambiguating simialr naems yourself
- [21:00:46] <KevinMarks>
and you're less likely to have me and the other Kevin Marks's in
- [21:00:46] <mkaply>
an hresume for instance has multiples of the sae name, but they shouldn't be merged
- [21:00:48] <KevinMarks>
much harder for a shared repository
- [21:01:15] <monkinetic>
hm. fair enough
- [21:01:19] <sreynen>
i'm working on a shared repository
- [21:01:32] <monkinetic>
mkaply: does operator do that if they are loaded as includes?
- [21:01:49] <monkinetic>
if each review on that page used include for the hcard?
- [21:02:03] <sreynen>
i'm using a 2/3 of source URL, FN, and phone number
- [21:02:21] <sreynen>
under the assumption that only one of those will change at a time
- [21:02:53] <mkaply>
monkinetic: in that scenario, each review would still have a unique vcard that referenced a "master" vcard, right?
- [21:03:27] <monkinetic>
mkaply: not sure, need to look at the include semantics
- [21:03:32] <monkinetic>
but yeah i think that's it
- [21:04:07] <mkaply>
So I would still display them all. In the hresume case, I try to disambiguate the entries by putting org in parenthesis after it
- [21:04:17] <mkaply>
The fact is I need to be smarter about sorting/removing dupes.
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- [21:19:29] <mkaply>
Are two tags that are on a web page that point to different URLs the same tag or different tags?
- [21:19:54] <kingryan>
is that a brain teaser?
- [21:21:07] <briansuda>
after you extract the TAG from the tagspace then you can take Unique tags
- [21:21:34] <kingryan>
are we talking about tags or elements? or the TAG?
- [21:22:16] <mkaply>
the rel=tag elements themselves.
- [21:22:32] <mkaply>
I'm kind of having a philosophical problem with Operator that I need an opinion on.
- [21:22:52] <mkaply>
In my mind, the goal of Operator is to provide the ability to take the microformat info on the page and do things with it that are not there by default on the page - link the information
- [21:23:21] <mkaply>
So for instance, right now I provide a way to open the web page for a contact in Operator. In my mind, this is probably unnecessary because there is a link on the page
- [21:23:52] <mkaply>
Someone suggested adding opening link web pages to the tag menu, but again, this seemed wrong to me because those links are on the page
- [21:24:11] <mkaply>
Plus, if I did that, you might have multiple of the same links because they point to different URLs
- [21:24:50] <mkaply>
Any opinions on that thought?
- [21:31:23] <sreynen>
what about taking the tags and linking to them in multiple tag spaces?
- [21:37:39] * bear_afk is now known as bear
- [21:39:09] <mkaply>
sreynen: that's really what I do today. The idea being that the microformat information is the fact that it is a "tag" and I can link that to other tagspaces
- [21:39:50] <mkaply>
(I actually renamed Tag(s) in Operator to Tagspace(s)
- [21:40:14] <sreynen>
for many of the tagspaces, you could use APIs to pull in related information
- [21:40:30] <sreynen>
e.g. images from flickr
- [21:41:37] <briansuda>
there are lots of posiblities, such as setting your 'preferred' tags space
- [21:41:59] <briansuda>
then any tag you find you you can tack onto your preferred tag space
- [21:42:24] <briansuda>
much like the browser search box, preferred search engine
- [21:43:58] <KevinMarks>
sreynen: indeed - that is what the tehcnorati tags pages do
- [21:44:04] <KevinMarks>
always did, actually
- [21:44:15] <KevinMarks>
though recently we've got much mroe tag sources
- [21:47:08] <mkaply>
but is my conclusion about the semantic information correct? The goal is to provide new ways to use the semantic information on the page, not just to provide access in a new way?
- [21:49:03] <KevinMarks>
well, the idea of tagspaces is to provide alternatives for disambiguation purposes if desired by the author
- [21:50:15] <KevinMarks>
how the parser handles it is up to them
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- [21:51:01] <KevinMarks>
at Technorati we ignore tagspaces in our results, and provide references to multiple other common tags
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[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12590 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+12) Drafts -
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[[include-pattern-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12591 * AndyMabbett * (+118) "object" or "a"?
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[[include-pattern-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12592 * AndyMabbett * (+12) '''
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[[include-pattern-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12593 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Include Pattern Examples in the Wild - ,
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[[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=12594 * AndyMabbett * (+122) Adding Microformats to Web Services - Microformat Feature Requests on ma.gnolia wiki
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[[hcard-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=12595 * AndyMabbett * (+293) wikidentity.com
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[[hcard-implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=12596 * AndyMabbett * (+13)
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[[hcard-implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=12597 * AndyMabbett * (-1) New Implementations -
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[[Template:hcard-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:hcard-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12598 * AndyMabbett * (+68) advocacy
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[[Template:hcalendar-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:hcalendar-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12599 * AndyMabbett * (+81) advocacy
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[[Template:hreview-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:hreview-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12600 * AndyMabbett * (+97) advocacy
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[[Template:hatom-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:hatom-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12601 * AndyMabbett * (+98) advocacy (& copy edits)
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[[Template:geo-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:geo-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12602 * AndyMabbett * (+79) advocacy
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[[Template:geo-related-pages]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:geo-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12603 * AndyMabbett * (+0) cap
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[[Template:rel-tag-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:rel-tag-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12604 * AndyMabbett * (+76) advocacy
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