IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-01-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:08] <tantek> they are better than presentational names, and not as good as more semantic names
  2. [00:00:08] <factoryjoe> that should tell you how behind I am
  3. [00:00:20] <bewest> hmmm
  4. [00:00:31] * Baristo cheers.
  5. [00:00:37] <tantek> factoryjoe, consider reordering the books you have to read in the order of which books may help you get less behind quicker
  6. [00:00:59] <factoryjoe> indeed
  7. [00:01:01] <JamieKnight> i have a quick quiestion: dose anyone know if you can use a K800i as a G3 modem over bluetooth EDR?
  8. [00:01:10] <tantek> good point JamieKnight, Cederholm's books are excellent on this topic as well
  9. [00:01:23] <bewest> tantek: dunno, I think the issue there is not so much the name, but rather the complacency in authoring techniques that is encouraged
  10. [00:01:35] <JamieKnight> i like Dans books, borrowed them form work.
  11. [00:01:42] <bewest> if someone /chooses/ a name, at least they spent some effort doing so
  12. [00:01:53] <bewest> they can learn to choose /better/ names
  13. [00:01:57] * JamieKnight has not got the money for the books, they are extremely expensive.
  14. [00:02:08] <tantek> but if that effort leads to a presentational name, then the effort was worse than wasted - it was put to a bad end
  15. [00:02:24] <bewest> effort can always be directed to better ends
  16. [00:02:30] <JamieKnight> tantek: at least they Started thinking,
  17. [00:02:37] <JamieKnight> making people think is a hard problem.
  18. [00:02:45] <tantek> getting them to ask questions is even harder
  19. [00:02:59] <JamieKnight> true,
  20. [00:03:17] <Baristo> I recommend HTML Mastery myself. A wonderous book.
  21. [00:03:36] <JamieKnight> tantek: I think i may have come across rude a few months ago, i apologise for it, was understress and autism kicked in!
  22. [00:03:41] <Baristo> Read it cover-to-cover over a weekend and gained a huge amount of knowledge.
  23. [00:04:01] <tantek> JamieKnight - no problem at all - it was already forgotten.
  24. [00:04:28] <JamieKnight> I like andy budds books, i got free copies form the man himself, they are great (and not just because o got them free)
  25. [00:05:12] <JamieKnight> thanks tantek somtime i seem rude / aragant because i am tired and my social skills mode stop working so i do Very stupid things,
  26. [00:05:23] <JamieKnight> tantek: Does the Name Alun Rowe ring a bell,
  27. [00:05:36] <tantek> no recognition
  28. [00:05:38] <JamieKnight> brit who is freind with the jons and Mr budd?
  29. [00:06:05] <JamieKnight> i am not sure where he met you, but he has done.
  30. [00:06:36] <JamieKnight> I work for him, he has you card i noticed earlier today,
  31. [00:06:55] <Baristo> tantek: Do either of the Dans stop in here on occasion?
  32. [00:07:14] <Baristo> (of Tundro)
  33. [00:07:32] <tantek> both DanC's appear time to time
  34. [00:07:46] <JamieKnight> kewl,
  35. [00:07:58] <Baristo> Great. I have some business questions for them.
  36. [00:08:05] <tantek> check /topic page for possible predictions of appearance
  37. [00:08:15] <Baristo> Great thanks tantek.
  38. [00:08:24] <mfbot> [[A proposal for amendment of the geo microformat]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=A_proposal_for_amendment_of_the_geo_microformat&diff=0&oldid=12753 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+759)
  39. [00:08:30] <factoryjoe> ok well, i'm off for now.
  40. [00:08:32] <factoryjoe> cheers
  41. [00:08:37] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-245-070.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  42. [00:08:38] <JamieKnight> have fun,
  43. [00:08:47] <JamieKnight> i should do somthing, but i am reserching phones
  44. [00:09:19] <JamieKnight> is anyone else here in the UK
  45. [00:10:04] <OpenStandards> i am
  46. [00:10:12] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-189-099.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  47. [00:10:24] <JamieKnight> kewl, do you have any experience with t-mobile as a phone operator?
  48. [00:10:26] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  49. [00:10:40] <OpenStandards> nah sorry i don´t
  50. [00:10:46] <mfbot> [[A proposal for amendment of the geo microformat]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=A_proposal_for_amendment_of_the_geo_microformat&diff=0&oldid=0 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+14964) A proposal for amendment of the geo microformat moved to Thoughts on extending the geo microformat
  51. [00:10:53] <JamieKnight> I am considering going for thier eb and walk on a sony ericson K800i for £25 a month
  52. [00:10:57] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=12754 * Tyler * (+2) Changed username to reflect newly registered IRC name.
  53. [00:11:33] <OpenStandards> how long is the contract for
  54. [00:11:40] <JamieKnight> 18 months,
  55. [00:12:01] <JamieKnight> Free phone, and 8gb data limit,
  56. [00:12:27] <OpenStandards> ouch £450
  57. [00:12:32] <JamieKnight> mostally going to e for school, school dont have wifi, and i use my laptop for comnicating when the other person dousent sign,
  58. [00:13:43] <JamieKnight> well, handset costs £279 RRP, so actully unlimied net acsess (they dont disconnect over limit only restric to 2/3rd speed over limit) and then a good deal on calls isent to bad,
  59. [00:13:57] <JamieKnight> i can seel my canon camara for £60
  60. [00:14:07] * veeliam (n=veeliam@207.111.253.74) has left #microformats
  61. [00:14:16] <JamieKnight> the camara on the phone is better, i have found a firmware hack for RAW files,
  62. [00:14:34] <JamieKnight> 3.2mp is fine for my needs,
  63. [00:15:13] <JamieKnight> brb
  64. [00:15:18] <OpenStandards> ok
  65. [00:15:33] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=12755 * Tyler * (+0) Moved name up the list to maintain alphabetical order.
  66. [00:16:39] <mfbot> [[User:Tyler Roehmholdt]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Tyler_Roehmholdt * Tyler * (+291) Created new user profile to reflect changed IRC nick.
  67. [00:17:05] <Baristo> There we go, much better.
  68. [00:17:10] * JamieKnight returns
  69. [00:17:41] * brianoberkirch (n=brianobe@adsl-065-005-209-171.sip.msy.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
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  71. [00:18:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  72. [00:19:35] <mfbot> [[icons]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=icons&diff=0&oldid=12756 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+202)
  73. [00:20:05] <OpenStandards> i wonder whats going to happen with flex i hope people don´t stand using it
  74. [00:25:46] <JamieKnight> flex?
  75. [00:28:31] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12757 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+136)
  76. [00:28:47] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  77. [00:29:25] <bewest> flex is awful
  78. [00:30:07] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12758 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+14)
  79. [00:31:38] <mfbot> [[Thoughts on extending the geo microformat]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Thoughts_on_extending_the_geo_microformat&diff=0&oldid=0 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+14964) Thoughts on extending the geo microformat moved to thoughts on extending the geo microformat
  80. [00:32:24] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12759 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+0)
  81. [00:36:15] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  82. [00:40:48] <bewest> OpenStandards: flex is so bad, it gives me pause to think about Tamarin
  83. [00:48:13] * sreynen_ (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) has joined #microformats
  84. [00:50:39] * Token (i=Token@200-158-232-1.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #microformats
  85. [00:53:27] <Token> Hi, I use a testemony system on users section of my website (local where users write about my website) approving my content ...
  86. [00:53:37] <Token> can i use hreview for testemony?
  87. [00:53:51] <JamieKnight> yes, but why
  88. [00:53:52] <tantek> precisely!
  89. [00:53:57] <bewest> is that like comments?
  90. [00:54:06] <tantek> a testimonial right?
  91. [00:54:09] <Token> yes
  92. [00:54:15] <tantek> like what many social network sites do
  93. [00:54:17] <JamieKnight> but they are never public facing
  94. [00:54:18] <tantek> it's essentially a review of a person
  95. [00:54:19] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) Quit ()
  96. [00:54:26] <tantek> they are almost always public facing
  97. [00:54:28] <Token> way to go
  98. [00:54:29] <tantek> on people's profiles etc.
  99. [00:54:33] <tantek> e.g. Flickr.com
  100. [00:54:44] <JamieKnight> no, i mean, Token are the reviews on this site public facing?
  101. [00:54:47] <Token> exctaly like orkut
  102. [00:54:47] <bewest> Token: are the testimonies about other people or about self?
  103. [00:55:02] <Token> about self site
  104. [00:55:04] <JamieKnight> sounds like prepublich rating?
  105. [00:55:21] <JamieKnight> are these rating going to be online to the general public, or just to users?
  106. [00:55:37] <JamieKnight> as, do they say yes or no to wether or not it is put online,
  107. [00:55:40] * bewest isn't sure ratings apply
  108. [00:55:56] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://gmachina.com - gaming feeds in bulk")
  109. [00:56:00] <Token> to general public
  110. [00:56:09] <JamieKnight> sounds great
  111. [00:56:12] * brianoberkirch (n=brianobe@adsl-065-005-209-171.sip.msy.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  112. [00:56:28] <JamieKnight> if it were local then there would bee less point as the data owould not ba avlible for agregation.
  113. [00:56:31] <Token> right.
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  117. [01:14:12] <mfbot> [[vote-links-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vote-links-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=12760 * ChristopheDucamp * (+118)
  118. [01:14:48] <mfbot> [[vote-links-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vote-links-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=12761 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1)
  119. [01:27:54] <mfbot> [[firefox-extensions-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions-fr&diff=0&oldid=12762 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1488) sync'd
  120. [01:33:35] <mfbot> [[rejected-formats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rejected-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=12763 * ChristopheDucamp * (+669) sync'd
  121. [01:34:26] <mfbot> [[rejected-formats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rejected-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=12764 * ChristopheDucamp * (+7)
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  123. [01:39:27] <mfbot> [[abstract-properties-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/abstract-properties-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+736)
  124. [01:42:08] <mfbot> [[icons-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=icons-fr&diff=0&oldid=12765 * ChristopheDucamp * (+243) Icônes -
  125. [01:42:59] <mfbot> [[icons-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=icons-fr&diff=0&oldid=12766 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2) Icônes -
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  130. [01:50:26] <mfbot> [[rel-examples-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1267)
  131. [01:50:31] <JamieKnight> hiya,
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  134. [02:04:19] <ajturner> 'allo
  135. [02:06:04] <JamieKnight> hiya,
  136. [02:06:16] * JamieKnight is heading to his bed soon
  137. [02:07:40] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  138. [02:08:48] <JamieKnight> i am dissipearing for a while,
  139. [02:08:54] <JamieKnight> bye folks
  140. [02:09:01] <JamieKnight> licks
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  144. [02:24:23] <mfbot> [[thoughts on extending the geo microformat]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=thoughts_on_extending_the_geo_microformat&diff=0&oldid=0 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+14964) thoughts on extending the geo microformat moved to thoughts-on-extending-the-geo-microformat
  145. [02:25:49] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12767 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+0)
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  151. [03:10:02] <mfbot> [[rel-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-examples&diff=0&oldid=12768 * Tantek * (-52) removed rel-pavatar again. it is one of several [[rejected-formats]].
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  153. [03:23:24] <mfbot> [[rel-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-examples&diff=0&oldid=12769 * Tantek * (+454) explicitly limited purpose and scope to avoid counterproductivity, add explicit reference(s) to [[rejected-formats]] to make it clear where to look for more.
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  206. [09:23:03] <mfbot> [[rel-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-examples&diff=0&oldid=12772 * AndyMabbett * (+560) Purpose and Scope -
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  230. [11:15:29] <drewinthehead> is microformats.org down?
  231. [11:19:07] <davecardwell> I can't reach it
  232. [11:19:49] <drewinthehead> darn it
  233. [11:33:30] <kapowaz> traceroute dies after a 17th hop
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  235. [11:48:44] <drewinthehead> looks like we're back
  236. [11:49:15] <kapowaz> *at that point a velociraptor snarled and leapt at Drew*
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  245. [12:38:46] <briansuda> has anyone seen this: http://microformats.org/wiki/thoughts_on_extending_the_geo_microformat it worries me slightly for several reasons
  246. [12:38:56] <briansuda> some hypothetical discussion
  247. [12:39:23] <briansuda> the real examples should be moved to -examples, or -brainstorming
  248. [12:39:42] <briansuda> i know they guy is new and his 4D was removed...
  249. [12:39:50] <briansuda> any thoughts on how to proceed?
  250. [12:40:53] <mfbot> [[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=12773 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+178)
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  277. [16:51:34] <Atamido> I'll probably be recording GPS information to a website here shortly, so it is at least interesting me.
  278. [16:56:22] <briansuda> it is of interest, but theoretical issues and "... we should ..." or "... what if ..." we are interested in ACTUAL implementations
  279. [16:56:59] <briansuda> KISS - keep it simple s* - adding 5 possible attributes is overkill when they can already be represented with other formats
  280. [16:59:16] * bear_afk is now known as bear
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  285. [17:34:03] <mfbot> [[books]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=books&diff=0&oldid=12774 * AndyMabbett * (+254) Introduction to Neogeography
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  289. [17:35:59] <JamieKnight> hiya,
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  298. [18:14:40] <Atamido> briansuda: Are the provided in-use examples not complete?
  299. [18:15:45] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
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  301. [18:15:54] <briansuda> the just should be moved to the correct sections of the wiki instead of hanging out on their own page
  302. [18:16:08] * briansuda things that is the best way to organise it
  303. [18:16:12] <mfbot> [[thoughts-on-extending-the-geo-microformat]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=thoughts-on-extending-the-geo-microformat&diff=0&oldid=12775 * RyanKing * (+2438) Reverted edit of DimitriosZachariadis, changed back to last version by Tantek
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  307. [18:28:14] <Ronnos> tantek, i have a noob question: why is the geo part of an hcard placed outside the adr part?
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  312. [18:33:45] <briansuda> Ronnos, the GEO is NOT part of ADR, but the location of the person - it is part of the original RFC
  313. [18:34:29] <Ronnos> hm, thnx briansuda... it seems a little bit weird for me, but okay
  314. [18:34:53] <Ronnos> because if it is the location of the person, it's would have to change all day long :)
  315. [18:35:33] <briansuda> yup
  316. [18:35:57] <Ronnos> well... that would be a great twitter vs. google maps mashup
  317. [18:36:00] <tantek> Ronnos - hence there are services like Dodgeball.com and Plazes.com which help with that :)
  318. [18:36:32] <Ronnos> Ronnos... is in place x, country y
  319. [18:36:51] <Ronnos> et voila, my hcard adjusts :)
  320. [18:37:11] <tantek> I believe Plazes actually does do that - they support hCard etc.
  321. [18:37:31] <Ronnos> the operator plugin -> google maps isn't supporting the geo info inside an hcard?
  322. [18:37:36] <Ronnos> only the adr info?
  323. [18:37:44] <briansuda> then there is GPS phones and location aware gadgets
  324. [18:37:59] <tantek> mkaply, does Operator support geo?
  325. [18:38:13] <mkaply> tantek: Sure.
  326. [18:38:58] <mkaply> Ronnos: you will see a google maps option for the geo and for the address
  327. [18:39:50] <mfbot> [[rel-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-examples&diff=0&oldid=12776 * Tantek * (-560) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  328. [18:40:50] <mfbot> [[rel-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-examples&diff=0&oldid=12777 * Tantek * (+29) prev revert due to no additional semantics added to purpose and scope
  329. [18:41:11] <Ronnos> mkay, i'm trying some things right now
  330. [18:43:09] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@h-68-164-89-186.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  331. [18:43:20] <mkaply> Ronnos: If something doesn't work, send it my way, I'll check
  332. [18:49:39] <Ronnos> mkay, it looks like Operator isn't using my values, but some that are "almost" nearby
  333. [18:49:57] <Ronnos> or i did something wrong :P
  334. [18:50:36] <tantek> Ronnos - could you share the URL you are trying out and maybe folks can take a look at your markup?
  335. [18:50:53] <Ronnos> sure... it's www.creative-ways.nl
  336. [18:51:06] <Ronnos> it's the big adres in the green ^^
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  339. [18:52:36] <briansuda> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http%3A//suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/geo/get-geo.php%3Ftype%3Dkml%26uri%3Dhttp%253A//www.creative-ways.nl/
  340. [18:52:41] <briansuda> is that not the right place?
  341. [18:53:33] <Ronnos> nope... or shouldn't i use the google earth coordinate information?
  342. [18:54:01] <briansuda> HOW is it wrong?
  343. [18:54:06] <Ronnos> well
  344. [18:54:11] <briansuda> wrong country? off my a kilometer?
  345. [18:54:14] <briansuda> one street?
  346. [18:54:33] <Ronnos> if i use the location function in Operator, it displays this on the google map
  347. [18:54:37] <Ronnos> 52.141776, 4.484794
  348. [18:54:39] <Ronnos> +52° 8' 30.39", +4° 29' 5.26"
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  350. [18:55:35] <briansuda> if you got those values from google maps, then there is some margin of error on their part, not Operators
  351. [18:55:47] * Phae (n=phae@80-43-92-137.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
  352. [18:55:48] <briansuda> garbage in. garbage out
  353. [18:55:50] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
  354. [18:56:11] <Phae> evening
  355. [18:56:14] <Ronnos> ah okay, the difference is 8 miles
  356. [18:56:15] <briansuda> you can use Google earth and get the lat/lon and see how close/far they are
  357. [18:56:32] <briansuda> Phae, i was going to email you RE: barcamplondon2
  358. [18:56:39] <Phae> oh cool
  359. [18:56:42] <Phae> :D
  360. [18:56:50] <briansuda> but we can chat here too
  361. [18:56:53] <Phae> go for it
  362. [18:57:05] <briansuda> as per barcamp rules, we can present each, or together
  363. [18:57:18] <Phae> correct
  364. [18:57:22] <briansuda> it might make sense to round-up several MF folks and do something bigger
  365. [18:57:33] <briansuda> adactio is attending and i'm sure others
  366. [18:57:44] <Phae> If you'd like to. Last time you may have heard - we ended up creating a mini-track with 3 back-to-back uF slots
  367. [18:57:53] <Phae> yep. he's on the list
  368. [18:58:38] <briansuda> we could so something similar to the Pub-standards gig
  369. [18:58:45] <briansuda> back-to-back, like last time
  370. [18:58:48] <briansuda> or a panel?
  371. [18:58:59] <briansuda> from design to tech to implementation?
  372. [18:59:04] * charlie_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  373. [18:59:11] <Phae> Sure, can do.
  374. [18:59:33] <briansuda> i don't know how many slots they will leave open for panels, but with 100-200 people there it will be pretty full
  375. [18:59:49] <briansuda> to have 3-4 seperate panels might be good, or maybe one big one better?
  376. [18:59:50] <Phae> I assume it'll be half hour slots again
  377. [18:59:54] <Phae> depends how many tracks
  378. [18:59:55] <nstrich> i was thinking about doing something mf related at barcamp, fyi!
  379. [18:59:57] <nstrich> (hi)
  380. [19:00:00] <Phae> hi richard
  381. [19:00:09] <nstrich> evening
  382. [19:00:15] <briansuda> so that opens the door for lost of stuff
  383. [19:00:31] <Phae> If we're going to do something joint, it'd have to be a big slot. The only problem with doing that is some people would want to be able to come and go during the half hour time swaps
  384. [19:00:43] <Phae> So doing lots of back-to-backs allows people to pick and choose areas of uFs that interest them
  385. [19:00:43] <briansuda> i'm happy to talk about GRDDL as well, or another random topic, but i figured i'd offer to help do an MF panel
  386. [19:01:02] <mfbot> [[payment]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/payment * Tantek * (+718) created top level page for "payment" microformat to componentize and outline efforts that went into [[rel-payment]]
  387. [19:01:08] <Phae> Yeah, I was writing today about thinking of doing something non-mf, but I'd happily do a mF too.
  388. [19:01:12] <briansuda> we still have a few weeks, so you can think about it
  389. [19:01:17] <Phae> I will.
  390. [19:01:28] <briansuda> i figured i'd give other folks a chance to talk about MFs
  391. [19:01:33] <Phae> Yeah
  392. [19:01:36] <Phae> I did mFs last time
  393. [19:01:41] <Phae> With Glenn and Drew
  394. [19:01:41] <briansuda> if that is what they have to offer i'm not going to steal their thunder
  395. [19:01:43] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "rel-payment": content was: 'See [[relpayment-research|rel-payment research]].'
  396. [19:01:48] <Phae> Yeah, exactly.
  397. [19:02:04] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=relpayment-research&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+15402) relpayment-research moved to rel-payment
  398. [19:02:38] <Phae> GRDDL would be interesting, btw.
  399. [19:02:43] <Phae> I'd see that.
  400. [19:02:44] <Ronnos> what's the best way to retreive lat/long information for a location, briansuda?
  401. [19:02:56] <briansuda> google earth
  402. [19:03:10] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12778 * Tantek * (-22) moved [[relpayment-research]] to [[rel-payment]] in preparation for modularization of research etc. into pages outlined on [[payment]] page
  403. [19:03:35] <nstrich> you can get it from a google maps url quite easily, too
  404. [19:03:52] <Ronnos> hm, the coordinates they use in earth are not the same as in maps :S
  405. [19:06:16] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12779 * Tantek * (+14) added [[payment]] to exploratory discussions
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  407. [19:08:30] <Baristo> Hi everyone.
  408. [19:09:01] <Phae> Hi Baristo
  409. [19:09:23] <Baristo> Hey there Phae, how's the day panning out for you?
  410. [19:09:39] * sreynen_ (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  411. [19:09:44] <Phae> Not so terrible, thank you. Better now I'm home from work.
  412. [19:10:02] <Baristo> Lovely! Any exciting evening plans?
  413. [19:10:18] <Phae> Not yet.
  414. [19:11:26] <Baristo> Same here I suppose. Much of the same. Get home from work and wonder what I'm going to do till I go to bed. :)
  415. [19:13:08] <Baristo> briansuda will be happy to know I printed out r11 of his microformats cheat-sheet. :)
  416. [19:13:32] * briansuda is very happy and hopes you find it useful
  417. [19:14:10] <Baristo> It's up on my cubicle wall in huge 11x17 format ready for people to come by and ask what it is. :)
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  419. [19:14:32] * briansuda hopes to start an RSS feed so folks can keep track of updates
  420. [19:14:40] <Phae> That's a good idea.
  421. [19:14:53] <Baristo> I'm *slowly* working to bring microformats into my team's development practices.
  422. [19:15:03] <Baristo> Oh that'd be a great idea briansuda.
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  426. [19:21:05] <Ronnos> ahh, now i see! Google is supplying me with 2 different coordinate combinations: one for their maps, and one for the Google Earth application
  427. [19:21:13] * iand (n=iand@cpc2-nthc3-0-0-cust770.nrth.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
  428. [19:22:45] <Ronnos> tantek, i solved "the problem"
  429. [19:26:18] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) has joined #microformats
  430. [19:26:38] <mfbot> [[rel-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-examples&diff=0&oldid=12780 * Tantek * (+1690) added rel examples from HTML4, established microformats, drafts, and exploratory discussions. related pages rel-faq
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  433. [19:28:20] <tantek> greetings microformatters - i've just greatly expanded the rel-examples page to include the context of established rel values (from HTML4 and microformats), draft rel values, and exploratory discussions, all linking to (sometimes new/yet to be created) pages for each specific rel-value. I could use your help in creating those pages with a bit of stub content that briefly described the respective rel value and linked back to the
  434. [19:28:27] <tantek> have at it!
  435. [19:29:02] <Baristo> Oh cool tantek. If stuff remains this evening I'll take a stab at it. :)
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  439. [19:31:40] <Phae> swish
  440. [19:38:44] <mfbot> [[User:Baristo]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Baristo * Baristo * (+301) Page creation.
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  443. [19:41:20] <Baristo> briansuda: Is there a way to delete a Wiki user account? I have my old one that I'd like to remove.
  444. [19:41:34] <briansuda> not sure?
  445. [19:42:00] <Baristo> Okay, I'm exploring the Wiki as we speak. :)
  446. [19:42:32] <Phae> Just put a note on your old nickname to your new one.
  447. [19:43:29] <Baristo> Sounds good.
  448. [19:43:40] <Baristo> Haven't thought of that, thanks Phae. :)
  449. [19:43:55] <Phae> :)
  450. [19:50:42] <Baristo> Anyone have any success bringing microformats into a larger business practice?
  451. [19:52:15] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit ("goodbye, farewell, auf Wiedersehen")
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  453. [20:07:34] <Atamido> So, is there a general desire to add altitude and time to the GEO format?
  454. [20:08:29] <briansuda> no desire
  455. [20:08:49] <briansuda> it isn't a matter of WANTING, but of established practices in current publishing
  456. [20:09:41] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit ("goodbye, farewell, auf Wiedersehen")
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  463. [20:27:56] <bewest> Baristo: what do youmean by business practice?
  464. [20:28:10] <bewest> Baristo: Alexa, a search engine, has an hcard search
  465. [20:28:25] <bewest> technorati, another search engine, also has a microformat search
  466. [20:28:40] <bewest> yahoo, yet another search engine, publishes many microformats
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  473. [20:36:32] <tantek> Atamido, re: adding altitude/time to GEO, the right place for GEO brainstorming/input is here currently: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#geo_improvements
  474. [20:37:37] <JamieKnight_> tantek: surely, if they plot the geo tag they will get that data,
  475. [20:37:45] <JamieKnight_> it implicict data.
  476. [20:38:02] <JamieKnight_> thus wouldent "need" to be markup up?
  477. [20:38:15] <tantek> JamieKnight_ , there is no "surely" without URLs to real world examples. :)
  478. [20:38:36] <JamieKnight_> tantek: ok, i see what you means,
  479. [20:39:32] <mfbot> [[examples-in-wild]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/examples-in-wild * Tantek * (+218) created
  480. [20:39:43] <mfbot> [[examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+218) examples-in-wild moved to examples-in-the-wild
  481. [20:40:11] <JamieKnight_> tantek: what host would you reccomend for a hCard to Gmail CSV service which uses a bookmarklet?
  482. [20:40:31] <JamieKnight_> or a lik of course,
  483. [20:40:54] <mfbot> [[examples-in-the-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=examples-in-the-wild&diff=0&oldid=12781 * Tantek * (+177) added hCalendar, hCard, hReview examples in the wild page links
  484. [20:41:28] <tantek> Baristo - see http://microformats.org/wiki/implementations for more implementations, and the many "examples-in-wild" pages linked from http://microformats.org/wiki/examples-in-the-wild for lots of examples of "business practice" :)
  485. [20:44:10] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12782 * Tantek * (+26) added link to top level [[examples-in-the-wild]] page
  486. [20:44:34] * iand (n=iand@cpc2-nthc3-0-0-cust770.nrth.cable.ntl.com) Quit (Connection timed out)
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  488. [20:48:22] <mfbot> [[examples-in-the-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=examples-in-the-wild&diff=0&oldid=12783 * AndyMabbett * (+39) include-pattern-examples-in-wild
  489. [20:50:58] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12784 * AndyMabbett * (+49) Examples
  490. [20:52:19] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12785 * AndyMabbett * (-15) Examples - rm misleading link (to example of wiki page, not examples of microformats)
  491. [21:01:26] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-83d858200fd0fec9) has joined #microformats
  492. [21:01:35] * mkaply finds a w3 page with geos that use commas
  493. [21:02:08] <mkaply> should I support commas as a lat/long separator or just semicolon?
  494. [21:02:19] * dzach (n=dzach@ppp042-169.dsl.hol.gr) has joined #microformats
  495. [21:03:14] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) Quit ("Leaving")
  496. [21:03:51] <JamieKnight_> not sure,
  497. [21:03:57] <tantek> mkaply - URL?
  498. [21:03:58] <JamieKnight_> doing both would not be hrd
  499. [21:04:04] <JamieKnight_> hard rather
  500. [21:04:14] <JamieKnight_> i assume you mean phaseing?
  501. [21:04:34] <dzach> Tantek?
  502. [21:04:52] <mkaply> it's actually hosted by w3 - Dan Connoly's event page
  503. [21:04:54] <mkaply> http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/events/
  504. [21:05:08] <dzach> Hi
  505. [21:05:09] <tantek> mkaply, I wrote some thinking on "," vs. ";" here: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#geo_improvements
  506. [21:07:04] <JamieKnight_> tantek: which host would you recommend that support XSLT
  507. [21:07:45] <tantek> good q Jamie - I am not an XSLT expert
  508. [21:08:28] <tantek> mkaply, note that the first geo on that w3.org page uses ";" properly AFAICT
  509. [21:08:38] <tantek> my guess is that Dan simply forgot to update the other two geo abbrs
  510. [21:08:59] <JamieKnight_> thanks tantek
  511. [21:09:24] <JamieKnight_> i will do some reserchl, do you think it might be a good idea to do somthing on thw wiki about pharsing hosts and support ect?
  512. [21:10:01] <tantek> do you mean parsing? i don't know what pharsing is.
  513. [21:10:06] <JamieKnight_> sorry,
  514. [21:10:12] <JamieKnight_> parsing
  515. [21:10:23] <JamieKnight_> i need to remeber the word, not the sign for it,
  516. [21:10:37] * JamieKnight_ signs as his main internal coms.
  517. [21:10:48] <tantek> mkaply, could you add any Examples in the Wild that you find of "geo" (like the w3 page) to http://microformats.org/wiki/geo#Examples_in_the_wild ? (and then indicate with a nested list item any problems you found, like use of "," instead of ";")
  518. [21:11:04] <mkaply> tantek: sure
  519. [21:11:53] <tantek> thanks!
  520. [21:11:55] <mfbot> [[examples-in-the-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=examples-in-the-wild&diff=0&oldid=12786 * Tantek * (+56) added geo to list
  521. [21:13:01] <mfbot> [[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=12787 * MikeKaply * (+190) Examples in the wild -
  522. [21:15:58] <dzach> tantek: can I ask you a wiki related question?
  523. [21:16:26] <tantek> no, but you can ask the channel ;)
  524. [21:16:53] <dzach> Oh, channel, channel! I got the page I created "thoughts on extending the geo format" everted to the initial text created on Jan 17. The page was changed significantly but it's possible that I'm still not doing it properly. Should I delete that page all ltogether, or I can keep it with your non conformance note on it?
  525. [21:18:41] <dzach> reverted, I ment :-(
  526. [21:18:47] <tantek> consider instead creating a page perhaps "space-time" per the process, describe the problem being solved, then create "space-time-examples" per the process, an document URLs to real world examples etc. an amorphous collection of thoughts does not really help you follow the process.
  527. [21:19:14] <tantek> then when you've created those pages, move content to them accordingly, and edit down the "thoughts-on-..." page accordingly which should eventually disappear.
  528. [21:21:34] <dzach> I wonder why I didn't ask earlier. In the mean while, what do you suggest I do with the "thoughts about" page? revert it back to the new content but with the non conformance not on it or delete it?
  529. [21:24:22] <dzach> note on it
  530. [21:29:10] * Phae (n=phae@80-43-92-137.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  532. [21:32:56] <Baristo> Great, thanks for the link tantek. I was out to lunch with some new co-workers.
  533. [21:34:15] <tantek> dzach - I would recommend leaving the "thoughts on..." page as is and as you create the pages per the process, just move content out of it appropriately, and eventually it will just be a shell that can be deleted.
  534. [21:36:33] <mfbot> [[rest/opacity]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/opacity&diff=0&oldid=12788 * DrErnie * (+102) See Also - added link
  535. [21:37:56] <dzach> tantek: Ok, thanks a lot.
  536. [21:42:47] <tantek> dzach, this channel is a good place to get help with walking things thru the process
  537. [21:43:10] <Baristo> tantek: You can bet your bottom I'll be posing a question or five soon here. :)
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  540. [21:45:10] <mfbot> [[rest/opacity]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/opacity&diff=0&oldid=12789 * DrErnie * (+442) Questions by Mike Schinkel -
  541. [21:45:22] <dzach> I just realized that. Better late than sorry. I had to get the IRC client running on this machine, and I admit I was lazy :-$
  542. [21:45:25] * danbri (n=chatzill@82-32-5-17.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  545. [21:48:56] <mfbot> [[rest/opacity]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/opacity&diff=0&oldid=12790 * DrErnie * (+505) Questions by Mike Schinkel -
  546. [21:52:17] <mfbot> [[thoughts-on-extending-the-geo-microformat]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=thoughts-on-extending-the-geo-microformat&diff=0&oldid=12791 * DimitriosZachariadis * (+226)
  547. [21:54:58] <mfbot> [[thoughts-on-extending-the-geo-microformat]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=thoughts-on-extending-the-geo-microformat&diff=0&oldid=12792 * DimitriosZachariadis * (-43)
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  551. [22:02:15] * danja (n=danja@host151-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
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  553. [22:05:16] <mkaply> Is it valid to use the abbr format in the text of a geo?
  554. [22:05:21] <mkaply> http://rasterweb.net/raster/contact.html
  555. [22:05:44] <mkaply> <A style="text-decoration: none;" class="geo" href="http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.112%2C-88.492&amp;spn=0.04%2C0.04">43.112;-88.492</A>
  556. [22:06:55] * danja (n=danja@host151-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Client Quit)
  557. [22:09:50] * charlie_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  558. [22:11:18] * JamieKnight_ is now known as JamieKnight
  559. [22:13:54] <Baristo> Hey there JamieKnight.
  560. [22:14:49] <JamieKnight> hiya Baristo
  561. [22:14:56] <JamieKnight> hows be you
  562. [22:15:12] <Baristo> How's your evening going? Must be what, 10 o'clock over there?
  563. [22:16:35] <mfbot> [[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=12793 * AndyMabbett * (+2544) Comments - Brent A. Archinal, U.S. Geological Survey
  564. [22:17:37] * sreynen (n=sreynen@12-217-44-131.client.mchsi.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  565. [22:17:41] <JamieKnight> yeah, nearly that
  566. [22:17:51] <JamieKnight> well, closetr to 10:30 infact
  567. [22:17:53] <Baristo> Oh you know, I'm doing alright today. :)
  568. [22:18:00] <Baristo> Busy busy at work.
  569. [22:18:03] <JamieKnight> I have been moving my site today, ready for phase 2
  570. [22:18:11] <Baristo> Plotting plotting at home with my cafe site. ;)
  571. [22:18:14] <Baristo> Ah nice!
  572. [22:18:55] <JamieKnight> i am a bit stuck though, i have been given hosting at work, but i cannot install XLST
  573. [22:18:56] <mfbot> [[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=12794 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Brent A. Archinal - bulletise and embed link
  574. [22:19:57] <mfbot> [[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=12795 * AndyMabbett * (+4) Brent A. Archinal -
  575. [22:20:07] <Baristo> Oh yeah? Have you tried the #xml channel? It's sometimes quiet but good people in there.
  576. [22:20:15] <JamieKnight> I will do,
  577. [22:20:22] <JamieKnight> i need to be carefull how much i do,
  578. [22:20:39] <JamieKnight> or i will get an overload, i need to get to nwo the main people in here before another channel.
  579. [22:21:44] <Baristo> Ah true true. :)
  580. [22:21:48] <mfbot> [[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=12796 * AndyMabbett * (+18) Straw-Man - change to "reference frame" & "Moon" per Brent Archinal's comments
  581. [22:21:51] <JamieKnight> this is the first channel i have been in which is not an autism channel.
  582. [22:22:01] <Baristo> Ah nice. :) Welcome!
  583. [22:22:04] <Baristo> (again, hehe)
  584. [22:22:05] <JamieKnight> thanks,
  585. [22:22:10] <JamieKnight> (again)
  586. [22:22:24] * charles_r (n=Miranda@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  587. [22:22:32] <JamieKnight> i saw a good article today, very good for people who are new to the standards "phylosofy"
  588. [22:22:38] <JamieKnight> http://www.digital-web.com/articles/markup_as_craft/
  589. [22:23:12] <JamieKnight> it explain about how to use the proper methods.
  590. [22:23:21] <JamieKnight> Infact, i need to do this myself on my own site.
  591. [22:23:36] <JamieKnight> i have advocated thier use, but am still using some redundent code on my site,
  592. [22:23:59] <JamieKnight> I am working to fix that before releasing the final "version" of my site
  593. [22:24:19] <JamieKnight> Baristo: may i ask why you are developing the sit you are developing in ROR
  594. [22:24:29] <mfbot> [[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=12797 * AndyMabbett * (+32) Issues - per Brent Archinal
  595. [22:25:03] <Baristo> Oh well, hmm... good question! Availability of good resources, a strong community, excellent plug-in support, etc.
  596. [22:25:04] <Baristo> :)
  597. [22:25:24] <JamieKnight> why not PHP / MySQL?
  598. [22:25:31] <tantek> mkaply, the content is valid in any element normally, unless otherwise indicated
  599. [22:25:42] <JamieKnight> hiya tantek
  600. [22:25:47] <JamieKnight> how are you today
  601. [22:27:25] <mfbot> [[geo-extension-strawman]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=12798 * AndyMabbett * (-102) Brent A. Archinal - copy edit
  602. [22:28:16] * danbri (n=chatzill@82-32-5-17.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Connection timed out)
  603. [22:28:25] <Baristo> JamieKnight: I'm not a programmer myself. I did some research and found lots of success stories with Rails, and I find them Rails community a bit more friendly than PHP. :)
  604. [22:28:39] <Baristo> s/them/the
  605. [22:28:53] <JamieKnight> there are more resorce for PHP though,
  606. [22:29:05] <JamieKnight> i think RoR is good, but it is still way to hyped.
  607. [22:29:17] <JamieKnight> althugh, my experience with it was quite trumatic.
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  609. [22:29:32] * danbri_ is now known as danbri
  610. [22:30:05] <Baristo> I'm also looking at Django though. We haven't started development yet so language is still up in the air.
  611. [22:30:24] <JamieKnight> Baristo: although PHP has its faults, i am still a fan,
  612. [22:30:49] <Baristo> Glad to see you sticking to it. We should stick to microformats in here though. :)
  613. [22:30:50] <JamieKnight> the main problem with RoR is i think it sacrafices some simplification.
  614. [22:30:56] <JamieKnight> true,
  615. [22:31:05] <JamieKnight> on the note of microformats,
  616. [22:31:15] <JamieKnight> do you know any XLST capable hosting companies?
  617. [22:31:26] <JamieKnight> the hosting we have in work is ot compatible,
  618. [22:31:26] <Baristo> Any VPS. :)
  619. [22:31:32] <JamieKnight> VPS?
  620. [22:31:46] <Baristo> http://slicehost.com
  621. [22:32:08] <JamieKnight> hmmm,
  622. [22:32:16] <Baristo> My host. Love them.
  623. [22:32:21] <JamieKnight> i need to keep the costs low,
  624. [22:32:27] <Baristo> $20/mo
  625. [22:32:32] <JamieKnight> yeah,
  626. [22:32:44] <JamieKnight> although 256 RAM machine will not be very quick,
  627. [22:32:46] <Promethues^^> slicehost seems like nice
  628. [22:32:52] <Baristo> You'd be surprised JamieKnight. :)
  629. [22:32:58] <JamieKnight> true,
  630. [22:33:09] <JamieKnight> i was suprised what knoppix could do with a 32mb laptopm
  631. [22:33:11] <Baristo> Promethues^^: I've been with them a month and have found a great community Promethues^^. Jason and Matt run a great company.
  632. [22:33:49] <Promethues^^> Baristo: is it based in the US?
  633. [22:33:57] <Baristo> Yeah, St. Louis.
  634. [22:33:58] <JamieKnight> looks like it,
  635. [22:34:02] * JamieKnight is in the UK
  636. [22:34:21] <JamieKnight> we are seeing about installing XSLT on our server in work,
  637. [22:34:31] <JamieKnight> trouble is we dont completely own them.
  638. [22:34:41] <Promethues^^> mm
  639. [22:34:47] <Promethues^^> well I'm based in Finland )
  640. [22:34:53] <JamieKnight> hmm,
  641. [22:34:54] <Promethues^^> so that's a bit far from STL
  642. [22:35:14] <JamieKnight> we have our own servers, but, for thing like myself, we go with an external company,
  643. [22:35:37] <mfbot> [[luna]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=luna&diff=0&oldid=12799 * AndyMabbett * (+60) clarify move to straw man
  644. [22:35:38] <JamieKnight> so, for example, if a site warrents going onto one of the "big" servers it can,
  645. [22:35:38] <Promethues^^> if I were based in the US though, I would be tempted to go with MT
  646. [22:35:46] <JamieKnight> but if it doesent, we dont,
  647. [22:35:53] <JamieKnight> yeah, media temple seem good,
  648. [22:36:03] <JamieKnight> I have spoken to UKWSD a few times,
  649. [22:36:06] <JamieKnight> they are good,
  650. [22:36:15] <JamieKnight> although i dont think they have XSLt support,
  651. [22:36:35] <JamieKnight> brb
  652. [22:37:33] <mfbot> [[luna]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=luna&diff=0&oldid=12800 * AndyMabbett * (+3) Updated
  653. [22:38:04] <mfbot> [[mars]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mars&diff=0&oldid=12801 * AndyMabbett * (+67) clarify merger
  654. [22:39:49] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  655. [22:39:55] <mfbot> [[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=12802 * AndyMabbett * (+6) Examples in the wild - move new examples to top
  656. [22:40:02] <JamieKnight> HIYA
  657. [22:40:21] <Baristo> I'd only go with Media Temple if I did their VPS.
  658. [22:40:31] <JamieKnight> vIRTUALpRIVITE sERVER
  659. [22:40:35] <Baristo> I've left the realm of shared hosting for good. :)
  660. [22:40:40] <JamieKnight> wow, that went bad
  661. [22:40:46] <JamieKnight> sorry, yeah,
  662. [22:40:52] <JamieKnight> i think we have VPS,
  663. [22:40:59] <JamieKnight> its company VPs though,
  664. [22:41:13] <JamieKnight> A single VPS acting a a shared host,
  665. [22:41:14] <JamieKnight> i think,
  666. [22:41:53] <Baristo> Huh.
  667. [22:43:00] <JamieKnight> sorry,
  668. [22:43:02] <JamieKnight> one sec,
  669. [22:44:51] <mfbot> [[examples-in-the-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=examples-in-the-wild&diff=0&oldid=12803 * AndyMabbett * (+184) plain language link text
  670. [22:45:49] <mkaply> tantek: So latitude and longitude are not required for a geo if the geo content is of the form lat;long
  671. [22:46:13] <tantek> in fact that was the original format in hCard and geo
  672. [22:46:26] <tantek> before it was extracted
  673. [22:46:26] * mkaply goes to fix operator
  674. [22:46:28] <tantek> and made explicit with the subproperties
  675. [22:46:37] <tantek> mkaply does that make sense to you?
  676. [22:46:57] <mkaply> tantek: perfect sense.
  677. [22:47:17] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  678. [22:47:24] <mkaply> I hope when people use operator and they see these kind of mistakes in the parsing, they let me know :)
  679. [22:47:57] <bewest> mkaply: do you have a bug tracker?
  680. [22:48:07] <mfbot> [[examples-in-the-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=examples-in-the-wild&diff=0&oldid=12804 * AndyMabbett * (+0) decap
  681. [22:48:15] <mkaply> bewest: right now just a bug page http://www.kaply.com/weblog/operator-bugs/
  682. [22:48:17] * danja (n=danja@host151-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  683. [22:48:28] <mfbot> [[examples-in-the-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=examples-in-the-wild&diff=0&oldid=12805 * AndyMabbett * (+2) )
  684. [22:50:01] <JamieKnight> mkaply: are you responsible for operator~?
  685. [22:50:25] <mkaply> JamieKnight: yep
  686. [22:50:30] <JamieKnight> sorry, i a back now, the person who i am satying with this weeek cam eback
  687. [22:50:35] <JamieKnight> I have somthing for you,
  688. [22:51:00] <JamieKnight> I have the php code / service to convert hCard to Gmail,
  689. [22:51:16] <JamieKnight> but, i am looking for a host with XSLT
  690. [22:51:29] <mkaply> JamieKnight: Could it be done via Javascript easily?
  691. [22:51:44] <JamieKnight> i have a bookmarklet which does it.
  692. [22:51:48] <csarven> mkaply you probably heard this before but is there a solution to speeding up Operator?
  693. [22:52:04] <mkaply> csarven: what version are you using?
  694. [22:52:07] <JamieKnight> bookmarklet take the current page and then send it away like x2v
  695. [22:52:19] <JamieKnight> i have it working on localhost,
  696. [22:52:35] <mkaply> with 0.6.2 I switched to using XPath which made things a lot faster.
  697. [22:52:40] <JamieKnight> i just need an xlst server and some time to sort evrything out,
  698. [22:52:41] <csarven> mkaply 0.6.2
  699. [22:52:49] <csarven> let me check again
  700. [22:52:54] <mfbot> [[geo-extension-strawman]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=12806 * AndyMabbett * (+316) Issues - reference frame examples
  701. [22:52:59] <mkaply> csarven: I'm considering switching back to creating the popup menus on the fly which would help.
  702. [22:53:07] <JamieKnight> hmmmm,
  703. [22:53:24] <mkaply> I'm thinking that's my biggest performance issue - the XUL creation - at this point.
  704. [22:53:26] <JamieKnight> know the Tags menu, i am assuming that the "lic
  705. [22:53:29] * mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@bas10-toronto12-1096625312.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #microformats
  706. [22:53:49] <csarven> mkaply i see there is improvement from the last time i checked
  707. [22:53:57] <JamieKnight> know the Tags menu, i am assuming that the "list" is made once as a var the looped back though for the other changing URL, or it passers though and external system?
  708. [22:54:17] <mkaply> csarven: Yeah. I made significant improvements - before I was going through the entire page DOM in a loop. XPath improved that immensely
  709. [22:54:33] * Baristo (n=baristo@68.178.101.38) has left #microformats
  710. [22:54:45] <mkaply> JamieKnight: everytime the page changes or you change tabs, I so an XPath to get all rel=tag, sort, remove duplicates, then create the menu
  711. [22:54:53] <mkaply> It's all done locally
  712. [22:54:57] <mkaply> In the extension
  713. [22:54:58] <JamieKnight> how do you creat the menu?
  714. [22:55:15] <mkaply> JamieKnight: It's a Firefox extension, so it's just a XUL menu
  715. [22:55:25] <JamieKnight> sorry i am being unclear,
  716. [22:55:35] * JamieKnight is very bad at describing things
  717. [22:55:36] <csarven> mkaply any ideas why Operator picks up two hCard's on this page: http://www.csarven.ca/cv
  718. [22:56:08] <mkaply> csarven: as opposed to 19?
  719. [22:56:38] <csarven> mkaply yes
  720. [22:56:49] <JamieKnight> basically, when it anylyses the page for tags, does it place them into an array, then when you click on the link the link has two pameter, link type and tag value. then generate the url to load form there.
  721. [22:56:51] <mkaply> csarven: go to options - check the Debug mode checkbox
  722. [22:57:00] <mfbot> [[Template:geo-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:geo-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12807 * Tantek * (+190) added hCard FAQ, geo improvements
  723. [22:57:05] <JamieKnight> then it is only generating links for tag which are being used?
  724. [22:57:06] <mfbot> [[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=12808 * Tantek * (-156) more specific geo brainstorming link and minor reorg
  725. [22:57:10] <csarven> mkaply aha. interesting
  726. [22:57:21] <csarven> why is that necessary?
  727. [22:57:33] * JamieKnight knows nothing about firefox extensions and how they work
  728. [22:57:41] <mkaply> csarven: just the rules - easy on your page - everywhere you have class=org just do class="fn org"
  729. [22:57:48] <tantek> mkaply - what has been your experience with http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#latitude_longitude_shorthand ?
  730. [22:58:27] <csarven> mkaply i see fn is required
  731. [22:58:38] <mkaply> JamieKnight: I store a command handler in each menu that has the command to execute when it is clicked. So I don't actually need to store the array. I go through all the tags, create a menu that has the appropriate command and then when it is clicked, it gets executed
  732. [22:58:41] <tantek> if it is working for publishers and consumers now, we should add it to the geo spec, since it is only a syntactical change (no semantics were harmed or created in the process)
  733. [22:58:52] <JamieKnight> okay,
  734. [22:58:59] <tantek> if the "latitude longitude shorthand" is working that is.
  735. [22:59:05] <JamieKnight> I am not entirely sure i understand that
  736. [22:59:14] * JamieKnight is tierd and should log off soon.
  737. [22:59:31] <mkaply> tantek: yes, I think it is. I've only run across one page with a , instead of a ;
  738. [22:59:33] * danbri (n=chatzill@82-32-5-17.cable.ubr01.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  739. [22:59:36] <mkaply> I see very few invalid geos
  740. [22:59:52] <JamieKnight> so the command would be somtlike do(tag,service)
  741. [22:59:54] <mkaply> That's why the one with a geo in the content surprised me. I never see my Location button light up with an error
  742. [23:00:02] <tantek> and when you do, certainly add them to the examples in the wild with comments so their authors know to fix them
  743. [23:00:14] <mkaply> JamieKnight: yep.
  744. [23:00:20] <JamieKnight> ah, okay
  745. [23:00:24] <mkaply> tantek: wil do
  746. [23:00:35] <JamieKnight> i was going to suggest somthing like that, incase the links were being made before hand.
  747. [23:00:40] <tantek> any other comments on this syntactically update to geo? it's been in brainstorming for a while, and several publishers have successfully experimented with it.
  748. [23:00:47] <mfbot> [[geo-extension-strawman]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-extension-strawman&diff=0&oldid=12809 * AndyMabbett * (+77) Issues - link
  749. [23:01:00] <JamieKnight> mkaply: would you be able to recommend any firefox extension tutorials?
  750. [23:01:06] <mkaply> JamieKnight: definitely
  751. [23:01:22] <JamieKnight> thanks,
  752. [23:01:24] <tantek> now that we have both real world publishers and consumers (implementations) that seem to work well together, I think it is worth moving "latitude longitude shorthand" from brainstorming to the geo spec itself.
  753. [23:01:29] <tantek> thoughts?
  754. [23:01:38] <mkaply> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Building_an_Extension
  755. [23:01:38] <JamieKnight> i think it makes some sense,
  756. [23:01:49] <JamieKnight> allows for the use of it easier in the content
  757. [23:02:00] <mkaply> tantek: Yeah, I agree.
  758. [23:02:03] * JamieKnight thinks unless he has misunderstood
  759. [23:02:19] <mkaply> tantek: what I like best about it is that it gives the geo one bit of textContent that represents the geo.
  760. [23:02:23] * JamieKnight thank mkaply for the link, and congrat on oprator
  761. [23:02:28] * danja (n=danja@host151-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
  762. [23:02:38] <tantek> mkaply, yes I think it certainly helps some publishers, and that's one of the reasons why we are here
  763. [23:02:46] * mkaply has to run.
  764. [23:02:50] <mkaply> Talk more tomorrow
  765. [23:02:51] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-83d858200fd0fec9) Quit ("Leaving")
  766. [23:07:18] <JamieKnight> i need to go, it is getting late, and myself tired, will be online tommorow, byee!
  767. [23:07:29] * JamieKnight (n=chatzill@80-42-212-214.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has left #microformats
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