IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-02-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  14. [01:31:02] <vbgunz> I don't mean to be a fool but I just finished reading up on rel="tag" and thought the word after the last slash was the tag AND no ?query=parameters were allowed nor linking to direct documents e.g. tech.php, fish.pl, etc?
  15. [01:31:57] <vbgunz> is this correct? I thought I read this in the FAQs but maybe I misinterpreted it and I don't mean to highlight any faughts except my own *but* this page: http://jyte.com/cl/jyte-should-integrate-microformats-votelinks sort of confused me in it's use of tags...
  16. [01:32:55] <JamieKnight> hmmm, not really sure,
  17. [01:32:59] <JamieKnight> i will go have a look,
  18. [01:33:11] <JamieKnight> i think thebtagspace is meant to be http://www.domain/tag/
  19. [01:33:17] <JamieKnight> tha tagspace rather
  20. [01:33:26] * daggi (n=chrisada@82-45-160-216.cable.ubr05.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ()
  21. [01:35:28] <vbgunz> well, I found that page from reading up on the votelinks emf... really, I am sure I am just making a small deal out of nothing. a curious question
  22. [01:35:54] <JamieKnight> i am not really sure, TBH
  23. [01:35:57] <JamieKnight> reading it now,
  24. [01:36:13] <JamieKnight> I supose, mod rewrite is almost universal so.....
  25. [01:36:38] <JamieKnight> i saupose, the problem with that, is that if somone wished to link to your tagspace it would make it more difficult.
  26. [01:38:01] <vbgunz> I agree. I like the idea of getting the tag after the last slash and keeping it simple
  27. [01:38:32] <JamieKnight> hmmm,
  28. [01:38:43] <JamieKnight> seem more simple, make things easier for operator,
  29. [01:38:54] <JamieKnight> also, i supose, you could also check a domain for tag like that
  30. [01:39:15] <JamieKnight> if you geta 404 wheen going to domain.tld/tag/
  31. [01:39:19] <JamieKnight> then they dont have a tagspace
  32. [01:39:22] <JamieKnight> maybe.....
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  36. [02:54:26] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13437 * SteveL * (+160) Suggested fields for inclusion -
  37. [02:54:57] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13438 * SteveL * (-1) Suggested fields for inclusion -
  38. [02:56:47] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13439 * SteveL * (-28) Suggested fields for inclusion -
  39. [02:57:30] <KevinMarks> vbgunz: that id correct
  40. [02:57:47] <vbgunz> ?
  41. [02:58:03] <vbgunz> do you mean the tags are incorrect?
  42. [02:58:14] <KevinMarks> he word after the last slash was the tag AND no ?query=parameters were allowed nor linking to direct documents e.g. tech.php, fish.pl, etc?
  43. [02:58:30] <KevinMarks> checking jyte
  44. [02:58:57] <vbgunz> oh
  45. [02:59:00] <KevinMarks> those tags aren't rel-tag
  46. [02:59:07] <KevinMarks> and don't have rel="tag" on them
  47. [02:59:26] <KevinMarks> Bloggers are right -someoen said they weren't
  48. [03:03:01] <vbgunz> yeah, I checked them too, sorry. I think I got nazi on it without really seeing if they were microformats to begin with. silly me :(
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  50. [03:09:58] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13440 * SteveL * (+284) Additional Suggestions -
  51. [03:23:00] <vbgunz> what is the difference between a sub contact and a meta contact?
  52. [03:23:52] <vbgunz> sorry, wrong channel
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  63. [05:22:18] <mfbot> [[greasemonkey]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=greasemonkey&diff=0&oldid=13441 * ChristopheDucamp * (+16) Prebuilt hCard - ndunn -> dead link
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  65. [05:59:35] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  69. [06:51:46] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=13442 * HenrichPoehls * (+0) sorted my name in
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  71. [07:36:44] <mfbot> [[greasemonkey]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=greasemonkey&diff=0&oldid=13443 * ChristopheDucamp * (+28) Dynamic hCard - dead link
  72. [07:38:50] <mfbot> [[greasemonkey-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=greasemonkey-fr&diff=0&oldid=13444 * ChristopheDucamp * (+636) [fr : lien mort + proposition de lien alternatif sur ma hcard à vérifier]
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  74. [07:39:01] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
  75. [07:39:21] <mfbot> [[greasemonkey-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=greasemonkey-fr&diff=0&oldid=13445 * ChristopheDucamp * (-24) hCard Préconstruite -
  76. [07:39:57] <mfbot> [[greasemonkey-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=greasemonkey-fr&diff=0&oldid=13446 * ChristopheDucamp * (-3) hCard Préconstruite -
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  78. [08:00:43] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  92. [08:40:46] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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  96. [08:49:22] <jibot> TylerR is Tyler Roehmholdt and is brewing up something social.
  97. [08:49:34] <TylerR> ?forgetme
  98. [08:49:35] <jibot> I have expunged TylerR from my mind
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  102. [09:01:46] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  115. [10:19:23] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
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  117. [10:32:42] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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  123. [11:06:43] * Whiskey_M (n=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) has joined #microformats
  124. [11:06:46] <Whiskey_M> 'lo
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  127. [11:11:27] <drewinthehead> 'lo Whiskey_M
  128. [11:11:31] <Whiskey_M> before I start going down a deadend, has anyone here looked at WAI-ARIA and its potential suitability to being mapped as a microformat? If so any thoughts?
  129. [11:11:35] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust1608.vic01.dataco.com.au) has joined #microformats
  130. [11:12:52] <Whiskey_M> before the tar and feathers come out - I haven't looked in any depth, it's just a thought and I am not saying it should be considered for a microformat
  131. [11:13:15] <Whiskey_M> hey Drew, how goes?
  132. [11:13:48] <drewinthehead> not too shabby ... still no internets at home, so only lurking here during the day when I'm able
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  135. [11:16:30] <Whiskey_M> are you along to the next WSG london meet-up?
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  138. [11:18:36] <drewinthehead> I'll need to check out when it is. Heading into a meeting.. back shortly
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  142. [11:36:55] <drewinthehead> i think i may be able to make it to the next WSG, Whiskey_M
  143. [11:37:43] <Whiskey_M> cool, same venue as last time - on pay day and time for a few beers after :)
  144. [11:39:09] <Whiskey_M> 'twas that and the latest dom scripting presentation by Chris Heilmann that got me thinking about ARIA
  145. [11:48:21] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
  146. [11:51:13] * ChrisHeilmann (i=bla@nat/yahoo/x-64521b0233776f91) has joined #microformats
  147. [11:51:13] <jibot> ChrisHeilmann is Christian Heilmann, physically located in London and at http://wait-till-i.com
  148. [11:51:32] <Whiskey_M> speak of the devil...
  149. [11:52:58] <ChrisHeilmann> <MsPiggy>who moi?</MsPiggy>
  150. [11:53:29] <Whiskey_M> indeed, scaned over your screencast earlier today
  151. [11:53:50] <ChrisHeilmann> just uploading that to youtube
  152. [11:55:39] <ChrisHeilmann> did you enjoy it?
  153. [11:59:51] <Whiskey_M> it's easy to follow and a good 10 minutes - hopefully it will encourage more people to adopt that way of thinking
  154. [12:00:34] <ChrisHeilmann> I am right now trying to set up a TOC for a book in that style. Something like a "Don't make me think" for coders
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  156. [12:05:09] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  158. [12:14:24] <jibot> davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
  159. [12:15:57] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust1608.vic01.dataco.com.au) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
  160. [12:16:48] <Whiskey_M> you mean that coders think? ;)
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  171. [13:20:02] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
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  178. [13:49:57] <jibot> monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
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  181. [13:55:58] <jibot> whafro is M. Jackson Wilkinson, a designer/developer for Grassroots Enterprise in Washington, DC
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  187. [14:03:23] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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  202. [15:05:15] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  205. [15:32:08] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13447 * Full Decent * (-25) New Examples -
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  208. [15:32:43] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
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  214. [15:44:02] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
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  218. [15:48:05] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  240. [16:21:20] <jibot> amir is Amir Guindehi and blogs at http://amir.ch/weblog
  241. [16:23:15] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=13448 * DrewMcLellan * (+16) Q: ''Who controls microformats?'' -
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  243. [16:23:46] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  244. [16:28:41] * briansuda (n=briansud@82.221.34.106) has joined #microformats
  245. [16:28:41] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  246. [16:28:41] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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  250. [16:52:21] * mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@c4.gbrownc.on.ca) Quit ("Leaving")
  251. [16:57:48] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=13449 * Phae * (+247) Upcoming -
  252. [16:57:54] <mfbot> [[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2 * Phae * (+284)
  253. [16:59:40] <mfbot> [[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13450 * Phae * (+6)
  254. [17:01:46] <mfbot> [[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13451 * Phae * (+477) Summary -
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  257. [17:04:17] <mfbot> [[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13452 * Brian * (+23) Microformateers in attendance -
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  262. [17:20:27] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  263. [17:21:00] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust1608.vic01.dataco.com.au) has joined #microformats
  264. [17:25:57] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-09032b2dc340df58) has joined #microformats
  265. [17:25:57] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
  266. [17:26:56] * briansuda waves at mkaply
  267. [17:27:09] * mkaply waves back
  268. [17:27:16] <mkaply> So how many folks are going to be in Austin for SXSW?
  269. [17:27:22] <mkaply> from this community?
  270. [17:27:57] <briansuda> http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of
  271. [17:28:08] <ChrisHeilmann> I was to go but I am working in Sunnyvale instead
  272. [17:29:15] <briansuda> but you will be at http://thehighlandfling.com/2007/
  273. [17:30:38] * bear42 is now known as bear
  274. [17:30:48] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  275. [17:30:55] * mkaply needs a job where he goes to these conferences :)
  276. [17:30:59] <ChrisHeilmann> briansuda aye, on stage
  277. [17:31:08] <ChrisHeilmann> thinking of wearing a kilt
  278. [17:31:19] <briansuda> that would be a site to see!
  279. [17:31:33] <briansuda> mkaply, you could always quit working and go to all the conferences you want :)
  280. [17:31:41] <mfbot> [[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13453 * Phae * (+125) Proposed sessions -
  281. [17:35:47] <mkaply> briansuda: need to become independently wealthy first
  282. [17:36:37] <briansuda> or just offer to setup chairs, etc and you can usually attend inexchange for working it
  283. [17:38:22] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
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  286. [17:41:28] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  287. [17:41:55] * ChrisHeilmann wants a CC T-short
  288. [17:42:00] <ChrisHeilmann> shirt
  289. [17:42:36] * briansuda wants a microformats t-shirt
  290. [17:44:03] <mlinksva> http://creativecommons.org/support/store
  291. [17:44:15] * lemanal (n=lemanal@buster.cs.earlham.edu) has joined #microformats
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  293. [17:46:31] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  294. [17:46:31] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  295. [17:49:19] * JamieKnight (n=chatzill@host81-152-176-171.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  296. [17:49:28] <JamieKnight> hiya,
  297. [17:49:38] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #microformats
  298. [17:49:45] <JamieKnight> hiya JMulder
  299. [17:49:52] <JMulder> Y hello thar.
  300. [17:50:15] <JamieKnight> hiyam
  301. [17:50:18] <JamieKnight> how be you?
  302. [17:50:36] <JMulder> Man, it's 6:50PM and I just got home. I feel so sorry for you guys working your full-time jobs :(
  303. [17:50:50] <JMulder> Fine. Just having a bit of withdrawal from student life.
  304. [17:50:51] <JamieKnight> i am not working full time,
  305. [17:51:02] <JamieKnight> i am not student life?
  306. [17:51:05] <JamieKnight> sorry,
  307. [17:51:11] <JamieKnight> what do you mean by student life
  308. [17:51:27] * JamieKnight is 17 and works via the net in a "flexable" sort of way
  309. [17:51:30] <JMulder> As in waking up at 1PM, spending the day browsing YouTube and then going to bed at 2AM.
  310. [17:51:35] <JMulder> Oh. Lucky you. ;)
  311. [17:51:41] <JamieKnight> ah,
  312. [17:51:47] <JamieKnight> so, like my life atm then,
  313. [17:52:06] <JMulder> I started graduation last week. Had to switch from that to regular 9 to 5:30 hours work :\
  314. [17:52:06] * JamieKnight is trapped a few hundred miles away from schoool, going back in september
  315. [17:52:13] <JamieKnight> ouch,
  316. [17:52:31] <JMulder> Yes, exactly.
  317. [17:52:34] <JamieKnight> you see the barcamp london thingy?
  318. [17:53:01] <JMulder> Not really. I'm not near London, geographically. Time-wise, you could say I am near London.
  319. [17:53:01] <JamieKnight> i seem to work better from 11am till 3am, then anyother time.
  320. [17:53:29] <JamieKnight> I am trying to perswade my boss to go (so i can go with him)
  321. [17:53:41] <ChrisHeilmann> Time wise a big chunk of europe is near london :)
  322. [17:53:57] <JamieKnight> hiya ChrisHeilmann
  323. [17:54:03] <JMulder> I'm near Amsterdam. ;)
  324. [17:54:18] <JamieKnight> in some parts of cornwall france is closer than london....
  325. [17:54:27] <JMulder> lol. True.
  326. [17:54:37] * JamieKnight has a feeling he i closer to france than london atm.....
  327. [17:54:50] * JamieKnight dissapear to googlmaps for a few secounds
  328. [17:55:00] <JMulder> Hmm. It's a 45 minute flight to London. In theory. :p
  329. [17:55:13] <ChrisHeilmann> A friend of mine is a teacher for French in Cornwall
  330. [17:55:14] <JMulder> The whole airport security thing takes days. ;)
  331. [17:55:43] <ChrisHeilmann> When her kids moaned about having to learn French she pointed at the window and claimed that France *is* closer than London
  332. [17:55:53] <JMulder> lol.
  333. [17:56:04] * mylesbraithwaite (n=mylesbra@c4.gbrownc.on.ca) Quit ("Leaving")
  334. [17:56:05] <ChrisHeilmann> I told her to show photos of French girls next time, that'll make at least the blokes study harder
  335. [17:56:15] <JamieKnight> hehe,
  336. [17:56:22] * JamieKnight does not speak french
  337. [17:56:30] <ChrisHeilmann> Airport security is a pain and a joke
  338. [17:56:39] <ChrisHeilmann> even more so is the one for the Eurostar
  339. [17:56:58] * JamieKnight does sign BSL, makaton and STC, and speak english, and write (very very little) japanease,
  340. [17:57:03] <JMulder> I prefer Italian girls myself.
  341. [17:57:04] <JamieKnight> but i could not get on with french
  342. [17:57:12] <JMulder> Besides Dutch, of course. Oh, Dutch <3
  343. [17:57:21] <JamieKnight> hehe,
  344. [17:57:39] <JMulder> Anyway. Dinner. bbl. :)
  345. [17:57:42] <ChrisHeilmann> I've been in paris monday the week before last, then last thursday and friday and will fly to California for two weeks end of the month. Then I will go for a workshop in Singapore for two days and then to Highland Fling.
  346. [17:57:51] <JMulder> Ok. Get out.
  347. [17:57:51] <ChrisHeilmann> I want a carte blanche for security checks!
  348. [17:57:52] <JMulder> You're no fun ;)
  349. [17:58:30] <JamieKnight> wowo, the jet set
  350. [17:58:36] <ChrisHeilmann> Dutch is easy. Chew on some dry bread and speak English and German
  351. [17:58:43] * JamieKnight wonders if the barcamp will let him go due to his age
  352. [17:58:49] <JamieKnight> ChrisHeilmann: Lol,
  353. [17:59:44] <ChrisHeilmann> Mind you, that is what Swedes say Danish is like, too
  354. [18:01:14] <mfbot> [[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13454 * Ben Ward * (+28) Microformateers in attendance -
  355. [18:01:26] <JamieKnight> alot of people tend to think that sign language is universal,
  356. [18:02:11] <ChrisHeilmann> sadly enough it isn't
  357. [18:02:19] <JamieKnight> nopers,
  358. [18:02:35] <JamieKnight> very frustrating, finding other signers can be hard in some areas,
  359. [18:02:41] <ChrisHeilmann> On Monday I had that live sign language translator next to me. God it looked exhausting. I felt a right bastard talking fast
  360. [18:03:00] * JamieKnight use to be mute and primaralry used sign to comnicate
  361. [18:03:31] <JamieKnight> live translation is hard for perfect BSL grammer, as you need the whole sentence before you can recomboulate it.
  362. [18:03:51] * JamieKnight wonder who ChrisHeilmann was talking to have a live signer,
  363. [18:05:39] <ChrisHeilmann> braillenet conference: http://inova.snv.jussieu.fr/evenements/colloques/servonline/Actes/description_ang.php?id=66&num=45
  364. [18:06:04] <ChrisHeilmann> is it mandatory that conferences with disability topics have totally non-memorable URLs?
  365. [18:06:27] <JamieKnight> seems so,
  366. [18:06:33] <JamieKnight> sounds intresting though,
  367. [18:06:46] * ChrisHeilmann marvels at the word recomboulate, will print it out and stick it on the wall
  368. [18:07:19] <JamieKnight> wehn i was younger (i started speaking when i was 8 got more mastery by the time i was 12 ish) i use to get very frustrated
  369. [18:13:16] <ChrisHeilmann> I need to buy a good headset but none fit my hair
  370. [18:13:22] <ChrisHeilmann> *detangle*
  371. [18:13:50] * mkaply always found it annoying that sign language is language/country specific.
  372. [18:13:58] <mkaply> It would be cool if sign language was the one universal language :)
  373. [18:14:01] <JamieKnight> my hair is simmilar to yours, cept alot shorter,
  374. [18:14:17] <JamieKnight> mkaply:
  375. [18:14:28] <JamieKnight> it would be very cool if it was,
  376. [18:14:48] <JamieKnight> one issue i have found, is that there are multiple signs for one thing / object
  377. [18:14:49] <ChrisHeilmann> well, there are several signs that are understood universally.
  378. [18:14:54] <ChrisHeilmann> and result in punches
  379. [18:15:06] <JamieKnight> nod and shake are pretty much universal,,
  380. [18:15:41] <JamieKnight> no in BSL (right index finger point move left and right) is quite universal,
  381. [18:17:39] <ChrisHeilmann> ah! But I remember teaching Southern Indian developers who did shake their head to agree.
  382. [18:17:43] <ChrisHeilmann> Thus puzzling me
  383. [18:17:55] <JamieKnight> hmmmm,
  384. [18:19:02] * JamieKnight can image the confusion if you were trying to sign with them.
  385. [18:19:20] <JamieKnight> i find it amazing how people can comnicate in car parks with waves and mouthing words.
  386. [18:19:59] <JamieKnight> i dont understand what people are saying like that....... leads to some big confusions
  387. [18:21:38] <ChrisHeilmann> If that was a Greek or Italian parking lot then most communication is conducted via car horns anyways.
  388. [18:22:13] <JamieKnight> i wonder how you learn clingon......
  389. [18:22:41] <ChrisHeilmann> there are language courses in Klingon
  390. [18:22:57] <ChrisHeilmann> even by Langenscheidt which is the #1 German language company
  391. [18:22:57] <JamieKnight> ChrisHeilmann: what is the process to report abuse of an e-mail adress on yahoo?
  392. [18:23:05] <JamieKnight> hehe,
  393. [18:23:12] <JamieKnight> harry potter was published in klingon.
  394. [18:23:30] <JamieKnight> as was a few books on autism i have (i have the english version, and the adudio version)
  395. [18:23:35] <ChrisHeilmann> http://help.yahoo.com/help/uk/abuse/abuse-01.html
  396. [18:23:44] <JamieKnight> thanks,
  397. [18:23:51] <ChrisHeilmann> google supports klingon
  398. [18:24:05] <JamieKnight> :D
  399. [18:24:13] <ChrisHeilmann> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=foo&btnG=Search&hl=xx-klingon
  400. [18:24:21] <ChrisHeilmann> http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=foo&btnG=Search&hl=xx-elmer is good, too
  401. [18:25:12] <JamieKnight> hehe,
  402. [18:25:35] <ChrisHeilmann> Time to leave the office.
  403. [18:25:45] <JamieKnight> have a nice evening,
  404. [18:27:16] <ChrisHeilmann> all of you, too!
  405. [18:27:36] * ChrisHeilmann (i=bla@nat/yahoo/x-64521b0233776f91) has left #microformats
  406. [18:29:07] * mkaply is very confused.
  407. [18:29:18] <JamieKnight> why are you confused mkaply?
  408. [18:29:26] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) has joined #microformats
  409. [18:30:04] <mkaply> why aren't rrule and and attendee and sequence referenced in any of the hcalendar cheat sheets
  410. [18:30:18] <JamieKnight> i dont know,
  411. [18:30:30] * JamieKnight has not used much hacalender,
  412. [18:30:49] <JamieKnight> alsthough, from what i have done a easier to use outlook compatibility process would be useful....
  413. [18:31:06] * JamieKnight is thinking of writing one, but needs to do ALOT more research first
  414. [18:31:12] <mkaply> Which outlook? The problem is that Microsoft obviously didn't care about the vCard spec
  415. [18:31:21] <JamieKnight> true,
  416. [18:31:25] <JamieKnight> 2003 i use,
  417. [18:31:31] <briansuda> i think partly because there are still open questions and unsolved issues (and it is an unneeded time-sink)
  418. [18:31:51] <JamieKnight> microsoft and standards dont normally live in the same sentence
  419. [18:31:59] <JamieKnight> briansuda: i am not sre,
  420. [18:32:03] <JamieKnight> sure, rather,
  421. [18:32:03] <mkaply> briansuda: that's not fare - X2V does them - so clearly you "understood" the issues - you just didn't tell anyone :)
  422. [18:32:10] <mkaply> s/fare/fair
  423. [18:32:16] <JamieKnight> as, alot of people use outlook,
  424. [18:32:16] <briansuda> not to say it does then well :)
  425. [18:32:33] <JamieKnight> and alot of hcals dont work with outlook
  426. [18:32:50] <JamieKnight> whenn i was testing with them i had to traul the web looking for an example calender which worked.
  427. [18:33:03] <JamieKnight> (turn sout on of the hcals in the wild worked)
  428. [18:33:43] <JamieKnight> i got Very frustarted with it, and i can see alot of developer not wanting to impliment hCals unless it is garennteed to work with Some version of outlook,
  429. [18:33:55] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit ()
  430. [18:34:01] <briansuda> according to the iCalendar spec, ATTENDEE needs to be referenced with a URI
  431. [18:34:05] * mkaply notes that the attendee stuff looks scary
  432. [18:34:35] * JamieKnight wonders why people keep referring to URL's are URI's
  433. [18:34:39] <briansuda> plus there is about 50 options for 'sent-to', 'delegated-to'... which i have NEVER seen used in the wild
  434. [18:34:42] <mkaply> ATTENDEE;MAILTO:jsmith@host1.com (mailto:jsmith@host1.com)\, RSVPed? TRUE&gt;
  435. [18:34:47] <mkaply> IS that really right?
  436. [18:34:50] <briansuda> that is an error
  437. [18:35:18] <JamieKnight> is the attendi required for outlook?
  438. [18:35:19] <mkaply> a URL is a URI but a URI isn't a URL.
  439. [18:35:31] <JamieKnight> whats the difference?
  440. [18:35:36] * JamieKnight is learning
  441. [18:36:18] <mkaply> A Universal Resource Identifier (URI) is a member of this universal set of names in registered name spaces and addresses referring to registered protocols or name spaces. A Uniform Resource Locator (URL), defined elsewhere, is a form of URI which expresses an address which maps onto an access algorithm using network protocols.
  442. [18:36:21] <briansuda> url: http://example.org
  443. [18:36:43] <briansuda> uri: tag:blah:foo/2007-01-01/ or uuid: or mailto: or ...
  444. [18:36:52] <JamieKnight> okay
  445. [18:37:03] <JamieKnight> that mase some sense,
  446. [18:37:07] <mkaply> So I had an idea for the tagspace problem.
  447. [18:37:14] <JamieKnight> so, somthing like the rel tag would be a URI?
  448. [18:37:18] <mkaply> I emailed the guy that owns tagspace.com (He's not using it)
  449. [18:37:24] <JamieKnight> ah,
  450. [18:37:41] <JamieKnight> sub.tagspace.com or tagspace.com/name
  451. [18:38:05] * JamieKnight is guessing....
  452. [18:38:13] <mkaply> people would be able to register like tagspace.com/mkaply/firefox
  453. [18:38:24] <mkaply> and redirect it wherever they wanted (if their server didn't handle "proper" tagspaces)
  454. [18:38:47] <mkaply> briansuda: this attendee stuff is scary.
  455. [18:38:51] <JamieKnight> mkaply: what are you meaning by proper namespaces?
  456. [18:38:51] * mkaply will just leave that out for now
  457. [18:39:17] <JamieKnight> do you mean things like mod rewrite?
  458. [18:39:24] * JamieKnight is confused
  459. [18:39:32] <mkaply> JamieKnight: like if on my server, the firefox tag is http://www.kaply.com/weblog/firefox.html, I could register http://tagspace.com/mkaply/tag/firefox to point there
  460. [18:39:44] <JamieKnight> okay,
  461. [18:39:47] <JamieKnight> i undersetand
  462. [18:40:47] <JamieKnight> however, doesent that cause the issue that the domain is then very long,
  463. [18:41:06] <JamieKnight> rather than just kaply/tags/
  464. [18:41:37] <JamieKnight> you have the added lenth of the URL, however, if you cant get the other way working on the site, i supos eit solves the proble....or somthing.
  465. [18:41:47] <mkaply> in theory. But it also gives the ability to aggregate tagspaces
  466. [18:42:01] <mkaply> like tagspace.com/tags/firefox could show all the firefox tagspaces
  467. [18:42:11] * JamieKnight stops trying to sound like this make sense to him, and puts thw words back into his backsaide form where they came
  468. [18:42:18] <JamieKnight> mkaply: true,
  469. [18:42:27] <JamieKnight> although, why is that useful?
  470. [18:43:03] <mkaply> JamieKnight: Just trying to give people an alternative if they swear there is no way they can use "correct" rel-tag syntax :)
  471. [18:43:04] <JamieKnight> tagsapes leading to more tagspaces? you could end up going around in a circle,
  472. [18:43:17] <JamieKnight> mkaply: true,
  473. [18:43:31] * JMulder votes for the topic to return to Dutch girls
  474. [18:43:42] <JamieKnight> although agragation is an idea, it is not the main idea, sorry, i misunderstood.
  475. [18:43:43] * mkaply remembers a dutch girl fondly
  476. [18:43:51] <JMulder> Pics or it didn't happen. ;)
  477. [18:43:56] <mkaply> met her on AOL instant messenger a long time ago.
  478. [18:44:04] <mkaply> we don't need to go there )
  479. [18:44:11] * JamieKnight wonders if he should duck out untill chat return to <18 freindslyness
  480. [18:44:14] <JMulder> lol.
  481. [18:44:35] <JMulder> I'll hush and harass some people in #devart.
  482. [18:44:37] * mkaply keeps i clean
  483. [18:44:50] <JMulder> Clean. Nice pun. ;)
  484. [18:45:03] <briansuda> back to the original question: sequence, rrule, attendee
  485. [18:45:33] * JamieKnight cant find anyone is devart....
  486. [18:46:13] <JamieKnight> briansuda: i havent a clue what you are even talking about, would you kidly explain a bit?
  487. [18:46:49] <mkaply> JamieKnight: check out: http://www.xfront.com/microformats/hCalendar.html
  488. [18:46:56] * HenrichP (n=Miranda@e176084200.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #microformats
  489. [18:47:24] <JamieKnight> thanks mkaply
  490. [18:47:27] <briansuda> http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2007-02-12#T183004
  491. [18:47:34] * JamieKnight dissapears to read the document
  492. [18:49:47] * Skooter (n=skooter@x1-6-00-0e-a6-6c-ab-19.k469.webspeed.dk) has joined #microformats
  493. [18:49:54] <HenrichP> Hello Tantek,
  494. [18:50:53] <Skooter> hi, i dont get the thing about the rel="tag"... 90% og all links ends with .html anyway...
  495. [18:52:13] <JamieKnight> its uses mod rewrite,
  496. [18:52:22] <JamieKnight> so, you can take it to anypage,
  497. [18:52:43] <JamieKnight> i think...
  498. [18:56:16] <Skooter> ahem... think i missed something... didnt think mod rewrite had some thing to do with mircoformats...
  499. [18:58:22] <Skooter> i can make urls look nicer with mod rewrite yes... but i link to another website the url is not up to me
  500. [18:58:56] <JamieKnight> Skooter: what i am reffering to, is that most of the time (in the wild) a tagspace is at a cetain direcotory, like jkg3.com/tags/
  501. [18:59:15] <JamieKnight> if it was jkg3.com/plates.pgp?tag=tasname
  502. [18:59:28] <JamieKnight> thne it would make it more diffcult for implimentors to .... erm...impliment.
  503. [19:00:29] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  504. [19:00:29] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  505. [19:00:29] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  506. [19:00:59] * JamieKnight mean plates. php and the word then. he is typo planet today
  507. [19:01:08] <JamieKnight> brb
  508. [19:01:09] <Skooter> JamieKnight: ahem... yes
  509. [19:01:19] <JamieKnight> what does ahem mean?
  510. [19:01:32] * mkaply discovers that yahoo maps sucks
  511. [19:01:40] <Skooter> heh... i still dont get it ... :-S
  512. [19:01:49] <JamieKnight> okay,
  513. [19:01:54] <mkaply> Skooter: think of it this way
  514. [19:02:00] <mkaply> Let's say I was parsing that URL to get the "tag"
  515. [19:02:03] <mkaply> Like Operator does
  516. [19:02:12] <JamieKnight> if you were like mkaply and writing an implimentaiont all you need i the domain, not the whoele adress,
  517. [19:02:12] <mkaply> How would I find the tag name if everyone used a different syntax?
  518. [19:02:21] * JamieKnight shuts up and let mkaply explan.
  519. [19:02:36] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ("Bye!")
  520. [19:02:54] <mkaply> You might say "use the text inside of the link, don't parse the URL"
  521. [19:03:24] <mkaply> but that doesn't really work either, since the link could have any text in it like "search flickr for photos tagged with foo"
  522. [19:04:40] <Skooter> hmm think i get the point
  523. [19:07:09] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  524. [19:07:09] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
  525. [19:10:24] * Skooter (n=skooter@x1-6-00-0e-a6-6c-ab-19.k469.webspeed.dk) has left #microformats
  526. [19:10:50] * shawn (n=shawn@adsl-70-132-3-204.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  527. [19:15:14] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  528. [19:17:28] * monkinetic (i=redmonk@bia.crschmidt.net) has left #microformats
  529. [19:22:56] <sreynen> mkaply, tagspace redirection only works if parsers don't follow redirection
  530. [19:23:26] <briansuda> yeah, it depends on the HTTP response code sent
  531. [19:23:45] <briansuda> but it is a cleaver solution
  532. [19:23:51] <sreynen> and while that may be the norm now, i'm not sure we should be explicitly encouraging parsers to act differently than human consumers
  533. [19:24:11] <mkaply> the parsers only job should be to get the tagname, right?
  534. [19:24:25] <sreynen> not necessarily
  535. [19:24:35] <JamieKnight> and it ots the Tools job to use that tag name
  536. [19:24:37] <sreynen> the meaning of the tag name is relative to the tag space
  537. [19:25:15] <sreynen> human readers follow redirects to get that contextual meaning
  538. [19:26:05] <JamieKnight> somtimes,
  539. [19:26:19] <JamieKnight> gravity.com/tags/up is pretty universal.
  540. [19:26:41] <JamieKnight> but, jamiesfamily.com/tags/dad would be relative
  541. [19:26:46] <mkaply> all the human reader sees is a link. They don't necessarily understand what it's going to do for them except show some things from somewhere that are related to that link
  542. [19:26:52] <JamieKnight> although, dad is the part we want,
  543. [19:27:30] <JamieKnight> when i click on a "dad" tag i expect to see dad related content, not content relating to my dad,
  544. [19:27:33] <mkaply> the only goal in parsing the tag is to get what we think the tagspace is, so we can relate that tagspace to other tagspaces
  545. [19:27:53] <sreynen> that may be your only goal
  546. [19:27:57] <sreynen> but there is more meaning there
  547. [19:27:58] * pecus (n=pecus@213.13.106.14) has joined #microformats
  548. [19:28:15] <JamieKnight> sreynen: how would you propose the meaning is structured?
  549. [19:28:16] <sreynen> and we shouldn't assume no one will ever want to use it
  550. [19:28:25] <mkaply> Everyone keeps telling me there is more meaning, but I'm simply not getting it. IS there a good document somewhere?
  551. [19:29:02] <JamieKnight> sreynen: how it is atm, it is possible for any "extra meaning" to be gained
  552. [19:29:38] <JamieKnight> jamiesfamily.com/tags/dad or somthing like it would rewuire a domain specific implimentation, but it could be done,
  553. [19:29:47] <sreynen> the same tag has slightly different meaning at two different tag spaces
  554. [19:29:52] <JamieKnight> *require
  555. [19:30:11] <sreynen> even if the exact different isn't known to a parser, the fact that there is a difference is known
  556. [19:30:15] <JamieKnight> i need to restart BRB
  557. [19:30:19] * JamieKnight (n=chatzill@host81-152-176-171.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]")
  558. [19:30:46] <sreynen> and those differences could be made explicit
  559. [19:30:52] <mkaply> known by the fact that there are anchors?
  560. [19:31:04] <sreynen> known by the fact that there's different domains
  561. [19:31:19] * Phae (n=phae@80-43-88-136.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
  562. [19:31:19] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  563. [19:31:23] <sreynen> but if one domain redirects to the other, they aren't really different
  564. [19:31:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
  565. [19:31:39] <sreynen> at least not to a human reader
  566. [19:32:17] <mkaply> But the browser already presents the ability for the user to click on either link and display those tagspaces. So the question is what additional ability can a user agent provide based on the given information
  567. [19:32:43] <mkaply> The only thing I see is let the user use the given tag to navigate to other tagspaces.
  568. [19:35:20] <briansuda> if you tag your post about XYZ and relate that to your own tagspace, then you are giving it more meaning
  569. [19:35:32] <briansuda> but aggregators like technorati take that tag
  570. [19:35:32] <briansuda> http://technorati.com/tag/microformats
  571. [19:35:48] <briansuda> and put it in their own tagspace, and that might not be the same context you meant originally
  572. [19:36:19] <briansuda> so while i agree with sreynen, i think tags are divisible from the tagspace
  573. [19:36:37] <briansuda> otherwise what is the point of aggregation?
  574. [19:37:06] <mkaply> actually, operator is a classic example of that. I get some weird hits on the tag operator :)
  575. [19:37:31] * shawn (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) has joined #microformats
  576. [19:37:51] <briansuda> my hometown is STL (saint louis) and i tags it with that, unfortunatly so do many C programers and their standard template libraries
  577. [19:38:13] <briansuda> that's why Flickr invented tag clusters
  578. [19:38:29] <briansuda> Tag A is often found with Tag F, and G
  579. [19:38:33] <sreynen> aggregation works on the assumption that context isn't that important
  580. [19:38:34] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  581. [19:38:34] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
  582. [19:38:43] <danja> briansuda, but isn't it reasonable to see technorati/del.icio.us etc tagspaces as supersets of more local ones?
  583. [19:38:56] <sreynen> but i don't think that assumption should be within rel-tag itself
  584. [19:39:20] <danja> no, that should completely independent
  585. [19:39:35] <briansuda> if you explicitly put that in the spec, then aggregators are invalid
  586. [19:39:55] <sreynen> i'm not sure who's responding to what now
  587. [19:40:02] <briansuda> :)
  588. [19:40:22] <mfbot> [[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13455 * Adactio * (+31) Microformateers in attendance -
  589. [19:41:00] * danja hasn't looked at rel-tag spec for a while, but ran across this recently with tim bray's atom:category stuff
  590. [19:41:16] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit ("goodbye, farewell, auf Wiedersehen")
  591. [19:41:31] <briansuda> rel-tag has been a hot-topic around here lately
  592. [19:41:52] <sreynen> anyone is free to ignore the context a tag space adds to the tags, as aggregators tend to do, but that doesn't really solve the problem for people who want to maintain that context
  593. [19:42:09] * shawn (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  594. [19:42:30] <briansuda> sreynen, i agree to that
  595. [19:42:42] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  596. [19:42:48] <briansuda> who wants and how do you intent to maintain that context?
  597. [19:42:49] <danja> hang on, doesn't the href bit give the tagspace?
  598. [19:43:03] <briansuda> yes, but you can divorse the tag from the tagspace
  599. [19:43:25] <briansuda> then once you have the tag only, you loose some of the meaning from the tagspace
  600. [19:43:26] * shawn (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) has joined #microformats
  601. [19:43:40] <briansuda> Plugins are going things like finding a tag "turkey" for instance
  602. [19:43:42] <danja> ok, so e.g. technorati are throwing info away by moving from another tagspace to their own - but is that a problem?
  603. [19:43:55] <briansuda> then saying, view "turkey" on Flickr, or "Turkey" on del.icio.us
  604. [19:43:57] <sreynen> danja, mkaply was talking about redirecting one tagspace to another, to solve the problem of sites that can't use standard tag space URL syntax for whatever reason
  605. [19:44:17] <danja> thanks sreynen, missed that bit
  606. [19:44:24] <briansuda> danja, i don't know if they are throwing it away, but they are aggregating it
  607. [19:44:26] * danja mute self
  608. [19:44:50] <briansuda> Flickr attempts to solve this with 'clusters'
  609. [19:45:09] * miyagawa (n=miyagawa@monster.bulknews.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  610. [19:45:17] <briansuda> so it will show you "turkey"+"culture" or "turkey"+"trimmings"
  611. [19:45:45] <briansuda> which is also aggregated from other "releated" tags and nothing from the tagspaces
  612. [19:46:42] <sreynen> but the related tags are related via the tagspaces, aren't they?
  613. [19:47:01] <danja> briansuda, taking your stl example, could you please recap the redirect issue?
  614. [19:47:56] <briansuda> sreynen, i thought they were taken from a threshold of a percentage of other posts/tags that also have that tag
  615. [19:48:17] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  616. [19:48:20] * miyagawa (n=miyagawa@monster.bulknews.net) has joined #microformats
  617. [19:48:38] <sreynen> briansuda, right, but each post exists within a tagspace
  618. [19:49:01] <briansuda> yeah, but i think it is extracted on a post-by-post issue
  619. [19:49:09] <sreynen> yeah
  620. [19:49:32] <briansuda> danja, i use "STL" for saint louis, but many others use it for Standard Template Library. so that is an example of where CONTEXT matters
  621. [19:49:44] <briansuda> the redirect idea was this:
  622. [19:50:11] <briansuda> for folks that can't use mod-rewrite and don't want to link to off-site tagspaces ...
  623. [19:50:22] <briansuda> they could use a service similar to tinyURL...
  624. [19:50:33] <briansuda> tagspace.example.org/foobar
  625. [19:50:47] <briansuda> then foobar redirects to their currently established ...
  626. [19:51:05] <briansuda> tags.php?tag=foobar&page=24&limit=1&users=ALL
  627. [19:51:40] <briansuda> then you get your legacy tagspaces in the rel-tag format without using 3rd-party sites
  628. [19:52:06] <briansuda> (well just the redirect, but you might beable to set that up as a subdomain on your own system or something)
  629. [19:52:12] <danja> ok, sounds reasonable
  630. [19:52:22] <danja> where is the context lost?
  631. [19:52:32] <briansuda> in that sense, it isn't
  632. [19:52:57] <briansuda> we were talking about plugins like operator that extract "STL" and say, see photos tagged "STL" on flickr
  633. [19:53:09] <briansuda> in my own tagspace those would be city pics....
  634. [19:53:20] <briansuda> on del.icio.is it is mostly C/C++ links
  635. [19:53:29] <briansuda> so some context is lost in translation
  636. [19:53:56] * JamieKnight (n=chatzill@host81-152-176-171.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  637. [19:53:56] <jibot> JamieKnight is jamie knight, a young web developer based in the UK. keeping his blog at http://jkg3.com
  638. [19:54:15] <JamieKnight> hiya evryone,
  639. [19:55:47] <danja> briansuda, ok thanks
  640. [19:55:51] <sreynen> danja, my worry is that we may add machine-readable context at the resolved tag URL (as that's where human-readable context is added), and we won't be able to do that if we start assuming only the contents of the href attribute identify the tag space, and not the actual resolved URL (which may be different)
  641. [19:56:36] <sreynen> but it's really not worth worrying about right now
  642. [19:57:13] <briansuda> sreynen, you mean tags.example.org/health could redirect to a page about sweets?
  643. [19:57:24] <danja> hmm, but isn't this straight WebArch - the URI identifies a related resource, the relation being the rel, resolving the URI should produce a related representation
  644. [19:58:13] <briansuda> but the rel in this case is rel-tag
  645. [19:58:15] <sreynen> no, i mean wikipedia.org/wiki/health could contain something like <a href="wikipedia.org/wiki/medicine" rel="related"> and that could be read by parsers to give context to a rel-tag link
  646. [19:58:22] <briansuda> the relationship is that the resource is a 'tag'
  647. [19:59:39] <briansuda> hm, that is a conundrum, because what if i have a post about 'STL' meaning the city and 'STL' meaning the Lib, my own tagspace can't handle that
  648. [19:59:42] * anselxyz (n=chatzill@12.22.59.162) has joined #microformats
  649. [19:59:57] <briansuda> you could only tell the difference based on the OTHER tags i used in each post
  650. [20:00:27] <briansuda> neither is a perfect system...
  651. [20:02:14] <sreynen> i think it makes more sense to get the context of your tag from what you link to more than the surrounding tags, and using the surrounding tags is more popular right now primarily because it doesn't require loading additional pages
  652. [20:03:05] <briansuda> well, that also might be something for the market to decide
  653. [20:03:23] <briansuda> if they don't want to load additional pages, and it solves 80%+ of the issues
  654. [20:03:29] <briansuda> then EOF
  655. [20:03:36] <sreynen> right
  656. [20:03:49] <briansuda> if someone else wants to be more compresensive, and it is better they will win in the market
  657. [20:04:12] <sreynen> i wouldn't go that far. i run OSX
  658. [20:04:25] <briansuda> so do i :)
  659. [20:04:36] <briansuda> all other things being equal (price, etc)
  660. [20:04:36] <sreynen> better doesn't always win in the market
  661. [20:05:02] <sreynen> right, but all other things are never equal
  662. [20:05:34] <briansuda> but do you think this is solvable at the spec level? or the implementation level?
  663. [20:05:39] <sreynen> no
  664. [20:05:49] <sreynen> we have no choice but to follow the market
  665. [20:06:16] <briansuda> i don't want to seem like i am just sitting behind the spec and using that to defend my arguments...
  666. [20:06:43] <sreynen> no, i don't think we disagree
  667. [20:07:11] <sreynen> in retrospect, i raised an issue that's irrelevant in practice
  668. [20:07:43] <sreynen> but is very relevant on my hypothetical ideal web
  669. [20:08:01] <briansuda> i just feel lately i have been defending rel-tag alot lately
  670. [20:10:06] <sreynen> i think a lot of people want it to do more than it does
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  683. [20:34:35] <jibot> WizCraker is Caxi@Eitrigg, WoW, US, Alliance and Dustin D'Amour
  684. [20:44:07] <mfbot> [[code-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=code-examples&diff=0&oldid=13456 * AndyMabbett * (+90) Portable Application Description
  685. [20:45:33] <mfbot> [[stock-symbol-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=stock-symbol-examples&diff=0&oldid=13457 * AnselHalliburton * (+74) Added Google Finance example
  686. [20:46:24] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13458 * Alex Hillman * (-220) Examples with some problems -
  687. [20:46:45] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13459 * Alex Hillman * (+189) New Examples -
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  693. [21:12:31] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  694. [21:12:31] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  695. [21:14:30] * anselxyz (n=chatzill@12.22.59.162) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  696. [21:17:33] <mkaply> opinion question. One of the options I have in Operator is "bookmark" as in it puts a data/text version of a microformat in your bookmarks.
  697. [21:17:40] <mkaply> Does anyone find that useful? Or is that a total geek feature
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  711. [21:55:40] <mfbot> [[stock-symbol-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=stock-symbol-examples&diff=0&oldid=13460 * AnselHalliburton * (+34) Added not about class A shares
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  714. [22:07:51] <mfbot> [[stock-symbol-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=stock-symbol-examples&diff=0&oldid=13461 * AnselHalliburton * (+571) Added Business Week excerpt to Real-World Examples section; shows exchange not always included
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  726. [22:58:35] <jibot> JamieKnight is jamie knight, a young web developer based in the UK. keeping his blog at http://jkg3.com
  727. [22:58:41] <JamieKnight> hiya,
  728. [23:08:56] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
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  730. [23:15:18] <JamieKnight> hiya,
  731. [23:16:14] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
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  733. [23:17:08] <vbgunz> just curious, using XFN, how do you describe the enemy or the person you hate? XFN seems to imply a friend so whats the opposite? e.g. XEN?
  734. [23:18:01] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13462 * RaveAboutit * (+91)
  735. [23:18:04] <JamieKnight> i dont think there is a value,
  736. [23:18:18] <JamieKnight> if you have met them, you could mark them as met.
  737. [23:18:28] <JamieKnight> "met disliked"
  738. [23:18:32] <JamieKnight> would be sematic
  739. [23:18:37] <JamieKnight> or, just disliked,
  740. [23:18:43] * daggi (n=chrisada@82-45-160-216.cable.ubr05.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  741. [23:18:45] <JamieKnight> but its not part of the uf
  742. [23:19:05] <vbgunz> well, I dislike the guy across the street but he is not exacty the enemy :)
  743. [23:19:45] <JamieKnight> why would you link to somone you hate and drive traffic at thier site?
  744. [23:19:57] <vbgunz> just curious, maybe a little finer detail e.g., instead of "friend" under friendship, enemy or asshociate would be cool :)
  745. [23:20:17] <JamieKnight> hmmm,
  746. [23:20:28] <JamieKnight> i dont think it was quite the idea of XFN
  747. [23:20:30] <vbgunz> or another word not so harsh
  748. [23:20:41] <vbgunz> heh, I get it, just curious :)
  749. [23:20:45] <JamieKnight> after all, xhtml Freinds netowrk...
  750. [23:20:50] <JamieKnight> implies you are freinds,
  751. [23:20:58] <JamieKnight> maybe you could propose a new format.
  752. [23:21:05] <JamieKnight> maybe TAN
  753. [23:21:16] <JamieKnight> (Teen anguish network) </joke>
  754. [23:21:22] <vbgunz> :)
  755. [23:22:18] <JamieKnight> HUN Hate unlimted Network
  756. [23:22:44] <JamieKnight> evrything from: dont like to would like to chop into small piece and thown into a pit of discarded needle.
  757. [23:22:48] * Q-collective (n=Q-collec@gentoo/userrep/q-collective) has joined #microformats
  758. [23:23:17] <vbgunz> I think it would probably be better if it could get merged in with XFN. to me it's not about traffic but expressing relationship with someone. I can probably put rev="vote-against" to sum it up, that'll probably be better, not sure
  759. [23:23:24] <vbgunz> heh
  760. [23:23:30] <JamieKnight> hmmmm,
  761. [23:23:42] <JamieKnight> XFN has freinds in the name soooo......
  762. [23:23:49] <JamieKnight> i would assume it means freinds,
  763. [23:23:53] <vbgunz> i know
  764. [23:24:03] <JamieKnight> also, i supose it is not very comnunity central to state who you hate....
  765. [23:24:08] <vbgunz> but you can easily just say *not friends with* :)
  766. [23:24:54] <JamieKnight> freinds !== no freinds,
  767. [23:25:04] <JamieKnight> no tranformable work in my opinion,
  768. [23:25:09] <JamieKnight> but, i supose,
  769. [23:26:56] <vbgunz> well I suppose if I strongly disagree with someone for whatever reason rev="vote-against" would probably be the best bet to express that... at least for now :)
  770. [23:28:23] <JamieKnight> hmmmm,
  771. [23:28:26] <JamieKnight> i supse,
  772. [23:28:32] <JamieKnight> although, there isent really a poll,
  773. [23:28:46] <JamieKnight> what are you voting against?> thier picture of thier cat?
  774. [23:28:57] <JamieKnight> isent cute enough,
  775. [23:29:16] * JamieKnight widly acknolages, his lion to be cutest cat in the world..... naturally.
  776. [23:30:20] <tantek> vbgunz - you disagree with an opinion, not a person. the difference is important.
  777. [23:30:48] <vbgunz> tantek: , I just read the reason they left out negative values....
  778. [23:30:51] <JamieKnight> hiya tantek
  779. [23:30:57] * anselxyz (n=chatzill@12.22.59.162) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  780. [23:31:15] <tantek> see also: http://gmpg.org/xfn/background#positive
  781. [23:31:30] <vbgunz> yeah I just read that
  782. [23:31:44] <vbgunz> I was reading that page right before I made my post and just read it
  783. [23:32:13] <vbgunz> to me, I could understand it somewhat
  784. [23:34:24] <tantek> consider it a socially engineered microformat
  785. [23:36:29] <vbgunz> I just find it too friendly...
  786. [23:37:20] <kingryan> then research Xhtml Enemies Network
  787. [23:40:18] <vbgunz> kingryan: I don't think I'd like to see it. I guess my point is. What if I strong disagree with someone but not there opinion. OK, they're not a friend exactly but in the world of mf's these links would slip through the cracks... maybe lighter words in place of enemy... I am bad at english but am sure something can pan out to express it lightly or something :)
  788. [23:40:43] * pecus (n=pecus@82.155.49.169) has joined #microformats
  789. [23:40:45] <tantek> if you have met the person you can simply state rel="met"
  790. [23:41:06] <tantek> if you know how to contact them you can simply state rel="contact"
  791. [23:41:14] <tantek> which are both fairly neutral
  792. [23:43:41] <vbgunz> I understand... people don't just disagree with one another and hate one another... if you do the right parsing you can figure out who's a troll that's for sure... they're should be some good reasons for adding some disagreement sugar in there somwhere
  793. [23:44:59] <vbgunz> e.g. if I met someone and saw they had 53 friends and 783 people who strongly disagreed with them, I might be able to avoid problems or make friends with someone in caution...
  794. [23:49:26] <vbgunz> ok, I do have just one question for XFN. when making an XGN link I do not link to the persons homepage *if* it doesn't describe the person and I don't just link to article or some rambling of the person. I instead wish to link directly to there profile if possible, is this correct?
  795. [23:49:28] <kingryan> vbgunz: there's a difference between disagreeing with people and not being friends or not liking them
  796. [23:49:44] <kingryan> vbgunz: sure
  797. [23:50:05] <vbgunz> s/XGN/XFN/g
  798. [23:50:08] <vbgunz> sorry
  799. [23:52:13] <vbgunz> well I just brought it up because it just seems far too friendly. no biggie :)
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