IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-02-16
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [02:50:31] <vbgunz>
quick question. running through examples I notice some divs and spans are used in the examples. My question is, do block-level, inline elements play a major part or is it the class and ID attributes that make it work?
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- [05:37:30] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=13550 * JohnAllsopp * (+194) Upcoming -
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- [05:44:46] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-04-15-Web2Expo]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2007-04-15-Web2Expo * JohnAllsopp * (+1167)
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[[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13551 * ChristopheDucamp * (-45) Microformateers in attendance -
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[[events-fr/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events-fr/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13552 * ChristopheDucamp * (-45) Microformateurs parmi les participants - pb of credit card blocked - removed my participation, (mobiky could pehraps sponsor!)
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- [11:05:31] <mfbot>
[[hresume-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-feedback&diff=0&oldid=13553 * Lylo * (+473)
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[[User:Lylo]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Lylo * Lylo * (+83)
- [11:10:13] <mfbot>
[[User:Lylo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Lylo&diff=0&oldid=13554 * Lylo * (+24)
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- [15:46:13] <tommorris>
Is there any reason why hCalendar has <abbr class="dtstart" title="1998-03-12T08:30:00-05:00"> in one format and <abbr class="dtstamp" title="19980309T231000Z"> in a different one?
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- [16:05:41] <Whiskey_M>
'lo
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- [16:31:58] <mkaply>
tommorris: both of those are acceptable ISO date formats
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- [16:51:51] <tommorris>
Okay, so I presume the people writing the parsers have to interpret both. The microformats folks sure don't mess around with the "humans first, computers second" thing...
- [16:53:09] <Whiskey_M>
the thing is if you're writing a parser and you're doing it the easy way (convert to XML use XPath to cherry pick the nodes), then you will have a converter there
- [16:55:19] <mkaply>
Whiskey_M: actually, parsing the date can be "tricky"
- [16:55:36] <mkaply>
I add the dashes and colons in if necessary and store in one format
- [16:55:44] <mkaply>
But things like google and yahoo calendar take the dates without the dashes
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- [16:56:11] <tommorris>
I've just been writing an XSLT to turn it in to those date formats. It doesn't actually say on the hCalendar page what format the dates are supposed to be in.
- [16:56:50] <tommorris>
Microformats beget macroparsers.
- [16:59:04] <mfbot>
[[resume-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples&diff=0&oldid=13555 * Tantek * (+1142) moved resume style / human format preamble to resume-examples
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- [17:01:34] <mfbot>
[[resume-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=13556 * Tantek * (-761) cleaned up headings, removed urls and explanations from headings, moved resume style discussion to resume examples
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- [17:02:30] <mfbot>
[[resume-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples&diff=0&oldid=13557 * Tantek * (+419) moved "other resume styles" discussion/reference from resume-formats to here
- [17:05:02] <tantek>
mkaply - did you manage to document that on the wiki somewhere (the google/yahoo calendar dependance on dates without dashes)?
- [17:05:23] <mkaply>
tantek: I have lots of things to document.
- [17:06:03] <mkaply>
tantek: Is there going to be a microformats meetup in Austin?
- [17:11:26] <mfbot>
[[hresume-faq]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-faq * Tantek * (+1981) drafted, added first Q&A from [[hresume-feedback]] page.
- [17:12:42] <tantek>
mkaply are you going to SXSW?
- [17:13:20] <mkaply>
tantek: I live in Austin, so I'll be around. I'll ask about IBM paying for me to go to SXSW again
- [17:13:32] <mfbot>
[[hresume-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-feedback&diff=0&oldid=13558 * Tantek * (+109) answered a couple of feedback items, moved a question about HR-XML to FAQ
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- [17:17:57] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13559 * Tantek * (+116) added would like to attend section
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- [17:19:39] <tommorris>
http://www.wadip.org.uk/pages/events.php - now hCalendar'd
- [17:20:43] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13560 * Tantek * (+310) added suggested tags
- [17:22:19] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13561 * Tantek * (+27) added blog posts section
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- [17:22:55] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13562 * MikeKaply * (+40) Would Like to Attend -
- [17:23:26] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13563 * MikeKaply * (-14) Would Like to Attend -
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- [17:23:52] <mfbot>
[[User:MikeKaply]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:MikeKaply * MikeKaply * (+27)
- [17:24:48] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13564 * Tantek * (+4)
- [17:25:19] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13565 * Tantek * (+6)
- [17:25:36] <tantek>
tommorris - well done!
- [17:25:43] <tantek>
now add it to hcalendar-examples-in-wild
- [17:25:53] <tantek>
and add a "Subscribe to Events" link
- [17:26:10] <tommorris>
If you look in the head, there's a GRDDL link too.
- [17:26:32] <tommorris>
I thought about subscribe to events, but I'm omitting it because it would only confuse the users.
- [17:26:44] <tommorris>
Client sez 'no'.
- [17:26:53] <tantek>
definitely add it to http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-examples-in-wild though
- [17:27:30] <tommorris>
I'm doing a talk on microformats and the SemWeb this weekend - I'll add that to the wiki.
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- [17:27:54] <tantek>
I wonder if a <link rel="alternate" type="text/calendar" href="http://feeds.technorati.com/events/www.wadip.org.uk/pages/events.php" /> would be ok though
- [17:28:09] <tommorris>
That would be fine.
- [17:28:25] * tantek just thought of that use of alternate to include autodiscovery of ics
- [17:28:33] <tantek>
on a page with hCalendar
- [17:28:55] * tantek wonders if all pages with hCalendar should consider such an autodiscovery link
- [17:29:12] <tantek>
tommorris, definitely add your talk to the "events" page also
- [17:29:31] <tantek>
perhaps even consider creating a separate page for it as is done for many/most other microformats talks
- [17:29:51] <tommorris>
It's at BarCampLondon2...
- [17:31:44] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13566 * TomMorris * (+131)
- [17:32:45] <tantek>
tommorris - excellent - then perhaps add it to the existing barcamplondon2 event page
- [17:33:04] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2
- [17:33:50] <tommorris>
Someone suggested I call the talk "Why microformats suck" in order to get more people to come along, and then suddenly reveal half way through that I think microformats are great.
- [17:34:57] <kingryan>
tommorris: microformats do suck
- [17:35:07] <kingryan>
but their suckiness makes them actually useful
- [17:35:09] <kingryan>
:D
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- [17:35:50] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13567 * TomMorris * (+154)
- [17:41:54] <tommorris>
tantek: added <link> as suggested
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- [19:36:07] <rabble>
anybody know of a microformat parser in perl?
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- [19:53:36] <mfbot>
[[media-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=13568 * Tantek * (+177) added Zooomr
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- [21:24:31] <vbgunz>
I asked a general question and it went by unanswered. I think I wasn't clear enough. the question is. in some examples, I see DIV and SPAN used either with special classes or ID's. These can be traded out for other block-level and inline elements e.g. P and STRONG, etc? In other words the most important element are the actual attributes of the mf, correct?
- [21:28:19] <bewest>
yes
- [21:28:25] <bewest>
no
- [21:28:28] <bewest>
erm
- [21:28:32] <bewest>
you can use any element
- [21:28:39] <bewest>
the important thing is the presence of the classname
- [21:28:54] <bewest>
that's at vbgunz
- [21:29:28] <bewest>
vbgunz: out of curiosity, have you visited the wiki?
- [21:29:36] <vbgunz>
thanks, just wanted to be sure the idioms didn't require certain elements to be present either.
- [21:29:45] <bewest>
vbgunz: can you describe some places you tried looking for information?
- [21:29:53] <bewest>
right
- [21:31:33] <vbgunz>
I was going through specifications and drafts. I sorted out the elemental mfs, and started working on hCalendar, hCard, etc and I asked because it seems elementals require the a element but but on the bigger mf's it wasn't exactly clear... I could have missed it too :)
- [21:33:18] <vbgunz>
bewest: if you believe I missed some required reading please feel free to point me in the right direction :)
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- [21:48:37] <tantek_>
vbgunz, rather, it sounds like you have some good questions
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- [21:53:36] * tantek notes that http://futureofwebapps.com/schedule.html has added hCalendar
- [21:54:48] <factoryjoe>
note only that
- [21:54:51] <factoryjoe>
but they did it wrong
- [21:55:04] <factoryjoe>
so it's generated a 0k file going through the 'rati converter
- [21:55:07] <factoryjoe>
AND
- [21:55:18] <factoryjoe>
all the abbr title values are a year behind
- [21:55:27] <factoryjoe>
the lesson: hidden metadata sucks!
- [21:56:39] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13569 * Chris Messina * (+216) added FOWA
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- [21:57:34] <veeliam>
Hello, all.
- [21:57:39] <kingryan>
they aren't abbr's, they're span's
- [21:57:42] <factoryjoe>
yo veeliam
- [21:57:46] <factoryjoe>
even worse
- [21:57:49] * kingryan goes to get a rope
- [21:57:54] <factoryjoe>
does that make them not parse?
- [21:58:01] <kingryan>
yes
- [21:58:03] <factoryjoe>
ah ha
- [21:58:04] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [21:58:11] <factoryjoe>
we'll have to ping the peeps in charge
- [21:58:13] <kingryan>
it'd be nice if people tested their stuff
- [21:58:42] <factoryjoe>
no kidding
- [21:58:49] <tantek>
factoryjoe - perhaps ask them to put up a "Subscribe..." link - that will make the consequence of the data much more visible, and thus likely to get it and keep it fixed
- [21:58:58] <factoryjoe>
good call
- [21:59:51] <mkaply>
I just made operator 0.7a available
- [22:00:08] <mkaply>
http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/02/16/operator-07a-is-available/
- [22:00:16] * kingryan goes to click "find updates"
- [22:00:41] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [22:00:48] <factoryjoe>
species?
- [22:00:48] <factoryjoe>
wow
- [22:00:55] <mkaply>
factoryjoe: VERY basic
- [22:01:03] <mkaply>
I've had quite a few people email me with that SPAN/title problem
- [22:01:05] <factoryjoe>
i haven't followed species
- [22:01:07] <mkaply>
they totally miss the ABBR thing
- [22:01:13] <mkaply>
two in the last week.
- [22:02:05] <factoryjoe>
mkaply: i think the version on that operator is wrong
- [22:02:17] <mkaply>
factoryjoe: shouldn't be 0.7a?
- [22:02:23] <factoryjoe>
i get "operator 0.6.2
- [22:02:39] <factoryjoe>
i thought so... but when i clicked to install that's not what it says
- [22:02:41] <factoryjoe>
lemme restart FF
- [22:03:26] <mkaply>
factoryjoe: think I saw that problem on FF as well. After installing, it says "0.6.2" installed, but after restarting, it's correct. Not sure why
- [22:03:51] <vbgunz>
I actually use operator. its pretty good. I'll have to learn more about it though but it seems to work for me. I just haven't got to review or resume yet but the rest seem to work just fine
- [22:04:12] <mkaply>
I need something interesting to do with hReview and hResume.
- [22:04:18] <mkaply>
I need an interesting "action"
- [22:04:22] <vbgunz>
would you say using operator is a good way to test your microformats?
- [22:04:41] <factoryjoe>
mkaply: export linkedin hresume to emurse
- [22:04:41] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [22:04:43] <factoryjoe>
or
- [22:04:46] <kingryan>
vbgunz: it's good, but you should probably test them in several ways
- [22:04:49] <factoryjoe>
print an hresume w/ nice CSS
- [22:05:25] <vbgunz>
kingryan: a validator would be sexy but probably overboard. what would you suggest?
- [22:05:43] <kingryan>
test with operator + x2v
- [22:05:58] <vbgunz>
x2v, I'll search for it
- [22:06:14] <kingryan>
http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/
- [22:06:58] <mkaply>
kingryan: I actually have X2V integration in the new Operator. Unfortunately the Firefox XSLT processor isn't very good, so I've kind of hidden the feature.
- [22:07:00] <mkaply>
It's handy though
- [22:07:06] <mkaply>
For debugging only
- [22:07:29] <vbgunz>
kingryan: thank you!
- [22:09:54] <vbgunz>
operator wasn't in my update list :(
- [22:11:40] <vbgunz>
oh I see. it's in alpha
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