IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-02-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  21. [02:50:31] <vbgunz> quick question. running through examples I notice some divs and spans are used in the examples. My question is, do block-level, inline elements play a major part or is it the class and ID attributes that make it work?
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  44. [05:37:30] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=13550 * JohnAllsopp * (+194) Upcoming -
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  48. [05:44:46] <mfbot> [[events/2007-04-15-Web2Expo]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2007-04-15-Web2Expo * JohnAllsopp * (+1167)
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  102. [10:53:24] <mfbot> [[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13551 * ChristopheDucamp * (-45) Microformateers in attendance -
  103. [10:55:50] <mfbot> [[events-fr/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events-fr/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13552 * ChristopheDucamp * (-45) Microformateurs parmi les participants - pb of credit card blocked - removed my participation, (mobiky could pehraps sponsor!)
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  105. [11:05:31] <mfbot> [[hresume-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-feedback&diff=0&oldid=13553 * Lylo * (+473)
  106. [11:08:17] <mfbot> [[User:Lylo]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Lylo * Lylo * (+83)
  107. [11:10:13] <mfbot> [[User:Lylo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Lylo&diff=0&oldid=13554 * Lylo * (+24)
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  146. [15:46:13] <tommorris> Is there any reason why hCalendar has <abbr class="dtstart" title="1998-03-12T08:30:00-05:00"> in one format and <abbr class="dtstamp" title="19980309T231000Z"> in a different one?
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  149. [16:05:41] <Whiskey_M> 'lo
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  157. [16:31:58] <mkaply> tommorris: both of those are acceptable ISO date formats
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  166. [16:51:51] <tommorris> Okay, so I presume the people writing the parsers have to interpret both. The microformats folks sure don't mess around with the "humans first, computers second" thing...
  167. [16:53:09] <Whiskey_M> the thing is if you're writing a parser and you're doing it the easy way (convert to XML use XPath to cherry pick the nodes), then you will have a converter there
  168. [16:55:19] <mkaply> Whiskey_M: actually, parsing the date can be "tricky"
  169. [16:55:36] <mkaply> I add the dashes and colons in if necessary and store in one format
  170. [16:55:44] <mkaply> But things like google and yahoo calendar take the dates without the dashes
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  172. [16:56:11] <tommorris> I've just been writing an XSLT to turn it in to those date formats. It doesn't actually say on the hCalendar page what format the dates are supposed to be in.
  173. [16:56:50] <tommorris> Microformats beget macroparsers.
  174. [16:59:04] <mfbot> [[resume-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples&diff=0&oldid=13555 * Tantek * (+1142) moved resume style / human format preamble to resume-examples
  175. [17:01:09] * csarven- is now known as csarven
  176. [17:01:34] <mfbot> [[resume-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=13556 * Tantek * (-761) cleaned up headings, removed urls and explanations from headings, moved resume style discussion to resume examples
  177. [17:01:48] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  178. [17:02:30] <mfbot> [[resume-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples&diff=0&oldid=13557 * Tantek * (+419) moved "other resume styles" discussion/reference from resume-formats to here
  179. [17:05:02] <tantek> mkaply - did you manage to document that on the wiki somewhere (the google/yahoo calendar dependance on dates without dashes)?
  180. [17:05:23] <mkaply> tantek: I have lots of things to document.
  181. [17:06:03] <mkaply> tantek: Is there going to be a microformats meetup in Austin?
  182. [17:11:26] <mfbot> [[hresume-faq]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-faq * Tantek * (+1981) drafted, added first Q&A from [[hresume-feedback]] page.
  183. [17:12:42] <tantek> mkaply are you going to SXSW?
  184. [17:13:20] <mkaply> tantek: I live in Austin, so I'll be around. I'll ask about IBM paying for me to go to SXSW again
  185. [17:13:32] <mfbot> [[hresume-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-feedback&diff=0&oldid=13558 * Tantek * (+109) answered a couple of feedback items, moved a question about HR-XML to FAQ
  186. [17:17:22] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-123-225.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  187. [17:17:57] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13559 * Tantek * (+116) added would like to attend section
  188. [17:19:25] * HenrichP (n=Miranda@svs22.informatik.uni-hamburg.de) Quit ("Bye for now ...")
  189. [17:19:39] <tommorris> http://www.wadip.org.uk/pages/events.php - now hCalendar'd
  190. [17:20:43] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13560 * Tantek * (+310) added suggested tags
  191. [17:22:19] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13561 * Tantek * (+27) added blog posts section
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  193. [17:22:55] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13562 * MikeKaply * (+40) Would Like to Attend -
  194. [17:23:26] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13563 * MikeKaply * (-14) Would Like to Attend -
  195. [17:23:41] * danja (n=danja@host93-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  196. [17:23:52] <mfbot> [[User:MikeKaply]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:MikeKaply * MikeKaply * (+27)
  197. [17:24:48] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13564 * Tantek * (+4)
  198. [17:25:19] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13565 * Tantek * (+6)
  199. [17:25:36] <tantek> tommorris - well done!
  200. [17:25:43] <tantek> now add it to hcalendar-examples-in-wild
  201. [17:25:53] <tantek> and add a "Subscribe to Events" link
  202. [17:26:10] <tommorris> If you look in the head, there's a GRDDL link too.
  203. [17:26:32] <tommorris> I thought about subscribe to events, but I'm omitting it because it would only confuse the users.
  204. [17:26:44] <tommorris> Client sez 'no'.
  205. [17:26:53] <tantek> definitely add it to http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-examples-in-wild though
  206. [17:27:30] <tommorris> I'm doing a talk on microformats and the SemWeb this weekend - I'll add that to the wiki.
  207. [17:27:30] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  208. [17:27:31] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  209. [17:27:54] <tantek> I wonder if a <link rel="alternate" type="text/calendar" href="http://feeds.technorati.com/events/www.wadip.org.uk/pages/events.php" /> would be ok though
  210. [17:28:09] <tommorris> That would be fine.
  211. [17:28:25] * tantek just thought of that use of alternate to include autodiscovery of ics
  212. [17:28:33] <tantek> on a page with hCalendar
  213. [17:28:55] * tantek wonders if all pages with hCalendar should consider such an autodiscovery link
  214. [17:29:12] <tantek> tommorris, definitely add your talk to the "events" page also
  215. [17:29:31] <tantek> perhaps even consider creating a separate page for it as is done for many/most other microformats talks
  216. [17:29:51] <tommorris> It's at BarCampLondon2...
  217. [17:31:44] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13566 * TomMorris * (+131)
  218. [17:32:45] <tantek> tommorris - excellent - then perhaps add it to the existing barcamplondon2 event page
  219. [17:33:04] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2
  220. [17:33:50] <tommorris> Someone suggested I call the talk "Why microformats suck" in order to get more people to come along, and then suddenly reveal half way through that I think microformats are great.
  221. [17:34:57] <kingryan> tommorris: microformats do suck
  222. [17:35:07] <kingryan> but their suckiness makes them actually useful
  223. [17:35:09] <kingryan> :D
  224. [17:35:48] * nfolson (n=nfolson@CPE-76-177-177-204.natsoe.res.rr.com) Quit ()
  225. [17:35:50] <mfbot> [[events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-17-barcamplondon2&diff=0&oldid=13567 * TomMorris * (+154)
  226. [17:41:54] <tommorris> tantek: added <link> as suggested
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  253. [19:36:07] <rabble> anybody know of a microformat parser in perl?
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  257. [19:53:36] <mfbot> [[media-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=13568 * Tantek * (+177) added Zooomr
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  284. [21:24:31] <vbgunz> I asked a general question and it went by unanswered. I think I wasn't clear enough. the question is. in some examples, I see DIV and SPAN used either with special classes or ID's. These can be traded out for other block-level and inline elements e.g. P and STRONG, etc? In other words the most important element are the actual attributes of the mf, correct?
  285. [21:28:19] <bewest> yes
  286. [21:28:25] <bewest> no
  287. [21:28:28] <bewest> erm
  288. [21:28:32] <bewest> you can use any element
  289. [21:28:39] <bewest> the important thing is the presence of the classname
  290. [21:28:54] <bewest> that's at vbgunz
  291. [21:29:28] <bewest> vbgunz: out of curiosity, have you visited the wiki?
  292. [21:29:36] <vbgunz> thanks, just wanted to be sure the idioms didn't require certain elements to be present either.
  293. [21:29:45] <bewest> vbgunz: can you describe some places you tried looking for information?
  294. [21:29:53] <bewest> right
  295. [21:31:33] <vbgunz> I was going through specifications and drafts. I sorted out the elemental mfs, and started working on hCalendar, hCard, etc and I asked because it seems elementals require the a element but but on the bigger mf's it wasn't exactly clear... I could have missed it too :)
  296. [21:33:18] <vbgunz> bewest: if you believe I missed some required reading please feel free to point me in the right direction :)
  297. [21:44:09] * Prometheus^^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  298. [21:48:37] <tantek_> vbgunz, rather, it sounds like you have some good questions
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  305. [21:53:36] * tantek notes that http://futureofwebapps.com/schedule.html has added hCalendar
  306. [21:54:48] <factoryjoe> note only that
  307. [21:54:51] <factoryjoe> but they did it wrong
  308. [21:55:04] <factoryjoe> so it's generated a 0k file going through the 'rati converter
  309. [21:55:07] <factoryjoe> AND
  310. [21:55:18] <factoryjoe> all the abbr title values are a year behind
  311. [21:55:27] <factoryjoe> the lesson: hidden metadata sucks!
  312. [21:56:39] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13569 * Chris Messina * (+216) added FOWA
  313. [21:57:03] * veeliam (n=veeliam@207.111.252.10) has joined #microformats
  314. [21:57:34] <veeliam> Hello, all.
  315. [21:57:39] <kingryan> they aren't abbr's, they're span's
  316. [21:57:42] <factoryjoe> yo veeliam
  317. [21:57:46] <factoryjoe> even worse
  318. [21:57:49] * kingryan goes to get a rope
  319. [21:57:54] <factoryjoe> does that make them not parse?
  320. [21:58:01] <kingryan> yes
  321. [21:58:03] <factoryjoe> ah ha
  322. [21:58:04] <factoryjoe> ok
  323. [21:58:11] <factoryjoe> we'll have to ping the peeps in charge
  324. [21:58:13] <kingryan> it'd be nice if people tested their stuff
  325. [21:58:42] <factoryjoe> no kidding
  326. [21:58:49] <tantek> factoryjoe - perhaps ask them to put up a "Subscribe..." link - that will make the consequence of the data much more visible, and thus likely to get it and keep it fixed
  327. [21:58:58] <factoryjoe> good call
  328. [21:59:51] <mkaply> I just made operator 0.7a available
  329. [22:00:08] <mkaply> http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/02/16/operator-07a-is-available/
  330. [22:00:16] * kingryan goes to click "find updates"
  331. [22:00:41] <factoryjoe> ;)
  332. [22:00:48] <factoryjoe> species?
  333. [22:00:48] <factoryjoe> wow
  334. [22:00:55] <mkaply> factoryjoe: VERY basic
  335. [22:01:03] <mkaply> I've had quite a few people email me with that SPAN/title problem
  336. [22:01:05] <factoryjoe> i haven't followed species
  337. [22:01:07] <mkaply> they totally miss the ABBR thing
  338. [22:01:13] <mkaply> two in the last week.
  339. [22:02:05] <factoryjoe> mkaply: i think the version on that operator is wrong
  340. [22:02:17] <mkaply> factoryjoe: shouldn't be 0.7a?
  341. [22:02:23] <factoryjoe> i get "operator 0.6.2
  342. [22:02:39] <factoryjoe> i thought so... but when i clicked to install that's not what it says
  343. [22:02:41] <factoryjoe> lemme restart FF
  344. [22:03:26] <mkaply> factoryjoe: think I saw that problem on FF as well. After installing, it says "0.6.2" installed, but after restarting, it's correct. Not sure why
  345. [22:03:51] <vbgunz> I actually use operator. its pretty good. I'll have to learn more about it though but it seems to work for me. I just haven't got to review or resume yet but the rest seem to work just fine
  346. [22:04:12] <mkaply> I need something interesting to do with hReview and hResume.
  347. [22:04:18] <mkaply> I need an interesting "action"
  348. [22:04:22] <vbgunz> would you say using operator is a good way to test your microformats?
  349. [22:04:41] <factoryjoe> mkaply: export linkedin hresume to emurse
  350. [22:04:41] <factoryjoe> ;)
  351. [22:04:43] <factoryjoe> or
  352. [22:04:46] <kingryan> vbgunz: it's good, but you should probably test them in several ways
  353. [22:04:49] <factoryjoe> print an hresume w/ nice CSS
  354. [22:05:25] <vbgunz> kingryan: a validator would be sexy but probably overboard. what would you suggest?
  355. [22:05:43] <kingryan> test with operator + x2v
  356. [22:05:58] <vbgunz> x2v, I'll search for it
  357. [22:06:14] <kingryan> http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/
  358. [22:06:58] <mkaply> kingryan: I actually have X2V integration in the new Operator. Unfortunately the Firefox XSLT processor isn't very good, so I've kind of hidden the feature.
  359. [22:07:00] <mkaply> It's handy though
  360. [22:07:06] <mkaply> For debugging only
  361. [22:07:29] <vbgunz> kingryan: thank you!
  362. [22:09:54] <vbgunz> operator wasn't in my update list :(
  363. [22:11:40] <vbgunz> oh I see. it's in alpha

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