IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-02-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:13:58] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  2. [00:13:59] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  3. [00:14:01] <BenWard> @tommorris: Did you get my email Re: GetSemantics. Need a fresh invite for my gmail.com email account please!
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  8. [00:25:45] <jibot> redmonk is Steve Ivy, http://redmonk.net and is linklogging at http://deliciouslymeta.com
  9. [00:29:28] <BenWard> Does anyone know if Brian Suda put the ‘XHTML Enemies Network’ from BarCampLondon2 live anywhere?
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  11. [00:40:29] <vbgunz> quick question. when dealing with hCards. I can if I wish combine hCard markup with other elemental microformats, correct? e.g. class="category tag"
  12. [00:40:40] * Farrokh (n=farrokh@unaffiliated/farrokh) has joined #microformats
  13. [00:40:58] <Ashe``> yes you can
  14. [00:41:00] <vbgunz> BenWard: there really is an enemy network?
  15. [00:41:14] <vbgunz> Ashe``: thanks
  16. [00:41:34] <Ashe``> you need to be careful though, as some properties require nesting
  17. [00:41:53] <vbgunz> Ashe``: I believe I am aware, e.g. geo, adr, correct?
  18. [00:42:01] <Ashe``> yep
  19. [00:42:15] <vbgunz> :)
  20. [00:42:44] <Ashe``> or for the hcard, you cant use it like
  21. [00:42:55] <BenWard> Yes. It's not a microformat, of course, but it exists. Jeremy Keith and Brian drew it up at 4am at BarCamp. rel="nuisance met fury", rel="enemy met nemesis"
  22. [00:42:56] <Ashe``> <div class="vcard fn">Name</div>
  23. [00:44:03] <vbgunz> BenWard: wow
  24. [00:44:26] <BenWard> Brian was writing it up in an ‘XFN style’ but I've absolutely no idea where he put it…
  25. [00:44:44] <vbgunz> Ashe``: I know a little about fn and how it can combine to reduce repeating yourself or to make minimal cards, I believe
  26. [00:44:52] <Ashe``> perfect
  27. [00:45:21] <BenWard> Clearly it's not been mentioned in here yet, though so I shall stop spoiling the comical details until he does come out with a URL.
  28. [00:45:48] <vbgunz> I came in here a couple days asking about why XFN had no indication of enemies or those with whom you strongly disagree with as people and I got into a microargument about it somewhat... heh
  29. [00:46:52] <vbgunz> Anyhow, I think it is a good move. This way, you can most likely when you meet someone new, check there backgrounds against your trusted friends and maybe find out if they're a troll, a pain in the ass, etc
  30. [00:47:13] <vbgunz> I can see it come in useful, as I wouldn't be a friend if I didn't warn you about the bad guy ;)
  31. [00:47:14] <BenWard> @vbgunz — it's a good demonstration of how you can still create semantic class names (or rel names) without having to create a microformat.
  32. [00:47:42] <BenWard> Which is something people seem to have trouble ‘getting’
  33. [00:48:11] <Ashe``> Hm
  34. [00:48:16] <BenWard> There's a false impression that because microformats exist now, class names and rel values all have to come through these walls. And that's just not true.
  35. [00:48:18] <Ashe``> I have a problem with that too
  36. [00:48:33] <Ashe``> well of course not
  37. [00:48:41] <BenWard> ‘come through these walls’. That's the wrong phrase for sure.
  38. [00:48:48] <vbgunz> BenWard: I am afraid I did not understand your last statement towards me, do you wish to be my enemy :)
  39. [00:48:58] <vbgunz> heh, I didn't get it though :O
  40. [00:49:14] <Ashe``> but just because i say we should rel="media-attachment" for images now that doesn't make it semantic
  41. [00:49:33] <Ashe``> semantics require a descriptor to be imbued with meaning
  42. [00:49:50] <Ashe``> and if only one person defines the meaning, that doesnt make it semantic
  43. [00:50:04] * vbgunz semantic-k student
  44. [00:50:25] * Ashe`` semantics researcher
  45. [00:50:55] * vbgunz about to semantically use the rest room
  46. [00:51:03] <Ashe``> :>
  47. [00:51:36] * DanWrong (n=DanWrong@87.113.6.165.bbplus.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #microformats
  48. [00:52:42] <BenWard> Oh I'm not meaning to be a rel="nuisance" when I say ‘not getting it’, I just mean that's a misconception about HTML semantics and microformats that is clearly frustrating people when the response comes back as ‘follow the process’. And that's what microformats are: The process. There's nothing that says we're the only authority on defining these things, we just have one particular way of producing class names that has been very effective so
  49. [00:53:09] * DanWrong (n=DanWrong@87.113.6.165.bbplus.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  50. [00:53:28] <Ashe``> yes but this being effective defines the meaning... which is what i said
  51. [00:53:41] <Ashe``> rel="nuisance" doesn't have ANY semantic meaning now
  52. [00:55:37] <Ashe``> it gets a semantic meaning though if more people pick it up
  53. [00:58:09] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  54. [01:01:06] <vbgunz> I was just about to semantically whip my little boys ass... I walked in on him and he was covered in ink stripes from head to toe... wow, can't leave your boys alone for two minutes :(
  55. [01:01:34] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://gmachina.com - gaming feeds in bulk")
  56. [01:01:40] <Ashe``> you mean the whipping will be imbued with semantic meaning?
  57. [01:01:40] * Farrokh (n=farrokh@unaffiliated/farrokh) Quit ("Leaving")
  58. [01:01:44] <Ashe``> that's nice!
  59. [01:02:44] <BenWard> People can and absolutely should club together to work on interoperable mark-up where it's beneficial, whether their aims and scenario fit the microformats process or not. If it's useful to them and they can use it, then it's going to be worth it. If that use extends to other parties then it will gain traction and as you say, the semantic value will be established.
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  62. [01:05:57] <Ashe> bah
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  75. [02:50:41] <jammie_> hiya,
  76. [02:50:50] * jammie_ is now known as JamieKnight
  77. [03:08:54] <mfbot> [[introduction-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction-ja&diff=0&oldid=13613 * KoichiWada * (+250) 'Microformatsとは?'の翻訳
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  82. [03:53:12] <mfbot> [[hcard-ja]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-ja * KoichiWada * (+18325) hCard説明の翻訳
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  84. [04:01:28] <mfbot> [[Main Page-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-ja&diff=0&oldid=13614 * KoichiWada * (+3) hCardリンク->hcard-ja
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  91. [04:55:46] <mfbot> [[buttons]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=buttons&diff=0&oldid=13615 * Kwilson * (+107) Added logo in PNG format.
  92. [04:57:12] <mfbot> [[buttons]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=buttons&diff=0&oldid=13616 * Kwilson * (+77) Added request to not link to image on my server.
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  141. [07:13:53] <tommorris> tell BenWard sorry about not getting back to your email quickly - I just fell asleep - trying to catch up with sleep from BarCamp
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  156. [09:31:42] <mfbot> [[hcard-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-ja&diff=0&oldid=13617 * KoichiWada * (+1233) 4. Format以下一部翻訳
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  159. [09:51:24] <McNulty> When encoding UK phone numbers, in an hCard, what is the best practice for the international dialling code?
  160. [09:52:31] <McNulty> +44 (0) 20 etc? or +44 20 ?
  161. [09:52:41] <tommorris> See http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2006-10-29
  162. [09:52:50] <tommorris> I'd omit the zero.
  163. [09:52:54] <tommorris> It only confuses non-Brits
  164. [09:52:56] <McNulty> Is there a way I can remove the (0) from the number using 'value' ?
  165. [09:53:39] <tommorris> Most British people can understand that if they see +44207... that it means (020) 7...
  166. [09:53:44] <McNulty> m, true
  167. [09:53:50] <McNulty> fair enough
  168. [09:54:12] <tommorris> And when it gets transmitted to their phone via Tails or Outlook or whatever, their phone will dial it properly
  169. [09:54:42] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) has joined #microformats
  170. [09:54:51] <tommorris> That said, it would be interesting to test Tails Export, Operator etc. to see if when faced with a +44(0)207 number they try to transmit the (0) to the phone, and whether the phone messes that up.
  171. [09:57:31] <McNulty> i've had that issue with mobiles
  172. [09:57:42] <McNulty> IF you import a card with the 0 in it'll diall it
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  174. [10:00:01] <tommorris> Perhaps what we need is something like this:
  175. [10:01:10] <tommorris> <span class="tel"><span class="type">home</span> (<span class="type">intl</span>): <span class="value">+44207...</span></span>
  176. [10:01:28] <tommorris> swith 'intl' for 'local' when the dialing code is different
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  178. [10:06:19] <tommorris> I guess that the hCard specification doesn't really answer it - which means you just have to make a judgement call - and then wait for a few others to wander down that path...
  179. [10:07:07] <tommorris> Grr. XOXO is an annoying name to Google.
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  192. [11:27:19] <mfbot> [[currency-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples&diff=0&oldid=13618 * AndyMabbett * (+228) Google code - classes
  193. [11:28:10] <mfbot> [[currency-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples&diff=0&oldid=13619 * AndyMabbett * (+38) Goolge code - tweak
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  202. [12:17:52] <mfbot> [[video-metadata-model]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=video-metadata-model&diff=0&oldid=13620 * ChrisNewell * (+498)
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  217. [14:15:22] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring&diff=0&oldid=13621 * Tantek * (+975) added note to create Add to Address Book link.
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  232. [15:29:37] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13622 * Tantek * (+291) updated time of panel, noted short description
  233. [15:40:10] * proloko (n=proloko@yarpen.mac.edu.pl) Quit (":: ( www.proloko.fe.pl :: )")
  234. [15:51:06] <mfbot> [[product-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=product-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13623 * SMulcahy * (+250) Thoughts on publicising and encouraging adoption
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  239. [16:10:44] * mkaply laughs at Roger Costello's operator demo that conveniently managed to never actually mention Operator :)
  240. [16:11:03] <briansuda> link?
  241. [16:11:17] <mkaply> briansuda: first link on planetmicroformats
  242. [16:11:19] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  243. [16:12:08] <briansuda> i did see that one! it looks like and older version too
  244. [16:12:15] <mkaply> briansuda: yeah.
  245. [16:12:20] * daggi (n=chrisada@82-45-160-216.cable.ubr05.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ()
  246. [16:12:25] <mkaply> The new one does geos much better
  247. [16:12:32] <mkaply> I got hAtom working yesterday as well
  248. [16:12:50] <briansuda> just email him, i'm sure he'd update the images and add a link at the end
  249. [16:12:56] * daggi (n=chrisada@82-45-160-216.cable.ubr05.hari.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #microformats
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  259. [16:43:19] <mfbot> [[media-info-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=13624 * ChrisNewell * (+930)
  260. [16:48:39] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=13625 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1125) synchro
  261. [16:49:15] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=13626 * ChristopheDucamp * (-2)
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  264. [16:59:40] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13627 * ChrisHunt * (+161) New Examples -
  265. [17:06:21] <mfbot> [[events-fr/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events-fr/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=13628 * ChristopheDucamp * (+905) sync'd
  266. [17:07:42] * leahculver (n=leahculv@netblock-68-183-25-15.dslextreme.com) has joined #microformats
  267. [17:11:13] * HenrichP (n=Miranda@svs22.informatik.uni-hamburg.de) Quit ("Bye for now ...")
  268. [17:11:42] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=13629 * ChristopheDucamp * (+863)
  269. [17:14:12] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=13630 * ChristopheDucamp * (+125) Exemples avec quelques problèmes -
  270. [17:14:54] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) has joined #microformats
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  273. [17:21:28] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13631 * ChristopheDucamp * (-268) Examples with some problems - corrected
  274. [17:21:49] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13632 * ChristopheDucamp * (+104) New Examples - futureofwebapps
  275. [17:22:49] * davecardwell (n=davecard@212.241.231.39) has joined #microformats
  276. [17:23:41] <Farrokh> 'ello everyone.
  277. [17:24:35] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=13633 * ChristopheDucamp * (-159) sync'd
  278. [17:25:50] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13634 * AaronCole * (+149)
  279. [17:26:26] * leahculver (n=leahculv@netblock-68-183-25-15.dslextreme.com) Quit ()
  280. [17:27:16] <mfbot> [[buttons-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=buttons-fr&diff=0&oldid=13635 * ChristopheDucamp * (+206) Requêtes -
  281. [17:30:47] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=13636 * ChristopheDucamp * (+171) Nouveaux exemples -
  282. [17:32:45] * bear_afk is now known as bear
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  292. [18:22:03] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit ("goodbye, farewell, auf Wiedersehen")
  293. [18:29:28] <mfbot> [[presentations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=13637 * Tantek * (+64) noted incorrect date
  294. [18:30:10] <mfbot> [[hcard-complete-implementation]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-complete-implementation&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+1395) hcard-complete-implementation moved to hcard-complete-example
  295. [18:31:34] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
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  297. [18:33:36] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-0bcea4e6f37a68fa) has joined #microformats
  298. [18:33:40] <tommorris> I've just put up the GetSemantic homepage - getsemantic.com
  299. [18:36:21] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  300. [18:38:32] * charles_r_ (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ("Bye!")
  301. [18:38:45] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13638 * JosephBergantine * (+163) New Examples -
  302. [18:43:11] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=13639 * JosephBergantine * (+36) New Examples -
  303. [18:43:31] * tom-morris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
  304. [18:43:58] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  305. [18:43:58] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
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  308. [18:49:11] <mfbot> [[hresume-faq-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume-faq-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+2450)
  309. [18:50:02] <mfbot> [[hresume-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=13640 * ChristopheDucamp * (+6)
  310. [18:50:28] <mfbot> [[resume-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/resume-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+24)
  311. [18:50:39] <mfbot> [[criticism]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=criticism&diff=0&oldid=13641 * Tantek * (+333) summarized recent criticism
  312. [18:51:18] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
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  314. [19:01:14] <mfbot> [[resume-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=13642 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1973)
  315. [19:02:23] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) Quit ("Leaving")
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  317. [19:03:10] <mfbot> [[resume-examples-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples-fr&diff=0&oldid=13643 * ChristopheDucamp * (+28)
  318. [19:03:11] * AGraf`` (n=Ashe@M538P009.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  319. [19:04:13] * kingryan can't believe the "authoritative hcards" discussion isn't over
  320. [19:06:39] * Kilianvalkhof (i=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  321. [19:09:21] <bewest> kingryan: some people are more vocal than others
  322. [19:09:47] <kingryan> bewest: yeah, it feels to me like we mostly have consensus, except for a few outspoken people
  323. [19:10:43] <bewest> a lot of it seems to be on the verge of going meta though
  324. [19:10:49] <kingryan> yeah
  325. [19:10:58] <kingryan> some of it already went ad hominem
  326. [19:11:02] <bewest> yes
  327. [19:11:15] <Kilianvalkhof> anyone have any experience with using the newsgroup with thunderbird?
  328. [19:11:36] <Kilianvalkhof> i set it to send mime, but i can't reply. the button just doesnt work
  329. [19:13:29] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  331. [19:13:47] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  332. [19:16:50] <mfbot> [[resume-formats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=13644 * ChristopheDucamp * (+430)
  333. [19:17:45] * danja_ (n=danja@host212-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
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  335. [19:19:01] <mfbot> [[resume-formats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=13645 * ChristopheDucamp * (-601) sync'd
  336. [19:19:17] <mfbot> [[resume-formats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=13646 * ChristopheDucamp * (-38) Existing XML resume formats -
  337. [19:20:08] <mfbot> [[resume-formats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=13647 * ChristopheDucamp * (-33) Formats de CV existant en XML -
  338. [19:20:38] * AlexanderGraf (n=Ashe@M522P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  339. [19:20:44] <mfbot> [[resume-formats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats-fr&diff=0&oldid=13648 * ChristopheDucamp * (-62) Formats de CV -
  340. [19:26:42] <bewest> kingryan: nice post. it can be difficult to stay level headed
  341. [19:27:00] <kingryan> yeah, I've had to learn that the hard way :D
  342. [19:27:13] <kingryan> the best thing to do is take a few days off :D
  343. [19:28:17] <bewest> hmmm
  344. [19:28:38] <bewest> so... because XFN has the word "friends" in the name, it is somehow unsuitable for professional relationships?
  345. [19:29:00] <kingryan> I guess
  346. [19:29:08] <bewest> I don't understand that
  347. [19:29:31] <kingryan> oh, well, I think it's fine for professional relationships
  348. [19:29:40] <kingryan> it just seems that people get hung up on the name like that
  349. [19:29:49] <mkaply> spec XWN - manager, employee, weird that is never in his office, clown
  350. [19:31:15] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) has joined #microformats
  351. [19:31:22] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  352. [19:31:46] <bewest> does XFN have a normative section?
  353. [19:31:58] <bewest> the homepage simply says it's a way to represent human relationships
  354. [19:32:07] <bewest> there's no scope around relationship segments
  355. [19:32:37] <kingryan> I'm not sure what you're asking
  356. [19:33:09] <bewest> just trying to understand the hangup some people have over XFN's apropriateness for certain kinds of relationships
  357. [19:33:18] <bewest> thinking out loud
  358. [19:33:20] <bewest> via irc
  359. [19:33:27] <kingryan> gotcha
  360. [19:33:36] <kingryan> I think it's just the name
  361. [19:33:52] <kingryan> or maybe also that it's easier to make new things than iterate on existing things
  362. [19:34:49] <bewest> the claim is that "Friends" would "most likely hold people back in adoption ... to define those relationships"
  363. [19:34:58] <bewest> is there anything to that?
  364. [19:35:28] <kingryan> mkaply: I don't get what "debug mode" in operator does
  365. [19:35:38] * aajhiggs (n=aajhiggs@82-37-201-227.cable.ubr05.dudl.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  366. [19:35:58] <mkaply> kingryan: It causes microformats with errors to be displayed in the menus. Otherwise I don't display them at all.
  367. [19:36:07] <kingryan> ah, gotcha
  368. [19:36:13] <mkaply> And now it actually adds the debug menu
  369. [19:36:22] <kingryan> in 0.7?
  370. [19:36:26] <mkaply> kingryan: I'll give you a good test
  371. [19:36:55] <woodss> <1> please tell me if there's any way to check if a table exist in mysql database
  372. [19:36:55] <woodss> <2> if (mysql_query('DROP TABLE table_name')) echo "table existed";
  373. [19:36:57] <woodss> he he he
  374. [19:37:03] <mkaply> http://danieljohn.livejournal.com/58674.html
  375. [19:37:08] <kingryan> woodss: wrong channel
  376. [19:37:09] <mkaply> Do debug on or off there
  377. [19:37:22] <woodss> say what now?
  378. [19:37:38] <mkaply> kingryan: yeah. for 0.7 I revamped debug mode. It's much cooler now. If you are in microformats mode, you get a debug menuitem that displays all the information in a tabbed dialog. very handy
  379. [19:37:52] <kingryan> this isn't exactly the right place to be asking questions about mysql
  380. [19:38:08] <kingryan> cool, I think I"m still on 0.6
  381. [19:38:09] <mkaply> it can even load briansuda's transforms behind the scenes (although they don't work well with Firefox transformiix)
  382. [19:38:25] <mkaply> kingryan: grab 0.7a - it certainly shouldn't regress anything. At least not that I could find.
  383. [19:38:32] <kingryan> k
  384. [19:38:32] <mkaply> I haven't put it on addons, it's just on my webpage
  385. [19:38:44] <kingryan> operator's all javascript, right?
  386. [19:39:09] <mkaply> kingryan: yep.
  387. [19:39:30] <mkaply> I'm hoping to have the source code somewhere soon. Really.
  388. [19:39:54] <kingryan> you can use http://hg.microformats.org/ if you wish
  389. [19:40:33] <mkaply> kingryan: it's legal stuff right now. Two things in the works - 1. I can contribute it to Mozilla freely because my lawyers are OK with that (I'm having trouble with their SVN repository)
  390. [19:40:45] <mkaply> 2. Starting a ufJS project on sourceforge to hold all the code.
  391. [19:42:20] <kingryan> cool
  392. [19:44:11] * Kilianvalkhof (i=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  393. [19:48:31] <aajhiggs> can anybody help me with this question - ive marked up my blog biog with an hcard, but am unsure if it is 'valid'. I've used a [p class='n'] then with broken parts of the contact details inside [family-name, given-name]. Tails and Operator don't like it. The code is here: http://andyhiggs.co.uk/blog/about/ - any views?
  394. [19:49:12] <kingryan> you need an fn
  395. [19:50:18] <aajhiggs> ok - i assumed you didn't because the component parts of n would constitute that. how would i place the fn in relation to what I have now? replace the n?
  396. [19:53:04] <kingryan> what do you want your FN (formatted name) to be?
  397. [19:54:33] <aajhiggs> it would be Andy Higgs, however I was attempting to reduce duplicating it by picking the two words seperetely from the text already there.
  398. [19:55:35] <kingryan> it'd be tough to do pick the current words out, because it would require some unbalanced markup
  399. [19:55:52] <kingryan> or value-excerpting, which would break the other elemetns
  400. [19:55:56] <mkaply> kingryan: You could use value tags
  401. [19:56:51] <kingryan> mkaply: actually, you're right. I was thinking that'd break the overlapping N, but N is complex so it should be using value-excerpting anyway
  402. [19:57:27] <aajhiggs> please could you elaborate, I'm not sure what value tags refers to.
  403. [19:57:36] <mkaply> aajhiggs. Hold on. I'll show you
  404. [19:57:38] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) has joined #microformats
  405. [19:57:48] <aajhiggs> thanks mkaply:
  406. [19:57:52] <kingryan> <p class="n"><span class="fn">I&#8217;m <span class="given-name value">Andy</span>, Igby, Iggy, <abbr title="Ig, Iggy, Igby, Igtastic, Igtastical, Ignacious, Igwood, Igglesticks, Ignacious, Iggleswick, Igneous Rock, Ignoramous, Higgle-Diggle, Iguana, Igtrain, Andrew, Andy, AJ, Higgy, Higgsy, Higgs, Higgsworthy, Hig-man, Higo etc etc">Ig</abbr> or simply <span class="family-name value">Higgs</span> </span
  407. [19:57:55] <kingryan> try that
  408. [19:58:07] <mkaply> Go to page 13 here
  409. [19:58:08] <mkaply> http://www.xfront.com/microformats/hCard.html
  410. [19:58:08] <kingryan> see what x2v and operator give you for those
  411. [19:58:09] <mkaply> for more info
  412. [19:59:03] <mkaply> kingryan: can't he put fn and n on the same class in that case?
  413. [19:59:11] <aajhiggs> ok, just checking those out
  414. [20:01:44] <kingryan> I guess he could
  415. [20:01:46] <kingryan> that'd be simpler
  416. [20:01:54] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  417. [20:02:49] <aajhiggs> lumping fn and n together didnt work, doing as ryan said did work, but tails picks up the whole FN tag, so my displayed name in tails/operator is 'Andy, Igby, Iggy, Ig or simply Higgs'
  418. [20:03:05] <kingryan> what's x2v do?
  419. [20:03:09] <kingryan> I think tails is wrong here
  420. [20:03:16] <aajhiggs> although that sounds like an intersting set of middle names, id rather lose them
  421. [20:03:22] <aajhiggs> ill check
  422. [20:05:33] <aajhiggs> is this what you wanted from X2V?...
  423. [20:05:34] <aajhiggs> BEGIN:VCARD
  424. [20:05:35] <aajhiggs> PRODID:-//suda.co.uk//X2V 0.10 (BETA)//EN
  425. [20:05:35] <aajhiggs> SOURCE:http://andyhiggs.co.uk/blog/about/
  426. [20:05:35] <aajhiggs> NAME:Just Beyond The Bridge: About
  427. [20:05:35] <aajhiggs> VERSION:3.0
  428. [20:05:36] <aajhiggs> N;LANGUAGE=en-GB;CHARSET=utf-8:Higgs;Andy;;;
  429. [20:05:40] <aajhiggs> FN;LANGUAGE=en-GB;CHARSET=utf-8:Andy\, Igby\, Iggy\, Ig or simply Higgs
  430. [20:05:42] <aajhiggs> URL:http://andyhiggs.co.uk
  431. [20:05:44] <aajhiggs> ADR;LANGUAGE=en-GB;CHARSET=utf-8:;;;Stourbridge;West Midlands;;England
  432. [20:05:46] <aajhiggs> PHOTO;VALUE=uri:http://andyhiggs.co.uk/blog/images/254.jpg
  433. [20:05:48] <aajhiggs> END:VCARD
  434. [20:05:54] <aajhiggs> whoops, sorry
  435. [20:06:03] <kingryan> hmm, looks like x2v misses too
  436. [20:06:38] <kingryan> it looks like x2v doesn't do value-excerpting on FN
  437. [20:07:01] <kingryan> oh wait
  438. [20:07:10] <kingryan> aajhiggs: you have to add the 'value' classnames too
  439. [20:08:17] <aajhiggs> how? like 'given-name value'?
  440. [20:08:27] <kingryan> yes
  441. [20:10:22] <kingryan> lunchtime brb
  442. [20:12:05] <aajhiggs> kingryan: , mkaply: looks like X2V likes that, but Tails still doesn't (it extracts the entire fn tag rather than the components). Thanks very much for you help... I will assume that is just a bug in Tails for the moment.
  443. [20:12:42] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-4a2c9eabb0bd7909) has joined #microformats
  444. [20:18:16] * iwaim_ (i=iwai@gateway.alib.jp) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  445. [20:18:19] * briansuda (n=briansud@dsl-219-147.hive.is) has joined #microformats
  446. [20:18:19] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  447. [20:22:39] <tom-morris> KevinMarks (and others): getsemantic.com is now live. You might want to take a look
  448. [20:23:49] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  449. [20:30:04] * jcw9 (n=jonathan@WILLIAMSJ01.ADMIN.ED.NYU.EDU) has joined #microformats
  450. [20:30:24] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  451. [20:31:03] <mkaply> aajhiggs: does it work in operator:
  452. [20:31:53] * iwaim_ (i=iwai@gateway.alib.jp) has joined #microformats
  453. [20:32:06] <aajhiggs> mkaply: to an extent... for some reason it doesn't render a gap between the words. as 'AndyHiggs'
  454. [20:32:32] <mkaply> aajhiggs: yeah. That's because the value tags are supposed to be taken exactly. Although does X2V render the space?
  455. [20:32:39] <mkaply> at least that's what I Thought...
  456. [20:33:07] * briansuda (n=briansud@dsl-219-147.hive.is) Quit ()
  457. [20:34:14] <aajhiggs> no it doesn't, so they both read 'correctly i suppose. can you suggest a way around that?
  458. [20:34:31] <aajhiggs> so the space appears
  459. [20:34:36] * mkaply is looking
  460. [20:35:07] <mkaply> or simply<SPAN class="family-name value"> Higgs</SPAN>
  461. [20:35:10] <mkaply> Move the space inside
  462. [20:35:19] <aajhiggs> d'oh
  463. [20:35:19] <mkaply> it won't affect family-name - the space will get stripped there
  464. [20:35:45] <aajhiggs> that does sort of seem sensible ;)
  465. [20:35:58] <mkaply> also, if those really are all nicknames
  466. [20:35:58] <mkaply> <ABBR title="Ig, Iggy, Igby, Igtastic, Igtastical, Ignacious, Igwood, Igglesticks, Ignacious, Iggleswick, Igneous Rock, Ignoramous, Higgle-Diggle, Iguana, Igtrain, Andrew, Andy, AJ, Higgy, Higgsy, Higgs, Higgsworthy, Hig-man, Higo etc etc">Ig</ABBR>
  467. [20:36:37] <mkaply> actually, you can't do that without hiding them
  468. [20:36:37] <mkaply> never mind
  469. [20:36:52] <mkaply> But you could make the first Igby a nickname
  470. [20:37:02] <mkaply> <span class="nickname">Igby</span>
  471. [20:37:11] * briansuda (n=briansud@dsl-219-147.hive.is) has joined #microformats
  472. [20:37:11] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  473. [20:39:08] <aajhiggs> mkaply: yes, i had wondered. I'm unsure if I want to put my nicknames in my vcard though. they mean so many things to so many people that it doesn't really seem a good idea. i'm not sure it would bring any benefit in the end.
  474. [20:39:51] <aajhiggs> (that solved the space problem btw - cheers)
  475. [20:40:24] * briansuda (n=briansud@dsl-219-147.hive.is) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
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  478. [20:40:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
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  483. [20:52:15] * jcw9 (n=jonathan@WILLIAMSJ01.ADMIN.ED.NYU.EDU) Quit ("Leaving")
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  489. [21:24:12] <mfbot> [[rest/rails]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/rails&diff=0&oldid=13649 * DrErnie * (+189) obsolete
  490. [21:24:43] <mfbot> [[rest/rails]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/rails&diff=0&oldid=13650 * DrErnie * (+28) header
  491. [21:24:49] * ajturner (n=irc@d14-69-228-190.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit ()
  492. [21:25:43] <mfbot> [[rest/rails]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/rails&diff=0&oldid=13651 * DrErnie * (+53)
  493. [21:26:19] * tom-morris is now known as tommorris
  494. [21:35:16] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  495. [21:43:56] * davecardwell (n=davecard@212.241.231.39) Quit ()
  496. [21:49:36] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.76-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.4/2006060814]")
  497. [21:49:37] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-4a2c9eabb0bd7909) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  498. [21:51:43] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring&diff=0&oldid=13652 * AndyMabbett * (-75) Add To Address Book Links - "should" (which has specific meaning in IT) -> "can"
  499. [21:54:39] <mfbot> [[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=13653 * AndyMabbett * (-63) correct date, from cited page
  500. [21:56:17] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-fb72712861bbd487) has joined #microformats
  501. [22:00:50] * trovster (n=trovster@user-5af01067.wfd96.dsl.pol.co.uk) Quit ()
  502. [22:08:55] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) Quit ("Leaving")
  503. [22:11:41] <mkaply> do folks generally prefer Javasript filenames to be lowercase?
  504. [22:11:43] <kingryan> hey mkaply
  505. [22:11:55] <kingryan> weird, I was just about to try and get your attention
  506. [22:11:55] <mkaply> Like should it be ufJSParser.js or ufjsparser.js
  507. [22:12:05] <mkaply> kingryan: You're going to be at SXSW, aren't you?
  508. [22:12:18] <kingryan> yeah
  509. [22:12:31] * mkaply hopes to get to meet some folks
  510. [22:12:42] <mkaply> kingryan: what's up?
  511. [22:12:59] <kingryan> operator thinks the hcards on http://technorati.com/wtf/ are invalid, but I don't think they are
  512. [22:13:25] <kingryan> wait, no we might be missing the fn
  513. [22:13:40] * kingryan has to go re-read the implied-nickname thing
  514. [22:15:36] <mkaply> yep. No fn.
  515. [22:15:39] <mkaply> fn always has to be there
  516. [22:15:53] <mfbot> [[abbr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/abbr * AndyMabbett * (+33)
  517. [22:15:55] <mkaply> fn can never be implied
  518. [22:15:59] <kingryan> yeah
  519. [22:16:06] * kingryan goes to do a bug-report
  520. [22:16:54] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/0000000000]")
  521. [22:26:34] <bewest> what's the SXSW page?
  522. [22:26:46] * bewest wants to go to www2007 but it's a bit pricey
  523. [22:26:50] <kingryan> it should be linked from http://microformats.org/wiki/events (if it exists)
  524. [22:29:38] * aajhiggs (n=aajhiggs@82-37-201-227.cable.ubr05.dudl.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ()
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  526. [22:38:01] * woodss (i=w_laptop@modem-3740.hartebeest.dialup.pol.co.uk) Quit ("pwnt")
  527. [22:38:31] * Ashe`` (n=Ashe@62.47.227.41) Quit ("23: Never allow a telephone conversation with a woman to go on longer than you are able to have sex with her. Keep a stopwatc)
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  529. [22:42:09] <mkaply> bewest: for getting in or for going
  530. [22:44:05] <bewest> mkaply: both?
  531. [22:44:15] <bewest> I suppose I let my employer know a little too late
  532. [22:44:19] * mkaply lives in Austin so he can save some money
  533. [22:44:30] <bewest> my boss said if we could be in a panel or something I could go
  534. [22:44:35] <bewest> but all the deadlines have already passed
  535. [22:44:53] <bewest> (I'm talking about www2007)
  536. [22:45:08] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
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