IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-03-15
Timestamps are in UTC.
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[[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=14241 * Tantek * (+457) added some session notes
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- [09:19:19] * Topic is 'http://microformats.org/wiki/irc - if you are new here, add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people'
- [09:19:19] * Set by tantek on Sat Dec 23 18:53:06 CET 2006
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[[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=14242 * AndyMabbett * (+256) Science + Technology -
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[[spellcheck]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/spellcheck * AndyMabbett * (+399) work in progress
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[[spellcheck]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=14243 * AndyMabbett * (+354) more, sort, fmt - think I'm done!
- [11:33:26] <mfbot>
[[spellcheck]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=14244 * AndyMabbett * (+10) Words - addc aps versions
- [11:34:52] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=14245 * AndyMabbett * (+83) Getting Started - spell-check dictionary
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[[Template:welcome]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:welcome&diff=0&oldid=14246 * AndyMabbett * (+83) spell-check dictionary
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[[spellcheck]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=14247 * AndyMabbett * (+47) sign
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[[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14248 * Tantek * (+1073) added cookcamp photo, resolved issue.
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[[music-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14249 * ScottReynen * (+186)
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[[music-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14250 * AndyMabbett * (+152) The Problem - furteer use case, as implied by following section ("discussion" et al)
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[[music-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14251 * AndyMabbett * (+31) The Problem - expand my last
- [16:07:00] <mfbot>
[[music-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14252 * Tantek * (+23) reworded problem statement. what publishers say they "want" is irrelevant. the 80/20 of the data that publishers actually *publish* on the *web* *today* is what is worth marking up.
- [16:11:32] <mfbot>
[[spellcheck]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=14253 * Tantek * (+5) typo, added µF
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[[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14254 * AndyMabbett * (+883) Scope - refuting fallacious claims with thousands of examples
- [16:41:50] <mfbot>
[[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14255 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Scope - fix link
- [16:42:16] <mfbot>
[[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14256 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Scope - "
- [16:43:32] <mfbot>
[[recipe-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14257 * AndyMabbett * (+908) Non-food recipes
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[[music-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14258 * AndyMabbett * (+0) CDDb is a database tool, not a player
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[[music-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14259 * AndyMabbett * (+1) grammar (files, plural)
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- [17:28:37] <mfbot>
[[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14260 * Tantek * (-884) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [17:29:28] <mfbot>
[[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14261 * Tantek * (+51) previous revert was due to no information added. google counts are notoriously inaccurate, please add URLs to examples to *-examples pages.
- [17:30:19] <mfbot>
[[recipe-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14262 * Tantek * (-908) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Jason250
- [17:31:15] <mfbot>
[[recipe-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14263 * Tantek * (+79) previous revert was due to no information added. google counts are notoriously inaccurate, please add URLs to actual examples, not search results
- [17:32:51] <mfbot>
[[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14264 * AndyMabbett * (+833) rv. Issue is existence of results, not merely the number thereof; and fallacy of preceeding claim
- [17:33:27] <mfbot>
[[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14265 * Tantek * (-833) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [17:33:33] <mfbot>
[[recipe-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14266 * AndyMabbett * (+829) rv. THese are links to such examples, so taht anyone (including you, Tantek) can add them as and when tey have time
- [17:35:44] <mfbot>
[[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14267 * Tantek * (+98) revert was to remove non-information. 80/20 does not mean lack of existence of non-food recipes, merely that they are outside the 80.
- [17:36:34] <bewest>
"gee, tantek, why aren't search results acceptable submissions to -brainstorming and -examples pages"? ;-)
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- [17:37:16] <tantek>
bewest, perhaps you could add that to the faq ;)
- [17:37:31] <bewest>
maybe I'll bring it up on -discuss
- [17:37:39] <bewest>
so people discuss it
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- [17:37:55] <mfbot>
[[recipe-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14268 * Tantek * (-829) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [17:39:31] <mfbot>
[[recipe-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14269 * Tantek * (+41) previous revert was removal of out-of-scope non-information. please do not add search results as examples. that does not save anyone anytime, as anyone on the web can simply use a search engine.
- [17:39:51] <tantek>
bewest, is it worth bringing up on -discuss?
- [17:39:56] <bewest>
yes
- [17:40:15] <bewest>
maybe -new?
- [17:40:17] <tantek>
actually, it is more about new microformats
- [17:40:18] <tantek>
right
- [17:40:28] <tantek>
plus instead of making it open ended
- [17:40:40] <bewest>
subject will be "process discussion: search results as evidence"
- [17:41:10] <bewest>
I think it should be open ended to help people think about the process
- [17:41:32] <tantek>
as long as we keep the signal to noise ratio reasonable
- [17:41:37] <tantek>
and base it on a concrete example
- [17:41:43] <tantek>
not just theoretical discussion
- [17:41:55] <tantek>
we should avoid all theoretical discussions - as they are endless sources of noise
- [17:42:06] <bewest>
ok
- [17:42:31] <tantek>
and unfortunately some people like wasting lots of other people's time with theoretical discussions
- [17:42:40] <bewest>
then I will scope it around the recipes stuff
- [17:42:40] <tantek>
so such things quickly spiral out of control
- [17:42:53] <bewest>
it's good to highlight when something is conforming to the process by way of example
- [17:43:10] <tantek>
right
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[[hlisting-proposal]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-proposal&diff=0&oldid=14270 * AlexRudloff * (+69) Examples in the Wild -
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[[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=14271 * AndyMabbett * (+986) Censorship -
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[[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=14272 * AndyMabbett * (+26) Non-food recipes -
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- [18:05:08] <bewest>
tantek: so I primarily said that search results to constitue primary sources
- [18:05:46] <tantek>
huh?
- [18:05:58] <bewest>
tantek: and that the evidence is only useful when it allows you to do the kind of brainstorming discussions currently taking place, simply having a "count" from a search engine for a string isn't useful for that
- [18:05:58] <bewest>
um
- [18:06:01] <bewest>
opposite
- [18:06:05] <bewest>
sometimes I say/type the opposite
- [18:06:06] <bewest>
by mistake
- [18:06:08] <bewest>
don't
- [18:06:10] <bewest>
don't constitude
- [18:06:12] <bewest>
doh
- [18:06:13] <bewest>
I give up
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- [18:06:24] <tantek>
especially from search engines that provide notoriously inaccurate counts
- [18:06:32] <tantek>
like orders of magnitude inaccurate
- [18:07:39] <tantek>
interesting that Andy's response to the removal of his non-information is for him to pollute his own profile page with such non-information. i suppose that's reasonable.
- [18:07:57] <bewest>
first paragraph was written before you reminded me to keep it concrete ;-)
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- [18:25:40] <ianloic>
how inappropriate is it to contact someone through last.fm for recruitment purposes
- [18:28:20] <tantek>
bewest, excellent post
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- [18:51:42] <bewest>
tantek: thanks :-)
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- [19:00:17] <ianloic>
bewest, where do you post?
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- [19:00:26] <ianloic>
hey hey its factoryjoe!
- [19:01:16] <factoryjoe>
yoyo
- [19:01:23] <factoryjoe>
@ the barcamp planners summit in austin
- [19:01:26] <ianloic>
factoryjoe, nice dude
- [19:01:36] <ianloic>
factoryjoe, 'meta-camp'?
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- [19:04:25] <factoryjoe>
indeed
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- [19:18:13] <danja>
bewest - primary sources, yeah, well put
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- [19:40:25] <mfbot>
[[User:AndyMabbett]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=14273 * AndyMabbett * (-1) Non-food recipes -
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- [20:10:11] <bewest>
ianloic: I posted on the -new mailing list, but I will presently also post on my blog... please hold
- [20:10:23] <ianloic>
ahh
- [20:10:28] <ianloic>
I've been neglecting the lists lately
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- [20:12:23] <mkaply>
ical doesn't handle - separators in DTSTART and DTEND. Lovely
- [20:12:51] <bewest>
ianloic: http://bewest.wordpress.com/2007/03/15/microformats-process-discussion-search-results-as-evidence/
- [20:13:05] <bewest>
oooo need to fix some thigns!
- [20:14:18] * bewest wishes wordpress knew when to collapse newlines better
- [20:15:01] <ianloic>
bewest, it makes your post look like poetry!
- [20:15:44] <bewest>
ok, I edited it so the links work
- [20:15:50] <ianloic>
bewest, good post - less crazy than email as atom pub :)
- [20:15:56] <bewest>
hehe
- [20:16:00] <bewest>
sometimes I go a bit crazy!
- [20:16:04] <bewest>
feel free to tell me
- [20:16:18] <bewest>
for example, tantek reminded me as I was writing that post to stay focused and concrete
- [20:16:21] <bewest>
I need it :-(
- [20:16:23] <ianloic>
that's not a problem - I think its an awesome idea. just crazy.
- [20:16:51] <ianloic>
I think we often forget the scope of search.
- [20:16:55] <ianloic>
I mean, so does google.
- [20:17:44] <ianloic>
Just like how a standardized test is mostly a test of how well you take standardized tests, a web search tells you what documents contain certain strings and not a whole lot more.
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- [22:19:58] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=14274 * AhmedF * (+129) New Examples -
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- [23:40:18] <mfbot>
[[rest/examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/examples&diff=0&oldid=14275 * DrErnie * (+121) Real-World Examples -
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