IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-03-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  17. [02:57:02] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-12-sxsw-growth-evolution-of&diff=0&oldid=14241 * Tantek * (+457) added some session notes
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  23. [09:19:19] * Topic is 'http://microformats.org/wiki/irc - if you are new here, add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people'
  24. [09:19:19] * Set by tantek on Sat Dec 23 18:53:06 CET 2006
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  45. [11:17:33] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=14242 * AndyMabbett * (+256) Science + Technology -
  46. [11:21:19] <mfbot> [[spellcheck]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/spellcheck * AndyMabbett * (+399) work in progress
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  52. [11:32:55] <mfbot> [[spellcheck]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=14243 * AndyMabbett * (+354) more, sort, fmt - think I'm done!
  53. [11:33:26] <mfbot> [[spellcheck]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=14244 * AndyMabbett * (+10) Words - addc aps versions
  54. [11:34:52] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=14245 * AndyMabbett * (+83) Getting Started - spell-check dictionary
  55. [11:35:38] <mfbot> [[Template:welcome]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:welcome&diff=0&oldid=14246 * AndyMabbett * (+83) spell-check dictionary
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  57. [11:48:20] <mfbot> [[spellcheck]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=14247 * AndyMabbett * (+47) sign
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  86. [14:39:23] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14248 * Tantek * (+1073) added cookcamp photo, resolved issue.
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  93. [15:26:26] <mfbot> [[music-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14249 * ScottReynen * (+186)
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  97. [15:41:52] <mfbot> [[music-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14250 * AndyMabbett * (+152) The Problem - furteer use case, as implied by following section ("discussion" et al)
  98. [15:43:04] <mfbot> [[music-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14251 * AndyMabbett * (+31) The Problem - expand my last
  99. [16:07:00] <mfbot> [[music-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14252 * Tantek * (+23) reworded problem statement. what publishers say they "want" is irrelevant. the 80/20 of the data that publishers actually *publish* on the *web* *today* is what is worth marking up.
  100. [16:11:32] <mfbot> [[spellcheck]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=14253 * Tantek * (+5) typo, added µF
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  111. [16:41:04] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14254 * AndyMabbett * (+883) Scope - refuting fallacious claims with thousands of examples
  112. [16:41:50] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14255 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Scope - fix link
  113. [16:42:16] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14256 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Scope - "
  114. [16:43:32] <mfbot> [[recipe-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14257 * AndyMabbett * (+908) Non-food recipes
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  120. [16:55:03] <mfbot> [[music-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14258 * AndyMabbett * (+0) CDDb is a database tool, not a player
  121. [16:56:45] <mfbot> [[music-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=music-examples&diff=0&oldid=14259 * AndyMabbett * (+1) grammar (files, plural)
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  130. [17:28:37] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14260 * Tantek * (-884) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  131. [17:29:28] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14261 * Tantek * (+51) previous revert was due to no information added. google counts are notoriously inaccurate, please add URLs to examples to *-examples pages.
  132. [17:30:19] <mfbot> [[recipe-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14262 * Tantek * (-908) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Jason250
  133. [17:31:15] <mfbot> [[recipe-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14263 * Tantek * (+79) previous revert was due to no information added. google counts are notoriously inaccurate, please add URLs to actual examples, not search results
  134. [17:32:51] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14264 * AndyMabbett * (+833) rv. Issue is existence of results, not merely the number thereof; and fallacy of preceeding claim
  135. [17:33:27] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14265 * Tantek * (-833) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  136. [17:33:33] <mfbot> [[recipe-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14266 * AndyMabbett * (+829) rv. THese are links to such examples, so taht anyone (including you, Tantek) can add them as and when tey have time
  137. [17:35:44] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=14267 * Tantek * (+98) revert was to remove non-information. 80/20 does not mean lack of existence of non-food recipes, merely that they are outside the 80.
  138. [17:36:34] <bewest> "gee, tantek, why aren't search results acceptable submissions to -brainstorming and -examples pages"? ;-)
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  141. [17:37:16] <tantek> bewest, perhaps you could add that to the faq ;)
  142. [17:37:31] <bewest> maybe I'll bring it up on -discuss
  143. [17:37:39] <bewest> so people discuss it
  144. [17:37:45] * bear42 is now known as bear
  145. [17:37:55] <mfbot> [[recipe-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14268 * Tantek * (-829) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  146. [17:39:31] <mfbot> [[recipe-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=14269 * Tantek * (+41) previous revert was removal of out-of-scope non-information. please do not add search results as examples. that does not save anyone anytime, as anyone on the web can simply use a search engine.
  147. [17:39:51] <tantek> bewest, is it worth bringing up on -discuss?
  148. [17:39:56] <bewest> yes
  149. [17:40:15] <bewest> maybe -new?
  150. [17:40:17] <tantek> actually, it is more about new microformats
  151. [17:40:18] <tantek> right
  152. [17:40:28] <tantek> plus instead of making it open ended
  153. [17:40:40] <bewest> subject will be "process discussion: search results as evidence"
  154. [17:41:10] <bewest> I think it should be open ended to help people think about the process
  155. [17:41:32] <tantek> as long as we keep the signal to noise ratio reasonable
  156. [17:41:37] <tantek> and base it on a concrete example
  157. [17:41:43] <tantek> not just theoretical discussion
  158. [17:41:55] <tantek> we should avoid all theoretical discussions - as they are endless sources of noise
  159. [17:42:06] <bewest> ok
  160. [17:42:31] <tantek> and unfortunately some people like wasting lots of other people's time with theoretical discussions
  161. [17:42:40] <bewest> then I will scope it around the recipes stuff
  162. [17:42:40] <tantek> so such things quickly spiral out of control
  163. [17:42:53] <bewest> it's good to highlight when something is conforming to the process by way of example
  164. [17:43:10] <tantek> right
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  167. [17:50:17] <mfbot> [[hlisting-proposal]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hlisting-proposal&diff=0&oldid=14270 * AlexRudloff * (+69) Examples in the Wild -
  168. [17:51:34] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=14271 * AndyMabbett * (+986) Censorship -
  169. [17:52:15] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=14272 * AndyMabbett * (+26) Non-food recipes -
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  172. [18:05:08] <bewest> tantek: so I primarily said that search results to constitue primary sources
  173. [18:05:46] <tantek> huh?
  174. [18:05:58] <bewest> tantek: and that the evidence is only useful when it allows you to do the kind of brainstorming discussions currently taking place, simply having a "count" from a search engine for a string isn't useful for that
  175. [18:05:58] <bewest> um
  176. [18:06:01] <bewest> opposite
  177. [18:06:05] <bewest> sometimes I say/type the opposite
  178. [18:06:06] <bewest> by mistake
  179. [18:06:08] <bewest> don't
  180. [18:06:10] <bewest> don't constitude
  181. [18:06:12] <bewest> doh
  182. [18:06:13] <bewest> I give up
  183. [18:06:14] * dydimustk (n=tk@192.231.160.6) has joined #microformats
  184. [18:06:24] <tantek> especially from search engines that provide notoriously inaccurate counts
  185. [18:06:32] <tantek> like orders of magnitude inaccurate
  186. [18:07:39] <tantek> interesting that Andy's response to the removal of his non-information is for him to pollute his own profile page with such non-information. i suppose that's reasonable.
  187. [18:07:57] <bewest> first paragraph was written before you reminded me to keep it concrete ;-)
  188. [18:08:02] * bewest was about to fall down a rabbit hole
  189. [18:18:19] * dydimustk_lunch (n=tk@192.231.160.6) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  190. [18:25:40] <ianloic> how inappropriate is it to contact someone through last.fm for recruitment purposes
  191. [18:28:20] <tantek> bewest, excellent post
  192. [18:43:17] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  193. [18:51:42] <bewest> tantek: thanks :-)
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  200. [19:00:17] <ianloic> bewest, where do you post?
  201. [19:00:22] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit ()
  202. [19:00:26] <ianloic> hey hey its factoryjoe!
  203. [19:01:16] <factoryjoe> yoyo
  204. [19:01:23] <factoryjoe> @ the barcamp planners summit in austin
  205. [19:01:26] <ianloic> factoryjoe, nice dude
  206. [19:01:36] <ianloic> factoryjoe, 'meta-camp'?
  207. [19:04:21] * AlexanderGra|off (n=Ashe@213.47.199.86) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  208. [19:04:25] <factoryjoe> indeed
  209. [19:11:51] * dydimustk (n=tk@192.231.160.6) has joined #microformats
  210. [19:18:13] <danja> bewest - primary sources, yeah, well put
  211. [19:22:35] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Success)
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  216. [19:40:25] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=14273 * AndyMabbett * (-1) Non-food recipes -
  217. [19:40:56] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.10/0000000000]")
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  219. [20:10:11] <bewest> ianloic: I posted on the -new mailing list, but I will presently also post on my blog... please hold
  220. [20:10:23] <ianloic> ahh
  221. [20:10:28] <ianloic> I've been neglecting the lists lately
  222. [20:11:11] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  223. [20:12:22] * dydimustk (n=tk@192.231.160.6) has joined #microformats
  224. [20:12:23] <mkaply> ical doesn't handle - separators in DTSTART and DTEND. Lovely
  225. [20:12:51] <bewest> ianloic: http://bewest.wordpress.com/2007/03/15/microformats-process-discussion-search-results-as-evidence/
  226. [20:13:05] <bewest> oooo need to fix some thigns!
  227. [20:14:18] * bewest wishes wordpress knew when to collapse newlines better
  228. [20:15:01] <ianloic> bewest, it makes your post look like poetry!
  229. [20:15:44] <bewest> ok, I edited it so the links work
  230. [20:15:50] <ianloic> bewest, good post - less crazy than email as atom pub :)
  231. [20:15:56] <bewest> hehe
  232. [20:16:00] <bewest> sometimes I go a bit crazy!
  233. [20:16:04] <bewest> feel free to tell me
  234. [20:16:18] <bewest> for example, tantek reminded me as I was writing that post to stay focused and concrete
  235. [20:16:21] <bewest> I need it :-(
  236. [20:16:23] <ianloic> that's not a problem - I think its an awesome idea. just crazy.
  237. [20:16:51] <ianloic> I think we often forget the scope of search.
  238. [20:16:55] <ianloic> I mean, so does google.
  239. [20:17:44] <ianloic> Just like how a standardized test is mostly a test of how well you take standardized tests, a web search tells you what documents contain certain strings and not a whole lot more.
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  277. [22:19:58] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=14274 * AhmedF * (+129) New Examples -
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  305. [23:40:18] <mfbot> [[rest/examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/examples&diff=0&oldid=14275 * DrErnie * (+121) Real-World Examples -
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.