IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-04-09
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:04:24] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://gmachina.com - gaming feeds in bulk")
- [00:06:21] <bewest>
gah I hate wiki syntax
- [00:06:27] <bewest>
as well as editing in forms
- [00:08:11] <bewest>
wikis should use a subset of html and should operate over atom publishing protocol so nicer clients can be made (imagine editing a wiki with real tools like svn and vim using an atompub bridge of some kind)
- [00:08:20] <bewest>
the web app would just be another client of the atom store
- [00:11:30] <mfbot>
[[citation-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-issues&diff=0&oldid=15300 * BenWest * (+479) added andy's comment about citation format conversion.
- [00:11:36] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=15301 * BenWest * (-366) Convert citation formats - moving andy's comment to the issues page. hope he doesn't mind.
- [00:12:27] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=15302 * BenWest * (+22) See also - added a link to citation-issues
- [00:17:27] <bewest>
hax: btw, I meant to mention the other day, markp also has some uf parsing stuff in javascript
- [00:19:15] <bewest>
http://diveintomark.org/projects/greasemonkey/
- [00:19:31] <bewest>
http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2005-September/000903.html
- [00:20:12] <bewest>
and I also found this http://www.danwebb.net/2007/2/9/sumo-a-generic-microformats-parser-for-javascript
- [00:20:48] <mfbot>
[[buttons]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=buttons&diff=0&oldid=15303 * Kwilson * (+188) Added license info for my button images.
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- [00:22:42] <BobJonkman>
Help. I'm trying to code an hCalendar page an event that takes place over three days, from 10:00 to 18:00 each day. Can this be done as a single hEvent?
- [00:23:39] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=15304 * Kwilson * (-83) Removed jwz link that was just an excerpt from the other linked page.
- [00:26:12] <BobJonkman>
(vevent, of course). Or should this be three separate vevents? Or a repeating vevent?
- [00:29:45] <mfbot>
[[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=15305 * BenWest * (-1994) Outstanding Issues - moved brian suda's outstanding issues to the issues page.
- [00:30:16] <mfbot>
[[citation-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-issues&diff=0&oldid=15306 * BenWest * (+2645) added Brian Suda's outstanding issues from brainstorming page.
- [00:34:28] <mfbot>
[[citation]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation&diff=0&oldid=15307 * BenWest * (+22) added link to issues page in see also section.
- [00:34:44] <bewest>
ok that's enough wiki action for me
- [00:34:48] <bewest>
</rant>
- [00:35:15] <bewest>
BobJonkman: have you checked the faq? I think this has been brought up before
- [00:35:59] <BobJonkman>
I looked... The hCalendar wiki has grown a bit unruly. I couldn't find it there. Have you a link?
- [00:36:49] <bewest>
hrm
- [00:37:17] <bewest>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-faq
- [00:37:21] <bewest>
and scanning...
- [00:38:33] <BobJonkman>
Me too. My in-the-wild is at http://sobac.com/records/tentsale/
- [00:47:51] <BobJonkman>
Found something similar at http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming#Laughing_Squid
- [00:48:35] <bewest>
hrm
- [00:48:55] <bewest>
if you have any more energy, I'd suggest searching the mailing list archives
- [00:49:00] <bewest>
I'm sure this has been asked before
- [00:49:27] <BobJonkman>
I'll try putting something similar with RDATE, then see if Operator and http://feeds.technorati.com/events/http%3A//sobac.com/records/tentsale/ can grok it.
- [00:49:28] <bewest>
if you find it, please add it to the faq, or at least rattle a stick around on the mailing list so someone else can add it to the faq
- [00:49:36] <bewest>
cool
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- [01:31:10] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [01:48:45] <bewest>
BobJonkman: did that work?
- [01:57:09] <bewest>
tantek: do we have a definition of "issue" somwhere?
- [01:58:03] <tantek>
no - do we really need one?
- [01:58:22] <tantek>
it's basically something that somebody raises as what they *think* is a problem with a spec
- [01:58:26] <tantek>
or a proposal/draft
- [01:58:30] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@cpe-76-189-108-141.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
- [01:58:46] <tantek>
and yeah, i agree with your email, assertion of random top-down theoretical requirements are next to useless
- [01:58:58] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aay032.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
- [01:59:13] <tantek>
they must be based in at *least* the microformats principles, *or* example per the process.
- [01:59:31] <tantek>
otherwise they are imminently ignorable as "asserted theoretical requirements"
- [02:00:15] <tantek>
in fact, any issues that lack citation of real world examples (with URL) can also be categorized as "theoretical issues" at the bottom of the respective issues page, thus lowering their priority below all the other "real world" issues.
- [02:00:32] <tantek>
theoreticians/academics may hate it, but that's our focus. real world first. theoretical if we get around to it.
- [02:03:06] <bewest>
hmmm
- [02:03:26] <bewest>
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html I like these kinds of issues
- [02:03:39] <bewest>
they help requirements emerge in a way similar to our process
- [02:04:34] <bewest>
and they are all phrased as questions
- [02:05:50] <bewest>
and they make the process of iteration clear
- [02:06:02] <bewest>
I would prefer something similar more similar to this than our current brainstorming process
- [02:06:49] <bewest>
it might give academics having a hard time adjust to the process a bit more framework to latch onto
- [02:17:21] <hax>
haha! i've conquered irssi's window usage!
- [02:17:35] * hax now has #microformats stuck in a 'container' for continuous watching
- [02:20:21] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) Quit ("Leaving...")
- [02:21:02] <hax>
bewest: this sumo thing is exactly what i needed
- [02:21:05] <hax>
bewest: like, precisely
- [02:21:09] <bewest>
hax: don't forget to join the mailing list
- [02:21:14] <hax>
bewest: i should do that
- [02:21:23] <bewest>
hax: I think mkaply raised some issues with the sumo thing
- [02:21:45] <bewest>
hax: IIRC there was some limiting feature of the sumo thing
- [02:22:46] <hax>
bewest: when school calms down again, i'm gonna have to get serious about all this
- [02:23:09] <hax>
i see so much stuff that needs doing
- [02:23:09] <hax>
heh
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- [03:16:06] <hax>
i wonder if it's appropriate to use one of those neat hcard icons for linking to a vcard
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- [03:37:16] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15308 * ManuSporny * (+143) Adding file-format exploratory discussion page
- [03:39:37] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15309 * ManuSporny * (+13) Exploratory Discussions -
- [03:39:58] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15310 * ManuSporny * (-1) Exploratory Discussions -
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- [04:16:20] <mfbot>
[[citation-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-issues&diff=0&oldid=15311 * ThomasBreuel * (-3216) Issues -
- [04:17:16] <mfbot>
[[citation-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-issues&diff=0&oldid=15312 * ThomasBreuel * (+135) Issues -
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- [04:20:09] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [04:22:22] <mfbot>
[[file-format-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/file-format-examples * ManuSporny * (+2608) Created file format examples page (according to template)
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- [04:33:19] <mfbot>
[[file-format-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=file-format-examples&diff=0&oldid=15313 * ManuSporny * (+206) Real-World Examples -
- [04:47:07] <danja>
ya fuck monty, i gotta doiot
- [04:48:37] <danja>
drunkard in seattlke
- [04:49:06] <danja>
damn yanks
- [04:49:41] <danja>
innit
- [04:51:42] <BobJonkman>
bewest: After a break for dinner I think I've finally got RDATE working. The technorati/event link recognizes it (generates a .ics file with RDATE), although neither Operator nor Tails seems to know what to do with it.
- [04:52:52] * danja realizez alcoholism no bad
- [04:53:17] <bewest>
BobJonkman: cool
- [04:53:28] <bewest>
BobJonkman: you might just ask mkaply when he's around if operator supports rdate
- [04:53:34] <BobJonkman>
Will do.
- [04:55:12] <danja>
BobJ - can you please wire www-archive with your findings
- [04:56:03] <danja>
calendar's a bitch
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- [05:05:31] <mfbot>
[[file-format-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=file-format-examples&diff=0&oldid=15314 * ManuSporny * (+168) Real-World Examples -
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- [05:08:52] <mfbot>
[[file-format-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=file-format-examples&diff=0&oldid=15315 * ManuSporny * (+849) Other attempts to solve The Problem -
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- [05:48:22] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [08:22:50] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
- [08:30:30] <mfbot>
[[file-format-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=file-format-examples&diff=0&oldid=15316 * AndyMabbett * (+20) See Also - rel-enclosure
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- [08:53:24] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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[[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=15317 * AndyMabbett * (+171) Issues - Why is "geo" still a draft?
- [09:25:55] <mfbot>
[[firefox-extensions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=15318 * AndyMabbett * (-80) Operator - update
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- [11:14:15] <bretonslivka>
Microformats!
- [11:14:45] <mfbot>
[[firefox-extensions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=15319 * AndyMabbett * (-3) Operator - tweak
- [11:16:36] <mfbot>
[[firefox-extensions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=15320 * AndyMabbett * (+10) Web Cards - was 404
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- [11:24:23] <bretonslivka>
ahoy?
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- [11:53:53] <mfbot>
[[events/2007-04-18-web-2-expo-dinner]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-04-18-web-2-expo-dinner&diff=0&oldid=15321 * Adactio * (+30) Who -
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[[adr-poll]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/adr-poll * AndyMabbett * (+1120)
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[[adr-poll]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-poll&diff=0&oldid=15322 * AndyMabbett * (+28) General comments
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- [12:23:47] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [12:30:47] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [12:35:42] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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[[geo-profile]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/geo-profile * AndyMabbett * (+1416) first draft
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- [12:51:20] <mfbot>
[[geo-profile]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-profile&diff=0&oldid=15323 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Geo Profile - cap
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[[geo-profile]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-profile&diff=0&oldid=15324 * AndyMabbett * (+57) warning
- [12:54:32] <mfbot>
[[glossary]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15325 * AndyMabbett * (+13) XMDP
- [12:57:08] <mfbot>
[[glossary]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15326 * AndyMabbett * (+83) XMDP
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[[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15327 * AndyMabbett * (+23) '''
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[[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15328 * AndyMabbett * (+0) '''
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Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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[[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15329 * AndyMabbett * (+100) italics
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[[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15330 * AndyMabbett * (+4) ''
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- [14:35:02] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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- [14:51:30] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [14:54:59] <jibot>
SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
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- [15:18:07] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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- [15:33:14] <jibot>
tylerr is Tyler Roehmholdt and involves himself in the HTML WG and WaSP-related advocacy.
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[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15331 * ManuSporny * (+31) Exploratory Discussions -
- [15:35:36] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15332 * ManuSporny * (+16) Exploratory Discussions -
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- [15:55:29] <jibot>
Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
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- [15:58:43] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [16:11:51] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [16:32:24] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [16:56:00] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [17:15:31] <jibot>
ddfreyne is nothing
- [17:15:42] <ddfreyne>
!forgetme
- [17:16:01] <ddfreyne>
whatever… I don't remember how to make jibot forget me, and jibot never forgets me anyway
- [17:16:30] <ddfreyne>
Quick question… why do we need "permalinks"?
- [17:16:45] <ddfreyne>
As in… should the URL of a given page/article/post/entry not be enough on its own?
- [17:17:06] <factoryjoe>
what if it's contained in something else?
- [17:17:12] <factoryjoe>
like in an RSS feed?
- [17:17:16] <factoryjoe>
or in a blog homepage?
- [17:17:22] <factoryjoe>
you need a place to go find the definitive source of the data
- [17:17:32] <factoryjoe>
i.e. the "permanent link"
- [17:18:03] <ddfreyne>
Hmm, good point
- [17:18:08] <ddfreyne>
seems to be abused quite often though
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- [17:18:26] <ddfreyne>
on an individual blog post page, there's no point in having a "permalink" link which simply leads back to the original page
- [17:18:47] <ddfreyne>
Also, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it a "perma-URL" instead?
- [17:20:36] <factoryjoe>
convention rules in this case
- [17:20:54] <factoryjoe>
and it's not redundant on the individual page, since it's self-referential
- [17:21:05] <factoryjoe>
it's a way of pointing to oneself as the definitive URL for the data
- [17:21:16] <factoryjoe>
like, "here i am, you're at the endpoint, you found me"
- [17:21:42] <ddfreyne>
Ah, hm.
- [17:22:57] <ddfreyne>
Thanks, I'm convinced.
- [17:25:53] <factoryjoe>
heh nice
- [17:25:54] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [17:26:02] <factoryjoe>
also check out the discussion about authoritative hcards
- [17:26:22] <factoryjoe>
http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-February/008652.html
- [17:28:14] <ddfreyne>
oh, very interesting
- [17:30:00] <ddfreyne>
Cleaning up my site's HTML and adding some more microformat stuff
- [17:30:28] <ddfreyne>
Hm… how compatible are microformats with HTML5?
- [17:30:47] <factoryjoe>
does html5 exist?
- [17:31:06] <factoryjoe>
i would imagine, very compatible, especially with today's xhtml browsers
- [17:31:49] <ddfreyne>
well… it's a WIP and not widely used yet… but it introduces some nice new elements which may be useful
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- [17:33:53] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
- [17:35:21] <factoryjoe>
are they necessary?
- [17:35:31] <factoryjoe>
i see firefox 3 supports xforms
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- [17:39:22] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [18:20:37] <mfbot>
[[User:BeUssery]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:BeUssery * BeUssery * (+8)
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- [18:31:29] <mfbot>
[[picoformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=15333 * Chris Messina * (+25) adding iGTD syntax
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- [19:27:52] <jibot>
davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
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- [19:36:02] <mfbot>
[[User talk:BeUssery]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:BeUssery * AndyMabbett * (+70) Welcome!
- [19:36:28] <mfbot>
[[picoformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=15334 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Documented Syntaxes - alphabeticise
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- [20:07:27] <bewes1>
herm
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- [21:16:33] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=15335 * AndyMabbett * (+222) Geo Successes - Wikipedia-NL
- [21:17:19] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=15336 * AndyMabbett * (+9) Geo Successes - tweak
- [21:19:39] <bewes1>
tantek, kingryan: I think this business of proposing movements of microformats from draft to full spec is a form of top-down requirements/decision making is it not? the idea that a microformat should represent some kind of artificial state is contrary to the emergent design of microformats: microformats are required to solve demonstrated problems in the web publishing space and the state a given microformat is in is a property of the adoption and publi
- [21:20:30] <mfbot>
[[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=15337 * AndyMabbett * (+213) Examples in the wild - Wikipedia-NL
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- [21:24:30] <tantek>
bewest - it's a stronger statement than that I think.
- [21:24:53] <tantek>
such different states indicate how much the community believes in the stability vs. malleability of the given format.
- [21:25:05] <tantek>
how well tested vs. experimental it is etc.
- [21:25:31] <tantek>
it's very different that the typical "top-down requirements" type stuff that usually goes on *before* a spec is written
- [21:25:41] <bewes1>
ok I see some value there
- [21:25:56] <bewes1>
but why not define a metric for that
- [21:26:14] <bewes1>
we have powerful search engines and analysis tools at our disposal
- [21:26:23] <tantek>
you're asking for a reason against a negative?
- [21:26:38] <bewes1>
hmmm
- [21:26:43] * bewes1 treads carefully
- [21:27:13] <tantek>
the short answer for most "why not" questions is, because there are plenty of things to do, and not enough people to do them (and do them reasonably well)
- [21:27:21] <mfbot>
[[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=15338 * AndyMabbett * (+288) Examples in the wild - Wikpedia-DE
- [21:27:36] <bewes1>
on what basis, then, does who declare a given format's "official" status?
- [21:28:02] <tantek>
so bewest, perhaps add it to your section on the to-do page, help figure out qualitative/quantitative differences that can be used to assert what state a spec should be in
- [21:28:18] <bewes1>
fair enough
- [21:29:01] <tantek>
in short, anyone that asks "why not" essentially volunteers to help look into how to solve the problem/question (not necessarily answering it themselves - because they might not be the right person to answer it - but at least drive the process of how to figure out an answer)
- [21:29:28] <bewes1>
yes
- [21:29:47] <tantek>
and see previous writings about interoperable implementations etc.
- [21:30:40] <tantek>
for some background on this (I'm not proposing adopting *everything* they do, but worth reading to get some context), take a look at how both W3C and IETF designate the different "states" of specs
- [21:33:42] <bewes1>
yeah, I've looked through things a bit
- [21:34:20] <bewes1>
there is some instrumentation, such as last calls and a measurement of interoperable implementations before blessing a spec, but essentially that's what it is
- [21:34:26] <bewes1>
a blessing
- [21:34:47] <bewes1>
it's somewhat mythical and there's room to be more scientific, per GMPG principles
- [21:36:25] <kingryan>
bewes1: afaict, w3c also requires a test suite
- [21:38:09] <bewes1>
yes a test suite is a good component
- [21:39:17] <tommorris>
My new blog now has hAtom and rel-enclosure set up.
- [21:39:25] <tommorris>
http://tom.opiumfield.com/blog/
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- [21:41:33] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=15339 * BenWest * (+701) Ben West (bewest) - add an interest in quantitative analysis wrt deployment issues
- [21:42:47] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [21:44:42] <hober>
tommorris: http://tom.opiumfield.com/blog/2007/04/08 and http://tom.opiumfield.com/blog/2007/04/06 give me the YSOD
- [21:45:04] <tommorris>
YSOD?
- [21:45:28] <hober>
yellow screen of death
- [21:46:03] <hober>
(xml parse error in gecko)
- [21:46:21] <tommorris>
What, for the Atom or for the pages themselves?
- [21:46:28] <hober>
the pages themselves
- [21:46:37] <tommorris>
That's odd, they're working for me in Firefox.
- [21:47:36] <tommorris>
Which version of FF/Gecko are you using?
- [21:47:54] <hober>
oddly enough, restarting firefox made it go away
- [21:48:11] <hober>
FF2.0.0.3/Mac
- [21:48:41] <tommorris>
Ah, got it - I'm using the border attribute on the img element, which is deprecated in XHTML
- [21:49:02] <AGraf``>
tommorris: thats not a problem
- [21:49:06] <AGraf``>
its deprecated, not removed
- [21:49:12] <AGraf``>
and there is not YSOD
- [21:49:22] <AGraf``>
more importantly, you are serving it as <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
- [21:49:29] <AGraf``>
which doesn't trigger the xml parser
- [21:49:42] <AGraf``>
so there wouldnt be a YSOD even if the document had errors
- [21:50:07] * hober chalks it up to a long-running Firefox that got into a weird state
- [21:50:09] <AGraf``>
its probably a dead/not working extension with hobers installation
- [21:50:15] <AGraf``>
probably :>
- [21:50:22] <tommorris>
I'm not serving it as that - that's just what the meta tag says. :)
- [21:50:32] <AGraf``>
oh ok
- [21:50:48] <AGraf``>
you should change it, then, to reflect what you are actually serving
- [21:51:08] <AGraf``>
and my FF does stuff like that too after a few days
- [21:51:28] <tommorris>
Yep, I have a script that negotiates MIME type. Just didn't echo out the right META tag
- [21:52:04] <AGraf``>
cool
- [21:54:20] <tommorris>
Is there a generic element I can use to push out invisible content?
- [21:54:35] <AGraf``>
in html?
- [21:54:43] <AGraf``>
comments :>
- [21:54:51] <AGraf``>
you should *never* push out invisible content
- [21:55:04] <tommorris>
display: none; ...
- [21:55:22] <AGraf``>
that means essentially you are serving machines semantical information that a human user does not see
- [21:55:25] <AGraf``>
which is bad
- [21:55:53] <tommorris>
Just trying to add the date and time to my hAtom, but it's irrelevant for my blog.
- [21:56:52] <AGraf``>
well, use the abbr design pattern and just print out some human readable time/date instead
- [21:58:07] <tommorris>
I'm just gonna do <abbr class="published" title="isodate" />
- [21:58:57] <AGraf``>
hm
- [21:58:59] <AGraf``>
try it :)
- [21:59:20] <hober>
using xml-empty-element syntax for abbr is probably not a good idea
- [21:59:36] <AGraf``>
*probably* not
- [21:59:52] <AGraf``>
better use display: none;
- [21:59:53] <tommorris>
Or I could have <a href="{permalink}" class="bookmark updated" title="{date}">{permalink image}</a>
- [22:00:05] <AGraf``>
although, as a designer, i really encourage you not to
- [22:00:29] <hober>
tommorris: no, the abbr design pattern requires the use of abbr
- [22:00:35] <AGraf``>
that doesnt work
- [22:00:40] <AGraf``>
as hober said...
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- [22:05:50] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15340 * StanfordSoap * (+136) New Examples -
- [22:07:16] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15341 * StanfordSoap * (+0) New Examples -
- [22:08:02] <mfbot>
[[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=15342 * AndyMabbett * (-99) Examples in the wild - fix
- [22:09:48] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15343 * AndyMabbett * (+58) move last to problem section
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- [22:14:43] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [22:35:13] <tommorris>
Putting it in to the 'a' element's title doesn't work. Bugger.
- [22:35:35] <AGraf``>
hober said it already
- [22:35:47] <AGraf``>
the abbr design pattern requires... well... <abbr>
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- [22:38:55] <tommorris>
It also doesn't seem to work if you have contentless abbr. Grr.
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- [22:43:53] <AGraf``>
because you have to abbreviate something
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- [23:13:56] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [23:29:30] <jibot>
danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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