IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-04-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:04:24] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://gmachina.com - gaming feeds in bulk")
  2. [00:06:21] <bewest> gah I hate wiki syntax
  3. [00:06:27] <bewest> as well as editing in forms
  4. [00:08:11] <bewest> wikis should use a subset of html and should operate over atom publishing protocol so nicer clients can be made (imagine editing a wiki with real tools like svn and vim using an atompub bridge of some kind)
  5. [00:08:20] <bewest> the web app would just be another client of the atom store
  6. [00:11:30] <mfbot> [[citation-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-issues&diff=0&oldid=15300 * BenWest * (+479) added andy's comment about citation format conversion.
  7. [00:11:36] <mfbot> [[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=15301 * BenWest * (-366) Convert citation formats - moving andy's comment to the issues page. hope he doesn't mind.
  8. [00:12:27] <mfbot> [[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=15302 * BenWest * (+22) See also - added a link to citation-issues
  9. [00:17:27] <bewest> hax: btw, I meant to mention the other day, markp also has some uf parsing stuff in javascript
  10. [00:19:15] <bewest> http://diveintomark.org/projects/greasemonkey/
  11. [00:19:31] <bewest> http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2005-September/000903.html
  12. [00:20:12] <bewest> and I also found this http://www.danwebb.net/2007/2/9/sumo-a-generic-microformats-parser-for-javascript
  13. [00:20:48] <mfbot> [[buttons]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=buttons&diff=0&oldid=15303 * Kwilson * (+188) Added license info for my button images.
  14. [00:21:09] * ravenn (n=ravenn@203-206-240-219.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #microformats
  15. [00:22:42] <BobJonkman> Help. I'm trying to code an hCalendar page an event that takes place over three days, from 10:00 to 18:00 each day. Can this be done as a single hEvent?
  16. [00:23:39] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=15304 * Kwilson * (-83) Removed jwz link that was just an excerpt from the other linked page.
  17. [00:26:12] <BobJonkman> (vevent, of course). Or should this be three separate vevents? Or a repeating vevent?
  18. [00:29:45] <mfbot> [[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=15305 * BenWest * (-1994) Outstanding Issues - moved brian suda's outstanding issues to the issues page.
  19. [00:30:16] <mfbot> [[citation-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-issues&diff=0&oldid=15306 * BenWest * (+2645) added Brian Suda's outstanding issues from brainstorming page.
  20. [00:34:28] <mfbot> [[citation]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation&diff=0&oldid=15307 * BenWest * (+22) added link to issues page in see also section.
  21. [00:34:44] <bewest> ok that's enough wiki action for me
  22. [00:34:48] <bewest> </rant>
  23. [00:35:15] <bewest> BobJonkman: have you checked the faq? I think this has been brought up before
  24. [00:35:59] <BobJonkman> I looked... The hCalendar wiki has grown a bit unruly. I couldn't find it there. Have you a link?
  25. [00:36:49] <bewest> hrm
  26. [00:37:17] <bewest> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-faq
  27. [00:37:21] <bewest> and scanning...
  28. [00:38:33] <BobJonkman> Me too. My in-the-wild is at http://sobac.com/records/tentsale/
  29. [00:47:51] <BobJonkman> Found something similar at http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming#Laughing_Squid
  30. [00:48:35] <bewest> hrm
  31. [00:48:55] <bewest> if you have any more energy, I'd suggest searching the mailing list archives
  32. [00:49:00] <bewest> I'm sure this has been asked before
  33. [00:49:27] <BobJonkman> I'll try putting something similar with RDATE, then see if Operator and http://feeds.technorati.com/events/http%3A//sobac.com/records/tentsale/ can grok it.
  34. [00:49:28] <bewest> if you find it, please add it to the faq, or at least rattle a stick around on the mailing list so someone else can add it to the faq
  35. [00:49:36] <bewest> cool
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  40. [01:31:10] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  41. [01:31:10] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  42. [01:48:45] <bewest> BobJonkman: did that work?
  43. [01:57:09] <bewest> tantek: do we have a definition of "issue" somwhere?
  44. [01:58:03] <tantek> no - do we really need one?
  45. [01:58:22] <tantek> it's basically something that somebody raises as what they *think* is a problem with a spec
  46. [01:58:26] <tantek> or a proposal/draft
  47. [01:58:30] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@cpe-76-189-108-141.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  48. [01:58:46] <tantek> and yeah, i agree with your email, assertion of random top-down theoretical requirements are next to useless
  49. [01:58:58] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aay032.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  50. [01:59:13] <tantek> they must be based in at *least* the microformats principles, *or* example per the process.
  51. [01:59:31] <tantek> otherwise they are imminently ignorable as "asserted theoretical requirements"
  52. [02:00:15] <tantek> in fact, any issues that lack citation of real world examples (with URL) can also be categorized as "theoretical issues" at the bottom of the respective issues page, thus lowering their priority below all the other "real world" issues.
  53. [02:00:32] <tantek> theoreticians/academics may hate it, but that's our focus. real world first. theoretical if we get around to it.
  54. [02:03:06] <bewest> hmmm
  55. [02:03:26] <bewest> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html I like these kinds of issues
  56. [02:03:39] <bewest> they help requirements emerge in a way similar to our process
  57. [02:04:34] <bewest> and they are all phrased as questions
  58. [02:05:50] <bewest> and they make the process of iteration clear
  59. [02:06:02] <bewest> I would prefer something similar more similar to this than our current brainstorming process
  60. [02:06:49] <bewest> it might give academics having a hard time adjust to the process a bit more framework to latch onto
  61. [02:17:21] <hax> haha! i've conquered irssi's window usage!
  62. [02:17:35] * hax now has #microformats stuck in a 'container' for continuous watching
  63. [02:20:21] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) Quit ("Leaving...")
  64. [02:21:02] <hax> bewest: this sumo thing is exactly what i needed
  65. [02:21:05] <hax> bewest: like, precisely
  66. [02:21:09] <bewest> hax: don't forget to join the mailing list
  67. [02:21:14] <hax> bewest: i should do that
  68. [02:21:23] <bewest> hax: I think mkaply raised some issues with the sumo thing
  69. [02:21:45] <bewest> hax: IIRC there was some limiting feature of the sumo thing
  70. [02:22:46] <hax> bewest: when school calms down again, i'm gonna have to get serious about all this
  71. [02:23:09] <hax> i see so much stuff that needs doing
  72. [02:23:09] <hax> heh
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  76. [03:15:31] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aay032.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  77. [03:16:06] <hax> i wonder if it's appropriate to use one of those neat hcard icons for linking to a vcard
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  81. [03:37:16] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15308 * ManuSporny * (+143) Adding file-format exploratory discussion page
  82. [03:39:37] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15309 * ManuSporny * (+13) Exploratory Discussions -
  83. [03:39:58] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15310 * ManuSporny * (-1) Exploratory Discussions -
  84. [04:13:54] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  86. [04:16:20] <mfbot> [[citation-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-issues&diff=0&oldid=15311 * ThomasBreuel * (-3216) Issues -
  87. [04:17:16] <mfbot> [[citation-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-issues&diff=0&oldid=15312 * ThomasBreuel * (+135) Issues -
  88. [04:20:09] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  89. [04:20:09] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  90. [04:22:22] <mfbot> [[file-format-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/file-format-examples * ManuSporny * (+2608) Created file format examples page (according to template)
  91. [04:32:34] * Xtof (n=christop@ATuileries-152-1-8-110.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit ()
  92. [04:33:19] <mfbot> [[file-format-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=file-format-examples&diff=0&oldid=15313 * ManuSporny * (+206) Real-World Examples -
  93. [04:47:07] <danja> ya fuck monty, i gotta doiot
  94. [04:48:37] <danja> drunkard in seattlke
  95. [04:49:06] <danja> damn yanks
  96. [04:49:41] <danja> innit
  97. [04:51:42] <BobJonkman> bewest: After a break for dinner I think I've finally got RDATE working. The technorati/event link recognizes it (generates a .ics file with RDATE), although neither Operator nor Tails seems to know what to do with it.
  98. [04:52:52] * danja realizez alcoholism no bad
  99. [04:53:17] <bewest> BobJonkman: cool
  100. [04:53:28] <bewest> BobJonkman: you might just ask mkaply when he's around if operator supports rdate
  101. [04:53:34] <BobJonkman> Will do.
  102. [04:55:12] <danja> BobJ - can you please wire www-archive with your findings
  103. [04:56:03] <danja> calendar's a bitch
  104. [05:01:09] * bear42 (n=bear@pool-72-78-159-129.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  105. [05:05:31] <mfbot> [[file-format-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=file-format-examples&diff=0&oldid=15314 * ManuSporny * (+168) Real-World Examples -
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  107. [05:08:52] <mfbot> [[file-format-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=file-format-examples&diff=0&oldid=15315 * ManuSporny * (+849) Other attempts to solve The Problem -
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  112. [05:48:22] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  113. [05:48:22] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  119. [08:22:50] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  120. [08:30:30] <mfbot> [[file-format-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=file-format-examples&diff=0&oldid=15316 * AndyMabbett * (+20) See Also - rel-enclosure
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  124. [08:53:24] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  132. [09:21:33] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=15317 * AndyMabbett * (+171) Issues - Why is "geo" still a draft?
  133. [09:25:55] <mfbot> [[firefox-extensions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=15318 * AndyMabbett * (-80) Operator - update
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  139. [11:14:15] <bretonslivka> Microformats!
  140. [11:14:45] <mfbot> [[firefox-extensions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=15319 * AndyMabbett * (-3) Operator - tweak
  141. [11:16:36] <mfbot> [[firefox-extensions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=15320 * AndyMabbett * (+10) Web Cards - was 404
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  143. [11:24:23] <bretonslivka> ahoy?
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  145. [11:42:28] * JMulder_ is now known as JMulder
  146. [11:53:53] <mfbot> [[events/2007-04-18-web-2-expo-dinner]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-04-18-web-2-expo-dinner&diff=0&oldid=15321 * Adactio * (+30) Who -
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  148. [12:17:10] <mfbot> [[adr-poll]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/adr-poll * AndyMabbett * (+1120)
  149. [12:18:16] <mfbot> [[adr-poll]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr-poll&diff=0&oldid=15322 * AndyMabbett * (+28) General comments
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  151. [12:23:47] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  154. [12:30:46] * mkaply (n=mkaply@user-12lml8q.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  155. [12:30:47] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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  159. [12:35:42] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  161. [12:48:38] <mfbot> [[geo-profile]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/geo-profile * AndyMabbett * (+1416) first draft
  162. [12:50:27] * cgriego (n=cgriego@cpe-76-183-60-189.tx.res.rr.com) Quit ()
  163. [12:51:20] <mfbot> [[geo-profile]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-profile&diff=0&oldid=15323 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Geo Profile - cap
  164. [12:53:01] <mfbot> [[geo-profile]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo-profile&diff=0&oldid=15324 * AndyMabbett * (+57) warning
  165. [12:54:32] <mfbot> [[glossary]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15325 * AndyMabbett * (+13) XMDP
  166. [12:57:08] <mfbot> [[glossary]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15326 * AndyMabbett * (+83) XMDP
  167. [12:58:39] <mfbot> [[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15327 * AndyMabbett * (+23) '''
  168. [12:59:00] <mfbot> [[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15328 * AndyMabbett * (+0) '''
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  172. [13:11:22] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
  173. [13:16:21] <mfbot> [[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15329 * AndyMabbett * (+100) italics
  174. [13:17:08] <mfbot> [[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=15330 * AndyMabbett * (+4) ''
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  179. [14:35:02] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  182. [14:51:30] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  183. [14:51:30] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  184. [14:54:58] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-206-125-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  185. [14:54:59] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
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  188. [15:18:07] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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  194. [15:33:14] <jibot> tylerr is Tyler Roehmholdt and involves himself in the HTML WG and WaSP-related advocacy.
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  196. [15:34:39] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15331 * ManuSporny * (+31) Exploratory Discussions -
  197. [15:35:36] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15332 * ManuSporny * (+16) Exploratory Discussions -
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  204. [15:55:29] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
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  206. [15:58:43] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  213. [16:11:51] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  220. [16:32:24] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  229. [16:56:00] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  234. [17:15:31] <jibot> ddfreyne is nothing
  235. [17:15:42] <ddfreyne> !forgetme
  236. [17:16:01] <ddfreyne> whatever… I don't remember how to make jibot forget me, and jibot never forgets me anyway
  237. [17:16:30] <ddfreyne> Quick question… why do we need "permalinks"?
  238. [17:16:45] <ddfreyne> As in… should the URL of a given page/article/post/entry not be enough on its own?
  239. [17:17:06] <factoryjoe> what if it's contained in something else?
  240. [17:17:12] <factoryjoe> like in an RSS feed?
  241. [17:17:16] <factoryjoe> or in a blog homepage?
  242. [17:17:22] <factoryjoe> you need a place to go find the definitive source of the data
  243. [17:17:32] <factoryjoe> i.e. the "permanent link"
  244. [17:18:03] <ddfreyne> Hmm, good point
  245. [17:18:08] <ddfreyne> seems to be abused quite often though
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  247. [17:18:26] <ddfreyne> on an individual blog post page, there's no point in having a "permalink" link which simply leads back to the original page
  248. [17:18:47] <ddfreyne> Also, wouldn't it be more appropriate to call it a "perma-URL" instead?
  249. [17:20:36] <factoryjoe> convention rules in this case
  250. [17:20:54] <factoryjoe> and it's not redundant on the individual page, since it's self-referential
  251. [17:21:05] <factoryjoe> it's a way of pointing to oneself as the definitive URL for the data
  252. [17:21:16] <factoryjoe> like, "here i am, you're at the endpoint, you found me"
  253. [17:21:42] <ddfreyne> Ah, hm.
  254. [17:22:57] <ddfreyne> Thanks, I'm convinced.
  255. [17:25:53] <factoryjoe> heh nice
  256. [17:25:54] <factoryjoe> ;)
  257. [17:26:02] <factoryjoe> also check out the discussion about authoritative hcards
  258. [17:26:22] <factoryjoe> http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2007-February/008652.html
  259. [17:28:14] <ddfreyne> oh, very interesting
  260. [17:30:00] <ddfreyne> Cleaning up my site's HTML and adding some more microformat stuff
  261. [17:30:28] <ddfreyne> Hm…  how compatible are microformats with HTML5?
  262. [17:30:47] <factoryjoe> does html5 exist?
  263. [17:31:06] <factoryjoe> i would imagine, very compatible, especially with today's xhtml browsers
  264. [17:31:49] <ddfreyne> well… it's a WIP and not widely used yet… but it introduces some nice new elements which may be useful
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  266. [17:33:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  267. [17:33:53] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  268. [17:35:21] <factoryjoe> are they necessary?
  269. [17:35:31] <factoryjoe> i see firefox 3 supports xforms
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  272. [17:39:22] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  280. [18:20:37] <mfbot> [[User:BeUssery]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:BeUssery * BeUssery * (+8)
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  282. [18:31:29] <mfbot> [[picoformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=15333 * Chris Messina * (+25) adding iGTD syntax
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  299. [19:27:52] <jibot> davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
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  301. [19:36:02] <mfbot> [[User talk:BeUssery]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:BeUssery * AndyMabbett * (+70) Welcome!
  302. [19:36:28] <mfbot> [[picoformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=15334 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Documented Syntaxes - alphabeticise
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  304. [20:07:27] <bewes1> herm
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  312. [21:16:33] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=15335 * AndyMabbett * (+222) Geo Successes - Wikipedia-NL
  313. [21:17:19] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=15336 * AndyMabbett * (+9) Geo Successes - tweak
  314. [21:19:39] <bewes1> tantek, kingryan: I think this business of proposing movements of microformats from draft to full spec is a form of top-down requirements/decision making is it not? the idea that a microformat should represent some kind of artificial state is contrary to the emergent design of microformats: microformats are required to solve demonstrated problems in the web publishing space and the state a given microformat is in is a property of the adoption and publi
  315. [21:20:30] <mfbot> [[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=15337 * AndyMabbett * (+213) Examples in the wild - Wikipedia-NL
  316. [21:24:25] * dydimustk (n=tk@192.231.160.6) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  317. [21:24:30] <tantek> bewest - it's a stronger statement than that I think.
  318. [21:24:53] <tantek> such different states indicate how much the community believes in the stability vs. malleability of the given format.
  319. [21:25:05] <tantek> how well tested vs. experimental it is etc.
  320. [21:25:31] <tantek> it's very different that the typical "top-down requirements" type stuff that usually goes on *before* a spec is written
  321. [21:25:41] <bewes1> ok I see some value there
  322. [21:25:56] <bewes1> but why not define a metric for that
  323. [21:26:14] <bewes1> we have powerful search engines and analysis tools at our disposal
  324. [21:26:23] <tantek> you're asking for a reason against a negative?
  325. [21:26:38] <bewes1> hmmm
  326. [21:26:43] * bewes1 treads carefully
  327. [21:27:13] <tantek> the short answer for most "why not" questions is, because there are plenty of things to do, and not enough people to do them (and do them reasonably well)
  328. [21:27:21] <mfbot> [[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=15338 * AndyMabbett * (+288) Examples in the wild - Wikpedia-DE
  329. [21:27:36] <bewes1> on what basis, then, does who declare a given format's "official" status?
  330. [21:28:02] <tantek> so bewest, perhaps add it to your section on the to-do page, help figure out qualitative/quantitative differences that can be used to assert what state a spec should be in
  331. [21:28:18] <bewes1> fair enough
  332. [21:29:01] <tantek> in short, anyone that asks "why not" essentially volunteers to help look into how to solve the problem/question (not necessarily answering it themselves - because they might not be the right person to answer it - but at least drive the process of how to figure out an answer)
  333. [21:29:28] <bewes1> yes
  334. [21:29:47] <tantek> and see previous writings about interoperable implementations etc.
  335. [21:30:40] <tantek> for some background on this (I'm not proposing adopting *everything* they do, but worth reading to get some context), take a look at how both W3C and IETF designate the different "states" of specs
  336. [21:33:42] <bewes1> yeah, I've looked through things a bit
  337. [21:34:20] <bewes1> there is some instrumentation, such as last calls and a measurement of interoperable implementations before blessing a spec, but essentially that's what it is
  338. [21:34:26] <bewes1> a blessing
  339. [21:34:47] <bewes1> it's somewhat mythical and there's room to be more scientific, per GMPG principles
  340. [21:36:25] <kingryan> bewes1: afaict, w3c also requires a test suite
  341. [21:38:09] <bewes1> yes a test suite is a good component
  342. [21:39:17] <tommorris> My new blog now has hAtom and rel-enclosure set up.
  343. [21:39:25] <tommorris> http://tom.opiumfield.com/blog/
  344. [21:39:45] * ajturner (n=ajturner@c-68-42-68-205.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has left #microformats
  345. [21:41:33] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=15339 * BenWest * (+701) Ben West (bewest) - add an interest in quantitative analysis wrt deployment issues
  346. [21:42:47] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  347. [21:44:42] <hober> tommorris: http://tom.opiumfield.com/blog/2007/04/08 and http://tom.opiumfield.com/blog/2007/04/06 give me the YSOD
  348. [21:45:04] <tommorris> YSOD?
  349. [21:45:28] <hober> yellow screen of death
  350. [21:46:03] <hober> (xml parse error in gecko)
  351. [21:46:21] <tommorris> What, for the Atom or for the pages themselves?
  352. [21:46:28] <hober> the pages themselves
  353. [21:46:37] <tommorris> That's odd, they're working for me in Firefox.
  354. [21:47:36] <tommorris> Which version of FF/Gecko are you using?
  355. [21:47:54] <hober> oddly enough, restarting firefox made it go away
  356. [21:48:11] <hober> FF2.0.0.3/Mac
  357. [21:48:41] <tommorris> Ah, got it - I'm using the border attribute on the img element, which is deprecated in XHTML
  358. [21:49:02] <AGraf``> tommorris: thats not a problem
  359. [21:49:06] <AGraf``> its deprecated, not removed
  360. [21:49:12] <AGraf``> and there is not YSOD
  361. [21:49:22] <AGraf``> more importantly, you are serving it as <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
  362. [21:49:29] <AGraf``> which doesn't trigger the xml parser
  363. [21:49:42] <AGraf``> so there wouldnt be a YSOD even if the document had errors
  364. [21:50:07] * hober chalks it up to a long-running Firefox that got into a weird state
  365. [21:50:09] <AGraf``> its probably a dead/not working extension with hobers installation
  366. [21:50:15] <AGraf``> probably :>
  367. [21:50:22] <tommorris> I'm not serving it as that - that's just what the meta tag says. :)
  368. [21:50:32] <AGraf``> oh ok
  369. [21:50:48] <AGraf``> you should change it, then, to reflect what you are actually serving
  370. [21:51:08] <AGraf``> and my FF does stuff like that too after a few days
  371. [21:51:28] <tommorris> Yep, I have a script that negotiates MIME type. Just didn't echo out the right META tag
  372. [21:52:04] <AGraf``> cool
  373. [21:54:20] <tommorris> Is there a generic element I can use to push out invisible content?
  374. [21:54:35] <AGraf``> in html?
  375. [21:54:43] <AGraf``> comments :>
  376. [21:54:51] <AGraf``> you should *never* push out invisible content
  377. [21:55:04] <tommorris> display: none; ...
  378. [21:55:22] <AGraf``> that means essentially you are serving machines semantical information that a human user does not see
  379. [21:55:25] <AGraf``> which is bad
  380. [21:55:53] <tommorris> Just trying to add the date and time to my hAtom, but it's irrelevant for my blog.
  381. [21:56:52] <AGraf``> well, use the abbr design pattern and just print out some human readable time/date instead
  382. [21:58:07] <tommorris> I'm just gonna do <abbr class="published" title="isodate" />
  383. [21:58:57] <AGraf``> hm
  384. [21:58:59] <AGraf``> try it :)
  385. [21:59:20] <hober> using xml-empty-element syntax for abbr is probably not a good idea
  386. [21:59:36] <AGraf``> *probably* not
  387. [21:59:52] <AGraf``> better use display: none;
  388. [21:59:53] <tommorris> Or I could have <a href="{permalink}" class="bookmark updated" title="{date}">{permalink image}</a>
  389. [22:00:05] <AGraf``> although, as a designer, i really encourage you not to
  390. [22:00:29] <hober> tommorris: no, the abbr design pattern requires the use of abbr
  391. [22:00:35] <AGraf``> that doesnt work
  392. [22:00:40] <AGraf``> as hober said...
  393. [22:03:58] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-248be030da65bb25) Quit ("Leaving")
  394. [22:05:50] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15340 * StanfordSoap * (+136) New Examples -
  395. [22:07:16] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15341 * StanfordSoap * (+0) New Examples -
  396. [22:08:02] <mfbot> [[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=15342 * AndyMabbett * (-99) Examples in the wild - fix
  397. [22:09:48] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15343 * AndyMabbett * (+58) move last to problem section
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  400. [22:14:42] * danja (n=danja@65.105.144.196.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
  401. [22:14:43] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  402. [22:21:03] * punter (n=punter@ipa136.31.91.tellas.gr) has joined #microformats
  403. [22:33:18] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-033.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  404. [22:34:35] * danja (n=danja@65.105.144.196.ptr.us.xo.net) Quit ()
  405. [22:35:02] * punter (n=punter@ipa136.31.91.tellas.gr) Quit ()
  406. [22:35:13] <tommorris> Putting it in to the 'a' element's title doesn't work. Bugger.
  407. [22:35:35] <AGraf``> hober said it already
  408. [22:35:47] <AGraf``> the abbr design pattern requires... well... <abbr>
  409. [22:38:04] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) has joined #microformats
  410. [22:38:55] <tommorris> It also doesn't seem to work if you have contentless abbr. Grr.
  411. [22:43:06] * dydimustk (n=tk@c-66-41-249-143.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  412. [22:43:53] <AGraf``> because you have to abbreviate something
  413. [22:44:53] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aay032.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  414. [23:04:30] * ianbicking is now known as ianb|afk
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  416. [23:09:35] * bear (n=bear@pool-72-78-6-208.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  417. [23:09:43] * bear42 is now known as bear
  418. [23:13:56] * danja (n=danja@65.105.144.196.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
  419. [23:13:56] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  420. [23:14:45] * danja (n=danja@65.105.144.196.ptr.us.xo.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  421. [23:16:22] * dydimust` (n=tk@c-66-41-249-143.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  422. [23:17:28] * dydimustk (n=tk@c-66-41-249-143.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  423. [23:17:45] * dydimust` is now known as dydimustk
  424. [23:28:52] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  425. [23:29:30] * danja (n=danja@65.105.144.196.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
  426. [23:29:30] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  427. [23:36:44] * danja_ (n=danja@65.105.144.196.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
  428. [23:37:33] * danja_ (n=danja@65.105.144.196.ptr.us.xo.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  429. [23:45:43] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508]")
  430. [23:53:20] * danja (n=danja@65.105.144.196.ptr.us.xo.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  431. [23:54:14] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://gmachina.com - gaming feeds in bulk")
  432. [23:54:55] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aay032.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.