IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-05-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:01:36] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106001346fa7d6d.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("You cannot stop the fofofo!")
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  3. [00:33:39] * ctb_ (i=ctb@opus.bloomcounty.org) has joined #microformats
  4. [00:36:28] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=16487 * ChrisBrentano * (+43)
  5. [00:40:39] <mfbot> [[User:ChrisBrentano]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:ChrisBrentano * ChrisBrentano * (+125)
  6. [00:40:50] <ctb_> :)
  7. [00:41:24] <ctb_> Wow, that's cool that the bot picks up on Wiki edits.
  8. [00:43:41] * factoryjoe (n=factoryj@dsl081-245-070.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  9. [00:46:39] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) has joined #microformats
  10. [00:49:20] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@host217-42-137-177.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) Quit ("goodbye, farewell, auf Wiedersehen")
  11. [00:57:08] * logan-koester (n=Logan@c-24-34-214-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  12. [01:04:19] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  13. [01:06:58] <factoryjoe> tantek: you around?
  14. [01:09:38] <factoryjoe> KevinMarks: ping
  15. [01:10:12] <KevinMarks> hi
  16. [01:13:16] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=16488 * Chris Messina * (+166) Added Twitter
  17. [01:13:23] <factoryjoe> hey
  18. [01:13:27] <mfbot> [[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=16489 * Drago516 * (-112) removed my completed todo
  19. [01:13:54] <factoryjoe> ok
  20. [01:14:02] <factoryjoe> we're having issues w/ hAtom + hCard on Twitter
  21. [01:14:27] <tantek> URL PLZ
  22. [01:14:53] <factoryjoe> http://twitter.com/public_timeline
  23. [01:14:59] <factoryjoe> like, any twitter URL!
  24. [01:15:00] <factoryjoe> ;)
  25. [01:15:16] * logankoester (n=Logan@c-24-34-214-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  26. [01:16:31] <KevinMarks> i see no hcards
  27. [01:17:43] <factoryjoe> ?
  28. [01:17:45] <factoryjoe> oh
  29. [01:17:46] <factoryjoe> one sec
  30. [01:17:53] <factoryjoe> well
  31. [01:18:02] <factoryjoe> check on your profile page
  32. [01:18:03] <factoryjoe> the sidebar
  33. [01:18:06] <factoryjoe> it's all hcards
  34. [01:18:12] <factoryjoe> but he had to use an abbr for fn
  35. [01:18:59] <KevinMarks> no hcards in the hatom?
  36. [01:20:16] * logan-koester (n=Logan@c-24-34-214-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  37. [01:20:23] <factoryjoe> ok
  38. [01:20:29] <factoryjoe> the hcards will be deployed shortly
  39. [01:20:33] <factoryjoe> based on code i gave alex
  40. [01:20:39] <factoryjoe> unfortunately he's done for the night
  41. [01:20:43] <factoryjoe> but if we can debug it
  42. [01:20:47] <factoryjoe> he can fix it tomorrow
  43. [01:21:21] <KevinMarks> the hCrad on my page should be bigger
  44. [01:21:49] <KevinMarks> it shoudl be an <author> and should encompass the bio, location and web
  45. [01:21:59] <KevinMarks> and web should have rel="me" on
  46. [01:23:33] <KevinMarks> oh hang on
  47. [01:23:57] <KevinMarks> it does, I'll shut up
  48. [01:24:15] <factoryjoe> ;)
  49. [01:24:19] <factoryjoe> yes, author is being added
  50. [01:24:22] <factoryjoe> question
  51. [01:24:26] <KevinMarks> the <adr> is invalid, no?
  52. [01:24:28] <factoryjoe> should author and vcard be on the same level?
  53. [01:24:31] <factoryjoe> where/
  54. [01:25:50] * logankoester (n=Logan@c-24-34-214-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  55. [01:26:40] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-9210b312909b5c8f) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  56. [01:28:52] <tantek> yes author vcard can be on same element
  57. [01:28:54] <tantek> even should be
  58. [01:30:31] <factoryjoe> ok
  59. [01:30:37] <factoryjoe> that's what i thought
  60. [01:30:37] <factoryjoe> now
  61. [01:30:42] <factoryjoe> what about FN and images?
  62. [01:30:50] <factoryjoe> would you use the title attr or alt?
  63. [01:36:48] <tantek> per hcard-parsing, alt on img is used for non URL properties
  64. [01:39:03] * gusaus is now known as gusaus|out
  65. [01:42:50] <b3x_> Hi guys... Well, I think it's good time to join the conversation
  66. [01:43:21] <b3x_> This is Wojciech Zajac from XHTMLized, I'm the author of original Twitter markup
  67. [01:44:34] <b3x_> I think if we want to improve quality, tables are not good there and I'd like to see something like: <ol><li><cite></cite><q></q></li></ol> with hcard and hentry
  68. [01:44:59] <tantek> indeed
  69. [01:45:21] <tantek> welcome Wojciech!
  70. [01:45:57] <b3x_> At this moment I suggest stop trying to implement it in this way and ask about change bigger part of code
  71. [01:46:28] <b3x_> At the beginning tables were reasonable but then some things changed and now they are not. :)
  72. [01:49:00] * Dave (i=dcf5b383@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-cfd7c8d3f998ea5c) has joined #microformats
  73. [01:55:35] * Dave (i=dcf5b383@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-cfd7c8d3f998ea5c) Quit ("CGI:IRC")
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  76. [02:08:00] <factoryjoe> b3x_: are you still working w/ twitter?
  77. [02:10:44] <b3x_> I was doing first versions as the coder from xhtmlized.com
  78. [02:12:07] <factoryjoe> ah
  79. [02:12:10] <factoryjoe> but not anymore?
  80. [02:12:14] <factoryjoe> tantek: still there?
  81. [02:14:06] <b3x_> well, it still is basing on our code, but our job is only to convert graphics to xhtml/css/js so after some revisions I was not involved in further editing
  82. [02:15:23] <factoryjoe> i see
  83. [02:15:27] <factoryjoe> where are you based?
  84. [02:15:40] <b3x_> Poland.
  85. [02:15:53] <b3x_> I mean
  86. [02:16:40] <factoryjoe> cool
  87. [02:16:51] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  88. [02:22:48] * jibot (n=jibot@64.159.77.114) has joined #microformats
  89. [02:23:07] <factoryjoe> i think i'll write up the microformats issue on the twitter-dev list
  90. [02:28:58] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-187-033.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  91. [02:29:58] <b3x_> I'm leaving now. Nice to meet you, factoryjoe
  92. [02:30:06] <factoryjoe> ditto
  93. [02:30:55] <b3x_> [d]
  94. [02:31:44] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) Quit (Shutting Down)
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  96. [02:49:44] <factoryjoe> anyone here?
  97. [02:50:03] <factoryjoe> trying to get to the bottom of using an img's alt value as an FN
  98. [02:50:28] <cgriego> hey Chris
  99. [02:50:32] <factoryjoe> hey
  100. [02:50:57] <cgriego> despite my objections, there's still no parsing rules for getting anything from an im'g alt text
  101. [02:51:25] <factoryjoe> http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/
  102. [02:51:29] <factoryjoe> oops
  103. [02:51:30] <factoryjoe> wtf
  104. [02:51:38] <factoryjoe> my firefox is screwed up
  105. [02:51:54] * alexknowshtml (n=alexknow@c-68-32-50-201.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  106. [02:52:06] <factoryjoe> http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2005-December/002410.html
  107. [02:52:07] <factoryjoe> hey alexknowshtml
  108. [02:52:19] <cgriego> I'd suggest <a href="#" class="url"><abbr class="fn" title="Name"><img class="photo" src="#" alt="..." /></abbr></a>
  109. [02:52:26] <alexknowshtml> hey hey
  110. [02:52:58] <alexknowshtml> so this looks like an old bit that got lost along the way
  111. [02:53:10] <factoryjoe> For properties with values NOT of type URL, URI, or UID, when the element for a property is:
  112. [02:53:11] <factoryjoe> * <img alt> OR <area alt> : use the value of the 'alt' attribute.
  113. [02:53:23] <cgriego> well with that one, <address class="vcard"><abbr title="Name" class="fn"><img class="photo" src="#" alt="Name" /></abbr></address>
  114. [02:53:27] <factoryjoe> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#more_semantic_exceptions
  115. [02:53:33] <alexknowshtml> ok, so...
  116. [02:53:52] <factoryjoe> cgriego: really?!
  117. [02:53:53] <alexknowshtml> let me alter my local copy and see what happens :-)
  118. [02:53:56] <factoryjoe> that's what they had!
  119. [02:53:58] <factoryjoe> i told them to remove that
  120. [02:54:00] <factoryjoe> it didn't make sense
  121. [02:54:11] <factoryjoe> the abbr trick should work
  122. [02:54:15] <cgriego> ah, so that is documented. no parser I've seen supports grabbing img@alt
  123. [02:54:16] <factoryjoe> but seems like voodoo magic
  124. [02:54:20] <factoryjoe> ok
  125. [02:54:23] <factoryjoe> well that's a problem
  126. [02:54:27] <factoryjoe> we should add that to the spec page
  127. [02:54:42] <alexknowshtml> ok
  128. [02:54:49] <alexknowshtml> so to make sure I understand:
  129. [02:55:11] <alexknowshtml> the fn is coming from the title in the abbr
  130. [02:55:18] <alexknowshtml> not the alt in the img
  131. [02:55:34] <cgriego> correct
  132. [02:56:04] <factoryjoe> i didn't know that you could look in titles
  133. [02:56:14] <cgriego> you can if using the abbr tag
  134. [02:56:16] <alexknowshtml> son of a gun, that works perfect
  135. [02:56:20] <factoryjoe> yeah
  136. [02:56:21] <factoryjoe> fuck
  137. [02:56:26] <factoryjoe> thats what they had
  138. [02:56:31] <factoryjoe> i guess i didn't get the memo
  139. [02:56:38] <factoryjoe> that seems like an abuse of abbr
  140. [02:56:52] <alexknowshtml> it does, i agree
  141. [02:56:59] <cgriego> that's what the Web Standards Project said :)
  142. [02:57:10] <alexknowshtml> can you explain the "abbr" trick?
  143. [02:57:37] <cgriego> http://microformats.org/wiki/abbr-design-pattern
  144. [02:57:39] <factoryjoe> basically you get access to title b/c it's abbr
  145. [02:57:45] <alexknowshtml> gotcha
  146. [02:57:45] <factoryjoe> at least the values are readable
  147. [02:57:50] <factoryjoe> but that's what the ALT tag is fot
  148. [02:57:52] <factoryjoe> for
  149. [02:58:01] <factoryjoe> we can't just go hiding stuff in ABBR's
  150. [02:58:07] <alexknowshtml> well, here's the problem I see
  151. [02:58:22] <alexknowshtml> if you're hiding something like a date in an alt tag
  152. [02:58:26] <alexknowshtml> and a screen reader comes along
  153. [02:58:39] <alexknowshtml> (im sure im hardly the first person to bring this up)
  154. [02:58:55] <cgriego> alexknowshtml: http://www.webstandards.org/2007/04/27/haccessibility/
  155. [02:58:56] <alexknowshtml> but yeah, it seems like a bastardization of semantics
  156. [02:59:09] <factoryjoe> i've read the hAccessibility stuff
  157. [02:59:16] <alexknowshtml> ah, i knew id read that somewhere :-)
  158. [02:59:42] <cgriego> I side with using the datetime with dashes
  159. [02:59:48] <factoryjoe> yeah
  160. [02:59:53] * xdr_ (n=daverose@60-241-13-154.static.tpgi.com.au) Quit ()
  161. [02:59:53] <alexknowshtml> rather than ISO
  162. [03:00:00] <alexknowshtml> ?
  163. [03:00:31] <cgriego> ISO will allow you to use optional dashes
  164. [03:00:40] <alexknowshtml> that seems like a simple enough fix for the rare occasion that the alt tag is totally irrelevant to the image it's representing
  165. [03:01:26] <cgriego> 2007-05-07T22:01:00-06
  166. [03:01:29] <cgriego> valid ISO
  167. [03:01:55] <alexknowshtml> thats fairly readable
  168. [03:01:59] <factoryjoe> yeah
  169. [03:03:06] <cgriego> feel like I've been doing this all day, was playing with permeations of hReview earlier for a client project
  170. [03:03:18] <alexknowshtml> hah
  171. [03:03:26] <factoryjoe> heh
  172. [03:03:27] <factoryjoe> well
  173. [03:03:37] <factoryjoe> i think we should get a fix into operator
  174. [03:03:54] <factoryjoe> and add support for alt-attr parsing
  175. [03:04:52] <alexknowshtml> so the alt tag content is valid as per spec, just hasnt been documented well enough to make it into production
  176. [03:05:07] <alexknowshtml> thats....icky
  177. [03:05:11] <cgriego> agreed
  178. [03:05:29] * gusaus|out is now known as gusaus
  179. [03:08:49] <alexknowshtml> well glad that's settled. thanks!
  180. [03:10:39] <factoryjoe> i sent a msg to the list
  181. [03:11:12] <cgriego> my pleasure. so is weknowhtml working with Twitter or just acting as a concerned citizen?
  182. [03:11:29] <alexknowshtml> nah, i just <3 twitter andmicroformats
  183. [03:11:55] <cgriego> I can identify with that :D
  184. [03:12:28] <alexknowshtml> right on
  185. [03:20:22] <cgriego> whelp, logging off for the day. cya in cyberspace
  186. [03:20:32] <alexknowshtml> take it easy
  187. [03:21:03] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) Quit ()
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  193. [03:45:11] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  194. [03:45:11] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  195. [03:49:34] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-69-236-72-64.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) Quit (Client Quit)
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  201. [04:33:15] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  210. [06:07:50] <mfbot> [[implementations-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=16490 * ChristopheDucamp * (+970) [fr:sync'd]
  211. [06:08:46] <mfbot> [[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=16491 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1) Twitter -
  212. [06:11:07] <mfbot> [[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=16492 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) typo
  213. [06:13:38] <mfbot> [[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=16493 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) Twitter - typo
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  215. [06:22:15] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  216. [06:22:15] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  217. [06:34:16] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  218. [06:34:16] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  224. [06:56:21] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  229. [08:11:00] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  232. [08:28:24] <mfbot> [[implementations-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=16494 * StephaneGigandet * (+427) added ViaBloga rel-tag and hReview
  233. [08:30:20] <mfbot> [[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=16495 * StephaneGigandet * (+5) ViaBloga - fixed link
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  242. [09:39:55] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
  243. [10:01:10] <mfbot> [[Talk:posh]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Talk:posh&diff=0&oldid=16496 * DrewMcLellan * (+20) Misuse of microformats logo for ‘POSH’ bling -
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  249. [11:25:04] <mfbot> [[User talk:ChrisBrentano]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:ChrisBrentano * AndyMabbett * (+71) welcome!
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  255. [12:07:11] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  256. [12:18:18] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=16497 * ScottReynen * (+165) New Examples -
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  263. [12:46:16] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
  264. [12:59:18] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=16499 * Wojciech * (+50)
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  269. [13:41:31] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
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  276. [14:14:56] <mfbot> [[User:Wojciech]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Wojciech * Wojciech * (+107)
  277. [14:15:52] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=16501 * Wojciech * (-9)
  278. [14:16:28] <mfbot> [[audio-info-proposal]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-proposal&diff=0&oldid=16502 * ManuSporny * (+2) Duration -
  279. [14:24:34] <mfbot> [[User talk:Wojciech]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:Wojciech * AndyMabbett * (+71) Welcome!
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  283. [14:50:06] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  287. [14:53:04] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  290. [15:18:58] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=16503 * Tantek * (+1035) added Reporting Bugs section
  291. [15:20:19] <mfbot> [[put-it-on-the-wiki]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=put-it-on-the-wiki&diff=0&oldid=16504 * Tantek * (+328)
  292. [15:22:20] <mfbot> [[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=16505 * Tantek * (-288)
  293. [15:22:51] <mfbot> [[hresume-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=16506 * BenDodson * (+113) New Examples -
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  296. [15:30:17] <mfbot> [[User:BenDodson]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:BenDodson * BenDodson * (+803)
  297. [15:33:54] <jnewland> hey all
  298. [15:34:45] <jnewland> i'm trying to hentry up my comments on my blog, and am either missing something or found a bug in the ruby 'mofo' library
  299. [15:34:59] <jnewland> anyone have a sec to take a look?
  300. [15:35:06] <briansuda> sure, do you have a link?
  301. [15:35:21] <jnewland> yeah
  302. [15:35:24] <mfbot> [[put-it-on-the-wiki]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=put-it-on-the-wiki&diff=0&oldid=16507 * Tantek * (+64)
  303. [15:35:24] <jnewland> http://soylentfoo.jnewland.com/articles/2007/03/27/capazon-capistrano-meets-amazon-ec2#comments
  304. [15:36:06] <jnewland> mofo throws an InvalidMicroformat exception when parsing that page
  305. [15:37:26] <briansuda> according to the hAtom->atom converter it works
  306. [15:37:27] <briansuda> feed://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsoylentfoo.jnewland.com%2Farticles%2F2007%2F03%2F27%2Fcapazon-capistrano-meets-amazon-ec2%23comments&ctype=application%2Fxml&tidy=yes
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  308. [15:37:37] <briansuda> so the issue looks like it might be mofo
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  310. [15:38:25] <jnewland> briansuda: thanks
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  312. [15:38:39] <jnewland> didn't know of that converter either
  313. [15:39:05] <briansuda> i'm not 100% there isn't an issue with hAtom->atom, it might not be throwing an error, even though one is present, so double check the output is what you expect
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  316. [15:57:35] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  327. [16:05:19] <tantek> jnewland, could you note the bug and URL of test case under the "mofo" entry on the implementations page?
  328. [16:05:30] <jnewland> tantek: willdo
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  348. [17:07:04] <jibot> ddfreyne is nothing
  349. [17:07:22] * iand (n=iand@89.192.29.171) has joined #microformats
  350. [17:07:22] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  354. [17:16:50] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  362. [17:32:04] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=16508 * TatWee * (+17) hCard -
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  369. [17:57:01] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  370. [17:57:09] <McNulty> evening
  371. [17:57:53] <McNulty> Is there a way I can mark up a phone number that starts +44 (0) 7967 xxxxxx without the 0 being in the tel? Using value maybe?
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  376. [18:25:24] <KevinMarks> have any of you GTD fans thought about microformats and GTD?
  377. [18:26:17] <mfbot> [[mailing-lists]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&diff=0&oldid=16509 * Tantek * (+669) created subheads for specific guidelines for easier citing, added ask for real world examples & URLs to examples
  378. [18:27:24] <tantek> KevinMarks, I'd suggest that you start to implement a GTD system yourself first rather than thinking about how you might improve such a system with microformats. In otherwords, get some real world GTD experience first ;)
  379. [18:27:45] * cruster (n=cruster@nut37.times.sk) has left #microformats
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  381. [18:28:22] <KevinMarks> I have some T, and it doesn't work for me 'cso the tools get on my nevers
  382. [18:28:25] <KevinMarks> nerves
  383. [18:28:31] * briansuda (n=briansud@bokd003.rhi.hi.is) has joined #microformats
  384. [18:28:31] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
  385. [18:28:31] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  386. [18:28:31] <KevinMarks> I'm wondering if you have done it
  387. [18:29:11] <KevinMarks> I have kGTD set up
  388. [18:29:25] <KevinMarks> paper versiosn clearly don't suit me
  389. [18:29:43] <KevinMarks> and I haven't seena web tool I like
  390. [18:30:37] <KevinMarks> I'm in a GTD seminar, watching the lecturer contort gmail to handle it for her too
  391. [18:31:13] * briansuda (n=briansud@bokd003.rhi.hi.is) Quit (Client Quit)
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  394. [18:31:56] <bewest> KevinMarks: wouldn't a lightweight user interface to an atom store do the job?
  395. [18:32:11] * mattis1 (n=mattis^@p54BD79CA.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  396. [18:34:00] <KevinMarks> what i see is a lot fo tools that half work, and no good way fo moving stuff between them
  397. [18:34:18] <Prometheus^> if I have a blog, would hAtom be the correct microformat for each of the blog items?
  398. [18:34:41] <KevinMarks> yes
  399. [18:34:47] <Prometheus^> alright, thanks :)
  400. [18:35:03] <tantek> KevinMarks, starting with a paper system is actually not a bad idea for handling a lot of it
  401. [18:35:22] <tantek> one of the GTD rules is the fewer inboxes you can get away with the better
  402. [18:35:43] <tantek> my corollary: the simpler/fewer tools you can get away with the better
  403. [18:36:03] <tantek> the next step up from "just paper" is "just paper plus a plain text file"
  404. [18:36:23] <tantek> and use the plain text editor of your choice (I currently use BBEdit for my GTD plain text files)
  405. [18:36:49] <KevinMarks> I know paper won't work for me
  406. [18:37:01] <KevinMarks> except for bills at home
  407. [18:37:08] <tantek> that's not the point - you do receive paper mail right?
  408. [18:37:16] <KevinMarks> nope
  409. [18:37:23] <tantek> you have to have at least *some* form of minimal paper system
  410. [18:37:29] <KevinMarks> I don't even know where my paper mailbox is at work
  411. [18:37:41] <tantek> i mean across contexts
  412. [18:37:43] <tantek> not just work
  413. [18:37:48] <KevinMarks> only paper mail I get at home is bills and junk
  414. [18:37:59] <KevinMarks> which is a fairly fast filter
  415. [18:38:05] <tantek> greeting cards? invitations?
  416. [18:38:14] <tantek> personal letters?
  417. [18:38:17] <KevinMarks> apart from al the junk thta pretends to be mortgages
  418. [18:38:29] <KevinMarks> maybe one a month
  419. [18:38:37] <KevinMarks> nothing I need a system for
  420. [18:38:49] <bewest> yeah, I use plain text files more and more
  421. [18:38:59] <tantek> i'm not sure the "nothing I need a system for" is actually accurate
  422. [18:39:07] <tantek> depends on what you mean by need
  423. [18:39:29] <tantek> if a system helps you spend 50% less time on such things, even if that savings is only once a month, then wouldn't you still want to use that system?
  424. [18:40:06] <KevinMarks> no, thats optimizing the wrong thing
  425. [18:40:12] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit ("goodbye, farewell, auf Wiedersehen")
  426. [18:40:22] <KevinMarks> I'm fine with how my paper stuff works; I don't have a problem there
  427. [18:40:39] <KevinMarks> but that is because I have removed paper form my life except for books and bills
  428. [18:41:45] <tantek> it's not optimizing the wrong thing, because it's the same system
  429. [18:42:24] <tantek> by using the same system for frequent things and infrequent things, you don't have to "think" about *which* system to use when
  430. [18:42:52] <KevinMarks> a big stack of paper in my inbox that I look at once a week works fro bills at home
  431. [18:42:55] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) Quit ()
  432. [18:43:03] <tantek> the CS analogy perhaps relates to a processor code cache reuse
  433. [18:43:11] <KevinMarks> it will not work for work-related stuff, which lives on my laptop
  434. [18:43:22] <tantek> you don't want data (even infrequent data) to cause a code cache flush
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  436. [18:47:09] <mfbot> [[mailing-lists]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&diff=0&oldid=16510 * Tantek * (+200)
  437. [18:47:57] <tantek> KevinMarks, think of it as more a "way of thinking about incoming stuff and tasks" rather than a specific system per se.
  438. [18:48:09] <KevinMarks> http://www.davidco.com/coaches_corner/Kelly_Forrister/article78.html
  439. [18:48:24] <KevinMarks> right, I am getting that
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  441. [18:49:04] <tantek> obviously the specific actions you take to handle a paper piece of mail and an email are different, but by keeping the way of thinking about them as similar as possible, the net cognitive load for doing both types of tasks is lowered.
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  443. [18:51:02] <tantek> interesting article. that won't work for me because the network is inherently unreliable (or slow) and I need to get things done independent of network availability.
  444. [18:51:40] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=16511 * Tantek * (-17) Reverted edit of TatWee, changed back to last version by JamesCraig
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  446. [18:52:42] <KevinMarks> right; thats why kGTD is attractive, 'cos reviewing it can be done on the train
  447. [18:53:23] * bear42 is now known as bear
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  453. [19:00:41] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  454. [19:01:01] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54bd6d5b.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  455. [19:01:37] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) Quit ("k lol plz thx bai")
  456. [19:03:38] * McNulty (n=ciaran@87-194-63-145.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  457. [19:05:12] <mfbot> [[accessibility]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=accessibility&diff=0&oldid=16512 * JamesCraig * (-760) Disadvantages - reverting content already on (or linked from) accessibility-issues page
  458. [19:06:09] * McNulty_ (n=ciaran@87-194-63-145.bethere.co.uk) Quit ()
  459. [19:07:07] * briansuda (n=briansud@bokd003.rhi.hi.is) Quit ()
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  462. [19:19:22] <KevinMarks> the real GTD trap is the programmers' instinct to go off and write a database for it
  463. [19:22:06] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  464. [19:22:06] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  465. [19:23:09] * dbaron (n=dbaron@banff-72-29-239-177.mycanopy.net) has joined #microformats
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  467. [19:40:35] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-48e59e6efe4c6565) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  468. [19:49:50] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  469. [19:49:51] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
  470. [19:59:51] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  471. [20:06:47] * McNulty (n=ciaran@87-194-63-145.bethere.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  472. [20:06:47] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  473. [20:07:03] * McNulty (n=ciaran@87-194-63-145.bethere.co.uk) Quit (Client Quit)
  474. [20:15:38] <mfbot> [[audio-info-proposal]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-proposal&diff=0&oldid=16513 * ManuSporny * (+69) Work Title -
  475. [20:16:44] <mfbot> [[audio-info-proposal]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-proposal&diff=0&oldid=16514 * ManuSporny * (+38) Schema -
  476. [20:19:05] <mfbot> [[audio-info-proposal]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-proposal&diff=0&oldid=16515 * ManuSporny * (+98) Schema -
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  478. [20:24:35] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-01795a98dc4b5191) has joined #microformats
  479. [20:29:01] <mfbot> [[audio-info-proposal]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-proposal&diff=0&oldid=16516 * Wojciech * (-72) Work Title
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  488. [21:14:17] * pawlik (i=pawlik@mpawlowski.pl) has joined #microformats
  489. [21:14:17] <jibot> pawlik is Maciej Pawlowski, Poland (mpawlowski.pl)
  490. [21:14:23] * iand (n=iand@cpc2-nthc3-0-0-cust770.nrth.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
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  492. [21:14:23] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  494. [21:15:03] <pawlik> wzajac, hi <;
  495. [21:15:15] * bear42 is now known as bear
  496. [21:17:36] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=16517 * Tantek * (+377) added place vs. org issue
  497. [21:27:32] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Connection timed out)
  498. [21:48:23] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=16518 * AndyMabbett * (-377) rv. not what I said; duplicates entry of 2006-12-15
  499. [21:49:14] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=16519 * Tantek * (+377) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  500. [21:51:46] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=16520 * Tantek * (+176) revert was to restore issue, alter source as apparently desired, and note difference from previous issue.
  501. [21:55:32] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=16521 * AndyMabbett * (+180) clarify duplication
  502. [21:59:53] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=16522 * Tantek * (-3) typo
  503. [22:02:51] * factoryjoe (n=factoryj@65.87.23.35) Quit ()
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  507. [22:44:37] <mfbot> [[assistive-technology]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=assistive-technology&diff=0&oldid=16523 * Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis * (+117) Test possibilities -
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.