IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-06-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:19] * sreynen (n=sreynen@205.169.187.2) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  2. [00:01:12] * amir1641 is now known as amir
  3. [00:04:24] <mfbot> [[hcard-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=17667 * RyanKing * (+121)
  4. [00:06:40] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=17668 * RyanKing * (+358)
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  7. [00:09:21] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-creator-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-creator-feedback&diff=0&oldid=17669 * RyanKing * (+81)
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  18. [00:47:22] * DanWrong (n=DanWrong@87.114.158.128.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) Quit ("A B C ya and I wouldn't want to be ya")
  19. [01:03:05] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=17670 * ScottReynen * (+61)
  20. [01:03:46] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=17671 * ScottReynen * (+4)
  21. [01:04:17] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=17672 * ScottReynen * (-19)
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  23. [01:11:13] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=17673 * ScottReynen * (+714) Examples -
  24. [01:26:27] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
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  27. [01:37:38] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=17674 * ScottReynen * (+1002)
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  40. [05:37:18] <mfbot> [[hresume-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=17675 * EdLau * (+73) New Examples -
  41. [05:58:13] <mfbot> [[press-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-fr&diff=0&oldid=17676 * WzzHqp * (-8974)
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  46. [06:23:18] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:WzzHqp" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  47. [06:23:30] <mfbot> [[press-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press-fr&diff=0&oldid=17677 * Tantek * (+8974) Reverted edit of WzzHqp, changed back to last version by RobertBachmann
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  60. [08:17:03] <mfbot> [[what-are-microformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=17678 * PxqZcu * (+0)
  61. [08:29:08] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) Quit ("kthxbai")
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  76. [11:40:18] <mfbot> [[citation-irc-meetup]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-irc-meetup&diff=0&oldid=17679 * KciBfq * (-804)
  77. [11:40:49] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=17680 * Ajaswa * (+126) New Examples - added globeandmail.com to the list
  78. [11:50:39] * Jonbo (n=Jonbo123@adsl-074-229-245-180.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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  86. [13:32:51] <mfbot> [[citation-irc-meetup]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-irc-meetup&diff=0&oldid=17681 * ScottReynen * (+804) Reverted edit of KciBfq, changed back to last version by Brian
  87. [13:34:37] <mfbot> [[hatom-hints]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-hints&diff=0&oldid=17682 * LasX5m * (-4162)
  88. [13:34:48] <mfbot> [[hatom-hints]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-hints&diff=0&oldid=17683 * ScottReynen * (+4162) Reverted edit of LasX5m, changed back to last version by Tantek
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  100. [14:25:04] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:LasX5m" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  101. [14:25:11] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:KciBfq" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  102. [14:25:16] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:PxqZcu" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  103. [14:25:22] <mfbot> [[what-are-microformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=17684 * Tantek * (+0) Reverted edit of PxqZcu, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
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  108. [14:44:37] <V-I-P> hi@all
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  117. [15:52:05] <mfbot> [[citation-irc-meetup]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-irc-meetup&diff=0&oldid=17685 * XzrJdr * (-804)
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  121. [15:53:56] <mfbot> [[citation-irc-meetup]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-irc-meetup&diff=0&oldid=17686 * Brian * (+804) Reverted edit of XzrJdr, changed back to last version by ScottReynen
  122. [15:55:32] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Brian * (+0) blocked "User:XzrJdr" with an expiry time of infinite: spam/damage
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  137. [17:14:47] <V-I-P> i need your opinion on something, how do you like the design of http://www.dailymentor.org
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  140. [17:42:19] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=17687 * MikeKaply * (+189) Feed <i>updated</i> (atom:<i>updated</i>) -
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  144. [18:01:24] <taaz> mkaply: bug with that new code (i think). it crashes firefox when you use context menu over a mf and try to go into an action submenu
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  151. [18:25:56] <V-I-P> i need your opinion on something, how do you like the design of http://www.dailymentor.org
  152. [18:26:29] * tantek_ (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  158. [18:39:53] * DanWrong (n=DanWrong@87.114.158.128.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) Quit ("A B C ya and I wouldn't want to be ya")
  159. [18:43:03] <tantek> V-I-P: Make your "dailymentor" site POSH for starters, then come back and ask for more feedback. http://microformats.org/wiki/posh
  160. [18:46:00] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@last.fm/staff/wurstkind) Quit ("Schönen Tag noch!")
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  169. [19:09:19] <KevinMarks> w00t! http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/576635008/
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  202. [21:50:18] <mfbot> [[citation-irc-meetup]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-irc-meetup&diff=0&oldid=17688 * Yl8Dfb * (-804)
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  207. [22:03:24] <KevinMarks> TiddlyWiki hCard support
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  212. [22:06:00] <tantek> KevinMarks, could you add URLs etc. to http://microformats.org/wiki/examples-in-wild ?
  213. [22:06:08] <tantek> er
  214. [22:06:19] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples-in-wild
  215. [22:06:33] <tantek> and http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-implementations if it is a tool you can install (which IIRC it is)
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  229. [23:33:13] <unfo> hi all, why is "what are microformats" so hard to explain in few words?
  230. [23:34:50] <bewest> is that rhetorical?
  231. [23:35:22] <unfo> not sure
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  234. [23:35:58] <unfo> i don't know what they are, and i read some long-winded webpage, and i still don't get it.
  235. [23:36:07] <bewest> which page did you read?
  236. [23:36:15] <bewest> maybe I can help :-0
  237. [23:36:25] <unfo> i will check wikipedia this time.
  238. [23:36:52] <bewest> I'm interested in which page you found confusing
  239. [23:38:06] <mfbot> [[hcard-parsing-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing-fr&diff=0&oldid=17689 * RmkJsz * (-22753)
  240. [23:38:11] <bewest> unfo: the reason it's hard to explain, is because there has been some confusion between the brand and the product... kind of the way everyone calls tissues "kleenex"
  241. [23:38:22] <mfbot> [[hcard-parsing-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing-fr&diff=0&oldid=17690 * Tantek * (+22753) Reverted edit of RmkJsz, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
  242. [23:38:43] <bewest> unfo: do you author html?
  243. [23:38:48] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:RmkJsz" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  244. [23:38:49] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Yl8Dfb" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  245. [23:38:55] <mfbot> [[citation-irc-meetup]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-irc-meetup&diff=0&oldid=17691 * Tantek * (+804) Reverted edit of Yl8Dfb, changed back to last version by Brian
  246. [23:39:01] <unfo> bewest, yes. I also do perl and php.
  247. [23:39:19] <tantek> unfo, do you author semantic html?
  248. [23:39:21] <bewest> right. you also know CSS pretty well?
  249. [23:39:22] <unfo> no
  250. [23:39:31] <tantek> unfo, that's probably the best place to start
  251. [23:39:37] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/posh
  252. [23:39:44] <unfo> only enough CSS to change the font in my resume and to double-space my userContent
  253. [23:39:49] <unfo> ok, wikipedia explains it well. I think it's because they give examples.
  254. [23:39:57] <bewest> ah
  255. [23:40:23] <unfo> http://microformats.org/about/ isn't as good.
  256. [23:40:30] <unfo> Is it a marketing page?
  257. [23:42:28] <bewest> no, there's a technological map showing where microformats fit in multi-tierred model
  258. [23:42:34] <unfo> hmmm
  259. [23:42:39] <unfo> what do you mean?
  260. [23:43:06] <unfo> i hate the web.
  261. [23:43:14] <unfo> i prefer ncurses apps.
  262. [23:43:21] <bewest> ah, well it's all about the web.
  263. [23:43:31] <unfo> Too bad facebook and such aren't ncurses-based, and that gmail doesn't offer IMAP access.
  264. [23:43:43] <unfo> Or at least GTK.
  265. [23:44:30] <bewest> well, you can think of microformats as one way to make the information stored on the web available to more tools, for example tools that may have non-web interfaces, such as ncurses
  266. [23:44:45] <unfo> hmm... didnt think of it that way
  267. [23:44:58] <bewest> that's what the map is depicting
  268. [23:45:00] <unfo> but how many websites really have good offline interfaces?
  269. [23:45:16] <bewest> the idea is that publishers shouldn't have to worry about the interfaces
  270. [23:45:18] <bewest> only the information
  271. [23:45:31] <bewest> then tools can provide the most appropriate interface
  272. [23:45:40] <unfo> but their data ends up on some closed-content website.
  273. [23:45:50] <unfo> and there end up being few or no tools.
  274. [23:46:10] <bewest> but, if the website uses certain authoring techniques, such as semantic html authorship, any tool can parse the information back out
  275. [23:46:16] <bewest> that's what microformats allows.
  276. [23:46:28] <unfo> although there are some I should try: e.g. facebook toolbar for firefox (though I fear it's addictive) and emacs' wikipedia mode (ditto)
  277. [23:46:41] <bewest> for example, we have a semantic html technique called hcard to encode information about people and contacts in any html page.
  278. [23:46:41] <unfo> bewest, it's allowed but how often do those tools get written?
  279. [23:47:12] <unfo> bewest, and when the tools *are* written don't they tend to run on a web server somewhere?
  280. [23:47:21] <bewest> well this pretty new stuff, so there are still lots of people trying to figure out which tools to write
  281. [23:47:24] <bewest> and how they should work
  282. [23:47:29] <bewest> and how the data should be represented
  283. [23:47:41] <bewest> microformats is just over 2 years old
  284. [23:47:57] <bewest> and of course it doesn't work if no one authors their webpages using these techniques
  285. [23:48:03] <bewest> (but they are!)
  286. [23:48:21] <bewest> according to my data there are about half a billion instances of microformatted content on the web
  287. [23:48:56] <tantek> bewest, is that something i can quote you on in a blog post today?
  288. [23:49:10] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  289. [23:49:27] <bewest> which means you could implement a ncurses interface to a sort of decentralized phone book, by parsing hcard
  290. [23:49:47] <bewest> where "the phone book" == "all web pages in existance with an hcard on them"
  291. [23:50:05] <bewest> that way you wouldn't need to visit someone's crappy site and wade through their navigation
  292. [23:50:14] <bewest> tantek: hmmm lemme count again
  293. [23:51:05] <tantek> about half a billion is good. over half a billion would be better. i'm imagining a McDonald's style sign (where's factoryjoe?)
  294. [23:51:13] <bewest> just short of half a billion instances
  295. [23:51:17] <tantek> OVER 500 MILLION PUBLISHED
  296. [23:51:22] <tantek> oh ok
  297. [23:51:34] <tantek> OVER 499 MILLION PUBLISHED then?
  298. [23:51:35] <bewest> but there are other considerations affecting that count
  299. [23:51:45] <bewest> no, it's more like over 450
  300. [23:51:54] <tantek> i'll take it
  301. [23:51:57] <unfo> bewest, it'd be cool if i could sync my palmpilot address book with my facebook friend list.
  302. [23:52:05] <bewest> unfo: exactly.
  303. [23:52:09] <unfo> i cant.
  304. [23:52:23] <unfo> i miss the unix philosophy.
  305. [23:52:26] <bewest> unfo: you can. I think DanC might have something that does this
  306. [23:52:34] <unfo> cool! but who is danC?
  307. [23:52:39] <tantek> unfo, which tenets in particular of the unix philosophy do you miss?
  308. [23:52:51] <unfo> text-only protocols and formats
  309. [23:52:53] <unfo> pipes
  310. [23:52:56] <bewest> unfo: we love unix philosophy! we have a number of tools that do one thing well that you can also arrange into pipes
  311. [23:52:59] <bewest> pipeable web services
  312. [23:53:21] <unfo> but aren't web services scary and hard to learn and use?
  313. [23:53:35] <bewest> unfo: only the badly designed ones
  314. [23:53:43] <unfo> also, i hate closed content and closed source web apps. I hate the web. Except maybe wikipedia.
  315. [23:53:57] <bewest> tantek: most are rel-help
  316. [23:54:09] <bewest> unfo: most web content is open
  317. [23:54:12] <unfo> there's cool stuff like the wikipediafs mountable filesystem.
  318. [23:54:16] <unfo> what do you mean open?
  319. [23:54:22] <bewest> in the sense that anyone can do a GET and recieve the content for that resource
  320. [23:55:02] <bewest> this group doesn't even consider non-open content. we call them walled gardens
  321. [23:55:24] <tantek> unfo, one of our goals is to enable and encourage A LOT more open content
  322. [23:55:29] <unfo> bewest, ok, that's a better term.
  323. [23:55:30] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106001346fa7d6d.wp.shawcable.net) Quit (No route to host)
  324. [23:55:31] <tantek> for more types of data
  325. [23:55:34] <unfo> tantek, cool!
  326. [23:55:43] <tantek> people, organizations, events, reviews etc.
  327. [23:55:51] <tantek> open content depends on open data formats
  328. [23:56:00] <tantek> that are easy for publishers to publish
  329. [23:56:05] <tantek> (more important than programmers to parse)
  330. [23:56:08] <bewest> lemme see if I can dig up any of DanC's stuff
  331. [23:56:31] <tantek> unfo, consider adding yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people
  332. [23:56:36] <tantek> and linking to your website
  333. [23:57:07] <unfo> http://jspiro.com/files?
  334. [23:57:10] <unfo> why?
  335. [23:57:16] <bewest> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2001/palmagent/
  336. [23:57:44] <bewest> unfo: I think there are some tools there that are capable of ripping hcards off a website and stuffing them into a palm
  337. [23:57:47] <bewest> not sure though
  338. [23:57:48] <unfo> bewest, there's lots of stuff for linux too, like pilot-tools. but how does that help to sync with wikipedia?
  339. [23:57:54] <unfo> and does facebook use microformats?
  340. [23:58:39] <unfo> *sync with facebook
  341. [23:58:54] <unfo> the hard part is working with walled gardens like facebook.
  342. [23:59:00] <tantek> unfo, helps with establishing context for communication
  343. [23:59:12] <unfo> tantek, i don't understand

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.