IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-08-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:04:36] * anselxyz (n=chatzill@DNab423ce5.Stanford.EDU) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  9. [01:02:02] <mfbot> [[User:ManuSporny]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ManuSporny&diff=0&oldid=19070 * ManuSporny * (+98) Essays About Microformats -
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  11. [01:51:56] <tommorris> Just added vote-links to del.icio.us links on my blog.
  12. [01:52:12] <tommorris> All are vote-abstain by default, and then any I tag vote-for or vote-against get marked up appropriately.
  13. [02:07:42] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
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  15. [02:23:39] <SignpostMarv> the spec says the absence of vote-abstain, vote-for or vote-against implies vote-abstain
  16. [02:24:26] <SignpostMarv> although to me it's the difference between saying "i don't give a crap about this" and "i really don't give a crap about this"
  17. [02:32:37] * tantek_ (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
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  23. [03:07:30] <csarven> SignpostMarv default being vote-abstain i gather
  24. [03:07:50] <SignpostMarv> yar
  25. [03:09:13] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  26. [03:09:13] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  28. [03:11:28] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats * ManuSporny * (+8346) Initial authoring of page
  29. [03:12:18] * SignpostMarv thinks "The Need for digital media microformats" would've been a better title
  30. [03:14:04] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19071 * ManuSporny * (+1) The Need for Audio, Video and Media Microformats -
  31. [03:14:45] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19072 * ManuSporny * (+9) The Need for Audio, Video and Media Microformats -
  32. [03:15:11] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19073 * ManuSporny * (-12) The Need for Audio, Video and Media Microformats -
  33. [03:16:53] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19074 * ManuSporny * (+2) Text, Audio and Video Semantics -
  34. [03:17:43] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19075 * ManuSporny * (+11) Text, Audio and Video Semantics -
  35. [03:17:55] <mfbot> [[User talk:ManuSporny]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:ManuSporny * SignpostMarv * (+137) re: [[TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats]]
  36. [03:19:36] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19076 * ManuSporny * (-9) The Need for Audio, Video and Media Microformats -
  37. [03:22:18] <mfbot> [[User:ManuSporny]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:ManuSporny&diff=0&oldid=19077 * ManuSporny * (+83) Essays About Microformats -
  38. [03:22:59] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForDigitalMediaMicroformats]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/TheNeedForDigitalMediaMicroformats * ManuSporny * (+8348) Copying from TheNeedForAudioVideoAndMediaMicroformats page
  39. [03:23:50] <mfbot> [[User talk:ManuSporny]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:ManuSporny&diff=0&oldid=19078 * ManuSporny * (+66)
  40. [03:24:26] <mfbot> [[User talk:ManuSporny]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:ManuSporny&diff=0&oldid=19079 * ManuSporny * (+69)
  41. [03:24:53] * dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) has joined #microformats
  42. [03:25:42] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForDigitalMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForDigitalMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19080 * ManuSporny * (-1) Text, Audio and Video Semantics -
  43. [03:33:54] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForDigitalMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForDigitalMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19081 * ManuSporny * (+687) Browsers -
  44. [03:34:55] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForDigitalMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForDigitalMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19082 * ManuSporny * (+0) Browsers -
  45. [03:39:21] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForDigitalMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForDigitalMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19083 * ManuSporny * (+123) Parting Thoughts -
  46. [03:43:22] * dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  52. [05:44:58] <mfbot> [[User:BruceDailey]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:BruceDailey&diff=0&oldid=19084 * BruceDailey * (+61) Websites -
  53. [05:45:39] <mfbot> [[User:BruceDailey]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:BruceDailey&diff=0&oldid=19085 * BruceDailey * (+0) Websites -
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  63. [06:43:46] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  65. [06:52:36] <SignpostMarv> tantek, what's your opinion on any difference between implicit and explict "vote-abstain" ?
  66. [06:55:04] <KevinMarks> does it say vote-abstain is implicit?
  67. [06:55:14] <KevinMarks> I though vote-for was commonly seen as implicit
  68. [06:55:50] <SignpostMarv> "A link without an explicit vote 'rev' value is deemed to have value "vote-for" or "vote-abstain", depending on the application."
  69. [06:56:00] <KevinMarks> rel="nofollow" is equivalent to vote-abstain
  70. [06:56:11] <SignpostMarv> or vote-against :-P
  71. [07:03:14] * shawn (n=shawn@adsl-70-231-227-173.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
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  73. [07:11:03] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=19086 * Tantek * (+16)
  74. [07:13:04] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=19087 * Tantek * (-14)
  75. [07:16:25] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)")
  76. [07:33:46] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=19088 * ChristopheDucamp * (+118) sous propriétés adr implicites -
  77. [07:39:04] * bengee (n=bengee@ip145.209.reserved.ish.de) has joined #microformats
  78. [07:45:17] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=19089 * ChristopheDucamp * (+388) Ajouts post vCard -
  79. [07:46:59] <mfbot> [[genealogy-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/genealogy-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+345)
  80. [07:47:34] <mfbot> [[genealogy-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=genealogy-fr&diff=0&oldid=19090 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2)
  81. [07:50:35] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=19091 * AndyMabbett * (+105) Feedback -
  82. [07:51:52] <mfbot> [[TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats&diff=0&oldid=0 * SignpostMarv * (+8453) TheNeedForAudioVideoandMediaMicroformats moved to The Need for Digital Media Microformats
  83. [07:53:48] <mfbot> [[Microformats:General disclaimer]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Microformats:General_disclaimer&diff=0&oldid=19092 * ChristopheDucamp * (+201) traduction
  84. [07:56:50] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-71-198-189-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
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  86. [07:59:23] * mefisto (n=mefisto|@85.254.221.107) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  87. [08:00:46] <logankoester> Has there been any discussion of a microformat to describe domain whois data?
  88. [08:08:25] <mfbot> [[history-of-microformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=history-of-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=19093 * ChristopheDucamp * (+357) sync'd
  89. [08:09:06] <mfbot> [[history-of-microformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=history-of-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=19094 * ChristopheDucamp * (-3) Aperçu - typo
  90. [08:15:17] <mfbot> [[hcard-cheatsheet-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-cheatsheet-fr&diff=0&oldid=19095 * ChristopheDucamp * (-886) Notes - synchro
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  92. [08:21:48] <mfbot> [[Template:geo-note-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:geo-note-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+924) création
  93. [08:25:04] <mfbot> [[Template:adr-note-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:adr-note-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+363)
  94. [08:27:41] * mefisto (n=mefisto|@213.175.120.26) has joined #microformats
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  97. [08:38:16] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=19096 * ChristopheDucamp * (-731) synchro in progress
  98. [08:38:16] * iand (n=iand@89.192.23.26) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  99. [08:39:27] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=19097 * ChristopheDucamp * (+23) Comment contribuer ? -
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  101. [08:41:33] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=19098 * ChristopheDucamp * (+17) Comment contribuer ? - add get-started-fr to be translated
  102. [08:43:29] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=19099 * Tantek * (+119) collapsed two redundant IBM listings, kept additional details from both, created new Grouped Examples subsection for Group Blogs
  103. [08:45:05] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=19100 * ChristopheDucamp * (+406) Discussions Exploratoires -
  104. [08:55:49] * shreeve (n=shreeve@ip68-101-125-49.oc.oc.cox.net) has joined #microformats
  105. [08:55:57] <shreeve> anyone familiar with haml?
  106. [08:57:33] * SignpostMrv (i=Signpost@82-71-31-169.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  107. [08:57:33] * SignpostMarv (i=Signpost@82-71-31-169.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  108. [08:59:26] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=19101 * ChristopheDucamp * (+339) sync'd to be peer-reviewed by microformateurs
  109. [08:59:57] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=19102 * ChristopheDucamp * (-14) Comment contribuer ? -
  110. [09:00:44] <mfbot> [[testimonial-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/testimonial-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+29) #REDIRECT:[[testimonials-fr]]
  111. [09:02:08] * SignpostMrv (i=Signpost@82-71-31-169.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) Quit (Client Quit)
  112. [09:12:11] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=19103 * Brian * (+149) Microformats History -
  113. [09:18:37] <mfbot> [[get-started-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/get-started-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+2805) translated
  114. [09:20:03] <mfbot> [[get-started-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=get-started-fr&diff=0&oldid=19104 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0)
  115. [09:22:20] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
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  117. [09:29:35] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=19105 * ChristopheDucamp * (+87)
  118. [09:32:51] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=19106 * ChristopheDucamp * (+575) Plus de trucs et d'instructions - add 'Fragments et Liens' -> bonne pratique d'ajouter un attribut 'id'
  119. [09:32:52] * danja (n=danja@host224-217-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  120. [09:34:52] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=19107 * ChristopheDucamp * (+64) Table des matières placée à droite
  121. [09:36:03] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=19108 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1)
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  128. [10:40:32] <mfbot> [[appcast-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=appcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19109 * DenisDefreyne * (+2049) Adding a somewhat incomplete proposal and Multi-app/arch/OS/... section
  129. [10:42:06] * danja (n=danja@host39-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
  130. [10:48:53] <mfbot> [[appcast-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=appcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19110 * DenisDefreyne * (+463)
  131. [10:54:49] * adactio (n=jeremy@host81-157-231-200.range81-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  132. [10:54:49] * ChanServ sets mode +o adactio
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  134. [10:55:25] * ChanServ sets mode +o drewinthehead
  135. [10:55:32] <drewinthehead> greetings
  136. [10:55:42] <ddfreyne> morning
  137. [10:56:22] <drewinthehead> last minute (well 5 mins) to a code freeze - doesn't anyone know either way if Operator properly supports the a@include pattern?
  138. [10:57:32] <adactio> last time I did some checking with hReview, Operator wasn't picking up the anchor include pattern but it may well pick up the object include pattern.
  139. [10:58:50] <drewinthehead> looks like that's what i'm seeing here too. thanks Jeremy
  140. [10:59:05] <mfbot> [[appcast-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=appcast-examples&diff=0&oldid=19111 * AndyMabbett * (+64) sub-headings
  141. [11:00:30] * BlueMaex is now known as [HAM]BlueMaex
  142. [11:01:16] <drewinthehead> commited with 30secs to spare ... another 512 hCards in the wild
  143. [11:01:16] <mfbot> [[appcast-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=appcast-examples&diff=0&oldid=19112 * AndyMabbett * (+264) Examples - Mozilla Firefox extesnions
  144. [11:01:37] <mfbot> [[appcast-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=appcast-examples&diff=0&oldid=19113 * AndyMabbett * (-1) fmt
  145. [11:02:08] <mfbot> [[downloads-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=downloads-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19114 * DenisDefreyne * (+366) Updating the downloads-brainstorming page
  146. [11:02:14] <mfbot> [[appcast-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=appcast-examples&diff=0&oldid=19115 * AndyMabbett * (+31) sort contributors
  147. [11:03:30] <mfbot> [[appcast]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/appcast * AndyMabbett * (+67)
  148. [11:03:56] <ddfreyne> my last downloads-brainstorming edit summary wasn't really useful, heh
  149. [11:05:16] <mfbot> [[appcast-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=appcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19116 * DenisDefreyne * (+59)
  150. [11:06:29] <ddfreyne> One minor issue with appcasts is that Sparkle only uses the last appcast entry… and not the older ones
  151. [11:06:40] <ddfreyne> s/last/newest/
  152. [11:14:08] * CaptSolo_ (n=captsolo@srvgal18-vm11.nuigalway.ie) Quit ("leaving")
  153. [11:17:03] <mfbot> [[appcast-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=appcast-examples&diff=0&oldid=19117 * DenisDefreyne * (+911) Adding four more example download pages (MacUpdate, VersionTracker, etc)
  154. [11:18:45] <ddfreyne> Is it possible to somehow codify the licence type? freeware/shareware/opensource/commercial/… ?
  155. [11:36:27] * [HAM]BlueMaex is now known as BlueMaex
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  157. [11:57:42] <mfbot> [[downloads-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=downloads-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19118 * AndyMabbett * (+144) Relation to Appcasts - no specific name; suggest merge
  158. [11:58:18] <mfbot> [[downloads-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=downloads-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=19119 * AndyMabbett * (-1) rm fragemnt
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  176. [13:37:14] <mfbot> [[audio-info-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=audio-info-issues&diff=0&oldid=19120 * AndyMabbett * (+130) dtstart
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  188. [14:42:13] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=19121 * Cheesegeek * (+59) Exemples pour se conformer -
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  193. [15:11:10] <mfbot> [[spellcheck]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=19122 * CarlaHufstedler * (+239) Spell checking - added compiled .txt file of terms
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  197. [15:11:41] <mfbot> [[spellcheck]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=spellcheck&diff=0&oldid=19123 * CarlaHufstedler * (+0) Spell checking - fixed my bracketing error
  198. [15:13:42] <mfbot> [[User:CarlaHufstedler]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/User:CarlaHufstedler * CarlaHufstedler * (+146) added my links
  199. [15:14:08] <mfbot> [[User:CarlaHufstedler]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:CarlaHufstedler&diff=0&oldid=19124 * CarlaHufstedler * (+6) tweaked
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  202. [15:21:30] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=19125 * AndyMabbett * (+321) New Examples - more Wikipeida examples added
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  219. [15:45:42] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=19126 * AndyMabbett * (+103) New Examples - Wikipedia: singles
  220. [15:47:58] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=19127 * AndyMabbett * (+79) New Examples - wikipedia - films
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  236. [16:16:20] <mfbot> [[User talk:CarlaHufstedler]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:CarlaHufstedler * AndyMabbett * (+72) Welcome!
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  242. [16:29:02] <mfbot> [[User:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=19128 * AndyMabbett * (+11) My microformats interests - hCalendar on Wikpedia
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  245. [16:32:13] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=19129 * BarryCornelius * (+677) New Examples -
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  250. [16:40:00] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=19130 * BarryCornelius * (+119) add links to examples of hCalendar and iCalendar
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  273. [18:03:25] * mkaply notes that the first hcalendar testcase is invalid because it doesn't have a summary
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  305. [19:28:32] <mkaply> More test problems
  306. [19:28:35] <mkaply> http://hg.microformats.org/tests?f=84fd5628b554;file=hcalendar/11-component-vevent-summary-in-subelements.html;style=gitweb
  307. [19:28:38] <mkaply> http://hg.microformats.org/tests?f=b9668af35633;file=hcalendar/11-component-vevent-summary-in-subelements.ics;style=gitweb
  308. [19:29:40] <mkaply> That ICS file doesn't match that HTML file
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  316. [20:01:10] <drewinthehead> no jibot? on noes.
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  318. [20:01:27] <drewinthehead> greetings
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  324. [20:18:40] <mfbot> [[microformats-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats-issues&diff=0&oldid=19131 * Rohit * (+176) Legal Entity Issues -
  325. [20:22:46] <kingryan> mkaply: why do you say that those files don't match?
  326. [20:23:06] <mkaply> kingryan: One uses TZ offset, one uses Z
  327. [20:24:09] <kingryan> that's not a bug
  328. [20:24:16] <kingryan> ical doesn't allow offsets
  329. [20:24:29] <kingryan> AFAIR
  330. [20:25:30] <mkaply> whoa. DTSTART and DTEND can't have TZ offsets?
  331. [20:25:35] <kingryan> yup
  332. [20:25:37] <mkaply> it's in the ISO date spec?
  333. [20:25:43] <mkaply> but other testcases do
  334. [20:25:47] <kingryan> ical doesn't use the ISO spec
  335. [20:25:56] <kingryan> what other testcases?
  336. [20:26:07] <kingryan> url?
  337. [20:26:23] * mkaply is looking
  338. [20:26:41] <mkaply> hmm. actually they don't
  339. [20:26:46] <kingryan> :)
  340. [20:26:50] <mkaply> I'm thinking of hcard
  341. [20:27:01] <mkaply> kingryan: thanks for throwing a wrench into my thinking.
  342. [20:27:05] <kingryan> yeah, dates in other microformats can take offsets
  343. [20:27:12] <mkaply> OK, so for hcalendar, I need to convert TZ offsets to Zulu time?
  344. [20:27:17] <kingryan> mkaply: thanks for *not* finding a problem with tests I've written :)
  345. [20:27:20] <mkaply> or only when it is exported to the ICS
  346. [20:27:24] <mkaply> kingryan: oh I found problems.
  347. [20:27:30] <kingryan> I'd say "only when exporting"
  348. [20:27:41] <mkaply> kingryan: Septempter 3, 1997
  349. [20:27:54] <kingryan> please add problems to http://microformats.org/wiki/tests-issues
  350. [20:28:17] <mkaply> kingryan: What is still confusing me is the issue of required fields for vevent. You have testcases without summary/without dtstart
  351. [20:28:26] <mkaply> technically those are invalid, correct?
  352. [20:28:30] <kingryan> hmm
  353. [20:28:42] <kingryan> well, some of the test would still be considered "work in progress"
  354. [20:28:52] <kingryan> esp. if the filename doens't start with a number
  355. [20:29:56] * shawn (n=shawn@032-324-517.area1.spcsdns.net) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  356. [20:31:45] <mkaply> kingryan: those are final tests. Test 1 is technically invalid. That's what I'm having the problem with.
  357. [20:32:23] <mkaply> What does "invalid microformat" mean really?
  358. [20:32:36] <mkaply> In the Firefox 3 case, should I not create a microformat objcet at all if it is "invalid"
  359. [20:33:02] <mkaply> Or should I create an object, and it just doesn't have some stuff in it
  360. [20:33:36] <kingryan> I dunno
  361. [20:33:43] <kingryan> depends on what's missing I guess
  362. [20:33:56] <mkaply> for instance.
  363. [20:34:12] <kingryan> tantek: are the required fields for hcalendar documented anywhere?
  364. [20:34:14] <mkaply> http://upcoming.yahoo.com/search/?set=undiscovered&q=&search_placeid=2KG24iGbBZ_Mvs0M
  365. [20:34:26] <mkaply> technically every single event on this page is invalid
  366. [20:34:46] <kingryan> what's missing?
  367. [20:34:51] <mkaply> summary
  368. [20:34:57] <mfbot> [[social-network-portability]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability&diff=0&oldid=19132 * KevinLawver * (+304) Discussion and suggestions -
  369. [20:34:57] <mkaply> dtstart and location is all that is there
  370. [20:35:05] <mkaply> for 42 events
  371. [20:35:46] <kingryan> I'd reccomend contacting upcoming about that
  372. [20:37:15] <taaz> a nice strict mode to only accept valid markup would be nice. but then again, if browsers did that with html no sites on the internets would render. :)
  373. [20:37:19] <mkaply> I'd really prefer not to make the creation of a microformat throw on creation failure. That puts so much more work on the programmer
  374. [20:37:51] * mkaply goes to look up his upcoming contact
  375. [20:37:54] <drewinthehead> mkaply: I'll log a bug with upcoming
  376. [20:38:05] <mkaply> drewinthehead: thanks
  377. [20:38:12] <drewinthehead> I have direct access to their bugtracker
  378. [20:38:18] * briansuda thinks that actually NOTHING is required in iCal according to the RFC
  379. [20:38:20] <mkaply> drewinthehead: last time I called them out publicly. That worked prety well :)
  380. [20:38:31] <mkaply> briansuda: Then should vevent require it?
  381. [20:38:42] <briansuda> there are two houses of thought
  382. [20:38:49] <drewinthehead> mkaply: they're keen to get things right, whatever the means of notification
  383. [20:39:02] <briansuda> I THINK according to the RFC there is NOTHING required, but practically, you need a DTSTART and a SUMMARY
  384. [20:39:05] <mkaply> kingryan: Incidentally, you should see what I'm doing with your testcases
  385. [20:39:20] <mkaply> briansuda: I could see location/dtstart - what about a church service?
  386. [20:39:42] <kingryan> mkaply: contributions to the suite are welcome
  387. [20:40:05] <mkaply> kingryan: The only thing I've changed is adding an invalid type to telephone to test that we DON'T allow an incalid type
  388. [20:40:23] <mkaply> I've actually converted all the testcases for hcard and hcalendar to mochitest...
  389. [20:40:26] <kingryan> I'd love a patch for that
  390. [20:40:29] <mkaply> So I can unit test Microformats in Firefox
  391. [20:40:46] <kingryan> are you still using the vcard and ical files? or js?
  392. [20:40:52] <briansuda> OK, in the iCal RFC 4.6.1 Event Component....
  393. [20:40:57] <briansuda> eventc = "BEGIN" ":" "VEVENT" CRLF
  394. [20:40:57] <briansuda> eventprop *alarmc
  395. [20:40:57] <briansuda> "END" ":" "VEVENT" CRLF
  396. [20:41:04] <briansuda> eventprop = *(
  397. [20:41:04] <briansuda> ; the following are optional,
  398. [20:41:04] <briansuda> ; but MUST NOT occur more than once
  399. [20:41:04] <briansuda> class / created / description / dtstart / geo /
  400. [20:41:14] <mkaply> kingryan: just js. I use the ical/vcf files to references what should be there. But the raw JS is slightly different (no escaping for instance)
  401. [20:41:41] * kingryan has done some work to add more json to the test suite
  402. [20:42:06] <mkaply> kingryan: I'm considering adding an API to Firefox microformats that outputs JSON specifically for testing
  403. [20:42:15] * shawn (n=shawn@adsl-67-124-150-9.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  404. [20:42:56] <mkaply> lots to do
  405. [20:42:58] <kingryan> cool. I'll try and find some to work on specifying a canonical JSON format for the microformats
  406. [20:43:12] <mkaply> kingryan: that would be great. Right now things are kind of klunky
  407. [20:43:13] <kingryan> fwiw, I've essentially done most of the work for internal purposes at technorati
  408. [20:43:30] <mkaply> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=274515
  409. [20:44:57] <mkaply> OK, since people are chatting. General question. Should TZ offsets have a : in them? IT's in the standard, but do people ever expect that?...
  410. [20:45:05] <mkaply> Operator "normalizes" the time to have - and :
  411. [20:45:12] <mkaply> and I'm wondering if I should leave offset alone
  412. [20:46:12] <briansuda> Operator ADDes them or REMOVEs them?
  413. [20:46:46] <mkaply> adds them.
  414. [20:46:57] <mkaply> So all dates in Operator look like this:
  415. [20:47:05] <mkaply> 2005-10-05T23:30:00
  416. [20:47:36] <mkaply> I had a choice to make - the reason I chose the "add route" Is because it's easier to programmitcally remove them if you don't need them
  417. [20:47:49] <mkaply> then to programatically add them if you do
  418. [20:55:43] <mkaply> KevinMarks: ping
  419. [21:13:32] <KevinMarks> hi
  420. [21:13:52] <KevinMarks> that date isn't valid -no TZ
  421. [21:16:57] <drewinthehead> mkaply: +1 for 'add'
  422. [21:17:07] <KevinMarks> ah, /me reads mroe scrollback
  423. [21:17:44] <mkaply> KevinMarks: had a separate question for you about Google and microformats in gneral
  424. [21:17:46] <KevinMarks> agreeing a json mapping for the hCard and iCal schemas would be a fine thing
  425. [21:17:47] <mkaply> If you can't answer, that's cool
  426. [21:17:56] <KevinMarks> fire away
  427. [21:18:04] <mkaply> There are two things I want Google to do that would help Operator.
  428. [21:18:16] <mkaply> 1. Ability to send more than one location to a map via a REST API.
  429. [21:18:29] <mkaply> 2. Ability to add/update contacts in gmail.
  430. [21:18:36] <KevinMarks> heh
  431. [21:18:44] <mkaply> Do you know if any thought has been given to thse?
  432. [21:19:06] <mkaply> KevinMarks: and separate issue, some google guys from India might be contacting you (orkut)
  433. [21:19:27] <KevinMarks> 1. you can currently do by giving a KML file. Clearly, sending a µf file would be nice too
  434. [21:19:50] * briansuda notes there is a GEO to KML converter *cough* *cough*
  435. [21:20:05] <mkaply> 1. That's for Google Earth. I want it for google maps
  436. [21:20:05] <KevinMarks> If you say publicly that you would like these things it helps show people that there is demand for them
  437. [21:20:15] <mkaply> KevinMarks: will do :)
  438. [21:20:15] <KevinMarks> you can put kml on maps
  439. [21:20:16] <briansuda> it does google maps too
  440. [21:20:26] * mkaply didn't know.
  441. [21:20:31] <briansuda> just paste the URL in the search box
  442. [21:20:36] <briansuda> pretty nice actually!
  443. [21:20:52] <mkaply> but can I send it data URL or a file? The trick is I have the KML in memory
  444. [21:21:04] <KevinMarks> http://googlemapsapi.blogspot.com/2007/03/kml-and-georss-support-added-to-google.html
  445. [21:22:39] <mkaply> KML support in google maps = SWEET
  446. [21:23:52] <KevinMarks> an hCard to KML CGI site would be a neat thing
  447. [21:24:18] <mkaply> KevinMarks: That would be very nice.
  448. [21:24:26] * mkaply looks at brian
  449. [21:24:45] <mkaply> brian: So can I send you multiple geos, you give me a URL to a KML file and then I Send that KML file to google?
  450. [21:24:47] <briansuda> that is interesting, ... use Operator to grok the ADR, send it Google Maps, then extract the hCard (wish it had GEO)
  451. [21:25:19] <briansuda> um, well you send me a FILE that has multiple GEOs
  452. [21:25:37] <KevinMarks> there is a geocoder
  453. [21:25:47] * jiing (n=jiing@59-120-12-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) has joined #microformats
  454. [21:26:06] <briansuda> the GeoCoder only works for certain countries, but yes
  455. [21:26:42] <mkaply> briansuda: where's the GEO/KML converter?
  456. [21:27:03] * mkaply is blind
  457. [21:27:03] <mkaply> got it
  458. [21:27:04] <briansuda> http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/geo
  459. [21:28:08] <mkaply> so what would a URL look like that passed in a file?
  460. [21:28:11] <KevinMarks> as for 2. - adding contacts to gmail, yes that is something we should do, and I will try and get it edon
  461. [21:28:32] <mkaply> Like a full URL that generated KML from this
  462. [21:28:32] <mkaply> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_volcanoes_in_the_United_States_of_America
  463. [21:28:36] <mkaply> So I could pass it to google maps
  464. [21:28:48] * mkaply continues to be blind
  465. [21:28:49] <mkaply> it's on your site
  466. [21:29:03] <mkaply> http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/geo/get-geo.php?type=kml&uri=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_volcanoes_in_the_United_States_of_America
  467. [21:29:07] <briansuda> yup
  468. [21:29:17] <mkaply> man operator is slow on that volcanoes page
  469. [21:29:23] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181223139.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  470. [21:29:33] <mkaply> Sweet!
  471. [21:29:34] * KevinMarks blames andy ;)
  472. [21:29:46] <mkaply> Paste that into google maps and it works like a charm!
  473. [21:30:04] <KevinMarks> united staets and colony
  474. [21:30:09] <mkaply> This is perfect. I can do a "map all on google maps" but converting it to kml and sending it to brians code to be sent to google maps
  475. [21:30:09] <briansuda> yeah, i did a presentation at EuroOSCon with that sort of thing
  476. [21:30:22] <briansuda> you can also pass that to bablefish to translate it too!
  477. [21:30:32] <briansuda> the URL is the new Unix Pipe
  478. [21:30:55] <briansuda> or GeoRSS either will do
  479. [21:31:08] * mkaply adds that to his todo list
  480. [21:31:08] <briansuda> KML or GeoRSS, Yahoo supports GeoRSS, Google supports Both
  481. [21:31:35] <briansuda> although i don't think you can paste a URL at yahoo, only google, you have to use the Yahoo API to get GeoRSS into a map
  482. [21:31:50] <KevinMarks> how about Hcard (i include adr and geo as subsets)
  483. [21:32:54] <briansuda> the XSLT is only really interested in the GEO portion
  484. [21:33:06] <briansuda> so if it is in an hCard of hCal, then it gets it just fine
  485. [21:33:18] <KevinMarks> hm
  486. [21:33:20] <briansuda> there is a little hursistics to extract a TITLE for the GEO
  487. [21:33:35] <briansuda> depending on if it is in an ABBR or an hCard or hCal, etc
  488. [21:33:36] <mkaply> briansuda: yeah. I hate that. I have some ugly code for that
  489. [21:33:47] * mkaply wishes geos had titles
  490. [21:33:55] <briansuda> nothing official, but i think X2V and Operator do something similar
  491. [21:34:22] <briansuda> if it is ABBR, then i just use the node-value, but i feel your pain for just GEOs by themselves
  492. [21:34:47] <mkaply> as do I. If I just have lat/long, I look to see if it in an hcard or hcal and use the fn/summary
  493. [21:35:09] <briansuda> yeah, i think we had this discussion already... :)
  494. [21:35:33] <mkaply> According to the ISO spec, you can have seconds in a TZ offset?
  495. [21:35:39] <mkaply> When on earth would you ever have that?
  496. [21:35:49] <briansuda> you can have sub-seconds too
  497. [21:35:59] <briansuda> like 06:30:30.4
  498. [21:36:10] <briansuda> in a TZ i'm not sure!
  499. [21:36:11] <mkaply> in a timezone offset though? Why would you need that?
  500. [21:36:33] <briansuda> i guess if you setup a sovereign nation you can do what ever you want!
  501. [21:39:36] <mkaply> It was on Wikipedia. You can't trust that
  502. [21:40:10] <mkaply> Actually I should remove it. There's no such thing as seconds in tz offsets
  503. [21:41:18] <KevinMarks> http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&q=http:%2F%2Fsuda.co.uk%2Fprojects%2Fmicroformats%2Fgeo%2Fget-geo.php%3Ftype%3Dkml%26uri%3Dhttp:%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FList_of_volcanoes_in_the_United_States_of_America
  504. [21:41:26] <KevinMarks> URL as pipe
  505. [21:42:03] <mkaply> nice
  506. [21:42:08] <KevinMarks> there were some timezones that had a different meridian at one point
  507. [21:42:18] <KevinMarks> (mecca as meridian iirc)
  508. [21:43:42] <briansuda> http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime
  509. [21:43:52] <briansuda> that seems only to have (Z or +hh:mm or -hh:mm)
  510. [21:44:14] <briansuda> and since the ISO standard you have to pay to look at, everything is based on of this one
  511. [21:44:15] <mkaply> yeah. I referenced that in the wikipedia update
  512. [21:47:48] <KevinMarks> are there timezones that disagree about leapseconds?
  513. [21:48:22] <KevinMarks> I know there are timezones that change by 26 hours depending on the date, but thats just silliness
  514. [21:48:47] <KevinMarks> Kiribati nutcases
  515. [21:51:27] <KevinMarks> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_time_zones#UTC_.2B_14.2C_M.E2.80.A0
  516. [21:52:10] <KevinMarks> I published a CD-ROM Atlas in 1994, so I remember correcting that in the 1995 edition
  517. [21:52:30] <briansuda> :)
  518. [21:56:09] <mkaply> I like the 12:45 in New Zeland
  519. [21:57:05] <briansuda> there is a :15 between india and nepal
  520. [21:58:39] * runa (n=runa@200.69.209.25) Quit ("Leaving.")
  521. [22:07:15] <mkaply> later all
  522. [22:07:16] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-f2b3d1340d72ee01) Quit ("Leaving")
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