IRC Log for #microformats on 2008-06-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  7. [00:38:48] <jibot> Broady is Chris Broadfoot, lives in Sydney and blogs at http://chrisbroadfoot.id.au/
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  15. [01:28:56] <bluesmoon> dw: which team are you joining?
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  23. [01:56:01] <jibot> Broady is Chris Broadfoot, lives in Sydney and blogs at http://chrisbroadfoot.id.au/
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  25. [02:01:51] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  38. [03:15:14] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  56. [06:52:33] <jibot> Broady is Chris Broadfoot, lives in Sydney and blogs at http://chrisbroadfoot.id.au/
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  59. [07:08:14] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  61. [07:35:31] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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  65. [07:58:32] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  68. [08:02:09] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  72. [08:13:43] <jibot> bluesmoon is Philip <http://bluesmoon.info> & improves performance at Yahoo! & likes food & hacking & lives in the valley
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  86. [09:38:04] <jibot> mn_francis is a web developer for Yahoo! Europe; http://cackhanded.net/ is his personal site
  87. [10:02:27] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.66) has joined #microformats
  88. [10:02:27] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  89. [10:18:52] * BenWard (n=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-069391283ac45ab5) has joined #microformats
  90. [10:18:52] <jibot> BenWard is a Web Developer at Yahoo! Europe and an admin at microformats.org and based in the UK and better defined at http://ben-ward.co.uk
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  99. [11:33:02] <jibot> Broady is Chris Broadfoot, lives in Sydney and blogs at http://chrisbroadfoot.id.au/
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  108. [12:43:30] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer at http://edgeofmyseat.com
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  122. [14:01:06] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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  129. [14:46:25] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com and a neogeographer and is co-founder of Mapufacture
  130. [14:49:28] * Zeeshan_M (n=zeeshan_@91.84.20.5) has joined #Microformats
  131. [14:50:57] <Zeeshan_M> In the hCard example, demostrating that 'type' can be used multiple times when defining a tel entry, must I make sure my telephone number has no spaces and periods?
  132. [14:52:19] <Zeeshan_M> [By having spaces/periods OUTSIDE of the <span class="type"> wrappers]
  133. [14:53:29] <Zeeshan_M> For example, when wrapping the number '+44 (0)1604 648 260', can I do:
  134. [14:53:36] <Zeeshan_M> <dd class="tel"><span class="type">msg</span> <span class="value">+44 (0)1604 648 260</span></dd>
  135. [14:53:40] <Zeeshan_M> Or must I do:
  136. [14:53:47] <Zeeshan_M> <dd class="tel"><span class="type">msg</span> <span class="value">+44</span> (0)<span class="value">1604</span> <span class="value">648</span> <span class="value">260</span></dd>
  137. [14:53:56] <tantek> either should be fine
  138. [14:54:15] <tantek> depends on if you want the "(0)" part of the value or not
  139. [14:54:25] <Zeeshan_M> So the (0) and my preferred seperator (space) is fine?
  140. [14:54:40] <Zeeshan_M> The example indicates that this should not occur.
  141. [14:54:54] <BenWard> Zeeshan_AFK: In that number, the 0 isn't something you dial; it's either/or with the +44, so do:
  142. [14:54:55] <tantek> i don't know how phone dialing systems handle the "(0)" correctly for the UK - you would have to test that yourself
  143. [14:55:41] <Zeeshan_M> BenWard: I wish to also hint to UK users that they may need to use the 0 prefix
  144. [14:55:53] <BenWard> <dd class=tel><span class=type>msg</span> <span class=value>+44</span> (0) <span class=value>1604 648 260</span></span>
  145. [14:55:56] <Zeeshan_M> The reader is inferred to know +nn means international code.
  146. [14:56:04] <Zeeshan_M> I see
  147. [14:56:14] <BenWard> So you can leave the (0) in for presentation, but it gets ignored by the parser
  148. [14:56:36] <tantek> can UK users simply dial the +44 version and have it work? I have always wondered this.
  149. [14:56:37] <BenWard> We (UK users) can type the international form from within the UK too
  150. [14:56:51] <tantek> so there is no need for the "(0)" confusion/ambiguity then?
  151. [14:56:59] <Zeeshan_M> re:
  152. [14:57:01] <Zeeshan_M> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-faq
  153. [14:57:07] <BenWard> Most of the numbers in my mobile are now international form
  154. [14:57:14] <Zeeshan_M> re: Can you have multiple value elements
  155. [14:57:21] <Zeeshan_M> View the example there.
  156. [14:57:27] <tantek> yes they get concatenated
  157. [14:57:29] <Zeeshan_M> It collaspes the space/style period
  158. [14:57:29] <BenWard> tantek: Including (0) is a long established published form here
  159. [14:58:14] <BenWard> It is technically redundant, but Zeeshan_M is correct in it indicating the national form of the number to people who don't use international prefixes.
  160. [14:58:39] <BenWard> The value-excerpting-pattern nicely accomodates it.
  161. [15:01:23] <Zeeshan_M> re: http://rafb.net/p/QUTJfZ35.txt
  162. [15:01:34] <Zeeshan_M> Any improvements on that hCard?
  163. [15:01:56] <Zeeshan_M> Is there a wrapping method for grid references under geo?
  164. [15:02:14] <Zeeshan_M> Or a hint I can pass that the reference is of a grid reference?
  165. [15:02:21] <Zeeshan_M> re: <dd class="geo">We're located at <span class="latitude">52.274361</span>, <span class="longitude">-0.858867</span>. Grid reference of SP779646.
  166. [15:02:29] * tantek wonders when international phone #s and dates will replace myriad local variants.
  167. [15:03:13] <BenWard> Zeeshan_M: Geo is just lat/long
  168. [15:03:18] <Zeeshan_M> Ok
  169. [15:03:39] <Zeeshan_M> I checked the Wiki entry, but was hoping for guidance on the grid reference aspect.
  170. [15:04:12] <BenWard> The only thing I might remark on from your examples is that you're almost certainly not using definition lists right :-)
  171. [15:04:22] <Zeeshan_M> heh
  172. [15:04:38] <Zeeshan_M> I see key to value pairs, what do you feel the correct semantics are?
  173. [15:05:18] <Zeeshan_M> Should I also be using 'work' type for fax too?
  174. [15:05:25] <Zeeshan_M> Ie, "work fax"
  175. [15:05:36] <Zeeshan_M> Both numbers stated are for business/work usage
  176. [15:05:42] <BenWard> Alas, HTML4/XHTML1 has no element for key/value pairs. ‘We're located at’ is flowing text and could be part of a paragraph though.
  177. [15:05:53] <BenWard> You'd need to have <type> for each instance of <tel>
  178. [15:06:07] <Zeeshan_M> I have type for the msg and voice.
  179. [15:06:18] <Phae> Also, the <address> is dubious. Is that your hCard on your page? the <address> is reserved for page authors.
  180. [15:06:41] <Zeeshan_M> Should I also be adding work type to fax?
  181. [15:07:14] <Zeeshan_M> Phae, what do you mean?
  182. [15:07:25] <Phae> http://www.w3schools.com/TAGS/tag_address.asp for the simple
  183. [15:07:32] * myakura (n=myakura@p5047-ipbf1403marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  184. [15:07:57] <Zeeshan_M> This is the contact information!
  185. [15:08:14] <Phae> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/global.html#h-7.5.6
  186. [15:08:16] <Zeeshan_M> Text proceeding the marked up content:
  187. [15:08:17] <Zeeshan_M> <h2><a name="contact">Contacting us</a></h2>
  188. [15:08:17] <Zeeshan_M> <p>If you have any comments, questions or suggestions regarding our web site's privacy policy; please contact us via one of the following methods:</p>
  189. [15:08:18] <Phae> I was just checking :P
  190. [15:08:27] <Phae> It's not clear from a snippet, and it's often misused.
  191. [15:08:31] <Zeeshan_M> Nod
  192. [15:09:35] <Zeeshan_M> BenWard, to clarify, I have used types 'work' and 'voice' for my number which is for voice calls.
  193. [15:09:56] <Zeeshan_M> I now have another number, for fax usage, so I also use 'work' with that? Both of these two numbers are for business/work usage.
  194. [15:11:26] * BobJonkman (n=BobJonkm@206.208.226.139) has joined #microformats
  195. [15:14:15] <tantek> yes you may combine types
  196. [15:14:32] <tantek> in fact the default "type" for a "tel" property is a set of a values
  197. [15:14:43] <Zeeshan_M> I see
  198. [15:14:48] <Zeeshan_M> Thank you
  199. [15:17:57] * purp_ (n=jmeyer@64.74.221.28) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  200. [15:24:28] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  201. [15:25:24] * ajturner (n=ajturner@pool-71-191-160-85.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Quit ()
  202. [15:34:33] <maddiin> Phae: regarding the <adress> element, does that also mean to not use it inside hatom format for entry authors?
  203. [15:36:35] * pat-in-wv (n=pat-in-w@dpc693595205.direcpc.com) has joined #microformats
  204. [15:39:32] <BenWard> maddiin: If the entry author is also the owner of the page, it's fine. But when using any element with microformats, you've got to make sure you're using the HTML semantics correctly as well as the microformat ones. <address> is pretty specific, so in many cases it's inappropriate (it's also inline only, which is limiting from a content perspective)
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  208. [15:42:29] <maddiin> BenWard: I thought so, but was a little confused by the "Field and Element Details" section which says: "an Entry Author element SHOULD be encoded in an <address> element"
  209. [15:42:54] <BenWard> That's a little misleading I agree
  210. [15:44:01] <Phae> sorry. was afk. but what BenWard said ;)
  211. [15:46:40] <maddiin> is hatom also the preferred way to markup blog comments? I saw hcomment is deprecated.
  212. [15:48:17] <Phae> yeah, i've hAtom'd comments in the past.
  213. [15:48:23] <Phae> afaik, that's acceptable still.
  214. [15:48:28] * Phae waits for someone to correct
  215. [15:52:50] <BenWard> Yep, hAtom is good for comments
  216. [15:52:57] <BenWard> hComment was never really developed that far
  217. [15:54:59] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181192153.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  218. [15:54:59] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  220. [16:02:36] * ajturner (n=ajturner@209.155.231.126) has joined #microformats
  221. [16:02:36] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com and a neogeographer and is co-founder of Mapufacture
  222. [16:03:26] <maddiin> great, that makes it even more simple. then I just need to finish writing my blog app and there will be just another blog using microformats and cheerleading for it. :)
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  231. [16:26:40] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  244. [17:24:44] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  258. [17:52:20] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer at http://edgeofmyseat.com
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  283. [20:49:20] <jibot> bluesmoon is Philip <http://bluesmoon.info> & improves performance at Yahoo! & likes food & hacking & lives in the valley
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.