IRC Log for #microformats on 2009-06-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  55. [06:44:31] <mfbot> ChristopheDucamp edited licensing-formats-fr "[fr: sync'd with original version]" (+924) http://is.gd/MWmW
  56. [06:54:17] <mfbot> ChristopheDucamp edited operator-fr "[fr : sync'd with original version]" (+921) http://is.gd/MWI7
  57. [07:02:01] <mfbot> ChristopheDucamp edited principles-fr "[fr: sync'd with original version]" (+71) http://is.gd/MWZV
  58. [07:06:58] <mfbot> ChristopheDucamp created Template:main-fr "New page: <div style="text-indent:2em;font-style:italic">Article principal: [[{{{1}}}]]</div>" http://is.gd/MXbB
  59. [07:22:45] <mfbot> ChristopheDucamp created start-simple-fr "[fr : sync'd with original version]" http://is.gd/MXFi
  60. [07:24:00] <mfbot> ChristopheDucamp edited start-simple-fr "/* solve simpler problems first */ " (+86) http://is.gd/MXHS
  61. [07:24:55] <mfbot> ChristopheDucamp edited start-simple-fr "/* résoudre en priorité les problèmes les plus simples */ typo" (-2) http://is.gd/MXJx
  62. [07:25:04] * benward is now known as BenWard|away
  63. [07:26:32] <mfbot> ChristopheDucamp edited start-simple-fr "/* vocabulaire moderne */ " (+24) http://is.gd/MXNf
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  66. [07:44:35] <mfbot> ChristopheDucamp created minimal-vocabulary-fr "[fr: sync'd with original version- to be reviewed]]" http://is.gd/MYoI
  67. [07:44:58] <mfbot> ChristopheDucamp edited minimal-vocabulary-fr "typo" (+1) http://is.gd/MYpu
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  143. [16:32:25] <mfbot> Tantek edited start-simple-fr "/* résoudre en priorité les problèmes les plus simples */ fix use of main-fr template" (-4) http://is.gd/NhDl
  144. [16:32:48] <mfbot> Tantek edited start-simple-fr "/* vocabulaire moderne */ fix use of main-fr template" (-4) http://is.gd/NhEj
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  160. [17:24:21] <csarven> http://csarven.ca/labs/jetpack/representative-hcard.php is a simple Mozilla add-on that uses the Jetpack API https://jetpack.mozillalabs.com/ . It shows the vcard photo and fn of a representative hCard and offers a link to download the vCard. A little buggy. It may melt your laptop. =)
  161. [17:26:15] <singpolyma> csarven: class="url" rel="me" is sufficient to be representative, uid is a seperate rule
  162. [17:27:07] <csarven> So, I guess that can be removed. It is a separate rule for what exactly?
  163. [17:27:17] * jrodgers (n=jrodgers@spg-wks-bff2.uwaterloo.ca) Quit ()
  164. [17:27:19] <singpolyma> .vcard .url[rel=me] || .vcard .uid[href=window.location.href]
  165. [17:32:16] <csarven> I guess I should create different cases since there are bunch of proposals. Granted, .vcard .url.uid[rel=me] is pretty strict.
  166. [17:32:52] <singpolyma> :)
  167. [17:36:51] <csarven> Added return false onclick heh. That was annoying.
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  170. [17:39:43] <csarven> singpolyma If you installed it already, might want to uninstall, purge and install again.
  171. [17:43:16] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@c-76-21-5-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("Lost terminal")
  172. [17:44:42] <tantek> csarven, don't worry about the multiple proposals - simply follow the steps in http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-hcard-parsing
  173. [17:46:16] <tantek> in short, 1. look for the first hCard with 1. uid=url=source, if none found, then 2. look for the first hCard with rel="me" on a class="url"
  174. [17:51:08] <mfbot> Tantek edited to-do "/* Spelling */ recognise(d) -> recognize(d)" (+210) http://is.gd/NlkU
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  180. [18:08:21] <csarven> singpolyma tantek Will do, thanks.
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  187. [18:18:50] <mfbot> Tantek edited representative-hcard-brainstorming "explicitly separate current proposal from other proposals to better clarify and hopefully reduce confusion about possible existence of a bunch of proposals, update user scenario for current proposal" (+2935) http://is.gd/NmBQ
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  189. [18:22:40] <csarven> tantek Must a page with a hCard be a candidate for a representative hCard of that page? Am I understanding this correctly?
  190. [18:24:00] <csarven> Nope, nevermind.
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  194. [18:50:48] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcard-issues-resolved "/* 2006 */ resolved last open hCard issue from 2006" (+2591) http://is.gd/No3w
  195. [19:22:30] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcard-issues-resolved "/* 2007 */ resolve 2007 hCard issues" (+6052) http://is.gd/NpzF
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  212. [21:16:14] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcard "/* Property List */ sorted optional properties, added "agent" which had somehow been omitted." (+23) http://is.gd/NuEu
  213. [21:22:21] <mfbot> Tantek created minimum-vocabulary "redir" http://is.gd/NuTm
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  216. [21:50:24] <mfbot> Tantek edited value-class-pattern "/* Date and time parsing */ allow optional leading 0, and optional minutes for time zone offset, per authoring suggestion of "GMT -5" by Jakob Nielsen in http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9608.html" (+416) http://is.gd/Nw7i
  217. [21:52:10] <mfbot> Tantek edited value-class-pattern "added informative references section with link to Jakob's article on International Web Usability" (+140) http://is.gd/Nwc1
  218. [21:56:34] <mfbot> Tantek edited value-class-pattern "/* Implementations */ Optimus implements value-title" (+156) http://is.gd/NwmB
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  223. [22:13:09] <mfbot> Tantek edited internationalization "noted see also [[en-us-faq]] and [[minimal-vocabulary]] principle, and [[value-class-pattern]] solved remaining internationalization issues, cleaned up references a bit" (+880) http://is.gd/Nx26
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  226. [22:18:44] <mfbot> Tantek edited minimal-vocabulary "more precisely named the "renaming anti-pattern" (unintendedirony)" (+146) http://is.gd/Nxet
  227. [22:21:24] <mfbot> Tantek edited en-us-faq "added see also section and several inline references, numbered additional answers" (+697) http://is.gd/NxkV
  228. [22:21:58] <mfbot> Tantek edited en-us-faq "no need to see also the current page" (-16) http://is.gd/Nxmm
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  231. [22:33:29] <mfbot> Tantek edited en-us-faq "missing </blockquote>" (+13) http://is.gd/NxOV
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  234. [23:13:19] <mfbot> Tantek edited Template:issues-format "changed use of hCalendar to hAtom, as issues are not really human level "events" that are attended etc., displaying them on a calendar doesn't make any sense. but reading them as a feed makes sense." (+139) http://is.gd/Nzj1
  235. [23:15:47] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcard-issues-resolved "/* resolved issues */ resolve 2008 hCard issues, fix User:: links to be User: links." (+25123) http://is.gd/NzoE
  236. [23:17:18] <benward> tantek: Note that each wiki entry is already marked up as hAtom, so you need to ensure that each issues list has a surrounding <div class=hfeed> to segregate it
  237. [23:18:18] <tantek> is such segregation necessary?
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  239. [23:18:39] <tantek> I mean if you "subscribe" to a page - wouldn't it be nice to get the updates of individual items of that page?
  240. [23:18:54] <benward> Fair enough
  241. [23:19:05] <benward> Erm, what do parses do with nested hAtom at present?
  242. [23:19:09] <tantek> or is this just a case where we need to specify what happens with nested hentry elements?
  243. [23:19:48] <tantek> I'm thinking it might be better to allow nested hentry elements to be part of the same (possibly implied) hfeed - since explicit containment can always be done with intervening hfeed markup
  244. [23:23:20] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcard-issues-resolved "make unique headings for each year for closed vs resolved, tweak new page(s) notes wording for better clarity" (+63) http://is.gd/NzFS
  245. [23:24:14] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcard-issues-resolved "fix another errant User:: link" (-1) http://is.gd/NzI2
  246. [23:24:18] <benward> Yes. But do parsers currently treat nested hentries as opaque blocks? Or will entry-title in a nested hatom override the entry-title of the main entry?
  247. [23:24:29] <benward> They _should_ be opaque blocks
  248. [23:24:29] <singpolyma> Seems like defining behaviours for nested hAtom based on the wiki's needs is a bit not awesome
  249. [23:24:40] <tantek> agreed they _should_ be opaque blocks
  250. [23:24:52] <benward> But as it stands, this is undefined new behaviour
  251. [23:24:53] <tantek> Benward, perhaps you can add that to http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues
  252. [23:24:56] <singpolyma> Making them opaque blocks is hard, I expect many do not
  253. [23:24:58] <tantek> with a proposed resolution
  254. [23:25:19] <benward> singpolyma: Yes, I fully expect it's not been implemented that way.
  255. [23:25:22] <tantek> singpolyma hCard parsers already do this with AGENT
  256. [23:25:32] <benward> tantek: Err… some of them do.
  257. [23:25:51] <tantek> the ones that don't should be noted as such in http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-implementations
  258. [23:26:27] <tantek> and with that, all currently open outstanding hCard issues have been resolved
  259. [23:26:29] <benward> AGENT was an ignored property for a long time, it used to be actively downplayed within this community because vcard consumers didn't support it. I've no idea what the current support make-up looks like
  260. [23:26:51] <singpolyma> Having done a "right" opaque impl of hAtom in ruby for my previous employer, it also slows the parser down a lot with most XML/HTML processors (because you have to search parents to make sure they are not the thing that must be opaque)
  261. [23:27:10] <singpolyma> What is AGENT for?
  262. [23:27:39] <benward> They are sub-entities that serve/represent the main vcard
  263. [23:28:11] <singpolyma> interesting
  264. [23:28:12] <benward> In business context, the main vcard could be, for example ‘Dana B. Lawyer’
  265. [23:28:35] <tantek> singpolyma - an instance is not a proof of course - there may be better implementations out there that don't have that problem. check out the options at http://microformats.org/wiki/parsers
  266. [23:28:35] <benward> and her vcard contains an AGENT for “Joe Secretary”
  267. [23:29:07] <benward> It is, someone who acts as an ‘agent’ of the main person.
  268. [23:29:24] <singpolyma> tantek: sure, I'm willing to conceed that I may just suck at writing XPath :)
  269. [23:29:37] <tantek> singpolyma - since you asked the question "What is AGENT for?" perhaps you could add it and benward's answer to http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-faq
  270. [23:29:46] <singpolyma> benward: Interesting...
  271. [23:30:01] <singpolyma> tantek: will do
  272. [23:30:08] <tantek> singpolyma - much thanks!
  273. [23:31:00] <benward> Agent has a lot of interesting cases
  274. [23:31:33] <benward> We published one in the blog entry for Google's Rich Snippets. “Google” was the hCard, and the three Rich Snippet developers were AGENTs.
  275. [23:32:36] <benward> It fits into my containers concepting a bit. For example, could you, by default, imply that the organization-name for a listed AGENT is the same as for the parent hCard? Thereby sharing it between them?
  276. [23:32:46] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcard-issues "resolved all open issues - see [[hcard-issues-resolved]]." (-24290) http://is.gd/NA2C
  277. [23:33:23] <benward> There are cases where it's not: Your personal assistant could be contracted to you, not to your company, but it's a scenario/content optimization that's interesting to me at present.
  278. [23:33:25] <singpolyma> benward: it seems like AGENT is more in line with what XFN is for
  279. [23:33:37] <benward> XFN is about social relationships
  280. [23:33:44] <benward> Agent is an organizational relationship.
  281. [23:33:51] <mfbot> Singpolyma edited hcard-faq "What is AGENT?" (+246) http://is.gd/NA5r
  282. [23:33:52] <benward> Or, a representational relationship, rather
  283. [23:34:07] <tantek> benward - I'm not sure that argument is sufficient (social)
  284. [23:34:17] <tantek> as XFN of course has "colleague" and "coworker"
  285. [23:34:19] <hober> well, it has co-worker and colleague, seems like agent could fit in
  286. [23:34:24] <benward> Oh, that's true
  287. [23:34:27] <tantek> right hober
  288. [23:34:48] <benward> There's perhaps case for exploring use of AGENT in combination with XFN
  289. [23:35:22] <tantek> XFN is for relationships *across* pages
  290. [23:35:46] <tantek> AGENT and the containment work is for some relationships in the same page
  291. [23:35:51] <tantek> so that's one key difference
  292. [23:36:04] <benward> Here's a jump, but interesting, <a class='agent' rel='co-worker' href='http://mycompany.com/people/james-doe'>James Doe</a>
  293. [23:36:33] <benward> Lots of stuff to document under brainstorming, anyway
  294. [23:38:14] <mfbot> Tantek created hcard-issues-closed "drafted" http://is.gd/NAfu
  295. [23:40:58] <tantek> benward, that is interesting. note that that could only work for the representative-hcard for the page, since XFN values are between pages.
  296. [23:44:11] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcard-issues-resolved "moved closed issues to [[hcard-issues-closed]], added see also section." (-2279) http://is.gd/NAul
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