IRC Log for #openid on 2007-09-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [02:32:53] <melvster__>
hi all - what's the easiest library to run a multi user openid server?
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- [02:34:50] <melvster__>
im guessing it's the janrain PHP server
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- [02:39:47] <melvster__>
will try and build this tomorrow...
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- [10:32:12] <digitalspaghetti>
is the OPenID 2 spec pretty stable?
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- [12:17:14] <melvster>
openid2 is still in draft
- [12:17:33] <melvster>
draft 12 is hoped to be the last
- [12:19:17] <digitalspaghetti>
cool, so i can build my server around spec 2 then
- [12:19:27] <melvster>
not sure about that
- [12:19:35] <melvster>
it's something i wondered myself
- [12:20:13] <melvster>
personally im going to wait a bit
- [12:20:32] <melvster>
what server do you run at the moment?
- [12:23:23] <digitalspaghetti>
the PHP-Server on 1.1
- [12:24:09] <digitalspaghetti>
i'm wanting to write a server app for my own site, but it'll be open source, in cakephp
- [12:35:13] <melvster>
cool!
- [12:42:24] <melvster>
i wrote a standalone server in one file
- [12:42:29] <melvster>
from existing glp code
- [12:42:33] <melvster>
it's pretty easy
- [12:43:24] <digitalspaghetti>
yea, i've started looking over the code. I'm gonna keep it pretty simplistic, but at the same time customisable
- [12:43:55] <melvster>
the simplest is phpmyid i think
- [12:46:28] <melvster>
this is my version: http://www.melvster.com/index.php?show=3
- [12:46:42] <melvster>
i want to make it multi user though
- [12:46:56] <melvster>
not quite sure of the best way
- [12:47:11] <melvster>
i was thinking of making the password check into a function
- [12:47:50] <melvster>
or i might try the janrain php library, im not sure which is best?
- [12:47:52] <digitalspaghetti>
is that all your running at that url?
- [12:48:10] <melvster>
yeah, for the moment, it's just a homepage and my openid of course
- [12:48:20] <melvster>
only set it up last week
- [12:48:27] <digitalspaghetti>
pastebin.digitalspaghetti.me.uk :)
- [12:48:30] <digitalspaghetti>
me to
- [12:48:43] <melvster>
pastebin is great
- [12:49:19] <digitalspaghetti>
openid.digitalspaghetti.me.uk too :)
- [12:49:47] <melvster>
wow - nice site!
- [12:50:22] <digitalspaghetti>
i might have to download your code and look at it :)
- [12:51:00] <melvster>
it's just a concat of the myphpid files
- [12:51:22] <melvster>
but it works out of the box with just one file, which i havent seen anywhere else
- [12:51:48] <melvster>
ok lets see if i can log in to your site
- [12:53:06] <melvster>
worked!
- [12:53:19] <melvster>
i think you should strip off http:// in the username for new users
- [12:53:35] <melvster>
i signed in as melvster.com but the suggested username contained http://
- [12:54:38] <digitalspaghetti>
thats the module, not myself
- [12:54:58] <digitalspaghetti>
also an openid should be conatinated (i.e http://digitalspaghetti.me.uk/) - notice the trailing slash too
- [12:55:14] <melvster>
i see
- [12:55:34] <melvster>
but in a login box you dont need to put in the http:// i think according to the spec
- [12:56:00] <digitalspaghetti>
true, thats up to the client to handle
- [12:56:06] <melvster>
btw the username/password if test/test but you can change that at the top of the file
- [12:56:32] <melvster>
for the file i showed you
- [12:56:52] <melvster>
it's a pretty nice site you've got there!
- [12:57:02] <melvster>
you're from the uk?
- [12:58:06] <digitalspaghetti>
yea
- [12:59:12] <melvster>
me too
- [12:59:34] <melvster>
love your login box on your front page
- [12:59:43] <melvster>
reminds me of www.surbiton.com
- [13:00:40] <melvster>
is that a standard library, the fadeout effect is awesome
- [13:00:40] <digitalspaghetti>
it's a drupal module, i never coded it :)
- [13:00:45] <melvster>
ahhh
- [13:00:51] <digitalspaghetti>
that'll be jQuery
- [13:00:51] * Loolyan65 (i=Al@gateway/tor/x-05aeca1b6a2b5eb8) has joined #openid
- [13:01:41] <melvster>
drupal seems to be so ahead of other projects
- [13:01:52] <melvster>
i wish they'd hurry up and finish the openid mod for phpbb
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- [13:04:13] <digitalspaghetti>
That module is 3rd party, but Drupal 6 has it in the core
- [13:04:23] <melvster>
awesome
- [13:04:24] <digitalspaghetti>
also supports more than one openid per user
- [13:04:51] <melvster>
that's a good feature
- [13:05:05] <melvster>
i think it will become common
- [13:16:13] <digitalspaghetti>
Intersting: http://esoeproject.org/
- [13:18:27] <melvster>
interesting, hadnt seen that before
- [13:19:47] <digitalspaghetti>
me neither
- [13:26:52] <melvster>
video is pretty good
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- [17:08:08] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) has joined #openid
- [17:08:08] <jibot>
evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
- [17:08:41] * digitalspaghetti (n=digitals@host217-37-122-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit ()
- [17:10:06] <don-o>
im using PIP's seatbelt and its cool.
- [17:10:18] <don-o>
its not open source though.
- [17:10:34] <don-o>
im thinking of taking a whack at an open source equivalent.
- [17:10:53] <don-o>
has it already been done? is that even a good idea?
- [17:17:03] * SunWuKung (i=SunWuKun@S01060016cbc4c705.vc.shawcable.net) Quit ("Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up.")
- [17:19:53] <melvster>
theres definitely some firefox openid talk
- [17:20:00] <melvster>
not sure if it's been done already OS
- [17:20:27] <melvster>
havent tried pip, what do you like about it?
- [17:20:53] <melvster>
might give it a go - how do you get one?
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- [17:25:35] * martin-t (n=martin-t@smtp.ninginc.com) has joined #openid
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- [17:33:29] <don-o>
melvster: the firefox 3 status page shows the built-in single signon stuff is 'in danger of being cut'
- [17:33:57] <don-o>
melvster: which is what got me interested in openid again. (i had ignored it for about 6 months)
- [17:34:23] <don-o>
melvster: see https://pip.verisignlabs.com/ for the FF extension
- [17:35:12] <don-o>
melvster: what i like is that its one way to solve the achille's heel of openid which is trusting the identity consumer to redirect you to the identity provided and not a spoofed identity provider.
- [17:35:41] <don-o>
melvster: i think it can be even more though. id like to pretty much auto-login to openid sites that ive logged into before.
- [17:36:02] <keturn>
don-o: I was just going to say "oh, I was just talking to someone about that last week"
- [17:36:09] <keturn>
and then I realized it was you ;-)
- [17:36:37] <don-o>
keturn: ah you were talking at the web inovator's meeting?
- [17:36:50] <keturn>
yeah
- [17:37:00] <don-o>
cool. now i can match the face to the nick.
- [17:38:14] * keturn is one of those Kevins.
- [17:43:57] * don-o is trying to get the oauth guys to fix their wiki.
- [17:45:56] <don-o>
why does the PHP and Python openid libs have version 2 editions and not the ruby lib?
- [17:46:05] <don-o>
(from openidenabled.com)
- [17:46:50] <keturn>
because there are, on a good day, two of us working on the libs right now, and neither of us is exactly fluent in ruby. I'll get to it, but it's going to take a little bit.
- [17:47:17] * don-o nods
- [17:47:37] <don-o>
am i right in assuming the v2.x number signifies support for the openid spec v2?
- [17:48:22] <keturn>
roughly. I mean, we released 2.x libs before the 2.x spec was final, so it's a little fuzzy.
- [17:50:00] <keturn>
We believe the latest python snapshot implements draft 12, but I'm hoping for a little feedback from other draft 12 implementations before I cut a release. And we're working on getting PHP to that point now.
- [17:53:17] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
- [17:56:22] <pfak>
Anyone know of a simple PHp script that would let me test to see if an OpenID provider is working properly? =\
- [18:00:41] * digitalspaghetti (n=Digispag@host217-37-122-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #openid
- [18:01:33] * digitalspaghetti is reading over draught 12 so he can start designing his app
- [18:02:25] <openid_pibb>
<cygnus> http://www.openidenabled.com/resources/openid-test/diagnose-server
- [18:03:10] <digitalspaghetti>
oh, I'm mobile just now so I can't read it, jMirc won't let me click links :(
- [18:03:54] * Loolyan65 (i=Al@gateway/tor/x-05aeca1b6a2b5eb8) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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- [18:04:00] <keturn>
oh, shucks, I missed evan. I was going to poke him about a new release.
- [18:04:22] <digitalspaghetti>
its a bit dry, these specs :)
- [18:04:47] <digitalspaghetti>
I need to have a poke about in the example code with v2 library
- [18:06:13] <melvster>
hi pfak
- [18:06:15] <melvster>
i have one
- [18:06:37] * Loolyan65 (i=Al@gateway/tor/x-f36e834a853a956e) has joined #openid
- [18:06:49] <digitalspaghetti>
hey melvster
- [18:06:52] <melvster>
hi!
- [18:07:08] <melvster>
openid being cut from firefox3? oh no!
- [18:07:15] <melvster>
why did they decide to do that?
- [18:07:59] <digitalspaghetti>
maybe it's not finished in time for the release?
- [18:12:14] <openid_pibb>
<cygnus> or maybe it's totally unclear what OpenID support in FF actually means.
- [18:15:17] <digitalspaghetti>
an open version of verisign's PIP would be nice
- [18:26:11] <pfak>
We were looking to implement PIP on our IDP and never saw a real reason ..
- [18:26:20] <melvster>
i just signed up to pip
- [18:26:49] <melvster>
it seems to have an openid server sreg and this seatbelt thingy
- [18:27:05] <pfak>
Yeah, we didn't feel like implement it into the OpenSSO OpenID extension ..
- [18:27:08] <pfak>
maybe in the future.
- [18:27:23] <digitalspaghetti>
its pretty easy to support, I'm building support into my server app
- [18:27:38] <pfak>
Haha, yeah but you don't have to run through a bunch of testing before implementing it :-)
- [18:28:26] <digitalspaghetti>
what do you think of the name SwearBy for an openid server app?
- [18:28:34] <pfak>
We're not a public IDP anyways, so ..
- [18:30:35] <don-o>
digitalspaghetti: sounds like you'd have to put your right hand on a bible in order to sign up.
- [18:31:32] * digitalspaghetti bible is The God Delusion
- [18:31:43] <melvster>
lol
- [18:31:57] <melvster>
isnt that a book?
- [18:31:57] <digitalspaghetti>
I put "trust" into a thesorus and that's a suggestion it came up with
- [18:31:59] <don-o>
cygnus: i think you're right. the FF team probably got confused and frustrated as to what FF actually has to do to support SSO.
- [18:32:25] <melvster>
arg - that's a pity
- [18:32:46] <don-o>
the seatbelt plugin and those that follow are where the experimentation will happen
- [18:33:00] <digitalspaghetti>
melvster, yea richard dawkins book. I'm a humanist :)
- [18:33:06] <melvster>
i see
- [18:33:21] <melvster>
dawkins the mad professor from oxford
- [18:33:38] <melvster>
i was going to write to him with my proof of the existence of god - but i never got round to it :)
- [18:33:44] * don-o takes his first drinks of the cardspace spec
- [18:33:49] <digitalspaghetti>
he's not mad! He is the professor for the advancment of Sciences :p
- [18:34:43] <melvster>
sorry didnt mean to offend
- [18:34:50] <digitalspaghetti>
that SSO app I posted earlier or looked good. Provided a link between LDAP and OpenID
- [18:35:05] <digitalspaghetti>
melvster: just winding you up :p
- [18:36:10] <digitalspaghetti>
don-o, I agree - I think an extention for it would be fine for now
- [18:36:25] <melvster>
looking at my PIP acct. i see VIP credential and Information Card - is one of them part of seatbelt?
- [18:36:27] <don-o>
digitalspaghetti: have you used seatbelt?
- [18:36:31] <digitalspaghetti>
look at Operator, it was an extention for uf's, now its core FF3
- [18:36:34] * tbbrown (n=tbbrown@cpe-66-68-116-207.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #openid
- [18:36:44] <don-o>
digitalspaghetti: uf?
- [18:36:47] <digitalspaghetti>
don-o, yep added it to my server
- [18:36:56] <digitalspaghetti>
microformats
- [18:37:06] <don-o>
ah. 'u' :)
- [18:37:06] <pfak>
Firefox is getting more and more bloated =\
- [18:37:08] <digitalspaghetti>
I dunno how to do the mu symbol :)
- [18:37:45] <digitalspaghetti>
today it was sitting at 640mb in my res memory :(
- [18:37:49] <don-o>
melvster: VIP credential is the real-world keychain fob. InfoCard is support for CardSpace
- [18:38:06] <don-o>
melvster: seatbelt just plugs into FF. you dont even need a PIP account.
- [18:38:13] <melvster>
thanks don!
- [18:38:45] <openid_pibb>
<cygnus> ** cygnus idly wonders if digitalspaghetti is a disciple of the FSM.
- [18:38:45] <digitalspaghetti>
I'm gonna write a blog about it, as verisign don't publicly have the seatbelt.xml file online
- [18:38:46] <don-o>
digitalspaghetti: added seatbelt 'to your server'? i dont know what you mean since its a FF plugin
- [18:38:55] <pfak>
don-o: there's server side support for seatbelt.
- [18:39:05] <pfak>
Your identity information and your login state.
- [18:39:15] <don-o>
pfak: interesting
- [18:39:26] <pfak>
Which is why I never bothered to implement it on Sun OpenID.
- [18:39:32] <digitalspaghetti>
they basically send you a zip file with a sample one and a textfile and you need to figure it out yourself
- [18:39:37] <digitalspaghetti>
don-o, the config file so PIP will ue my server
- [18:39:42] <pfak>
Yeah, the documentation is lacking ..
- [18:40:32] <digitalspaghetti>
at the moment, my file is hardcoded because the php-server 1.1 needs a re-write to support it properly
- [18:40:50] <pfak>
I should bother Paul Bryan to write PIP support into the OpenID extension for OpenSSO ..
- [18:41:00] <digitalspaghetti>
I couldn't get the server to generate the proper output
- [18:43:20] <digitalspaghetti>
and I didn't see a point fixing it, I'll just write it into my own server implementation
- [18:43:30] <don-o>
is opensso another SSO standard? i cant tell from the web page or FAQ
- [18:44:46] <don-o>
where is there docs on server-side support for seatbelt? i dont see anything about it on https://pip.verisignlabs.com/seatbelt.do
- [18:45:15] <digitalspaghetti>
don-o they don't have them online, I'll email then to you if you like
- [18:45:23] <don-o>
digitalspaghetti: please do. don.park at gmail
- [18:45:36] <digitalspaghetti>
k, brb
- [18:45:43] <don-o>
digitalspaghetti: unless they come with some horrible NDA or something
- [18:45:43] * digitalspaghetti (n=Digispag@host217-37-122-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit ("jmIrc destroyed by the OS")
- [18:46:22] <don-o>
seatbelt is a cute name for the plugin. what is an equally cute name for a similar opensource project?
- [18:46:55] * digitalspaghetti (n=Digispag@host217-37-122-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #openid
- [18:47:07] <digitalspaghetti>
k, don-o, sent
- [18:48:25] <don-o>
digitalspaghetti: got it thx
- [18:49:53] <don-o>
sigh. whatever is in that config file is probably important enough to be in the openid spec
- [18:50:42] <don-o>
there are no synonyms for seatbelt, according to m-w.com
- [18:51:06] <digitalspaghetti>
I've set mine up at https://openid.digitalspaghetti.me.uk/seatbelt.xml
- [18:51:21] <digitalspaghetti>
if you want to see a live example
- [18:52:44] <don-o>
digitalspaghetti: just looked at the website. what are your plans?
- [18:53:10] * Digispag (n=Digispag@host217-37-122-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com) has joined #openid
- [18:53:28] * digitalspaghetti (n=Digispag@host217-37-122-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
- [18:53:44] * Digispag is now known as digitalspaghetti
- [18:54:50] <digitalspaghetti>
the problem I have is my deligation alias
- [18:56:04] <digitalspaghetti>
my openid id is http://digitalspaghett.me.uk/ which is my site url, and I deligate to https://openid.digitalspaghetti.me.uk/?user=digitalspaghetti, its the secone one that the server outputs in the xml file for seatbelt
- [18:56:11] <don-o>
helmet probably wouldnt be a good project name
- [18:56:51] <digitalspaghetti>
I somehow need the server to hold the alias and use that
- [18:57:47] <don-o>
digitalspaghetti: is your id provider open to the public? do you expect to make $ from it?
- [18:58:01] * Loolyan65 (i=Al@gateway/tor/x-f36e834a853a956e) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [18:58:05] <digitalspaghetti>
no, its my own private one for now
- [18:58:43] <digitalspaghetti>
I'm writing a new server using cakephp, and I might run a service using that, but not to make $
- [18:59:06] <digitalspaghetti>
I'd just have some adsense to cover any server costs
- [18:59:52] <don-o>
cake? my apologies.
- [19:00:09] <digitalspaghetti>
cakephp, its a mvc framework
- [19:00:13] <don-o>
i used it once for a project and am quite jaded about the experience.
- [19:00:30] <digitalspaghetti>
oh, did you use 1.1?
- [19:00:46] <don-o>
yes.
- [19:00:56] <don-o>
i guess that should say my condolences rather than my apologies
- [19:01:01] <digitalspaghetti>
its improved A LOT since then
- [19:01:38] <don-o>
some other project seems to be popular, i think its this one http://akelos.org/
- [19:02:05] <digitalspaghetti>
yea, I looked at that, but I'm happy to stick with what I know
- [19:02:13] * don-o nods
- [19:02:28] * peace-keeper (n=peace-ke@static-68-162-255-8.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #openid
- [19:02:40] <digitalspaghetti>
and I know where your coming from 1.1 was incomplete and a bitch to work with
- [19:04:30] * digitalspaghetti (n=Digispag@host217-37-122-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [19:20:28] * Loolyan65 (i=Al@gateway/tor/x-c4cc52aa13be3f96) has joined #openid
- [19:23:52] <melvster>
thought of a cool name for your OS project
- [19:25:10] <melvster>
darn he's gone
- [19:25:57] <don-o>
melvster: yeah but i come back. :)
- [19:27:45] <melvster>
heh - here's my idea for an OS project name
- [19:27:52] <melvster>
proxide.org
- [19:27:58] <melvster>
it's a play on words
- [19:28:18] <melvster>
PROX (proxy) ID (ID) proxide (PEROXIDE)
- [19:28:36] <melvster>
and the domain is available
- [19:28:43] <melvster>
.orgs are real cheap
- [19:33:03] <don-o>
ha. thats cute except peroxide burns your skin
- [19:33:08] <don-o>
not really a friendly word
- [19:33:27] <johill>
and it makes your hair blonde too ;)
- [19:33:39] <johill>
or yellow if you have dark hear..
- [19:34:58] <don-o>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/donpdonp/67336678/in/set-1453224/
- [19:35:07] * digitalspaghetti (n=digitals@86.158.67.185) has joined #openid
- [19:35:07] <don-o>
i have dark hair :)
- [19:36:39] <johill>
I see you know of the effects :)
- [19:37:03] <don-o>
seatbelt is really good because people do it every day and it means security
- [19:37:08] <don-o>
lapbelt perhaps
- [19:37:43] <don-o>
then again seatbelt implies an accident.:)
- [19:37:49] <johill>
heh
- [19:39:38] <digitalspaghetti>
yea, the name sucks
- [19:39:42] <don-o>
idbelt
- [19:40:08] <digitalspaghetti>
holy crap!
- [19:40:35] <digitalspaghetti>
my website traffic is the highest it's ever been
- [19:41:43] <digitalspaghetti>
i have to say, seatbelt's anti-phishing is a bit overzelious
- [19:42:41] <melvster>
hey digitalspaghetti
- [19:43:33] <melvster>
i thought of a name for an open source project
- [19:44:34] <melvster>
proxide.org
- [19:44:35] <melvster>
it's a play on words
- [19:44:37] <melvster>
PROX (proxy) ID (ID) proxide (PEROXIDE)
- [19:44:38] <melvster>
and the domain is available
- [19:45:06] <melvster>
what's the project going to be?
- [19:45:06] <digitalspaghetti>
ooh, cool
- [19:45:54] <digitalspaghetti>
well my project is a OpenID2 server thats pretty customisable
- [19:46:05] <melvster>
sounds neat
- [19:46:20] <digitalspaghetti>
also gives a user a page that contains a MicroID, so it can be validated against services such as ClaimID
- [19:47:55] <melvster>
what exactly is a microid?
- [19:48:11] <_keturn>
we've had requests for that feature too, but I don't quite get it, since claimID validates OpenIDs too
- [19:48:39] <melvster>
oh from the jabber guy
- [19:49:28] <melvster>
i see you put in a meta tag
- [19:49:34] <melvster>
pretty smart
- [19:50:22] <digitalspaghetti>
yea, my module for drupal generates a microid for users with their content, comments and profile
- [19:50:44] <melvster>
sha1?
- [19:51:21] <melvster>
i guess it doesnt matter
- [19:51:31] <digitalspaghetti>
supports sha1 and sha256
- [19:51:54] <digitalspaghetti>
but it only generates based on email at the moment, i need to wait for Drupal 6 for openid support
- [19:55:21] <melvster>
you know there are some openid2 libraries already out there, yes?
- [19:55:27] <melvster>
rcs
- [19:56:43] <melvster>
im going to try and implement a 1.1 server now
- [19:57:13] <melvster>
im guessing janrain is the easiest multi user php library?
- [19:58:41] <digitalspaghetti>
yea, i have the JanRail 2-rc2
- [19:58:49] <melvster>
ah ok
- [20:06:02] * marclaport1 (n=Marc_Lap@ACER-1004WTMi.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Connection timed out)
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- [20:38:52] <chowells79>
haha. It's a common typo, but the name of our company is still not JanRail. :)
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- [22:19:32] <openid_pibb>
<Blueberry> If they were JanRail they'd not have such a hard time with ruby :P
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- [22:27:00] <openid_pibb>
<cygnus> Do we have a hard time with ruby? :)
- [22:49:25] * marclaport1 (n=Marc_Lap@bas3-montreal02-1096690275.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #openid
- [23:03:06] <openid_pibb>
<Blueberry> Well, earlier in this thread there was talk of how nobody at janrain is especially good at ruby and thats why the ruby libraries didn't implement the draft 12 proposal
- [23:04:09] <openid_pibb>
<keturn> I wasn't speaking for everyone, just for the two of us working on libs right now
- [23:09:26] <openid_pibb>
<Blueberry> Ooh
- [23:09:27] <openid_pibb>
<Blueberry> Sorry other kevin :)
- [23:16:47] <openid_pibb>
<cygnus> The other reason ruby is lagging behind, relatively speaking, is because the python and PHP libraries have long been up-to-date with whatever the recent draft was, and *many* months of labor went into making them that way. so ruby has a *lot* of catching up to do, and not just with the recent draft.
- [23:17:49] <openid_pibb>
<cygnus> well, recent draft being d11.
- [23:27:11] <openid_pibb>
<Blueberry> Fun fun
- [23:39:25] * Loolyan65 (i=Al@gateway/tor/x-b8fbcdb72386d234) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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