IRC Log for #openid on 2008-01-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  3. [00:21:20] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius
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  12. [00:59:06] <jibot> VxJasonxV is just another OpenID fan. Though he understands Yadis and follows it's progression.
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  32. [04:32:06] <PibbRelay> <Blueberry> that's completely correct, digitalxero. But it's quite intended. If a user comes and provides a different ID url, it's none of your business if they've already used your site with a different url or not, according to the specs
  33. [04:32:32] <PibbRelay> <Blueberry> You could use some kind of cookie tracking, but that would stink as two user's couldn't share the same computer
  34. [04:33:34] <PibbRelay> <Blueberry> In fact, you will never be able to reliably track your users until they all have RFID chips implanted in their hands, and their mice all have rfid readers. You can bet then there will be a mouse modchip market though to provide phoney id numbers :)
  35. [04:34:43] * stub (n=stub@canonical/launchpad/stub) has joined #openid
  36. [04:36:03] <PibbRelay> <Blueberry> And yes, that does also mean a spammer can rather easily create their own IDP, and log in to your site one million times with one million different id's, but that was still the case in the old registration model too
  37. [04:36:13] <PibbRelay> <Blueberry> and you solve it the same way's, maybe a captcha?
  38. [04:39:26] * VxJasonxV (n=jason@xmms2/troll/VxJasonxV) has joined #openid
  39. [04:39:26] <jibot> VxJasonxV is just another OpenID fan. Though he understands Yadis and follows it's progression.
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  57. [06:44:59] * nateritter (n=nateritt@cpe-76-88-34-41.san.res.rr.com) has joined #openid
  58. [06:45:43] <nateritter> is there any reason a tiny niche site should consider having a user/pass auth in addition to openid? I'm thinking of ONLY using openid.
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  63. [06:54:29] <tjohns> Well, at a minimum, make sure that a user can assign more than one OpenID to their account, just in case they switch IDs later
  64. [06:55:08] <tjohns> So, that probably involves some sort of identifier for users (even if it's a database record ID that's never displayed to users)
  65. [06:55:35] <nateritter> Sure, I already have a 'members' table and an 'openids' table.
  66. [06:55:52] <nateritter> the members table currently has a space for username/password but i'm a simple guy. :)
  67. [06:55:53] <tjohns> Other than that, it sounds like a good idea to me. :)
  68. [06:56:15] <nateritter> I figure hey, if they're going to have to sign up for something new, why not make them sign up for openid. :)
  69. [06:56:56] <nateritter> it kills lots of birds with one stone... just a few of those birds are mine though... i like helping the community, but just not sure of what to be aware of. I haven't seen many that only allow openid logins.
  70. [06:57:40] <GabeW> hi nate
  71. [06:58:04] <nateritter> Gabe.. sup man?
  72. [06:58:13] <GabeW> well, we were talking in twitter land
  73. [06:58:14] <GabeW> but
  74. [06:58:15] <GabeW> hi
  75. [06:58:22] <GabeW> so multiple openid's is probably good
  76. [06:58:24] <nateritter> yea, exactly.
  77. [06:58:24] <GabeW> also email reset perhaps?
  78. [06:58:41] <GabeW> like "omfg, my openid is gone, HELP!"
  79. [06:58:55] <GabeW> its like another form of openid in a sense
  80. [06:59:04] <nateritter> not sure what you mean... if I only require openid, then email isn't necessary
  81. [06:59:08] <GabeW> well
  82. [06:59:08] <GabeW> yah
  83. [06:59:14] <nateritter> oh, so they can reset their openid provider?
  84. [06:59:17] <GabeW> but if you lose control of your openid, you lose your account
  85. [06:59:18] <GabeW> yes
  86. [06:59:21] <nateritter> gotcha
  87. [06:59:23] <nateritter> hmm.
  88. [06:59:23] <GabeW> so they can assign a different openid
  89. [06:59:43] <nateritter> ok, i'll remember that. I think for rev 1 I'll skip it though.
  90. [06:59:45] <GabeW> its all basically a bundle of id's openid's plus email address(es)
  91. [06:59:47] <GabeW> yah
  92. [06:59:48] <GabeW> ok
  93. [06:59:51] <nateritter> I'll add that to the roadmap though
  94. [07:00:07] <GabeW> just be prepared for the "oh shit, i lost control of my openid"
  95. [07:00:19] <nateritter> hehe.. sure.
  96. [07:00:41] <nateritter> To be honest though.. I'm not sure how long I'll work on the project yet... it's a prototype project...
  97. [07:00:50] <GabeW> but got it
  98. [07:00:52] <GabeW> got it
  99. [07:00:54] <nateritter> If we sell out all 50 books, then I'll probably do it again and make improvements.
  100. [07:01:08] <nateritter> but if not, I might just sell the site as a whole turnkey biz to someone else.
  101. [07:01:20] <GabeW> hey nateritter - I'm thinknig about how something like twitter can be used for some grassroots obama stuff I'm doing...
  102. [07:01:34] <GabeW> because i can only make so many phone calls and keep my sanity
  103. [07:01:49] <nateritter> hahah..
  104. [07:02:44] <nateritter> what are you thinking about?
  105. [07:02:50] <GabeW> donno
  106. [07:03:03] <GabeW> this is totally the wrong channel
  107. [07:03:22] <GabeW> #twitter would be better
  108. [07:03:40] <nateritter> good call
  109. [07:03:43] <nateritter> opening both.
  110. [07:10:12] * stub (n=stub@ppp-58-8-6-162.revip2.asianet.co.th) has joined #openid
  111. [07:13:13] <Aleran> does anyone know of an up-to-date guide to using ruby-openid 2.0 with rails?
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  119. [08:10:34] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-98-207-134-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  120. [08:10:34] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius
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  124. [08:32:44] <nateritter> fwiw, i'm very happy to have made nateritter.com my own openid url. I'm stoked to begin using it. Thanks for the support here. :)
  125. [08:36:12] <GabeW> yer welcome, I guess
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  133. [09:05:32] <jibot> epeus is Kevin Marks and kevinmarks and the new bodysnatcher
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  143. [12:04:39] <jibot> epeus is Kevin Marks and kevinmarks and the new bodysnatcher
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  148. [12:41:22] <PibbRelay> <samsm> "I lost control of my openid" is little different than "I lost control of my email address".
  149. [12:41:25] <PibbRelay> <samsm> (re: earlier discussion)
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  172. [17:43:26] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius
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  185. [19:12:40] * johnjay_ (n=r2d2@216.239.133.67) has joined #openid
  186. [19:14:38] <johnjay_> I think we need to be clearer about the OpenID input field naming, major RP's (IE Blogger) are not naming it to spec
  187. [19:15:20] <johnjay_> Frankly, I think it's buried deep inside the spec and not made obvious at any other stage
  188. [19:15:53] * johnjay_ is now known as johnjay
  189. [19:20:26] * wkornewald (n=wkornewa@gtng-4db596af.pool.einsundeins.de) has joined #openid
  190. [19:21:06] <wkornewald> hi, is having one single ID the only advantage of OpenID?
  191. [19:21:16] <wkornewald> what about being able to link IDs?
  192. [19:21:49] <niekie> wkornewald: simple registrations is also an advantage.. and there are several more.
  193. [19:22:25] <wkornewald> what do you mean with simple registration? on some sites I don't need to supply an email, so indeed there it's simpler
  194. [19:22:43] <niekie> wkornewald: yup, your OpenID provider can just provide your e-mail address.
  195. [19:23:00] <wkornewald> but as soon as I need to supply personal information I don't think people will trust OpenID
  196. [19:23:01] <niekie> Also, the way you authenticate isn't different anymore from site to site.
  197. [19:23:26] <niekie> wkornewald: you can deny specific information being sent.
  198. [19:23:49] <niekie> If the site wants to accept your login is a different story then though.
  199. [19:24:00] <niekie> Some might deny it if you don't provide an e-mail.
  200. [19:24:06] <wkornewald> my point is that I think it's best-suited for sites that don't ask for a lot of personal information
  201. [19:24:42] <wkornewald> I'm also wondering whether it's a real advantage that my profile can be easily linked between sites
  202. [19:25:09] <niekie> wkornewald: if you're not careful, it already can :)
  203. [19:25:22] <wkornewald> indeed, but I don't have to make it too easy, either ;)
  204. [19:25:30] <wkornewald> ok, so:
  205. [19:25:41] <wkornewald> * one single username
  206. [19:26:01] <wkornewald> * slightly simplified registration
  207. [19:26:08] <wkornewald> * great for sites that don't verify email address
  208. [19:26:29] <wkornewald> is that everything?
  209. [19:26:56] <niekie> wkornewald: no, as far as I understand not.
  210. [19:27:06] <niekie> But note that I also am not an OpenID expert :-)
  211. [19:27:14] * niekie is just a lowly user/implementer.
  212. [19:27:28] <wkornewald> what else is there, then?
  213. [19:28:47] <donomo> the signin process described on openid.yahoo.com is curious
  214. [19:29:00] <donomo> at the openid prompt, they say to enter yahoo.com only
  215. [19:29:02] <niekie> Well, it's easier to login to sites which you've already marked as trusted (as you can just enter your OpenID and you should be logged in), and you're able to use any form of security your Identity Provider offers (for example, OTP login, or SSL certificates)
  216. [19:29:13] <wkornewald> * profile can be shared between sites (e.g., OpenID could provide your photo and other information to authorized sites)
  217. [19:29:31] <niekie> Also, it's easier for implementers, as they will only have to store a username, not a password.
  218. [19:29:58] <niekie> And if someone hacks those databases, they'll only have a OpenID identity, not a password or anything.
  219. [19:30:06] <wkornewald> I'm primarily interested in the user-side of advantages
  220. [19:30:20] <wkornewald> but if they hack your OpenID they have access to everything
  221. [19:30:26] <niekie> wkornewald: ah, yes.
  222. [19:30:34] <wkornewald> what's the main use-case of OpenID? blog comments?
  223. [19:30:38] <niekie> wkornewald: that's why it's best to use a provider which does not use password login.
  224. [19:30:48] <niekie> wkornewald: it's used a lot for blogs, yes.
  225. [19:31:00] <niekie> But there's more adoption all over. :)
  226. [19:31:01] <wkornewald> what else?
  227. [19:31:41] <niekie> wkornewald: well, some social networking sites, file storage sites, personal information management sites and amusement sites have started accepting OpenID logins.
  228. [19:31:55] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> blog comments is - I think - the easiest to implement, and the most obvious. But it's usefull for all kinds of user accounts (other than, say, banks)
  229. [19:32:37] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> For instance, I'm writing this from a chat application that uses OpenID :)
  230. [19:32:50] <wkornewald> why does it use OpenID?
  231. [19:32:56] <wkornewald> don't you need a username, anyway?
  232. [19:32:59] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> Why not?
  233. [19:33:07] <niekie> wkornewald: that's a "display name".
  234. [19:33:15] <niekie> They use their OpenID to log on though.
  235. [19:33:18] <wkornewald> well, in this case it really doesn't matter, does it? :)
  236. [19:33:38] <niekie> wkornewald: the authentication is handles by OpenID though. ;)
  237. [19:33:43] <niekie> handled*
  238. [19:33:45] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> Nicknames are provided over Simple Registration, so it's automatic
  239. [19:33:46] <wkornewald> oh, great :)
  240. [19:34:10] <niekie> Yup, your nickname would usually become your display name on Pibb.
  241. [19:34:39] <wkornewald> ok, but I'd rather not type my OpenID, but my nickname directly
  242. [19:34:52] <wkornewald> saves a few key strokes
  243. [19:35:04] <wkornewald> and the login procedure
  244. [19:35:15] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> But then you have to type a password instead! :)
  245. [19:35:37] <wkornewald> hmm, usually I don't need one for a quick IRC chat :)
  246. [19:35:50] <niekie> wkornewald: usually, your OpenID can be automatically filled in or selected in a drop down box, thanks to how forms are used in most OpenID implementations.
  247. [19:36:14] <wkornewald> my username, too
  248. [19:36:36] <wkornewald> I'm just wondering what real advantage OpenID gives to non-expert users
  249. [19:37:13] <niekie> Basically easier and faster registration, and an easier and faster login procedure.
  250. [19:37:27] <niekie> Plus no need to having to worry about using a different password for every site.
  251. [19:37:29] <wkornewald> well, unless they don't yet have an OpenID or don't know that they have one
  252. [19:37:37] <niekie> wkornewald: heh.
  253. [19:37:38] <niekie> True.
  254. [19:37:52] * cygnus (n=cygnus@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  255. [19:37:52] <jibot> cygnus is WorkerBee(name="Jonathan Daugherty", company="JanRain, Inc.")
  256. [19:38:28] <wkornewald> so, could I say that OpenID is mostly for expert users and geeks?
  257. [19:38:38] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> At the very least, OpenID signin is no worse or more difficult
  258. [19:38:39] <cygnus> No
  259. [19:38:51] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> I don't think that's accurate, wkornewald
  260. [19:39:01] <cygnus> wkornewald: Obviously, an OpenID is not useful if you don't .. use it.
  261. [19:39:11] <cygnus> So I think that's a straw man.
  262. [19:39:12] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> Btw, if I would have had an AIM account, I wouldn't even have to type my full Openid url (on pibb) - only my screename, and the correct will be automatically fixed.
  263. [19:39:26] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> at the best, it's a whole lot better
  264. [19:40:04] <wkornewald> well, how are non-experts supposed to use OpenID?
  265. [19:40:07] <cygnus> wkornewald: the "real advantage", as you put it, is single-sign-on, with ease of registration as a side effect for those RPs that implement it.
  266. [19:40:19] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> the nicest part for me is that I don't have to come up with yet another password just so I can comment on a blog
  267. [19:40:29] <wkornewald> or "where" (instead of "how")
  268. [19:40:42] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> three quick steps:
  269. [19:40:47] <wkornewald> do you invent a new password for every site?
  270. [19:41:03] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> go to www.myopenid.com and get an openid
  271. [19:41:05] <wkornewald> I have an insecure password and a critical one for the important stuff
  272. [19:41:22] <cygnus> wkornewald: it would be even better to have *no* passwords, at all
  273. [19:41:28] <cygnus> wkornewald: which is supported by some OpenID providers.
  274. [19:41:41] <cygnus> wkornewald: and it would be even *better* to use phishing-resistant auth.
  275. [19:41:46] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> 2. go to pibb.com and click the sign in link
  276. [19:41:48] <cygnus> which is supported by some OpenID providers.
  277. [19:41:55] <wkornewald> let me put it this way: why and when should users choose OpenID instead of InfoCards?
  278. [19:42:15] <wkornewald> this is about non-expert users, in particular
  279. [19:42:18] <cygnus> wkornewald: they're complementary technologies, not exclusive.
  280. [19:42:26] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> 3. chat
  281. [19:42:37] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> You can use infocards to login to your openid provider.
  282. [19:42:43] <wkornewald> yes, I know
  283. [19:42:46] <wkornewald> I already do
  284. [19:42:59] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> If your openid provider is myopenid, that is.
  285. [19:43:00] <wkornewald> but I seriously have never needed an OpenID, yet
  286. [19:43:32] <cygnus> wkornewald: well, sure, that's a non-argument. It needs to be deployed more widely and *to the exclusion of typical username/password auth*
  287. [19:43:37] <wkornewald> e.g., when I buy something online I'd rather use an InfoCard that contains my privat information
  288. [19:43:49] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> Well, if you don't use sites that allows you to login through openid, you'd obviously don't need it...
  289. [19:44:18] <cygnus> wkornewald: at this stage it is not useful to look at the deployment landscape and ask, "Why use it if it isn't available everywhere?"
  290. [19:44:23] <wkornewald> indeed
  291. [19:44:32] * danbri (n=danbri@unaffiliated/danbri) Quit (Connection timed out)
  292. [19:44:42] <wkornewald> I should rather ask "where would I use OpenID?"
  293. [19:44:53] <cygnus> And I'd say, "Wherever you can."
  294. [19:45:08] <wkornewald> the "can" is somewhat imprecise ;)
  295. [19:45:21] <wkornewald> where does it make sense?
  296. [19:45:34] <wkornewald> community sites
  297. [19:45:39] <wkornewald> forums?
  298. [19:45:43] <wkornewald> blog comments
  299. [19:46:00] <cygnus> I think it's perfectly valid to say that it *should* be used wherever it's supported.
  300. [19:46:29] <wkornewald> simple website personalization services (e.g., on your cinema website you can star great movies)
  301. [19:46:31] <cygnus> And it *should* be supported wherever the security requirements of its use are satisfactory, and of course, that's yet to be determined for things like commerce.
  302. [19:47:06] <wkornewald> but many sites already ask for my email address which is an ID, too
  303. [19:47:13] <cygnus> But to confine OpenID to "social" sites or discussions, chat, and forums is, in my opinion, tragically cheapening to OpenID
  304. [19:47:15] <wkornewald> and it's one that everyone knows
  305. [19:47:29] <cygnus> wkornewald: it's true.
  306. [19:47:36] <cygnus> wkornewald: and they ask for a password, which is unnecessary.
  307. [19:47:41] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> It's more useful to think about where it wouldn't make sense.
  308. [19:48:06] <wkornewald> ok, but I already have passwords which I can just reuse
  309. [19:48:36] <cygnus> Yes, which is widely understood to be a very poor security practice, and there's no point in encouraging it, right?
  310. [19:48:38] <wkornewald> I mean, it takes effort to register an OpenID and you have to "trust" the site
  311. [19:48:46] <wkornewald> absolutely
  312. [19:48:56] <cygnus> Sure, but you register the OpenID once, and for most providers, you trust once.
  313. [19:49:50] <wkornewald> I see InfoCards as a better solution (except for them being not "mobile") for this because the registration happens in-place
  314. [19:49:55] <wkornewald> and they're better integrated
  315. [19:50:15] <wkornewald> I can also trust InfoCards much more
  316. [19:50:37] <wkornewald> I'd use them when shopping, for example
  317. [19:51:16] <wkornewald> I do see the point that passwords are bad
  318. [19:51:42] <wkornewald> but I'm wondering whether most people will find it worth the effort of getting and using an OpenID
  319. [19:52:01] <wkornewald> it definitely has its place among experts, but what about non-experts?
  320. [19:52:11] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> When I wanted an account at a bookmarking site, I looked at del.icio.us. To register, I had to enter username, password, password again, email, captcha, press ok, done. I then looked at ma.gnolia.com instead. Enter one url, press ok, press trust, done. I just can't be bothered with filling out forms anymore.
  321. [19:52:12] <cygnus> I'm guessing that yes, they will, especially since most people are getting OpenIDs without *doing* anything
  322. [19:52:30] <wkornewald> but most people also don't know that they even have an OpenID
  323. [19:53:47] <wkornewald> it's also more difficult to remember wkornewald.myopenid.com because it rarely happens that you need an OpenID
  324. [19:53:58] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> That's an interface problem, not a technical one.
  325. [19:54:00] <cygnus> wkornewald: yes, but are talking about technical details or user education? or both? Of course, providers need to educate their users. Of course, an OpenID does no good if it doesn't get used.
  326. [19:54:02] <wkornewald> well, maybe not for us Internet citizens
  327. [19:54:12] <cygnus> wkornewald: that's a non-argument
  328. [19:54:35] <wkornewald> actually, I think it is
  329. [19:54:51] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> I've seen login forms that has one username box, and one provider box. type wkornewald, choose myopenid, done.
  330. [19:55:00] <wkornewald> when I recently tried to login to a site that supports OpenID I couldn't remember my URI, anymore :)
  331. [19:55:11] <cygnus> No, claiming that it's not as useful because the support is lacking is a non-starter when people are trying to both improve the user experience *and* increase adoption.
  332. [19:55:31] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> wkornewald: you seem to be aggressively dismissive of OpenID, and you're also using a lot of circular reasoning and logical fallacy in your arguments. It makes it hard for people to answer your questions, and makes me think that you might not be here to get answers at all.
  333. [19:56:20] <wkornewald> why is my reasoning circular?
  334. [19:56:45] * cygnus (n=cygnus@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has left #openid
  335. [19:57:05] <wkornewald> I'm just wondering whether people will actually adopt OpenID
  336. [19:57:32] <wkornewald> I didn't get any arguments that support it
  337. [19:57:49] * stub (n=stub@ppp-58-8-7-233.revip2.asianet.co.th) has joined #openid
  338. [19:57:54] <wkornewald> "build it and they'll come" is not an argument
  339. [19:58:05] * stub (n=stub@canonical/launchpad/stub) Quit (Client Quit)
  340. [19:58:13] <wkornewald> many great technologies failed
  341. [19:58:19] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> you're making the argument that people won't use openid because there's not much you can do with an openid because ... well, people don't use openid.
  342. [19:58:41] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> and half a dozen people have tried to give you reasons
  343. [19:58:48] <wkornewald> let's leave aside that OpenID isn't yet supported everywhere
  344. [19:59:00] <wkornewald> that's not my argument (it would be stupid to base arguments on that)
  345. [19:59:58] <wkornewald> I just want to get a few use-cases. cygnus said that it should be used everywhere possible, but OpenID has privacy and security concerns because it has one single point of failure
  346. [20:00:14] <wkornewald> I want serious and sensible use-cases
  347. [20:00:54] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> okay...lets start with blog comments
  348. [20:01:01] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> (emphasis on start)
  349. [20:01:16] <wkornewald> I'll just repeat my list for a start:
  350. [20:01:17] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> it's already a common case that people use the same handle on multiple blogs
  351. [20:01:19] <wkornewald> * blog comments
  352. [20:01:21] <wkornewald> * community sites
  353. [20:01:23] <wkornewald> * maybe forums
  354. [20:02:04] <wkornewald> * especially: personalization features for sites that don't need to verify your email
  355. [20:02:05] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> and if that's all of the penetration openid gets, it's still a win over the current experience
  356. [20:02:35] <wkornewald> absolutely
  357. [20:03:17] <wkornewald> it's just that if I count how many people I know use those services then OpenID is not going very far
  358. [20:03:30] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> You use the same username (I assume) and password on all sites. In what way is that not a single point of failure?
  359. [20:04:08] <wkornewald> it is, of course
  360. [20:04:26] * hillsy (i=shaunh@npfit2.dh.bytemark.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  361. [20:04:32] <wkornewald> but I trust my (secure) password much more than an OpenID
  362. [20:04:50] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> where else do you (or "people you know") sign in that isn't in one of your groups?
  363. [20:05:02] <wkornewald> email
  364. [20:05:03] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> Well, only use your openid for the sites where you have a crappy password.
  365. [20:05:06] <wkornewald> amazon
  366. [20:05:20] <wkornewald> ozamosi, I will
  367. [20:05:41] <wkornewald> hmm...there is a social networking site that all my friends use
  368. [20:05:48] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> email is an interesting case, because email is frequently used as a backup authentication ('recover your password')
  369. [20:06:28] <PibbRelay> <sean> what are peoples opinions on myvidoop.com? it has a unique password managing service built into it that i recently discovered
  370. [20:06:38] <wkornewald> only very few of my friends login to a forum
  371. [20:06:57] <wkornewald> I think they've never commented on a blog
  372. [20:07:00] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> And/or use a provider you trust more (Verisign, perhaps?)
  373. [20:07:18] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> it will certainly take a while for amazon and others to start using openid -- its a new technology, and there's real money on the line -- but I don't see any fundamental reason why they can't (or shouldnt')
  374. [20:07:34] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> and social networking is a perfect place to use openid
  375. [20:07:53] <wkornewald> I think amazon should rather use infocard
  376. [20:08:06] <wkornewald> well, youtube is also used by some
  377. [20:08:14] <wkornewald> (I mean, the login; many use it without a login)
  378. [20:08:49] <wkornewald> yes, so I only see youtube and social networking. that's two sites.
  379. [20:09:32] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> that openid would work for? or not work?
  380. [20:09:43] <wkornewald> woudl work for
  381. [20:09:58] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> k
  382. [20:10:09] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> there are real advantages for amazon using openid, though
  383. [20:10:22] <wkornewald> I think the disadvantages are greater
  384. [20:10:30] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> they already do an enormous amount of cross-checking of purchases to make recommendations
  385. [20:10:31] <wkornewald> in this case, at least
  386. [20:11:06] <PibbRelay> <cygnus> the disadvantages being?
  387. [20:11:07] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> imagine if they had access to (for example) your imdb reviews
  388. [20:11:28] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> you could enable this feature or not at your discretion
  389. [20:12:21] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> the main disadvantage to openid is the single point of failure, yes? do you see others?
  390. [20:12:28] * dbounds (n=user@c-76-18-200-33.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  391. [20:12:29] <wkornewald> disadvantage for me is that my OpenID has too much access to something that has to do with money
  392. [20:12:45] <PibbRelay> <cygnus> too much?
  393. [20:13:04] <wkornewald> I don't want to enter my address and phone number, etc.
  394. [20:13:23] <PibbRelay> <cygnus> In what context?
  395. [20:13:24] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> you have that option...just like you do today.
  396. [20:13:47] <wkornewald> I think it's sufficient to have Amazon know about me
  397. [20:13:49] <wkornewald> not my OpenID
  398. [20:14:16] <wkornewald> maybe I'm just paranoid
  399. [20:14:19] <PibbRelay> <cygnus> then you'd use directed identity and give them an obscure identifier.
  400. [20:14:35] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> I don't think you lose that ability
  401. [20:14:49] <wkornewald> and I don't want others to be able to hack my OpenID (or the IdP)
  402. [20:14:49] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> Then, let's hope Amazon becomes a Openid provider! :)
  403. [20:15:10] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> You could then let other sites know of the subset of amazon's data
  404. [20:15:18] <PibbRelay> <cygnus> then you choose a secure provider and/or host your own identifier.
  405. [20:15:33] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> ...that you choose.
  406. [20:16:25] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> if you're that paranoid, don't share any data with your IdP -- myopenid.com for example (and my employer), will ask for email, but not require it.
  407. [20:16:31] <wkornewald> well, I'd be very surprised if Amazon supports OpenID
  408. [20:16:45] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> any reasonable RP will ask you for data itself if you don't support it.
  409. [20:17:18] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> as has been mentioned -- that's not a reason to support (or not) openid
  410. [20:17:50] <wkornewald> ok. thanks for your help
  411. [20:17:52] <wkornewald> bye
  412. [20:17:54] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> 'don't support it' -> 'don't supply it over openid'
  413. [20:18:09] <PibbRelay> <cygnus> hah
  414. [20:18:41] * wkornewald (n=wkornewa@gtng-4db596af.pool.einsundeins.de) Quit ("MegaIRC v3.92 http://ironfist.at.tut.by")
  415. [20:19:03] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> pibb users would also like to see '** user has left #channel'
  416. [20:19:33] <PibbRelay> <cygnus> this pibb user wouldn't... that's usually noise in a channel with more joining/parting than chat. :(
  417. [20:19:34] <PibbRelay> <ozamosi> Only sometimes...
  418. [20:19:54] <PibbRelay> <cygnus> (heck, it's noise anyway IMHO)
  419. [20:21:13] <PibbRelay> <mpg4> okay...pibb users would like to see irc users in the 'logged in users' frame
  420. [20:21:35] <PibbRelay> <cygnus> +1 :)
  421. [20:50:00] * walkah (n=walkah@drupal.org/user/1531/view) has joined #openid
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  423. [21:14:36] * PibbRelay (n=supybot@nat/janrain/x-6d073d368b303719) has joined #openid
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  427. [22:21:23] * Aleran (n=Aleran@dhcp-x221-093.mobile.uci.edu) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  428. [22:25:07] * bsdpaul (n=paul@jaguar.aps.org) Quit ()
  429. [22:55:05] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-06c277e103894314) has joined #openid
  430. [22:55:05] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius
  431. [23:06:16] * MrTopf (n=cs@62.47.104.114) Quit ()
  432. [23:16:22] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-06c277e103894314) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  433. [23:50:43] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@nat/google/x-8d9f3dd7237a448a) has joined #openid
  434. [23:50:43] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius
  435. [23:54:51] * tjohns (n=tjohns@cpe-76-170-58-80.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #openid

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