IRC Log for #openid on 2008-02-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:04:22] * Mitsurugi (n=Nightmar@4.Red-81-39-197.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #openID
  2. [00:10:47] * Cody`macbook (n=Cody@74-129-166-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined #openid
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  13. [01:20:34] <ffm> What is there to stop ID reuse?
  14. [01:25:34] * michelp_ (n=michelp@69-30-72-119.dq1sf.easystreet.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  15. [01:30:32] <tjohns> What do you mean by reuse?
  16. [01:35:09] <ffm> tjohns: lets say alice trusts BobWorks to be her openID provider.
  17. [01:35:30] <ffm> tjohns: One day, BobWorks needs more cash, so they let Cathy pay to masquarade as Alice.
  18. [01:35:37] <ffm> tjohns: anything to stop that>
  19. [01:36:09] <tjohns> No, the provider is implicitly trusted.
  20. [01:36:38] <tjohns> However, Alice could use alice.com as her OpenID URL, then use delegation to have BobWorks serve as her provider
  21. [01:36:44] <ffm> tjohns: how about if BobWorks goes out of buisness,
  22. [01:37:03] <ffm> tjohns: and someone else buys bobworks.com and pretends to be alice?
  23. [01:37:20] <ffm> tjohns: anything in the form of a secret token or something that stops that?
  24. [01:37:21] <tjohns> If she finds out that BobWorks allowed her account to become compromised, she could just change the delegation settings on alice.com
  25. [01:37:33] <tjohns> Nope, same situation. The best defense is to use delegation.
  26. [01:37:39] <ffm> tjohns: kk
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  30. [02:51:17] <donomo> openid scheduled downtime.
  31. [02:51:55] <donomo> that gets me thinking about redundancy
  32. [02:52:17] <donomo> either mine or openid's
  33. [02:52:25] <donomo> im pretty hosed while its down.
  34. [02:56:58] <ffm> donomo: it's only 6 hrs
  35. [02:57:04] <ffm> donomo: and that's why we delegate
  36. [03:14:36] * SignpostMarv (n=Signpost@82-71-31-169.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #openid
  37. [03:29:28] * ffm (n=ffm@unaffiliated/ffm) Quit ("Leaving.")
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  43. [04:06:52] <donomo> if openid were the way into my email, 6 hours would seem like a long time.
  44. [04:07:26] <donomo> delegation is a big step up, tech-wise, and not available to the average myopenid user
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  49. [04:27:24] * priidu (n=aa@220.201.181.147) Quit (No route to host)
  50. [04:38:43] <tjohns> donomo: There are methods that can be used to eliminate downtime, just like for any other site. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a market for high availability OpenID hosting right now.
  51. [04:39:33] <donomo> tjohns: yup.
  52. [04:39:52] <donomo> delegation is a powerful option for openid users
  53. [04:43:24] <flaccid__> i just can't wait to finish this prototype
  54. [05:25:03] <donomo> flaccid__: what is it?
  55. [05:28:15] * priidu__ (n=aa@220.192.242.177) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  56. [05:29:14] <flaccid__> openid server in cakephp
  57. [05:31:17] * priidu__ (n=aa@220.192.241.198) has joined #openid
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  60. [07:21:50] * polyonymous (n=hacker@pD953B069.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
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  63. [07:57:45] <bcardarella> I seem to be getting an odd error.... for some reason my server is throwing out a "Status: 500 Internal Server Error" when the Consumer first speaks to the server....
  64. [08:05:09] * bcardarella (n=brian@c-65-96-64-87.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit ("Leaving.")
  65. [08:16:09] * shigeta (n=shigeta@70.36.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  66. [08:42:17] <keturn> who scheduled six hours?
  67. [08:43:26] * tjohns (n=tjohns@cpe-76-170-58-80.socal.res.rr.com) Quit ()
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  98. [14:16:11] * anchovyman (n=shane@124-171-154-38.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #openid
  99. [14:17:09] <anchovyman> I have an OpenID question - does anyone know what the error: Verification of <myopenid> failed: No matching endpoint found after discovering <myopenid>
  100. [14:17:46] <flaccid_> i guess that means that yadis discovery did not return a server entity
  101. [14:18:31] <anchovyman> really? I am seeing this on the service provider after the checkid_setup
  102. [14:18:45] <flaccid_> im new, i could be wrong anchovyman
  103. [14:19:05] <flaccid_> but the word 'matching' is probably the problem
  104. [14:19:23] <flaccid_> what is it matching. sorry my knowledge is not great yet on openid
  105. [14:19:45] <flaccid_> i would love to be corrected in this channel :)
  106. [14:20:01] <anchovyman> well that's part of my question really - I don't know what it's trying to do.
  107. [14:20:14] <anchovyman> I have control over the OP in this case, not the service provider.
  108. [14:22:05] <anchovyman> and it doesn't happen if I turn my openid provider into a 1.1-only server. It seems to be an artifact of OpenID 2.0 support that I haven't figured out yet.
  109. [14:22:51] <flaccid_> hmm
  110. [14:22:58] <flaccid_> out of my knowledge
  111. [14:23:05] <flaccid_> but in this case what is the service provider?
  112. [14:23:41] <anchovyman> I have two where its happening - I guess they use the same code. Both are run by JanRain, and I have a contact there, so I may just email them.
  113. [14:23:57] <anchovyman> https://pibb.com/ and http://jyte.com/
  114. [14:24:32] <flaccid_> im a bit confused
  115. [14:24:52] <flaccid_> do you mean relying partying or consumer in this case?
  116. [14:25:06] <flaccid_> just keep in mind i've had a few scotches
  117. [14:25:43] <anchovyman> in my terminology they mean the same thing. I have control of an OpenID provider, and at those aforementioned relying parties (aka consumers) I see the error I mentioned.
  118. [14:26:07] <flaccid_> yeah consumer is a deprecated term now
  119. [14:26:41] <flaccid_> so this is happening with these two janrain relying parties ?
  120. [14:26:55] <anchovyman> yes
  121. [14:27:13] <flaccid_> and is fine with other relying parties?
  122. [14:27:42] <anchovyman> with several others I've tried - though there's no guarantee that those others were OpenID 2.0 enabled RP's
  123. [14:27:57] <flaccid_> RP ?
  124. [14:27:59] <flaccid_> oh yeah
  125. [14:28:00] <flaccid_> lol
  126. [14:28:03] <flaccid_> ..scotch
  127. [14:28:15] <flaccid_> yeah there is not many 2.0 providers out there
  128. [14:28:19] <flaccid_> im building mine atm
  129. [14:28:54] * a9913 (n=a9913@unaffiliated/a9913) has joined #openid
  130. [14:29:12] <flaccid_> if you can't find anything differing from the protocol then i guess is janrain contact
  131. [14:29:16] * priidu_ (n=aa@220.205.83.31) Quit (Connection timed out)
  132. [14:29:19] <flaccid_> is=its
  133. [14:29:36] * mario_ (n=chatzill@89.241.154.67) has joined #openid
  134. [14:29:37] * mario_ is now known as mario
  135. [14:29:51] <anchovyman> they must be doing some kinda check after the checkid_setup response, but I don't know what it is
  136. [14:30:16] <flaccid_> hmm interesting
  137. [14:30:24] <flaccid_> i'd like to hear about that if thats the case
  138. [14:30:41] <flaccid_> couldn't be anything to do with their anti-phishing ?
  139. [14:30:51] <anchovyman> google "No matching endpoint found after discovering" and you'll see a couple of mentions of it, but I can't correlate to my own scenario yet
  140. [14:31:17] <flaccid_> what exactly is outputting that string but
  141. [14:31:24] * Cody`macbook (n=Cody@74-129-166-74.dhcp.insightbb.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  142. [14:31:29] <flaccid_> is that string written by the libraries or someone else
  143. [14:32:03] <anchovyman> who knows - I just see it on the RP website, and from trace on my OP (and looking at what my browser is doing) I can tell that I've sent the checkid_setup response successfully.
  144. [14:32:18] <flaccid_> anchovyman: did you see http://trac.openidenabled.com/trac/ticket/95
  145. [14:32:28] <anchovyman> yes
  146. [14:32:30] <flaccid_> your nick is familiar anchovyman lol
  147. [14:32:43] <anchovyman> really - where from :) ?
  148. [14:33:00] <flaccid_> imo its likely a bug or some problem. i've had a few in my dev so far that i need to report back, one is still puzzling me
  149. [14:33:05] <flaccid_> i guess on freenode somewhere
  150. [14:33:12] <anchovyman> higgins perhaps?
  151. [14:33:22] <flaccid_> no idea
  152. [14:33:27] <flaccid_> hehe
  153. [14:33:37] <flaccid_> good ol freenode of familar nicks who knows when you talked to them lol
  154. [14:48:01] * ricky (n=ricky@fedora/ricky) Quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  155. [14:48:01] * keturn (n=kevint@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/keturn) Quit (brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  156. [14:48:53] * ricky (n=ricky@fedora/ricky) has joined #openid
  157. [14:48:53] * keturn (n=kevint@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/keturn) has joined #openid
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  159. [15:12:08] <anchovyman> i figured it out
  160. [15:12:25] <flaccid_> serious?
  161. [15:12:29] <flaccid_> do tell
  162. [15:12:43] <anchovyman> yeah - it has to do with section 11.2 of the openid 2.0 spec
  163. [15:12:56] * flaccid_ gets out his folder
  164. [15:13:23] * shigeta (n=shigeta@70.36.100.220.dy.bbexcite.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  165. [15:13:43] <flaccid_> "Verifying Discovered Information" ?
  166. [15:13:47] <anchovyman> what i did wrong was that i was returning my op_endpoint with https as the protocol whereas the identity page had http (mismatched protocols)
  167. [15:13:57] <anchovyman> now it works fine
  168. [15:14:38] <flaccid_> ah
  169. [15:14:47] <flaccid_> easy
  170. [15:14:55] <flaccid_> i was reading that and going omg wtf
  171. [15:14:56] <flaccid_> lol
  172. [15:15:47] <anchovyman> 1:15am here - gotta turn in
  173. [15:15:52] <flaccid_> hey anchovyman, what is your take on https with openid. should be be mandated to do https for auth
  174. [15:16:02] <anchovyman> yeah i think so
  175. [15:16:04] <flaccid_> its 2:15am here lol
  176. [15:16:15] <anchovyman> i am going to allow config to restrict to https
  177. [15:16:16] <flaccid_> true
  178. [15:16:21] <anchovyman> with ssl validation
  179. [15:16:26] <flaccid_> i think i'lll do that too on release
  180. [15:16:32] <flaccid_> ssl validation?
  181. [15:16:47] <anchovyman> however problem is my test endpoint doesn't have a "real" cert, so rp's don't trust it hence I'm kinda https enabled
  182. [15:17:13] <anchovyman> my RP is going to have the ability to ensure that the OP's SSL endpoint is in it's trusted signers list (like a browser does)
  183. [15:17:27] <anchovyman> that's in addition to requiring the OP to have an SSL endpoint
  184. [15:17:27] <flaccid_> hmmm
  185. [15:17:38] <flaccid_> wtf
  186. [15:17:58] <anchovyman> so the RP will not connect to an OP unless it trusts the SSL certificate of that OP
  187. [15:17:58] <flaccid_> imo thats making things complicated
  188. [15:18:11] <flaccid_> but what do you mean by 'trust'
  189. [15:18:36] <anchovyman> the SSL cert of the OP must be signed by a certificate in our keystore
  190. [15:18:46] <flaccid_> what is 'our keystore'
  191. [15:18:50] <anchovyman> configuration
  192. [15:18:55] <flaccid_> um
  193. [15:19:08] <flaccid_> if the CA can be verified, what else i there to verify?
  194. [15:19:18] <anchovyman> you're saying the same thing
  195. [15:19:28] <anchovyman> how do you verify a CA?
  196. [15:19:36] <flaccid_> by root certs
  197. [15:19:41] <flaccid_> or authorities
  198. [15:19:44] <anchovyman> that's exactly what I'm saying
  199. [15:19:49] <flaccid_> ok np
  200. [15:20:07] <flaccid_> so all you are saying is that if the TLS cert is valid then ok coo
  201. [15:20:10] <flaccid_> cool
  202. [15:20:34] <anchovyman> so our RP will have a certificate store with CA's in it. It will have configuration to restrict connection to OP's that support SSL, and then only those endpoints which are issued by a trusted CA will be usable.
  203. [15:20:39] <flaccid_> the 'in our keystore' is the part that made me flip out
  204. [15:21:01] * flaccid_ thinks
  205. [15:21:15] <anchovyman> that's just like how a browser does warnings about SSL sites that don't have certs signed by trusted CA's
  206. [15:21:27] <flaccid_> yes
  207. [15:21:36] <anchovyman> anyway, I am *really* going to turn in now
  208. [15:21:48] * anchovyman (n=shane@124-171-154-38.dyn.iinet.net.au) has left #openid
  209. [15:22:15] <flaccid_> but my question to you is does the 2.0 spec advise mandatory TLS/SSL, no it doesn't. if it did then the crypto implementation would be irrelevant..
  210. [15:22:26] <flaccid_> ah well
  211. [15:22:59] * mario (n=chatzill@89.241.154.67) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  212. [15:24:57] <flaccid_> question is. what responsibility does OpenID have ont the actual encryption of data. does it need to past its auth objectives?
  213. [15:26:05] <flaccid_> i mean my point is that openid was achievable without an encrypto layer.
  214. [15:26:16] <flaccid_> correct me if im wrong
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  221. [16:12:52] <Rpg2> Hi
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  235. [17:59:54] <keturn> flaccid: You can do OpenID without _en_crypting anything. but the messages are cryptographically signed.
  236. [18:00:38] <keturn> so the content is not concealed, but you can detect tampering.
  237. [18:00:39] * MrTopf (n=cs@pD9EBD09F.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
  238. [18:15:59] * flaccid_ (n=flaccid@123-243-80-114.tpgi.com.au) has joined #openid
  239. [18:24:07] * hillsy (i=shaunh@npfit2.dh.bytemark.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  240. [18:31:25] * flaccid (n=flaccid@123-243-80-114.tpgi.com.au) Quit (Connection timed out)
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  242. [18:53:28] * pvandewyngaerde (n=pvandewy@150.93-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  243. [19:00:16] * idnar_ is now known as idnar
  244. [19:44:25] * Ramha (n=Ramha@p50845692.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #openid
  245. [19:49:10] * hendry (n=hendry@nox.vm.bytemark.co.uk) has joined #openid
  246. [19:49:10] <jibot> hendry is http://www.flickr.com/photos/hendry/1858868124/ and http://hendry.iki.fi/about/
  247. [19:49:41] <hendry> any good examples of openid 2.0 consumers?
  248. [19:52:56] * a9913_ (n=a9913@unaffiliated/a9913) has joined #openid
  249. [19:58:02] <keturn> https://pibb.com/ and http://jyte.com/ are both 2.0 consumers. or, if you're looking for code, any of the 2.x libraries on http://openidenabled.com/ support OpenID 2.0 and examples are included in the source distribution.
  250. [20:10:11] * a9913 (n=a9913@unaffiliated/a9913) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  251. [20:28:37] <hendry> keturn: wondering if there was a particularly good listing of 2.0 compliant ones
  252. [20:44:10] <keturn> Yahoo has this list, which only has 2.0 in it because that's all Yahoo supports. http://gallery.yahoo.com/openid
  253. [20:45:11] <hendry> i am testing the version 2.0 server PHP examples
  254. [20:45:50] <hendry> and it can't seem to handle a "2.0 identity" like http://id/server/server.php
  255. [20:46:43] <hendry> the trust page works but then the next page presents the " * You must be logged in as http://id/server/server.php to approve this request.
  256. [20:46:52] <hendry> which is a fail
  257. [21:04:00] * priidu_ (n=aa@220.195.52.211) has joined #openid
  258. [21:12:19] <hendry> keturn: http://flickr.com/photos/hendry/2240297218/
  259. [21:13:38] <keturn> ok, that's probably a bug in the php example
  260. [21:19:00] <hendry> yeah
  261. [21:19:08] <hendry> the PHP example could be a lot simpler i think
  262. [21:19:23] <hendry> i don't see the point of all that sprintf render/ stuff
  263. [21:19:40] <hendry> just use PHP like it's a templating language itself ;)
  264. [21:20:14] <hendry> i'll try figure it out tomorrow, but if you see how to fix please let me know asap keturn
  265. [21:22:54] * tjohns (n=tjohns@cpe-76-170-58-80.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #openid
  266. [21:29:06] * mario_ (n=chatzill@89.241.154.67) has joined #openid
  267. [21:29:08] * mario_ is now known as mario
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  269. [21:45:13] * mario (n=chatzill@89.241.154.67) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 3.0b2/2007121014]")
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  273. [22:08:48] * a9913_ (n=a9913@unaffiliated/a9913) Quit ("Leaving")
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  275. [22:29:30] * Mitsurugi (n=Nightmar@4.Red-81-39-197.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  276. [22:30:02] * Mitsurugi (n=Nightmar@162.Red-83-61-239.staticIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #openID
  277. [22:39:34] * a9913 (n=a9913@unaffiliated/a9913) has joined #openid
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  279. [23:46:37] * anchovyman (n=shane@nat/ibm/x-c843c211ec5fcbf4) has joined #openid

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