IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-08-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  8. [00:26:05] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=7912 * Tantek * (+274) added clarification for encapsulated microformat in item vs. item info subproperties
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  10. [00:28:34] <tantek> darn briansuda left
  11. [00:28:37] <tantek> DanC, still around?
  12. [00:28:45] <tantek> drew, awake?
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  14. [00:28:56] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  15. [00:29:06] <tantek> i want to discuss potential implied "fn" in hCard
  16. [00:29:29] <tantek> drew is going to love this i'm sure
  17. [00:29:36] <tantek> first, the motivating example:
  18. [00:34:26] * qid eagerly anticipates implied "vcard" in hCard
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  20. [00:35:29] <tantek> no gotta have the root class name
  21. [00:35:33] <tantek> can't get away from that
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  24. [00:41:16] <tantek> basically the problem case is one of putting items (e.g. hCards) in table rows
  25. [00:41:26] <tantek> so you have <tr class="vcard"> for each hCard
  26. [00:41:29] <tantek> but then what
  27. [00:41:40] <tantek> say you are putting the given and family-names in separate columns
  28. [00:41:52] <tantek> there is no place to put class="fn n" for example
  29. [00:42:02] <tantek> thus two straw proposal optimizations
  30. [00:42:35] <tantek> 1. if there is no "fn", but there is an "n" property, then imply the "fn" from the concatenation of all the n subproperties that are present in the source order that they are present.
  31. [00:42:56] <tantek> 2. if there is no "fn" NOR "n" property, then imply an "n" from the collection of n subproperties that exist
  32. [00:43:09] <tantek> which provides you sufficient structure then to follow optimization 1 to get the "fn"
  33. [00:51:22] <mfbot> [[hreview-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=7913 * Tantek * (+458) added a few more optimizations for content authoring
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  35. [00:53:57] <tantek> just as i have to go
  36. [00:54:03] <tantek> eric, see irc archives
  37. [00:58:33] <emeyer> Whereabouts?
  38. [00:58:51] * tantek looks at /topic
  39. [00:58:57] <tantek> Channel is logged: http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot
  40. [00:59:06] <emeyer> Sweet. Thanks.
  41. [00:59:23] <tantek> http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2006-08-01#T004116
  42. [00:59:26] <tantek> ok, bbiab
  43. [01:00:29] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit ("Leaving")
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  45. [01:31:14] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-ja&diff=0&oldid=7914 * IwaiMasaharu * (+134) sync: english: 15:03, 31 Jul 2006
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  50. [01:54:40] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  72. [04:35:33] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  87. [07:04:15] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  89. [07:22:37] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  90. [07:23:00] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  92. [07:28:07] <jibot> Jedi_ is Jedi <http://Jedi.org/> ( 08:00) and working at Creative Commons Taiwan <http://creativecommons.org.tw/>
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  94. [08:00:57] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  95. [08:00:58] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  96. [08:13:42] <trovster> Anyone have a good hReview parser which has support for include
  97. [08:29:50] * cori[s]|xchat is away: sleeeeeep....
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  101. [09:39:24] <Whiskey_M> 'lo
  102. [09:43:25] * dc__ (n=dctanner@bb-87-81-165-34.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  103. [09:45:23] <tayzlor> hi
  104. [09:46:14] <trovster> Did you get the include parsing in anything tayzlor?
  105. [09:52:53] <tayzlor> hey trovster ive only been working on the pages locally, so i havent had a chance to see if they will parse using an online parsing tool
  106. [09:56:28] <tayzlor> the code seems fine, but the tails extension isnt picking it up :S
  107. [09:57:15] <trovster> Mine either, but Tails is basic, and I don't think it has support for include
  108. [10:10:21] <tayzlor> hmm
  109. [10:10:38] <tayzlor> maybe it is working correctly then, and tails isnt picking it up
  110. [10:11:01] <tayzlor> but at the moment i have no way of telling,waiting to get access to yahoo web server to upload my test files
  111. [10:12:27] <trovster> Ooooh kay?! I've uploaded some test HTML, but where sa I parse it?
  112. [10:19:20] <tayzlor> i guess u can use the hcard parser at technorati to try parse if it is in hcard format
  113. [10:19:45] <tayzlor> or maybe http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/
  114. [10:29:28] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  115. [10:29:29] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  116. [10:43:51] <trovster> yeh, but I don't want to put it on technorati, its just dummy text atm
  117. [11:49:15] * cori[s]|xchat is back (gone 03:19:25)
  118. [11:51:13] * drewinthehead (n=mclellan@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
  119. [11:51:14] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, the author of hKit and the curator of tools.microformatic.com and http://claimid.com/drewmclellan
  120. [11:51:48] <trovster> Hey hey drewinthehead.
  121. [11:52:08] <drewinthehead> hey .. not stopping ... just getting my MacBook Pro set up
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  128. [12:12:45] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, the author of hKit and the curator of tools.microformatic.com and http://claimid.com/drewmclellan
  129. [12:15:02] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable153.95-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  130. [12:15:02] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  131. [12:22:53] <drewinthehead> ?forgetme
  132. [12:22:53] <jibot> I have expunged drewinthehead from my mind
  133. [12:23:39] <trovster> drewinthehead: Stayin'?
  134. [12:23:50] <drewinthehead> ?def drewinthehead is the author of hKit
  135. [12:23:50] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit
  136. [12:24:04] <drewinthehead> trovster: hopefully
  137. [12:25:12] <trovster> Know anything that'll parse included hreview?
  138. [12:25:30] <drewinthehead> included as in option-include and a.include?
  139. [12:25:37] <trovster> Yup
  140. [12:26:59] <drewinthehead> erm ... nope
  141. [12:27:14] <drewinthehead> hKit does both include types, but has no hReview profile yet
  142. [12:27:27] <drewinthehead> it's on my to-do list
  143. [12:27:31] <trovster> Aha, cool.
  144. [12:27:44] <trovster> I've got a massive page which loads of uF I wanna parse.
  145. [12:27:56] <drewinthehead> that said, does tantek's kitchen not do it?
  146. [12:28:16] <trovster> Not putting it on technorati, it's test content
  147. [12:28:27] <drewinthehead> ok
  148. [12:29:18] * Whiskey_M (n=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) Quit ()
  149. [12:29:43] <drewinthehead> feel free to have a stab at writing the hKit profile if you want :)
  150. [12:30:04] * trovster hasn't got PHP5 here :)
  151. [12:31:14] <drewinthehead> ah well. i'm hoping to get to it soon ... it's on the top of my to-do http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do#Drew_McLellan
  152. [12:31:49] <trovster> :d
  153. [12:32:03] <trovster> Wonder which'll come first, my site or your parser! :)
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  156. [12:55:26] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  157. [12:55:29] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
  158. [12:55:39] <mfbot> [[hreview-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-fr&diff=0&oldid=7915 * ChristopheDucamp * (+351) Détails des Champs -
  159. [12:58:20] <mfbot> [[hreview-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-fr&diff=0&oldid=7916 * ChristopheDucamp * (+17) Critique produit -
  160. [13:05:02] <mfbot> [[hreview-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-fr&diff=0&oldid=7917 * ChristopheDucamp * (-31) Critique produit -
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  163. [13:11:34] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  164. [13:11:35] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  165. [13:12:13] <mfbot> [[hreview-brainstorming-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-brainstorming-fr&diff=0&oldid=7918 * ChristopheDucamp * (+544) Idées hReview 0.3 -
  166. [13:12:23] <McNulty> afternoon
  167. [13:13:07] <trovster> http://paste.css-standards.org/1753/view -- only thing I can't check is whether the hreview is using the include correctly.
  168. [13:14:37] <McNulty> trovster - not sure your permalink works
  169. [13:15:34] <McNulty> and re: the include, I can't find the @id=branding element?
  170. [13:21:30] <trovster> <div id="branding" class="author reviewer vcard">
  171. [13:22:14] <McNulty> oh I see it now
  172. [13:22:30] <McNulty> looks right.
  173. [13:26:25] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  174. [13:26:26] <jibot> edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
  175. [13:29:41] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  176. [13:29:42] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
  177. [13:30:15] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  178. [13:30:15] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  181. [14:00:24] * Charl (n=charlvn@net-153-111.mweb.co.za) has joined #microformats
  182. [14:00:25] <jibot> Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
  183. [14:00:48] <trovster> McNulty: But Tails isn't including it correctly... oh wel
  184. [14:01:45] <McNulty> tails doesn't get much right
  185. [14:01:58] <trovster> Meh, it's fairly OK to me.
  186. [14:02:07] <trovster> Get's a lot of stuff off that page I posted.
  187. [14:02:46] <McNulty> It doesn't seem to like things like multiple URLs
  188. [14:02:51] <McNulty> at least the version I have
  189. [14:05:21] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  190. [14:05:21] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  191. [14:05:22] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  192. [14:05:31] <trovster> I'm scared to test all the hfeeds on that page!
  193. [14:09:21] <drewinthehead> did you get fragments to work, trovster?
  194. [14:09:34] <drewinthehead> pnhChris pointed out that the # needs to be url-encoded
  195. [14:09:57] <trovster> not tried
  196. [14:10:24] <drewinthehead> by default the # doesn't get sent to the server, it seems. logical but annoying
  197. [14:10:59] <McNulty> That probably gets *really* annoying when you're chaining three services together
  198. [14:12:04] <drewinthehead> yes, it does
  199. [14:15:33] <trovster> What should I use for encoded-# ?
  200. [14:16:12] <trovster> why, when I use atom/hatom does it ask me to save a MS-DOS Application?
  201. [14:16:43] <drewinthehead> %23 i think
  202. [14:17:03] <drewinthehead> because you're using Windows by mistake
  203. [14:19:22] <McNulty> trovster - because your IE doesn't know what to do with atom MIME types
  204. [14:19:34] <trovster> IE?
  205. [14:19:44] <trovster> Do you seriously think I'm using IE?
  206. [14:19:45] <McNulty> assuming
  207. [14:19:49] <McNulty> Oh, FF?
  208. [14:20:07] <trovster> Yes, FF
  209. [14:20:09] <McNulty> OK your Firefox doesn't know what to do with Atom MIME types and is handing it off to Windows, which doesn't know either
  210. [14:21:14] <trovster> How can I fix FF then/
  211. [14:22:08] <McNulty> what do you want it to do?
  212. [14:22:20] <trovster> Just show the XML parse tree in FF
  213. [14:22:40] <McNulty> I don't believe it'll do that
  214. [14:22:54] <McNulty> you could probably write an extension...
  215. [14:23:19] <trovster> http://split-s.blogspot.com/2006/04/applicationatomxml-content-type.html :D
  216. [14:24:02] <McNulty> I can't imagine there's much code in that
  217. [14:25:33] * McNulty looks at the source
  218. [14:25:36] <McNulty> hah:
  219. [14:25:37] <McNulty> if (httpChannel.contentType == 'application/atom+xml') {
  220. [14:25:37] <McNulty> httpChannel.contentType = 'text/xml';
  221. [14:25:37] <McNulty> }
  222. [14:26:14] <trovster> Ok, it displays now, but not as the XML parse tree, instead plain text :@
  223. [14:26:20] <McNulty> trovster - thanks for the link.
  224. [14:27:19] <McNulty> FF should have a list of MIME types that it a) displays as plain text, b) displays as XML, c) displays as HTML
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  229. [14:49:02] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
  230. [14:54:40] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) has left #Microformats
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  237. [15:22:28] <qid> McNulty: text/xml is evil.
  238. [15:22:38] <qid> pure unadulterated evil
  239. [15:22:40] <McNulty> qid - whuh?
  240. [15:24:49] <qid> text/xml means the xml prolog gets ignored, and the character encoding defaults to ASCII
  241. [15:25:04] <McNulty> why are you telling me this? ;-)
  242. [15:26:44] <qid> the first thing I saw was the code you pasted
  243. [15:26:47] * cgriego_ (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) has joined #Microformats
  244. [15:27:04] <McNulty> qid - oh
  245. [15:27:20] <McNulty> I see... that was from a firefox extension trovster was interested in
  246. [15:27:37] <McNulty> I agree it's best to serve stuff as an appropriate MIME type
  247. [15:27:49] <qid> well, if firefox is RFC3023-compliant, that extension could break all kinds of stuff
  248. [15:27:56] <McNulty> trovster wanted something to make Firefox display atom content as an XML tree
  249. [15:28:04] * cgriego_ (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) has left #Microformats
  250. [15:28:17] <McNulty> I had a look at the source and thought it was amusing it was so simple
  251. [15:30:36] * McNulty googles that RFC, though.
  252. [15:31:23] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-ja&diff=0&oldid=7919 * Vant * (+112) Encoding issues -
  253. [15:33:36] <McNulty> qid - application/xml is better I presume?
  254. [15:34:17] <qid> it would be, yes
  255. [15:34:25] <McNulty> Maybe I'll email the author
  256. [15:52:30] * ryanlowe_ is now known as ryanlowe
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  258. [15:58:58] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  260. [16:01:50] * [HAM]BlueMaex (i=bluemaex@atlantis.clan-hammer.net) Quit ("Neustart")
  261. [16:06:45] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=7920 * Steve Ganz * (-184) Implementations - Removed Sajid's claim of "100% compliant". Example uses invalid markup.
  262. [16:17:19] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  263. [16:17:19] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  270. [16:31:32] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  274. [16:35:14] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  275. [16:35:31] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  283. [17:44:36] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  284. [17:44:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  292. [18:27:45] * zeroseis (n=zeroseis@201.78.180.72) has joined #microformats
  293. [18:35:17] <zeroseis> Hi, all. I have this page at http://www.azevedosette.com.br/escritorio/localizacao_ with an hCard. When I try to get the vCard using Technorati converter, it returns an error: "Sorry, http://www.azevedosette.com.br/escritorio/localizacao_ could not be transformed into an vCard file because of XML parser error 4: not well-formed (invalid token) and the error code is 2 check that this page validates", but the HTML validates
  294. [18:35:17] <zeroseis> perfectly.
  295. [18:39:06] <zeroseis> When the same hCard is alone in a page, the transformation goes OK: http://www.azevedosette.com.br/hcard.html
  296. [18:39:21] * zeroseis (n=zeroseis@201.78.180.72) has left #microformats
  297. [18:40:22] * zeroseis (n=zeroseis@201.78.180.72) has joined #microformats
  298. [18:41:38] <briansuda> sometimes the error is for other reasons, let me have a look
  299. [18:46:39] <briansuda> OK, this link gives me a vCard (http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/get-vcard.php?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.azevedosette.com.br%2Fescritorio%2Flocalizacao_)
  300. [18:47:13] <briansuda> my guess at why the technorati one doesn't work MIGHT be the '_' at the end, or something else? try encoding it before passing it to technorati
  301. [18:47:35] <kingryan> its possible that our tidy implementation is messing things up
  302. [18:47:41] * kingryan curses tidy
  303. [18:48:15] <zeroseis> I'll try without the underscore and see what happens.
  304. [18:48:35] <zeroseis> Changing the name of the file.
  305. [18:53:25] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  306. [18:53:41] * ChanServ sets mode +o KevinMarks
  307. [18:55:08] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  308. [18:55:08] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit
  309. [18:58:08] <zeroseis> Changing the name of the file didn't work. I'll use the link to X2V at suda.co.uk for this hCard. No problem. Thanks for your help!
  310. [18:59:43] <kingryan> I'll take a look at our proxy to try and track down this bug
  311. [19:00:52] <zeroseis> OK. If you need to test, the new file is http://www.azevedosette.com.br/escritorio/localizacao2
  312. [19:20:06] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  313. [19:20:07] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  314. [19:53:24] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
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  321. [20:40:04] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=7921 * Tantek * (+904) added tasks for reorganizing examples in the wild sections / pages
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  327. [21:16:46] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=7922 * Tantek * (+259) add task to create a summary examples-in-the-wild page
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  332. [21:42:24] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  333. [21:47:35] * daavid (n=daavid@wkac.ac.uk) has joined #microformats
  334. [21:47:55] <daavid> how is microformats related to RDF and the sematicweb?
  335. [21:48:13] <daavid> it doesn't seem to use any of the ontology subject-predicate-noun stuff
  336. [21:49:02] <bewest> daavid: not Semantic Web
  337. [21:49:05] <bewest> the semantic web
  338. [21:49:29] <bewest> microformats adds semantic value to existing and widely deployed markup ([x]html)
  339. [21:49:49] <bewest> this makes such data consumable by user agents that understand these semantics (very easy to code)
  340. [21:50:20] <bewest> while keeping the fidelity in terms of convention, authorship, and human consumption
  341. [21:50:55] <bewest> in addition it is easily transformed into formats agents of the Semantic Web understand
  342. [21:51:16] <daavid> and RDF does the same and more but is more complicated and not backwards compatible?
  343. [21:51:33] <kingryan> yes, daavid
  344. [21:51:33] <bewest> hmmm only very roughly the same
  345. [21:51:42] <kingryan> if anything, RDF tries to do too much
  346. [21:51:44] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@67-40-166-22.mpls.qwest.net) Quit ()
  347. [21:51:50] <bewest> the scope of microformats is very different from the scope of RDF
  348. [21:51:51] <kingryan> and, in the process, does very little :D
  349. [21:51:57] <bewest> so comparing them isn't quite fair
  350. [21:52:11] <bewest> but if you were to compare them, that is the correct evaluation :-)
  351. [21:52:43] <daavid> so what's the relationship between the w3c and Tim Berners-Lee and microformats? none?
  352. [21:52:59] <bewest> w3c and TBL invented html
  353. [21:53:04] <kingryan> there are a number of w3c members and employees involved here
  354. [21:53:11] <bewest> :-)
  355. [21:53:25] <kingryan> tbl came to my talk on microformats at www2006 (but left before I could even get started!)
  356. [21:53:37] <bewest> kingryan: ah yeah, you mentioned that
  357. [21:53:46] <KevinMarks> tantek channels tbl in his blogposts
  358. [21:53:49] <KevinMarks> ;)
  359. [21:54:03] <kingryan> I was kinda glad he left, bewest
  360. [21:54:05] <bewest> I do wonder what TBL thinks of all this
  361. [21:54:09] <kingryan> he was unnerving me, sitting in the first row
  362. [21:54:18] <bewest> yeah, you mentioned that too... because a large part was a "history of html"?
  363. [21:54:19] <kingryan> bewest, ask tantek
  364. [21:54:27] <kingryan> well, the first part was
  365. [21:54:41] <kingryan> and I gave out the url to the slides before I got started, so tbl got ahead of me before he left
  366. [21:54:48] <bewest> tantek: do you happen to know what TBL thinks of microformats?
  367. [21:54:59] <kingryan> lol: http://flickr.com/photos/amyvdh/107646215/
  368. [21:55:01] <bewest> that's not a good question...
  369. [21:55:58] <kingryan> timbl was smiling after tantek talked to him about it: http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/117040672/
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  371. [21:57:05] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@67-40-166-22.mpls.qwest.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  372. [21:58:19] <bewest> it'd be funny if you were giving a "history of html" presentation and someone like TBL raised his hand and started correcting you ... "ehm... that's not quite right..."
  373. [21:59:48] <tantek> bewest, you can see the "history of semantic xhtml" that i gave at the W3C Technical Plenary with TBL and others in attendance here: http://tantek.com/presentations/2006/03/what-are-microformats/
  374. [22:02:02] <KevinMarks> did he heckle?
  375. [22:04:34] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  376. [22:05:35] <bewest> yeah I've seen that presentation
  377. [22:06:05] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  378. [22:06:05] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  379. [22:06:19] <bewest> ok that was fun :-) back to work
  380. [22:09:40] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.31-221.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
  381. [22:09:40] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  382. [22:14:17] <daavid> is there a microformat for store opening hours?
  383. [22:14:24] <daavid> if not there should be
  384. [22:14:57] <kingryan> daavid: you could use hcalendar
  385. [22:14:57] <daavid> that's something i'd love to be able to find quickly by google instead of having to search through some companies cluttered website
  386. [22:15:38] <tantek> it's a good question daavid
  387. [22:15:46] <tantek> it is something that i want to see too
  388. [22:16:00] <tantek> there is no obvious way to do it right now, though several techniques have been brainstormed
  389. [22:16:12] <tantek> part of the challenge is that store hours require good repeating events support
  390. [22:16:15] <bewest> hcalendar won't work?
  391. [22:16:22] <bewest> oh
  392. [22:16:22] <tantek> which is one of the weaker parts of iCalendar
  393. [22:16:47] <tantek> bewest, hCalenar still needs more details for repeating events in order for web authors to be able to easily create/publish repeating events
  394. [22:16:52] <daavid> cool hope you come up with something
  395. [22:17:09] <tantek> right now it is *possible*, but requires reading the respective portions of RFC2445 which is a very high barrier
  396. [22:17:29] <tantek> daavid - indeed, feel free to add such requests to the "LazyWeb" section of the to-do page:
  397. [22:17:32] <daavid> just using hcalender won't make it obvious to e.g a search engine that it's a stores opening hours and not some other event
  398. [22:17:33] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do
  399. [22:18:05] <tantek> daavid that's right. you need to capture the "store is open" semantic also
  400. [22:18:17] <daavid> a listing of stores market with hperson for contact details (can hperson to organizations that are not persons) geo for position and some other format for opening hours
  401. [22:18:22] <daavid> now that would be sweet
  402. [22:18:25] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-073-002.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  403. [22:18:33] <bewest> daavid: agreed :-)
  404. [22:18:43] <bewest> daavid: and then of course, some user interface that lets you interact with it
  405. [22:18:52] <tantek> yes, hCard can be used for organizations that are not persons
  406. [22:18:59] <bewest> "show me all the stores in this area that are open"
  407. [22:19:13] <tantek> and that are tagged also
  408. [22:19:26] <tantek> show me all the places that server dinner that are open
  409. [22:19:29] <tantek> in this area
  410. [22:19:36] <bewest> on a map
  411. [22:19:41] <bewest> *ahem*
  412. [22:19:46] <factoryjoe> see http://austin.adactio.com
  413. [22:19:48] <tantek> of course
  414. [22:19:52] * tantek notes that often restaurants have slightly different "serving" vs. "open" hours.
  415. [22:19:55] <bewest> factoryjoe: I've seen that many times
  416. [22:19:58] <factoryjoe> ;)
  417. [22:20:09] <bewest> factoryjoe: I'm working on something that will do that for arbitrary resources
  418. [22:20:24] <bewest> factoryjoe: nearwhere.com is a closed garden version of that
  419. [22:20:36] <bewest> factoryjoe: it has a database of hcards which get put on a map
  420. [22:20:50] <factoryjoe> nice
  421. [22:20:54] <bewest> factoryjoe: I want to lose the database and pipe hcards to the interface instead of feeding it from a database
  422. [22:20:58] <factoryjoe> we really need frappr for hcard
  423. [22:21:03] <factoryjoe> yup
  424. [22:21:08] <factoryjoe> bewest++
  425. [22:21:09] <factoryjoe> that's the idea
  426. [22:21:16] <factoryjoe> html is the new zip file
  427. [22:21:32] <bewest> factoryjoe: afaik, once that's done, that combined with DanC's stuff and simile's timeline would basically be your mapendar application
  428. [22:21:40] <factoryjoe> actually, it's kind of zip + structure + human readable
  429. [22:21:49] <factoryjoe> 30boxes.com/map
  430. [22:21:55] <factoryjoe> they built a poor man's version
  431. [22:22:05] <factoryjoe> simile's timeline?
  432. [22:22:08] <factoryjoe> DanC's stuff?
  433. [22:22:09] <factoryjoe> links?
  434. [22:22:11] <bewest> actually DanC is much closer to putting this all together than I am
  435. [22:22:13] <bewest> uh
  436. [22:22:22] <bewest> http://simile.mit.edu/timeline
  437. [22:22:30] <bewest> and his thing is called
  438. [22:22:31] <bewest> uh
  439. [22:22:32] <bewest> tabulator
  440. [22:22:44] <bewest> which is basically timeline + map
  441. [22:22:44] <factoryjoe> DanCederholm?
  442. [22:22:49] <bewest> connolly
  443. [22:23:02] <bewest> huh?
  444. [22:23:09] <bewest> I thought DanC == connolly
  445. [22:23:18] <kingryan> bewest is right
  446. [22:23:28] <bewest> *phew*
  447. [22:23:34] <daavid> hmm i can't register a new user on the microformats wiki
  448. [22:23:43] <bewest> daavid: FirstnameLastname
  449. [22:23:44] <factoryjoe> ah ha
  450. [22:23:44] <daavid> it keeps saying "invalid username"
  451. [22:23:46] <bewest> daavid: WikiWord
  452. [22:23:54] <daavid> aha thanks
  453. [22:24:02] <factoryjoe> bewest: where are you based again?
  454. [22:24:10] <DanC> it's not really my stuff. but the tabulator is at http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2005/ajar/ajaw/tab.html (see also recent blog item by timbl http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/153 )
  455. [22:24:13] <bewest> San Francisco
  456. [22:24:23] <bewest> oh that's timbl?
  457. [22:24:24] <bewest> ah
  458. [22:24:35] <factoryjoe> ah ok thought so
  459. [22:24:39] <factoryjoe> just dbl checking
  460. [22:24:42] <factoryjoe> i'm going to boston this weekend
  461. [22:24:48] <DanC> timbl and a bunch of students. I help with testing and bug tracking a little.
  462. [22:24:48] <factoryjoe> so was wondering if anyone's around to meet up
  463. [22:24:55] <factoryjoe> already planning to meet w/ the *other* DanC
  464. [22:25:09] <bewest> ah now I remember I didn't get it
  465. [22:25:13] <DanC> there can be only one! (on freenode, anyway ;-)
  466. [22:25:13] <kingryan> factoryjoe: there's only one DanC
  467. [22:25:28] <bewest> the idea is neat, but I don't understand the interface /at all/
  468. [22:26:18] <bewest> DanC: silly question: I observed a reference to ~connolly in some python docs. would that be a reference to you?
  469. [22:26:38] * Zeeshan_M is now known as TBF
  470. [22:26:40] <DanC> yes. I've been involved in HTML/HTTP/URI specs since 1991 or os
  471. [22:26:41] <DanC> so
  472. [22:26:49] * TBF is now known as Zeeshan_M
  473. [22:27:00] <daavid> some other good ones would be movie starting times on cinemas, program staring times on TV, play starting times at theatres etc.
  474. [22:27:19] <bewest> the HTML/URI specs of python?
  475. [22:27:31] <Zeeshan_M> Good evening, how does one markup international phone numbers and local ones?
  476. [22:27:31] <daavid> i guess all these could be based on hcalender but you want some machine readable flag specifing that it's a "movie", "TV program", "play" etc
  477. [22:27:37] <kingryan> daavid: there's already a site with hcalendar for tv show starting times
  478. [22:27:45] <daavid> link?
  479. [22:27:48] <factoryjoe> kingryan: I disagree, owing that DanCederholm did the mF logo/icon
  480. [22:28:02] <kingryan> Zeeshan_M: what distinction is there?
  481. [22:28:08] <Zeeshan_M> I wish to markup 'UK: 0870 4999 000 - International: +44 161 444 0638'
  482. [22:28:34] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=7923 * DavidB * (+226) Lazyweb -
  483. [22:28:43] <kingryan> factoryjoe: google agrees with me: http://www.google.com/search?q=DanC
  484. [22:28:59] <kingryan> just markup the one with the country code
  485. [22:29:19] <kingryan> .... Zeeshan_M
  486. [22:29:20] <Zeeshan_M> kingryan, I am not sure what clarification you're asking about.
  487. [22:29:21] <tantek> Dan Cederholm doesn't go by DanC AFAIK.
  488. [22:29:27] <tantek> he goes by simplebits
  489. [22:29:34] <DanC> guido (and others) participated in www-talk when he worked on urlparse.py and such. The community was small back then.
  490. [22:29:39] <Zeeshan_M> I see, what hCard classes would the international one get?
  491. [22:29:54] <tantek> Zeeshan_M, use the hCard creator and find out!
  492. [22:29:59] <Zeeshan_M> Ooo!
  493. [22:30:04] <bewest> ah I see
  494. [22:30:05] <tantek> http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator
  495. [22:30:10] <Zeeshan_M> Thank you
  496. [22:31:02] <Zeeshan_M> Mmm, nothing additional
  497. [22:31:20] <factoryjoe> alright
  498. [22:31:24] <factoryjoe> fine, simplebits it is
  499. [22:31:42] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  500. [22:33:29] * daavid (n=daavid@wkac.ac.uk) Quit ()
  501. [22:34:31] <Zeeshan_M> :(
  502. [22:34:45] <Zeeshan_M> Shame that 'intl' isn't a value for tel
  503. [22:35:03] <Zeeshan_M> I was doing: <dd class="tel"><span class="type">work</span> <span class="value">0870 4999 000</span><br></dd>
  504. [22:35:06] <tantek> Zeeshan_M, all phone numbers are intl
  505. [22:35:06] <kingryan> Zeeshan_M: that would violate the DRY principle, no?
  506. [22:35:18] <Zeeshan_M> And hoping for a marking for the +044 one
  507. [22:35:22] <tantek> just put +Country code in front
  508. [22:35:22] <Zeeshan_M> marker
  509. [22:35:26] <Zeeshan_M> *nod*
  510. [22:35:29] <tantek> don't bother
  511. [22:35:36] <KevinMarks> shouldn't it be +44 870 4999 000
  512. [22:35:37] <tantek> just always use the "absolute" intl phone number
  513. [22:35:55] * tantek enters +1.area code numbers into his cell phone
  514. [22:36:16] * daavid (n=daavid@wkac.ac.uk) has joined #microformats
  515. [22:36:26] <bewest> tantek: me too, but this not quite the same
  516. [22:36:28] <Zeeshan_M> kingryan, it would yes:>
  517. [22:36:47] <bewest> maybe it doesn't matter, but different numbers can have different routing, which can mean different billing
  518. [22:37:15] <tantek> bewest, if you find concrete examples of that on the web, add to hcard-brainstorming
  519. [22:41:42] <Zeeshan_M> Ok, thank you guys for your hints, have a good evening/day.
  520. [22:41:48] * Zeeshan_M is now known as Zeeshan_AFK
  521. [22:42:20] * daavid (n=daavid@wkac.ac.uk) Quit ()
  522. [22:43:45] <bewest> meh... a quick search suggests that most of the time phone numbers are always represented locally to the consuming audience
  523. [22:44:36] <bewest> I'm browsing citigroup/citibank's website
  524. [22:44:51] <bewest> they probably have thousands of offices
  525. [22:45:04] <bewest> I see only one case where two numbers are listed for an office
  526. [22:46:03] <bewest> http://www.citigroup.com/citigroup/contact/index.htm
  527. [22:46:10] * bewest wonders who the webmaster there is
  528. [22:49:23] <kingryan> webmaster@citigroup.com ?
  529. [22:56:14] * cori[s]|xchat (n=cori[s]@pdpc/supporter/active/CoriS) has joined #microformats
  530. [23:19:54] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC93307F.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  531. [23:19:54] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  532. [23:19:55] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  533. [23:34:45] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-073-002.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  534. [23:47:06] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  535. [23:47:06] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.

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